>> PENCE ADDRESSES THE LATEST TRUMP INDICTMENT.

BRAD CHAMBERS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

PLUS, DR. CAITLIN BERNARD DENIED AN AWARD.

AND MORE.

FROM THE DIVISION STUDIOS OF WFYI, IT'S "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" FOR THE WEEK ENDING AUGUST 1th, 2023.

♪ >> "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

>> THIS WEEK FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE ADDRESSED THE LATEST INDICTMENT OF DONALD TRUMP, SAYING NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW AND THAT TRUMP DESERVES THE PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE.

PENCE SPOKE TO REPUBLICANS AT A NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE CONFERENCE IN INDIANAPOLIS WEDNESDAY.

>> THE LATEST INDICTMENT IS IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA ARE WITH TRUMP AND OTHERS ACCUSED OF A CONSPIRACY TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION RESULTS THERE IN 2020.

PENCE DIDN'T DIRECTLY SAY WHETHER HE THINKS TRUMP IS GUILTY, BUT HE ALSO DIDN'T SHY AWAY FROM CRITICIZING HIM EITHER.

>> DESPITE WHAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S ALLIES HAVE SAID, FOR NOW MORE THAN TWO AND A HALF YEARS AND CONTINUE TO INSIST TO THIS VERY HOUR, THE GEORGIA ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN, AND I HAD NO RIGHT TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION ON JANUARY 6th.

>> PENCE SAYS HE HAD HOPED JUDGMENT OF TRUMP'S CONDUCT AROUND THE 2020 ELECTION WOULD BE LEFT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND TO HISTORY.

>> IS PENCE STILL TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS ON DONALD TRUMP?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" PANEL.

DEMOCRAT DESTINY WELLS.

REPUBLICAN JENNIFER HALLOWELL.

JOHN SCHWANTES, HOST OF" INDIANA LAWMAKERS" AND NIKI KELLY, EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE" INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE."

I'M BRANDON SMITH.

IN HIS SPEECH PENCE SAYS THE GEORGIA ELECTION WASN'T STOLEN, BUT I WISH DONALD TRUMP -- THE JUDGMENT OF DONALD TRUMP WAS LEFT TO HISTORY AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, THE NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW, BUT HE DESERVES TO BE THOUGHT OF AS INNOCENT FIRST.

IS HE STILL TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?

>> I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT'S A FAIR WAY TO FRAME IT UP BECAUSE, FIRST AND FOREMOST, THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT HE HAS SAID ARE THAT THE ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN.

TRUMP LOST THE ELECTION.

HE HAD NO ABILITY TO, NO RIGHT TO OVERTURN IT.

THAT IS A MESSAGE THAT ESPECIALLY REPUBLICANS NEED TO HEAR OFTEN AND FROM MORE PEOPLE, SO I THINK THAT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

AS FOR THE REST OF IT, IT'S NOT REALLY HIS PLACE OR HARDLY ANYBODY ELSE'S PLACE TO WEIGH IN ON WHETHER OR NOT -- WHAT THEY THINK OF THE INDICTMENTS AND HOW THE PROCESS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT.

THAT'S GOING TO PLAY OUT IN COURT.

FRANKLY, AS A CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT AS THEY ALL ARE KIND OF GRAPPLING WITH, IT'S A BALANCING ACT BECAUSE THERE'S STILL A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS PROBABLY THE PATH THAT MOST PEOPLE -- OR MOST OF THOSE CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO TAKE HOPEFULLY BEING HONEST ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020, BUT THERE'S NO UPSIDE TO GETTING IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

>> I THINK -- I DON'T THINK MIKE PENCE IS GOING TO WIN A LOT OF HARD CORE TRUMP VOTERS OVER, CONSIDERING THEY WANTED TO QUITE LITERALLY HANG HIM ON JANUARY 6th.

SO IS THIS ABOUT -- IS THIS A STRONG STATEMENT FROM PENCE SAYING, YOU KNOW, VERY DECISIVELY THE GEORGIA ELECTION WASN'T STOLEN AND NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S STRONG.

YOU JUST SAID, HE FLIP-FLOPPED, RIGHT?

WHEN YOU REALLY LOOK AT HOW THESE CAMPAIGNS WORK, THEY'RE NOT REALLY CALIBRATED TO TELL THE TRUTH.

THEY'RE CALIBRATED TO TELL WHAT THE VOTERS WANT TO HEAR.

I THINK EVERYBODY IS WATCHING THIS LITIGATION UNFOLD, AND THEY'RE NOT SURE WHAT VOTERS WANT TO HEAR.

