>> UNCERTAINTY OVER THE STATE ABORTION BAN TAKING EFFECT.

ANOTHER TRUMP INDICTMENT.

PLUS, MIKE PENCE STUMPS AT THE STATE FAIR AND MORE.

FROM THE TELEVISION STUDIOS OF WFYI, IT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING AUGUST 4, 2023.

INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE - POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

>> THIS WEEK PLANNED PARENTHOOD AND OTHER ABORTION CLINICS SAID THEY STOPPED PROVIDING BOERGSZ IN INDIANA, EVEN AS A LAST-DITCH EFFORT TO HALT THE BAN PUT THE NEW LAW ON HOLD.

>> THE ACLU ON BEHALF OF ABORTION PROVIDERS FILED A LAST-MINUTE PETITION WITH THE STATE SUPREME COURT, ASKING IT TO STOP THE ABORTION BAN FROM TAKING EFFECT WHILE FURTHER LITIGATION CONTINUES.

THE BAN CAN'T TAKE EFFECT AT LEAST UNTIL THE COURT ANSWERS THAT PETITION, WHICH COULD TAKE DAYS OR EVEN WEEKS, BUT INDIANA PLANNED PARENTHOOD CEO REBECCA RIRON SAYS HER CLINICS AREN'T WAITING TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS, NO LONGER PROVIDING ABORTION.

>> IT'S NOT NOT PATIENT-CENTERED CARE TO TRY TO HAVE PATIENTS NAVIGATE THROUGH THIS CHAOS AND TURBULENCE AT THE WHIMS OF EXTREME LAWMAKERS.

>> GIBRON SAYS PLANNED PARENTHOOD WILL REMAIN OPEN TO HOOSIERS FOR OTHER HEALTH CARE NEEDS AND TO HELP PATIENTS FIND LEGAL ABORTION RESOURCES.

>> HOW SHOULD HOOSIERS FEEL AMID THE UNCERTAINTY OF THE BAN TAKING EFFECT?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL.

DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY, REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN, JON SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, AND OSEYE BOYD, PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT EDITOR FOR THE INDIANAPOLIS STAR.

I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE BUREAU CHIEF BRANDON SMITH.

>> THESE ARE BUSINESSES, AND THEY HAVE EMPLOYEES, AND THESE EMPLOYEES HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY'RE EVEN GOING TO REMAIN IN INDIANA.

I MEAN, IT ISN'T A QUESTION OF WHETHER THERE'S GOING TO BE A BAN.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A BAN, AND THEY NEED TO MAKE PLANS FOR THEMSELVES TO GO TO STATES WHERE THEY'RE INTERESTED IN PROTECTING TH HEALTH OF WOMEN.

INDIANA IS NOT AMONG THEM ANYMORE.

IF YOU WERE A LAWYER, YOU WOULD ADVISE THEM TO TAKE STEPS TO CLOSE DOWN BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A ROGUE ATTORNEY GENERAL OUT THERE, AND UNLESS THE LAWYERS, UNINDICTED COCONSPORTOR CRACKPOT LAWYER -- >> THAT'S WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT TRUMP'S LAWYER.

>> YOU'RE GETTING AHEAD OF YOURSELF.

>> THAT'S THE KIND OF ADVICE A COMPETENT LAWYER WOULD GIVE THEM WOULD SAY, LOOK, YOU HAVE YOUR LIVES, YOU HAVE YOUR HOMES, YOU HAVE TO HAVE EMPLOYMENT.

YOU NEED TO MAKE PLANS, AND YOU NEED TO GO AHEAD AND GO TO A STATE THAT'S INTERESTED IN PROTECTING THE LIVES OF WOMEN, AND INDIANA IS NOT THAT STATE ANY LONGER.

>> IS IT FAIR TO BE A LITTLE ANNOYED AT EVERY SIDE JUST AMID THE LEGAL -- THE QUESTION ABOUT THE LEGAL UNCERTAINTY, WHICH IS THE ACLU WAITED UNTIL LITERALLY ALMOST THE LAST MINUTE TO FILE THIS PETITION FOR A HEARING.

