TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: IN THE NEXT HOUR, A PREVIEW OF A "FRONTLINE" DOCUMENTARY ON THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

WE HEAR FROM A PAIR OF RETIRING LAWMAKERS ABOUT CHANGING CAPITOL CULTURE.

WE HAVE A DELIGHTFUL DAVID GILLETTE ESSAY, TOO.

THEN MARY LAHAMMER TELLS US ABOUT PERHAPS THE MOST POPULAR BILL AT THE CAPITOL THIS YEAR.

>> Mary: THE GOVERNOR HELD A UNIQUE BILL SIGNING FOR SOMETHING THAT DID GET DONE IN THE FINAL HOURS OF SESSION.

WE'LL HAVE THE STORY -- >> THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

IT WAS SMART AND WELL THOUGHT OUT.

>> >> THIS IS A GOOD THING THAT WE WORKED A LONG TIME ON.

IT WILL MAKE A LOT OF MINNESOTANS HAPPY.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

"ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO TWENTY-EIGHT MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

ENBRIDGE: CONNECTING MINNESOTANS WITH ENERGY FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINE3US.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

ONE GREATER MINNESOTA REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION, WORKING TO STRENGHTEN RURAL MINNESOTA.

>> ERIC: IN JUST A FEW MINUTES, WE'LL PREVIEW THE "FRONTLINE" DOCUMENTARY ON POLICING TWO YEARS AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.

BUT FIRST UP IN THE HOUR, ANOTHER MESSY END TO THE MINNESOTA LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> CATHY: ONCE AGAIN, STATE LAWMAKERS MISSED THE FINAL DEADLINE TO WRAP UP THEIR WORK DURING THE REGULAR LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

AND AS OF NOW, THERE ARE NO PLANS TO CALL THEM BACK INTO SPECIAL SESSION TO FINISH PASSING A TAX CUT, NURSING HOME AID, AND A HOST OF OTHER BILLS LEFT IN LIMBO.

HERE WITH A CANDID TAKE, TWO LONGTIME LAWMAKERS WHO ARE RETIRING THIS YEAR.

SENATOR DAVE SENJEM IS WRAPPING UP TWO DECADES REPRESENTING ROCHESTER.

FELLOW SENATOR PATRICIA TORRES RAY FROM MINNEAPOLIS IS IN HER 16TH AND FINAL YEAR IN THE LEGISLATURE.

IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

WELCOME BACK ONE MORE TIME TO THE COUCH.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: SENATOR SENJEM, GIVE US KIND OF YOUR VIEW.

WHY DIDN'T A DEAL COME TOGETHER AT THE END?

IT WAS CLOSE.

>> IT'S ALWAYS CLOSE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE TOO MUCH MONEY, TOO MANY PEOPLE AND TOO MANY IDEAS.

HA!!

BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKED VERY HARD, I MEAN, IT CERTAINLY WASN'T, YOU KNOW, ANY STALLING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, FRANKLY, PROBABLY A LOT OF WHAT I JUST SAID, A LOT OF MONEY, A LOT OF IDEAS, YOU KNOW, AND THE IDEAS ARE CLASHING AND THEY DIDN'T QUITE COME TOGETHER.

BUT I DON'T THINK IN TOO MANY RESPECT THEY'RE TOO FAR APART.

WE'LL SEE HOW THIS SUMMER GOES AND WHERE IT GOES WITH RESPECT TO, YOU KNOW, COMING BACK OR MAYBE -- I DON'T KNOW, WORK GROUPS BUT I GOT A HUNCH THIS IS ALL GOING TO GET WORKED OUT.

I'VE BEEN HERE 20 YEARS, IT ALWAYS GETS WORKED OUT SO WHY WOULDN'T IT THIS YEAR?

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK EXPECTATIONS GIVEN THE SIZE OF THE SURPLUS, EXPECTATIONS WERE MAYBE TOO HIGH FOR THIS SESSION?

>> I THINK ELECTIONS GOT UNDERWAY MORE THAN THE EXPECTATIONS.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE AN ELECTION, PEOPLE ARE EING INDOORS AND WE HEARD, YOU KNOW, MANY OF THE MAJORITY MEMBERS SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS OPPONENT, WE HAVE OUR, YOU KNOW, ELECTION COMING UP AND THESE ENDORSEMENTS COMING UP.

I ACTUALLY TALKED TO A EW MEMBERS ABOUT DRIVER'S LICENSES AND THEY WERE KIND OF OPEN TO HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT DRIVER'S LICENSES AND THEN THEY SAID, WELL, THE ENDORSEMENTS ARE KIND OF HAPPENING SO WE'LL TALK AND WE NEVER DID.

>> Eric: LET ME BUILD ON THIS BECAUSE IN YOUR FAREWELL SPEECH, SENATOR, 7,706 DAYS OF SERVICE, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE PARTIES GETTING IN THE WAY OF GOOD POLICY AND YOU EVEN QUESTIONED OUR 50 YEARS OF DESIGNATION IN THE LEGISLATURE, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, CAN YOU FLESH OUT THAT A LITTLE BIT, WHY ARE HE POLITICS OVERTAKING THE POLICY?

>> WELL, BECAUSE I THINK BOTH SIDES HAVE GOTTEN A LITTLE EXTREME AND I THINK SENATOR TORRES RAY WOULD PROBABLY AGREE WITH THAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WENT 114 YEARS WITH NONPARTISAN LEGISLATURE, AND THE LAST 50 WE WERE A PARTISAN LEGISLATURE.

ARE WHICH BETTER OFFER FOR IT?

I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT BUT WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, COULD WE POSSIBLY COME UP HERE JUST WITH OUR OWN IDENTITY AND IDEAS AND COULD WE OSSIBLY MAKE THIS -- MAKE MINNESOTA WORK THAT WAY?

I KIND OF THINK SO BUT THAT'S NOT -- THAT'S A BIG DEAL, THAT WON'T CHANGE SOON BUT IT'S WORTH TALKING ABOUT, BUT, AGAIN, EXTREMES ON BOTH SIDES AND TRYING TO FIND THE MIDDLE IS A LITTLE HARDER.

>> Eric: SENATOR TORRES RAY, 5,619 DAYS FOR YOU.

>> SO MANY DAYS.

[Laughter] >> Eric: NOW, YOU SAID IN YOUR SPEECH ON THE FLOOR, FAREWELL SPEECH, THAT THE SENATE SHOULD BE A VOICE FOR THE POOR AND THE MARGINALIZED.

AND I WONDER WHAT'S KEEPING IN THE WAY F THAT?

WHY ISN'T THAT HAPPENING MORE TO YOUR LIKING?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT HE THE SPECIAL INTERESTS ACTUALLY HAVE A LOT OF INFLUENCE IN THE WORK THAT WE DO, AND MORE AND MORE, YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF CLOSE THE DOOR AND THE PANDEMIC EVEN CLOSED THE DOOR EACH MORE.

YOU KNOW, WHO HAS ACCESS AND WHO HAS INFORMATION ABOUT THE WORK THAT WE DO?

I AM HOPEFUL, I DO THINK THAT A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE, A LOT OF ACTIVISTS ARE REALLY ENCOURAGING THE PARTICIPATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE AT THE LEGISLATURE.

THEY ARE COMING, WE HAVE A LOT OF RALLIES HAPPENING SO THAT HELPS A LOT, YOU KNOW, THAT HELPS US BRING US CLOSER TO PEOPLE BUT I DO THINK THAT WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO IN TERMS OF REALLY EXPOSING OUR WORK, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE AND MAKING SURE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE DECISIONS THAT WE MAKE.

IT'S ERY INTERESTING, YOU KNOW, I HAD A VERY ENGAGED DISTRICT AND IT'S VERY INTERESTING THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, AND, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, THEY WERE JUST LIKE, ARE YOU GOING BACK TO SESSION?

WHAT HAPPENED?

DID YOU MAKE NIDHI SIGNIFICANCES?

WHAT HAPPENED WITH SOME OF THE BILLS THAT ACTUALLY YOU AGREE ON, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE VERY CONFUSED.

>> Cathy: YEAH, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY.

NOW, I UNDERSTAND THE G.O.P.

CAUCUS MET YESTERDAY.

>> YES.

>> Cathy: SO WHAT -- CAN YOU SPILL THE BABIES HERE?

WHAT WILL COME OF THIS?

I MEAN, DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THERE WILL BE A SPECIAL SESSION?

>> WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW -- IF E DO, IT WILL HAVE TO GET, I BELIEVE, WORKED OUT, MAYBE THESE BILLS AHEAD OF TIME AND THAT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME, NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

AND IT'S HARD.

I MEAN, THE DIFFERENCES IN SOME RESPECT ARE PRETTY HARD.

