REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE<\p> MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT<\p> FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE<\p> MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT<\p> FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE<\p> MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT<\p> FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE<\p> MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT<\p> FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE<\p> MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT<\p> FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE<\p> MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT<\p> FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT<\p> FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> TODAY, PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> FOR THE INVITATION.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE THE<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA, WHICH IS<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THE INSTITUTE OF AMERICAN INDIAN<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> ARTS MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> NATIVE ARTS AND YOU HAVE JUST<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> GOTTEN A WONDERFUL HONOR.

DO<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT IT?<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: YES, WE WERE NAMED<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THE THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM IN<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THE COUNTRY BY USA TODAY<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> TEN BEST MUSEUMS.

APPARENTLY,<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> AND THE COMMITTEE SELECTS<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> TWENTY MUSEUMS IN THE COUNTRY<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> AND THEN THEY HAVE THE TOP<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> TEN THAT THEY GIVE AWARDS TO.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, WERE<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> YOU SURPRISED?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I WAS SURPRISED<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> EXCEPT IT'S A VOTING PROCESS<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> SO I WAS AWARE OF IT, WE<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> WERE ASKING OUR CONSTITUENTS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THAT WASN'T<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THE ONLY AWARD YOU GOT<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> BECAUSE THE FORD FOUNDATION<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> ALSO NAMED YOU AS ONE OF<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> AMERICA'S CULTURAL TREASURES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO I WANT TO<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> CELEBRATE THAT BUT I ALSO WANT<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS THAT<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THIS THIRD BEST ART MUSEUM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> IN THE COUNTRY IS RIGHT<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> HERE IN SANTA FE, DOWNTOWN,<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> BEAUTIFULLY SITED OPPOSITE<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THE CATHEDRAL, THE FRONT DOORS<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> OF THE CATHEDRAL.

MAYBE YOU<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> COULD SHOW US A PICTURE SO IF<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> PEOPLE ARE WANDERING AROUND<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> LOOKING FOR IT, SHOW<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> US WHAT THE FAÇADE IS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT IS<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THE FRONT OF OUR BUILDING.<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> AND WHAT WE ARE REALLY<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> KNOWN FOR ARE OUR COLUMNS.<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: I LOVE THE COLUMNS.<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: AND EVERY DAY, ALL<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> DAY, EVERY HOUR, PEOPLE ARE<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> PHOTOGRAPHING IN FRONT OF IT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: PLUS I ALWAYS<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> SEE THEM IN ADS.<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: OH YES, YEAH, YEAH.<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> SO PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> THE COUNTRY TO SEE YOUR MUSEUM,<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> BUT WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> TO REMIND NEW MEXICANS TO<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> COME DOWNTOWN IN SANTA FE AND<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> SEE OUR MUSEUMS.

HOW LONG<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> HAVE YOU BEEN THE DIRECTOR?<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: I AM IN MY<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> FIFTEENTH YEAR AS DIRECTOR.<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: OH GOOD, OH GOOD,<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> GOOD, GOOD.

YOU SENT ME<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> YOUR CURRICULUM VITAE<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> YOUR CD AND IT WAS AMAZING.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THANK YOU.<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> >>LORENE: IT WAS AMAZING,<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> WE COULD DO EIGHT SHOWS JUST<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> FROM EACH CHAPTER IN YOUR<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> LIFE THAT YOU HAVE DONE.<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> BUT YOU HAVE A BACHELOR'S IN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY FROM SOUTHERN<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> METHODIST UNIVERSITY,<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> A GRADUATE CERTIFICATE<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> IN MUSEUM STUDIES FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> HARVARD, AND A LITTLE ICING<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> ON THE CAKE, A MASTER'S<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> IN CREATIVE WRITING FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.

BUT WANOKA DID<\p> A GREAT JOB AND SHE SET<\p> UP A LOT OF GOOD THINGS<\p> THAT WE STILL HAVE IN PLACE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.

WHAT ARE<\p> YOUR FUTURE PLANS, WHAT<\p> ARE YOU LOOKING AT?<\p> >>PATSY: OH, THAT'S<\p> A GOOD QUESTION.

IN<\p> WHAT WAY, EXHIBITS?<\p> >>LORENE: IN EXHIBITS,<\p> BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO<\p> URGE PEOPLE TO COME AND<\p> SEE WHAT YOU HAVE THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: JEAN LAMARR IS AN<\p> IMPORTANT PAINTER AND SHE<\p> HAD ALSO TAUGHT AT IAIA AND<\p> SHE HAD AN EXHIBIT THAT OPENED<\p> IN NEVADA, I THINK IT WAS LAST<\p> YEAR AND ALSO A CATALOG.

