(upbeat music) - [Announcer] This is a production of PBS Charlotte.

(upbeat music) This week on "Unspun Pioneers in Politics" back in the 1980s and '90s they helped shape the Charlotte we know today, we'll talk with former county commission chairman, Carla Dupuy, former mayor pro-tem Cindy Patterson, and former city council member Velva Woollen about local politics then and now, plus the top five new political barriers to citizens running for office.

In today's America, welcome to the Spin Game.

Believe me, I know, I'm Pat McCrory.

When I was governor and mayor, I played the spin game.

I was played by the spin game.

But aren't we all done being spun?

Let's take the spin out of the world we're in, here on "Unspun."

(upbeat music) Good evening, I'm Pat McCrory and welcome to "Unspun," the show that tells you what politicians are thinking, but not saying.

I won my first election as a city council member in 1989.

At the end of a decade, that many ways began the transformation of Charlotte.

In the 1980s, we elected Charlotte's first African American mayor, our first female mayor, and a new generation of city and county leaders with a new vision back then of what Charlotte could be and should be.

PBS Charlotte's, Jeff Sonier has more on a decade of decisions that turn that vision into a reality.

- Yeah, I actually started covering local Charlotte politics back in 1980 here at Old City Hall, which back then was just, you know, city hall.

The government center came later in the decade along with lots of other changes that paved the way for Charlotte Mecklenburg today.

(upbeat music) (engine roaring) In the 1980s, we expanded the airport as Charlotte quickly became a major transportation hub.

- That lobby was built in 1982, served 2.7 million passengers that year.

- [Jeff] Now CLT is one of the top 10 airports in the world with 1400 flights taking off or landing every day.

And almost 59 million passengers in 2024.

- [Announcer] He'll take it in fires to Curry, shot at the buzzer, good.

- [Jeff] In 1988 growing Charlotte also built a new coliseum and first brought major league sports to town.

Today Charlotte fans just don't have the NBA to cheer for.

(audience cheering) There's the NFL.

The PGA.

(club clanging) - [Announcer] To ice it.

- [Speaker] Oh yeah.

(audience cheering) - And Major League Soccer.

(upbeat music) Uptown Charlotte also began a major makeover in the 1980s.

That's when we broke ground here at the Blumenthal Performing Arts Center.

Alongside what became and still is, Bank of America's tallest tower.

On Charlotte's growing skyline as our hometown banks expanded during the decade to create what's now the country's number two banking city.

♪ How I hate to be late ♪ - [Reporter] That's 12 miles of traffic that is just crawling.

- And as Charlotte's '80s growth worsened traffic problems, we began work on I-485 in the '80s which brought even more growth, creating today's huge new suburban neighborhoods and business centers, including here in Valentine.

- I think we're worried about too much of good things.

Charlotte's already kind of hit that mark right?

- The city should grow.

North Carolina should grow.

I mean, it's good for the economy.

It is good for the people.

(upbeat music) (traffic buzzing) - And today, while Charlotte's one of the fastest growing cities in the country with a population of almost a million inside the city limits and nearly two and a half million in the Charlotte region with much of that future Charlotte vision from the 1980s becoming part of the actual Charlotte that we live in now, Pat.

- Wow, thanks Jeff.

Joining us now on a special edition of "Unspun" to talk about that vision they had and those decisions they made are three of Charlotte pioneers in politics.

Welcome former county commission chairman, Carla Dupuy, former mayor pro-tem Cindy Patterson, and former city council member Velva Woollen.

We're honored to have all of you together here at "Unspun" and it sort of feels like an old time reunion and didn't that video kind of bring back a lot of memories?

- Yeah, for sure.

- A lot of good memories.

I think we lived in the best of times back there because Charlotte was growing and there weren't that many women before that put themselves out there for election.

- Well, you had to make a big decision whether to run for political office in the 1980s.

What were some of the barriers or thinking that you went through to decide to run for city council?

- Oh, I didn't decide to run well back then.

No, no.

They came to me two or three times because I had chaired discovery place in the Junior league and some other things and this group came and said, we'd like for you to run.

- [Host] Who was the group?

Who were they?

- They would be John Crosland and yeah, a bunch of people.