WITH RESPECT TO LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE WANT POLICE, THE OTHER SIDE IS MORE IN THE -- YOU KNOW, THE POLICING SOCIAL ASPECTS AND USING SOCIAL WORKERS IN A POLICE KIND OF ROLE AND THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE AND, YOU KNOW, FOR US TO POLICE -- AND WE'VE LOST SO MANY POLICE OFFICERS ACROSS MINNESOTA, WE'RE NOT GROWING THEM IN COMMUNITY COLLEGES ANY MORE LIKE WE USED TO, SO THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF THINGS THAT REALLY SEPARATE US AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO COME TOGETHER WITH THAT VERY EASY.

>> Cathy: 'M WONDERING, SO MANY LAWMAKERS ARE RETIRING THIS SESSION AND A LOT OF WELL-KNOWN DEAL-MAKERS ARE LEAVING THE CAPITOL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN NEXT SESSION?

>> YOU KNOW, I'M ACTUALLY AGAINST DEAL-MAKING.

[Laughter] I SAID THIS TO TOM BAKK VERY OFTEN, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A GENDER ISSUE RELATED TO DEAL-MAKING, YOU KNOW, AND IT IS VERY WELL-STUDIED THAT WOMEN WORK IN TRANSFORMATIONAL POLICY, WANT TO SEE KIND OF THIS COMMON GOOD, YOU KNOW, CHANGE IN EDUCATION, HOW DO WE MAKE EDUCATION AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE, HOW DO WE MAKE, YOU KNOW, HEALTH CARE AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE.

GUYS, LIKE, MAKE DEALS, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST LIKE WE'RE GOING DO THE STADIUM, YOU DO THIS FOR ME, DO THIS FOR YOU SO, I DON'T KNOW.

THERE'S A LOT OF APPRECIATION FOR DEALS AT THE LEGISLATURE BUT I JUST FEEL THAT THERE IS A NEED FOR WORKING TOWARDS THE COMMON GOOD AND DOING TRANSFORMATIONAL POLICY THAT, REALLY, YOU KNOW, DEALS WITH THE MOST CHALLENGING ISSUES WE FACE.

YOU KNOW, THE DISPARITIES THAT EXIST IN MINNESOTA THAT HAVE BEEN ERSISTENT FOR SO MANY YEARS.

>> Eric: YOU REALLY TOOK THE ENERGY ISSUE ON.

>> I DID.

YES, I D. >> Eric: I WONDER, DO WE HAVE A CLEAR PATH ON THAT OR IS THERE STILL STATIC AND FRICTION OVER THE RIGHT WAY TO GO?

>> WELL, THE WORLD HAS A DIRECTION ALREADY AND CAN THE LEGISLATURE KEEP UP WITH IT, REALLY, I MEAN, WE'RE IN AN ENERGY TRANSFORMATION ACROSS THIS WORLD ND ACROSS THIS COUNTRY AND ACROSS MINNESOTA.

AND IT WILL HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY MANY OF OUR UTILITIES WILL BE CLOSED DOWN IN ABOUT 12 TO 15 YEARS, AND SO THEN WHAT?

I MEAN, WE HAVE TO HAVE AN ANSWER AND LEGISLATIVELY WE REALLY DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER RIGHT NOW.

IT'S -- FITS A LIGHTS OUT IN 2033, THAT'S NOT GOOD SO WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK DO IN THIS AREA AND A LOT OF PLANNING AND FRANKLY PERHAPS A LOT OF LEGISLATION TO GO ALONG WITH IT SO IT'S AN EXCITING AREA.

I'M VERY INVOLVED IN IT, VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT AND MAYBE AS I ATTENTION FORWARD, MAYBE THERE IS A PLACE -- AS I GO FORWARD, MAYBE THERE IS A PLACE IN THIS LITTLE PATH.

>> Eric: GOES WITHOUT SAYING WE APPRECIATE YOUR SERVES AND GLAD FOR IT AND GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK ON THE "ALMANAC" COUCH.

>> Cathy: HOPE TO HAVE YOU BACK.

THANK YOU.

>> Eric: THANKS.

♪♪ >> ERIC: IT WAS ON MEMORIAL DAY TWO YEARS AGO WHEN A MINOR ARREST IN SOUTH MINNEAPOLIS TURNED INTO A POLICE MURDER.

AND THE TWIN CITIES BECAME THE FOCUS OF A GLOBAL CONVERSATION ON RACE AND POLICING.

THE ACCLAIMED PBS DOCUMENTARY SERIES "FRONTLINE" HAS TEAMED UP WITH THE "STAR TRIBUNE" TO TELL THE STORY OF THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD AND ITS AFTERMATH.

"POLICE ON TRIAL" IS THE NAME OF THE DOCUMENTARY AND IT WILL AIR TUESDAY NIGHT ON TPT AND MANY OTHER PBS STATIONS.

WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT A CLIP FROM THE DOCUMENTARY AND TALK TO ITS CREATORS.

FILMMAKER MIKE SHUM IS THE DIRECTOR, AND WRITER, OF "POLICE ON TRIAL."

HE LIVES IN THE TWIN CITIES.

FILMMAKER MARCIA ROBIOU IS THE -- GOOD I GET THAT RIGHT?

OH, GOOD.

SHE'S THE PRODUCER OF THE DOCUMENTARY.

SHE'LL JOIN US BY ZOOM.

WE'LL START WITH MIKE.

THERE IS A PHRASE IN THE JOURNALISM BUSINESS, GIVE IT THE "FRONTLINE" TREATMENT.

DID THIS PARTICULARLY LEND ITSELF TO THIS?

>> I THINK WHAT "FRONTLINE" LIKES TO DO HERE OR AT LEAST HERE, TO ASSUMED DUMPED OUT OF THE SITUATION WE ALL KNEW TO BE GEORGE DEPLOYED'S AREA, SO WE WERE TAKING A LONGITUDINAL APPROACH AND UNDERSTANDING A FULL SCOPE OF WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN TO MINNEAPOLIS SINCE GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER.

>> Cathy: MARCIA, I WANT TO BRING YOU IN AND ALK ABOUT THE PARTNERSHIP WITH THE "STRIB" BUT FIRST I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP FROM THE DOC, IF WE COULD.

THIS IS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF IT.

LET'S ROLL.

>> I WAS HORKING A HOLIDAY -- I WAS WORKING A HOLIDAY SHIFT AND GOT A CRYPTIC TEXT FROM A POLICE PERSON TELLING ME ABOUT A NEWS CONFERENCE OUTSIDE CITY HALL.

I WENT DOWN THERE -- >> OFFICERS WERE ABLE TO GET THE SUSPECT INTO HANDCUFFS AND REALIZED THAT THE SUSPECT WAS SUFFERING A MEDICAL DISTRESS.

OFFICERS CALLED FOR AN AMBULANCE AND WAS TRANSPORTED TO HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER WHERE HE DIED A SHORT TIME LATER.

>> I WAS POSTING REGULAR UPDATES ON TWITTER, SAYING THAT THERE WERE ALL SORTS OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS INCIDENT.

IT WAS AROUND THAT TIME THAT SOMEONE ON TWITTER, A FOLLOWER OF MINE SAID, HEY, THERE IS A VIDEO THAT'S FLOATING AROUND OUT THERE, YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK IT OUT.

IT WAS PRETTY IS YOUR REAL BECAUSE IT SEEMED TO DIRECTLY CONTRADICT WHAT THE INITIAL POLICE ACCOUNT SAID.

THERE WAS NO MENTION OF BEING PINNED UNDER AN OFFICER'S KNEE.

TOOK ME A SECOND TO SORT OF PROCESS WHAT I WAS WATCHING... ♪♪ YOU REALIZE THAT THERE'S FAR MORE TO THIS CASE THAN THEY INITIALLY LET ON.

IT RAISED A LOT OF DOUBT OR QUESTIONS IN PEOPLE'S MINDS OF HOW MANY OTHER INCIDENTS IN THE PAST HAD BEEN SHAPED OR SANITIZED BY THE COPS.

>> Cathy: MARCIA, I WANT TO THROW THIS QUESTION TO YOU AS THE PRODUCER OF THE DOCUMENTARY.

I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING YOU PARTNERED UP WITH THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

>> ELL, PBS "FRONTLINE" HAS A LOCAL JOURNALISM INITIATIVE AND I KNOW "FRONTLINE" RECEIVED MANY APPLICATIONS FOR THAT INITIATIVE AND I KNOW I WASN'T PART OF THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS BUT I CAN DEFINITELY SAY, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE BENEFITS OF OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH THE "STAR TRIBUNE" AND I THINK FOR ME, YOU KNOW, POLICING HAS BECOME SUCH A DIVISIVE ISSUE AND IT'S EASY TO KIND OF BOIL IT DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, THESE REALLY BASIC ELEMENTS BUT IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR US TO SHOW A HOLISTIC VIEW OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND POLICING IN MINNEAPOLIS AND I THINK WE WERE REALLY ABLE TO DO THAT WITH THE "STAR TRIBUNE" BECAUSE EACH REPORTER HAS THEIR OWN BEAT, HAS THEIR OWN AREA OF EXPERTISE, YOU KNOW.