THEY PROBABLY HAVE POLLING GOING ON IN THE BACKGROUND, AND WE'RE SEEING THAT WITH HIM IN FRONT OF HIS CAMPAIGN KIND OF FLIP-FLOPPING ON WANTING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS, LIKE YOU SAID.

>> THE LINE THAT STUCK OUT TO ME MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE -- CERTAINLY THE GEORGIA ELECTION, VERY, VERY CLEAR.

THAT WAS BIG, AND THAT WAS IMPORTANT, AS JENNIFER JUST SAID.

THE LINE THAT STUCK OUT TO ME IN THE OTHER DIRECTION WAS I WISH THE JUDGMENT OF DONALD TRUMP HAD BEEN RESERVED FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND HISTORY.

WELL, THAT'S NICE IF DONALD TRUMP HAD SIMPLY GONE AWAY, BUT HE IS THE LEADING REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, AND ALSO, HE IS GOING TO FACE JURIES WHICH ARE MADE UP OF, I'M PRETTY CONFIDENT, AMERICAN PEOPLE.

ISN'T THAT FACING THE JUDGMENT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?

ISN'T THE LEGAL PROCESS HOW THAT PLAYS OUT?

>> YEAH.

I THINK MIKE PENCE IS TRYING TO HAVE -- IT'S A DELICATE BALANCING ACT, BUT HE IS NOT GOING QUITE AS FAR AS OTHERS SAYING THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS BEING USED AS A WEAPON OR, YOU KNOW, PROSECUTORS ARE BEING USED AS A WEAPONIZATION IN POLITICS.

HE IS NOT GOING THAT FAR.

I DO -- I AM GLAD OF THAT BECAUSE THESE ARE ALL INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIONS.

SOME FEDERAL.

SOME NOT.

ALL WITH JURORS, GRAND JURORS, WHO VOTED ON THESE INDICTMENTS.

PEOPLE, VOTERS, AMERICANS.

I'M AT LEAST GLAD THAT HE IS NOT TAKING THAT APPROACH.

BUT HE IS RESERVING A LITTLE BIT OF SPACE FOR HIMSELF.

>> TO THAT END, HE IS NOT GOING AS FAR IN EITHER DIRECTION AS OTHER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES ARE.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE FIELD GOING THE DIRECTION NIKI JUST TALKED ABOUT.

A FEW IN THE FIELD GOING THE OTHER DIRECTION, WHICH IS DONALD TRUMP IS A CRIMINAL WHO SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING, LET ALONE RUN FOR PRESIDENT EVER AGAIN AND IT'S AN EMBARRASSMENT, ET CETERA.

IS THAT -- WE'VE TALKED ABOUT -- WE TALK ABOUT LANES ALL THE TIME.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT IN THE NEXT TOPIC AS WELL.

IS THAT A LANE THAT HE CAN HAVE SOME SUCCESS IN, WHICH IS I'M NOT NECESSARILY MAKING EVERYBODY WHO AGREES WITH THE SIDE NIKI JUST TALKED ABOUT -- I'M NOT REALLY ANGERING THEM TOO MUCH BY NOT GOING AS FAR ANTI-TRUMP AS I COULD, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I AM APPEALING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE MAYBE FED UP WITH TRUMP OR THINK HE DIDN'T DO THE RIGHT THING?

>> IT'S VERY MIKE PENCE.

MIKE PENCE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, IS SOMEONE WHO IS AN ACCOMPLISHED COMMUNICATOR.

HE IS A FORMER TELEVISION HOST, RADIO HOST.

I'VE DEBATED AGAINST HIM, AND HE IS FORMIDABLE.

IT'S NOT THE KIND OF FORMIDABLE IN THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE WHERE -- AND WE'LL SEE IT WITH THE DEBATE, WHERE IT'S RED MEAT, IT'S PUTDOWNS, IT'S GOTCHA, HOW YOU CAN SLAM DANCE YOUR OPPONENT.

I THINK THAT SAME APPROACH OF THOSE SCHOLARLY OR LAWYERLY, YOU KNOW, JUDICIARIES APPROACH WHICH YOU COULD SAY HE IS TAKING HERE WOULD PLAY WELL IN A DEBATE SETTING IF SOMEBODY WERE JUDGING, YOU KNOW, THE MERITS OF YOUR DEBATE PERFORMANCE OR THE LEGITIMATE SI OF YOUR POINTS OR MAYBE WITH A GENERAL ELECTION, BUT LET'S KEEP IN MIND THAT HIS AUDIENCE RIGHT NOW IS A VERY SEEMINGLY BY ALL THE POLLS WE'VE SEEN, A VERY CONSERVATIVE, VERY ACTIVE, ACTIVIST, REACTIONARY FACTION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHICH DOESN'T HAVE MUCH INTEREST IN HEARING ON THE OTHER HAND THIS AND THAT.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A WINNING STRATEGY POLITICALLY.