SO WE<\p> ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT SHOW,<\p> IT IS A TRAVELING EXHIBITION,<\p> AND THAT WILL OPEN THIS FALL.<\p> BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE ALSO<\p> LOOKING AT IS WORKING WITH<\p> THE INDIGENOUS OF BRAZIL.<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR IS WORKING<\p> ON A POTENTIAL EXHIBITION<\p> WITH THEM AND THEN ALSO THE<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF TAIWAN.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO OUR MISSION IS<\p> GLOBAL AND IAIA, THE COLLEGE,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL<\p> STUDENTS THAT GO THERE AND<\p> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS<\p> JUST NATIVE STUDENTS BUT IT<\p> IS NOT, IT IS ALSO NON-NATIVE.<\p> SO OUR MISSION IS TO REPRESENT<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTS AROUND THE WORLD<\p> AND SO WE PLAN TO WORK WITH<\p> THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL I WANT YOU TO<\p> KEEP US POSTED ON THIS.

I AM<\p> HAPPY TO SAY THAT OUR GUEST<\p> TODAY IS PATSY PHILLIPS,<\p> THE DIRECTOR OF THE IAIA MUSEUM<\p> OF CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ARTS,<\p> THE WINNER OF THE THIRD BEST<\p> ART MUSEUM IN THE COUNTRY AND<\p> WE REALLY WANT TO CELEBRATE THAT<\p> AND ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO COME<\p> AND SEE IT IN DOWNTOWN SANTA FE<\p> RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL AND<\p> IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU<\p> FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT FOR ME IT IS NOT<\p> ABOUT THE COMPETITION, IT<\p> IS JUST ABOUT RECOGNIZING OUR<\p> SMALL STAFF.

I MEAN WE HAVE<\p> LESS THAN 15 STAFF THAT WORK<\p> AT THE MUSEUM DOING THIS WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WE ARE REALLY PLEASED<\p> THAT WE WERE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.<\p> AND I AM HAPPY YOU CAME TO TELL<\p> US ABOUT IT, I URGE EVERYONE<\p> TO GO THERE.

THANK YOU, PATSY.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> THANK YOU SO MUCH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS,<\p> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR<\p> AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US<\p> TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .<\p> REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE<\p> POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS<\p> FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL<\p> LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO<\p> THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM<\p> HARVARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.<\p> >>PATSY: THANK YOU,<\p> IT'S A LOT OF WORK.<\p> >>LORENE: YES, IT IS.

BUT,<\p> I AM WONDERING, WHAT SET YOU<\p> ON THIS PATH, DID YOU ALWAYS<\p> LOVE MUSEUMS OR WAS IT<\p> THE DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY,<\p> THERE IS A LOT OF DIGGING<\p> AROUND AND RESEARCH TO DO.<\p> WHAT SET YOU ON THIS PATH?<\p> >>PATSY: I ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY<\p> I COME FROM A HIGHLY UNEDUCATED<\p> FAMILY, YOU KNOW HOW PEOPLE<\p> SAY EDUCATED.

MY FATHER WAS<\p> ILLITERATE, HE COULD ONLY SIGN<\p> HIS NAME AND MY MOTHER WENT TO<\p> THE EIGHTH GRADE, SO EDUCATION<\p> WASN'T ENCOURAGED IN MY<\p> FAMILY.

AND WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL<\p> ALTHOUGH BOTH MY SISTERS<\p> DIDN'T, BUT WHEN I GRADUATED,<\p> I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING<\p> TO COLLEGE, IT WASN'T EVEN<\p> SOMETHING IN MY HEAD.

AND SO<\p> IN MY 20S, I STARTED READING<\p> THE CLASSICS AND I READ MANY,<\p> MANY CLASSICS, I CAN'T SAY ALL<\p> OF THEM BUT MANY.

AND I JUST<\p> STARTED GETTING INTERESTED IN<\p> LEARNING AND SO I DIDN'T GO TO<\p> COLLEGE UNTIL I WAS 30, AND<\p> I WENT TO SMU WHEN I WAS 30.<\p> I MET A PROFESSOR, DR. WILLIAM<\p> PULTE AT SMU, AND HE WAS A<\p> LINGUIST AND HE STUDIED MY<\p> GRANDFATHER AND MY UNCLE ON<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION AND SO<\p> THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHEN<\p> YOU ARE RAISED IN A CERTAIN<\p> CULTURE IT IS NOT THAT SPECIAL,<\p> YOU ARE JUST RAISED IN IT.<\p> AND SO HE GOT ME REALLY<\p> INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MY<\p> OWN TRIBE AND THAT WAS AN<\p> ANTHROPOLOGY CLASS SO THAT IS<\p> WHAT STARTED ME ON THAT PATH.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE<\p> ARTICLES I READ ABOUT YOU<\p> IS CALLED DUAL IDENTITIES,<\p> BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CHEROKEE<\p> AND THE IRISH AND YOU WERE<\p> RAISED BOTH NATIVE AND<\p> NON-NATIVE.

