- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of State of Affairs with Steve Adubato has been provided by Operating Engineers, Local 825.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

New Brunswick Development Corporation.

Holy Name.

The New Jersey Education Association.

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And by New Jersey Manufacturing Extension Program.

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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato, we kick off the program with Phil Alagia, democratic strategist and chief of staff to the county executive in Essex County, Joe DiVincenzo.

Hey, Phil, how you doing?

- I'm doing fantastic, Steve, how are you?

Happy Veterans Day to everyone out there.

- We're taping this on Veterans Day, it is also a week after a very important historic election in New Jersey, Virginia, New York, across the country, California redistricting for congressional seats.

Hey, Phil, you're in a good mood a week after the election because...?

- I'm in a good mood politically because Mikie Sherrill and the team hit it out of the park, her campaign, you know, was criticized a lot before the election day, people came up to me saying, "We're not doing it up in the city, she's not doing it up here, she's not connecting with the people," and people like Alex Ball and Jackie Burns, and her campaign team, you know, steadfast on making Trump a big party issue, putting a plan out there and coming through this with an amazing victory, I mean, it's a mandate, it's something that nationally, people need to take consideration of how well she did, how strong she did, and I think she becomes a leader in the party nationally.

- And by the way, Phil mentioned Alex Ball, who's the new chief of staff for the new governor, and again, things will be changing, there'll be all kinds of things happening during this, quote, "transition," and we're recording during the transition and we'll do an in-depth half-hour interview with new governor Mikie Sherrill and we'll talk issues, and, Phil, speaking of issues, I said this on, doing an election night commentary that while we congratulate Mikie Sherrill for a 13-point victory in New Jersey, on some level, I'm not sure what she won, Phil, because she takes on the mantle of a whole range of serious challenges and problems in the state of New Jersey as governor, and name the top two or three, go.

- Well, not that we're counting, but as absentee votes come in, it's over 14% right now, so it's an even bigger victory, but... - Not that you care about the numbers, Phil.

(laughs) - I am a numbers guy, but Steve, absolutely, I mean, I think that's why Mikie Sherrill is a perfect person, she's a different kinda leader, but there are serious affordability issues in the state of New Jersey, there's serious budget issues and questions, people wanna make sure New Jersey's affordable, I think Mikie has to put together a team that's gonna be different than... That other governors have done before her, I think there's problems that we haven't had to deal with, number one, she talked about immediate freeze on utility costs, she has to get that done on day one to fulfill that promise.

- How...?

Phil, how the heck do you do that?

- I think she's gotta work with the utilities companies, I think she's gotta find ways to keep costs down, I think we have to find new ways to create energy in the state of New Jersey, I talked to executives yesterday and, you know, a big problem is artificial intelligence, AI are becoming huge users of energy, which has had an impact on how we're providing, it's not just providing household energy, it's all this commercial energy that's needed, and I think, you know, unfortunately, in the previous administration, made a big bet on wind, at the time, they thought that was a good idea, but it really hasn't paid off the way they thought, and now, Mikie and the new administration has to come in here and figure out energy, figure out how to keep costs down, and most importantly, see, you and I both have teenagers, we want our kids to be able to buy a house in New Jersey and live in New Jersey, and too many of 'em now, when they start working age, they're moving out of state, she needs... The new administration and Governor Sherrill, Governor-elect Cheryl needs to make sure that our children can afford to stay in New Jersey, and I think that's what she's gonna do.

- Yeah, by the way, I... By way of background, it's not in Phil's bio, but Phil mentions our kids, and our daughters have played against each other in softball, Phil has a history, you could check... Do the whole thing on... Check out Phil Alagia, he has a 30-year-plus history in coaching in the field of women's, girls' softball, and he is an icon in that field, but that's not what this... - Thank you, New Jersey pride, I gotta give them a plug.

- Look at you plugging away.

Hey Phil, how about this?

President Trump, gonna be there for the next several years, Mikie Sherrill the next four years, how the heck does Governor Sherrill engage and interact with President Trump?