THE AG'S OFFICE, TO BE FAIR, FILED THEIR REPLY PRETTY QUICKLY TO GET THE BALL ROLLING FOR THE SUPREME COURT, BUT NOW THE SUPREME COURT, AS WE TAPE THIS, THE SUPREME COURT HASN'T ANSWERED THE PETITION FOR REHEARING.

ONCE THEY DO, IF THEY DENY IT, THEN THE LAW CAN GO INTO EFFECT WITHIN THE NEXT FEW DAYS AFTER THAT, BUT TECHNICALLY THEY COULD GRANT IT.

THEY COULD GRANT THIS PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION.

THE ACLU IS ASKING FOR IT, AND THAT WOULD STALL EVEN FURTHER THE LAW FROM TAKING EFFECT.

ARE WE -- IS IT FAIR TO BE A LITTLE ANNOYED AT HOW CHAOTIC THIS IS?

>> SURE.

YOU WANT THE COURT TO BE FAST, OR DO YOU WANT IT TO BE RIGHT?

PART OF THE -- >> WE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE RIGHT, BUT THAT'S NOT AN OPTION.

>> PART OF THE CONSIDERATION HERE TOO -- WELL, AND THEY EXERCISED ALL THE OPINGS THEY COULD.

THE TIMING OF WHICH, I MEAN, OF COURSE THERE'S POLITICS AROUND THIS.

OF COURSE, THERE'S GREATER ATTENTION AROUND CERTAIN TIMES AROUND THIS.

THE ACLU CLEARLY COORDINATED THAT EFFORT, BUT THEY'RE ALSO RUNNING OUT OF OPTIONS, RIGHT?

THERE IS GOING TO BE AN ABORTION BAN IN INDIANA, WHETHER IT'S LESS LIMITED THAN THIS ONE, BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME KIND OF ABORTION BAN.

WHETHER IT'S COMPLETELY THROWN OUT, AND THE LEGISLATURE COMES BACK, THESE AREN'T CLOSE VOTES IN THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>> NOT WITH THE SUPER MAJORITY IN PLACE.

>> I THINK THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY CAN, BUT ANN IS RIGHT.

THERE'S GOING TO BE AN ABORTION BAN IN INDIANA.

>> FOR 40 YEARS, NEARLY 50 YEARS WE SAW A NATIONAL GUARANTEE, CONSTITUTIONAL GUARANTEE OF ABORTION RIGHTS FROM THE SUPREME COURT, AND OVER THAT 40-PLUS YEARS WE SAW LAWSUIT AFTER LAWSUIT AFTER LAWSUIT FROM MULTIPLE STATES TRYING TO CHIP AWAY AT EXACTLY HOW FAR THOSE GUARANTEES WENT.

OBVIOUSLY CULMINATING WITH THE OVERTURNING OF ROE V. WADE.

ARE WE FACING A SITUATION IN INDIANA BECAUSE THE INDIANA SUPREME COURT ACKNOWLEDGED THAT AT LEAST SOME ABORTION RIGHTS ARE GUARANTEED BY THE STATE CONSTITUTION, EVEN IF PERHAPS RELATIVELY LIMITED, ARE WE LOOKING AT LAWSUIT AFTER LAWSUIT AFTER LAWSUIT IN THE MONTHS AND YEARS TO COME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS?

>> THAT MAY BE THE ONE GIVEN IN THIS WHOLE CLOUDY SCENARIO.

THE NOTION OF CHAOS AND CONFUSION CLOUDING THIS ISSUE HAS BASICALLY BEEN THE STATE OF AFFAIRS EVER SINCE THE CAN DECISION CAME DOWN.

WE HAD CONFUSION OVER WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD AND COULDN'T DO IN TERMS OF ENSURING THAT THERE WOULD BE MAIL ORDER DELIVERY OF MEDICATIONS, ABORTION MEDICATIONS, AND THEN THERE WERE STATES SAYING, WAIT, YOU CAN'T DO THAT EVEN THOUGH IT'S A FEDERAL AGENCY AND INTERSTATE COMMERCE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

THEN YOU HAVE CONFUSION ON THE PART OF HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS ABOUT WHAT CONSTITUTES THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER.

IS THAT MENTAL?

IS IT PHYSICAL?