SO HOW WAS THAT<\p> WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP,<\p> DID YOU COMPARTMENTALIZE<\p> THEM OR DID YOU EMBRACE<\p> THEM BOTH, WAS IT CONFUSING?<\p> >>PATSY: IT WAS VERY CONFUSING,<\p> REALLY.

MY CHEROKEE FAMILY<\p> LIVES ON THE CHEROKEE NATION<\p> AND MY FATHER'S FAMILY, THE<\p> IRISH, LIVES NOT FAR FROM<\p> THE CHEROKEE NATION.

SO WE<\p> WOULD SPEND SUMMERS WITH<\p> BOTH FAMILIES.

BUT I LIKE<\p> TO TELL THE STORY, I HAD A<\p> DREAM GROWING UP AND THAT IS<\p> I WAS AT MY IRISH FAMILY'S<\p> HOUSE, MY GRANDPARENTS AND<\p> THE INDIANS WERE SURROUNDING<\p> THE HOUSE ON HORSEBACK AND<\p> MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER<\p> WERE TRYING TO HOLD ME BACK<\p> AND I'M LIKE RUNNING OUT THE<\p> DOOR, "I AM INDIAN, I AM INDIAN,<\p> I JUST DON'T LOOK INDIAN.

"<\p> AND MY UNCLE JAKE ON MY INDIAN<\p> SIDE PUTS ME ON THE BACK OF<\p> HIS HORSE AND TAKES ME OFF.<\p> SO THAT WAS A REOCCURRING<\p> DREAM THAT I HAD UNTIL I WAS<\p> ABOUT 11, SO, IT WAS CONFUSING.<\p> >>LORENE: YES AND THAT'S SUCH<\p> A PERFECTLY SYMBOLIC DREAM.<\p> I MEAN WHAT A GIFT, WHAT A GIFT.<\p> BUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF IDENTITY<\p> IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT IS A BIG<\p> ISSUE.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE IN<\p> THE PAST, IT IS A BIG ISSUE,<\p> PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE THE<\p> ISSUE ANYMORE, BUT I DID WHEN<\p> I WAS GROWING UP AND I DID<\p> WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE FIELD<\p> AND MAINLY BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK<\p> CHEROKEE.

BUT MY MOTHER IS<\p> FULL BLOOD, SHE IS A FLUENT<\p> SPEAKER IN CHEROKEE SO,<\p> YOU KNOW, I AM AUTHENTIC.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: BUT A LOT OF<\p> ART THAT IS CREATED<\p> TODAY IS ABOUT IDENTITY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: A LOT OF YOUNG<\p> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO ONE OF<\p> YOUR EARLY EXHIBITS WAS ABOUT<\p> FINDING OUR VOICES AND BECAUSE<\p> IT HAS TAKEN CENTURIES, DECADES<\p> FOR AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN<\p> VOICES TO BE RECOGNIZED.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WE HAVE GOT<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO, OUR<\p> FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN POET<\p> LAUREATE AND SCOTT MOMADAY,<\p> OH MY GOSH, WITH THE VOICE.<\p> THE VOICE OF THE HEAVENS.

BUT<\p> IT HAS BEEN A LONG PROCESS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS A LONG PROCESS,<\p> WE ARE STILL IN IT.

WE ARE<\p> NOT THROUGH IT FOR SURE, BUT,<\p> PEOPLE LIKE JOY HARJO AND<\p> SCOTT, I MEAN REALLY, THEY<\p> ARE VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.<\p> WE HAVE MANY TODAY NOW.<\p> >>LORENE: I WOULD LIKE TO<\p> LOOK A LITTLE BIT AT SOME OF,<\p> YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT<\p> SOME OF THE PAST IN YOUR<\p> FIFTEEN YEARS AS DIRECTOR,<\p> SOME OF THE PAST EXHIBITS YOU<\p> HAVE DONE BUT ALSO WHAT<\p> PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW, CURRENT.<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY.

I BROUGHT AN<\p> IMAGE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE RICK<\p> RIVET, HE IS A CANADIAN ARTIST<\p> AND HE WAS REALLY MOST POPULAR<\p> IN THE 90S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> DON'T KNOW HIM AND I PERSONALLY<\p> DIDN'T KNOW HIM, BUT OUR CHIEF<\p> CURATOR DID.

THAT IS ONE OF<\p> THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT<\p> MY MUSEUM IS THAT I CAN KEEP<\p> LEARNING.

