[heroic music] [heroic music continues] [heroic music continues] [heroic music continues] - Hello, and welcome to "Comic Culture."

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

My guest today is cartoonist Patrick McDonnell.

Patrick, welcome to "Comic Culture".

- Hi, Terence, how are you?

- I'm doing great.

Patrick, you are the cartoonist behind one of my favorite strips, "MUTTS," and we were talking a little bit before we started recording.

You are celebrating 30 years of this strip.

So what's the journey been like going from the new strip that's gotta break into all of the newspapers to one of the old guard?

- The journey's been fantastic to tell you the truth.

I mean, it was a dream of mine since I was five years old.

I grew up reading "Peanuts" and was just in love with Charles Schulz's strip.

And it's been an amazing journey to finally do something I've always wanted to do, and I'm blessed.

I get to sit in my room and draw funny pictures for a living.

And you know, actually one of the nicest things about becoming a cartoonist is I got to meet my hero, Charles Shulz, and become friends.

And actually, the strip's made me meet a lot of interesting people.

I did a children's book with Jane Goodall and got to meet Jane and a bunch of cartoonists that I admire.

So yeah, it's been a fun journey for sure.

- Now you mentioned Charles Schulz, who, I mean, for so many of us, he was the cartoonist.

I mean, I cannot recall a time when I wasn't excited to open up the Sunday paper and look at, you know, the big Sunday strip.

How do you sort of take all of your inspirations and turn them into a lovable dog and a lovable cat?

[Patrick laughs] - We all stand on their shoulders, you know, the greats.

I mean, Charles Schulz was a big influence for me.

"Krazy Kat" was another major influence.

And you know, I'd never, even as a kid, I never tried to really draw Charlie Brown.

I always wanted to come up with my own characters and tell my own little story.

So I think you learn from your heroes, but you try to find your own voice.

And for me, you know, I loved Snoopy as a kid and always wanted a dog.

I didn't get a dog until pretty later in life.

And my dog, Earl, my Jack Russell terrier, was the inspiration for the strip.

- It's fascinating how your pet became the inspiration for Earl.

And what about Mooch, the cat who's got that little bit of a lisp and the little pink shock?

- [laughs] Yeah, you know, it's funny, when I started this trip, it really was kind of autobiographical.

Ozzie was kind of me, the man who owns Earl, and Earl was my own dog.

And in my sketchbook I said, "Oh, it might be fun if there was a little cat next door."

And I thought that might be good for like maybe two weeks' worth of jokes.

But just the way cats are, they come into your life and take over.

So, Mooch, yeah, I ended up thinking I was doing a dog strip, and it soon became a dog and cat strip.

And with Mooch's personality, it soon became a cat and dog [laughs] strip.

- And you know, it's funny.

You talk about the shoulders of giants that you stand on, and the one thing about your art style is that it is reminiscent of like a "Krazy Kat" or those early newspaper strips.

So were you a scholar of the newspaper strip that helped inspire or influenced the way that you chose to draw?

Or was it just, again, this organic thing that's just that pastiche of everything that's come before you coming through you?

- Yeah, I think it was mostly organic, but, I mean, obviously you're influenced by the things you look at.

And what always appealed to me with the earlier strips, there was just like a real looseness to 'em and a little scratchy, very sketchy-looking, and that just appeals to me.

I mean, somewhere in the '60s and the '70s, comic strips got very mechanical-looking.

And I mean, it's a fine look.

I mean, people love it, and I think it's fine, but it just doesn't appeal to me as much as the more loosey, sketchy drawings.

So "Krazy Kat," Segar's "Popeye," those strips really appeal to me.

And in particular, I was just always amazed.

I mean, my first memory was looking at... One of my first memories as a kid was looking at my mom's "Pogo" collections and Jules Feiffer's work, and I was, even as a little kid, I was just amazed how alive those little drawings looked on the page, that the characters really seemed to be alive.

So that's always been the magic of cartooning for me.

And more important to me than how well you draw is how alive do the characters feel on the page, and it has nothing to do with anatomy or drawing correctly.

It just has to do with some energy you can put on the page, and it comes out there on the page.

So my favorite cartoonist all have that where the characters just seem to be living on the page.

