FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, HOW MANY OFFICERS IS ENOUGH?

ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR TIM KELLER SAYS APD WILL FALL SHORT OF STAFFING GOALS BUT ARE WE USING THE OFFICERS WE HAVE CORRECTLY?

AND -- >> Martha: ASKING POLITELY TO BIGOTS IS NEVER GOING TO MAKE SOCIAL CHANGE.

>> Gene: THE IMPACT OF PROTEST 20 YEARS LATER.

THIS MASTERS WEEK MARTHA BURK RECOUNTS HER STAND FOR EQUALITY AT AUGUSTA NATIONAL GOLF CLUB AND REFLECTS ON THE PROGRESS WE STILL NEED TO MAKE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

IN 2003 WOMEN'S RIGHTS ACTIVIST MARTHA BURK LED A PROTEST AGAINST AUGUSTA NATIONAL FOR ITS MALE ONLY MEMBERSHIP RULE, A RALLYING CRY AGAINST DISCRIMINATION ON THE GOLF COURSE AND IN THE BOARD ROOMS OF CORPORATE AMERICA THAT CAPTIVATED THE NATION BACK THEN.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF OUR SHOW NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS' NEW EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, JEFF PROCTOR, SITS DOWN WITH MARTHA BURK TO LOOK BACK AT THAT PROTEST AND ITS RIPPLE EFFECTS TODAY.

SEVERAL OIL AND GAS PRODUCERS ARE FACING POLLUTING FINES, THANKS TO THE WORK OF JOURNALIST JERRY REDFERN.

JERRY'S FOLLOWED THE IN AND OUTS OF THE NEW MEXICO FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY FOR YEARS NOW AND IN LESS THAN 15 MINUTES, OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS ASKS HIM HOW HIS REPORTING CAUGHT THE ATTENTION OF STATE OFFICIALS.

BUT FIRST WE TURN OUR ATTENTION TO ALBUQUERQUE AS THE MAYOR HAS INTRODUCED HIS BUDGET PROPOSAL FOR THE NEXT YEAR, ONE THAT CALLS FOR FEWER POLICE OFFICERS THAN HE ONCE PROMISED.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

WE ARE HAPPY TO BE JOINED IN PERSON IN OUR ALBUQUERQUE STUDIOS BY ATTORNEY LAURA SANCHEZ.

IT HAS BEEN A WHILE SINCE SHE HAS BEEN HERE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU LAURA.

RADIO HOST AT KKOB 96.3 FM, T.J. TROUT IS HERE, A LEGEND HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

AND A POLITICAL LEGEND HERSELF, FORMER STATE SENATOR DIANE SNYDER.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

NOW WE START THIS WEEK WITH A LOOK AT THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE CITY'S PLANS FOR IT IN THE NEXT PHYSICAL YEAR.

ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR TIM KELLER INTRODUCED HIS PROPOSED BUDGET FOR 2024 LAST WEEK AND INCLUDED MONEY FOR 1,000 OFFICERS AT APD, KEEP A PIN IN THAT NUMBER, QUITE A FEW LESS THAN THE MAYOR'S ORIGINAL GOAL OF 1200 OFFICERS DURING HIS CAMPAIGN.

THE CITY HAS PREVIOUSLY BUDGETED THE DEPARTMENT FOR 1100, BUT ACCORDING TO THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL THE DEPARTMENT HAS JUST 856 SWORN OFFICERS AS OF LAST WEEK.

T.J., WE START WITH YOU HERE.

WHY HAS THIS BEEN SUCH A TRADITIONALLY DIFFICULT PROBLEM TO ATTRACT AND KEEP OFFICERS HERE?

TALK ABOUT THAT 1200 NUMBER IN A SECOND BUT THE 856, WHY CAN'T WE GET MORE OFFICERS HERE?

WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> T.J.: YOU KNOW, YOU SAY HERE AND I DON'T THINK IT IS HERE.

I THINK IT IS EVERYWHERE.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS AN ALBUQUERQUE PROBLEM.

OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE OUR PROBLEMS.

WE ALL KNOW, WE ALL TALK ABOUT CRIME ALL THE TIME.

ON MY AIR WE TALK ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME, BUT THIS IS NOT AN ALBUQUERQUE PROBLEM.

IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, THIS IS NATIONWIDE.

NO ONE WANTS TO BE A COP ANYMORE.

NOBODY WANTS TO DO IT.

IS THIS REFLECTIVE OF JUST POST COVID STUFF WHERE NOBODY WANTS TO WORK ANYMORE IN GENERAL OR DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POST GEORGE FLOYD/DEFUND THE POLICE STUFF AND COPS SEE THIS STUFF AND THEY SAY I DON'T WANT TO BE A COP NOW.

I TALK TO A LOT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE ON MY AIR, CURRENT, FORMER, PROBABLY FUTURE, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THEY SAY, TOO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SO FEW COPS ON THE STREET RIGHT NOW AND THERE ARE SO FEW, THERE IS NO TIME FOR REAL POLICING.

THEY CANNOT DO POLICE WORK BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE BIKE PATROLS WE USED TO HAVE, THE HORSE PATROLS WE USED TO HAVE, THINGS LIKE THAT, BECAUSE ALL THEY ARE DOING RIGHT NOW IS GOING FROM EMERGENCY TO EMERGENCY.

THEY GET A 911 CALL, GOES TO THIS, TO THIS CALL, TO THIS CALL.

SO THEY ARE PUTTING OUT FIRES INSTEAD OF BEING ABLE TO DO REAL CRIME PREVENTIVE STUFF AND COMMUNITY POLICE WORK.

THEY DON'T HAVE TIME.

RIGHT NOW, I WAS TOLD IT IS ALL IT IS NOW IS CRISIS MANAGEMENT AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE YOUR ANSWER WHY PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO DO THIS.

>> Gene: SENATOR, I HAVE GOT AN INTERESTING POINT HERE, ACCORDING TO THE U.S. CENSUS ALBUQUERQUE WAS JUST OVER 500,000.

IN THE LOCAL -- THAT IS ABOUT 1.5 OFFICERS FOR EVERY 1,000 PEOPLE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

BUT THE OPEN QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF OFFICERS.

WE HAVE GONE FROM 1200 TO 1100, NOW IT IS 1000.

ARE WE JUDGING THESE THINGS THE RIGHT WAY?

>> Diane: I DON'T THINK THAT WE ARE.

I AM GOING TO SAY A LOT OF THINGS HERE AND I AM NOT FAULTING ANYBODY BECAUSE A LOT OF WHAT I READ ON THE RESEARCH ON THIS, ONE DEMOCRAT MAYOR BLAMED THE REPUBLICAN MAYOR AND VICE VERSA AND I AM SO TIRED OF HEARING THAT THAT I DON'T CARE ANYMORE.

I HAVE MY OWN PERSONAL BELIEFS BUT THAT IS ONE THING.

THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN THAT I AM RIGHT ABOUT THE SOLUTION TO OUR PROBLEM.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FOUND IN ALL THIS IS NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHAT IS THE RIGHT NUMBER?

THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS JUST OVER 2%.

2.8 IS WHAT IT IS PER 1000 PEOPLE.

AND AS YOU SAID, WE ARE AT 1.5, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO, WE'RE BELOW BUT TWO THINGS OCCURRED.

EVERY POLITICIAN TELLS US, INCLUDING OUR CURRENT AND PREVIOUS, THAT WE ARE -- I AM GOING TO INCREASE IT TO 1000, 1200, WE ARE GOING TO GET THIS CRIME UNDER CONTROL AND THEN THAT NEVER HAPPENS.

THEY FOCUS SO MUCH ON TRYING TO FIND PEOPLE.

AND AN INTERESTING ARTICLE THAT WE READ, JEFF PROCTOR'S ARTICLE FROM 2011 WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW WE HAVE CUT BACK THE REQUIREMENTS.

IT USED TO BE YOU WERE REQUIRED TO HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE.

NOW PRETTY MUCH IF YOU'RE BREATHING, AND I AM NOT BEING TACKY, BUT I JUST -- THERE IS SO MANY DIFFERENT RELAXATIONS OF THE REQUIREMENTS AND THE QUOTES THAT WERE USED COMING FROM THE PEOPLE DOING THE TRAINING AT THE POLICE ACADEMY THAT THAT IS HAPPENING.

>> Gene: WE GOT THE RESULTS FROM THE CITY ON THAT.

>> Diane: WE GOT THE RESULTS.

WE ARE DOING -- TRYING TO DO RIGHT ON ONE SIDE BUT WE ARE DOING SO MUCH WRONG TRYING TO MEET THAT GOAL OF 1000 PEOPLE I WANT THE POLITICIANS TO STOP TELLING ME.

I WANT THEM THAT -- IF THEY ARE GOING TO DO 1000 OR 1200.