SO THAT IS RICK RIVET,<\p> AND HE IS ON VIEW IN OUR MAIN<\p> GALLERY, HIS WORK, AND HE IS<\p> A PAINTER AND HE LIVES UP IN<\p> NORTHWEST PASSAGE, SHAMANISM.<\p> HIS JOURNEY BASICALLY AND HIS<\p> PAINTINGS ARE SURREALISTIC,<\p> REALLY REALLY GOOD PAINTINGS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THEY ARE<\p> VERY EVOCATIVE.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN YOU<\p> HAVE SOME OTHER ONES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THEN WE HAVE OUR<\p> BFA EXHIBITION, IT'S CALLED<\p> BEYOND REFLECTIONS AND THIS<\p> ISJONTAY KAHM AND HE IS AN<\p> INCREDIBLE YOUNG DESIGNER, SO<\p> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HIS WORK.<\p> BUT WITH OUR BFA SHOW, WE LET<\p> STUDENTS CURATE IT, SO IXEL<\p> LINDSTROM, AN IAIA STUDENT<\p> CURATED THIS SHOW AND<\p> SHE JUST DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> >>LORENE: WOULD YOU DESCRIBE<\p> THE UNIQUE TEXTURE OF<\p> THIS GARMENT BECAUSE IT<\p> FEATURES GOOSE FEATHERS?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY<\p> GOOSE FEATHERS.<\p> >>LORENE: HOW LOVELY.<\p> >>PATSY: HE IS SO TALENTED.<\p> YOU WILL HAVE TO COME,<\p> EVERYBODY WILL HAVE TO COME<\p> AND SEE EVERYBODY'S WORK,<\p> THE WHOLE SHOW IS EXCELLENT.<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: AND IT JUST<\p> OPENED TODAY, THAT SHOW<\p> JUST OPENED TODAY.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, CONGRATULATIONS,<\p> CONGRATULATIONS.

HERE IS<\p> ANOTHER ONE, ARMORED BEAUTY.<\p> >>PATSY: NOW THAT IS A SHOW THAT<\p> WE HAD IN OUR PAST.

AND I WILL<\p> JUST QUICKLY SHOW THE IMAGE.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, YOU MUST<\p> SHOW IT, IT'S STUNNING.<\p> >>PATSY: THIS IS DECONTIE AND<\p> BROWN, THIS WAS A FASHION SHOW<\p> WE HAD LAST FALL AND DECONTIE<\p> AND BROWN, THEY ARE A MARRIED<\p> COUPLE AND THEY CREATED THIS<\p> WORK TOGETHER.

THIS IS AN<\p> UPCYCLED WEDDING DRESS AND THEY<\p> TOOK RESEARCH THAT HAD BEEN<\p> CONDUCTED IN BRAZIL.

SO THE<\p> DRINK SCHWEPPES A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THAT DRINK SCHWEPPES,<\p> THEY COMMISSIONED RESEARCHERS<\p> TO CREATE A DRESS WITH SENSORS<\p> TO SEE HOW MUCH A WOMAN<\p> IS TOUCHED IN A NIGHTCLUB.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU COULDN'T SEE THE<\p> SENSORS, IT WAS A SIMPLE DRESS<\p> AND THEY WERE UNDERNEATH.

IN<\p> REAL TIME THE RESEARCHERS SAT<\p> NEXT DOOR IN A BUILDING AND<\p> THEY TRACKED IN REAL TIME WHAT<\p> WAS HAPPENING AND HOW OFTEN<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED.

AND IN<\p> LESS THAN FOUR HOURS, THE<\p> WOMEN WERE TOUCHED 157 TIMES.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.<\p> >>PATSY: SO WHAT THEY DID<\p> WITH THE RESEARCH IS THEY PUT<\p> THESE SPIKES ALL OVER THE<\p> DRESS SO ON THE SHOULDERS, OF<\p> COURSE, THE BUTTOCKS, AROUND<\p> THE WRIST, EVERYWHERE WOMEN<\p> WERE TOUCHED IN LESS THAN<\p> FOUR HOURS, 157 TIMES.

IT IS<\p> PRETTY STUNNING, I THINK.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE<\p> MUSEUM IS THAT WE ARE TEACHING<\p> PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN<\p> INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES.

THIS<\p> DRESS IS ALSO ABOUT MISSING<\p> MURDERED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND<\p> GIRLS, OF COURSE THEY DON'T<\p> WANT TO BE TOUCHED, RIGHT?<\p> SO WE ARE TEACHING WHAT IS<\p> HAPPENING AND WITH THIS SHOW,<\p> IT WAS FABULOUS, IT IS CALLED<\p> THE ART OF INDIGENOUS FASHION.<\p> AND YOU WALK IN AND YOU SEE A<\p> WHOLE GALLERY OF JUST BEAUTIFUL,<\p> BEAUTIFUL GOWNS, NOT JUST GOWNS<\p> BUT ALSO OTHER BEADWORK, ETC.<\p> THEN YOU READ CLOSELY, AND<\p> YOU READ A STORY LIKE THIS<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY AND IT HAS<\p> SO MUCH MEANING BEHIND IT.<\p> >>LORENE: OH, IT DOES BUT IT<\p> IS EYE OPENING FOR EVERY WOMAN.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, EVERYONE,<\p> IT IS UNIVERSAL.<\p> >>LORENE: AND THEN FOR<\p> ENDANGERED, MISSING AND<\p> MURDERED, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS<\p> THERE WOULD BE WAY MORE<\p> UNWANTED TOUCHING, WAY MORE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: I AM KIND OF GOB<\p> SMACKED BY THE BRILLIANCE OF<\p> CREATING A GARMENT LIKE THAT.<\p> >>PATSY: I KNOW, ME TOO.<\p> >>LORENE: IT IS A DOCUMENT OF<\p> WHAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING BUT,<\p> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALRIGHT, BOYS<\p> WILL BE BOYS AND ALL THAT STUFF<\p> AND NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S WHY ART<\p> IS SO IMPORTANT.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: REALLY.

