[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - Hey, everyone, Steve Adubato.

Yes, we are electing a new governor.

It'll be a new governor in January, 2026.

These two guys know an awful lot about people running for governor and serving the governor.

Phil Alagia is Democratic Strategist, Chief of Staff for the County Executive in Essex County, Joe DiVincenzo.

Phil is also a very strong advocate and advisor for Democrat Mikie Sherrill running for governor.

And his friend and colleague on the GOP side is Dale Florio, Republican Strategist with Princeton Public Affairs, known Jack Ciattarelli for 35 years, Dale?

- 30 years, yeah.

30 years+.

Hey, listen, Phil, if you were to pick the number one issue that will determine who the next governor will be, what would that be and why?

- Making New Jersey affordable and fighting back against Trump and the craziness that's happening in Washington.

- Okay.

Dale.

- Don't disagree about the affordability issue.

I mean, it's huge.

Right, we talk about it all the time.

The question is, how do you get there?

- Okay, let's talk about getting there because I've heard your candidate, Jack Ciattarelli, talk about Mikie Sherrill as a progressive, liberal Democrat who just wants to raise taxes, and it's just Phil Murphy 2.0, make the case, and then I'll get Phil back in.

- Well, she's going to have to defend her record in Congress, right?

So those are things that'll come out.

I mean, I don't think she's as far left as Ras Baraka and Steve Fulop are, but she's not as moderate as Josh Gottheimer and Steve Sweeney.

She kind of, you know, went up the middle there.

But, you know, she has some things on her congressional record that she'll have to defend.

Plus, she'll have to defend 25 years of a Democratic majority in the state and the last eight years of Phil Murphy, much like she's going to say that Jack Ciattarelli is, you know, just the son of Donald Trump.

So, both candidates are going to have to wear what's going on in the state and nationally.

- Phil your turn.

- Well, listen, Jack Ciattarelli has been in the legislature as early as 2011, which is a long time ago.

New Jersey needs new fresh leadership.

Mikie Sherrill got involved after Trump was elected first.

She has a dynamic resume.

She really will bring change.

She's not a trained insider, has not been involved in the legislature in Trenton ever.

And I think it's a fresh new voice that the state needs.

We need a new direction.

- Well, what's this whole thing about, first of all, she's a member of Congress, so she is in fact an elected official, a very high-level legislative position in Washington.

But I'm curious about this, as a former state legislator in a very different life, Phil, you don't need to bring up that I serve one term in lost very quickly, nobody cares.

But here's what's more important: Why is that a bad thing, Dale and then Phil, if someone served in the legislature, served in public life, as if that's a badge to be embarrassed by?

Dale.

- It's not a bad thing.

And I think in the case of Jack, he basically term-limited himself.

He term-limited himself when he was on this Raritan Borough Council.

He served on the Somerset County Board of Freeholders, now Commissioners, and decided to move on to the Assembly.

Spent six years in the Assembly, and then decided that, you know, he was going to run for governor.

So, he's not one who believes in staying in one place at one time, and he feels he has something to offer.

So, I think that government experience works pretty well.

I think, thus, the president learned a lot in his first four terms, in his first four years.

And I think he's approached the presidency with that four-year experience in a much better way this time.

- So Phil, Dale is saying that President Trump is a more mature and seasoned and ready executive because of his previous term.

You say what to that, and what does that have to do with this New Jersey election for governor, one of only two in the nation along with Virginia, after the presidential race of 2024?

Go ahead, Phil Alagia.

- Well, it's clear, I mean, recent polls have indicated that Trump is upside down in favorability, 62, 53, 54% unfavorable, and that's nationally, Steve.

In New Jersey, those numbers are much, much higher.

The State of New Jersey is not for Donald Trump and the craziness that he's bringing to the country, to the White House.

For New Jersey voters, they're going to want someone in the governor's office who's going to fight Trump, who's going to make sure that when he has these crazy executive orders, that our attorney general sues and fights against him, and Mikie Sherrill is going to do that.

Jack Ciattarelli has made it clear he is a MAGA Republican, rarely disagrees, if ever, to Donald Trump.

And if you're a New Jersey resident and you want Donald Trump and his ideas to come into New Jersey, then you should vote for Jack Ciattarelli.

- But don't we want a governor who also works with who the president is?

Isn't that what Chris Christie did with Barack Obama in connection with Hurricane Sandy, Superstorm Sandy, Phil?

- Again, funny you bring up Superstorm Sandy because Jack Ciattarelli voted three times when he was in the legislature to not fund relief for New Jersey residents.

But I think we want a governor who, when it's appropriate to work with whatever leader she can to make sure New Jersey gets what they deserve and what will help New Jersey.

But ultimately, when it comes to abortion rights, when it comes to immigration rights, when it comes to a lot of this MAGA stuff, we do not want to stand with Donald Trump.

- Dale, talk about Jack Ciattarelli as a potential governor and his potential relationship with President Trump, the leader in the Republican party and the leader in the country.

- Jack is a Jersey guy who was born here, he lived here, raised his family here, his parents were here.

That makes him unique in this matchup, by the way.

And he's all about doing what's important for New Jersey to the extent that he's going to have to disagree with the president, and I'm not sure what those issues will be down the road, he will disagree and say, "This is what's important to New Jersey."

When he agrees with the president, he's going to agree with him.

We can only hope that the Sherrill campaign just wants to make this all about Donald Trump.

Because I think the people in New Jersey want to hear about, you know, ways to fix New Jersey, like the new school funding formula, right?

Like affordable housing.