I WANT THEM TO SAY, WE HAVE 856 RIGHT NOW, MY GOAL IS TO HAVE 900 BY THE END OF MY FIRST TERM FULLY QUALIFIED, FULLY TRAINED, PUT THE REQUIREMENTS BACK IN AND THEN THE OTHER PIECE IS WHERE ARE WE ASSIGNING THE OFFICERS THAT WE HAVE?

>> Gene: LET ME TURN TO LAURA ON THAT VERY QUESTION.

I WANT TO FOLLOW-UP WHAT SENATOR MENTIONED ABOUT THE 1.5 HERE IN THE CITY.

NEW YORK CITY IS AT 4.1.

WASHINGTON DC 5.3, DETROIT 3.8.

SO IN PERSPECTIVE WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF COPS ON THE STREET SO THAT GOES TO THE QUESTION, LAURA, GO TO YOU AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, ARE WE USING THESE FOLKS THE RIGHT WAY?

T.J.

MENTIONED THE TRIAGE EARLIER.

THEY CAN ONLY ANSWER HEAVY DUTY CALLS, NOT MUCH COMMUNITY POLICING.

THAT WAS A TERM HERE ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO.

NO ONE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITY POLICING ANYMORE, BECAUSE YOU NEED THE NUMBERS.

IT IS HARD TO PIN DOWN.

>> Laura: IT IS.

I THINK IT IS A LITTLE BIT OF CHICKEN OR EGG, RIGHT?

I MEAN WE HAVE A POLICE FORCE THAT IS RESPONDING TO A LOT OF CRISES SITUATIONS BUT WE HAVE CRISES SITUATIONS THAT NEED TO BE RESPONDED TO, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT -- I MEAN THEY HAVE TO RESPOND TO THOSE.

WE HAVE SO MANY HOMICIDES OCCURRING.

I MEAN, WE ARE BARELY IN THE FOURTH MONTH OF THE YEAR AND ALREADY WE HAVE AN INSANE NUMBER.

EVERY NIGHT YOU SEE ANOTHER HOMICIDE, SO, OF COURSE, THEY ARE GOING TO BE DOING SOME TRIAGE.

AND THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF IT.

AS YOU INCREASE THE NUMBER OF QUALIFIED, TRAINED PEOPLE HOPEFULLY THEY CAN START TO DO MORE OF THAT COMMUNITY POLICING MODEL, SPEND MORE TIME GETTING TO KNOW THE COMMUNITY, ALL OF THAT, BUT UNTIL WE GET TO THOSE NUMBERS, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE RESPONDING TO THE CRISIS SITUATIONS.

>> Gene: SHOULD WE BE COUNTING CADETS IN THE NEW FOLKS INSIDE THE DEPARTMENT WHO ARE NOT SWORN OFFICERS BUT THE SOCIAL WORKERS AND HAVING THOSE FOLKS GO OUT FOR SOME CALLS INSTEAD.

SHOULD WE COUNT THOSE FOLKS IN THE NUMBER OF THIS 856.

IS IT FUNDAMENTALLY BIGGER.

>> Laura: I MEAN 1000, 1200, 1100 IT DEPENDS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ACTUAL QUALIFIED POLICE OFFICERS THAT ARE TRAINED THE RIGHT WAY, THAT WAY WE EXPECT A POLICE OFFICER TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO ANY SITUATION, CRIME IN GENERAL, THEN, I MEAN, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I AM NOT SURE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FOLKS WHO DO MORE SOCIAL WORK TYPE.

IT'S STILL AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE SOLUTION BUT I THINK TRANSPARENCY IS IMPORTANT SO IF WE ARE COUNTING THEM, THEN LET'S FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THEIR ROLE AND WHAT IS THE NUMBER ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO BE.

I THINK IT IS A GOOD MOVE ON THE ADMINISTRATION'S PART TO BE REALISTIC WITH THEIR GOALS.

IT IS ONE THING TO JOIN A CAMPAIGN TO COME UP WITH A NUMBER AND FOCUS ON THAT, RIGHT, BUT AS YOU'RE WORKING THROUGH THE PROCESS AND IN TERMS OF GOOD GOVERNMENT, GOOD ADMINISTRATION AND YOU REALIZE THAT THERE ARE SERIOUS CHALLENGES TO INCREASING THE NUMBERS AT THAT LEVEL, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE GOING TO DRAMATICALLY RELAX THE REQUIREMENTS, THEN SCALE IT BACK, BE TRANSPARENT ABOUT IT.

1000 POLICE OFFICERS IS A GOOD GOAL TO HAVE BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF THIS ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE WE ARE AT SUCH A LOW LEVEL AT 856.

LET'S FIGURE OUT HOW WE GET FOLKS IN THERE AND NOT CUT CORNERS TO DO IT.

>> Gene: T.J., I HAVE GOT SOMETHING FOR YOU HERE.

WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT 2011 ARTICLE FROM JEFF PROCTOR, OUR NEW EXECUTIVE PRODUCER HERE, AND WE ARE GLAD TO HAVE HIM.

FORMER APD LIEUTENANT STEVE KATES DIRECTOR OF TRAINING AT POLICE ACADEMY BETWEEN 2003, 2006 SAID, QUOTE, WE WERE CLEAR THAT WE WERE TO GET TO 1100 OFFICERS PERIOD.

SO, HIRING HAPPENED THAT WAS NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE DEPARTMENT OR THE COMMUNITIES.

HAVE WE LEARNED OR LESSON FROM THAT?

THERE IS A LIEUTENANT CONFESSING THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THE STREET IN HIS OWN DEPARTMENT ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE THERE.

>> T.J.: WE ARE STUCK BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE RIGHT NOW.

WE NEED MORE COPS.

BUT WE DON'T NEED SOCIOPATHS ON THE STREET.

>> Laura: WITH A GUN.

>> T.J.: RIGHT.

AND I AM NOT -- DON'T CALL ME AND TELL ME I AM CALLING COPS SOCIOPATHS.

I AM NOT BUT WE NEED GOOD QUALIFIED PEOPLE.

>> Gene: THE PROPOSED BUDGET FROM THE MAYOR CALLS FOR BEEFING UP THE ALBUQUERQUE COMMUNITY SAFETY DEPARTMENT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT A SECOND AGO.

IS THAT THE SOLUTION HERE?

ARE WE SO HUNG UP ON BADGES WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT OTHER WAYS -- >> T.J.: LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, MENTAL HEALTH IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I MEAN THAT IS NOT WITHSTANDING.

I THINK BOOTS ON THE STREET, THAT IS KIND OF A MILITARY TERM, BUT WE NEED COPS ON THE STREET AND I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE -- THE CITY NEEDS TO TAKE A LONG, HARD LOOK AT WHY WE HAVE SO FEW AND WHY THE PERCENTAGES ARE SO DOWN.

AND I AM WONDERING, ARE WE BEING REALISTIC IN OUR GOALS.

I MEAN, THE MAYOR'S, WHOEVER IS IN CHARGE, SAYING, OKAY, PIE IN THE SKY, 1500 COPS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Gene: I HAVE HAD PEOPLE SAY TO ME, HE CALLED IT MARTY-ITIS.

THAT ONCE THAT ORIGINAL MARTY 1200 NUMBER WAS OUT THERE, WE WERE ON THE HOOK FROM THAT POINT ON AND WE HAVE NEVER GOTTEN OUT FROM UNDER IT.

>> T.J.: RIGHT.

AND ONE MORE POINT ABOUT THIS.

I AM WONDERING ABOUT RECRUIT -- HOW YOU RECRUIT PEOPLE.

ARE WE BEING HONEST WITH THE PEOPLE WE ARE TRYING TO HIRE?

MEANING, OKAY, WE NEED TO DEFINE WHAT IT IS GOING TO MEAN TO BE A POLICE OFFICER ON THE STREETS OF ALBUQUERQUE.

THESE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS, TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

THESE ARE HOW WE ARE GOING TO DO THE POLICING.

TELL THIS UP FRONT.

THIS HAS TO BE DONE AND THIS HAS TO BE DONE AND SHOW THIS TO THEM BEFORE WE HIRE THEM OR IN THE INTERVIEW PROCESS.

ARE YOU STILL IN FOR THIS?

>> Gene: BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS TOPIC ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

THIS IS POPPING.

WE REALLY WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU GUYS AND CATCH UP ON ANY EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

NOW WE'LL BE BACK IN JUST OVER 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THE RECENT ACTION FROM THE SANTA FE DISTRICT ATTORNEY IN THE DEADLY RUST FILMSET SHOOTING CASE.

>> THEY WANT US JUST TO BE MARIONETTES AND WHOEVER DON'T GO THEIR WAY, THEY JUST KILL.

THAT IS WHAT THEY DO NOW.

THE GENOCIDE AGAINST UKRAINIAN NATION IT IS UNBELIEVABLE, THEY JUST KILLING MERCILESSLY EVERYONE.

KIDS, CIVILIANS, WOMEN.

THEY DON'T CONSIDER US AS AN INDEPENDENT NATION.

THEY CONSIDER US THEIR SLAVES AND WE ARE NOT.

