Production and distribution of City Club forums and ideastream public media are made possible by PNC and the United Black, fond of greater Cleveland, Inc.. Good afternoon and welcome to the City Club of Cleveland, where we are devoted to conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

It's Friday, April 12th.

And I'm Connie Hill Johnson, chairperson of the Cleveland Foundation Board of Directors.

And I'm extremely pleased to introduce today's forum, which is part of the City Club Building Success series.

Economic stability is the ability to access resources that are essential to one's life and well-being.

This access includes employment, income, financial support and services and, of course, philanthropy.

Today, we will hear more about what factors are involved in building intergenerational wealth and stability and how to leverage community partnerships with financial institutions, businesses and philanthropy to build the path to prosperity.

This weekend, the Cleveland Foundation's African-American Philanthropy Committee will host its biennial summit.

Today, we will set the stage with an important conversation on striving for economic stability in black families.

Joining us to discuss this and more is Margot Copeland, former bank executive and current board member of the Cleveland Foundation.

Todd McDonald, president and second generation leader at Liberty Bank.

And Vanessa Whiting, president of AEC Management Corp.. Moderating today's conversation is Jeff Johnson, managing director.

At Atom.

If you have a.

Question for our panelists, you can text it to 3305415794.

That's 3305415794.

And the city club staff will try to work it into the second half of the program.

Members and friends of the City Club of Cleveland, please join me in welcoming Margot, Todd, Vanessa and Jeff.

Jeff.

Thank you.

Thank you, Connie.

So appreciate it as well as you and Lillian for all the work that you are doing with the team at the Cleveland Foundation, not only for this weekend, but always.

I know that there is a there's a thing about being on the stage at the city club.

There's a process that is followed and there are rules and pomp and circumstance.

But I'm from Cleveland, and I would not be operating in decency or order if I did not recognize my mother and my godmother and my aunt who are in the building.

And so thank you.

This is an incredibly important conversation, talking about paving a way for prosperity and philanthropy, creating generational wealth, which which so often is about disrupting so many systems that have been in existence since the formation of this country as much as it is creating new opportunity.

And so thankful to you all for for being part of this conversation.

The notion of generational wealth speaks to a level of generational responsibility.

And so I'm curious, in your own lives, what what's the earliest experience you remember having that said to you, wait a minute, I have a generational responsibility.

MARTIN Well, first of all, thank you, Jeff, and good afternoon.

So many of my friends are in the audience, so thank you all for being here.

I grew up in a small town in Virginia Petersburg, and I also thank you sat out for Petersburg.

And I also grew up in a neighborhood that was not only all black, it was really all African-American.

Now, I'll let you start with any assumptions you may have, what that might look like, because I also grew in a city where there was a historically black college house.

And so when you had the advantage of growing up in a community, it was Virginia State University at that time.

You're growing up around a sea of very extraordinary and accomplished individuals.

So all of our fathers had titles.

My Next Door neighbor was the head of the chemistry department around the corner.

My godfather was the CFO of the university down the street, was a dean of the business school, and also around the corner was the architect.

They were dentists and attorneys, lieutenant colonels, all in my neighborhood.

Those are all the dads.

My father was a minister and all of our moms work and they were all educators.

So that model existed for me as a very young child with those extraordinary models of excellence and accomplishments.

Generations of college graduates that preceded my own and then succeeded mine.

So there wasn't accountability.

But I say that because, yes, I was a child of privilege, an accident of birth.

But my grandfather, my mother's side, had a second grade education and and her mother had a fourth grade education.

He was a brakeman on the railroad.

And he just saw young people go up the hill to a school car for him to state.

He had no clue what was going up on that hill.

But he knew something wonderful was going on on that hill because he knew when those kids came down from that hill, they were transformed.

He gave he and his wife, my grandmother had seven children.

Every single one of those kids, they sit on that hill or a couple went to Howard, but they all sit there, but they all went on.

They all went on that hill.

So that's part of my legacy and how I was formed.

And Frank.

Thank you.

So I was trying to remember the earliest time, and I don't really have an event that happened when I was like ten years old or nine years old or anything like that.

But I do feel like the event that I started to understand generational, responsible is right after Hurricane Katrina.

So I live in New Orleans, and my, my, my dad's parents passed away.

So my mom's parents were the only ones living.

And my sister and brother had moved out outside of New Orleans.

So after Hurricane Katrina, we all moved in together because housing was, you know, pretty much blighted, didn't exist.

We had to live in Baton Rouge.

And so we all lived under one roof and so it was kind of that point in time that I saw my parents take care of my grandparents.

And then I also was thinking, well, if I move away, I'll move out of New Orleans.

And that legacy doesn't continue.

