- Hello, I'm David Crabtree.

In October of 1971, the North Carolina General Assembly consolidated the University of North Carolina into a 16-campus system.

In 1972, William Friday was named the first president.

48 years later, the seventh president was named, Peter Hans.

Coming up, we'll look at what has changed and what continues to change in higher education as we focus on President Peter Hans.

- Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBSNC.

[bright music] ♪ - President Hans, good to see you.

Always good to be in the home here.

- Thank you, David.

It's good to be with you.

- Here we are in the midst of higher education doing what it can to continue its mission and its message to people all across the state.

Let's first talk about the enrollment throughout the university system and where it stands this year.

- So David, we passed a quarter of a million full-time equivalent students for the first time in UNC system's history.

That's a 3.5% increase, which is contrary to national trends that we've seen declining enrollment in higher education.

But I think that's a vote of choice for the UNC system and what a degree in the UNC system holds for students.

So we're very pleased with that.

- And across the country, I mean, you mentioned it being better here than in many parts of the country, but the demographic cliff that you've talked about before is still out there.

So you realize changes are still to come within those who choose to decide to go to a four-year institution and those who do not.

- Well, that's certainly the case, because the number of 18 to 24-year-olds will plateau and decline a bit.

That's just the birth rate.

There's nothing more complicated than that.

It's just the birth rate.

But I think it's an opportunity for us to do a better job of serving all North Carolinians, instead of relying solely on that traditional age range, to look more towards adult learners and how we might be helpful to them in their careers, particularly in a very dynamic economy where new fields are being created and diminished every day.

They may need a UNC System degree that's affordable and available and convenient to them.

- Well, you mentioned the degree a couple of times.

The power and just how substantial it is to have a degree out of the UNC System is quite remarkable.

We've been at this a long time, but if you could distill it, what would you say was the major reason for that degree's not only popularity, but its meaning?

- Well, our continued focus-- and it's been the hallmark of the University of North Carolina well before me-- to be affordable, to be accessible, and high quality.

And because we are well-run and we are well-supported by the people of North Carolina, we've been able to keep it accessible and affordable and high quality.

Thus, there is a higher return on investment for students who do earn a degree at a UNC System institution.

- You talked about tradition a moment ago.

There are so many traditions in higher education and integrity.

And you look at the landscape now and you see challenges that come in, such as AI, that can be a challenge or an opportunity.

AI, those two letters have become a central focus for what the university system is involved with and what it is challenged by.

- Well, indeed, that's true.

And I'd say that's true of society at large.

A tool-- technology is a tool.

It can be used for good or bad.

Plenty of examples where technology has improved the quality of our lives.

I would say social media is an example where it has probably diminished the quality of our life overall.

So the same will be true of AI as it grows in importance.

We're thinking more and more at the university about how do we expose our students to meaningful AI skills so they're prepared for the workplace but not become so reliant on AI that it does away with some of the basics that we grew up with, like reading books and absorbing information in different forms that don't necessarily involve technology, that deeper level of thinking and learning.

So we want to expose students to AI skills.

We want to try to achieve some operational efficiencies in that regard, simplify our processes to the benefit of our students, and also protect our research and our student data.

Because here's an example of where AI will not be a positive.

The bad guys are using AI to turbocharge cyber security efforts and hack people's data in a way using these AI tools.

And it's alarming.

So as the bad guys arm up in that way, we've got to protect more effectively.

- AI, first word being artificial.

Let's look at another A word of accreditation.

- Yes.

- That is huge.

And the UNC system is leading the way in the country right now in a new program or maybe an old program that's brought into a new way of being.

Tell us about that.

- We are.

Accreditation, of course, is key because it is essential to students accessing financial aid from the federal government.

Regional accreditors have traditionally blessed a school's accreditation at some level to make that possible.

Well, as happens over decades and decades, a system needs updating.

And we're talking about 60 years old system.

That needs a new regime that is more friendly to public universities who have so many layers of accountability that we have to duplicate for accreditation purposes.

It's very expensive.

It's very time consuming, particularly for smaller institutions.

So a group of public institutions, certainly in the South, but extending well beyond the South soon, has decided we'll apply for this status ourselves.

And it'll be run by a gentleman named Mark Becker, who was the president of the American Public Land Grant Universities, very well respected in higher education circles nationally, to minimize the time and the expense and the hassle on our smaller institutions, in particular, who often have to spend so much time and money duplicating processes that are already in place with existing layers of accountability.

- You're excited about that.

- I am.

It's very wonky.

It's actually very dull.

People are trying to view it through a political lens, which I understand reflects the day and time we live in.

But it is exciting, because we will save so much time and money.

Our campuses are very excited to participate.

- All right, let's talk about one more A word, and that's academic.

And put with that word-- - Are we going to go all the way through the alphabet?

- Well, we might.

We have time.

Academic, and let's add another word to that, freedom.

Talk about academic freedom.

Those two words have become buzzwords throughout the country now.

And what that means?

- Well, of course, it's more than a buzzword.

It's a bedrock principle embedded in the DNA of the university.

We're committed to the freedom for our faculty to pursue knowledge without fear of censorship or punishment.