I'M NOT SAYING IT'S GOOD OR BAD IN THE SENSE OF -- >> NOT GOOD OR BAD, BUT NOT -- >> IN THE SENSE OF HUMANITY.

IF SOMEBODY ASKED ME FOR PREDICT ADVICE, I WOULD SAY ONE OR THE OTHER.

ONE, YOU CAN'T GO WITH THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HEADACHE YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE WANT GOING TO WIN THEM OVER.

THAT LEAVES YOU ONE LANE.

IT'S PRETTY FAR -- IT'S MORE THE CHRISTIE, HUTCHISON, WILL HEARD PATH.

>> INDIANA'S CROWDED REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR HAS ANOTHER CANDIDATE.

BRAD CHAMBERS, WHO RECENTLY STEPPED DOWN AS INDIANA SECRETARY OF COMMERCE, THREW HIS HAT INTO THE RING THIS WEEK.

>> CHAMBERS SERVED TWO YEARS RUNNING THE INDIANA ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, AND HE SAYS THAT SERVICE IS HELPING DRIVE HIS DECISION TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

IN A STATEMENT ANNOUNCING HIS BID, HE REPEATEDLY USES THE WORD "VISION" EMPHASIZING THAT INDIANA NEEDS SOMEONE WITH URGENCY AND AMBITIOUS ASPIRATION TO HELP LEAD THE STATE.

CHAMBERS OVERSAW A SHIFT IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY AT IEDC WITH AN EMPHASIS ON SPENDING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BUY UP LAND AND PREPARE IT FOR COMPANIES TO LOCATE ON WITHOUT KNOWIN WHETHER THAT INVESTMENT WILL PAY OFF.

PRIOR TO HIS TIME IN STATE GOVERNMENT, CHAMBERS LED A REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT FIRM FOR DECADES.

HE NOW JOINS A GOP PRIMARY THAT INCLUDES MIKE BRAUN, SUZANNE CROUCH, ERIC DOTEN, AND FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL CURTIS HILL.

>> DESTINY WELLS, CONSIDERING WHO IS ALREADY IN THE FIELD, INCLUDING AN INDEPENDENTLY WEALTHY FORMER HEAD OF THE INDIANA ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, DOES A BRAD CHAMBERS RUN FOR GOVERNOR MAKE A LOT OF SENSE?

>> I THINK PROBABLY IN THE ECHO CHAMBER OF THE ESTABLISHMENT THAT HE IS LISTENING TO RIGHT NOW, IT DOES MAKE SENSE.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF CANDIDATES.

IT'S FRACTURED, AND SO MAYBE SOMEBODY WITH LOW NAME ID LIKE BRAD CHAMBERS, IT WOULD MAKE SENSE.

HOWEVER, I'M NOT SURE THAT HE IS GOING TO RESONATE WITH A LOT OF THE ELECTORATE OUTSIDE OF THAT ESTABLISHMENT.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE KNOWN FOR TAKING FARMLAND, STEALING WATER, YOU MAY NOT RESONATE WITH THE RURAL INDIANA.

BILLIONAIRE BRAD MAY HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WHEN IT COMES TO RURAL INDIANA.

>> I FEEL LIKE SO MANY THINGS I COULD USE TO DESCRIBE BRAD CHAMBERS.

I CAN USE TO DESCRIBE ERIC DOTEN WHO HAS BEEN IN THIS RACE FOR TWO YEARS.

WHAT DOES CHAMBERS SEE THAT THE REST OF US DON'T SEEM TO SEE?

>> WELL, FIRST I WOULD SAY IT SEEMS LIKE THE DEMOCRATS ARE WORRIED ABOUT HIM, SO WE COULD START WITH THAT.

I THINK THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE FOUR, NOW FIVE CANDIDATES IN THIS RACE AND SOME HAVE BEEN IN FOR MONTHS, SOME HAVE BEEN IN FOR YEARS, BUT YET, IT'S INTERESTING THAT IT STILL FEELS LIKE A PRETTY WIDE OPEN RACE.

YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANY SIGNIFICANT CONSOLIDATION, SO THERE'S -- I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITY FOR A NEW CANDIDATE TO ENTER.

THERE ARE MULTIPLE PATHS TO VICTORY.

I WOULD ESTIMATE AND THINK ABOUT JUST THE NUMBERS.

DEPENDING ON HOW IT GOES, YOU MAY NOT HAVE TO HAVE 50% OF THE VOTE.

YOU MAY NOT THE HAVE TO HAVE WHAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE IS GOING TO BE REALLY TELLING.

HE IS JUST COMING OFF OF A TWO-YEAR STINT OVERSEEING THE STATE'S MOST SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND JOB CREATION IN STATE HISTORY, SO THE CONTRAST WITH THEM OBVIOUSLY IS THE MOST RECENT LAST COUPLE OF YEARS VERSUS A RECORD PREVIOUSLY, BUT I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL STRONG CANDIDATES WHO HAVE A CASE TO MAKE, BUT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT AFTER THIS AMOUNT OF TIME THERE'S STILL OPPORTUNITY, AND I WOULD EXPECT THAT HE'S SURVEYED THAT.

>> WHEN CURTIS HILL JOINED THE RACE IN ADDITION TO SOME OTHER STUFF WE TALKED ABOUT WITH CURTIS HILL, WE TALKED ABOUT WHO SHOULD BE MOST WORRIED OF THE CANDIDATES WHO WERE ALREADY IN OF CURTIS HILL TAKING SUPPORT AWAY FROM THEM TO HIMSELF.

SHOULD ERIC DODEN BE REALLY CONCERNED HERE?

>> CONVENTIONAL WISDOM WOULD SUGGEST THAT THAT IS -- LET'S GO BACK TO THE TERMINOLOGY THAT YOU USED AND SET THE STAGE WITH THIS DISCUSSION WITH, AND THAT IS LANES.

THEY'RE BOTH IF THIS WERE A SWIM MEET OR TRACK MEET, THEY'RE BOTH JOCKEYING FOR THE SAME SET OF BLOCKS OR THE SAME WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL -- WHAT DO YOU CALL IT AT A SWIM MEET?

THE SAME PLACE YOU JUMP OFF TO START THE TECHNICAL TERM IF WE MAY.

>> SURE.

>> AND THAT'S WHERE -- THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE THE MESSAGE.

NOT JUST THE MESSAGE, BUT THE CREDENTIALS, THE BACKGROUND.

VERY SIMILAR WITH THE TWO OF THEM IN TERMS OF THEIR FOCUS ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND MAKING SURE THAT INDIANA IS WELL-POSITIONED FOR ECONOMIC GROWTH IDEALLY IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

AGAIN, I GO BACK TO WHAT I SAID A MINUTE AGO.

IT SEEMS TO ME A GENERAL ELECTION STRATEGY AND WHAT'S SALEABLE AT A GENERAL ELECTION IS SO DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT IS NEEDED THIS DAY AND AGE IN A PRIMARY IN EITHER PARTY.

AGAIN, PRIMARY VOTERS ARE AN ACTIVE GROUP WITHIN THEIR PARTIES ARE ALIKE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET MORE -- LESS PRAYING MATTISM AND MORE ABOUT PHILOSOPHICAL PURITY IN BOTH VEINS.

IN THAT WAY YOU DO QUESTION WHETHER FROM A PURE STRATEGY STANDPOINT TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE IS STILL A FACTION OF ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS AND I GUESS ANYONE'S GUESS AS TO HOW BIG THAT FACTION IS, BUT THAT IS THE UNCROWDED LANE OR ESSENTIALLY THE LANE THAT NOBODY IS IN, PERIOD.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IN A RACE WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF VOTER FRAGMENTATION, AS THERE ALWAYS IS WHEN YOU HAVE MORE THAN TWO, THREE, FOUR QUALIFIED CANDIDATES EQUALLY WELL-FUNDED CANDIDATES, YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO GO WHERE NOBODY ELSE IS.

>> OBVIOUSLY BRAD CHAMBERS HAS ALREADY STARTED AND WILL A LOT OUT OF HE JUST FINISHED RUNNING TWO YEARS OF THE IEDC.

LOOK AT ALL OF THE JOBS AND COMMITMENTS WE'VE BROUGHT IN.

LOOK AT ALL THE INVESTMENT WE'VE BROUGHT INTO INDIANA.