With so many decisions being made in Washington, including, as we speak, Gateway tunnel terminated, we'll see what happens, how does she engage him given how critical she has been of him and his policies?

- Well, I think she has to do whatever she needs to do to provide resources for the state of New Jersey, I think when it's time to stand up and fight for Trump, fight Trump and the administration in Washington, she's gonna do it, I think ultimately, what she talked about recently and I liked was that we send significantly more dollars back to D.C.

with taxes, and we don't get enough in return.

She's talking about maybe we keep some of that money, maybe we hold that money and use that as leverage against the federal government, I think where it's appropriate, she's gonna deal with anyone that can help the residents of New Jersey, but ultimately, fight against the things that she doesn't believe the Trump administration is doing correctly.

- Phil, do you actually believe that Mikie Sherrill, or any governor, with all the talk, and Phil's run a lot of campaigns statewide, he's also been shoulder-to-shoulder with the county executive Joe DiVincenzo in many winning elections in Essex County, and full disclosure, Phil and I go back more than a few years with Joe D as neighborhood friends, let's call it that because that's what it is.

Phil, let me ask you this, do you think any governor, including Mikey Sherrill, in spite of what's said in a campaign, Phil, can actually do something in a meaningful way to, quote, "Reduce property taxes," when your property tax bill is a product, last time I checked, of the school budget, county taxes and the amount of state funding a community gets, what can a governor really do?

- I mean, I look at Joe as a perfect example, correct?

We, we... You don't hear a lot, people complain about taxes in Essex County and they always will, but I think people believe that we are, they're getting a dollar's worth of products for a dollar's pay, so new parks, new roads, new bridges, government under glass, as you mentioned before, transparency, I think, you know, it's very hard to reduce taxes, right?

And I don't think that was a pledge by anyone, the pledge was to make New Jersey affordable, to balance expenses, I think Mikie and the new administration has to make sure that we make New Jersey affordable, that every dollar that people are paying, they're getting a dollar back in government, and resources, and help for their family, I think there's gonna be a lot of tough decisions, and I think if the public believes that the governor is prioritizing what they're interested in, great schools, great infrastructure, great parks and recreation, then that'll be less of an issue, I think when you're paying high taxes and you don't believe that you're getting services back, that's where the issue is.

- Phil Alagia, democratic strategist on a lot of campaigns as we speak right now, the chief of staff in Essex County for the county executive, Joe DiVincenzo, Phil, thank you for joining us, we'll continue the conversation as Governor Sherrill takes office and takes on a lot of the issues that Phil just talked about, thank you, Phil, appreciate it.

- Thank you so much, Steve, thanks for having me.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To see more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato programs, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're joined once again by our good friend from Seton Hall University, Professor Matthew Hale, associate professor at the Department of Political Science and Public Affairs at Seton Hall University, one of our longtime higher-ed partners, good to see you, Matt.

- Hey, good to be here.

- Let's do this, your biggest takeaway, we're gonna talk about energy policy, you did some research funded by the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 825, one of our long-time underwriters, we'll talk about that in a second, but your biggest takeaway, we're taping this a week after the gubernatorial election in New Jersey, your biggest takeaway and message from that election would be?

- That New Jersey really, really doesn't like Donald Trump, I think that Trump was issue number one, two, and three of this election, and the results showed, really, really unpopular, so I think the biggest takeaway is not a Trump state, for sure.

- What do you believe the top two or three issues will be for Governor Sherrill when she takes office in January 20th, 2026?

- Certainly think it's gonna be energy policy, affordability, anything she can do with NJ transit, I think the most important issues or things, quality of life, day-to-day, New Jersey-focused issues, I think those are gonna be the most important.

- Yeah, let's go back to energy, so Greg Lalevee, our mutual friend over at 825, was talking to me about this, and there's been all kinds of, excuse me, discussion and a lot of confusion around energy policy.

You conducted some research funded by 825, International Union of Operating Engineers Local 825, on energy policy in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York.

Matt, the most significant findings would be?

- So I think the biggest thing is I looked at decision-making over 10 years, and so, it was a long-term decision, and I think that the biggest takeaway is that New Jersey did not have a plan B, they put all of their eggs in one basket with wind power.

No wind power got built, no energy got created, and I think that's a big reason why we've got higher energy prices.

It's clearly not the only reason, but it was an all-or-nothing strategy and I think we're suffering for it.

- What did Pennsylvania and/or New York do differently?

- Well, you know, Pennsylvania actually closed more coal plants than New York or New Jersey combined, they had more to start with, but they actually closed more coal plants, but when they close a fossil fuel like coal, they transition it to natural gas, and then, when they close a natural gas, they transition it to something else, so they sort of had this kind of off-ramp, a way towards, getting towards more renewables, but doing it in a way that energy supply wasn't gonna go down, and I think that's sort of the biggest lesson, is that, yes, everybody wants to get to renewable energies, but there's a pathway that needs to be followed and that includes doing things until we get to the renewable goals.

- Matt, talk to us about nuclear energy and New Jersey energy policy moving forward from your perspective, if you were advising the new governor in this regard.

- I actually would say that she should start the process for a new nuclear power plant as soon as possible, I think that she should come out of the gate saying, "This is something..." It takes a long time for that to happen, it's not gonna happen tomorrow, but I think announcing that that's a goal, I think, would be a great way for her to start.

You know, I also think that there's some new types of nuclear energy, there's small modular reactors, which are not the big, you know, sort of ones that you think about, they're not quite neighborhood but they tend to be smaller, those are starting to be something we ought to look at quite a bit, so I think nuclear is a big part of the energy future, but it takes a while and it's gotta get started.

- Speaking about taking a while, the governor has said, Governor-elect as we speak, as we're taping, but she'll be the governor.

Mikie Sherrill has talked about reducing, well, freezing utility costs, energy costs on day one.

What can she do on day one, and what can't she do on day one?

- Well, she can certainly try the process of freezing energy costs, my first thought of it was that it was a jobs program for lawyers, but I also... - Why is that, Matt?

- Because I actually think that there's gonna be litigation almost immediately if something like that happens, but I think the way to think about that idea is that this is a negotiated process, she's negotiating with transmitters, negotiating with PJM, with BPU... - Hold on, let's watch out for the acronyms, P... Explain to folks who PJM are.

- That... So PJM is the regional grid that takes care of about 13 or 14 states, that manages energy supply and prices, and it's a complicated process about how prices are set, and the reason why her concept of freezing on day one is that's part of a strategy for getting PJM, or PSE&G, or BPU, those are all... - The Board of Public Utilities.

- The Board of Public Utilities, those are all things that she's gonna have to negotiate with over the next several years, so saying we're gonna stop immediately is a great opening move to say, "We've got this as a high priority, so let's figure out how to get costs down with all the different entities."

- Matt, with your research on energy policy in New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, to what degree did you take into account artificial intelligence and the massive amount of energy being consumed, used and taken up through AI?

- So it is without a doubt that AI is growing and the energy needs are growing, and they only get bigger and bigger.

One of the interesting things about data centers is that they can be self-contained energy grids.

They can have their own energy source, so it's whether or not they need to tap into the grid, maybe there's other ways that they can provide energy, solar on the roofs and all of those things.

- Oh, solar what?

- Solar on top of the roof of a data center, right?

I mean, there are some sort of creative things that you can do, but we absolutely need to make sure that we're competitive for those because that's a big part of the future.

- Matt, before I let you go, The future of public media in the state of New Jersey, as we speak, is challenged.

Those of us in public media are gonna be a part of that solution.

Let folks understand why it's critically important that New Jersey has a meaningful, independent public media operation, regardless of who operates it, for our representative democracy to be healthy.

- New Jersey does not have its own broadcast media market, we get things from New York and we get things from Philadelphia, having a public media in, based in New Jersey is where New Jersey news happens, I've done research on this, I did it in the past, New Jersey public television stations cover New Jersey in a way that New York and Philadelphia just don't, and I think that's really essential because it is a big state.

You know, one of the things that that used to be true is that New Jersey has less broadcast stations than North Nebraska, and that seems insane to me, but it's because we're next to the two big cities, New Jersey public media and having a public media is essential to having an informed populace about New Jersey - Devil's advocate, 30 seconds or less, someone says, "I get my information from TikTok, I get my information from my algorithm..." "The algorithm on my phone," what's the issue with that?

- That you get it from TikTok and the algorithm, the problem is, is you're being fed information rather than you're having time to digest information, public media and broadcast television go into way more depth, way more both sides of an issue, to have a complete understanding of what's going on on any issue, I think you need more depth than you're gonna get in TikTok and I think public media is a way to make that happen.

- And you're never gonna find an interview this long on TikTok.

- Absolutely, we'd be done a long time... We would be done a long time ago.

- And then, we don't apologize for that.

That's Professor, Dr.

Matthew Hale, associate professor of the Department of Political Science and Public Affairs at our higher-ed partner, at Seton Hall University, thanks, Matt, we'll talk soon.

- All right, thanks, Steve, talk to you later.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To see more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato programs, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're joined once again by our good friend and colleague, Max Pizarro, Editor-in-Chief InsiderNJ.com, our longtime media partner.

The website is up.

Hey, Max, how you doing, buddy?

- Hey, Steve.

How you doing, man?

Good to see you.

- Good to see you.

Hey, biggest takeaway for you from the important election of November 4th?

- I think, New Jersey dealt a blow, and sent a very strong message to the perpetually whining president of the United States.

They don't like where the country is under his leadership and his watch, and they said so at the polls.

- Max, you fought, and by the way, go on the Insider NJ to find out more of Max's work and the other great stuff there.

This is the headline.

I don't know if you wrote the headline, Max.

"Trump defeats Ciattarelli."

He wasn't even on the ballot, Max, explain.

- Yes, sir, I did write that headline.

I felt that, Steve, the night before election day, Jack Ciattarelli appeared in the hometown where he grew up, his childhood home of Raritan.

He stood beneath the statue of John Basilone, Congressional Medal of Honor winner and a hero to the entire country.

- World War II.

- Yes, sir.

- Yep.

- And I think that Jack Ciattarelli was trying to live in that shadow, but he couldn't escape the shadow of Donald Trump.

When this election cycle began, people talked about affordability being the overriding issue, and it was, but Trump continually interfered, reminding people that life in New Jersey has gotten more unaffordable for people, and he's not done anything to help the economy.

And so, Jack Ciattarelli couldn't get out from under that shadow.

- So again, tariffs, we'll talk issues.

Max, I was talking to Max offline.

I said, Max, you know, it's interesting.

I try to separate politics from policy and it doesn't work.

Right, Max?

You can't separate them.

- Let's go through all the issues, Steve.

- Okay.

- Unemployment is up.

- Do tariffs.

- Sure, tariffs.

So tariffs have not, in fact, at this point in time, shown to do anything to help people's economic needs.

They've, in fact, made things more expensive and they've made life more difficult for people.

- Gateway Tunnel.

And again, as we speak, allegedly, there's an agreement on the shutdown.

Government's gonna function again, allegedly, but by January 30th, there's gonna be another deadline.

We don't know where that is, but Gateway Tunnel.

Why are you shaking your head, Max?

- Because the president jumped into the last month of this apparently close election, and said that he had terminated the Gateway Tunnel.

And that certainly did Ciattarelli no favors, Steve.

It was a blow in the north, both to commuters who are depending on that tunnel to be finished, and the workers, 100,000 workers who have jobs at that tunnel.

So, it seemed to be a vindictive move by the President when he announced, almost gleefully, that he had terminated the tunnel.

- Immigration, mass deportation, ICE raids.

- Again, when you have an aggressive ICE policy, immigration and naturalization customs, masked men with guns, throwing public officials in handcuffs in our urban areas and also separating families.

Look, Steve, by the time this was all over, we watched Latino voters, who had in fact voted for Trump in Passaic last year.

go to Mikie Sherrill in large numbers.

68% of Latinos went to the Sherrill campaign.

And again, it was the ICE immigration policy, seen as overly aggressive, seen as cruel by this Trump administration that in part contributed to that result.

- Max, you and I talk policy all the time.

President, excuse me, Governor Sherrill is gonna face a whole series of challenges.

Top three, you're on, Max.

- Well, listen, I think the top one is going to be the utility rate.

She promised that she would create a state of emergency on day one.

Now that's gonna be very difficult, Steve.

It's a tremendous problem.

We have a lack of energy in this state.

She's talked about the things she wants to do.

She wants to incentivize solar energy.

She wants to create nuclear energy.

It's a big issue, Steve, okay.

That's number one.

Housing.

Housing is a tremendous issue.

It always has been in New Jersey, the financial industry.

- Affordable housing.

- Affordable housing.

We don't have affordable housing in this state.

So, in fact, Ras Baraka, who came in second in the primary, would only endorse Mikie Sherrill if she promised to do something, if she promised to create more affordable housing in New Jersey.

So that's number two.

And I think number three, she's going to be saddled with a president, now, he's been weakened because of the results, but of course, he hasn't acknowledged the results.

He hasn't acknowledged the possibility that he might have been responsible for those results.

And so, we have a vindictive president who's gonna be out to get Sherrill and out to get New Jersey.

- But hold on, Max, what does that mean out to get, there are 9.5 million people in the state.

What does it mean to get back at Mikie Sherrill for what she said about him in the campaign?

What impact does that have on 9.5 million residents of the state?

- Sure, Mikie Sherrill will be in a position where she will have to claw back the federal dollars that Trump and his Republican enablers at the federal level will be tried to withhold from New Jersey at every turn, Steve.

- But how does... You actually believe that President Trump would intentionally cut back or reduce, if not eliminate federal funding to New Jersey-centric initiatives that impact in a positive way New Jersey citizens to get back at Mikie Sherrill?

- Yes, I think so, Steve, and we've seen that this president and his cronies live in a bubble.

And they believe that they would be helping New Jersey by arresting Ras Baraka and going and separating the families of undocumented workers.

That's their vision for how to help New Jersey.

And of course, New Jerseyans sadly rejected his version of this country and of New Jersey.

So, will he get the message?

We can only hope, Steve.

- Got a minute left.

Hey, Max, you and I to also talk about media all the time, the future of public media in the state in flux as we speak around the holidays 2025.

Why do you believe it's so important?

Regardless of who operates what has been NJ PBS, they've done a great job with our partners at WNET for years.

Last day of June, that won't be the case.

There'll be a new operator.

Whoever that is, don't know, we'll be a part of it.

Without being too self-serving, why are we not the enemy of the people, Max, and hopefully part of the solution, please.

- Steve, I believe that public television, public broadcasting has always prioritized the people.

That's why it's called public television.

That's why it's called public broadcasting.

The interests are not some private, strange engineered agenda, but the public interest, and that's why it's critical.

- Max Pizarro, every day, whether you call it public or private media, it's "Insider NJ."

We're not in the simply the mutual admiration society.

It's because I learn a lot from what Max writes every day on InsiderNJ.com.

Go on their website right now, check out what Max is doing, and it'll keep you up to date on politics, public policy, and why things matter in the state.

Hey, Max, my friend, good to see you.

We'll talk soon.

- Thank you, Steve.

Pleasure.

- All the best.

I'm Steve Adubato, that's Max Pizarro.

Check out his work.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Operating Engineers, Local 825.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

New Brunswick Development Corporation.

Holy Name.

The New Jersey Education Association.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Delta Dental of New Jersey.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

And by New Jersey Manufacturing Extension Program.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

And by NJBIA.

- I'm Tim Sullivan, CEO of the New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Since joining the NJEDA, I've been struck by the incredible assets and resources that New Jersey has to offer.

The NJEDA is working every day to grow New Jersey's economy in a way that maximizes the values of those assets to benefit every single New Jersey resident.

This includes more support for small businesses and a focus on reclaiming New Jersey's position as a leader in the innovation economy.

Visit njeda.com to learn more about how NJEDA is building a stronger and fairer New Jersey economy.