- When I look at the drawings that you have, and I'm thinking of a strip a few weeks back where Mooch is taking a bird south.

He's walking him south, and there's just a sweetness to it, but there is that sort of frenetic looseness to your line work.

Are you pen and ink?

Are you brush and ink, or have you gone digital?

- No, [laughs] I'm a Luddite.

I'm not digital at all.

I still dip a pen into a bottle of ink, yeah.

And actually, I use a fountain pen, but I don't use it as a fountain pen.

I dip it into a bottle of ink.

And boy, there's nothing like the feeling of the ink on the page.

And, you know, it's a liquid medium, so you really feel the flow of things when you do it that way.

- And are you the type of creator...

I know that John Rose from "Snuffy Smith" might write down in a notebook an idea for a gag, and then a few weeks later he might sit down and refine it and then start drawing it.

Are you someone who is going to have an idea for a gag and maybe write it out?

Or are you somebody who's looking at that page and saying, "Oh, this is what's revealing itself to me"?

- You know, it's changed over the years.

When you do something for 30 years, you know, your work habits change, at least mine do.

Nowadays, if the weather's nice, I sit in a park near my house with a notebook, and I try to sit there until I have at least two weeks' worth of "MUTT" strips.

You know, when you do it, it has a lot to do with faith.

You just stay open to the universe and hope ideas come.

Somehow they come.

You know, you get into a zone.

It's a lot like, I think, athletes, who, you know, get in the zone and just do what they have to do.

So for me, I try to get in that zone.

And you know, it's a cliche, but the characters write themselves sometimes.

You know, if I think of a topic and then have Mooch, you know, like, you know, say anything, you know, mooch with a football, then you just start thinking, "What would mooch do with a football?

The ideas start coming to you.

- And another thing that really sums up these characters is their body language.

I'm thinking of Mooch and his little bent tail.

Is this something that just organically came about, or were you thinking, "Well, you know, it'd be nice to put this little element in there"?

And sort of how do those little physical, I guess the acting bits, influence the words that you might put to it?

- That's a great question.

Doing a comic strip I think is a lot like a play, you know, the theater.

You know, you have your dialogue, but then you have your actors, and my characters are my actors.

You know, it's their expressions and their body language that are gonna help sell your gag, you know, just the way an actor helps the playwright tell the story.

And I think that's so important.

So you know, a bent tail or the way an ear might go up, you know, all those little body languages, they really help tell the character's mood and what the dialogue is.

I just wrote an introduction for "Peanuts" in its 75th anniversary.

A book's gonna come out next year for Charles Schulz's 75th anniversary of "Peanuts."

And in that introduction, I talk a lot about Schulz was the greatest at it.

Go really study "Peanut" strips and see how the hand movements of the characters and the facial expressions and just the body language of the "Peanuts" characters are amazing.

And again, it goes back to what I said, how it's magic that you could, you know, with a few dots and a couple of squiggle lines that you could convey so much emotion.

But that's important.

When I do the strip, their body language and how they tell this story is like the most important thing when you're drawing.

- And you know, you talk about the magic, and I've spoken to artists before who talk about how sometimes if they really try and solve a problem on the page, they snuff the life out of it.

So they find a lot of times if they do something rough and then sort of finish it off in ink, it's got that energy, that life that they're looking for.

Is it something where you're kind of maybe roughly putting something in in pencil, or are you just starting with ink?

How do you sort of work this all out so that you're able to have that life that the characters need on your page?

- Yeah, you know, I'm a big believer in those sketches.

I love looking at artists' sketchbook because they're so immediate, and, you know, that's where all the energy is.

So with "MUTTS," you know, I lightly pencil, 'cause, you know, you're working in a certain size, so things have to fit, and the dialogue has to fit.

So you gotta kinda rough-out the page, but then when you ink it, you get to have the fun.

And there's quite a few "MUTTS" that I went straight to ink, and just, they're about as sketchy as possible.

[laughs] But if you look, every once in a while you can notice there's a "MUTTS" that didn't have any pencil sketching at all.

- Are those happy little accidents, when they happen, is it something where, you know, let's say something isn't quite turning out.

Do you just kind of keep going until you feel that it's working out?

Or do you maybe say, "I'm gonna just start again because maybe I should have planned this a little bit better"?