UNLIKE A LOT OF HEADS IN THE PAST, DESTINY POINTED THIS OUT, THAT STRATEGY HAS NOT COME WITHOUT PISING SOME PEOPLE OFF, QUITE FRANKLY.

MAYBE NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT IT'S MADE SOME PEOPLE UPSET.

IS THAT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR BRAD CHAMBERS?

>> ONE THING IN THEIR OWN PRESS RELEASE THEY COUNTED AS A SUCCESS WAS LAUNCHING THE LEAP DISTRICT IN BOONE COUNTY.

FIRST OF ALL, I MEAN, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A SINGLE JOB OUT THERE YET, SO WE'VE SPENT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BUY LAND.

THEY ARE VOLUNTARY SALES, BUT OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE IN BOONE COUNTY HAVE FELT PRESSURED.

WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON THOSE LAND PURCHASES WAY ABOVE VALUE.

WE STILL ONLY HAVE ONE COMMITMENT IN THAT THING, AND NOW YOU'VE ADDED THIS BILLION DOLLAR PIPELINE WE'RE GOING TO BUILD TAKING WATER FROM LAFAYETTE DOWN TO INDY, SO THAT'S DEFINITELY CONTROVERSIAL.

I DON'T THINK WE KNOW IN ANY WAY WHETHER THAT'S A SUCCESS YET OR NOT.

OVERALL TO ME -- >> WE'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW BEFORE PEOPLE ARE CASTING THEIR VOTES NEXT YEAR.

>> THE THING I SEE FROM BRAD CHAMBERS ENTERING, HE IS THE MYSTERY.

I KNOW LITERALLY NOTHING.

SOMEONE ASKED ME, IS HE STRIDENTLY CONSERVATIVE, MORE MODERATE?

IS HE SOCIALLY CONSERVATIVE?

I HAVE NO IDEA.

HE IS A COMPLETE MYSTERY, AND IN SOME WAYS HE GETS TO, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, USE HIS MONEY TO DEFINE HIMSELF NOW.

>> TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE POSE AN UNNFK ONLINE POLL QUESTION, AND THIS WEEK'S QUESTION IS CAN FORMER COMMERCE SECRETARY BRAD CHAMBERS MAKE BE AN IMPACT IN THE GOP GUBERNATORIAL PRIMARY?

A YES AND B NO.

IS THE LATEST ROUND OF COLLEGE SPORTS CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT GOOD FOR STUDENT-ATHLETES?

15% OF YOU SAY YES, OF WHICH I HAPPEN TO AGREE.

85% SAY NO.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART, GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

WELL, GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB SAID HIS OFFICE FOLLOWED THE CORRECT PROCESS WHEN IT BLOCKED DR. CAITLIN BERNARD FROM RECEIVING A STATE AWARD GIVEN TO INDIANA WOMEN WHO MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE COMMUNITY, STATE, AND COUNTRY.

THE INDYSTAR FIRST REPORTED THAT BERNARD HAD BEEN RECOMMENDED TO RECEIVE A TORCH BEARER AWARD BEFORE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE STEPPED IN.

>> BERNARD HAS BEEN IN THE SPOTLIGHT FOR OVER A YEAR SINCE SHE PROVIDED ABORTION CARE TO A 10-YEAR-OLD RAPE VICTIM FROM OHIO AND THEN DISCUSSED THE CASE WITH THE INDYSTAR.

TARGETED BY ATTORNEY GENERAL TODD SHE WAS EVENTUALLY REPRIMANDED BY THE STATE MEDICAL LICENSING BOARD EARLIER THIS YEAR.

HOLE COME SAYS THAT CASE BEFORE THE LICENSING BOARD IS WHY SHE WAS TAKEN OFF A LIST OF RECOMMENDED RECIPIENTS FOR THE TORCH BEARER AWARD.

>> IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE PROCESS IF AN APPLICANT IS SFLOVLD A LEGAL PREEGSD, MAYBE IT'S NOT THE APPROPRIATE TIME FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL, BUT THERE MAY BE A TIME IN THE FUTURE.

>> NOMINEES FOR THE AWARD ARE CHOSEN BY A PANEL OF PAST RECIPIENTS.

AWORD JUDGES TOLD THE INDYSTAR THEY WERE JUST SAID THE NOMINEES NEEDED TO PASS A BACKGROUND CHECK.

>> JOHN SCHWANTES, HOW BIG A DEAL IS THIS?

> WELL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT NOW.