WE WILL ALWAYS PROVE WE ARE -- WE HAVE OUR IDENTITY.

>> Gene: OIL AND GAS BRINGS IN TONS OF MONEY TO NEW MEXICO, AS YOU KNOW.

A CONTINUED BOOM IN THE PERMIAN BASIN IS CERTAINLY REFLECTED IN THE STATE BUDGET.

BUT, MANY COMPANIES, INCLUDING THOSE FROM OUT OF STATE, ARE POLLUTING BEYOND EVEN WHAT REGULATIONS ALLOW WITH FEW REPERCUSSIONS.

OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS TALKS WITH JERRY REDFERN, A REPORTER WITH CAPITAL AND MAIN ABOUT THE ROLE HIS REPORTING PLAYED IN RECENT FINES LEVIED AGAINST TWO TEXAS COMPANIES AND THE TWO ALSO TALK ABOUT NEW MEXICO'S OUTSIZED ROLE IN THE PLANETS WARMING CLIMATE.

>> Laura: WELCOME JERRY REDFERN.

>> Redfern: THANK YOU LAURA.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Laura: SO, REGULATORS RECENTLY FINED MATADOR RESOURCES, AN OIL COMPANY OUT OF DALLAS AND CHISHOLM ENERGY OUT OF FORT WORTH AND THE NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENT SECRETARY SAYS THE FINES CAME OUT OF YOUR REPORTING.

CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND WHAT MIGHT CHANGE?

>> Redfern: YEAH.

SO, BACK IN 2019 AND 2020, THE EPA CAME INTO NEW MEXICO AND TEXAS AS WELL AND DID A SERIES OF OVERFLIGHT PROGRAMS WHERE THEY HAD A HELICOPTER WITH A SPECIAL CAMERA ATTACHED THAT COULD SEE GASES THAT COME OUT OF OIL AND GAS OPERATIONS ESSENTIALLY.

THINGS THAT ARE NORMALLY -- YOU CAN'T SEE WITH THE NAKED EYE.

SO THEY FLEW AROUND AND FOUND ALL THESE DIFFERENT SITES FROM ALL THESE DIFFERENT COMPANIES THAT WERE POLLUTING AND KIND OF, I THINK, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE KNEW THIS WAS HAPPENING BUT THERE WASN'T ANY PARTICULAR REPORTING ON IT.

SO I DUG AROUND INTO IT A LITTLE BIT AND SAW THAT THE EPA HAD BEEN CLOSING THESE CASES OUT, ESSENTIALLY A SLAP ON THE WRIST TELLING MOST OF THESE COMPANIES, ESSENTIALLY DON'T DO THAT AGAIN.

COMPANIES SAYING, OKAY, YOU GOT US, WE WON'T DO THAT AGAIN.

WHICH, YOU KNOW, ISN'T A PARTICULARLY EFFECTIVE WAY TO KEEP COMPANIES FROM DOING THINGS.

THERE WERE A COUPLE OF SMALL FINES THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THAT BUT REALLY THEY WERE GOING THROUGH ALL THIS EFFORT TO FIND OIL AND GAS POLLUTERS AND NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

SO I WROTE ABOUT THAT AND I DON'T THINK THAT NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT SECRETARY JAMES KENNEY REALLY KNEW THAT THESE COMPANIES WERE ESSENTIALLY BEING LET OFF BY THE EPA.

HE WAS SHOCKED AND UNHAPPY ABOUT IT.

MARTIN HEINRICH'S OFFICE ALSO SAW THE REPORTING AND GOT IN TOUCH WITH THE EPA AND ASKED THEM WHAT WAS GOING ON.

AND SINCE THEN STARTING A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, EPA AND NMED STARTED ANNOUNCING THE FIRST COUPLE OF WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE SEVERAL SETTLEMENTS WITH THESE COMPANIES WITH PUNISHING FINES INVOLVED IN THAT.

SO, MATADOR WAS FINED 1.2 MILLION ROUGHLY SPEAKING AND WILL PAY MILLIONS MORE UPGRADES TO THEIR FACILITIES IN THE PERMIAN BASIN AND CHISHOLM ENERGY HAS BEEN FINED ABOUT $440,000 BUT THEN ALSO HAS TO DO MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF UPGRADES TO THEIR FACILITIES AS WELL.

AND THEN SECRETARY KENNEY ALSO SAID THERE IS MANY MORE OF THESE THAT ARE COMING ALONG.

IT IS JUST THEY ARE TAKING A LONG TIME TO SORT OF GET PROSECUTED AND GET THEM ALL WORKED OUT.

>> Laura: I THINK YOU HAVE SOME OF THESE VIDEOS.

MAYBE YOU COULD POP ONE UP ON YOUR SCREEN FOR US WHILE WE TALK ABOUT EMISSIONS FROM THESE OIL WELLS AND FACILITIES.

LIKE WHAT IS COMING OUT?

WE KNOW GREEN HOUSE GAS EMISSIONS CONTRIBUTE TO CLIMATE CHANGE BUT WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THESE FACILITIES?

>> Redfern: WELL, YOU KNOW, IT IS ACTUALLY A FUNKY COCKTAIL OF STUFF THAT COMES OUT, SO, THE MAIN COMPONENT IS CALLED METHANE, WHICH IS THE MAIN COMPONENT OF NATURAL GAS.

I AM SHOWING YOU A VIDEO OF ONE OF THESE MATADOR FACILITIES THAT CAUGHT EPA'S EYE INITIALLY.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE IS WE ARE SEEING ESSENTIALLY AN INFRARED SCALE OF GASES THAT ARE COMING OUT OF A SET OF TANKS.

AND THE BLACK CLOUDS THAT YOU SEE ARE THE METHANE AND NATURAL GAS AND VARIOUS OTHER SORT OF, AS I CALL THEM, FELLOW TRAVELER CHEMICALS THAT COME ALONG WITH THE NATURAL GAS.

AND THEY ARE CALLED VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS AND WHAT THEY TEND TO DO IN THE AIR, THEY ARE, BY THEMSELVES, PRETTY POISONOUS, ACTUALLY, BUT WHAT THEY ALSO DO IS BOND WITH OTHER MOLECULES IN THE AIR TO CREATE OZONE AND OZONE IS A PARTICULARLY HARMFUL AIR POLLUTANT.

IT IS REALLY HARMFUL FOR KIDS LUNGS, GROWING LUNGS AND ALSO FOR THE ELDERLY.

AND LEADS TO BREATHING PROBLEMS AND HEALTH -- LUNG RELATED HEALTH EFFECTS DOWN THE LINE.

AND THIS IS POURING OUT OF STUFF ALL OVER THE PERMIAN BASIN.

>> Laura: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PERMIAN, IN GENERAL.

CAN YOU CHARACTERIZE FOR THOSE OF US WHO MAYBE HAVEN'T BEEN DOWN THERE RECENTLY, WHAT IS HAPPENING DOWN THERE?

>> Redfern: IT IS KIND OF FUNKY.

THE PERMIAN IS LIKE THIS REALLY BIG SEMI-ARID SEMI-DESERT AREA, NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE.

THERE IS NOT A LOT OF TREES.

NOT A LOUD OF CLOUDS.

NOT A LOT OF HILLS BUT ROLLS A LITTLE BIT AND WHEN YOU DRIVE ACROSS IT, ALL YOU ARE REALLY SEEING ARE THESE OIL WELLS, GAS WELLS AND THE PROCESSING FACILITIES THAT GO ALONG WITH THEM EVERY MILE SO LIKE POP, POP, POP, AS YOU DRIVE DOWN THE VARIOUS ROADS.

AND THEN IT IS ALSO INTERSPERSED WITH THIS GRID OF DIRT ROADS THAT LEAD ALL OVER THE PLACE, AND DOWN ALL THOSE DIRT ROADS IT IS THE SAME SORT OF THING, JUST POP, POP, POP, OIL WELL, GAS WELL, PROCESSING FACILITY.

ABOUT THE ONLY TRAFFIC YOU SEE OUT THERE IN THIS WHOLE AREA THAT USED TO BE RANCH LAND, THE ONLY TRAFFIC YOU SEE OUT THERE NOW ARE BIG TRUCKS MOVING OIL DRILLING EQUIPMENT AROUND, BIG TRUCKS HAULING PRODUCED WATER FROM THESE WELLS AROUND.

AND THEN THE PICKUP TRUCKS WITH THE GUYS WHO WORK ON THESE WELLS GOING FROM WELL TO WELL, TO WELL, TO SET THEM UP, TAKE THEM DOWN, DO THE MONITORING WORK.

SO IT HAS TURNED THIS RATHER LARGE STRETCH OF -- THIS LARGER CORNER OF NEW MEXICO -- IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO DRIVE ACROSS.

IT IS NOT AN INCONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF LAND.

AND TURNED IT FROM RANGE LAND INTO INDUSTRIAL ZONE, AN INDUSTRIAL WORK ZONE.

>> Laura: YEAH.