And unfortunately, a lot of families in New Orleans do not have the next generation there due to Hurricane Katrina.

So it really uprooted a lot of legacy and a lot of tradition.

So that just says to me it's more important to stay there and to carry on the legacy, because that's what a lot of our communities miss.

Virginia.

I'm also a a daughter of Virginia right down the road from from Margo's home from Richmond, Virginia.

And our stories mirror in many ways.

I have my my mother was one of seven.

Her parents were sharecroppers.

And if you know what that means, your just out of slavery, right?

But each of them graduated from college.

Each one was responsible for helping the next go to college.

They went to Hampton.

I know.

I graduated from Hampton.

And so I knew as a young child what they had gone through in the segregated South and what they had brought themselves out of.

On the other side of my family, I have five aunts.

My great aunt has a Ph.D. from Columbia.

And she she died in the seventies at 90.

So you can do the math.

That side of the family had privilege, but it's an interesting way to obtain privilege.

My great, great, great, great grandfather was the butler to the governors of Virginia for 40 years.

So they had access and resources that others did not.

Others who look like us did not.

So it's very color.

At Virginia State, there's Whiting Hall to my great aunt was dean at Virginia State and they named Whiting Hall after her.

So as a that's what was so as a young child, it was clear to me my responsibility to carry on this legacy because I watched them send other children to college, not their own.

I've learned now that my mother was putting other people through college.

Right.

And she was a principal.

So it didn't they were wealthy.

They were brilliant wealthy in terms of community, in terms of love.

But I also learned and we talked about money that both of my parents, my also my father, both of them have, and he's going, you're not talking about me, but they both invested well at the time.

You could even find a broker to work with the black people.

So my father went directly and bought stocks from companies as a teacher in the segregated South.

So he passed on the legacy of giving of philanthropy, as did my mother.

But they also passed on money.

So you can you can build and accumulate wealth in a variety of different ways.

And I know we're going to talk about business in a little bit, but that was my is my legacy.

And I proudly carry both of them, both on both sides, those who had nothing and came up.

And so I'm one who I know.

And as much as I have accomplished, I was supposed to write.

That's right.

This was easy.

Right.

But they never said that.

There was never pressure.

But when your great aunt has a different Columbia, you're supposed to succeed, right?

I was, so.

I had to.

Well, there was a solid I mean, it was we talked about it, but of course, I mean, my my uncle started talking about the the great lawyers, the Porsches of the, like, Porsches.

So you go look it up.

It was assumed it wasn't whether I was going to go college.

What college are you going to go to?

It was right.

So.

Well, and Vanessa, thank you for that on multiple levels.

Right.

Because there's there's this reality when we when we think about philanthropy sometimes initially through the lens of money and how do we give what is our approach to giving?

I'm curious, because there's often times we have conversations about servicing the black community and it always starts from a place of want versus a place of prosperity, whether whether we're not processing our assets.

Well, we don't think about our money strategically in a philanthropic way.

You talked a little bit about your family and money.

I'm curious, Margo, when you think about how you your family's relationship with money and how that formed your relationship with money, what did that look like?

I was funny kind think about it because this is the time of year.

My mother was the busiest.

She was an unpaid tax consultant for all of her friends.

My mother had a hard training, even.

She was educated in a state where she had a master's degree at the University of Chicago.

And so she was a mathematician and an eighth grade math teacher, but she was just a snap.

And so, quite frankly, she was the money manager of our home.

I had a wonderful father who took care of business, but my mother ran ran it and ran it from the kitchen table.

So I actually saw it real time in life.

And and it was funny to see people just come in there with their papers and she was organizing them and getting their taxes done, you know, doing this window and this season.

So part of what I learned about that was you have to be organized.

And when you really you have to we have to be organized.

If you don't know where you're telling your story at some point in time and going to someone who you trust with your most privileged information, the most confidential information that you trust that can lead and guide you.

So I saw not only her as someone masterful that could help people with that sort of thing, but I saw with people who were smart enough to go and seek that advice or the course, you know where I am now.

That's broadens to other dimensions, but understanding what you know and what you don't know and then aligning yourself with the experts that can help you.

Mm hmm.

Vanessa, as we talk about that, especially when I love Margot, that example, because there there is this notion that we often think about what we don't have and not think about what the community has.

And there was such a time when if one person had it in the community, the community added versus so-and-so or whatever knows it.

But I'm not asking them for help because I don't want to appear like I don't know.

As we think about this whole this this communal peace and not just the money aspect of it.

Vanessa, how do you think about this notion of intentionality?

Because it's said regularly that the African-American community is more philanthropic than any other community, but often least strategic in its philanthropic giving.