LIZ IS COVERING HE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL AND JAMIE IS WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND I THINK IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO SHOW THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS OF THE SYSTEM WHICH GO INTO POLICING AND PUBLIC SAFETY AND WE'RE REALLY ABLE TO DO THAT WITH THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

>> Eric: I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE WONDERED OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, WHAT IF THERE WAS NO CELLPHONE VIDEO OF THE INCIDENT AND I WONDER IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW COMPELLING AND HOW A MAJOR DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS TO HAVE THAT VIDEO?

>> I MEAN, CERTAINLY THERE WERE LIKELY MANY INCIDENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY OVER THE YEARS THAT HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT VIDEO AND SO I THINK WHEN THIS WAS RECORDED, I THINK IT REALLY SORT OF CHALLENGED PEOPLE TO REALLY THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO, AS LABORE SAID, POSSIBLY SANITIZE THESE VENT TO CLEAR HAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR WAS BEING SORT OF AUTHORIZED OR AT LEAST CLEARED BY THE SUPERVISOR IN SITUATIONS LIKE THESE.

>> Cathy: I KNOW YOU INTERVIEWED SEVERAL FORMER MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICERS AND SEVERAL WERE PRETTY HIGH RANKING.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE MPD CULTURE FROM THEM?

>> A LOT.

AND THERE WAS A LOT THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO THE FILM, AS WELL.

WE SPOKE WITH A LOT OF OFFICERS WHO, IN THEIR MINDS, WOULD SAY I THOUGHT I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING BY FLAGGING WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE, FOR EXAMPLE, OR A TOXIC WORK ENVIRONMENT.

AND THEY WERE GENERALLY SURPRISED WHEN THEY WERE NOT SUPPORTED IN THAT PROCESS.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING I HEARD ACROSS THE BOARD WITH, YOU KNOW, THE HALF A DOZEN OR SO INTERVIEWS THAT I DID WITH FORMER OFFICERS, WHETHER ON - BACKGROUND OR ON CAMERA.

>> Cathy: WAS IT DIFFICULT TO TALK WITH THEM?

WERE THEY RETICENT?

>> YES, I'VE NEVER BEEN GRILLED AS MUCH AS I HAVE BY THESE FORMER OFFICERS.

THEY REALLY WANTED TO CHECK OUT MY CREDENTIALS, WHAT MY ANGLE WAS.

ONE OF THEM ASKED TO SPEAK WITH MY EDITOR AT "FRONTLINE" TO MAKE SURE THAT I WAS GENUINE AND LEGITIMATE, AND THAT'S VALID, YOU KNOW, BUT WE ALSO HAD THE BENEFIT OF TIME WORKING ON THIS, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, MIKE FOR TWO YEARS, BUT FOR SOME OF THESE OFFICE YEARS, IT TOOK EIGHT MONTHS OR MORE TO GET THEM TO A PLACE WHERE THEY FELT COMFORTABLE SPEAKING WITH US ON HE RECORD.

>> Eric: MIKE, I THINK ALONG WITH THE VIDEO, THE CITIZEN VIDEO, THE OTHER THING THAT KIND OF REVERB BRAIDED AROUND THE NATION WAS THE "DEFUND THE POLICE" DECLARATION BY THE CITY COUNCIL THAT DAY IN POWDERHORN PARK.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT AS FAR AS BEING INFLUENTIAL AROUND THE COUNTRY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WELL, AT LEAST FOR US, FROM THE GET-GO, THAT MOMENT IS PROBABLY WHAT KICKED OFF THE GENERAL IDEAS ABOUT, WELL, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE CITY.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THE SPIRIT OF WHERE THE MOMENTUM WAS COMING FROM TO MAKE THIS FILM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

YOU KNOW, ON TOP OF THAT, YOU HAD EVERY CITY LOOKING AT THE SITUATION AND REFLECTING ON THEIR OWN POLICING, THEIR OWN SYSTEM, EVERY -- YOU KNOW, EVERY CITY HAS HAD CHALLENGES WITH WHETHER THAT'S THE BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT, OAKLAND AND NEW ORLEANS AND NEW YORK, EVERY CITY HAS HAD TO SORT OF REEVALUATE OR REEXAMINE THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Cathy: MARCIA, I'M KIND OF CURIOUS, A DOCUMENTARY LIKE THIS, YOU SHOT A LOT OF VIDEO, YOU TALKED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

BUT WHAT STORIES WERE LEFT BEHIND THAT YOU THINK YOU REALLY WANTED TO PUT IN THAT DOC THAT ARE ON THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR RIGHT NOW?

>> OH, GOSH... [Laughter] OH, IT'S ALWAYS DIFFICULT IN ANY DOCUMENTARY TO HAVE TO LEAVE SOME CHARACTERS OUT, LEAVE SOME INTERVIEWS OUT.

YOU KNOW, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH ART KNIGHT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO IS A DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF WHO ENDED UP UP LEAVING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR A COMMENT HE MADE TO THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

WE ALSO INTERVIEWED COLLEEN RYAN WHO WAS NOTHER FORMER OFFICER WHO LEFT AFTER SHE, YOU KNOW, COMPLAINED ABOUT TOXIC CULTURE IN THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THERE ARE SOME SCENES WITH ANGELA HARRELSON, WHEN SHE FIRST WENT TO GEORGE FLOYD'S LAST APARTMENT FOR THE FIRST TIME AND MIKE SHUM WAS THERE FILMING WITH HER AS SHE GOES AROUND AND SEES WHERE HE LEFT HIS SHOES AND HIS SHOES ARE ACTUALLY STILL THERE, WHICH WAS A REALLY TOUCHING MOMENT, SO THERE'S TOO MUCH TO COUNT BUT THOSE ARE THE THREE THAT COME TO MIND.

>> Cathy: HAVE TO ASK YOU BOTH THIS QUESTION.

BECAUSE YOU SPENT SO MUCH TIME ON THIS PROJECT, I MEAN, MIKE, YOU WERE DOING IT FOR TWO YEARS, A YEAR AND A HALF FOR YOU, MARCIA, HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT EMOTIONALLY TO DO THIS WORK?

MIKE, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU.

>> I MEAN, PUBLIC SAFETY IS JUST GENERALLY A VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC AND I THINK ESPECIALLY THE APPROACH THAT I LIKE TO TAKE WITH FILM AND OBSERVATIONAL APPROACH, I LIKE TO GET REALLY CLOSE WITH PEOPLE AND, FRANKLY SPEAKING, OVER THE COURSE OF TWO YEARS, I CARE BOUT THE PEOPLE IN FILMING.

AND THE STAKES ARE HIGH FOR SO MANY OF THESE PEOPLE SO IT'S DIFFICULT, STRESSFUL, BUT THROUGH THIS TIME, IT'S HARD NOT TO CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THESE PEOPLE THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH FOR SO LONG.

>> Cathy: MARCIA?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I DEFINITELY SECOND THAT.

IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT AND I WOULD SAY, SPECIALLY IN THE EDIT ROOM WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD TO WATCH CUTS OF THIS FILM, PUTTING THESE SCENES TOGETHER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND ESPECIALLY WATCHING SOME OF THE MORE DIFFICULT BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE, AND HAVING TO WATCH IT WITH, YOU KNOW, INTENSE CONCENTRATION, O LET'S CUT THIS SECOND OR WHATEVER.

THAT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HUMANS AND, YOU KNOW, SEEING THESE TRAUMATIZING INCIDENTS OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS DIFFICULT.

>> Eric: "POLICE ON TRIAL" NEXT WEEK.

GREAT WORK, YOU TOO.

WE'LL SEE WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU GUYS.

ALL THE BEST.

THANKS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

>> THERE WILL BE A BIG HISTORY OF HEAVY-HANDED VIOLENCE.

>> AN INVESTIGATION FROM MINNEAPOLIS ON "FRONTLINE," THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.

>> A COMBUSTIBLE SITUATION.

>> TO THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN.

>> CERTAINLY NOT PART OF OUR ETHICS OR VALUES.

>> WE CAN AND SHOULD ABOLISH OUR CURRENT MINNEAPOLIS POLICE SYSTEM.

>> APPEARS TUESDAY, MAY 31st, ONLY ON PBS.

>> CATHY: THIS WEEK, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO ESTABLISH A NATIONAL DATABASE ON POLICE MISCONDUCT.

MEANWHILE, CONGRESS HAS TRIED AND FAILED TO PASS THE GEORGE FLOYD JUSTICE IN POLICING ACT.

HERE IN MINNESOTA, LEGAL CASES ARE ONGOING FOR THE FOUR OFFICERS CHARGED AND FOUND GUILTY FOR THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD.