- Bunch of people.

- A bunch of people and Spangler and a bunch of 'em.

And though they said, you won't have to raise a dime, Joe Martin was my treasurer and I said, oh gosh, I'm a biology major.

I don't know a thing about politics.

So I didn't run the first time, but then the second time.

But the barrier was running against a gentleman in Dilworth that was head of the planning commission and all that.

And I didn't know anything.

- Well, you learned an awful lot as you got experience.

- Well, I did, I learned, but I loved the job, but I never did like running, so nobody ran against me and I ran three terms and I, we were just, I was just a community steward, I would say.

Not a politician, but.

- She got really good at it though.

- She did get good at it.

She did get good.

Carla, you came to the county politics, which was quite unique and there had been a female leader before you, right?

- Yes.

- Liz Hair.

Liz Hair was a pioneer.

- That's right.

- You followed her as a kind of a pioneer Republican female.

- That's right.

That's right.

- What were some barriers that were in your way to run?

What were you thinking?

- Well, I don't know, but I like Velva, I got all these people lined up and I said no three times and finally I asked my husband and he said, sure.

You know, get you off my back or something like that.

- Who approached you and why did they approach you?

- Well, the whole people on the, on the Republican party mostly like that.

- Yeah, they were looking for new talent.

- Yeah and Crosland and, and you know, those guys, you know.

So I decided to do it and I was very busy in other things.

But when, after the election when I was the highest vote getter and back then we only had five county commissions and we were all elected at large and I was the only woman and I got more votes than anybody else.

So I was the chairman and they tried to actually talk me into not being, all the men didn't think that was a good idea.

- I remember that there.

- I remember that.

- I remember reading a newspaper.

- We were at a, on a retreat and the guys all came to me and said, you know, talk to Carla.

- Tell her she can't do it.

- She can't do that.

- She's not ready.

I remember that, she's just not ready.

She needs to sit on the bench for a while.

- That was Fountain in a bunch of those.

- Yeah, it was Fountain.

- Fountain Odom.

- Yeah, for sure.

And so, no, it was not to be.

And Carla did such a good job.

- Oh, thank you.

- She was more than ready.

- And she proved herself in that.

- Absolutely.

- And changed actually Republican politics.

At a time when there were very few Republicans in local politics at the time.

Cindy, you kind of came from another angle though.

What brought you were a community entrepreneur, very, very successful community entrepreneur.

Help us start Spring Fest, I believe.

- SpringFest, Josh Charlotte.

First night, yeah.

I had a little track record of doing when I moved here.

I couldn't believe the city had no fun things to do downtown.

You know, I'd grown up in Miami, so I had a whole different perspective.

And I moved here from Chicago, so this was really kind of fun.

And people like everybody else came to me and said, you should run for office.

And at first I thought, no.

And then I thought, I really do love politics.

I had run a couple campaigns in town for other people and worked on Harvey's campaign.

I'd worked on Eddie Knox's campaign.

So I thought, well this might be fun.

And they said they'd raise the money, which they always say, which is good.

Yeah, which is good.

- I wish I would've had people like that come to me back in those days.

- And they did raise it, you know, so it was fun.

And my thing to overcome was there were, I ran at large, there were four at large incumbents.

So everybody says it's gonna be really hard, you probably won't the first time you run.

But I got really lucky and I beat one, I came in fourth.

- You came in fourth place?

Like I came in fourth place, same way.

- No kidding.

- And I bumped somebody out, yep.

So it was you know, that was a little scary 'cause all of a sudden there I was, you know, so, but I loved it.

So turned out to be a fun thing to do for eight years.

- And then actually you became very popular and was elected.

You were the leading vote gutter at one time and became Mayor pro-tem.

- Yeah, well it was fun being out, I mean, I liked serving, I don't like Velva but running, I didn't dislike running as much as you did.

- Oh, I was bad.

So it was a good thing you were in a district.

But I won 60% of the vote against this guy, which was a good thing the women did well because I think the women were so up.

When you see this film and it says the performing arts, we were involved in that.

The Hornets who were involved in that, airport, we were involved in all of those things.

It was so fun.

- We built all of that.