How do you think about strategy and the notion of intentionality when we think about leveraging philanthropy and the creation of of generational wealth?

I have become much more intentional, and I still give to causes that are crisis related because if you, you know, basic needs, if you don't or the basic needs aren't fulfilled.

You know, it's difficult to scale up and scale up and everything that we talk about.

But I have become more strategic.

I'm looking at impact.

I want my dollars and my time and my effort to make an impact beyond the crisis.

So how do we invest in moving people out of poverty?

How do we start dismantling systems?

And I'm looking in the room and I see some of some of my friends who are doing the work and investing in their organizations.

I also chair the United Way.

The United Way has a crisis.

We have crisis programs, but we all are starting to look at how do we how do we catalyze other efforts, impact efforts that will start to dismantle the system.

An example, it was a big investment in LED safe.

You know, that we helped to lead that we're looking at universal employment.

What does that look like?

How does that change the dynamic?

So I am being I see.

I don't want to start calling charities because, you know.

But.

I have to give a shout out to Metro and Karibu.

Right.

I see.

Birthing beautiful.

Strike.

I see my Metro family over there.

That they're looking at the social determinants, not just looking impacting the social determinants of health.

United Way is impacting the social determinants of work.

Karamu speaks to the soul for the arts.

We cannot forget our humanity.

So I'm sorry because I could name I see so many institutions out here that are doing the work.

And and I'm also I have my own foundation now.

And so we give through my foundation, our family foundation.

The second generation is over there, through our family foundation.

But we are being much more intentional.

You don't just write a check to whoever asks, and it's because there's so many worthy causes.

But I'm now looking at who is really and those causes are still food bank still, you know, was very involved did their harvest for hunger campaign of two years ago.

And they're also pivoting to not just serving food is vitally important.

You have to write basic needs, but also putting wraparound services so that we can elevate individuals and the community because this is community work.

I mean, this I believe I hope what I'm doing is helping to elevate the community.

Yes, we're working with individuals, but we need to break down those systems.

And I want to build on that a little bit.

Todd, one of the things that I'm hearing Vanessa say, too, was the word impact.

And I think that there is an evolution taking place within philanthropy.

I mean, even if you think about the Cleveland Foundation and a real intentional move towards impact investing as in addition to programs.

I'm curious about how your views of philanthropy and its ability to to create impact has evolved as you have evolved as your giving has evolved.

So one, I think the access to technology has definitely started to assist in some of those efforts because in the seventies, eighties, a lot of our communities did not have access, as you mentioned, to just normal financial products.

So as banking is evolving, we're looking at different ways to do mortgages online.

We have a whole mortgage platform online.

We have an entire consumer lending platform all online to help individuals get a.

Small business loans, small consumer loan, auto loan, even credit cards.

And so the way that we're looking at it now is, well, how do we partner with foundations that have a lot of resources and leverage the banks money to be impactful?

So typically so a loan loss reserve is a mechanism that a bank can use to leverage capital that it's given for a specific reason.

So let's just say if home ownership is a very important topic for the Cleveland Foundation, the way that I can work is the Cleveland Foundation can give Liberty $5 million.

We hold it in the interest bearing account and then we typically five there.

So we'll do $25 million worth of very aggressive, you know, underwritten mortgage loans to move the needle and have the impact at the end of the day, because we can give money away.

But this is a way to leverage it through a bank.

We're highly regulated.

We know what we're doing when we've been in business for 52 years.

So let us do some of that legwork and don't just I'm not going to say giving money away is bad.

You can do both.

But if you give it to systems or platforms that can leverage it, we can give you your money right back after we use it to get these homeowners season.

So I've looked up statistics on Cleveland.

I think you all are at a 40% homeownership rate, which is pretty low.

And so if, you know, I was told that they have small business owners in here as well as other foundations.

But if you all want to move the needle, even within your own organizations, just take a survey with your employees and your team members and see who owns their own home.

And if that if that percentage is 30% and with, you know, within a 24 month time period, you want to get that from 30 to 50.

Reach out to us.

We would love to be helpful.

And build on that a little bit, too.

Right.

Because we we talk about all the mechanisms at our disposal to create wealth.

And so often where we're in a mindset that we want to be so innovative, we turn our back on some of the effective traditions that have created wealth, wealth and stability.

And so some in here I know the stats already understand it, but but can you, I think double down on in this period of time the need for us to hold on to homeownership as a tool of wealth creation and community stability.

Of homeownership is is pretty much the first step in building wealth for all communities worldwide.

And so it's very important for us to really hone in on how we going to increase homeownership.

And if you look at home ownership and you look at appreciation rates, it's a really good investment you should appreciate in value.

Over time, you can deduct the interest from the mortgage loan on your taxes.