TO GET A BETTER SENSE OF HOW THE LEGAL SYSTEM HAS CHANGED, AND HOW IT HASN'T, IN THE PAST TWO YEARS, WE ARE ONCE AGAIN JOINED BY SHANNON PRINCE.

SHE'S A LAWYER IN PRIVATE PRACTICE IN NEW YORK CITY.

SHE FOLLOWS POLICING ISSUES CLOSELY.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, SHANNON.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Cathy: HAS THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER AND THE CHAUVIN VERDICT MOVED THE NEEDLE ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL WHEN IT COMES TO POLICING AND THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP BECAUSE OF WHAT'S HAPPENED?

>> IT HAS.

SINCE GEORGE FLOYD WAS MURDERED, OVER 150 STATES AND TOWNS HAVE BANNED CHOKEHOLDS, OVER ANOTHER 50 STATES HAVE BANNED NO-KNOCK WARRANTS.

IN MINNESOTA, AFTER THE MURDER AND THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH, WE SAW ACTIVISTS SEEKING TO DISMANTLE OR DEFUND THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT THERE WERE SIGNIFICANT REFORMS AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.

MINNESOTA BANS CHOCK HOLDS, MINNEAPOLIS BANS NO-KNOCK WARRANTS.

THERE WAS A COMMUNITY SAFETY AND VIOLENCE PREVENTION RESOLUTION THAT ENACTS EFORMS SUCH AS ALLOWING CIVILIAN INSIGHT AND PARTICIPATION INTO OFFICER COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS, CREATING AN UNARMED DEPARTMENT TO HANDLE NON-CRIME INCIDENTS SUCH AS MENTAL HEALTH CRISES AND CREATING AN UNARMED FORCE TO HANDLE TRAFFIC STOPS.

SO WHAT WE'RE SEEING AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT, NATIONAL, STATE AND LOCAL, A MOVEMENT TOWARD CREATING POLICIES THAT MAKE POLICING SAFER.

>> Eric: ARE JURIES LOOKING ALL THE POLICE MISCONDUCT DIFFERENTLY, DO YOU THINK OR IS THAT HARD TO JUDGE?

THEY'RE LOOKING AT IT VERY DIFFERENTLY.

BEFORE GEORGE FLOYD WAS MURDERED, IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET JURORS TO CONVICT POLICE OFFICERS.

THEY TENDED TO GIVE POLICE OFFICERS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND ALSO, POLICE OFFICERS TEND TO BE VERY STRONG WITNESSES BECAUSE TESTIFYING IN COURT IS PART OF THEIR OB.

BUT NOW THE PUBLIC KNOWS THAT THE POLICE, LIKE OTHER -- ANY OTHER ENTITY SHOULDN'T BE GIVEN AUTOMATIC TRUST AND THEY'VE LEARNED THAT FROM INCIDENT SUCH AS THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT RELEASING A STATEMENT IN THE IMMEDIATE WAKE OF GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH THAT HE HAD DIED IN A MEDICAL INCIDENT WHEN WOULD HE NOW KNOW HE WAS MURDERED AND POLICE TESTIMONY IS INCREASING LIE TEMPERED BY FILM EVIDENCE, WHETHER FROM A BODY CAMERA OR A CELLPHONE.

THAT HAS MADE JURIES MUCH MORE READY TO CONVICT JURIES.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN OUR IN YOU BEEN DATIVE FORMS OF PROSECUTION, WHERE NOW WHEN A POLICE OFFICER IS CHARGED, INSTEAD OF THE LOCAL PROSECUTOR WHO REGULARLY WORKS WITH THAT POLICE EPARTMENT BEING ALLOWED TO DECIDE WHETHER OR WHAT CHARGES TO BRING, IT'S AN ALTERNATIVE PROSECUTION SO IT WILL BE THE PROSECUTORS OF ANOTHER COUNTY, IT MAYBE THE ATTORNEY ENERAL, SO WHAT WE SEE IS AN INCREASING ACCOUNTABILITY WHERE THERE'S MORE NEUTRALITY BECAUSE YOU HAVE PROSECUTORS WHO AREN'T THE ONES WHO USUALLY WORK WITH POLICE IN CHARGE OF DECIDING WHETHER AND WHAT CHARGES TO BRING.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, YOU HAD AN -- INITIALLY A PRETTY IMPRESSIVE LIST OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN THE PAST TWO YEARS SINCE GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER, BUT I WAS TALKING TO A COUPLE COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS IN GREATER MINNESOTA THIS WEEK AND THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THIS INITIAL GREAT BURST OF ENERGY AROUND SYSTEMIC RACISM AND TRYING TO BREAK DOWN SOME OF THE BARRIERS THERE, ALSO AROUND POLICING AND THEY FEEL THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME LOSS OF MOMENTUM.

WHAT'S YOUR READ ON THAT?

>> WELL, THERE HAS BEEN A BIT OF OSS AND WE CAN SEE THAT IN REFORMS THAT ONE MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED TO TAKE PLACE THAT AREN'T OCCURRED.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, DEREK CHAUVIN AT THE TIME HE MURDERED GEORGE FLOYD WAS A TRAINING OFFICER.

WE NOW KNOW THAT ONE IN THREE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT TRAINING OFFICERS HAVE A HISTORY OF MISCONDUCT, OR HAVE BEEN NAMED IN THE LAWSUITS THAT HAVE COST THE CITY $34 MILLION.

AND KEEP IN MIND, THAT DEREK CHAUVIN HAD 17 COMPLAINTS AGAINST HIM BEFORE HE MURDERED GEORGE FLOYD.

NOW, THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS SAID THAT IT WILL REVIEW THE PROFESSIONAL HISTORIES OF OFFICERS WHO APPLY TO BE TRAINERS BUT RIGHT NOW, IT HEAD OF TRAINING FOR THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT, DAVID GARMIN, IS A MAN WHO HAS A HISTORY OF MISCONDUCT.

>> Cathy: BEFORE WE GO, WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT, THE NEXT STEPS, ISN'T THERE A D.O.J.

REPORT COMING OUT THAT WE NEED TO WATCH FOR?

>> THAT'S RIGHT, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS LOOKING INTO THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT TO SEE IF THE DEPARTMENT IS IN VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW.

IF IT IS, IT WILL LIKELY SEEK A CONSENT DECREE THAT WILL IMPOSE COURT-ORDERED REFORMS ON THE DEPARTMENT.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Eric: THANKS, SHANNON.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Eric: YOU BET.

♪♪ >> CATHY: THERE'S A BANK IN OWATONNA THAT IS CONSIDERED ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S MOST SIGNIFICANT PIECES OF ARCHITECTURE.

IT WAS CALLED THE NATIONAL FARMER'S BANK AND BUILT IN 1908.

PART OF THE PRAIRIE SCHOOL DESIGN MOVEMENT, IT'S PERHAPS THE GREATEST COLLABORATION BETWEEN ARCHITECTS LOUIS SULLIVAN AND GEORGE ELMSLIE.

REPORTER KAOMI LEE WENT TO STEELE COUNTY THIS SPRING AND PAID A VISIT.

>> THERE IS A BUILDING IN OWATONNA THAT LOOKS LIKE JEWELL BOX, ARCHED WINDOWS, WARM, TERRA COTTA FLOURISHES, NOT AFRAID OF COLOR.

NOT A WELLS FARGO BANK BUT IT STARTED OUT UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME.

>> THERE IS NO MORE SIGNIFICANT BUILDING IN THE UNITED STATES.

THIS IS ONE OF PROBABLY THE TOP 10 MOST IMPORTANT BUILDINGS IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY, AND THAT IS BECAUSE OF LOUIS SULLIVAN.

>> SULLIVAN WAS A BRASH ARCHITECT IN CHICAGO WHO WAS ALL ABOUT ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT ARCHITECTURE.

HE HAD SOME SUCCESSES, AND ALSO PROBLEMS WITH MONEY AND DRINKING.

BUT SULLIVAN'S IDEAS FOUND A FAN IN AN OWATONNA BANKER NAMED CARL KENT BENNETT.

>> HE CAME UP WITH IT.

IT IS FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE SHAPE OF THE BUILDING, THE FORM OF THE BUILDING SHOULD GROW OUT OF THE FUNCTION OF THE BUILDING.

WE HAVE A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF IT RIGHT HERE.

WHAT IS THE FUNCTION?

IT IS A BANK FOR FARMERS.

>> BENNETT WANTED IT TO BE A PLACE FARMERS WOULD FEEL AT HOME, NOT A GRECO ROMAN STATELY BUILDING WITH COLUMNS AND THAT WAS RIGHT UP SULLIVAN'S ALLEY.

>> THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE PEOPLE, IT COMES UP FROM THE BOTTOM, NOT DOWN FROM THE TOP.