SO LOTS AND LOTS OF OIL AND GAS DEVELOPMENT DOWN THERE.

I HAVE HEARD THE PERMIAN CALLED A CLIMATE BOMB FOR THE AMOUNT OF DRILLING THAT IS GOING ON AND ALL THAT OIL IS EXPORTED, USED HERE, GOES OUT TO CREATE MORE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HOW NEW MEXICO IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE GLOBAL PROBLEM OF CLIMATE CHANGE?

>> Redfern: IT IS REALLY AN OUTSIZED CONTRIBUTION CONSIDERING THE SIZE OF THE POPULATION IN THE STATE, THE STATE'S POPULATION, COMPARED TO AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT THAT GOES ON HERE.

YOU BROUGHT UP THE IDEA OF A CLIMATE BOMB GOING OFF HERE.

AND I THINK THAT IS A REALLY INTERESTING PHRASE TO USE THAT I KNOW A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS USE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THAT, I THINK, IN MY MIND IN THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT.

IN THE FACT THAT I SORT OF STUMBLED ACROSS AND SHOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT A LONG TIME AGO IS THAT OIL PRODUCTION IN NEW MEXICO HAS GONE UP 10 FOLD SINCE 2010.

IT IS 10 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF OIL GOING OUT NOW THAN WE DID IN 2010, AND ABOUT TWO-AND-A-HALF TIMES THE AMOUNT OF NATURAL GAS.

IT HAS BEEN A PRETTY STEADY RISE IN THOSE 13 YEARS.

IT HASN'T BEEN A BOMB GOING OFF, NOT LIKE IT IS SUDDENLY ZERO BUT GOING TO 100.

IT HAS BEEN A STEADY, PROGRESSIVE CLIMB UPWARD.

AND IT IS CONTINUING TO DO THAT AS WELL.

I THINK THE IDEA OF IT BEING A CLIMATE BOMB IS THIS IDEA THAT IF WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS DRILLING IN THE STATE WE WON'T BE ABLE TO MITIGATE AND COPE WITH THE BIGGEST EFFECTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE THAT ARE COMING DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Laura: I AM GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE RECENTLY THE UNITED NATIONS PUT OUT ANOTHER REPORT THAT HUMANS ARE NOT ON TRACK TO LIMIT WARMING TO 1.5 DEGREES CELSIUS WHICH MEANS WE ARE IN FOR, AND I AM QUOTING, CLIMATE DISASTERS WILL BECOME SO EXTREME PEOPLE CANNOT ADAPT.

HEATWAVES, FAMINES AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES WILL CLAIM MILLIONS OF ADDITIONAL LIVES AND BASIC COMPONENTS OF THE EARTH SYSTEM WILL BE FUNDAMENTALLY, IRREVOCABLY ALTERED.

WE JUST FINISHED UP A LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

WHAT DID THE NEW MEXICO LEGISLATURE DO THIS YEAR IN TERMS OF MITIGATING, ADAPTING TO CLIMATE CHANGE?

>> Redfern: WELL, TO PUT NOT TOO FINE A POINT ON IT, THEY DID JUST ABOUT NOTHING.

ALL OF THE NOTABLE REGULATIONS THAT WOULD HAVE GONE INTO SOMEWHAT FURTHER REGULATING THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY IN THE STATE, WHICH AGAIN IS THE LARGEST GREENHOUSE GAS EMITTER IN THE STATE, THEY ALL DIED AND THEY DIDN'T JUST DIE, THEY DIED IN COMMITTEE BEFORE THEY GOT A CHANCE TO GET A FULL AIRING IN FRONT OF THE LEGISLATURE AND REALLY IN FRONT OF THE STATE.

IT WAS -- I HAVE TO ADMIT IT WAS KIND OF SURPRISING TO ME, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON AS WELL IS THAT NONE OF THESE LAWS THAT WERE PROPOSED, NONE OF THESE BILLS THAT WERE PROPOSED ACTUALLY WERE DESIGNED TO STOP OIL AND GAS PRODUCTION.

THEY WERE JUST BRINGING IN SLIGHTLY FURTHER REGULATIONS TO VET BETTER PEOPLE WHO COULD DO OIL AND GAS DRILLING IN THE STATE AND IT IS PRETTY WIDE OPEN NOW TO ANYBODY DOING THAT.

IT OPENED UP THE DOOR TO CITIZEN SUITS TO BE BROUGHT AGAINST OIL AND GAS COMPANIES THAT WEREN'T FOLLOWING STATE LAWS BECAUSE OF SORT OF WHAT I HINTED AT EARLIER, THE STATE DOESN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES OR I SHOULD SAY ISN'T PUTTING THE RESOURCES TOWARD DOING ENFORCEMENT OF THE OIL AND GAS LAWS THAT WE ALREADY HAVE ON THE BOOKS.

SO THAT LAW WOULD HAVE ALLOWED CITIZEN GROUPS TO TAKE UP THOSE SORTS OF LAWSUITS AND THEN THERE WAS A REFORMATION OF THE BASIC 1935 OIL AND GAS ACT THAT MUCH OF STATE'S OIL AND GAS PRODUCTION OPERATES UNDER AT THIS POINT THAT HAS NOT BEEN DRASTICALLY UPDATED IN YEARS.

AND IT WAS LOOKING TO ADD IN PROTECTIONS FOR HUMAN LIFE WHICH YOU THINK IS A PRETTY DECENT IDEA, AND THEN FOR THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT THAT GOES ON THAT TRIES TO LIVE AROUND THESE OIL AND GAS FACILITIES.

>> Laura: DISAPPOINTING NEWS BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPORTING.

AS THE FINES AGAINST THE TWO COMPANIES SHOW, LIKE THE REPORTING, LIKE THIS REALLY DOES MATTER.

SO THANK YOU.

>> Redfern: THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON LAURA.

IT HAS BEEN GREAT.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE RETURN TO THE ONGOING RUST FILM SHOOTING SAGA AS THE CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST ALEC BALDWIN AND THE MOVIE'S ARMORER IS RESHUFFLED WITH NEW SPECIAL PROSECUTORS, ALBUQUERQUE ATTORNEY'S KARI MORRISEY AND JASON LEWIS ARE THEM.

THEY ARE TAKING OVER THE CASE AT THE REQUEST OF THE FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY MARY CARMACK-ALTWIES.

THAT IS AFTER STATE REPRESENTATIVE ANDREW REEB STEPPED DOWN AS SPECIAL PROSECUTOR LAST MONTH.

A FEW DAYS LATER, THE NEW YORK TIME PUBLISHED MULTIPLE EMAILS FROM MS. REEB IN WHICH SHE TALKED ABOUT THE CASE HELPING HER POLITICAL CAREER.

LAURA, I HAVE GOT TO ASK THIS QUESTION.

SHOULD THE DA HAVE BAILED ON MS. REEB AS SOON AS SHE SAW THAT EMAIL BECAUSE BOY WHEN YOU READ IT IN THE NEWSPAPER, THE NEW YORK TIMES, IT WAS LIKE, ON MY GOODNESS THAT DID NOT JUST HAPPEN, SHE DID NOT ASK FOR A SPECIAL FAVOR.

WHAT WAS YOUR OPINION WHEN YOU READ THAT EMAIL?

>> Laura: IT WAS SURPRISING.

LOOK, I HAVE HAD THE STUDENT TO INTERACT WITH REPRESENTATIVE REEB.

SHE IS VERY PROFESSIONAL.

SHE IS DEFINITELY VERY WELL, I THINK, WELL LIKED AND RESPECTED AT THE LEGISLATURE.

AND SHE IS VERY THOUGHTFUL AS A LEGISLATOR AND VERY GOOD TO TALK TO, VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE.

SO I WAS SURPRISED.

AND YOU KNOW IT SORT OF MADE ME THINK ABOUT THE TIMES THAT I HAVE SAID SOMETHING OFFHANDED OVER EMAIL WHERE YOU'RE JOKING OR YOU'RE SAYING SOMETHING AND YOU CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, I THINK ANYBODY WHO KNOWS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PERSON, YOU'RE SAYING SOMETHING IN AN EMAIL THEY KNOW THAT YOU ARE JOKING, OR WHATEVER, BUT IF IT WERE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT AND PUBLICIZED, IT WOULD LOOK BAD.

IT MADE ME FEEL LIKE THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

I CAN'T IMAGINE SHE ACTUALLY WOULD HAVE BEEN SAYING, LET'S DO THIS, BECAUSE IT WOULD HELP MY POLITICAL CAREER.

SHE HAS DONE GREAT IN HER CAREER REGARDLESS OF THIS WHOLE RUST SITUATION.

AND BY THE WAY, IT IS NOT AN EASY THING TO DO.

BEING A PROSECUTOR IN GENERAL IS NOT EASY.

IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT, VERY CHALLENGING ROLE AND NOT ONE THAT YOU JUST SORT OF DO BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO BE POLITICALLY ADVANTAGEOUS.