Or is it something where you just, you believe in the process, you believe in what you're able to do?

- The way I work, I could do little paste-ups.

I could redraw the character and paste them in.

I tell you, Jules Feiffer, another hero of mine, you know, when I saw his originals, you know, I didn't even...

I was young at the time, but I wasn't even aware that you could do that.

But he, you know, obviously does little quick sketches and then takes the good ones and pastes them on there.

So a lot of his originals have paste-ups on 'em, and that definitely freed me up to think that, "Oh, I'm allowed to make mistakes and paste up over 'em."

- And, you know, that's something that digital artists don't really have to worry about.

I mean, they've gotta worry about the endless undoes, but I too recall being in high school when I'd be, you know, working on a comic when I should have been studying math.

Sorry, Mr. Kramer.

But one of the things that I would do is I'm gonna cut a new figure out and just glue it up and over there.

So again, you're doing this old-school method.

I'm assuming the delivery to the syndicate is going to be modern.

So are you scanning the strips yourself, or do you have an assistant?

How do you sort of get them over to the newspaper?

- Yeah, no, I'm not... You know, in this day and age, no, I have an assistant who scans them.

And I give color notes, but then we color them, you know, on the computer also but based on notes I give.

- And that was actually gonna be my next topic.

I mean, color is something that, growing up, was never in the daily strips until maybe close to 30 years ago or so.

Has "MUTTS" always been a seven-day-a-week color strip, or was it black and white and color on the weekends or Sundays?

And then the other question is, when you are creating, do you prefer the black and white, or do you prefer the full color?

- "MUTTS" is seven days, six days dailies and the Sunday, and the Sunday's always in color.

And I've always done the color for the Sundays, and I love doing that.

The dailies are colored by some newspapers, but I don't do 'em.

The syndicate does 'em.

I don't have enough time to color all the dailies, which is a shame.

And I keep my fingers crossed that they color 'em well.

But I do prefer... You know, it's pen and ink.

I'm an old school.

I prefer the dailies being in black and white.

You know, it's a pen-and-ink medium, and I think that's where you really see the beauty of the drawing.

But then the treat is on Sunday.

You know, you can see the color, and color's really important to me.

Being a fan of the older strips, when you look at how "Little Nemo" and "Krazy Kat," those early strips were colored, it was so beautiful, so I'm trying my best.

You know, it's funny.

We get more scientific, and we progress, but sometimes it's not as good as the old ways.

I mean, I can't even get the colors that "Little Nemo" comics have if you look at "Little Nemo" comics, but I try my best to try to capture some of those tricks.

- It's true.

I mean, we think of modern technology being superior.

I mean, certainly for cars, you'd want a modern car.

You wouldn't want a Model T. But when you look at some of those classic newspaper strips, the reproduction is just so- - Unbelievable, [laughs] yeah.

They're like prints.

They're like Japanese prints, you know, the reds they got, just the beauty of those, the fades they could do.

You know, I try my best to come close, but technically, you can't do it.

- And I don't know how much of that is economies with newspapers and, you know, diminishing returns on the strips and whatnot.

But, gosh, I mean, some of those strips are, they just are mind-blowing.

Now, the one thing we talked about a little bit before the show started was that you can get...

Pretty much every comic strip, every famous comic strip, has been, there're omnibi of the strips, whether it's, you know, a year of "Peanuts" or whether it's...

I was talking about "Steve Canyon" earlier.

And I understand that you have a collection coming out soon, unless I'm mistaken, about a story you did last year featuring Guard Dog.

- Yeah, no, actually the book is out.

It's called "Breaking the Chain: The Guard Dog Story."

Here, I'll give a little plug.

[laughs] So that was the story that appeared last year.

I'm a big fan of the old continuity strips like "Dick Tracy" and "Steve Canyon."

And you know, I had a character in "MUTTS."

Actually, he appeared about a year into the strip.

And what I was trying to do then was I thought it would be fun to introduce a villain into the strip, I thought like a little bully that Earl and Mooch would have to deal with.

So I started using the comic cliches and thought of a big nasty dog, you know, with sharp teeth and a big body.

And I put a spiked collar on him to look tough.

And then in my sketchbook, I drew a chain around that collar and chained him to the ground to look like a tough dog.