THIS WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.

IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN A BANK THAT PEOPLE LOVED TO BRING THEIR MONEY TO.

>> SULLIVAN'S DRINKING LEFT MUCH OF THE WORK TO CHIEF DRAFTSMAN GEORGE GRANT ELMSLIE.

HIS ARTISTRY IS EVERYWHERE, LIKE IN THIS BEAUTIFUL ART GLASS.

>> THERE ARE TWO DESIGN ELEMENTS THAT I THINK ARE MOST INTERESTING IN THE BANK AND ONE OF THEM IS THIS FORM WHICH I SEE ABOUT 20 OF IN EACH OF THE WINDOWS, AND THERE ARE DOZENS MORE IN THE ELECTROLIERS.

THEY LOOK LIKE THIS.

THEY AVE FOUR LOBES STICKING OUT AND THEY ACTUALLY REPRESENT HUMANKIND.

I THINK OF THEM AS A REPRESENTATION OF THE HUMAN SOUL AND SO WHAT IS ELMSLIE DOING, HE IS PUTTING THESE REPRESENTATIONS OF UMANITY INSIDE OF A GROWING THING, INSIDE OF A PLANT.

SO HE'S SHOWING US HE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HUMANS AND NATURE.

>> THE ELECTROLIERS ARE MADE OF TERRA COTTA, AN ODE TO PLANT LIFE THEY ALMOST FROM IN THE CEILING.

THE FOUR-LOBBIED SHAPES REPRESENTING HUMANS ARE ENTWINED WITH NATURE AND HERE IS ANOTHER THEME AT PLAY.

>> ALL OVER THE PLACE, YOU SEE LITTLE BOXES INSIDE OF OTHER BOXES, IN THE WINDOWS, IN THE PRESIDENT'S OFFICE, WE HAVE VERY COMPLICATED BOXES WITHIN BOXES WITHIN BOXES, WHICH IS FLYING FOUR LAYERS OF IT.

THIS ALL GROWS FROM AN IDEA CALLED THE FOURTH DIMENSION.

>> DIMENSIONS OF LENGTH, WIDTH AND HEIGHT WERE KNOWN BUT, AT THE TIME, A FOURTH DIMENSION OF SPACE WAS AN EXCITING THEORY.

IT WAS A METAPHOR FOR AN EXPANDING CONSCIOUSNESS, AND IT'S CLEAR IT WAS ON ELMSLIE'S MIND.

>> EINSTEIN PROVED THAT THE FOURTH DIMENSION WAS TIME SO THAT IDEA REPLACED THE IDEA THAT THERE COULD BE A PHYSICAL FOURTH DIMENSION BUILD THE IDEA OF A PHYSICAL FOURTH EXEMPTION WAS ERY POPULAR AMONG INTELLECTUALS AROUND THE TURN OF THE 20th CENTURY.

>> THOUGH ELMSLY CARRIED MOST OF THE WAIT, SULLIVAN IS NOT ENTIRELY AB SEPTEMBER.

AN ARCH -- AN ARCHED WINDOW IS REMINISCE CENTER OF ONE IN A BUILDING IN SHAKE.

THE TWO RE SHOWN SIDE BY SIGHT, SULLIVAN ON THE LEFT, ELMSLY ON THE RIGHT.

>> SULLIVAN'S LOOKS LIKE IT'S INTENTION, ALL STRETCHED OUT, WHEREAS ELMSLY'S STUFF IS RELAXED, FAT AND HAPPY, IT'S GROWING STUFF.

YOU CAN SEE THE TURMOIL GOING ON IN SULLIVAN'S HEAD IN HOW HE DESIGNED THE TERRA COTTA, AND YOU CAN SEE THE RELAXED ACCEPTANCE OF INSPIRATION THAT IS COMING FROM HEAVEN OR SOMEWHERE INTO GEORGE ELMSLIE'S HEAD.

>> THE BANK COST $120,000, A HUGE SUM IN 1908.

WHAT'S EXTRAORDINARY IS THAT MUCH OF THE ORIGINAL WORKS REMAIN TODAY.

SOME BEAUTIFUL ORIGINAL FEATURES ARE GONE.

THIS IS A REPRODUCTION OF ONE OF THE IRON TELLER CAGES, POSSIBLY THE MOST REVERED DESIGN ELEMENT IN THE ENTIRE BANK.

>> THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD THAT OWN THE ORIGINAL IRON TELLER CAGES.

THEY'RE JUST THOUGHT OF AS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THINGS ELMSLIE EVER ARRIVED.

ARE.

>> IT WOULD BE THE LAST HURRAH FOR THEM TOGETHER.

SULLIVAN FIRED ELMSLIE THE FOLLOWING YEAR IN A BITTER PARTING, THE BANQUET BELLY UP A FEW YEARS LATER.

BUT EACH WITH THE BACK STORY, THIS BUILDING HAS REMAINED BELOVED BY THE COMMUNITY.

>> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ROUD OF THIS BANK IN OWATONNA EVER SINCE.

THEY LOVE IT.

THEY THINK OF IT AS THEIR TOWN SYMBOL.

IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO TO THE WORLD THAT EXISTS IN OWATONNA.

>> David: IS THERE ANYTHING MORE FUTILE THAN TRYING TO MAKE LIFE PASS MORE SLOWLY?

DO LESS.

LIVE IN THE PRESENT.

SAVOR THE MOMENT.

I'VE BEEN PRACTICING ALL OF THESE.

THEY FEEL GREAT BUT LET ME TELL YOU, THE DAYS KEEP FLYING BY.

IT'S A SPARKLE AND A WINK AND THERE IS ANOTHER YEAR, GONE, FOREVER GONE.

THERE IS ONE THING I'VE FOUND THAT HELPS JUST A BIT.

I'VE BEEN SHOOTING ALL MY FAMILY VIDEOS IN SLOW MOTION.

AND I MEAN IT, THIS IS TRUE, IT'S A SIMPLE EFFECT BUT I LOVE IT.

THE WORLD IN SLOW MOTION IS MAGICAL.

IT BREATHES, IT MOVES IN CIVILIZED PARABLES, AND THERE'S PLENTY OF TIME TO SEE ALL THE PAINFUL STUFF HEADED YOUR WAY.

MY PHONE IS FILLING UP WITH CLIPS AND THEY'RE MY PERSONAL MEDITATION SUPER POWER BECAUSE I CAN STRIP THE FRENETIC MORTALITY OUT OF WHATEVER I WANT.

NATURE.

MY LIPS.

CHILDHOOD.

AT A PACE LIKE THIS, IT'S JUST HARD TO IMAGINE ANYTHING TRULY BAD EVER HAPPENING.

IT'S A REALITY THAT'S JUST TOO GRACEFUL TO ACCOMMODATE MALICE.

YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, THESE DAYS, THAT'S A PRETTY ATTRACTIVE FEATURE FOR A PHONE.

♪♪ >> ERIC: IT'S A GREAT TRADITION.

IN EARLY JANUARY, MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS TAKE OVER THE STATE CAPITOL FOR SEVERAL DAYS AS PART OF THE YMCA YOUTH IN GOVERNMENT PROGRAM.

THE STUDENTS RESEARCH AND DEBATE TOPICS AND LEARN HOW LAWS ARE MADE.

NEXT WEEKEND, THERE'S A 75-YEAR ANNIVERSARY REUNION FOR THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF STUDENTS WHO HAVE TAKEN PART IN THE YOUTH AND GOVERNMENT MOVEMENT.

HERE TO TELL US MORE, LONGTIME PROGRAM DIRECTOR ORVILLE LINDQUIST.

ORVILLE, WHAT'S THE GOAL OF THE PROGRAM?

>> WE REALLY WANT TO TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE HOW TO BE ACTIVE, ENGAGED CITIZENS AND HOW THEY CAN CARRY THAT THROUGH WHAT THEY DO NOW, AS STUDENTS, AND THROUGH THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

>> Cathy: HOW HAS IT CHANGED?

I BET IT'S CHANGED DRAMATICALLY IN ALL THESE YEARS.

HAVE ATTITUDES CHANGED TOWARD GOVERNMENT ON THE PART OF THE STUDENT?

>> A LITTLE BIT.

REALLY, WE HAVE A LOT OF FOLKS WHO COME IN AND BECAUSE THEY'RE FRIENDS HAVE TOLD THEM THIS IS A NEAT THING TO DO, THEY DO IT AND THEY SORT OF COME BECAUSE OF THE FUN PART AND THEN THEY LEARN WHAT IT'S REALLY ABOUT AND HEY GET TO DIG INTO ISSUES ND THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT AND PROCESS, AND THEY STAY FOR THAT.

SO WE HAVE KIDS WHO DO THIS FOR FOUR AND FIVE YEARS AT A TIME, BECAUSE IT'S THAT IMPORTANT.