I SAW IT WITH A LITTLE BIT OF TINGE BECAUSE IT WAS JUST UNFORTUNATE BUT I ALSO HAD TO BE A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS ABOUT -- I THINK THAT IT WAS PRESENTED IN THE CONTEXT OF, LOOK, THERE IS SOME IMPROPRIETY HERE BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WAS THE INTENT.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE AND, SENATOR, THE EMAIL READS, IN PART, "AT SOME POINT, THOUGH, I WOULD AT LEAST LIKE TO GET OUT THERE THAT I AM ASSISTING YOU AS IT MIGHT HELP MY CAMPAIGN, LOL."

END QUOTE.

LOL.

I MEAN, OF COURSE, BUT, YOU'RE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, WHAT WOULD YOU MAKE OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> Diane: VERY POOR TASTE TO START WITH.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MY GRANDMOTHER WOULD HAVE SAID WAS TACKY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS STUPID ALSO, IN MY OPINION.

IT IS VERY STUPID.

AND I DON'T CARE HOW CLOSE YOU ARE TO THE PERSON, DON'T PUT IT IN WRITING.

YOU CAN JOKE ON THE TELEPHONE BUT DO NOT JOKE ON FACEBOOK OR EMAIL OR ANY OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AND I DON'T KNOW HER PERSONALLY.

I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THIS YEAR'S LEGISLATURE SO -- BUT IT IS A STUPID THING TO SAY AND DO.

NOW, I'LL SAY ALSO, I DON'T THINK THAT IS REALLY UNUSUAL FOR PEOPLE TO DO THINGS IN THEIR LIVES TO GET GOOD CREDIT OR NAME -- >> Gene: THERE ARE OPPORTUNISTIC PEOPLE.

>> Diane: OR NAME RECOGNITION.

AND I THINK THAT SHE SAW THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.

UNFORTUNATELY WHEN THE DEFENDANT IS SUCH A NATIONAL, INTERNATIONAL PERSON, TO ME YOU HAVE TO EVEN BE TIGHTER TO THE LINE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO AND SAY.

IF SHE WAS STILL IN CHARGE AND I WAS A JUROR, ALL I WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE IN MY MIND IS THOSE STATEMENTS.

SHE IS DOING THIS, MAYBE IT WOULD MAKE ME TAKE A SECOND LOOK AT HIS CULPABILITY.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS FAIR TO THE FAMILY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE KILLED.

SO, I THINK THAT IT LEADS TO UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, MORE SO THAN JUST HER POLITICAL FUTURE.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS.

A LOT OF MISSTEPS.

IT IS NOT OVER.

NOT SAYING THE DA IS GOING TO LOSE THE CASE, THAT IS NOT OUR PLACE HERE, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN MISSTEPS HERE.

ARE YOU FEELING THAT?

>> T.J.: OH, YEAH.

>> Gene: TELL ME.

I AM INTERESTED.

>> T.J.: OH, YEAH.

>> Gene: ACROSS THE BOARD.

ARMORER AND -- >> T.J.: I THINK BALDWIN WILL BE FOUND INNOCENT.

I AM NOT SURE ABOUT GUITERREZ-REED.

BUT HE WILL BE -- LET ME GO BACK UP FOR A SECOND.

LET'S BACK THIS UP FROM A MEDIA PERSPECTIVE.

I DON'T KNOW MS. REEB.

NEVER MET HER.

YOU GOT THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD WATCHING YOU.

EVERYBODY IS FOCUSED ON THIS CASE, WHETHER WE ARE HERE OR NOT.

THIS IS IN THE NEW YORK TIMES.

YOU KNOW.

WHAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS WE ALWAYS SAY TO EACH OTHER.

EVERY MIKE IS A HOT MIKE.

MAYBE YOU DON'T THINK EVERY MIKE IS A HOT MIKE, BUT IT IS A HOT MIKE.

IF YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE AND NOBODY IS GOING TO HEAR IT, SOMEBODY IS GOING TO HEAR IT.

SO, YEAH.

NO, AND GOD FORBID THAT THERE IS OPPORTUNISM IN POLITICS?

I WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT THAT.

THAT STUFF NEVER HAPPENS.

BALDWIN IS GOING TO WIN.

GUITERREZ-REED MAYBE NOT SO MUCH.

>> Diane: BUT WILL SHE TAKE THE HIT AND BALDWIN GO FREE.

>> Gene: INTERESTING QUESTION.

PERSONAL OPINION, I THINK THEY ARE FOCUSING ON THE ARMORER MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, AS T.J. WAS SAYING.

LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION, THOUGH.

BALDWIN'S ATTORNEY, TURNING TO LAURA ON THIS ON, "MR. BALDWIN HAD NO REASON TO BELIEVE THERE WAS A LIVE BULLET IN THE GUN OR ANYWHERE ON THE MOVIE SET.

HE RELIED ON THE PROFESSIONALS WITH WHOM HE WORKED," ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

FINISHING, "AND WE WILL WIN."

PEOPLE ARE FEELING PRETTY CONFIDENT ON THE BALDWIN SIDE OF THINGS AND AGAIN IT IS LIKE A SPORTS EVENT, WE CAN'T MAKE PREDICTIONS HERE, BECAUSE COURTROOM STUFF IS VERY TRICKY.

>> Laura: WELL, T.J. DID.

I DON'T MAKE PREDICTIONS BUT T.J. DID.

>> Gene: WE ARE TALKING FOURTH DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER CHARGES HERE.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO MAKE THAT STICK.

THAT IS A TOUGH ONE.

INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGHT ON THAT.

>> Laura: NOT HAVING FOLLOWED IT AS CLOSELY ON THE DETAILS OTHER THAN WHAT HAS BEEN IN MEDIA WHICH HAS BEEN ALL OVER THE PLACE, IT APPEARS TO ME THERE IS ALSO REPORTS OF OTHER MEMBERS ON THE SET WHO HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THE SAFETY ON SET, RIGHT?

THAT THERE WERE SORT OF RELAXED STANDARDS GOING ON, THE FACT THEY HAD THIS ARMORER WHO APPARENTLY WASN'T AS EXPERIENCED.

IN MY UNDERSTANDING THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE THEY HAD SOUGHT AFTER AND LIKE HAD DECIDED TO DECLINE BECAUSE THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT THIS.

SO, ALL OF THAT TO ME IS MORE THAN ALEC BALDWIN THE ACTOR.

IT IS ALEC BALDWIN THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT GOES WITH THAT.

HE WAS THE ONE HOLDING THE GUN BUT ALSO WHAT IS THE LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY HE HAS OVERALL ON THE SET?

AND SO I THINK DID HE -- I THINK WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT IN THE DEFENSE, AND I WOULD EXPECT THEY HAVE STATEMENTS LIKE THAT.

THAT IS WHAT THE DEFENSE DOES.

THEY HAVE TO BE CONFIDENT LIKE THAT.

IT IS PART OF THE GAME, RIGHT.

BUT WHAT THEY ARE NARROWING THAT DOWN TO IS REALLY HIM HOLDING THE GUN AS AN ACTOR, RIGHT.

HE HAD NO REASON TO BELIEVE IT WAS LIVE, BUT HE WAS ALSO THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER.

HE ALSO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN -- THAT IS THE STANDARD, RIGHT, FOR MANSLAUGHTER.

SHOULD YOU HAVE KNOWN?

WAS THERE LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT ISN'T JUST YOU KNEW AND INTENDED.

THAT WOULD BE FIRST DEGREE MURDER RIGHT, BUT NEGLIGENCE STANDARDS ARE, SHOULD YOU HAVE KNOWN THAT THIS WAS AN ISSUE AND SHOULD YOU HAVE TAKEN PRECAUTIONS TO PREVENT THIS.

>> Diane: AND IF THERE WERE OTHER PRIOR COMPLAINTS THEN THAT KIND OF LENDS TO THAT HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN.

>> Laura: THERE IS A FACTUAL ISSUE HERE, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, WHICH IS THAT, AGAIN, THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH ATTENTION ON THIS, BUT WHETHER THE GUN ITSELF IS CAPABLE OF FIRING BY JUST HOLDING IT.

>> Gene: WE HAVE AN EXTRA SEGMENT ONLINE RIGHT NOW WHERE I ASK THIS GROUP ABOUT THE INTERSECTIONS OF FAITH AND CULTURE HERE IN OUR STATE AS EASTER WEEKEND BEGINS.

RIGHT NOW LOOKING BACK 20 YEARS ALMOST TO THE DAY WHEN NEW MEXICO'S MARTHA BURK ROLLED INTO AUGUSTA, GEORGIA WITH A BULL HORN, A FEW DOZEN FRIENDS AND A BONE TO PICK WITH THE LEADERS OF THE MOST EXCLUSIVE GOLF CLUB IN THE UNITED STATES.

MARTHA BURK KNEW THE MALE CEO'S WHO WERE MEMBERS OF THE AUGUSTA NATIONAL DIDN'T PAY WOMEN EQUALLY FOR THE SAME WORK AS MEN.