Ant then when I looked at him with the chain, I realized this isn't a tough dog.

This is a tragic character.

You know, this isn't a villain.

This is a tragedy.

So I put him in the strip anyway, you know, to help raise awareness about tethered dogs.

And he became a very sympathetic character.

The readers really liked him, but they also asked me for many years to free him.

But, you know, with "MUTTS," I got to become friendly with a lot of animal-protection groups, and they all told me, "No, keep him on the chain.

He's got a mission to raise awareness about that."

So I kept him on the chain for way too many years.

And then last year, I finally did a seven-week story about his freedom with the little girl who adopts him, Doozy.

And we put it together in the book, and I recolored.

I colored him myself.

And there's also a 30-page introduction with the history of Guard Dog.

And then there's also one of my favorite parts in the back of the book.

There's actual photographs and true stories from readers of chained dogs that they rescued.

So there's some real stories about chained dogs in the back of the book, and also in the back of the book, there's ways you could help if in your state they still have tethered dogs.

Half the states in America have made it illegal, but there's still a lot of states left that, you know, have some work to do.

- I remember this strip, and my sister Jessica and I would send each other text messages, "Have you read MUTTS?"

And we were really choked up about the storyline as it went on.

And it's tough to talk about it without getting a little, you know, emotional because it is such a powerful strip.

So as you are planning seven weeks of this story, how many thoughts are you putting to the logistics?

I mean, are you planning it like D-Day, or are you keeping it sort of that loose jazz style where you have an idea of where you wanna go, but you're gonna let the beats sort of dictate themselves?

- For that, I did have to work it out.

You know, I think it was too important, and I wanted it to be... You know, people waited a long time, so I wanted it to be worth the wait, that this strip had some weight to it.

And so I did work out the whole story before I drew it.

And I was a little concerned about... You know, I mean, it's a tough story, I mean, but it's really tough for real dogs that have to deal with that.

But you know, the stories that Guard Dog's owner moves and just leaves him chained in the backyard, that sounds crazy, but it literally happens a lot.

So, you know, part of the story was him in his backyard, you know, wondering what's gonna happen to him and, you know, suffering.

And I did think I said, "Well, you know, I hope this isn't too tough," but I figured, you know, dogs have to, real dogs have to deal with that, so that's gonna be the story.

And you know, what was really interesting for me, you know, being a fan of comic strips for so long, it's such an interesting in this day-and-age way to tell a story because, you know, everyone nowadays just has very short attention spans and want everything immediately.

But when you tell a story in a daily comic strip, people have to wait 24 hours for three more panels and then another 24 hours for three more panels.

So, you know, even though, you know, in real time, Guard Door was in that backyard for like two weeks, you know, for the people reading it.

So I think it really got the readers emotionally involved, and people on our website and Instagram and Facebook were really, you know, following it and hoping that everything was gonna be okay.

So it was an interesting way to tell a story 'cause I think people really got involved with it.

- As you're working on a story that is that heavy, you said it was a balancing act.

So how do you sort of find the lighter moments that you can put in so that you have the impact that you want but not so that it becomes so overwhelming?

And you did sort of, you know, thread that needle quite brilliantly.

But, you know, how do you sort of think about how you're going to maybe give us a chance to catch our breath once you hit us with something that's really powerful?

- Well, you knew that at some point after he was in his backyard, Earl and Mooch show up, and even though they didn't have the power to save him, I think just them being there and talking to him kind of helped the readers know that there's some hope that things are gonna come okay.

And, you know, even, I mean, with the three panels, I wouldn't say they were jokes, but they were, you know, really strong themes that I think helped move the story along.

And you know who was a genius at it, and if your listeners haven't read Segar's "Popeye," but the original "Popeye" strip by Segar still holds up today.

And he did long stories, but every day was still a joke, and that's a really tough act to do.

So he was an inspiration for this to try to find, you know, the balance of telling that story but not being too tough on the reader.

- And you mentioned that you would get feedback from fans every day on social media.

So as a creator, how does this inform what you are doing and at least tell you maybe you're going in the right direction?

but obviously you're working well in advance, and the story is told regardless of whether or not we are happy with it.

So as a creator who is giving something to us, how do you sort of shield yourself from something that could be negative because they just don't get it yet?

