GEOFF BENNETT: Today marks the deadline for# journalists to decide whether to comply with## the Defense Department's new rules, a# requirement for keeping the credentials## that allow them to access the Pentagon.

The# Pentagon's chief spokesperson has described## the new policy as common sense, but virtually# every news organization, to include PBS News,## has refused to sign it, arguing that it# infringes on First Amendment protections.

PETE HEGSETH, U.S.

Defense# Secretary: Where there was## a historic outcome.. GEOFF BENNETT: For decades,# reporters have held building## passes that let them freely enter the# Pentagon to attend press briefings,## meet with officials and talk with sources# as they report on the Defense Department.

But now, in order to keep those credentials, the# Trump administration is requiring journalists to## comply with a policy that says reporters# cannot solicit or obtain any information## the Defense Department does not explicitly# authorize.

Doing so, the Pentagon says, would## be a criminal act and would not be considered# protected activity under the First Amendment.

It follows Sean Parnell, the Defense Department's# chief spokesperson, posting on social media:## "Despite many statements to the contrary,# journalists are not required to clear## stories with us.

They retain robust access# to our public affairs offices, the Briefing## Room and the ability to ask questions,# which we continue to answer thoroughly.

"The only change is an overdue# update to our credentialing process,## which hasn't been revised# in years, if not decades,## to align with modern security standards.

Access# to the Pentagon is a privilege, not a right."

Today, at the White House, the defense# secretary defended the new policy.

PETE HEGSETH: It used to be, Mr.# President, the press could go anywhere,## pretty much anywhere in the Pentagon, the most# classified area in the world, or also that,## if they sign on to the credentialing,# they're not going to try to get soldiers## to break the law by giving classified# information.

So it's commonsense stuff.

GEOFF BENNETT: For more on this,# we turn now to Nancy Youssef,## a staff writer at "The Atlantic" who# covers national security issues.

And## David Schulz is director of the Media Freedom# and Information Access Clinic at Yale University,## and he advised the Pentagon Press Association on# how to handle the Defense Department's new rules.

Thank you both for being here.

David, we will start with you.

You heard the defense secretary# say this i.. they're just modernizing the rules.# You argue that this policy criminalizes## routine reporting.

So what exactly in# the language makes it so objectionable?

DAVID SCHULZ, Media Freedom and Information# Access Clinic Director, Yale Law School: Yes, I## would say there's two things .. One is, as was mentioned just now, that# it says that it's improper to solicit## information if it has not been approved# for release.

But what the Pentagon calls## illegal solicitation, we would call news# gathering.

And more important than the label,## soliciting information is an activity# protected by the First Amendment.

And, beyond that, the Pentagon is requiring# reporters for the first time to affirm in## writing that they understand that national# security is harmed by disclosing information## the Pentagon has not approved for# release, even if that information## is unclassified.We know that is not true.# Even information that's classified can often## be disclosed without harm, and the public# interest sometimes compels its disclosure.

Affirming up front that harm can# occur from reporting information## if it's not officially approved# is anathema to a free market,## a free democracy.

And it's information that could# be used against a reporter in future litigation.

Indeed, the place where reporters are being asked## to sign has a large privacy# notice across the top of it,## making clear that the document can be used by# the Pentagon in court.

So I would say the obvious## intent here is to intimidate and chill reporting# on anything that's not officially disclosed.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, Nancy, why is it# so important for reporters to have## in access -- in-person access to the Pentagon,# to actually walk the halls and talk to people?

NANCY YOUSSEF, "The Atlantic": Well,# remember, this is an organization that## uses nearly a trillion dollars of taxpayer# money, employs three million people.

And so being able to get as much information to# the public as possible about what is happening in## that building, the decisions that are being made# about consequential national security decisions## is critical to our reporting.

It allows us# to bring the kind of nuance and detail to## make for the most accurate reporting on issues# as important as when the nation goes to war.

GEOFF BENNETT: And we should say# that reporters don't have access## to classified areas at the Pentagon.# What safeguards already exist to prevent## journalists from accidentally accessing or# publishing classified or sensitive material?

NANCY YOUSSEF: So, first of all, we wear# badges every day.

And not only do we wear## badges.

They identify us as press.# We swipe in and out of the building,## so they can see when we're there.

And you have to# go through a background check to get that pass.

Secondly, the Pentagon is a big office# building with lots and lots of offices## that are secured.

And so there's# not classified information sort of## haphazardly thrown around.

It's put in secure# rooms and rooms that we don't have access to.

And I would note that the Pentagon has not# identified some security breach involving## reporters that shows that there has been a# violation of these rules.

And so I think what you## have seen is a press that has been allowed to talk# to officials, understand decisions that are being## made, and handle information, as we are trusted# to do by the public and in a responsible way.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, based on your reporting,# what is driving this policy?

Why is the Pentagon## doing this now, when no other federal# agency has anything like this in place?

NANCY YOUSSEF: Well, since Secretary# Hegseth arrived at the building,## he has been aggressively going after# access for journalists, within weeks,## required some news agencies to vacate# their desk and vacate their news booths.

He has indicated that, when he doesn't like# coverage, that there should be repercussions## for it.

We have seen a secretary who has# only had two press briefings in the 10## months he's been in office.

We have had less# information than we have ever had before.

Even## before these rules were put in place, we have seen# restrictions on our ability to obtain information.

You mentioned earlier in the show the strikes# on boats in Venezuela.

Until this day,## we don't know what kind of ordnance was# used, who's conducting those strikes,## whether they're from drones or from# ships, or even who's on those boats.

And so, from the beginning, we have seen a# secretary that has been quite aggressive in## pursuing journalists who write information## that goes against what he and# his department want released.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, David, building on one# of Nancy's points, you point to what you## see as hypocrisy, that the recent security# breaches within the Pentagon have come from## within the Defense Department, not from# journalists.

Tell me more about that.

DAVID SCHULZ: Yes.

Yes.

I just want to underscore what Nancy just# said.

There is abs.. new policy and no justification for requiring# reporters to sign these statements.

As she said,## no other agency does it.

They don't do it to# the White House.

They don't do it at the State## Department.

And we should be clear.

There# was no problem that prompted this change.

And I do think it's a bit more -- a bit more than# hypocritical to suggest that this is commonsense## stuff that needs to be taken to protect national# security, given that the major leaks of classified## information during this administration have# come from the top, starting with the casual use## of Signal by the secretary himself.

It's not# reporters that are breaching protocols here.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, looking ahead,## how will this change the way you and# your colleagues report o.. NANCY YOUSSEF: Well, I should# start by saying we will continue## to report on the Pentagon and do so# aggressively, as we have always done.

I think what will be lost is the opportunity# for the American public to see troops.

We## won't be able to do things like go on# ships with sailors.

We won't be able to## go in Humvees with troops.

We won't have that# kind of detail that I think has really added## nuance to the reporting and to the public's# understanding of national security and where## we ask America's sons and daughters to# deploy and potentially be in harm's way.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nancy Youssef, David Schulz,## thank you both for your perspectives# and insights.

We appreciate it.

NANCY YOUSSEF: Thank you.