So they have a lot of different benefits, but we see a lot of people sort of not able to enter into the homeownership market because they don't have a down payment or they don't have the closing costs to to close on a home.

And so in our line of work, we see that a lot of communities of color especially kind of get stuck with predatory lending.

So the loans that are $5,000 that are charging and actually your average rate for Ohio for a payday loan is 591%.

That's all for y'all's website.

So and so when you look at that and you see someone paying three or $400 extra per month, that goes to interest payments.

And actually, two thirds of you are those payday loan companies don't don't live in Ohio.

So it's going all out of state.

So we take that simple example, putting $400 or refinancing that individual out of that predatory loan, putting $400 back in their pocket per month without them getting that extra job.

Then you get you could save for the down payment.

You could save for the closing costs.

You can save to open a business.

So really getting into mechanisms and products that move the needle.

That's what we align ourselves with.

And as I.

Like to add just one thing, there are some innovative programs and I have a business partner working to try to bring those to fruition.

But there's some programs that exist now at the Housing Authority.

There's a voucher program that where you can use a voucher to pay down the mortgage, to pay your mortgage.

So think about how powerful and we're trying to upscale that program, but how powerful that is.

So the vouchers are already allotted, but you can allocate the voucher to pay for a mortgage.

And then less than a third of the most of the vouchers would pay for a mortgage on a home up to $250,000.

Well, in Cleveland, we know our housing prices are much lower.

So we could scale that.

And that's that's some of the things that it's a business, but it's it's not philanthropic.

But that's what I mean.

We're moving people.

You can move people from poverty.

We also have to work on the benefits.

Cliff Right.

So once you get an income where you can sustain that mortgage payment, we shouldn't take everything away from you.

Right?

We need to scale you would scale you up.

So that you can continue and then graduate out of the program.

So we'll talk, you know.

Excellent program because we're trying to double down on that exact program.

So Section eight, vouchers being applied to mortgages, loan payments makes all the difference.

We just need to tweak tweak the tweak the program.

The only thing I would add to that is that just think about how important it is for us to start teaching our young people as early as middle school and they can understand these dynamics.

We really do not do a good job of preparing young people to understand what their financial potential could be and what the promise of their financial life could be.

So we have to really evaluate our curriculum and certainly teach the basics to get folks prepared to go on to postsecondary opportunities.

But this kind of work and this kind of education information is going to be so critical for young people to have going.

Forward and really being fearless enough to confront our own ignorance with our children.

Yes.

I have a I have a six year old that made me call my accountant where?

No, I'm dead serious, right in the car.

And he said, Daddy, are you rich?

And I said, We do, okay, but we're working on it.

I said, What made you ask?

He says, Because Garvey and I ask you for stuff and it's expensive and you say yes and buy it.

But it didn't seem like it was part of the plan.

Finished.

So he says, Christ.

And so our children are constantly paying attention to how we spend.

That's right.

What we do with our money.

What we don't do with our money.

And I could have easily been like, boys, shut up and get on that tab.

But I said, you know, I said, Baldwin, you are absolutely right.

I need to buy you less.

But but what what we did two days later was I allowed him to see my line item for unplanned expenditures.

And so now it created a conversation for him to actually have an understanding about this without feeling pressure in any way, shape or form about my money.

And so I love the the education piece, but there's so much of this which is formal through programmatic engagement, but a lot of it is how do we within our families talk about money and what do we open up our babies?

I just I have a quick story.

I'm looking at my daughter and my late husband.

Those of you remember Tony was frugal, but he started the company and my son said, and we've been very blessed.

Very blessed.

My son said one day, Are we poor?

We were 24, 89 Coventry Road.

So why would you ask that?

He said, Because Daddy always says no.

And I asked him for some I don't know George this up and he said, We don't buy designer labels in this house.

And I was like, But all of my friends have designer labels and all your friends.

So that's how, you know, he was frugal.

Invested.

Did you know very, very well.

But we taught them, you know, at an early age, what we deemed it was important.

And as you as you are able to afford it, you can buy whatever you want.

And it took years for my friends are saying, why are you still driving that rusted out.

Out no longer.

Right, but but a time in a season.

So we taught them not frugal.

They're not stingy or cheap.

He was very, very generous, man.

But that was not a value, you know, at that time in our household.

So let me do this.

You know what?

We're about to begin audience Q&A for our livestream and radio audience or those just joining.

I'm Jeff Johnson, managing director at Axiom and MODERATOR for today's conversation.

Joining me at the City Club is Margo Copeland, former bank executive and board member of the Cleveland Foundation.

Tom McDonald, president, second generation leader at Liberty Bank, and Vanessa Whiting, president of Ace Management Corporation.