HOW DIRE DOES THE SITUATION HAVE TO BE BEFORE WE CAN ACTUALLY RENDER CARE?

CONFUSION IS THE NAME OF THE GAME HERE AND CHAOS FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE IS THE NAME OF THE GAME, AND I DON'T SEE THAT CHANGING ANY TIME SOON.

EITHER AT THE STATE OR FEDERAL LEVEL BECAUSE WE'LL SEE MORE STATES GO TO PUT THIS ISSUE TO VOTERS, WHETHER THEY WANT TO OR NOT.

VOTERS IN MANY BALLOT INITIATIVE STATES HAVE TAKEN IT UPON THEMSELVES TO SAY WE WANT THIS ON THE BALLOT.

THAT WILL CHANGE THE DYNAMIC.

WHO IS TO SAY THAT -- THERE ARE SO MANY PIECES AND PARTS HERE MOVING I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF WE EVER HAD A CONVERSATION AROUND THIS TABLE THAT SAID, WOW, THAT'S SETTLED.

WE'RE DONE WITH THIS ONE.

>> IF THERE IS ONE BIT OF CLARITY BEYOND, THERE SEEMS LIKE MORE LAWSUITS TO COME.

THERE'S ALREADY RELIGIOUS FREEDOM RESTORATION LAWSUIT THAT'S ONGOING, BUT IT WON'T BE RESOLVED FOR MONTHS OR A YEAR.

IF THERE IS ONE CLEAR THING, IT'S THAT HOOSIER WOMEN AND PREGNANT PEOPLE ARE LEFT IN THE MIDDLE WITH NOT A LOT OF OPTIONS; IS THAT RIGHT?

>> YES, AND CONFUSED ON WHAT'S GOING ON.

I DON'T THINK -- I WOULD ASSUME A LOT OF THESE REGULAR WOMEN, EVERYDAY WOMEN, HAVE NO CLUE WHAT TO DO NOW, WHAT TO DO, WHERE TO GO, WHERE CAN I GET HELP?

I'M ASSUMING DOCTOR ARE CONFUSED.

YOU TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH.

CHAOS IS THE NAME OF THE GAME.

I THINK WE'VE JUST CREATED A SITUATION WHERE EVERYBODY IS JUST KIND OF LIKE WHAT DO I DO, WHERE DO I GO?

PLANNED PARENTHOOD DOES MUCH MORE THAN ABORTION CARE, SO OUR PEOPLE -- IS PLANNED PARENTHOOD OPEN?

THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO START SAYING.

IS PLANNED PARENTHOOD OPEN AT ALL?

I THINK EVERYONE IS RIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE LAWSUIT AFTER LAWSUIT FOREVER.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE EVER, EVER, EVER GOING TO BE DONE WITH ABORTION.

>> IF YOU WANTED TO DO A COMPROMISE, THOUGH, BETWEEN THE PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT ABORTION SHOULD BE COMPLETELY ILLEGAL AND THE PEOPLE WHO THINK IT SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY LEGAL, YOU COULD PASS A LAW THAT SAID ANYTHING AFTER 20 WEEKS, ABORTION UP TO 20 WEEKS.

>> THAT'S WHAT INDIANA HAD.

>> THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD, BUT THIS STUFF ABOUT FOUR WEEKS OR TEN WEEKS.

>> YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW.

>> YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU'RE PREGNANT.

>> KYLE WALKER HAD A 15-WEEK PROPOSAL.

>> DID IT GET HEARD?

>> NO.

>> WELL -- >> THE AMENDMENT GOT HEARD.

>> THE CHAOS DOES BRING CLARITY IN ONE SENSE, AND THAT IS WOMEN TO THIS POINT HAVE BEEN CONFUSED IN THAT, GEE, I THOUGHT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ENACTED A BAN, BUT I SEE THESE PLACES ARE STILL OPEN.

THEY MAY NOT BE FOLLOWING EVERY TWIST AND TURN OF THE LEGAL PROCESS.

TO THEM THEY'RE SAYING, WELL, THAT WASN'T SO BAD.

YEAH, THEY HAD A SPECIAL SESSION, AND WE WERE THE FIRST IN THE NATION WITH A BAN, BUT LIFE GOES ON.

EVERYTHING SEEMS NORMAL.