NOT THAT THAT'S NECESSARILY THE INDICATION THAT IT'S A HUGE DEAL, BUT ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE NOW, IT IS -- IT'S GOING TO EXPLODE INTO PUBLIC PERSPECTIVE IT SEEMS TO ME BECAUSE THE FEELINGS ARE SO STRONG ON EACH SIDE.

YOU LOOK AT THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE REWARD -- THE AWARD OR DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THESE TYPES OF ADDITIONAL PREREQUISITES.

YOU CAN'T BE INVOLVED IN ANY LITIGATION, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

IT DOES SEEM AS IF THAT'S BACKFILL.

WHAT KIND OF JUSTIFICATION CAN WE COME UP WITH THAT'S SOMEWHAT LEGITIMATE OTHER THAN SAYING SOMEBODY HAS AN OPINION THAT WE MAY NOT LIKE, AND THAT'S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE.

NOW, LONG-TERM DOES THIS -- NO ONE PROBABLY IS GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS IN A MONTH OR TWO, BUT I GUARANTEE, ANY ISSUE THAT HAS TO DO WITH REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND THE STATE'S ONGOING ATTEMPT AT LEAST IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO CURB THAT IS GOING TO GET ATTENTION THAT IT NEVER WOULD HAVE IN THE PAST.

P>> I MEAN, THE THING THAT STRUCK ME WAS, AND THE STAR STORY POINTED THIS OUT, BETTY COCHRAN RECEIVED THIS AWARD.

SHE WAS THE LONG-TIME NOTABLE HEAD OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD AND RECEIVED THIS AWARD A FEW YEARS BACK.

FROM THAT ANGLE, PLANNED PARENTHOOD, WHO IS CONSTANTLY INVOLVED IN LITIGATION AGAINST THE STATE OF INDIANA.

DOES THIS EXPLANATION HOLD WATER TO YOU?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK WITH MOST OF THESE THINGS IT'S ABOUT TRANSPARENCY.

THE GROUP OF JUDGES WHO VOTED ON THIS RECOMMENDATION CLEARLY WERE NEVER TOLD NONE OF THESE PEOPLE CAN BE INVOLVED IN LITIGATION BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WHY WOULD YOU EVEN HAVE THEM DO THAT WORK AND DO THE BACKGROUND CHECK IF THAT WAS GOING TO BE AN AUTOMATIC CHECK-OFF?

THAT SHOULD BE AT THE FRONT END, NOT THE BACK END, WHICH I THINK GOES TO SAY THAT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WAS PROBABLY SURPRISED TO GET THAT UNANIMOUS RECOMMENDATION AND KIND OF HAD TO SCRAMBLE A BIT.

>> TO THAT POINT THIS IS A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF JUDGES.

THESE ARE NOT ALL DEMOCRATS, AND CERTAINLY NOT ALL REPUBLICANS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY KNEW WHO CAITLIN BERNARD WAS.

WHILE THIS WAS GOING ON, WHILE THEY HAD -- AT THE POINT WHEN THEY RECOMMENDED HER, THE MEDICAL LICENSING BOARD HAD ALREADY MADE ITS DECISION.

THEY SIMPLY HADN'T OFFICIALLY FINALIZED IT, WHICH TAKES PLACE I THINK IT'S 90 DAYS LATER, 60 DAYS LATER.

P>> WRITING IT UP FORMALLY.

>> SO THEY KNEW THIS WAS GOING ON.

THEY TOOK IT INTO CONSIDERATION.

STILL GAVE A UNANIMOUS RECOMMEND DAEGS.

SO, AGAIN, I'LL ASK YOU THE SAME THING I ASKED TO HER.

DOES THIS EXPLANATION HOLD WATER?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WHAT THIS MESSAGE SENDS -- OR WHAT THIS SAYS IS THAT WOMEN CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO CHOOSE WHO THEIR OWN HEROES ARE.

I MEAN, THIS WAS A BIPARTISAN SELECTION COMMITTEE OF FORMER AWARDEES, AND I BELIEVE I REMEMBER THE GOVERNOR SAYING LAST YEAR THAT DESPITE THE CHARACTER OF THE PERSON, IF THEY WERE A BENEFACTOR OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HE WOULD VOTE FOR THEM.

SO I'M PRETTY SURE THAT DR. BERNARD IS NOT A REPUBLICAN AND, IN FACT, ONE OF THE ENEMIES OF THE PARTY AFTER THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S ATTACK ON HER LAST YEAR.

>> I AGREE WITH JON.

I DON'T THINK THIS WILL LAST MUCH LONGER, OBVIOUSLY.

I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT NOW.