I MEAN<\p> NOWHERE ELSE CAN YOU PUT<\p> ALL THAT TOGETHER AND LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT.

I MEAN AND YOU LEARN<\p> ABOUT IT REALLY THROUGH BEAUTY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THERE IS ONE<\p> OTHER PIECE THAT I WANTED YOU<\p> TO TELL ME ABOUT IF YOU COULD.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THIS IS A SHOW<\p> THAT WE HAD EARLY LAST YEAR.<\p> IT IS CALLED EXPOSE YOUR NATIVE<\p> ART AND POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: AND WHAT?<\p> >>PATSY: POLITICAL ECOLOGY.<\p> >>LORENE: POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY, LORD.<\p> >>PATSY: AND THIS SHOW,<\p> I WANT TO SAY FIRST, IT WAS<\p> GENEROUSLY FUNDED, THE ANDY<\p> WARHOL FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> THE FORD FOUNDATION FUNDED IT,<\p> AND WHAT WE DID, THE CURATOR<\p> AND I DID SOME WORK ON IT WITH<\p> THE CURATOR, BUT BASICALLY WE<\p> LOOKED AT INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES<\p> AROUND THE WORLD AND HOW THEY<\p> ARE AFFECTED BY URANIUM MINING<\p> AND NUCLEAR WASTE.

AND SO<\p> WE WENT TO GREENLAND AND THAT<\p> WAS THE INUITS, AND THEN WE<\p> WENT TO AUSTRALIA AND THAT<\p> WAS THE ABORIGINALS AND THAT<\p> PIECE IS AN ABORIGINAL PIECE,<\p> IT IS A COLLECTIVE AND THERE<\p> ARE 500 SPEARS AND THEN IF YOU<\p> LOOK AT THE PIECE CLOSELY,<\p> THERE IS A LIGHT IN THE<\p> CENTER AND BASICALLY IT<\p> IS A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION.<\p> >>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO THE WORK IN THAT<\p> EXHIBITION IS SO SIGNIFICANT.<\p> WE ALSO HAD THE AINU OF JAPAN,<\p> WE HAD CANADA, THE FIRST NATIONS<\p> AND THEN WE HAD OF COURSE THE<\p> US MOSTLY NAVAJO IN THAT SHOW.<\p> >>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING<\p> TODAY WITH PATSY PHILLIPS<\p> WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF,<\p> TELL US THE WHOLE TITLE.<\p> >>PATSY: IAIA MUSEUM OF<\p> CONTEMPORARY NATIVE ART AND<\p> WE ARE ALSO KNOWN BY MOCNA.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, THAT IS THE ONE<\p> I WAS TRYING TO RECONSTRUCT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, OKAY.<\p> >>LORENE: NOT TO GIVE AN<\p> ABBREVIATION FOR THAT AND NOT<\p> KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

SO THAT IS<\p> SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE<\p> DON'T WANT TO KNOW, I MEAN<\p> WE ARE LOOKING AT PASSING A<\p> BILL IN THIS LEGISLATURE AND<\p> THE BACKGROUND NOISE THAT<\p> OUR AUDIENCE HEARS, WE ARE<\p> FILMING DURING THE SESSION<\p> AND THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE<\p> LAWMAKERS AT WORK.

BUT WE WANT<\p> TO PASS A LAW FOR NEW MEXICO<\p> THAT WE DON'T, SOMEONE HAD<\p> THE BRIGHT IDEA TO SEND THE<\p> ENTIRE NATION'S SPENT FUEL RODS,<\p> HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, TO BE<\p> BURIED DOWN IN ABOVE CARLSBAD.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, I HAD<\p> HEARD ABOUT THAT.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT WE DON'T WANT IT.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO, BUT A LOT<\p> OF THE PEOPLE SAY, "OH<\p> WE WILL GET 30 JOBS OUT<\p> OF IT."

BUT YOU WILL GET<\p> 300,000 YEARS OF POISON.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: SO, WHEN YOU LOOK<\p> AT AN IMAGE LIKE THAT WITH<\p> ALL THE 500 ARROWS OR SPEARS<\p> AND THE LIGHT, IT ALLOWS US<\p> TO ACCESS POSSIBILITIES AND<\p> NEW WAYS OF LOOKING AT<\p> THESE THINGS THAT SEEM TO BE<\p> FACILELY JUST EXPLAINED AWAY,<\p> NO PROBLEM, THE FACT THAT<\p> THEY WILL ALL COME ON TRAINS<\p> AND THERE ARE ALL THESE TRAIN<\p> WRECKS.