We welcome all questions from everyone City Club members, guests and those joining via our live stream at City Club Board or Radio broadcast at 89.7 W KSU Ideastream Public Media.

If you'd like to text a question for our speakers, please text it to 3305415794.

That's 3305415794.

And City Club staff will try to work it into the program.

Can we have the first question?

So we have a text question.

What are the different approaches, if any, for millennial adults who are struggled, struggled to build wealth due to the recession and the pandemic and our burden with the largest share of student loan debt.

You want to take that first?

That's going to vary from person to person.

So I'll just say, depending on where that person is, let's say they are based in a place where their organization offers a41k that really is going to be is going to be one of the best places to start to.

If they are not engaged in that program at their company or their business, I would recommend that they do find a way in means even if you have to start with a small percentage and then build up to it, especially if your company has a match, because if you don't save up to the match, you just leave the money on the table.

And trust me, now that someone who retired a few years ago, you want that money, you want that match.

Match, it adds up.

And I'm sorry, Todd.

I know you are interacting with millennials across the board.

And so those who may not be with an organization because they're entrepreneurs or those who are 1099 employees and trying to wage a level of flexibility in how they think about vocation, what are some of the tools or examples that you're seeing for millennials that are taking more of a nontraditional approach to to vocation?

So unfortunately, I see a lot of young professionals, especially in New Orleans.

So we're headquartered in New Orleans, but we operate in 11 different states.

But I do see a lot of young professionals moving to markets where they're being paid more.

So for cities like Cleveland in New Orleans, we typically we're not the most attractive option.

And so a lot of professionals will move to California.

I have a cousin that's moving to Alaska, free childcare, free schooling.

And the salary is is really high.

So there's a way to do it.

Probably not the easiest or the most favorable.

But I also feel like just double down on the 41k plan.

We actually require every single employee that starts at the bank, they're there for one K, it's turned on automatically.

You you literally have to out, up, out.

If, if, if you're with us because we know how important that is and we do a 5% match as well.

And I'd say to that, to those millennials, there's also a step, because if you're working for yourself, you can set up a setup and you can invest whatever you can, whatever you have, you know, do your budget, whatever you have left over.

And it's different and it works like a41k, but no one's, you know, matching you.

Invest in yourself.

Start early the earlier you can start investing.

It doesn't have to be.

Compounding is magic.

Right.

I just told you about my my parents who left, you know, seven figure estate.

They were teachers in in the segregated South.

But what they had, they would invest.

Yes, Cleveland doesn't pay the salaries, but our housing cost is not what is in California.

And think about, you know, you're in an apartment, maybe it's a two family.

You find a two family, you live in one side and you rent out the other side.

There are things even that you can do in Cleveland that you can't do in Chicago.

Right.

Right.

I know that.

You know, my husband, late husband moved from Chicago.

We moved from Chicago to Cleveland.

Right.

What is this?

This is a gold mine.

I'm going to defend Cleveland.

You can invest in Cleveland.

And I don't mean you don't need them in Cleveland.

You can invest in property.

We have rental property.

I have a portfolio of businesses.

Some of you in the room of young people who I've invested in and we're all hoping together that it works out.

But if it doesn't, I only risk what I could lose.

Right.

So find those angel investors.

We're out here.

You know we're not going to give you.

We'll do what we can, you know.

So that's what I would say.

And student loan debt is, you know, Biden's working on it.

And hopefully, whatever happens, they'll continue to work on student loan debt because that is a burden.

Thank you.

Right.

So, first of all, beautiful to see a panel of some of my favorite people.

So thanks for your words.

The thing that I heard from this panel that really resonates with me is the fact that your relationship with money began at an early age.

And if I'm being honest, you also came from a different perspective of, you know, just the environment for those people who don't have that perspective.

And Margot, you said we got to start teaching our young people, start teaching our folks younger.

This is a room full of philanthropists, community leaders, etc.. What are some of the things that we can do to start that process, to really teach people to build the appropriate relationship with money so that they can leave a legacy, that they can be thoughtful and that they're not chasing the dollar.

Because that's what I see today.

I see a lot of people, not just young people, a lot of people chasing the dollar.

So in this room full of people, what are some ideas that we should be thinking about?

Well, you know, Ron, you and I are former colleagues.

And so we could probably list about 12 different programs that we engaged in that would do a drill down on financial literacy and financial education as early as grade school.

So having partners in the educational systems and in schools that were willing to advance that and partner with us, that was part of our philanthropic strategy when we were both doing that type of work.

That's going to be critical when philanthropists have a strategy and a target and in a system they're trying to change.

These are what our dollars are going to.

And this is a transformation want to see.