IT'S NOTABLE RIGHT NOW, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE REMEMBERED LONG AFTER.

IN THE MIDST OF A TEAM WHEN DOCTORS AND PARTICULARLY DOCTORS IN CAITLIN BERNARD'S PROFESSION, OB-GYNs AND THE LIKE, ARE TAKING A LONG LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO STAY IN THE STATE OF INDIANA SDSHGS THIS ADD ONE MORE PIECE TO THAT PUZZLE OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THIS IS A WELCOMING PLACE FOR FOLKS LIKE THAT?

>> I DOUBT IT.

I THINK THAT'S OVERBLOWN.

I THINK YOUR CHARACTERIZATION IS REALLY OVER THE TOP.

I DON'T THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR OR ANYONE IN THE ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T THINK WOMEN CAN'T CHOOSE THEIR OWN HEROES.

TO ME THIS IS A KIND OF COMMON SENSE SITUATION THAT IS NOT TERRIBLY SURPRISING.

I MEAN, EVEN IF IT WAS JUST AFTER THE MEDICAL LICENSING BOARD, STATE MEDICAL LICENSING BOARD, JUST FOUND THAT.

I JUST THINK IT'S -- I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY ALSO A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN SOME OTHER SCENARIOS.

I JUST THINK IT'S KIND OF BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION.

>> KEEP IN MIND, WHEN YOU LOOK AT NEW RULES OF ENGAGEMENT FOR THESE KINDS OF COMPETITIONS OR RECOGNITION PROCESSES, AT ANY POINT AS THE HEAD OF STATE GOVERNOR, THE GOVERNOR OF THIS STATE OR ANY OTHER, IS OFTEN CITED AS A LAWSUIT IN LITIGATION, AND I AM GUESSING -- I HAVE NOT CHECKED THIS OUT.

I MAY BE WRONG, BUT I DON'T THINK I AM.

THERE ARE ANY NUMBER OF SUITS PENDING WHERE BECAUSE OF HIS ROLE, AS THE HEAD OF STATE GOVERNMENT, ERIC HOLCOMB IS INVOLVED IN LITIGATION AS A DEFENDANT, AS ARE PROBABLY EVERY OTHER GOVERNOR IN THIS COUNTRY.

I GUESS THAT PUTS THE KABOSH ON THE OPPORTUNITY FOR SIMILARLY SITUATED INDIVIDUALS TO VIE FOR THIS AWARD.

>> THIS ALL SEEMS DIFFERENT TO ME.

I'M SURE THAT'S THE CASE.

I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHER CANDIDATES WHO MAY HAVE BEEN NAMED IN OR GOT A SPEEDING TICKET OR SOMETHING.

I JUST THINK THIS IS A PARTICULARLY DIFFERENT, UNIQUE SITUATION THAT -- >> WHY SAY IT'S BECAUSE OF THAT REASON, THOUGH?

IF YOU WANT TO SAY IT IS BECAUSE -- YOU'RE SAYING IT'S DIFFERENT, AND I STIPULATE.

I'LL AGREE WITH YOU IT'S DIFFERENT.

IT'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S POLITICALLY CHARGED.

>> MASS LITIGATION THAT THE GOVERNOR IS NAMED IN ON THE STATE OR ANYTHING ELSEWHERE IT'S NOT PRIMARILY RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW.

>> READING COMPETENCY FOR INDIANA'S THIRD GRADERS IS STAGNANT AND REMAINS NEAR THE LOWEST POINT IN A DECADE, ACCORDING TO JUST RELEASED DATA THIS WEEK.

FROM WFYI'S EDUCATIN DESK, WHY IS THERE SO MUCH CONCERN FOR YOUNG READERS?

>> IN THIRD GRADE STUDENTS TAKE A LITERACY ASSESSMENT CALLED I-READ-3.

PASSING IT IS A CRUCIAL MILESTONE.

BECAUSE IT SHOWS WHETHER A STUDENT CAN LEARN FROM READING TEXT AND COMPREHENDING IT.

BUT NEARLY ONE IN FIVE STUDENTS FAILED THE TEST, EDUCATION SECRETARY KATIE JENNER SAYS, THE STRUGGLE TO TEACH INDIANA STUDENTS TO READ HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A DECADE.

>> I THINK KEY FOR US TO ACKNOWLEDGE, FOR SCHOOLS TO ACKNOWLEDGE AS WE URGENTLY HAVE TO OVERCOME THIS.