>> Eric: HAVE ALUMNI GONE ON TO SERVE IN ELECTED POSITIONS OR OTHER UNELECTED POSITIONS OR -- >> WE HAVE A FEW.

CONGRESSMAN -- FORMER CONGRESSMAN -- FORMER JUDGE, DAVID MINGE WAS A YOUTH GOVERNOR BACK IN 1960.

CURRENT SECRETARY OF STATE SIMON IS AN ALUM.

BUT ALSO, I'M REALLY FOND OF SAYING WE ARE NOT HERE TO RAISE SENATORS, WE ARE HERE TO BRING CITIZENS ABOUT.

SO WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO TAKE ON REALLY EXTRAORDINARY FUNCTIONS IN ORDINARY WALKS OF LIFE, THE TEACHERS, DOCTORS AND, YOU KNOW, RUNNING BUSINESSES, ALL THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO PARTICIPANTS SAY?

HAVE -- DO THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE CHANGED INDIVIDUALS ONCE THEY GO THROUGH HE PROGRAM TO AN EXTENT?

>> THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY.

THEY'VE LEARNED THINGS ABOUT THEMSELVES, THEY'VE LEARNED THINGS ABOUT PROCESS, THEY'VE LEARNED HOW TO COLLABORATE.

AND ALUMNI REALLY TELL ME THAT THEY LEARNED MORE ABOUT HOW TO DO THEIR JOBS WHEN THEY WENT INTO THE WORKFORCE THAN THEY DID THROUGH SCHOOL, AND I LOVE TEACHERS, I'M FRIENDS WITH LOTS OF TEACHERS, NOT TRYING TO DENIGRATE SCHOOLS BUT THIS IS HANDS-ON WORK AND THINGS THAT WE DON'T TEACH IN A TEXTBOOK.

AGAIN, IT'S CARING, COLLABORATION, CREATIVITY, AND THEN HOW DO YOU PUT THAT INTO PRACTICE?

>> Eric: IS HE HYPER PARTISANSHIP OF TODAY BEING REFLECTED IN THE STUDENTS WHEN THEY OME TO THE PROGRAM?

>> IT'S REFLECTED WHEN THEY WRITE THEIR BILLS OR WHEN THEY DEBATE THE ISSUES.

BUT WHEN THE PROGRAM SESSIONS ARE DONE AND IT'S TIME FOR EVENING ACTIVITIES OR TRANSPORTATION -- THEY MOVE FROM THE HOTEL TO THE CAPITOL OR WHEN WE HAVE GATHERINGS AT RETREATS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, THAT GOES AWAY.

THEY'RE FRIENDS OR AT LEAST THEY'RE INTERESTED IN EACH OTHER SO THE PARTISANSHIP DOESN'T -- IT STAYS ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE OR THE SENATE OR THE COURT, AND THEN PEOPLE ARE JUST PEOPLE AND FRIENDS.

>> Cathy: SO, FOR FOLKS WHO WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE PROGRAM BETTER, SO, REALLY, THIS IS A LEGISLATURE, A GOVERNMENT THAT YOU FORM, IN A SENSE, WITH THE STUDENTS, AND THEY WRITE THEIR OWN BILLS, THEY DEBATE -- >> WE COME TO THE CAPITOL EVERY JANUARY SINCE 1946.

WE HAVE A LEGISLATURE, HOUSE AND SENATE, A SUPREME COURT, A COURT OF APPEALS, WE HAVE A MOCK TRIAL COMPETITION WITHIN THE PROGRAM.

WE HAVE LOBBYISTS, WE HAVE A YOUTH GOVERNOR WHO HAS A CABINET, OTHER REPRESENTATIVES FROM STATE DEPARTMENTS BUT THEN WE ALSO HAVE ANth GRADE PROGRAM WHERE WE TEACH 8th GRADERS EVERYTHING ABOUT -- I CALL IT THE WALKING CIVICS LESSON, WE TALK ABOUT ISSUES, IT'S NOT LEGISLATION, IT'S IDEAS AND IT'S DONE WITH RESPECT SO IT'S OT YOU DIRTY, SOMETHING OR OTHER, IT'S I BELIEVE THIS AND THIS IS THE WAY ORWARD FOR THE STATE OR THE NATION.

OR I BELIEVE THIS OTHER THING THAT'S DIFFERENT AND THEN WE TALK ABOUT WHY WE DON'T EE IT THE SAME WAY.

>> Eric: DO YOU COME OUT OF EACH JANUARY SESSION WITH THE PROGRAM THINKING, THE FUTURE ISN'T AS BAD AS I THINK BECAUSE THESE KIDS ARE PRETTY SHARP?

>> WE HAVE OME FABULOUS KIDS.

I'M SO PROUD TO PUT THESE YOUNG PEOPLE OUT INTO THE WORLD AND, AGAIN, DOING THESE EVERYDAY KINDS OF CAREERS BECAUSE IT MAKES THE WORLD BETTER.

IT'S KIND OF FROM THE BOTTOM UP.

>> Cathy: SO TALK ABOUT THE REUNION.

>> SO WE ARE GATHERING, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE AT LEAST 300 AND -- RISING FOLKS COMING TOGETHER.

WE HAVE A HISTORY BOOK THAT WE'RE PUTTING OUT.

SOME HISTORY -- BIG -- WE'RE BIG INTO HISTORY BUT ALSO BIG INTO REUNITING WITH PEOPLE.

WE HAVE A GRATH SMATTERING OF PEOPLE FROM DIFFER ERAS.

I'M REALLY WORKING WITH THE CURRENT STUDENTS TO SAY ASK THE OLD PEOPLE THEIR STORIES BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE ASKED AND THEY'RE GOING TO TELL YOU SOME FANTASTIC STORIES.

>> Eric: CONGRATULATIONS ON THE ANNIVERSARY AND BEST OF LUCK GOING FORWARD.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Eric: THANK YOU FOR COMING OVER.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> ERIC: THE REGULAR LEGISLATIVE SESSION CAME TO A CLOSE THIS WEEK WITH MUCH OF THE WORK LEFT TO DO ON EDUCATION, PUBLIC SAFETY, TAX RELIEF AND MORE.

A SPECIAL SESSION IS FAR FROM CERTAIN WITH A MAJOR ELECTION LATER THIS YEAR.

MARY LAHAMMER SHOWS US ONE BILL MANY WERE EAGER TO SEE SIGNED INTO LAW.

>> DONE, THERE YOU GO.

[Cheering] >> BEER AT A BILL SIGNING IS NEW, BUT THE FREE THE GROWLER LEGISLATION ENDS UP BEING ONE OF THE BIGGER ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF A DISAPPOINTING SESSION FOR MANY.

>> THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

>> THIS IS A GOOD THING THAT WE WORKED A LONG TIME ON.

YOU'LL MAKE A LOT OF MINNESOTANS HAPPY SO I'M REALLY GLAD THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET THIS ONE DONE.

>> Mary: HOW DID IT HAPPEN?

I'VE BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO SEE DECADES AND DECADES OF VERY LOW PROCESS ON RELAXING LIQUOR LAWS AND YOU SEEMED TO PURPOSE THIS THROUGH FASTER THAN MOST.

>> IT TOOK A LOT OF EFFORT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE YEAR, I TRAVELED THE WHOLE STATE AND THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES TO BRING A DEAL TOGETHER, IS BRINGING ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS INTO THE SAME ROOM, HAVING DISCUSSIONS, FINDING OUT WHERE THAT COMMON GROUND LIES AND BUILDING AROUND THAT.

>> I JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE IN THIS MOMENT, THE INCREDIBLE BIPARTISAN WORK THAT WAS DONE HERE.

THESE ARE TALENTED LEGISLATORS, AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE DIDN'T GET EVERYTHING DONE, YET, HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO THAT BUT MUCH DID GET DONE THIS SESSION AND IN A DIVIDED LEGISLATURE AND A TOUGH ENVIRONMENT, TO HAVE THE SKILL TO MOVE A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT MANY IN THIS ROOM HAVE WANTED FOR QUITE SOME TIME IS REALLY, REALLY IMPRESSIVE.

>> Mary: YOU'RE STILL RELATIVELY NEW TO THE LEGISLATURE AND THIS IS ALMOST A HERCULEAN EFFORT, YOU KNOW PEOPLE SPENT DECADES WORKING ON ISSUES LEASH THIS, HOW DOES A NEW PERSON DO THIS?

>> ALL I KNOW IS TO WORK HARD AT IT AND TALK TO PEOPLE AND THAT'S THE APPROACH I'VE TAKEN WITH EVERY PIECE OF LEGISLATION I'VE TAKEN ON.

THIS PUTS YOU ON THE MAP.

DOES THIS MAKE YOU INTERESTED IN HIGHER OFFICE?

>> I DON'T KNOW, I HAVE TO WIN AGAIN IN A 50-FIFTY FIGHT THIS FALL, MARY.