- Yeah, no, you know, these are like eight weeks in advance, so there's nothing I can do if the readers are upset.

And you know, actually that was one of the things.

When it started running, I started thinking of like, I knew how long he was gonna be in the backyard alone.

So, you know, I was a little concerned that maybe I went a little too long with that, especially with the readers.

You know, it was funny.

I mean, are you familiar with the strip "For Better or Worse"?

- [Terence] Yes, - Because when I did it, I thought, you know, the people who read much would know that I love Guard Dog, and I wouldn't do anything, you know, horrible to Him.

You know, because "For Better or Worse" is a strip that's done in real time, the characters age.

So at one point, the family dog actually passes away, and the dog's name was Farley.

So a lot of people were writing in, saying, "Don't Farley him, don't Farley him."

So I think because it happened in a comic strip once that some readers really thought I might do that, but it was never a thought in my brain.

You know, I wanted him to finally have a loving home and have Doozy become, you know, is the dog for Doozy.

- You know, it's funny.

To this day I'm still upset with April for falling into that river.

Lynn Johnston, just brilliant.

And that's, again, one of those strips that I don't think gets as much credit for being as brilliant as it is.

Now, you know, it's one of those things that these strips become touchstones for readers, for families.

I mean, in my family, we still talk about that episode, that episode, that strip of "Calvin and Hobbes," or we talk about Farley, and we talk about, you know, again, Guard Dog.

So, you know, as you are hearing back from fans, are you hearing people who might say something along the lines that, "You know, my family and I still talk about... We've got this one on our fridge.

Oh, there's, you know, my son's got a tattoo."

- That's why comic strips are such a special medium.

You know, the characters do become friends and family.

I mean, that's how I feel about my favorite strips.

I mean, "Peanuts," I mean, you lived with Snoopy.

I mean, Snoopy was my first dog.

I waited years to get a dog, but I felt like I had Snoopy, and you know, that makes it a really special meeting.

You know, people usually read 'em first thing in the morning, and it goes on for years, I mean, 30 years for months.

And because of that, I feel like I can tell important animal issue stories like a tethered dog in the backyard because, you know, it's more like a family around the breakfast table conversation.

People are more open to listen to it because it's coming from friends and family.

So I think it's a very special medium.

I don't know if too many mediums can do that, where you feel like you lived with them so long that they're part of you.

- One of the things that "MUTTS" has done throughout its entire run, as far as I know, is you have had shelter stories, and every few months you'll have like, Chicken Pea will come up and tell you their story and sort of encourage people to adopt.

So you mentioned that you have a lot of animal rights groups that come in contact with you.

Are they reaching out with stories that they can, you know, tell you that you can put into a strip that may help an animal down the road?

- You know, I was on the board of the Humane Society for many years, and I've heard so many tough stories, and a lot of those, you know, I've put into the strip.

And, you know, again, I've got to get to be friends with Jane Goodall, and, you know, I've done strips about her and the work she does.

And, you know, it started out with the shelter stories.

I thought Earl and Mooch had loving homes, but I thought of all the dogs and cats and shelters wanting that.

So I started that.

Two weeks every year, I started the shelter stories, and then I expanded it.

Everybody loves their dogs and cats, but I wanted that compassionate empathy to be felt for all animals.

I've done animals in Africa, and I've done factory farm animals.

Just trying to, you know, spread a little compassion and empathy with "MUTTS," I feel like that's the reason I'm here.

- Well, Patrick, they are telling us that we are just about out of time.

If the folks watching at home wanted to find out more about you and your work, is there a place on the web they can go to?

- Yeah, mutts.com.

You can learn everything there and yeah, the new book, "Breaking the Chain."

And also I do superhero paintings, and I'm having a show in Princeton, New Jersey.

So if you look at the Art Council of Princeton starting in November, there's a gallery of my big superhero paintings, and then there's a downstairs gallery that will have prints of the Guard Dog story.

So if you're in Princeton, New Jersey in November, stop by.

- Well, Patrick, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to talk with me today.

It's been a great half hour.

- Oh, thank you.

It's been fun.

I can't believe it went by so fast.

- [laughs] I'd like to thank everyone at home for watching "Comic Culture".

We will see you again soon.

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