This is where philanthropy plays a real big part because partners listen to where the money's going and they pay attention.

And if philanthropy basically decides that X is a priority for our community, like a topic of this nature, then philanthropy has a big voice that it can play.

So much of what we did back in our day was really along that line.

And and we had some great successes, some wonderful programs that I might add, still exist today.

There are other examples I could use, but in the interest of time that I won't bother to go into them.

But I do think that drill down to young people, and that's what I meant by education.

The formal part of the education is important because it's a broader reach to more people.

Everyone's not as lucky as Baldwin to live in a family like that, but the children who don't live in homes like that, we really can based less go where they are and, you know, and make sure the public school systems are well equipped and a world resource to deliver this type of work.

And I will say, on behalf of the banks, all of them, I have some great banking partners right in front of me that will work for you should have at some point.

But anyway, you know what?

The banks are in the business of serving the community.

Do not hesitate to go to a bank and tell them what you need as a community citizen, not just what you want as a person, but what you need as a community citizen.

We are chartered to serve the community and to be good representatives and stewards of your resources and then apply them appropriately in the communities where we live and work.

So they have great partners in this room and outside of this room.

And I don't have to tell you, you know this, but these are the kinds of things that you can basically say, let's sit down.

This is an idea I have.

It's a program I have.

I have some people at my church that I want to help that my church has.

We, our kids are learning how to invest in the stock market.

We have a program there now.

We've self-funded ourselves.

But the point is, is that there are big programs, small programs, whatever it is, you have the voice to go and leverage those kinds of opportunities.

You know, with our banking partners and other financial services partners across the community.

Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you for this excellent forum.

When I was a little KeyBank used to be society and we would come on Fridays and bring our little pennies and have students set up and we would be able to, you know, donate money and have a little savings account.

And we did this every Friday like clockwork.

I don't see that happening anymore.

So my question is, can you make that happen or suggest it in our schools?

Because it's really important.

Every year, the Rotary Club does a high school appreciation where we break the students into groups and ask them what their needs are as far as solving issues.

They always are desperate for financial literacy.

So if we start in the elementary, you know, savings accounts and so forth, is that something that could possibly take place?

Now, I guess that's my question.

It's an excellent question.

And I think what we probably have not done a good job on is shining a light on where programs of that nature exists.

I mean, some of these young people actually have portfolios that they're managing.

We will give them X number of dollars to manage that, what have you.

Some of it is their own personal savings.

So some of those programs already exist.

It's about us putting the spotlight on them and then scaling more so that more children have access.

But some of what you're suggesting exists in many of the programs that we funded.

And it's just a matter of, you know, presenting more opportunities for other students to participate.

And I'd like to piggyback on that.

So our bank, we partner with Goal Center.

It's an app.

It's a black fintech out of New York City.

And essentially what it does is it's similar to like the green dot card, but it has games and it gamified educational and financial literacy.

And so if a kid has the app, the parent can set the reward on the app to say, hey, if Baldwin scores a 98, you're going to give him $5.

So it's in it incentivizes the kids to really absorb the information that they're being presented through the app.

They have thousands of these videos.

And so that's that's one way that we're trying to get ahead of it.

I'm not sure if you all's if Ohio is one of the states that's required to do financial literacy now.

But I think there's a little over 20 states now that a formal financial literacy program is going to be mandated.

I also grew up in Cleveland and my parents were immigrants, so I never thought I would ever be in a position to be philanthropic.

But talk about frugality.

I mean, my mother would definitely, you know, win the prize because she lived through the Depression and World War Two and was an immigrant.

So it was a very saving was very important.

And we all worked and even babysitting when I was 11 or 12, she would I would give her half and she would save it for me.

And it really has paid off in more ways than I can ever have imagined.

I also worked in the corporate world.

I had a match on my savings.

6%.

Do you have a question, though?

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

A lot of these my question is, like when I was growing up, we didn't have credit cards.

If you wanted to buy something, you saved up for it.

The only thing I ever saw my parents buy and pay interest on was a mortgage on a house.

That was the goal, you know, and that really was the start in in creating wealth.

But nowadays, everybody's got these credit cards.

I mean, even when I.

Have a question to yeah.

You know, how my question is, I see the young people being lured into like a lot of materialistic, you know, they they don't have delayed gratification.

So how do we get that across to them that using those credit cards, even though you can get a credit card, doesn't mean you you should be using.

You know that.

How do we.

So.

So and it's a great question.

So I think I think there's a couple of layers there.

How are we supporting young people thinking about leveraging versus just spending and not just discipline, but vision?

How are we helping our babies have fiscal discipline.

To step back for 2 seconds, though, and this is critically important to use.

But I also want to say to employers, it's never too late.