SO SHE FIRED UP A PROTEST TO RAISE AWARENESS AND DID IT ALL FOR THE WORLD TO SEE DURING AUGUSTA'S WORLD RENOWNED EVENT, THE MASTERS TOURNAMENT.

NOW THIS YEAR'S MASTERS IS NOW HALFWAY IN THE BOOKS SO EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR SAT DOWN WITH MARTHA BURK TO REFLECT ON WHAT HAS CHANGED AND WHAT HASN'T SINCE HER HISTORIC PROTEST TWO DECADES AGO.

>> JEFF: MARTHA, IT IS REALLY GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN AND THANKS A TON FOR COMING DOWN TO TALK TO ME TODAY.

>> Martha: MY PLEASURE.

>> JEFF: IT IS MASTERS WEEK FOR THOSE WHO CELEBRATE AND IT ALSO AWFULLY CLOSE TO THE EXACT 20 YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF YOU GOING DOWN AND MAKING A BIG MESS IN FRONT OF THEIR LITTLE BOY'S CLUB.

AND WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE BUT IF I RECALL CORRECTLY THIS WHOLE THING STARTED WITH A LETTER THAT YOU WROTE.

TO WHOM DID YOU ADDRESS THE LETTER AND WHAT DID IT SAY?

>> Martha: I ADDRESSED IT TO HOTTIE JOHNSON, THE HEAD OF THE CLUB, LORD AND MASTER, YOU MIGHT SAY.

IT WAS A VERY POLITE SHORT LETTER AND IT JUST SAID, WE HAVE NOTICED THAT YOU HAVE A VERY PROMINENT CLUB THAT ATTRACTS CEO'S OF AMERICAS LARGEST CORPORATIONS AND YOU DON'T ALLOW WOMEN.

AND WE WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THAT.

IT WAS A POLITE LETTER, PROBABLY ABOUT FOUR LINES LONG.

I CAN'T FIND A COPY OF IT NOW.

I DIDN'T EXPECT REALLY TO GET AN ANSWER OR I THOUGHT IF I DID THEY WOULD SAY, OH, SURE, STAY TUNED, WE ARE WORKING ON IT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I NEVER EXPECTED IT TO EXPLODE AS IT DID.

>> Jeff: BY THEN, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO, I WAS ALREADY QUITE THE GOLF TRAGIC BUT IF I RECALL MY HISTORY CORRECTLY, YOU HADN'T REALLY THOUGHT MUCH ABOUT GOLF OR GOLFERS OR GOLF CLUBS BY THAT POINT.

WHAT WAS GOING ON FOR YOU CAREER WISE AT THAT POINT AND HOW DID AUGUSTA NATIONAL GET ON YOUR RADAR?

>> Martha: OH, WELL, I WAS HEAD OF THE WOMEN'S -- NATIONAL COUNCIL OF WOMEN'S ORGANIZATIONS WHICH HAD MEMBERSHIP RANGING FROM PLANNED PARENTHOOD TO CHURCH OF WOMEN UNITED, BLACK WOMEN UNITED FOR ACTION, AMERICAN NURSES.

WE HAD ABOUT 50 GROUPS REPRESENTING COLLECTIVELY 10 MILLION WOMEN.

AND OUR JOB WAS TO ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN'S EQUALITY.

AND WE DID STUFF LIKE GO TO THE HILL ALL THE TIME OR HARASS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OCCASIONALLY TO GET ON CERTAIN BILLS LIKE PAY EQUITY, CHILD CARE, THE THINGS THAT WOMEN NEED IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE EQUALITY.

AND THIS WAS JUST SUCH A MINOR LITTLE THING.

I READ SOMEWHERE IN A MAGAZINE OR PAPER, YOU KNOW, THIS CLUB AND IT IS A PROMINENT CLUB AND THEY DON'T ALLOW WOMEN.

SO I ASKED MY BOARD, WE WERE PACKING UP TO LEAVE, MEETING WAS OVER.

I SAID, I HEARD ABOUT THIS GOLF CLUB, BLAH, BLAH, WHY DON'T WE WRITE THEM A LETTER.

THEY SAID, SURE, WRITE THEM A LETTER.

NO VOTE, NOTHING.

IT WASN'T A BIG DEAL, I DIDN'T THINK.

>> Jeff: SO YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING MUCH OF A REACTION AT ALL.

>> Martha: NOT AT ALL.

>> Jeff: WHAT HAPPENED INSTEAD, MARTHA?

>> Martha: WELL, MY PHONE RANG AND THIS VOICE AT THE OTHER END OF THE LINE SAID, HI, THIS DOUG FERGUSON.

I AM A GOLF WRITER FOR THE AP, WHAT DID YOU THINK OF AUGUSTA NATIONAL'S LETTER?

I SAID, WHAT LETTER?

AND HE READ IT TO ME, POINT OF A BAYONET, THE WHOLE SCREED.

AND I SAID, WELL, I GOT A FEDEX ABOUT 10 MINUTES AGO, BUT I HADN'T HAD TIME TO OPEN IT, I GUESS IT IS IN THERE.

AND FROM THERE, AS WE KNOW, IT JUST EXPLODED INTO A YEAR LONG OR A LITTLE OVER A YEAR, ACTUALLY, ARGUMENT.

>> Jeff: TELL ME ABOUT THE PROTEST ITSELF.

WHAT WAS THE VIBE?

WHAT WAS THE ATMOSPHERE?

WHAT WAS THAT DAY?

>> Martha: WE HAD ABOUT A 20-FOOT PINK PIG THAT WE HAD BORROWED FROM RALPH NADER'S ORGANIZATION BECAUSE HE ALWAYS SAID THE CORPORATIONS ARE PIGS AND ALL THAT STUFF.

SO WE HAD THAT DOWN THERE AND WE WERE HOPING TO BE AT THE CLUB GATES BUT LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT WOULDN'T GIVE US A PERMIT.

YOU KNOW WHOSE POCKET THOSE BOYS WERE IN.

>> Jeff: SHOCKER.

>> Martha: SO THEY PUT US ABOUT A HALF A MILE DOWN THE ROAD.

IT IS KIND OF MUDDY.

JUST AN OPEN FIELD.

THE PRESS REPORTED WE HAD 40 PEOPLE.

I THINK WE PROBABLY HAD CLOSER TO 60 OR MAYBE EVEN 80.

BUT, WE DIDN'T HAVE AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE WOULD HAVE HAD AT THE GATE.

WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY VIOLENCE, EVEN THOUGH, AS I SAID IN THE PIECE, I DID HAVE BODY GUARDS AND I DID HAVE A BULLET PROOF VEST.

I HAD GOTTEN A LOT OF DEATH THREATS.

SOME PEOPLE TAKE GOLF MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY THAN THEY EVER SHOULD.

>> Jeff: ISN'T THAT THE TRUTH.

WHAT HAPPENED AFTERWARDS?

WHAT WAS THE PRIVATE RESPONSE THAT YOU GOT?

I REMEMBER THE "I STAND WITH HOOTIE T SHIRTS," AND THE GHOST BUSTERS BUTTONS WITH YOUR FACE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

WHAT WAS THE RESPONSE PRIVATELY?

HOW DID THE PUBLIC RESPOND TO WHAT YOU WERE DOING.

>> Martha: WELL, MOST OF THE WOMEN WERE FOR US.

A FEW WEREN'T.

MY HUSBAND PLAYS GOLF AND I DON'T WANT TO PLAY, THAT KIND OF STUFF.

SHALL I SAY THE PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS ABOUT AND IT WAS NEVER ABOUT GOLF.

IT WAS ABOUT EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO THE BUSINESS DEALS THAT WERE MADE ON THAT COURSE AND IN THAT CLUB HOUSE.

AND I MEAN THE FORTUNE 500 WAS A MEMBERSHIP.

YOU CAN'T JUST GO PUT YOUR MONEY DOWN AND GET A MEMBERSHIP TO THAT CLUB.

YOU HAVE TO BE INVITED AND THEY DIDN'T INVITE ANYBODY BUT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF CORPORATE AMERICA OR OCCASIONALLY I SUPPOSE SOME PROMINENT PREACHER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT THERE WERE NO NORMAL PEOPLE, SO TO SPEAK, AND WOMEN WERE TRYING TO GET EQUAL FOOTING IN THE HALLS OF BIG BUSINESS AND THAT IS WHERE OFF CAMPUS DEALS WERE MADE AND SO THAT IS WHAT IT WAS ABOUT.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO TALK SOME ABOUT THE VALUE OF PROTEST ITSELF AND THE VALUE OF DIRECT ACTION.

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO GO THE ROUTE THAT YOU DID AND TO HAVE THAT DAY IN FRONT OF ALL THOSE CAMERAS AND A BIG PINK PIG AND ALL THAT STUFF, AND HOW DO YOU THINK IT IMPACTED WHAT IT IS YOU WERE TRYING TO DO?