>> JUST WAIT.

>> MY POINT IS NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME HOOSIER WOMEN WILL SEE THE EFFORTS OF A LAW THAT WAS ENACTED BEFORE.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THEY WILL HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN THE BYPRODUCT.

>> FEEL IT.

>> AND FEEL IT.

>> WE'RE GOING BACK TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE, WHICH IS A CLASS ISSUE.

WOMEN IN INDIANA ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ACCESS TO ABORTION.

POOR WOMEN IN INI UNDERSTAND ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ACCESS TO ABORTION.

THAT'S WHAT WE NEVER TRIED TO FIGURE OUT.

>> THERE IS ABSOLUTELY THAT PART OF IT, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE WOMEN WHO ARE IN CRISIS, WHETHER THEY'RE CARRYING TWINS AND ONE OF THEM IS DEAD OR YOU HAVE AN ATOPIC PREGNANCY, AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE FORCED TO GO SOMEPLACE ELSE BECAUSE INDIANA WON'T BE ABLE TO CARE FOR THEM.

>> THAT'S THE THING NO ONE HAS REALLY DISCUSSED WELL IS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT DOCTORS CANNOT THINK OF EVERY FEASIBLE SITUATION THAT COULD OCCUR.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> WHEN YOU ARE PREGNANT.

PREGNANCY IS RISKY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> EVEN THE HEALTHYIEST PREGNANCY IS RISKY, AND ALL KIND OF THINGS CAN HAPPEN.

>> EVEN DOCTORS CAN'T THINK OF EVERY SINGLE THING.

>> THAT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE WHAT A LOT OF THE LITIGATION SETTLES ON, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT DO WE MEAN WHEN WE SAY SERIOUS HEALTH RISK AND LIFE AND ALL THAT?

>> YEAH.

YOU CAN BE SURE THAT ROKITA WILL RIDE IN ON THAT WHITE HORSE OF HIS AND SAY EVERY SINGLE TIME IT WASN'T ENDANGERING THE WOMAN'S LIFE OR HEALTH.

>> FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WAS INDICTED THIS WEEK FOR A THIRD TIME.

THIS TIME ON FOUR COUNTS RELATED TO EFFORTS TO OVERTURN THE RESULTS OF THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

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TRUMP WAS CHARGED WITH CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES, WITNESS TAMPERING, CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE RIGHTS OF CITIZENS, AND OBSTRUCTION OF AND ATTEMPT TO OBSTRUCT AN OFFICIAL PROCEEDING.

SOME OF THE LATEST CHARGES RELATE TO THE PRESSURE TRUMP ALLEGEDLY PUT ON HIS VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE, WANTING PENCE TO REFUSE TO COUNT CERTAIN ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES.

PENCE, RESPONDING WEDNESDAY TO THE LATEST INDICTMENT, SAID HE HAD NO AUTHORITY TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION RESULTS.

HE SAYS TRUMP ASKED HIM TO MAKE AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL DECISION ON JANUARY 6, AND HE REFUSED.

>> ON THAT DAY PRESIDENT TRUMP ASKED ME TO PUT HIM OVER THE CONSTITUTION, BUT I CHOSE THE CONSTITUTION, AND I ALWAYS WILL.

>> TRUMP REMAINS THE CLEAR FRONTRUNNER FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, THIS FEELS CRAZY TO ASK, BUT DOES THE INDICTMENT OF A FORMER PRESIDENT ON CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES JUST NOT MATTER MUCH POLITICALLY AT THIS POINT?

>> IT HASN'T SO FAR.

IT HAS TO HIS BENEFIT.

NIXON IS ROLLING OVER IN HIS GRAVE, BY THE WAY.

>> CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING.

IF THAT HAPPENS TODAY, NIXON IS NOT RESIGNING.

THERE WAS A NEW POLL OUT YESTERDAY.

REUTERS DID A POLL ON REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS.

IF HE WAS CONVICTED, IT SEEMED TO BE A TURNING POINT FOR SOME.

28% STILL SAID I'M VOTING FOR HIM NO MATTER WHAT.

THEY THINK THIS IS ALL POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, AND HE DIDN'T DO ANY OF THIS STUFF.