>> WHEN I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE AND WE WERE ABLE TO VOTE ON SUNDAY SALES AND, BOY, DID I HEAR ABOUT HOW PEOPLE FELT ABOUT THAT LEGISLATION.

>> Mary: IS THIS THE MOST POPULAR THAT THE THING THAT THE LEGISLATURE ACCOMPLISHED?

>> I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR THINGS.

I KNOW THERE WAS STUFF LEFT ON THE TABLE BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DETECTIVING THE FRONT-LINE WORKER PAYTON, THE MENTAL HEALTH PACKAGE ON THE LAST DAY OF SESSION, THERE WERE SOME GOOD WINS.

HAPPY HOUR HAS FINALLY ARRIVED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> Mary: THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION ENDED WITH THE NOW ALMOST CLICHÉ WHIMPER.

LAWMAKERS DID MANAGE TO MOVE A MENTAL HEALTH BILL WITH MINUTES LEFT.

>> THIS ISSUE IS TOO BIG TO BE RUSHING A BILL THAT PEOPLE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT MORE THAN THE LAST 24 OR 48 HOURS.

>> Mary: THE GOVERNOR SIGNED DOZENS OF BILLS AND IS STILL READY TO SEE MORE.

>> IN MY OPINION, WE'RE ABOUT 90 TO 95% OF THE WAY THERE AND YOU DON'T GET THE BALL TO THE ONE-YARD LINE AND GO HOME.

YOU FINISH THE JOB.

>> Mary: BUT SENATE REPUBLICANS DIDN'T SOUND SO INTERESTED IN COMING BACK.

>> AT THE END OF THE DAY, MEMBERS, IT'S A DISAPPOINTING OUTCOME.

EVEN MORE SO THAN DISAPPOINTMENT, IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING.

>> I AM EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED WITH THE OUTCOME OF THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION WHICH IT'S EVEN MORE PERSONAL AS IT WILL BE MY LAST.

AND I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO GO OUT WITH A BANG.

>> Mary: WHILE SENATORS SEEMED SAD TO SEE HISTORIC OPPORTUNITIES DISAPPEAR TO INVEST IN TAX CUTS, EDUCATION, PUBLIC SAFETY AND NURSING HOMES, REPRESENTATIVES ARE FREDDIE TO RETURN.

>> THERE IS A FEW BILLS THAT ARE VERY CLOSE BUT WE DON'T YET HAVE AGREEMENT.

MINNESOTA HOUSE IS READY TO COME BACK AND GET THE WORK DONE.

>> MINNESOTANS EXPECT US TO SHOW UP AND GET THE JOB DONE.

WE HAVE HAD A TENDENCY IN RECENT YEARS TO HAVE A FINAL AGREEMENT TOWARDS THE CLOSE OF SESSION AND TO COME BACK IN A SPECIAL SESSION AND FINALIZE THAT WORK.

>> Mary: AND THE GOVERNOR QUICKLY CHANGED HIS MIND AND IS NOW WILLING TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION.

>> YEAH, IT'S RIDICULOUS.

I THINK THE MESSAGE IT SENDS IS WE NEED FOLKS THAT ARE NOT RIGIDLY IDEOLOGICAL, WILLING TO COME TOGETHER, WE'RE ABLE TO GET THIS THING DONE.

I TELL YOU WHAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IS, IT WON'T BE BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T MADE EVERY EFFORT TO DO THAT.

THE IDEA THAT THE CLOCK STRUCK MIDNIGHT AND YOU TURN INTO A PUMPKIN OR SOMETHING, NO, WE'VE HAD SPECIAL SESSIONS EVERY SINGLE TIME IF THE WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE.

THE WORK IS WHAT MATTERS.

>> CATHY: FOR A LONG TIME NOW, THERE'S BEEN NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT THE PROSPECTS OF A POSSIBLE SPECIAL SESSION.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT GOT DONE AND WHAT DIDN'T IN ST. PAUL, AND WHAT IT MAY MEAN FOR THE FALL, TWO VETERAN LEGISLATIVE WATCHERS.

ABOU AMARA IS A DEMOCRAT AND FORMER STAFFER AT THE CAPITOL.

HE'S A LAWYER.

BRIAN MCDANIEL IS A REPUBLICAN, ONE-TIME LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW A LOBBYIST.

HE TOO IS A LAWYER.

SAY, BRIAN -- >> YES.

>> Cathy: THAT BIG BUDGET SURPLUS.

WAS THAT A BLESSING OR A CURSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT JUST TRANSPIRED IN St. PAUL?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO TALK HOW PROUD I AM OF THAT LIQUOR BILL THAT YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT, HISTORIC PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE LIQUOR DISTRIBUTORS AND THE LICKER -- >> Cathy: THANK YOU FOR LOBBYING ON THAT BILL.

>> I THINK THE WORST THING YOU COULD HAVE IS JUST A LITTLE BIT OF ONEY BECAUSE THEN EVERYBODY IS FIGHTING OVER THAT.

I THINK THERE WERE JUST A LOT OF THINGS THAT WERE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, COOKED INTO THE STEW THIS YEAR WITH REDISTRICTING AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT MADE IT HARD TO SEE HOW THEY WERE GOING TO GET TO YES.

YOU KNOW, I WAS VERY POSITIVE AND HOPEFUL WHEN THEY GOT, YOU KNOW, THE GLOBAL AGREEMENT DONE BUT I ALWAYS LOOKED AT PUBLIC SAFETY, EDUCATION, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND KIND OF WONDERED, HOW THE HERB ARE THEY GOING TO GET TO YES AND I DON'T THINK THEY GOT THAT CLOSE.

I HOPE THEY GET CLOSE BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE THAT CLOSE AS OF SUNDAY.

>> I'M REMINDED OF THE QUOTE FROM BIGGY SMALLS, MORE MONEY, MORE PROBLEMS, AND YOU HAVE FOLKS WHO HAVE THEIR PET PROJECTS ALL ACROSS THE STATE AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A DEFICIT, LEADERSHIP CAN REALLY PUSH DOWN AND GET THE CAUCUS ON BOARD WITH A PROPOSAL OR TWO.

HERE, YOU HAVE FOLKS SAYING THERE IS NOT A SHORTAGE OF MONEY, THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF WILL SO I THINK GOING INTO THE END OF SESSION, WE SAW THAT MANIFEST AND I'M NOT SURE, MAYBE I'M WRONG, I'M NOT SURE THERE WILL BE A SPECIAL SESSION TO REALLY RECONCILE SOME OF THESE ISSUES.

>> Cathy: UNLESS, I WONDER, SEE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS.

MIGHT MOMENTUM PICK UP AFTER THE FILINGS CLOSE ON TUESDAY?

>> I THINK THAT DOES RELEASE SOME PRESSURE, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M SUPPOSED TO QUOTE TOUPAC RIGHT NOW OR NOT BUT I THINK THAT RELEASES SOME PRESSURE.

WE ALWAYS HAVE TO REMIND OURSELVES, THIS WAS NOT A BUDGET YEAR.

THEY DO OT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

NOTHING GETS SHUT DOWN BUT I DO THINK THAT THEY TANTALIZED US AND THE VOTING PUBLIC WITH A GREAT-LOOKING TAX BILL AND SO THE QUESTION IS JUST GOING TO BE, SO, ARE OU GOING TO GIVE US THE MONEY BACK BY WAY OF TAX CUTS, ARE YOU GOING TO SPEND SOME OF IT AND IF NOT, THEN WHY ARE YOU HOLDING ON TO ALL OF OUR MONEY?

SO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FACE THAT AT HOME.

>> Eric: HOW ABOUT MY CONTRARIAN VIEW OF THIS, THAT IN A TYPICAL EVEN-YEAR SESSION, THIS WORK PRODUCT WAS VERY GOOD.

NOW, THEY HAD MENTAL HEALTH AND THEY HAD A GOOD POLICY BILL IN HUMAN SERVICES, UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE, THE HERO GRANTS, THE LIST -- BROADBAND, IT GOES ON AND ON.

BUT IT WAS JUST THE KIND OF THE EXPECTATIONS OF ARE HERE'S $9 BILLION AND EVERYBODY HAS THEIR HAND OUT FOR IT AND -- OR AM I WRONG?

>> I THINK THAT'S TRUE IN THE CONTEXT OF A BUDGET WHERE YOU HAVE MAYBE A 100-MILLION SURPLUS OR A 200-MILLION SURPLUS.

WE HAD A $10 BILLION IS YOUR PLOWS SO I WAS READY TO SEE UNPRECEDENTED ACTION AT A TIME OF UNPRECEDENTED RESOURCES.

AND I THINK THOSE ARE THE FOLKS WHO WILL WALK AWAY FROM THE SESSION WE DIDN'T TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO DO HISTORIC INVESTMENTS THAT WE WANTED TO SEE WITH THIS SURPLUS.