>> Martha: WELL, I THINK IT MADE A DIFFERENCE.

THEY WAITED EIGHT YEARS TO LET A WOMAN IN SO WE WOULDN'T GET CREDIT BUT WE DID.

I MEAN, PEOPLE REMEMBERED AND YOU KNOW THEY KNEW WHAT HAPPENED.

BUT THE VALUE OF PROTEST IS TO RAISE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS.

WE WOULDN'T HAVE PROTESTED HAD THEY NOT PROVOKED US WITH THIS LETTER THEY SENT THAT SAID WE WON'T BE HELD AT THE POINT OF A BAYONET BY A WOMEN'S GROUP OF ALL PEOPLE.

I MEAN, MY GOD, LET WOMEN TELL YOU WHAT TO DO, NO.

BUT THE VALUE OF PROTEST IS REAL.

WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IF -- OR CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS IF WE DIDN'T HAVE PROTESTS.

WE WOULDN'T HAVE WHAT IS NOW VERY CONTROVERSIAL BUT THE LBGTQ COMMUNITY IS UNDER SIEGE BUT PROTESTS WILL TURN THE TIDE EVENTUALLY.

YOU HAVE TO GET OUT THERE.

BECAUSE, ASKING POLITELY TO BIGOTS IS NEVER GOING TO MAKE SOCIAL CHANGE.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO FLASH US FORWARD TO TODAY.

GIVEN THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE IN THIS COUNTRY NOW, SHOULD PROTEST AND DIRECT ACTION LIKE THAT STILL BE ON THE ACTIVISTS MENU?

>> Martha: YES AND NO.

I THINK IT SHOULD BE BECAUSE IT IS VITAL TO DEMOCRACY.

WHAT HAS CHANGED IS THE GUN CULTURE.

AND, AS I SAID, I HAD A BULLET PROOF VEST WAY BACK THEN BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE AK 47'S ON EVERY STREET CORNER.

AND WE DO NOW AND SO PEOPLE WHO PROTEST ON EITHER SIDE ARE UNDER MUCH LARGER THREAT THAN WHAT WE WOULD CALL A PEACEFUL PROTEST.

YOU KNOW, MY GRANDCHILD ASKED ME FAIRLY RECENTLY WHAT I WAS DOING BACK IN THE DAY, HE SAID, '60, '70.

I SAID I WAS PROTESTING THE VIETNAM WAR.

AND WE DID IT AND IT WAS PEACEFUL PROTEST.

YOU NEVER WOULD HAVE CARRIED A GUN IN THE STREET AND THREATENED TO KILL PEOPLE.

YOU WANTED TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS, YOU DIDN'T WANT TO ELIMINATE THEM.

THAT IS WHAT HAS CHANGED, I THINK.

>> Jeff: SPEAKING OF CHANGE.

A LOT HAS CHANGED AT AUGUSTA NATIONAL IN THE 20 YEARS.

THEY HAVE ALLOWED A FEW WOMEN MEMBERS.

WE ARE NOT EXACTLY SURE BECAUSE OF THEIR SECRECY POLICIES AS TO HOW MANY.

THEY NOW STAGE A BIG WOMEN'S AMATEUR GOLF TOURNAMENT THERE.

AND THERE HAS BEEN SOME PROGRESS.

I WAS LISTENING TO A MASTERS PREVIEW POD CAST THIS MORNING AND DARE I SAY THEY USED THE WORD PROGRESSIVE TO DESCRIBE AUGUSTA IN THE GOLF SPACE AT LEAST, WHICH, OF COURSE, IS INCREDIBLY LOW BAR.

>> Martha: INCREDIBLY LOW.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO ASK BEYOND THAT, GIVEN THAT THIS WAS NEVER ABOUT GOLF FOR YOU, WHAT HAS CHANGED AND WHAT HAS NOT IN PAY EQUITY AND THE OTHER WOMEN STRUGGLES THAT YOU HAVE DEDICATED SO MUCH OF YOUR LIFE TO?

>> Martha: THIS IS WHAT IS KIND OF PATHETIC.

LET'S TAKE PAY EQUITY SINCE YOU MENTIONED IT.

BACK THEN THE GAP BETWEEN WOMEN AND MEN'S PAY WAS SOMETHING AROUND 78 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR.

WOMEN MADE 78 CENTS AND THE WHITE MAN'S DOLLAR WAS THE STANDARD.

NOW, IT IS 82 CENTS.

THAT IS FOUR CENTS IN 20 YEARS.

SO, MAYBE IN THE NEXT CENTURY AT THE RATE WE ARE GOING, WE NEED BETTER LAWS.

WE NEED A LOT OF THINGS TO GIVE WOMEN AN EQUAL PLAYING FIELD.

LET'S TAKE COVID, FOR EXAMPLE.

JUST A LITTLE DIGRESSION HERE.

WHO LOST THEIR JOBS DURING COVID?

WOMEN.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY MADE LESS THAN MEN IN A TWO-PARENT FAMILY AND THE LOWER EARNER NEEDED TO QUIT TO STAY HOME WITH KIDS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE CHILD CARE IN THIS COUNTRY UNLIKE ALL OF EUROPE AND MOST OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD.

SO, WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS BUT IT IS MUCH TOO SLOW.

>> Jeff: MARTHA, DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS THIS WEEKEND.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN IF WE WENT DOWN TO AUGUSTA AND DECIDED WE WANTED TO GO TO THE GOLF TOURNAMENT?

>> Martha: OH, I THINK THE BOYS WOULD PUT ON A REALLY GOOD SHOW.

I BET THEY WOULD WELCOME US AND SAY, SEE, SEE WHAT WE HAVE DONE, LOOK AT OUR SIX WOMEN OUT OF 300 MEMBERS, YOU KNOW.

THEY ARE SECRETIVE BUT WE ARE PRETTY SURE IT IS ABOUT SIX.

THAT'S 2% OF THE MEMBERSHIP.

I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT TONE, A GREAT PATINA AND BEHIND THAT TISSUE PAPER EQUALITY, THEY ARE STILL DOING THE SAME THING.

>> Jeff: MAYBE NEXT YEAR WE WILL DO THAT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING DOWN AND TALKING TO ME.

>> Martha: YOU ARE MOST WELCOME.

MY PLEASURE.

>> Gene: ONE YEAR AFTER RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE, A GROUP OF UKRAINIAN CITIZENS HERE IN NEW MEXICO IS PUSHING EVEN HARDER TO RALLY SUPPORT FOR THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

NATALIYA PAVLENKO-EDLEMAN AND LARYSA CASTILLO LEAD THE ORGANIZATION CALLED UKRAINIAN AMERICANS OF NEW MEXICO.

NOW, LAST MONTH OUR SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO SAT DOWN WITH BOTH OF THEM TO ASK ABOUT THE EMOTIONAL BURDENS OF THE PAST YEAR AND THE ROLE WOMEN HAVE PLAYED IN THE WAR EFFORT BOTH IN UKRAINE AND HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

[INAUDIBLE SPEECH] >> I WOKE UP THIS MORNING AND I WAS HOPING THAT ALL THIS 365 DAYS OF BRUTAL INVASION WAS JUST A BAD DREAM.

THAT I CAN SIMPLY ERASE IT THE NEXT MORNING AND THINK OF THESE BEAUTIFUL SKIES.

THESE -- WE WILL STAND UNTIL THE LAST BREATH AND SING OUR FREEDOM FOREVER.

STOP THE WAR.

STOP THE WAR.

STOP PUTIN.

STOP PUTIN.

STOP KILLING OUR PEOPLE.

>> Lou: THE RUSSIAN INVASION OF UKRAINE IS STILL GOING ON NOW ONE YEAR LATER.

WHAT HAS THE PAST YEAR BEEN LIKE FOR YOU?

>> Nataliya: FOR ALL UKRAINIANS I THINK IN THE WORLD, WHOLE WORLD, IT IS JUST NIGHTMARE FOR US -- WE HAVE RELATIVES, WE HAVE FRIENDS, WE HAVE FAMILIES IN UKRAINE.

I GREW UP IN BUCHA AND ALMOST EVERYBODY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN BUCHA.

AND THANK GOD MY BROTHER AND HIS FAMILY SURVIVED BUT HIS FRIENDS, MY FRIENDS OR THEIR KIDS KILLED.

CITY DESTROYED LIKE MARIUPOL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES, THERE IS NOTHING.

NO TREES, NO BUILDINGS.

AND BEFORE THE WAR, THERE WAS 500,000 PEOPLE.

WHERE THEY RIGHT NOW?

>> Lou: ARE YOU SPEAKING WITH PEOPLE IN UKRAINE RIGHT NOW?

>> Nataliya: YES.

FOR EXAMPLE, MY BROTHER AND HIS WIFE, WHEN THEY TRIED TO DISAPPEAR FROM BUCHA, BECAUSE THEY ALREADY LIKE DIDN'T HAVE -- THEY BOMB ALL THE TIME, BUCHA.