51% SAID NO, THEY WOULD VOTE FOR SOMEBODY ELSE.

THE PROBLEM WITH SOMEBODY ELSE IS YOU'RE SCATTERING 51% OF THE VOTE ACROSS TEN DIFFERENT PEOPLE, SO YOU CAN EASILY WIN A PRIMARY WITH 28% OF THE VOTE IN THAT CONTEXT IF THEY DON'T START CONSOLIDATING THAT FIELD AND DOING IT WELL IN ADVANCE OF IOWA AND THOSE EARLY PRIMARY STATES.

>> I'LL ASK A VERSION OF THE SAME QUESTION I JUST ASKED HIM, WHICH IS AT THIS POINT DO THESE INDICTMENTS MATTER TO DONALD TRUMP IN A NEGATIVE WAY?

>> OH, I THINK AMONG GENERAL ELECTION VOTERS.

OBVIOUSLY NOT SO MUCH AMONG REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS WHO DON'T CARE -- >> IT STILL LOOKS TIGHT BECAUSE BIDEN IS SO -- >> THAT'S EARLY.

THAT'S EARLY.

WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, TRUMP SEPTEMBER A LOT YOUNGER, AND HE HAS BEEN ROAD A LOT HARDER.

THE ISSUE HERE, IT SEEMS TO ME, IS NOT JUST -- THE THING THAT FRUSTRATES ME ABOUT MIKE PENCE IN THIS IS HE DID THE RIGHT THING.

IF HE WANTED TO BE IT A PROFILE IN COURAGE HE SHOULD HAVE STOOD UP AND SAID I DID THE RIGHT THING, NOT JUST BECAUSE IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL, BUT BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING, AND WHAT DONALD TRUMP WANTED ME TO DO TO STEAL THE ELECTIO FROM JOE BIDEN, WHICH IS WHAT HE WANTED HIM TO DO, WAS WRONG.

IT SUBVERTS DEMOCRACY.

THIS IS A DEMOCRACY, AND THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN, AND HE EXHAUSTED ALL OF HIS LEGAL CHALLENGES.

WAS IT 50 OR 52 OF THEM?

HE LOST EVERY SINGLE ONE.

HE STILL TRIED TO SUBVERT THE ELECTION, STEAL IT FROM JOE BIDEN, AND IF MIKE PENCE HAD STOOD UP THEN AND SAID THAT, HE WOULD BE THE SAME KIND OF PROFILE IN COURAGE THAT LIZ CHENEY IS.

PROBABLY WOULD HAVE COST HIM THE NOMINATION, BUT THREADING THIS NEEGDZ THE WAY HE IS TRYING TO DO SAYING, OH, I DID WHAT WAS RIGHT.

OKAY, HE TRIED TO GET ME TO DO SOMETHING ELSE, BUT I COULDN'T DO IT BECAUSE THE CONSTITUTION DIDN'T ALLOW IT, BUT HE IS A GOOD GUY, WHICH IS WHAT HE HAS BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS IS CRAZY.

>> HE IS JUSTING -- >> I WILL SAY THIS, THIS WEEK FELT LIKE FOR MIKE PENCE AT LEAST A SHIFT IN TONE WHEN IT COMES TO THE STUFF WITH DONALD TRUMP.

>> NO QUESTION.

>> HE HAS BEEN MUCH MORE -- I AGREE.

UP UNTIL NOW HE HAD BEEN DESTROYING TO WALK THAT LINE A LITTLE BIT MORE SAYING WHAT I DID WAS RIGHT, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO THROW DONALD TRUMP UNDER THE BUS COMPLETELY.

>> YOUR NOTES WILL BE ON A GIANT POSTER BOARD IN A FEDERAL COURTROOM.

THE TRUTH IS COMING OUT.

>> IF HE HAD TOLD THE TRUTH BACK THEN, YOU PROBABLY STILL WOULDN'T HAVE A MAJORITY OF THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS BELIEVING THAT LIAR.

>> LET ME ASK -- THAT'S THE QUESTION I'M GOING TO ASK YOU.

DO YOU THINK IF MIKE PENCE HAD TAKEN THE TONE HE WAS TAKING THIS WEEK A LOT SOONER, WOULD THAT HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE TO THE AVERAGE REPUBLICAN VOTER >> I DON'T KNOW, BUT I THINK IT.