- Those were all hard decisions.

The convention center, as you remember Pat, you and I think were together there.

That was a really hard one.

But you know, it's funny, at one point we were still in Old City Hall, somebody, it might have been Ron Leeper on council, said, y'all can't go to the ladies room together.

(group laughing) - [Host] And get the votes?

- Because you have the votes.

(group laughing) If we agreed to something, I'm telling you, we came out, we made it happen.

- And you were right at that time we found the new political dynamics that women were more popular with the voters then.

- Yeah, they were, they were.

- It was a changing dynamic, which has probably remained to this day in Charlotte Mecklenburg politics.

Who did you go to for advice?

Who were your mentors that you sought advice from?

Men or women?

Velva.

- Well it's kind of interesting back then.

Well, Joe Martin was my campaign.

- [Host] Joe Martin, the brother of Jim.

- Yeah of Jim Martin.

- Well, Congressman Jim Martin then became Governor Jim Martin.

- Yes and we were very, very good friends and went to church together and all.

And he was as close to me as a mentor I guess.

And then we had people that were on our, you know, when we were elected.

But Richard was good.

I had known Richard Vinroot in high school and I was, I couldn't answer The Observer questions and I couldn't do any of that stuff.

And Richard was my anchor.

all questions on where do you stand on zoning or crime?

And we'd have have to fill those out.

I had the same problem.

- Yeah, I just didn't do well.

But then one thing when Cindy got on, 'cause I was odd man out, I mean I really was odd man.

- She was the only Republican woman.

- No, I wasn't really.

They just didn't talk to me.

- That's right.

That's right, they were the neighborhood.

There were two other Annette and Anne Hammond.

- Oh boy, the turf.

Even among women at the time.

- Yeah, well they were, and that wasn't the turf difference.

It was that we looked too close to the growth community.

And they were more of the go slow build in news zoning, - [Host] Neighborhood activists, right, right.

- And so they used to accuse me of being in the pocket of developers and my answer always was, well I happen to be married to one.

So I guess that's that.

- So real quick, who were your mentors that you?

- People like Liz Hair, Betty Rash, Joe Martin as well.

And Bill Lee.

He was great.

Buddy Kemp.

- The late Buddy Kemp, the late Bill Lee.

And we've lost a lot of these people.

- Yeah, they were wonderful.

Well, speaking of Ron Leeper, I was cleaning out things the other day.

- Former city Councilman Ron Leeper who was a pioneer himself.

- Just so great.

And we had a big decision and it was Providence Road widening or we'd go another way.

And I went to Atlanta and did a little research and the shortest distance between two points was a straight line.

So I was the swing vote of course on that.

Richard Vinroot still kids, me about that.

But it was Right.

And I saw a note just the other day where Ron Leeper said, it's election year, you could have stayed on the fence and wrote me a congrats.

- This was deciding how to expand Providence Road.

- Yes.

- Think how things have changed.

- I know it, I know it.

- I remember I required sidewalks on Providence Road.

It was so controversial.

People did not want me to put sidewalks on Providence Road.

Very quick, I don't want to leave you out of a mentor role model that you sought advice from.

- Well, Bill Lee was my man.

- [Host] Bill Lee, former CEO and chairman Duke Energy Company.

- Yes and I was actually with him the day he died.

- Wow.

- Yeah, we were in Raleigh and it was.

- [Host] He was working on the economic development.

- He was indeed and it just broke my heart, 'cause he left there and flew to New York and died.

- And he was only 64 years old.

- Yeah but he split a lot into that.

- Sharon Decker and I talked the other day on the way to Raleigh.

And we realized Billy was only 64.

And now of course we're all over.

- We're all over.

- And we thought he was the oldest guy in the world at the time.

- Yeah.

- Okay, the issues of that day, what were the major issues that were concerning you about Charlotte?

Cindy, we'll start with you.

- Well, obviously transportation's always been one.

And we were trying to grow the airport, which was again, controversial between where the airport was and neighborhoods surrounding it.

But you know, John Belk had a great quote when he was mayor.

They said, why is the airport over there?

And he said, because that's where the planes land.

(group laughing) - I remember that.

- So in a way of trying to be humorous, I had.