THEY COULDN'T GO OUT BECAUSE SNIPERS CAN KILL YOU.

TO SURVIVE THEY ATE SOME DRIED SPAGHETTI FOR THREE WEEKS, THEY DIDN'T TAKE A SHOWER BECAUSE THERE IS NO WATER, NO HEAT, LIKE, NOTHING.

AND I REMEMBER I WAS TALKING WITH MY BROTHER, I WAS LIKE SCREAMING AND YELLING AND CRYING, PLEASE, TRY TO DISAPPEAR, JUST TRY SOMEHOW.

AND MY BROTHER AND HIS WIFE TOOK THE CAR.

THEY SAW THE TANKS GOING TO THEM CLOSE AND THIS FRIEND'S CAR WAS IN FRONT OF MY BROTHER CAR.

AND THE TANK JUST GO OVER THE CAR AND MY BROTHER JUST ASSUMED HIS CAR WAS NEXT.

THANK GOD, THERE WAS LIKE A LITTLE STREET AND THEY TURNED LIKE LAST MOMENT AND TRIED TO DRIVE LIKE FAST AS THEY CAN AND WHAT HAPPENED, THAT WAS OLD STREET, DEAD BODIES.

AND MY BROTHER ACTUALLY, HIS WIFE WAS DRIVING, AND SHE WAS LIKE SCREAMING AND DRIVING THROUGH THE BODIES.

AND THEY SURVIVED.

>> Lou: I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE BEEN BACK RECENTLY.

WHAT WAS THAT EXPERIENCE LIKE FOR YOU?

>> Larysa: I CAME BACK TO UKRAINE IN NOVEMBER.

I WAS THERE TO PICK UP SOME OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS.

DRIVING THROUGH PITCH DARK CITIES BECAUSE THERE IS NO POWER.

IT WAS PRETTY UNUSUAL AND SCARY.

AND DRIVING ON A BUS THROUGH A BUNCH OF HOLES IN THE GROUND WHERE THE BOMBS FELL WAS JUST MIND BLOWING.

AND DRIVING THROUGH KYIV STREETS I SAW THOSE ANTI-TANK PROTECTIVE CONSTRUCTIONS AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT.

I GOT THERE SAFE.

I MET MY FAMILY.

I WAS VERY HAPPY TO DO THAT AND I JUST I TOLD MY MOM, LET'S HURRY UP, LET'S JUST GET TO SAFETY.

PREYING THAT THOSE BOMBS NOT GOING TO FALL ON OUR HEADS.

>> Lou: DO YOU THINK THAT WOMEN HAVE PLAYED A SPECIFIC ROLE?

>> Larysa: THEY LIKE THEIR FREEDOM.

AND RIGHT NOW IT IS OVER 60,000 OF WOMEN ARE IN UKRAINIAN ARMY.

THEY ARE SNIPERS.

THEY ARE MILITARY INTELLIGENCE.

MEDICS, PARAMEDICS, JUST FRONT LINE FIGHTERS.

THEY DO ANYTHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY BUILD THE FUTURE FOR THEIR KIDS.

>> HE THOUGHT THE WAR WOULD BREAK US, BUT THE WAR UNITED US.

IT MADE US STRONGER.

IT MADE US MORE FAITHFUL.

THIS IS WHAT HE DIDN'T COUNT ON.

HE THOUGHT IT WAS SO EASY JUST TO WALK INTO UKRAINE AND IN THREE DAYS IT WOULD BE HIS LAND.

HECK NO.

>> Larysa: WE WENT TO UKRAINE TO SEE WHAT CAN WE DO?

HOW CAN WE HELP?

AND WE WERE ORGANIZING A LOT OF FUNDRAISERS, A LOT OF FOOD BANKS DONATIONS.

>> Nataliya: I THINK WE HAVE DONE MORE THAN 10 RALLIES ALREADY.

WE NEED TO TALK TO PEOPLE, TO EXPLAIN BECAUSE EVERYBODY TIRED OF THE WAR.

SO, MORE THAN ONE YEAR.

IT IS A GENOCIDE OF UKRAINIAN NATIONALS.

IT CAN BE LIKE 80% OF UKRAINIANS CAN BE KILLED IF WE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS WAR AND MORE CONSCIENCE IN THE WORLD OF THIS WAR.

>> THIS PERSON CREATED ALL THE DISASTER.

YOU FREE TO DO WITH THIS PERSON WHATEVER YOU WANT.

TAKE A PIECE.

TAKE A PIECE, GUYS.

TEAR IT, RIP IT, SPIT ON IT, DO WHATEVER.

THAT IS WHAT THIS PERSON DESERVES.

>> NOT JUST THIS PERSON.

IT'S RUSSIA.

IT IS NOT ONLY HIM, IT IS ALL OF THEM.

PUTIN WILL NEVER STOP.

HE WILL FIGHT AND -- 76% OF PEOPLE IN RUSSIA SUPPORT WAR IN UKRAINE.

>> LET US STAND FOR ONE MINUTE OF SILENCE FOR THOSE WHO DEFEND OUR LAND.

>> Lou: WHAT DOES DEMOCRACY MEAN TO YOU?

>> Larysa: DEMOCRACY, THAT IS WHAT WE FIGHT FOR AND ON TOP OF OUR MIND IT IS BEING INDEPENDENT TO HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF ALL RELIGION, RIGHT.

ALL THE RIGHTS WE DEMAND AND NOT BEING DICTATED.

BECAUSE, RUSSIA COMES AND TELLS US WHAT TO DO, WHAT KIND OF RELIGION TO PREACH AND HOW TO TEACH OUR KIDS.

THEY WANT TO COMPLETELY ELIMINATE UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE AND THAT IS THEIR GOAL, TO DIMINISH OUR CULTURE, OUR IDENTITY, WITH WHO WE ARE.

THEY WANT US TO BE JUST THEIR MARIONETTES AND WHOEVER DON'T WANT TO GO THEIR WAY, THEY JUST KILL.

THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING RIGHT NOW.

THE GENOCIDE AGAINST THE UKRAINIAN NATION IS UNBELIEVABLE.

THEY ARE KILLING MERCILESSLY, EVERYONE, KIDS, CIVILIANS, WOMEN.

THEY DON'T CONSIDER US AS AN INDEPENDENT NATION.

THEY CONSIDER US THEIR SLAVES AND WE ARE NOT.

WE WILL ALWAYS PROVE WE ARE IN FACT OUR IDENTITY.

>> Nataliya: UKRAINE IS A YOUNG HISTORY WITH THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HISTORY.

AND RUSSIA, THEY ACTUALLY STOLE OUR HISTORY.

THEY STOLE EVEN OUR BORSCHT, YOU KNOW, IT IS SOME KIND OF SOUP, YOU KNOW.

I REMEMBER MY GRANDMOTHER HAD A SPECIAL BLOUSE LIKE -- IT IS CALLED A VYSHYVANKA AND MY GRANDMOTHER PUT THIS VYSHYVANKA, THE BLOUSE, LIKE UNDER SOMEWHERE TO MAKE LIKE A SECRET PLACE BECAUSE IF THE COMMUNISTS WILL FIND THESE KIND OF BLOUSES, THEY CAN KILL YOU.

THEY CAN KILL YOU.

THEY DIDN'T LET THEM TO WRITE POEMS IN UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE.

THEY TOOK THEM TO THE PRISON, TORTURE THEM, KILLED THEM.

AND I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A KID WE HAD NOT MANY UKRAINIAN SCHOOLS.

MOST OF THEM WERE RUSSIAN SCHOOLS AND WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME HERE, DOES UKRAINE IS A PART OF RUSSIA?

DO YOU HAVE YOUR LANGUAGE?

IT IS REALLY, LIKE, YES, WE HAVE OWN LANGUAGE, WE HAVE OWN CULTURE AND WE NOT PART OF RUSSIA.

YOU NEVER BE PART OF RUSSIA.

>> Lou: WHAT CAN WE DO FROM HERE TO HELP?

>> Nataliya: FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK ALL NEW MEXICANS BECAUSE WE FEEL THEIR SUPPORT.

WE SIGN A COUPLE OF UKRAINIAN FLAGS AND SENT TO DEFENDERS AND THEY SENT US PICTURES WHEN THE DEFENDER JUST LIKE HUG, YOU KNOW, HISSELF WITH THE FLAG, THEY READ -- SIGN, YOU KNOW, SOME PICTURES FOR THEM, WE SEND THEM PICTURE.

THE KIDS MADE IT AND THEY JUST PUT IT IN THEIR POCKETS AND THEY SAY, WE WILL SAVE OUR LIVES.

REALLY, THEY BELIEVE IN THIS.

JUST LITTLE THINGS, JUST IT WILL HELP, JUST DO SOMETHING SMALL.

YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE A BIG PROJECT OR LIKE A BIG FUND, JUST LITTLE THINGS THAT WILL HELP US AND ALSO IT MAKES OUR HEARTS WARM BECAUSE WE KNOW WE ARE NOT ALONE.

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