And that hasn't changed, and it won't change.

Now, what has changed, of course, is the political climate that we live in.

And people being very critical of any teaching or research that they might not agree with.

Or people using teaching and research in such a way to promote a particular agenda, which is unfortunate.

But again, we live in this social media, politically polarized age.

And things are going to be taken out of context and for particular means.

But our commitment to academic freedom is not diminished.

- You mentioned research and the answer, and the political climate, and the age in which we live, research has been impacted dramatically this year, again, at universities across the country.

And for a while, it seemed like it was changing daily.

We didn't know what was going to come out of the nation's capital.

How do you feel the dust may have settled on that now?

And are professors and teaching institutions more confident they can move forward in research?

- Well, our researchers, and myself as well, would prefer more certainty in the federal funding climate about research.

Because that's essential to our long-term success.

However, having said that, here in Chapel Hill, the chancellor tells me we're down about 3% this year in research funding, which is not a typical variance.

Now, that's not much comfort to those who have had the research grants interrupted, nor the anxiety caused by changes.

I'm hoping we'll have more clarity on the federal level soon.

We're certainly trying to engage in a constructive fashion on this.

But again, our commitment to research and various funding sources, some of which will be diversified over time, will actually be a positive.

And I would say so much of the media coverage on this deals with the Ivy League.

Because that was, in many ways, the epicenter of these questions.

We aren't the Ivy League.

You know, as somebody who came from the community colleges, I tire of the media's almost exclusive focus on the Ivy League.

What about public universities, much less community colleges?

I think it distorts the picture that actually exists in higher education and causes unhelpful anxiety.

- And that's very frustrating.

- Enormously frustrating.

- OK, I know one of the things that-- look, we are here for this conversation in Chapel Hill.

So all around us, we see collaborations.

We see it in Raleigh, within NC State.

We see it across the state.

It's really important to see the collaborations between universities and local businesses and industries.

- Indeed.

Indeed.

I spent a good deal of time yesterday working with a large business that is looking to possibly come to North Carolina.

Economic development, so important.

They would like a master agreement with a number of our universities so they can deal with one operating agreement as opposed to multiple understandings.

And so we're trying to provide that at the system level.

But our universities do so much, not only to create research, which ultimately can be turned into economic development, but support those businesses looking to grow in North Carolina.

And of course, churning out annually great talent.

The first thing on every business's mind when they're thinking about North Carolina or expanding here is, can I hire the people with the skills that we need to be successful?

- That has been something businesses and industries have been challenged with for decades.

- Absolutely.

Absolutely.

- I mean, I can remember that years ago, people saying, we're not getting the workforce we need.

And government pushing back and saying, but we're providing that workforce.

I know we're making progress, but it seems to be slow at times.

- With regard to preparing people for the workforce, well, of course, there are different conceptions.

From the business perspective, they would like to receive talent that's ready to start day one, proficient in a field.

And of course, the purpose of a higher education is more than preparing you for a very specific job in a specific field, particularly given, again, dynamic economy where new fields are being created and old ones diminish in their employment numbers.

So you want to be prepared for a lifetime of learning, critical thinking, that you can adapt to that economy, and prepared to know so much more about subjects that not only make you a capable worker, but a strong thinker and a good citizen.

- Look at the map of the UNC system and see these wonderful universities all across the state, all living in the same economy, stronger in some areas than others, but all facing financial challenges.

That's something you-- I have to think you wake up every day, and it's one of the things right in front of you, of how those challenges are going to be met.

So talk with us a little bit about what those challenges are now and how they are being met.

- Well, so the financial health of the university system is strong, is very strong.

It's essentially the North Carolina formula of great public investment and support on a bipartisan basis, forever and ever, supporting the universities.

Supporting community colleges, by the way, investing in education.

That's a great positive for us.

But combining that public support and investment with fiscal responsibility and how we run the university to become more efficient, I think has enabled us to keep costs down, make it accessible to all North Carolinians, and maintain the opportunity to improve quality at the same time.

To do all three things at once is the reason why so many other states come to us and say, how are you doing this?

Because they're under more financial pressure, either because of lower public investment or not running as efficiently.

- Mr.

President, there was an announcement a few months ago about collaboration and a partnership between the University of North Carolina and Duke University on a children's hospital.

Major, major plans there.

Where does that stand today?

- It's a great partnership here between two amazing universities, two wonderful health systems in UNC Health and Duke Health to build a specialized children's hospital.

It's going to be located in Western Wake County, near the highway, so it's easily accessible to as many people as possible.

The state has already invested $380 million in this.

They'll certainly invest some more over time as we build this up.

Both Duke and UNC are fundraising to contribute to that figure.

And they'll roll in their practices in those fields in order to support this multibillion dollar project.

And it's interesting, because I hear people ask the question, well, don't we have children's hospitals elsewhere?

And of course, we have regular practices in this area, and they're called children's hospitals.

But this is a very specialized level of care.

Right now, North Carolina sends thousands of very young people to other states, because we really don't have the facilities and the level of care that exists in some other places.

Well, that can be very difficult on families who aren't able to travel easily with their loved ones.