- He was the Yogi Berra of politics.

- He was, but we worked really hard with the neighborhood to expand the airport, put in additional runways, and you can see what that's done.

- [Host] Which was very controversial.

- It was very.

- 'Cause some neighborhoods were eliminated.

- Yes.

- But the economic engine that created for Charlotte, you have to realize back then there were like 400,000 people in Charlotte.

I mean, it was boom about it made a big difference.

And we put the Coliseum, which at the time was called the New Coliseum.

It was a big debate.

Lots of people wanted it downtown.

- [Host] Including Hugh McColl.

- And including my husband Robert Patterson.

And other people wanted it on the west side.

And Ron Leeper took a real strong lead in that.

And we all said, you know what, that's the part of town that needs an economic boost.

They have the airport, which is not necessarily a good thing.

And so those were the kind of decisions that you had to work.

Vel and I worked so closely together and Richard and Stan Campbell and Dan Clodfelter, we just, we were tight and we were in different parties and it didn't matter.

- It didn't matter because my thing today is if you don't have the debate, the chance of coming out with a good decision is not there.

- It's not as good.

- So they used to say, if you and Cindy can figure out the budget, come back to us.

And so we could talk about it, but it was always 65, 56, all city back then.

- Same way when I was mayor.

- Exactly.

But we never voted that way.

- Never.

I mean, it was pretty astounding.

Getting the new convention center built was a big deal.

- Yeah, Carla, on the county side, there were some major issues that you had to walk into.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Tell us about the issues of the day there.

- Well, we were building schools.

A lot of them, we still did landfills.

- You had a major landfill issues where to put all the trash for the gross.

For some reason the county was in charge of that.

- And you know, we started curbside rollout and they made me stand in the garbage can to let people know this was gonna be a cool thing.

I was so new then, I had no idea.

I would've never done that a week later anyway, so but that was a big deal.

It was a big deal.

- In the remaining minutes we have, I want to get some, pick your brain.

If you had to have a do over on anything real quick, what would be a do over?

- I think we just started light rail sooner.

We would've just gone faster because I think it would now be very well used.

And we're still in the getting used to it stage.

- But you helped, you were on the council with Richard Vinroot and Sue Myrick where the convention center was designed for a train to go through.

And I remember going, what are y'all thinking?

And in fact, later on we found out the alignment wasn't correct.

We were like a foot off and it caused some major, but that was visionary at the time.

- Well, we were trying.

- Well also.

- So a do over, what are any do overs?

- I wouldn't have a do over particularly, but we worked so hard in housing and it was upward mobility so that people could move up and out.

So we did a lot of scattered site housing, which was not, which was pretty controversial.

- Very controversial.

- But we supported that.

And then people started moving up and out and they moved over to Piedmont Parks and different things and had jobs.

But then a few years later they changed it and said that people could have a place at the housing authority if they didn't have a husband.

Well, the family then just, so that was for me a bad, bad thing.

But by that time we were going back and forth, Clinton was in and we were going and we did welfare to work and then.

- Got a lot of funding.

- Yeah.

- Carla a do-over you and I took a lot of trips to Washington together.

I was mayor, you were chairman and kind the county commission.

Some interesting dynamics.

But any do-overs of what you had done differently, either from a personal standpoint or from a policy standpoint?

- Well, you know, the county was all about people and we had the hospitals and all of that was our thing.

And we, it was during AIDS and all of that stuff and people not wanting to touch each other.

And it was, it was just horrible what we had to deal with then.

- You weren't sure.

- What to do if I could do it.

Yeah, we didn't know - If you could do it over?

- If if I could do it over, I'd make that go away.

- It's kind of similar to COVID at the time.

We learned lessons after it was, after we learned more about it.

- Yeah, exactly.

- You know, that wasn't that long ago with the AIDS issue.

- No, I think a real big do over and we may not all agree probably velvet doesn't agree, is we waited a long time to push density, which has made our transportation issues three times as hard.

- Every time now and then a friend of mine always says to me, look at all these big houses on Providence Road, they can't even get out of their driveways.

And I say, well, in the perfect world, those would all be multifamily.

On the major thoroughfare right.