I MEAN WE HOPE THAT<\p> DURING THE SESSION WE'LL DO<\p> THE RIGHT THING AND SAY, "NO,<\p> WE ALREADY GAVE TO THE ATOMIC<\p> ENERGY, BOMBS, AND EVERYTHING.

"<\p> >>PATSY: CAN I TELL YOU THEY<\p> HAVE DONE A LOT OF MINING ON<\p> INDIAN COUNTRY, SO FOR EXAMPLE,<\p> THE NAVAJO.

I MEAN THEY DID<\p> SERIOUS MINING IN THE 50S, 60S,<\p> AND THEN THE COMPANIES DIDN'T<\p> CLEAN THEM UP, SO THE NATIVE<\p> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.<\p> >>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.<\p> >>PATSY: THE WATER, I MEAN<\p> REALLY, IT IS A SERIOUS,<\p> SERIOUS ISSUE.<\p> >>LORENE: I WILL TELL YOU THAT<\p> IN THE LAST SESSION, SENATOR<\p> STEINBORN FROM LAS CRUCES,<\p> PASSED A LAW.

WE HAVE BEEN<\p> WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO<\p> CLEAN UP ALL THESE URANIUM<\p> TAILINGS AND HE PASSED A LAW<\p> THAT WE HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP,<\p> IT JUST HAS TO BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>PATSY: IT HAS TO<\p> BE CLEANED UP.<\p> >>LORENE: IT HAS TO BE<\p> IDENTIFIED.

DON'T HAVE<\p> YOUR PICNIC ON THIS<\p> ATTRACTIVE PILE OF ROCKS<\p> AS THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: AND SO NOW WE ARE<\p> TRYING TO HAVE BARRIERS THAT<\p> THEY CAN'T BRING IN EXTERNAL<\p> WASTE, BUT IT IS SHOCKING<\p> THAT NOBODY WARNED ANYBODY.<\p> THEY JUST LEFT IT THERE.<\p> >>PATSY: SO LET ME TELL YOU<\p> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE<\p> DOING WITH THE SHOW EXPOSURE<\p> NATIVE ART AND POLITICAL<\p> ECOLOGY IS WE HAVE CREATED<\p> A FABULOUS CATALOG FOR ONE<\p> THING.

AND IT REALLY DOES, WE<\p> WORKED WITH CURATORS IN ALL<\p> THOSE COUNTRIES, INDIGENOUS<\p> CURATORS IN THOSE COUNTRIES,<\p> AND THEY WROTE ESSAYS ABOUT<\p> WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR<\p> COUNTRY.

AND SINCE WE WERE<\p> SHIPPING ALL THAT WORK FROM<\p> THESE DIFFERENT LANDS, I ASKED<\p> THE CHIEF CURATOR, "LET'S<\p> TRAVEL THAT SHOW."

AND SO IT'S<\p> TRAVELING RIGHT NOW, IT'S AT<\p> THE ARMORY IN PASADENA,<\p> CALIFORNIA AND THEN IT GOES<\p> TO EL PASO NEXT.

BUT IT IS A<\p> WAY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, I MEAN<\p> THAT REALLY IS OUR GOAL HERE.<\p> IT IS SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM,<\p> IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN MANY<\p> AREAS AND MANY COMMUNITIES.<\p> >>LORENE: AND AGAIN IT IS<\p> SOMETHING THAT THE POWERS THAT<\p> BE WILL TELL YOU BECAUSE THEY<\p> TOLD US ABOUT HOLTECH AND<\p> URANIUM, "OH NO PROBLEM," THERE<\p> ARE NO TRAIN WRECKS, THERE'S<\p> NOTHING.

BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO<\p> GO AGAINST THE TIDE AND FIGHT<\p> AGAINST THIS, BUT I DIDN'T<\p> KNOW THERE WAS A RADIOACTIVITY<\p> STORAGE PROBLEM IN GREENLAND.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: WHOSE WASTE IS THAT?<\p> >>PATSY: OKAY, SO LET ME TELL<\p> YOU THIS, THIS IS FASCINATING<\p> TO ME.

SO GREENLAND HAS THE<\p> THREAT OF URANIUM MINING, THEY<\p> DON'T HAVE IT YET, IN FACT THEY<\p> HAVE BEEN VOTING, AT A POINT<\p> THEY VOTED FOR IT, NOW THEY ARE<\p> VOTING AGAINST IT.

SO WE COVERED<\p> THEM, THE ICE IS MELTING, RIGHT?<\p> >>LORENE: RIGHT.<\p> >>PATSY: SO THAT'S WHY.<\p> NOW ALL THESE INTERNATIONAL<\p> COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE<\p> INUIT, GREENLAND IS 87%<\p> INUIT.