I think it TURNED THE TIDE FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS MORE SERIOUS THAN WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS.

HE HAS BEEN PRETTY WISHY-WASHY THIS WHOLE TIME WITH WANT WANTING TO ROCK THE BOAT.

IT LOOKS TO ME AS IF HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO RUN, AND HE DIDN'T WANT TO HURT HIS CHANCES UNTIL NOW HE IS OUT THERE AND HE THINKS NOW I HAVE TO BE FORCEFUL BECAUSE NOW IS HE TALKING REAL STRONG.

BEFORE HE WAS TALKING A LITTLE PASSIVE, A LITTLE QUIETLY.

THEN, LIKE YOU SAID, STAND ON THE CONSTITUTION.

WHY NOT JUST STAND ON, YES, THAT, BUT ALSO IT WASN'T THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE COUNTRY.

HE IS NOT SAYING -- HE DIDN'T SAY ANY OF THAT STUFF.

>> IS THIS ALSO PERHAPS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF MIKE PENCE THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO WIN OVER TRUMP VOTERS?

THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN SAY OR DO THAT'S GOING TO WIN OVER THOSE HARD-CORE TRUMP VOTERS IF THEY DON'T VOTE FOR TRUMP SO MAYBE I HAVE TO FIND A NEW PATH?

>> YEAH.

THE TWO LITTLE FIGURES, IF YOU THINK OF THIS IN A CARTOON WAY, WHISPERING INTO HIS LEFT AND RIGHT EAR, ONE WOULD BE THE GOOD CITIZEN AND THE GOOD STEWARD AND LOOD GOOD LEADER FOLLOWING THE CONSTITTION.

THE OTHER IS THE COLD CALCULUS OF POLITICS.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO HANG MIKE PENCE.

WERE THE CHANT?

>> QUITE LITERALLY.

>> THEY BELIEVE THE GALLOS AND EVERYTHING.

HE WAS NOT GOING TO WIN THEM OVER.

THEY SAW HIM AS A TRAITOR AND DEFECTOR.

THAT WAS NOT GOING TO BE A PATH, THE LANE, IF YOU WILL, THAT PUNDITS LIKE TO TALK ABOUT.

THERE WAS NO LANE THERE.

AT LEAST THIS IS A LIEN.

NOW, THERE ARE OWE PEOPLE IN THAT LANE WITH CHRIS CHRISTY AND HUTCHINSON AND HERD AND A FEW OTHERS.

AT LEAST HE DOES HAVE SOME MORAL AUTHORITY IF HE CHOOSES TO USE IT, WHICH APPARENTLY HE IS DOING THIS WEEK.

>> DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT.

>> THE POINT OF YOUR INITIAL QUESTION, THE REUTERS POLL WAS INTERESTING.

CNN ALSO HAD AN INTERESTING POLL THIS WEEK, AND I THOUGHT THE MOST INTERESTING COMPONENT IS THEY LOOKED AT TRUMP SELF-STYLED, DEDICATED TRUMP VOTERS, AND THEY WANTED TO SEE WHAT THE LEVEL WAS OF SORT OF TOLERANCE.

EVERYBODY HAS BLEMISHES.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE GLEM E BLEMISHES THAT YOU CAN TOLERATE AND NOT?

BASICALLY THEY SAID THIS MAN HAS NO BLEMISHES, NO FLAWS.

HE IS PERFECTION.

>> WHO?

TRUMP?

>> TRUMP VOTERS.

THAT TELLS ME THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF A CULT.

IF YOUR LEADER -- I DON'T THINK WE CAN FIND ANY POLITICIAN THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE PROVERBIAL FEET OF CLAY AND SHORTCOMINGS.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK HARD FOR TRUMP.

>> TO SAY HE HAS NO BLEMISHES AND HE IS SOMEHOW SUPER HUMAN, THAT KIND OF EXPLAINS A LOT RIGHT THERE.

>> CAN I JUST SAY QUICKLY, MIKE PENCE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IF PEOPLE WANTED TO HANG HIM, THEY WERE NEVER GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM.

>> SO HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN -- >> THEY WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT THE HANGING CHAD.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT HANGING.

>> EACH WEEK WE POSE AN UNSCIENTIFIC ONLINE POLL QUESTION, AND THIS WEEK'S QUESTION IS DOES ANOTHER INDICTMENT OF DONALD TRUMP MAKE HIM MORE OR LESS LIKELY TO BECOME THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT?

A, MORE LIKELY?

B, LESS LIKELY?

C, NO CHANGE.

LAST WOKE'S QUESTION, WE ASKED WILL THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY EVER REPEAL THE LAW ALLOWING PERMITLESS CARRY OFFEN HANDGUNS?

32% OF YOU SAY YES.

63% SAY NO.

GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL TO TAKE PART.

LET'S STAY ON THE TOPIC OF FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE MIKE PENCE.

HE LAID OUT HIS PLAN TO TACKLE INFLATION DURING A VISIT TO THE STATE FAIR.

INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING'S VIOLET COMBER-WILEN REPORTS PENCE SAYS HE WANTS TO MAKE LOWERING PRICES A MAIN PRIORITY IN HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.

>> PENCE SAYS THE BIDE BYEDEN ADMINISTRATION SPENDING IS THE MAIN CONTRIBUTOR TO INFLATION IN RECENT YEARS.

HE SAYS HE IS THE FIRST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TO LAY OUT A PLAN TO TACKLE THE PROBLEM.

PENCE SAYS HE PLANS TO END INFLATION AS PRESIDENT UNDER A FOUR-STEP PLAN.

>> SO THOSE ARE THE FOUR POLICIES CLOB:FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, REFORM THE FED, AND BRING JOBS BACK TO AMERICA TO LOWER THE COST OF THE SUPPLY CHAIN, AND UNLEASH AMERICAN ENERGY.

>> IP FLA IING HAS CONTINUED TO EASE FOR MONTHS, BUT PENCE SAYS HE HAS SEEN CURRENT GOVERNMENT PENDING HABITS HURT AMERICAN FAMILIES.

HE SAYS INCREASED GROCERY AND GAS PRICES ARE MASHLG CONTRIBUTORS TO PEOPLE'S FINANCIAL BURDEN.

>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE MESSAGE THAT PENCE IS SPREADING HERE, JON, I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE POLITICS.

DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO YOU FOR PENCE TO BE SPENDING TIME LIKE THIS IN INDIANA?

>> WE NOTED A MOMENT AGO THAT WE SAW A CHANGE IN TONE WITH THE CAMPAIGN THIS WEEK.

MAYBE A HARSHER TONE, A MORE UP FRONT, LET'S TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORNS KIND OF TONE.

MAYBE PART OF THAT IS A RETURN TO ONE'S ROOTS.

WHETHER HE PICK YOUR MOVIE TITLE FINDING HIS GROOVE OR GETTING HIS MOJO BACK OR WHATEVER PHRASE YOU WANT TO USE, WHAT BETTER WAY TO DO IT -- >> SPEAKING OF POP CULTURE REFERENCES.

>> I USED A 23-YEAR-OLD ONE AND NOW I'M USING OTHERS THAT ARE ALMOST THAT OLD.

ONE WAY TO DO IT IS TO GO BACK TO YOUR HOME TURF AND FLEX YOUR MUSCLE AND GET PEOPLE WHO LIKE YOU AND SUPPORT YOU AND REMEMBER YOU FONDLY, PRESUMABLY, AND -- YOU DIDN'T GO TO THE FAIR?

>> DIDN'T MAKE IT, NO.

>> AND USE THAT AS MAYBE A SPRINGBOARD.

>> THE HOME CROWD ADVANTAGE.

>> THE HOME CROWD ADVANTAGE.

YOU CAN'T SPEND ALL YOUR TIME IN YOUR HOME STATE, BUT IF THIS IS SOMEHOW IN YOUR SECRET GUIDEBOOK OF THEIR CAMPAIGN CIRCLE THAT'S SORT OF THE WEEK OF MILESTONE WEEK WHEN THINGS STARPTD TO CHANGE, I COULD SEE GOING BACK TO YOUR HOME TURF.

>> WE KNOW HE IS STILL TRYING TO MAKE THE REPUBLICAN DEBATE STAGE.