- We had.

- You know.

- We had the 25 year transit plan, which had five corridors and density along the corridors, and then preserve the single family in between.

And that was kind of the compromise.

It was between the development and the neighborhood activists.

Okay, the remaining two minutes, what advice would you give to the current political people, especially here in county and city?

What advice would you give?

- Well, my advice would be to work together.

That was my campaign slogan.

Let's work together.

I think that you become best friends because you learn from each other.

And our council did, we respected each other.

We had many good debates.

If you don't have the debate, you don't have a good outcome.

- Work together.

Cindy, what would you advise?

- I would advise council members Velva's right.

Number one.

Number two is show up.

- Wow.

- [Host] Wow.

- Show up and be about the community.

Not about what you want to do next.

Not any of that.

Show up, show up for meetings for a while.

They were Zooming in, thank God they finally made them stop, and be prepared.

- Wow.

- Yes.

- Wow.

- Yes.

- I found out I had to be prepared with y'all as a new 32-year-old council member.

- Carla, what advice would you give?

- That's the thing, it's just, it's work with the people that you have to work with.

And Jerry Blackmon was my guy and he just, he was an engineer and I was a biologist, so I didn't know all the stuff about all the buildings.

We were doing the schools and he was just real special fella for me.

- Jerry Blackmon, I miss him and I miss so many of the names you brought up.

Let me just say it to each of you.

Thank you.

- Thank you.

- What you did 20, 30, 40 years ago, it was that long, wasn't it?

- It was 40 years.

- We're seeing the positive impact today.

And I just want to say thank you as a citizen of Charlotte and Mecklenburg County and North Carolina.

- Well, thank you.

You were a great leader.

- It's an honor to have you on "Unspun."

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

(upbeat music) - Tonight on our "Unspun" countdown, today's top five new political barriers to citizens running for political office.

Let's start out with number five.

Number five, both political parties, Republicans and Democrats are shunning the moderates.

If you especially want to run in a primary and you're a moderate, you're gonna have a tough time winning.

Number four, compromise is no longer allowed, especially if you're a Republican in a red state or a red district, or a Democrat in a blue district or a blue state and you want to compromise with the opposite party, you won't be elected.

Sad commentary on today's politics.

Number three, super PACs.

Super PACs are these dark organizations that run commercials against you and you don't even know who they are.

And they can make up things about you and ruin your whole reputation.

That is very tough for current political officials.

And number two, this is kind of interesting, fewer moral guidelines.

You know, back when I first ran for office, if you had anything in your background that would cause controversy, you wouldn't be considered for political office.

Now it doesn't seem to make any difference.

And number one, social media.

When I first ran for political office, there was no social media.

And you know what?

I think I liked it better that way.

(upbeat music) This week on this program, we accomplished something simple that doesn't happen much anymore.

We sat down and had a friendly civil conversation about politics, just like the good old days.

But these days, talking politics around the dinner table or in the break room at work is often just the opposite.

Tempers flare, feelings get hurt and nobody agrees to disagree.

Instead, friends and family members choose up sides and gang up on each other like some sort of reality TV show.

The same thing happens in today's hardball political campaigns.

You know, as a former city council member, mayor, governor, and a failed senate candidate, I've been the target of that anger and emotion.

Hated and berated.

Dissed and dismissed.

And my family's felt it too.

It's just not politics anymore.

I's personal.

The barriers that first time candidates faced running for office back in the '80s are still there today, but now the rules are different because with social media, there are no rules.

Your attackers are anonymous, reputations are ruined and lies last forever on the internet.

You know, I love bringing back our leaders of the past, remembering those old political battles they fought fairly for a future they believed in, and the common sense that prevailed even among political opponents.

Thank you, Carla, Cindy, and Velva for reminding us what politics are supposed to be.

But I wonder if decades from now, if we'll still be looking back at our present politics in the same way.

Will these be the good old days we remember fondly or the bad old days that made us all realize that we have to be better than this?

Well, that's the reality as I see it.

I hope you'll come back next week as we tell you what politicians are thinking, but not saying right here on "Unspun."

Goodnight folks.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music) - [Narrator] A production of PBS Charlotte.