SO THEY WANT TO HAVE<\p> INDEPENDENCE FROM DENMARK AND<\p> SO THESE COMPANIES ARE COMING<\p> IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE'LL MINE.<\p> THERE WAS A POINT WHERE THEY<\p> WERE SORT OF INTERESTED SO<\p> THEY COULD GET INDEPENDENCE,<\p> NOW THEY ARE SAYING NO.<\p> SO THEY DON'T HAVE ANY YET<\p> BUT THERE COULD BE IN THE<\p> FUTURE.

SO THAT'S WHY WE<\p> COVERED THEM FOR AWARENESS.<\p> >>LORENE: BUT ISN'T THAT<\p> ETERNAL SEED BANK IN GREENLAND,<\p> WHERE THEY TOOK SEEDS IN<\p> CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED?<\p> >>PATSY: OH YEAH, YEAH,<\p> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU KNOW SO THAT<\p> THEY WOULD BE HAVING THEN<\p> THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.<\p> >>LORENE: THE SEEDS OF LIFE<\p> AND THEN THE SEEDS OF THE<\p> LEFT-HAND WAY OF DEATH PERHAPS.<\p> BUT THEY ARE VERY WISE I THINK.<\p> WOW, THERE'S SO MUCH, SO MUCH.<\p> THANK YOU.

AND TELL US AGAIN,<\p> HOW ART BYPASSES THE CRITICAL<\p> MIND, HOW DOES ART WORK?<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT'S A<\p> PRETTY ESOTERIC QUESTION.<\p> >>LORENE: I KNOW IT IS,<\p> I KNOW IT IS.<\p> >>PATSY: IT IS VERY<\p> INDIVIDUALISTIC IN MANY WAYS,<\p> RIGHT?

I MEAN WE SHOW THESE<\p> LET'S TAKE THAT ONE-PIECE<\p> ARMORED BEAUTY.

I MEAN SOME<\p> PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND JUST<\p> LOOK AND SAY, THAT'S AN<\p> INTERESTING DRESS.

AND THEN<\p> SOME PEOPLE WILL COME IN AND<\p> READ THE LABEL AND TRY TO<\p> LEARN MORE ABOUT IT AND THEN<\p> REALLY UNDERSTAND IT AND<\p> THEN THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT<\p> IS HAPPENING IN THE INDIAN<\p> COMMUNITIES.

SO REALLY, ART<\p> IN MANY WAYS IS SUBJECTIVE,<\p> BUT ART WORKS IN SHOWING<\p> PEOPLE REALLY ABOUT ISSUES.<\p> CONTEMPORARY ART IS<\p> PRIMARILY ABOUT ISSUES IN<\p> THE WORLD AND THAT IS WHAT<\p> THEY ADDRESS, THE ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: ARE WE SUPPORTING OUR<\p> ARTISTS WELL ENOUGH?

WE ARE<\p> IN SANTA FE, ONE OF THE ART<\p> CAPITALS OF THE WORLD.<\p> >>PATSY: WHAT ARTISTS ARE YOU<\p> TALKING ABOUT, ANY ARTISTS?<\p> >>LORENE: ANY ARTISTS<\p> OF FIBER, FILM, JEWELS,<\p> SCULPTURE, STONE, WOOD.<\p> >>PATSY: THEY CAN ALL<\p> BE SUPPORTED MORE<\p> THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.<\p> >>PATSY: YOU KNOW THE BIG ISSUE<\p> IS REALLY HOUSING FOR ARTISTS.<\p> IT IS SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE<\p> HERE AS WE ALL KNOW.

BUT, YEAH,<\p> THEY CAN ALWAYS BE SUPPORTED<\p> MORE.

WE GET GRANT FUNDS AND,<\p> YOU KNOW, WE PAY OUR ARTISTS<\p> TO EXHIBIT AT THE MUSEUM.<\p> THAT IS A FAIRLY NEW PRACTICE,<\p> IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, ARTISTS<\p> JUST WERE EXPECTED TO EXHIBIT.<\p> BUT NOW WE WILL PAY ARTISTS<\p> A FEE, WE PAY EVERYBODY,<\p> INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WHO WORK<\p> FOR US, WE PAY EVERYBODY.<\p> PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PANELS<\p> FOR EXAMPLE AND ARTISTS.<\p> >>LORENE: YOU HAD SAID AT ONE<\p> POINT, "MY THING IS THAT WE<\p> HAVE THE BEST ARTISTS IN THE<\p> WORLD, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE<\p> PLATFORM WITH CONTEMPORARY<\p> ARTISTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

"<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH, THAT IS RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: PARTICULARLY<\p> NATIVE ARTISTS.<\p> >>PATSY: YEAH.

WHEN I FIRST<\p> GOT INTO THE FIELD, I WAS IN<\p> MY MID 30S AND I WAS INVITED,<\p> THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE<\p> LOCALLY IN SANTA FE.