Like reducing the income tax and breaking it down to, like we have five or six categories on the income tax, breaking it down to three.

Lowering the corporate taxes.

We can compete with Pennsylvania.

Those are things that people care about in New Jersey, not whether you're going to be able to scream loudest about Donald Trump.

- Well, let me also be clear, we're taping this in mid to late June, it'll be seen after.

We don't know what's going to happen in the Middle East.

And someone might say, "Steve, why are you bringing up Iran and the United States and Israel?"

Well, it matters.

Because it's a New Jersey issue, it's a national issue, it's an international issue.

We don't know what's going to play out.

Phil, to what extent do you believe do national and international issues, particularly if it involves the potential for the United States to be more engaged and involved in the Middle East, could have on a gubernatorial race?

Phil.

- I think the impact it could have is the mood of the voters.

The governor of New Jersey really doesn't have any say on what happens internationally, but I would want no one better than a former Navy pilot, who was a Russian intelligence officer in the Navy, in the governor's office to provide whatever insight and assistance she can to the residents of New Jersey.

- You're talking about Mikie Sherrill with that background?

- Absolutely.

- Dale.

- The congresswoman has been shaky at best in her support of Israel.

And she's going to have to account for some of the votes that she's taken, which send a signal that she's not necessarily all in with Israel.

We have a tremendous Jewish population, a very active Jewish population in New Jersey, and they'll be listening to what she has to say.

- Phil, is it fair to say that the Republicans are much more united, and listen, we don't do political prognostication, we're much more into policy and issues, but it's about politics too.

That the Republicans are way more unified behind Jack Ciattarelli and Donald Trump, as we speak right now.

But that the Democrats had this very divisive primary, where two of the candidates, the mayors of Newark and Jersey City, who ran and both did well, particularly Ras Baraka, they were very critical of the Democratic nominee for governor.

How the heck did the Democrats come together when in fact, the further progressive left within the party is saying that Democrats can't be moderate and mainstream, the Democrats have to shift gears dramatically, Phil?

And that includes Mikie Sherrill to them.

- I think Mikie Sherrill, you know, the narrative about the progressive part of the party not being with her, she won Warren County and Sussex County, the only two counties that Bernie Sanders won.

So, Mikie's support goes across all demographics, moderate Democrats, progressive Democrats, independent.

She is an unbelievable candidate who will do well.

The Democratic party is united, having a big primary where we had over 800,000 people come out and vote, an unprecedented number of people who wanted to make sure they elected a strong Democrat, is only going to transfer to a huge plurality and a huge victory in November.

- Dale, let me ask you something.

When it comes to ICE, mass deportation, we saw what happened out in Los Angeles, we saw the president send in the National Guard and the Marines, and he said it could happen in other places.

Again, we hope and pray that does not happen and we do not want to see any violence in our streets.

Along those lines, where is Jack Ciattarelli on the issue of immigration?

Because he keeps calling New Jersey a, quote, "Sanctuary state."

Is that an official designation, Dale?

- It's certainly a talking point that was started by the governor.

- Governor Murphy.

- Governor Murphy, yes.

What Jack Ciattarelli will ensure is that New Jersey state law enforcement will work with ICE on matters that ICE deems important in terms of looking for people in New Jersey that shouldn't be here.

And that has not been the case.

I think just weeks ago, the attorney general reissued a directive to the state police not to help the ICE officials on certain types of warrants.

And that won't be the case under Ciattarelli administration.

It'll be working with ICE, full-time, whenever they need them, whenever they need the state.

- So, and under Ciattarelli governorship, state police, law enforcement professionals will be either forced, or whatever you want to say, to be engaged and work with ICE.

Even if they believe that people who are here without documentation who are not criminals and engaged in violent crime, they just have to be removed, whether it's in a church, or a bodega, or a school.

- Well right now, whether it's a criminal, right now, as I understand it, whether it's a criminal or civil complaint filed against an illegal immigrant, the State of New Jersey is not supporting ICE as it relates to these civil issues, right?

My understanding is that they are helping out on the criminal side, but not completely on the civil side.

So we're not even talking about people that are here illegally, but don't have anything pending against them.

- Phil, I want to give you the final word on this complex immigration, mass deportation issue, which is going to matter greatly in this campaign.

- Well, first of all, I do not want to give Mikie's view on that because that's up to her.

But she's been a former federal prosecutor who's been involved in the criminal justice system, I'm sure she wants to make sure that ICE agents are not going crazy to our towns and arresting people for no reason and locking people up and detaining people.

But, you know.

- But they're here illegally, Phil.

You're saying for no reason, they're here illegal.

- I think undocumented is a better word.

- Okay, go ahead.

- So listen, I'm sure she wants a fair process so people can get to citizenship.

I'm sure that anyone, the way I feel is anyone who has committed a serious crime should not be allowed to stay in this country.

But, you know, I think that, ultimately, the undocumented community, people who come here for what this country is all about.

Coming here, getting citizenship, and being productive members on our society.

- We'll continue talking with leaders like Phil Alagia on the Democratic side and Dale Florio on the Republican side.

This race is huge, one of only two, as I said, in the country, two gubernatorial races after Donald Trump was elected president.

New Jersey is a bellwether.

It is not so blue as some people think.

It's going to be interesting to see who becomes the next governor, and will engage those candidates.

Jack Ciattarelli on the Republican side, Mikie Sherrill on the Democratic side, an in depth issue-oriented discussion about the next governorship.

To Dale and to Phil, thanks for joining us, gentlemen.

- [Both] Thanks, Steve.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

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