So I have 350 employees, but many are in what we would call low wage jobs.

We're trying to skill them up.

But with respect to financial literacy, you know, we have a match on an IRA.

We don't have a401k program, but we have match if you have an IRA.

What I learned is that it's not enough just to say that.

So I brought in KeyBank and other banking partners, some of whom in the room and some brokers, and we had lessons on what this means and to talk about compounding and to show examples because they weren't opening the IRA, you know, if you're leaving money on the table.

And so I just want to say, yes, we have to start with the children, but let's not give up on our employees because they once you explain it and it may take a while because they haven't been exposed to this, they grasp it and they will get some IRAs open.

Not as many as I'd like, but we're going to keep trying.

And to have the financial literacy programs and to bring them into the workplace and to have time to teach.

So that's what it is.

But I think what I liked about our question also, there's a reality that raise a child in a way or he he or she should go and they won't depart from it.

Your point about it never being too late for adults also impacts our children.

And so what what have you all found are any disruptive tactics?

Because one of my concerns is, is demonizing previous generations for operating with information they did not have.

And so have you all seen ways of kind of disrupting how we think about money without necessarily demonizing our parents, our grandparents, for what they did not know?

Well, I want to go back to the credit card thing, because it gets to the demonization.

I mean, if you've ever taken a child to college, you'll notice that outside of what you have to do to register your kid there, there's just a whole slew of financial services organizations that are willing to open up credit card accounts right there for freshmen with no trouble with it.

With 18 year olds and what have you.

So step back as you're packing up, get your kid ready, making sure that they are well equipped with.

This is where the informal conversation goes.

My mother told me, see, this is one credit card that you're going to need.

And she gave me a credit card and she just has one credit card you're going to need for school.

And the only time you use it, if there is a critical emergency, you're not to use it to go buy a hot dog.

You don't even use a book because your books don't care.

So the point is, if you have those rules and parameters, I pass that on to my kids.

We don't need to open up cards because you go to school in Atlanta at Morehouse and Spelman.

No, we don't need to open up cards.

We've got a bank right here that can do back and all of the country.

This is where you do it.

I can check your bank through my bank.

So?

So.

So it's about having those hard, fast food because credit cards really can take our not only young people are low wage earners.

All of the people middle income down a rabbit hole that is so hard to dig out.

And when you have when you have boys, you have to define emergency for them.

You have another tax question I have to.

Audre Lorde said before the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house.

They may allow us to temporarily beat him at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change.

The panel keeps referring to dismantling systems.

What exactly does Dismantling Systems mean to you and how can we create genuine change when living in the Master's House?

There it is.

Yeah.

Well, so no, I mean, it's a it's a beautiful question and there's complexity.

You could have an entire hour conversation just on that.

And you scratch the surface.

But can you all talk a little bit about how are we almost operating like Neo in The Matrix where we're bending the rules to the degree that we can?

And I want you to talk about that a little bit, because I think that's what so many black financial service institutions have had to do, because regulatory is regulatory.

But then if you all could also talk about where there opportunities to be disruptive and challenging and finding new models.

Sure.

So, I mean, I think the the one thing that you'll see, especially with predatory loans, is that they have really good lobbyists.

Yep.

And they pay a ton of money to to to stay in business.

But I do feel like organizations like the Cleveland Foundation and and small business owners and business owners, if, if you kind of come to the table and make sure that they have a cap, let's just start there that that can dismantle billions of dollars that get deployed into our communities that charge the 500% interest rate.

So that's systemic.

I think the Section eight voucher being applied to a principal and interest on a mortgage that is systemic.

The only reason why that program does not, you know, go to the moon is because typically it'll take 90 days to close instead of 30.

You're dealing with a first time homebuyer.

So you have a lot of training.

And then typically those homes are on the lower scale of the price point.

So you're not incentivized as a mortgage originator or a developer to really build that home.

That's 150,000 or 200,000.

Everyone is looking to make the money at the higher end.

And so those are two observations that I.

Don't disagree, but there are partnerships available, community development corporations whose mission is to to uplift the community through affordable housing.

So, yes, absolutely.

Also, the fees are too low for the right.

So they're spending a ton of time and money then that they're not recouping the fees necessary for the program.

And also they're trying to house as many people as you can.

So if I'm trying to house as many people as I can, maybe I look at lease leasing.

But if you're trying to disrupt the system and put people in a position so that they can start to accumulate wealth, home ownership is one vehicle.

That is also one I want to get to.

Our last question is, we've got to be disruptive and innovative in our thinking around providing market driven solutions.

So there's a company called Solo Fund.

Solo Fund is the largest black fintech company in the country.

They've got over a million users, and it's a peer to peer lending platform.