I WAS<\p> LIVING IN PHOENIX, WORKING<\p> FOR ATLATL AND I WAS INVITED<\p> TO PARTICIPATE IN ORGANIZING<\p> AN EXHIBITION AT THE VENICE<\p> BIENNALE IN 2007.

AND WE TOOK<\p> A GROUP OF NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> IN 2009.

HARRY FONSECA,BOB<\p> HAOZOUS, NANCY MARIE MITHLO,<\p> LLOYD KIVA NEW, LADONNA<\p> HARRIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF<\p> PEOPLE AND I WAS YOUNG BUT<\p> IT WAS SO EXCITING TO BE PART<\p> OF IT.

I THINK THAT HAD SUCH<\p> AN IMPACT, THAT IS WHY WE DO<\p> THE WORK, THAT'S WHY I DO THE<\p> WORK I DO TODAY.

BUT WE WOULD<\p> GO TO VENICE AND I HAVE GONE<\p> MANY TIMES NOW OVER THE YEARS<\p> AND WITH MAYBE ONE OF MY<\p> COLLEAGUES OR SOMEBODY AND<\p> WE ARE LIKE THIS COULD BE A<\p> NATIVE ARTS.

NATIVE ARTISTS<\p> ARE BETTER THAN THIS<\p> PARTICULAR WORK, OF COURSE<\p> NOT EVERYTHING BUT WE HAVE<\p> ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY.

AND,<\p> INDIGENOUS ARTISTS HAVE YET<\p> TO BE IN THE UNITED STATES<\p> PAVILION REPRESENTING THE<\p> UNITED STATES AND THEY HAD<\p> IN THE 30S THEY TOOK OVER<\p> SOME POTS, SO I WILL SAY IN<\p> MODERN DAY THAT IS DEFINITELY<\p> TRUE.

WE ORGANIZED A SHOW AND<\p> TOOK IT OVER BUT IT WAS MORE<\p> OF WHAT THEY CALL "COLLATERAL".<\p> THEY WERE THE EXHIBITS THAT<\p> WEREN'T OFFICIALLY IN THE<\p> VENICE BIENNALE ALTHOUGH<\p> THEY WERE ACKNOWLEDGED BY<\p> THE BIENNALE COMMITTEE.<\p> >>LORENE: YEAH, ONE OF THE<\p> THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE<\p> IN YOUR CAREER IS TO TAKE A<\p> CHALLENGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY<\p> AND I WAS REALLY INTERESTED<\p> BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC,<\p> YOU HAVE A SENIOR MANAGER,<\p> A MUSEUM EDUCATOR, A DINE WOMAN<\p> NAMED WINOKA YEPA.

AND SO SHE<\p> HAS DEVELOPED A PHONE APP AND<\p> DIGITIZED THE WHOLE EXHIBIT<\p> ON SOMETHING CALLED ART STEPS<\p> APP.

AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY,<\p> ON YOUR PHONE OR TABLET,<\p> YOU CAN HAVE A VIRTUAL TOUR.<\p> >>PATSY: THAT'S RIGHT.<\p> >>LORENE: THAT IS WONDERFUL.<\p> >>PATSY: THERE ARE A FEW GOOD<\p> THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID,<\p> NOT A LOT, BUT A FEW.

ONE<\p> OF THEM IS WHEN YOU HAD AN<\p> EXHIBITION, AND YOU DIDN'T<\p> HAVE A CATALOG, WHEN IT<\p> CAME DOWN, THAT WAS IT.

THAT<\p> WAS JUST IT, IT WAS GONE AND<\p> THAT IS PRETTY COMMON.

BUT NOW,<\p> WE HAVE ALL OF OUR EXHIBITIONS<\p> VIRTUAL AND SO YOU CAN GO ON<\p> OUR WEBSITE AND EVEN TODAY<\p> OUR EXHIBIT.

SO WE ARE GOING TO<\p> DO THIS IN PERPETUITY, THAT'S<\p> WHAT I SAID.

WHAT I WOULD<\p> LIKE TO SAY ABOUT WHEN WANOKA<\p> YEPA, SHE DID A GREAT JOB.<\p> SHE ALSO SET UP SOME VIRTUAL<\p> RESIDENCIES AND THOSE WERE A<\p> CHALLENGE, BUT SHE LEFT FOR<\p> A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND SHE<\p> WENT TO WORK FOR NATIVES<\p> IN PHILANTHROPY.

SHE IS<\p> NO LONGER AT THE MUSEUM<\p> BUT WE JUST HIRED WAYNE<\p> GAUSSOIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE<\p> KNOW THE GAUSSOIN FAMILY.<\p> >>LORENE: YES.<\p> >>PATSY: AND SO HE IS STARTING<\p> AS OUR MUSEUM EDUCATOR<\p> ON MONDAY.