>> JENNER AND LAWMAKERS ARE HOPEFUL THAT A NEW LAW MANDATING A READING CURRICULUM ALIGN TO THE SCIENCE OF READING WILL LEAD TO IMPROVEMENTS, BUT RESULTS COULD TAKE YEARS.

>> NIKI KELLY, KATIE JENNER TALKED ABOUT THIS.

IS THE PANDEMIC STILL BEING USED TOO MUCH AS AN EXCUSE BY SOME TO MASK DEEPER ISSUES IN THE EDUCATION SYSTEM?

>> I THINK IT IS TIME TO -- LOOK, WE SEE THE DIRECT IMPACT, BUT IT IS TIME TO LOOK FURTHER INTO HOW WE CAN DO THIS, AND I THINK THERE WAS AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION AT THE STATE BOARD ABOUT A FEW REASONS THAT MIGHT BE CAUSING THIS.

ONE OF THEM WAS LOOKING AT TRUANCY THAT A LOT OF THESE STUDENTS WHO AREN'T PROFICIENT ARE MISSING TOO MUCH SCHOOL AND WHETHER WE NEED TO WORK WITH PROSECUTORS ON THAT.

I THINK WE VERY RARELY RETAIN KIDS ANYMORE.

AS KATIE JENNER TOLD US, I THINK IT'S, LIKE, IF YOU REACH 169 DAYS A YEAR, IF YOU ARE IN SCHOOL 169 DAYS A YEAR, YOUR CHANCES OF PASSING THE STANDARDIZED TESTING GOES UP DRAMATICALLY.

SO I THINK THAT'S A FAIR DISCUSSION IF WE START LOOKING INTO TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, TRUANCY ISSUES, AND WE'VE GOT TO MOVE PAST THE PANDEMIC AT SOME POINT.

WE ARE WHERE WE ARE, AND THEY WERE IN SCHOOL ALL LAST YEAR, AND WE STILL DIDN'T IMPROVE.

>> WE'RE ALSO AS A STATE LOOKING AT HOW WE'RE TEACHING KIDS TO READ.

WE JUST SAW LEGISLATION THIS PAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION FROM, AMONG OTHERS, SENATOR AARON FREEMAN WHO IS PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS TOPIC ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF READING AND HOW WE NEED TO GET TO THE BEST POSSIBLE WAY TO TEACH KIDS HOW TO READ.

THE PROBLEM IS, OF COURSE, THAT AS WE'RE STARTING TO INTRODUCE THAT, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE WHILE FOR THAT TO SHOW UP.

TAKING A GLASS HALF FULL APPROACH, IS IT AT LEAST GOOD THAT WE AREN'T CONTINUING TO DROP?

>> I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING WE CAN ALL CELEBRATE, RIGHT?

I WAS JOKING THEY DON'T MAKE FOAM FINGERS FOR WE'RE NUMBER 40-WHATEVER THAT YOU CAN WAVE IN THE STANDS.

IT'S BETTER NOT TO DROP.

AT THE SAME TIME WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING AS FUNDAMENTAL AS THE PROFICIENCY WHICH IS A BUILDING SUBJECT AREA, WHICH IS A BUILDING BLOCK FOR THE REST OF EDUCATIONAL CAREER, IT'S TOUGH.

TO NIKI'S POINT, YOU CAN'T BLAME PANDEMIC FOREVER, AND THIS HAS TO DO WITH EVERYTHING FROM PARENTAL INVOLVE SXMT STABILITY ON THE HOMEFRONT AND ACCOUNT ACT OF PARENTS THAT SAY HAVE YOU DONE YOUR HOMEWORK AND LET'S SIT DOWN AND DO THIS TO READ A BOOK, WHATEVER.

NUTRITION.

ARE KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL WHERE THEIR STOMACH IS SAYING FORGET ABOUT THE PHONETICS OF SOUNDING OUT THAT WORD.

I JUST NEED SOMETHING IN MY STOMACH.

THERE ARE SO MANY PERSONAL SAFETY ISSUES.

IF YOU CAN'T FEEL SAFE TO AND FROM THE CLASSROOM, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP EITHER.

IT'S A HOLIST YOU CAN ISSUE.

IT'S EASY TO BREAK IT OUT.

IT'S A TOUGH NUT TO CRACK.

>> THAT'S "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT DESTINY WELLS, REPUBLICAN JENNIFER HOLLOWELL, JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS AND NIKI KELLY OF THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

YOU CAN FIND "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" REVIEW"'S PODCAST AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR THE PBS APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

♪ >> >> THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

"INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA'S PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

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