One of the biggest challenges that they're facing is they're so innovative, they're in front of the regulators to to, to.

So to the person's question about how do we start disrupting and carrying our own stuff, it's challenging because one of their biggest competitors are the payday lenders.

Quick question for you all, just in regards to ownership.

You know, we're dealing with a time where at the exit institute estimated that there's approximately 10 million businesses.

They're just supposed to switch hands this decade, as we're talking about baby boomers retiring.

They call it the silver tsunami.

How are you seeing your organizations or other organizations that you all are involved in, encouraging the community.

To not only pursue entrepreneurship, but entrepreneurship through.

Acquisition at a arguably once in a generation time from an opportunity.

Perspective.

Thank you.

So from the banking side, we we love to have clients to walk up and say, hey, I want to buy this business that has a history of 50 years and can show cash flow.

That's the easier loan for us to underwrite than a new business coming out the ground.

So from a underwriting standpoint, the probability of that loan being approved is much, much higher.

We do see a lot of younger professionals have real estate and assets trends transferred to them after their parents pass away.

A lot of questions where they current on taxes, you know, do they have insurance on the properties?

And so, you know, they'll have a $10 million real estate portfolio that does very well, but it's not being managed through QuickBooks.

So, you know, we're trying to just take one step at a time.

And a lot of the younger generations are asking, you know, why didn't they do this?

You know, why did they do it in all cash?

This is making it really tough for me to get financing because everything wasn't documented or they didn't report everything on a tax returns.

So I would encourage any people that want to pursue entrepreneurship.

The easier way is to buy an existing business.

Absolutely.

And there are and I know there are programs right now in Cleveland, Greater Cleveland Partnership has a program.

We're trying to attract entrepreneurs who want to acquire businesses, existing businesses with great track records.

And we're matching we've seen that happen and we've had some met some great success with that but need to scale it up.

Also, there are venture funds now that didn't exist when we were starting our business targeted to Bipoc owners.

So there are a number of resources that exist today that did not exist 30, 40 years ago.

Absolutely.

So.

So I agree with you, young man.

Yes.

Businesses boomers are boomers are retiring.

I see it on some of the for profit boards.

I sit on where we're doing a ton of acquisitions from boomers and their children don't want the business they want the money.

But that that's that that aggressive desires that I, I take it back.

My children are here.

I wouldn't be here without them.

My daughter worked for me for seven years, and now she's starting her own business.

And my son is working for me.

So so he's in the business and also is a developer.

So I take it back.

But it was it took a while for them to see the light.

Right.

But, but, but I actually think that's a great place for us to to to transition this conversation.

I mean, so whether we're talking about philanthropy, talking about business or finance, creating opportunities to build either generational wealth through transfer, whether that's life insurance, whether that's our homes through philanthropy or through businesses.

However, one of the greatest legacies we live to help leave to help create generational wealth is is raising independently thinking children who saw problems.

That's right.

And when you raise independently thinking children who solve problems, even if they don't want to solve the same problem you did, you've prepare them to develop problems that their generations need solved.

And so I want to say thank you to all who are in the audience that represent institutional infrastructure in this city to do just that to our panelist, but also to those that understand it, whether it's one on one with the relationships you have or through the institutions that our children are the greatest legacy that we leave behind hands down, whether they are biologically yours or communally yours.

So thank you so much to this panel.

And to the city.

And thank you, Jeff Johnson, for your excellent moderating of our conversation today.

Jeff is joined on stage four for our radio audience.

Jeff is joined on stage by Margo Copeland, Todd McDonald and Vanessa Whiting.

I'm Dave Meltzer, chief executive here at the City Club, reminding you that forums like this one are made possible by people just like you, including many of you who are here today.

You can learn more about how to become a guardian of free speech at City Club dot org.

Our forum today is part of our Building Success series, which we present in collaboration with Huntington Bank.

We would like to thank today's programing, partner of the African-American Philanthropy Committee at the Cleveland Foundation, for helping us with today's forum.

If you want to find out more about their work and the summit they're convening this weekend, you can find out more at the Cleveland Foundation's website.

Thank you very much to Huntington and the Cleveland Foundation.

Up next to the city club on Friday, April 19th, we welcome Jeremy Johnson.

He's president and CEO of Assembly for the Arts.

That's part of our local Heroes series.

He'll be in conversation with Rhonda Brown, the senior strategist for the arts, culture and the Creative Economy with the city of Cleveland.

You can get tickets and learn more about upcoming forms at City Club dot org.

That brings us to the end of our forum today.

Thank you all so much for being a part of this.

Our forum is now adjourned.

Have a wonderful weekend.

For information on upcoming speakers or for podcasts of the City Club, go to City Club dot org.

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