>> Eric: AM I WRONG?

>> I THINK THAT NO ONE IS GOING TO NECESSARILY ACT THE AT THIS SESSION AND SAY, WOW, THIS WAS A GREAT ONE.

THIS IS ONE FOR THE BOOKS.

WHEN YOU HAVE -- I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH IGGY OVER HERE, THAT WHEN YOU HAVE $10 BILLION, PEOPLE EXPECT SOMETHING.

THEY EITHER WANT YOU TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING BIG THAT THEY CAN LOOK AT OR THEY WANT THEIR MONEY BACK AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE HHS POLICY BILL WHICH HAD REALLY GOOD STUFF IN IT, MENTAL HEALTH FUNDING WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN MORE, I THINK EVERYTHING COULD HAVE BEEN MORE AND I'M OT READY TO GIVE UP BUT THEY NEED SOME TIME.

>> AND ULTIMATELY IT WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR THE DEMOCRATS AND I WOULD SUSPECT THE REPUBLICANS, AS WELL, TO CONTRAST AS TO WHY WE ARE IN THIS POSITION.

NOW GOING INTO NOVEMBER, IF WE DON'T ULTIMATELY HAVE A GLOBAL DEAL, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO MINNESOTANS WHY THERE IS $9 BILLION -- $SEVEN BILLION OF THEIR MONEY SITTING ON THE BOTTOM LINE AND IT'S NOT BACK IN THE HANDS OF MINNESOTANS, DEMOCRATS, I KNOW WE WANTED TO DO A LOT OF THINGS ON AND THAT TO ME IS GOING TO BE A REALLY -- IT'S GOING TO BE A REALLY CONTRAST POINT GOING INTO NOVEMBER.

>> Eric: IF THERE IS A SESSION, WHERE DOES GUN CONTROL FALL IN, IF FALL?

>> FOR A SPECIAL SESSION?

IT WON'T BE PART OF IT.

I THINK THAT THE VOTES -- >> Cathy: WON'T THEY WANT TO TAKE VOTES?

>> Eric: WELL, THERE WILL BE BILLS INTRODUCED -- >> YOU CAN'T STOP ANYBODY, FOR THE PUBLIC, REMEMBER, WHEN YOU HAVE A SPECIAL SESSION, ANYBODY CAN INTRODUCE ANY ILL THEY WANT AND ANY BILL CAN BE AMENDED BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT CONFERENCE REPORTS ANYMORE, SO I THINK THAT THERE WILL DEFINITELY BE ATTEMPTS TO DO THAT BUT IF THEY ACTUALLY ANT TO PASS THESE BUGGER BILLS, I THINK THAT SOME OF THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE TEN PERIOD BECAUSE IF YOU PUT A GUN CONTROL AMENDMENT ON SOMETHING, PEOPLE WON'T VOTE FOR IT.

>> ANOTHER THING YOU JUST SAID IS THE DEMOCRATS WILL PUT UP BACKGROUND CHECKS, IT WILL FAIL BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE WILL BLOCK IT AND THAT'S WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY DEMOCRATS HAVE TO DRAW A CONTRAST.

THIS SPECIAL SESSION, WE HAVE TO SHOW SPECIAL ARGUMENTS FOR MINNESOTANS FOR WHY -- WHAT THEY WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN IS NOT HAPPENING.

>> REPUBLICANS DON'T NEED TO BE PART OF THIS CONVERSATION.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE IN CONTROL OF THE PRESIDENCY, THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE.

THE DEMOCRATS THEMSELVES HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET RID OF THE FILIBUSTER -- >> THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> -- AND PASS THESE THINGS BUT THEY DON'T BECAUSE THERE IS NOT UNIVERSAL OPINIONS WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON THIS.

THIS IS A GOOD ISSUE FOR THEM.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO HAVE A LOT MORE DISCUSSION AND -- BUT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO PASS BECAUSE WHAT PEOPLE -- WHAT REALLY WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE WOULD BE BANNING CERTAIN TYPES OF GUNS, AND THAT WON'T HAPPEN.

>> WELL, WE HAD AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN IN THE 1990s.

WHY CAN'T WE DO IT NOW?

>> WE CAN.

>> WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS SINCE COLUMBINE.

WHY HAVEN'T WE DONE ANYTHING?

WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING BECAUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN IN COZY WITH THE NRA AND BLOCKED MEANINGFUL PROPOSALS ACROSS THE BOARD.

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

85% OF AMERICANS DEGREE ON UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.

WHY DON'T WE HAVE THEM?

BECAUSE MITCH McCONNELL IN THE SENATE WON'T HAVE A HEARING ON THEM.

>> HE'S BEEN IN THE MINORITY IN THE SENATE, DOESN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY.

>> ARE YOU TELLING ME MITCH McCONNELL, THE MOST POWERFUL REPUBLICAN IN AMERICA HAS NO POWER IN TERMS OF GUN CONTROL?

>> HE IS NOT IN THE MAJORITY.

IF HE WANTS TO CALL A HEARING, MAYBE THE DEMOCRATS WOULD SAY, YEAH, WE'LL GRANT THAT TO YOU BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD DO THAT WITHOUT HIM.

THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE IF YOU GIVE SOMEONE A TITLE, SOMETHING THAT SOUNDS GOOD LIKE UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS, YEAH, PEOPLE WILL SAY, THAT SOUNDS GOOD.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

DEFINE AN ASSAULT RIFLE.

YOU CAN'T BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A DEFINITION OF IT.

IN NEW YORK WHERE WE JUST HAD A HORRIFIC SHOOTING, THEY HAVE RED FLAG LAWS, THEY HAVE BACKGROUND CHECKS.

THE GUY DOWN IN TEXAS, HE PASSED A BACKGROUND CHECK.

WE HAVE LAWS IN PLACE THAT DO NOT -- THAT ARE NOT STOPPING THESE THINGS FROM HAPPENING, AND NO ONE'S BABY, YOU KNOW, I HAVE KIDS THAT ARE STILL IN SCHOOL, NO ONE'S BABY SHOULD GO TO SCHOOL AND HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT, YOU NOW, GETTING KILLED.

I GET THAT.

BUT DOING SOMETHING THAT JUST FEELS GOOD, DOING SOMETHING THAT MAKES US SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO PUNISH THE NRA BECAUSE WE HATE THEM, THE NRA IS JUST A THING, AN ORGANIZATION, IT IS THE PEOPLE THAT PROVIDE THE NRA WITH THEIR POWER AND HE PEOPLE ARE TELLING THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS WHAT THEY WANT AND WHAT THEY DON'T WANT.

>> WE ARE THE ONLY COUNTRY ON THIS EARTH THAT FACES CONTINUOUS CARNAGE WITH OUR SCHOOLS.

DON'T TELL ME WE DON'T HAVE POLICIES THAT CAN WORK TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF GUN VIOLENCE IN OUR SOCIETY.

THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE, AND WE KNOW THE IMPEDIMENT, IT IS THE NRA, IT IS THE EPUBLICANS THERE ARE BOUGHT AND SOLD BY THEM.

THAT IS THE IMPEDIMENT FOR US TO GET SOME CHANGE.

>> Eric: NURSING HOMES, BONDING BILL, STATE MATCH OF THE FEDERAL FUNDING FOR INFRASTRUCTURE?

CAN THERE BE A SCALED-BACK LITTLE MINI DEAL THAT JUST HAS -- GOING BACK TO THE SPECIAL SESSION.

>> YEAH, YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT, ESPECIALLY ON THE TRANSPORTATION.

THERE IS A LOT OF FEDERAL MONEY -- >> Eric: BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

>> FEDERAL MONEY THAT'S ON THE TABLE THAT WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS IF WE DON'T MOVE.

THAT IS I THINK SOMETHING REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WOULD AGREE ON BUT I THINK THE DEMOCRATS WOULD DEFINITELY SEE SOMETHING SCALED DOWN AS A FAILURE.

>> Eric: SPECIAL -- YES OR NO, SPECIAL SESSION?

>> MAYBE.

>> Cathy: MAYBE.

>> YES WITH AN F OR NO WITH A BUT.

>> SAID LIKE A SMILE.

>> Eric: BIGGY SMILES AND BUT, WE GOT IT.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

TWO REMINDERS BEFORE WE GO.

THE "FRONTLINE" DOCUMENTARY "POLICE ON TRIAL" WILL AIR ON MANY PBS STATIONS NEXT TUESDAY NIGHT.

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FIVE YEARS AGO THIS WEEK, I HAD THE PLEASURE TO CHAT WITH CHASTITY BROWN WHEN SHE STOPPED BY.

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HERE SHE IS SINGING HER TUNE "DRIVE SLOW."

GOOD ADVICE FOR THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND, BY THE WAY.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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