And so to have that here in North Carolina and more accessible to everyone, that's going to be critical to meeting that need.

- It has the opportunity to transform this region and this state, particularly two great research institutions being involved with this.

So it's the care.

It's the potential for new ways of treatment, for solving problems in ways that is going to last generations that we haven't seen before.

- Well, that's exactly right.

It may be, at the end of the day, one of the largest economic development projects in the state's history.

Now, we're doing it for the care it can provide, the support it can provide for children and families.

But it has the additional benefit of great growth in North Carolina, potential to spin off research from this over time, attract grants in that regard, and make life-saving, life-changing advances in medical care for young people who are in great need.

- We talked about the 16-campus consortium, if you will, that makes up the UNC system.

There was a while-- - Well, 17 with science and math.

Now, 16 universities.

- Oh my gosh.

- Yes.

We'll forgive you this time.

- I was never good at science and math.

Maybe that was a Freudian slip.

I'm not sure.

- No, no.

- But within these institutions, they all have leaders.

They have chancellors.

And for a while, there were consistent chancellor searches.

Right now, that has ended.

- Happily for me, because of course I put together the chancellor search committees and ultimately charged with the responsibility of nominating a chancellor to the Board of Governors for approval.

We had some delayed retirements because of COVID.

And I compliment all those who stayed a little bit longer than they expected to or probably wanted to.

But it was important to maintain steady leadership during that turbulent time.

And so we had a wave that seemed to come in two stages.

And we've worked our way through it.

And we haven't had a chancellor search this year and hopefully not next year either.

We've got a very capable group of leaders, as you know.

- Yes, and a great energy amongst those leaders who care passionately about students and higher education.

- Indeed, they do.

- Part of that care goes back to the financial side that you discussed a little bit earlier.

I know it's important to you, to the Board of Governors, to the chancellors, to provide a pathway and a runway for students, potential students, in regard to scholarships, but also in regard to students who simply can't afford to go.

And there's a system in place now that people may not be aware of or may have forgotten that's allowing those students to do so.

- Yeah, we have a number of initiatives in this area.

I think you're referring to NC Connect, which essentially reaches out to students who would qualify for admission somewhere in the university and lets them know they've been pre-accepted.

And here's how to access financial aid, to work your way very simply through the admissions process, not a laborious, tedious one where you wait to hear for months and months and months, so that they can fully understand.

Sometimes the gap between the perception of the cost of a UNC system education and the reality of it is significant.

There's so much attention on the costs of higher education that they may not realize how accessible and affordable it is, particularly if you're a first-generation college student, as I was.

And so to provide that information, to simplify it for them, to help make it easy for them to achieve their dreams, that's what we're about.

- You were first generation, and you graduated from-- - I am.

--University-- - I'm still here, I guess.

Thank you.

- Yes.

University of North Carolina in 1991.

Yes.

What did you major in?

- Political science.

Political science.

- Did you have a focus on where you wanted to be, what you wanted to do?

- No, I found it intriguing once I arrived here and began taking various courses.

A mentor, Dr.

Tad Bile, who is a legend in political science circles in North Carolina and nationally, took an interest in me for some reason and helped stir some of my interest.

I cannot tell you how many hours I spent in beautiful Wilson Library here in Chapel Hill, just researching through the North Carolina collection and all of these wonderful archives.

And it spurred an interest.

In fact, it wasn't even a class assignment after a while, just an interest I developed.

And Dr.

Bill Luchtenberg, who's one of the preeminent American historians, took a similar interest.

I had an opportunity to join in a memorial service for him earlier this year.

What an honor to do so as president of the university.

I'm not sure that he saw a future president, but he surely saw somebody that he would kindle a love of history.

And the role that faculty members can play in mentoring young people and sparking those unknown interests, it's amazing.

- I think it's a sparking of the interest that you as a student have no idea may be embedded within you and that spark happens.

- I did not.

- And you spent time in Washington for a number of years.

- I did, five years, yes.

- You did five years.

You sound like a sentence.

- Well, that was an easier time upon reflection.

But yes, working on Capitol Hill, three members of the United States Senate, wonderful learning experience.

They delegated far too much responsibility to young people, which was a wonderful opportunity for me to learn and grow.

And yes, what a great-- I encourage young people to go, or I used to, at least, to go to Washington.

And opportunity to learn so many things and be exposed to world events and world leaders, you grow from that.

- We have both been exposed to people and events and institutions that, had it not been for higher education, probably would not have happened.

- We have been blessed.

- Yes, we have.

And had a few lucky bounces along the way.

- But rather be lucky than good, probably more lucky than good.

- About 30 seconds left here, Mr.

President.

What's the best thing about your job?

- The feeling that we're making a long-term difference in that accessibility, affordability, and quality.

The gap between the coverage of higher education, which seems to focus so much on politics, and the reality of what we spend our time working on is vast.

I feel like we're making a long-term difference, helping more students graduate with a degree that's going to be helpful to them and helpful to society without debt.

- President Peter Hans of the UNC system, we thank you for your time.

- Thank you, David, as always.

- And thank you for joining us.

[bright music] ♪ ♪ - Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBSNC.