Hey guys!

Right before the pandemic struck, Julia and I made a very special episode we're excited to finally share with you.

We visited a financial therapist to discuss a challenge we've struggled with for years.

Now if we did this today, we'd probably do it outdoors with masks, and have a lot of different issues to talk about.

But we still think it's relevant to consider how your emotional history impacts your financial decision-making.

Spoiler alert: I get a little weepy.

Julia and I have worked professionally as financial advisors for many years.

Over that time, we've helped a lot of clients, expanded our knowledge base, and started a popular YouTube show.

But one thing we've never done is raise our fees.

That's right, nervous newbie Julia and Philip charged the same rates as experienced, confident Julia and Philip.

We've talked about it for a long time but it just feels so weird.

Like, I think we're worth it, but for some reason, it's really scary to pull that trigger.

So on this special episode of Two Cents, we've decided to turn the tables and get help from someone else.

Oh, and you can lose the background, we won't be needing that.

We're here at the office of Michelle Bohls, a therapist who specializes in the emotions that money can cause in people's lives.

I'll admit it, I'm a little nervous.

I mean, I'd like to think that we're pretty financially savvy, but you never know what can come up once you start digging.

Just remember, whatever happens is between you, me and the therapist.

Right.

And our hundreds of thousands of subscribers.

Good point.

Let's go inside.

Hi!

I'm Michelle!

I'm Julia.

Thank you so much for having us here today, Michelle.

We are excited and nervous.

So, what is it you actually do?

Well, so, I'm a financial therapist, specifically helping couples work with money in their relationship.

And a financial therapist is not a financial person that's gonna sit down with your bills or your budget or tell you what to do with your money.

But really looking at the belief systems that you're bringing in about the money, and why you as a couple might get stuck on particular decisions.

My dad was a CPA, my parents were both very poor.

I just naturally gravitated towards understanding money.

But then, seeing couples--and money's such a typical issue for couples.

And it can be hard to talk about, because there's this idea of being not a polite topic in lower socioeconomic circles or middle class.

But the upper class, the 1%, will talk about money quite comfortably and with their children.

And they'll educate them about money.

And so, a lot of us come out into the world without the information we need about money.

Okay, so, Michelle, what should we expect as we go into this session?

We've never been in a financial therapy session before.

Um, I can tell you I don't know what to expect, because I've never been in a therapy session with the two of you before.

So we're all kind of in it together.

Okay, we're learning as we go.

And all I can tell you is, we all get stuck.

And it's really just, do you have a few tools to get unstuck.

We're excited.

Yeah, I think we're ready.

Okay, great, well let's start then.

Money gets to the heart of our sense of safety.

It's often associated with different types of threats.

It's either threatening to make it, it's threatening to spend it or it's threatening to save it.

And there's all kinds of things that we do avoid feeling those fears that are connected to money.

So, when I think about raising our fee, I worry like we'll just be for rich people.

And I don't wanna be.

You worry that by raising our fees, we won't be able to help as many people.

Is that right?

Yes.

Just see if you can remember anything from your history where you started to get the idea that some people have money and some people don't have money, and that something is nefarious about it.

Yeah.

I think... this is kinda random why I think of this, but I remember growing up, my dad, he was a used car salesman.

He one year won a trip to Hawaii because he was such a great salesperson.

And his boss took it from him.

The owner of this big car dealership who had all the money that he could've possibly wanted, he took that vacation from my dad.

So when I think about that man, the story I make up about him is...

I think, the story that I make up about that man is that his wealth made him blind to the needs of others.

I remember how mad my mother was.

My mom was-- she wasn't mad about the loss of this trip.

She was mad about how poorly he'd been treated.

When we see that other people have money or don't have money, that also generates a lot of feelings in us.

We can feel greedy, like we need more.

We can feel deprived, like we don't have enough.

We can feel ashamed of what we have.

We can feel envy for what they have.

So really money is a very emotional topic for all of us.

When I think about raising our fees, I have a couple feelings.

One of them is... um... a feeling of being corrupt.

I mean, I'm really worried of what people will think of us.

Even talking about it, not even doing it.

Maybe, are you worried about, like, our fans and our subscribers thinking... Yeah.

And the story I make up is that they will think...

The story I make up is they will think we are... predatory and frauds.

I definitely started to feel some changes in how I was thinking about ideas of integrity and corruption.

Saying how we feel about this together with somebody else in the room, just kinda made it less intimidating, less shameful.

When I first became a financial advisor, my first job, I saw advisors who were older than me doing things and selling things that, to my mind, looked like they only helped out the advisor and didn't help out the person on the other end.

And do you now think that this is equivalent to doing that?

Mm hm.

Or could be.

Could be.

Could be.

Good.

All of our stories come from our history.

That we really can't come from anywhere but our own experiences.

I mean, we have an imagination, but when it comes to emotional things, it's usually from our memory, our memory networks.

The stories that our minds make up, we call those projections.

And when your past creates projections, that blocks connection for the couple.

When I was younger, I was really into literature, and loved to read the classics.

And in so many stories, the evil, corrupt character is the wealthy one.

It was part of the reason I decided to become an artist and study art in school.

That seemed like the exact opposite direction.

I knew I'd be poor but true to myself, if I ran away from a lucrative career.

It's a very primitive fear.

If we're all living in a village, right?

And I'm hoarding food and water while you're starving... You're gonna come kill me.

And that's really--that was the correct response.

That's how some of our ancestors got here.

So, understanding that when we have more, there is a threat level, you know, to having more when other people don't have.

But especially if we saw anyone get hurt by that dynamic as a child.

As an adult, when I look at that decision...

I have a hard time trusting myself.

I trust you.

I trust you more than I trust myself.

When I see you being decisive, I feel more confident.

What comes up for me hearing you say that?

When I hear you say that, um, it worries me.

I get a little anxious about whether I am making right decisions.

So in those moments what I might need from you...

In those moments, what I might need from you is to hear that it'll be okay if I don't make the best choice sometimes.

That if I make a mistake, that you can still trust me.

I actually did find it quite surprising that we were looking at each other, that she was not giving us advice to do this or don't do this, because that's what an advisor does.

I would say she created a safe emotional place to talk about non-safe ideas.

Working with Julia and Philip in that session, I'm noticing, okay, there's like a lot of strengths here.

They're able to listen to each other, be curious.

Whichever way they decide to go, I know that their relationship's better for having learned where some of the energy was coming from.

Yay!

Thank you!

Thank you very very much.

Thank you, Michelle.

Because of our work, Philip and I are already pretty used to discussing money issues openly with each other, but most couples struggle to get on the same financial page.

You might disagree with your partner about spending priorities, get frustrated with their tendency to save too much or not enough, or harbor resentment about different income levels.

Finance and therapy are two things that have unfortunate stigmas that might discourage people from getting the help that could alleviate their problems.

We hope that watching us go through this will make it seem a little less intimidating for you.

And that's our two cents!