WE TALKED ABOUT THAT ON THE SHOW A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, I THINK.

HE NEEDS -- RIGHT NOW WHAT HE NEEDS IS DONATIONS.

HE IS FINE IN THE POLLS.

HE NEEDS DONATIONS.

HE IS COMING BACK TO INDIANA AND GOING BACK IT OLD FRIENDS, DOES THAT HELP THAT CAUSE?

>> I THINK SO.

I THINK SO.

THIS IS HOME.

THE HOME COURT ADVANTAGE AGAIN.

WHY WOULDN'T YOU COME HOME TO WHERE YOUR FRIENDS ARE AND TRY TO GET SOME MONEY?

IT JUST MAKES SENSE.

THEN THAT WAY YOU HAVE THIS BASE, AND YOU CAN SHOW PEOPLE IN OTHER STATES, LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY I HAVE, LOOK HOW PEOPLE SUPPORT ME.

THEY THINK I HAVE A CHANCE HERE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE MESSAGE THEN.

HE'S RIGHT IN THAT HE'S THE ONLY AM REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE RIGHT NOW WITH A MORE DETAILED PLAN TO TRY AND LOWER INFLATION, ALTHOUGH INFLATION IS COMING DOWN.

LET ME ASK FROM A STRATEGIC STANDPOINT, IF HE WANTS TO BE THE NOMINEE, BY THE TIME YOU ARE RUNNING AGAINST JOE BIDEN, AGAINST WHOM THIS MESSAGE WOULD PRESUMABLY WORK THE BEST, IS THIS STILL GOING TO BE AN EFFECTIVE MESSAGE A YEAR FROM NOW?

>> NO, BECAUSE INFLATION IS GOING TO BE DOWN.

UNEMPLOYMENT IS AT A RECORD LOW.

HE IS ALREADY FIXING THE SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES.

HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT OR GRIPE ABOUT.

HE IS ESSENTIAL NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY IN THE CONTEXT OF REPEALING SOME OF THE RIDICULOUS TAX BREAKS THAT TRUMP'S GROUP PASSED.

I DON'T KNOW HOW HE IS GOING TO GET THE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY PART OF THIS EQUATION.

IT MAKES SENSE FOR HIM TO COME BACK TO RAISE MONEY FROM THE INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTIONS SO HE QUALIFIES.

IT ALSO MAKES SENSE FOR HIM TO TEST OUT HIS MESSAGE, WHICH IS WHAT THIS IS, IN FRONT OF A GROUP THAT ISN'T GOING TO BOO HIM, WHICH IS WHAT'S HAPPENED TO HIM IN A NUMBER OF OTHER PLACES.

>> DOES THIS MESSAGE WORK RIGHT NOW?

DOES IT WORK SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, A YEAR FROM NOW?

>> IT DOESN'T HAVE TO WORK A YEAR FROM NOW.

IT CAN WORK RIGHT NOW, AND IT DOES WORK RIGHT NOW.

BUT ALL THE FACTORS ARE GOING AGAINST INFLATION.

INFLATION IS DOWN TO 2%.

THE FED RAISED RATES AGAIN.

PRESUMABLY BY THE FIRST QUARTER NEXT YEAR, WE'LL BE BACK TO EVEN WITH WAGE GROWTH, BUT THERE IS A MESSAGE IN APPROXIMATE HOW WE GOT TO INFLATION.

BY FLOODING THE ECONOMY WITH GOVERNMENT MONEY DURING COVID FOR A VERY ILL-DEFINED PURPOSE THAT WE PUT THE MONEY IN PEOPLE'S POCKETS THAT PROBABLY DIDN'T NEED IT BECAUSE THEY PUT IT RIGHT BACK INTO THE CONSUMER ECONOMY, WHICH IS WHAT DROVE PRICES UP TO BEGIN WITH.

>> OR SHORTAGE OF GOODS CAUSED BY THE SUPPLY CHAIN.

>> FOOD AND GAS ARE NOT EXACTLY THROWING MONEY AWAY IF YOU NEED IT FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

>> FORT WAYNE BUSINESSMAN ERIC DODEN IS THE FIRST CANDIDATE UP WITH A TELEVISION AD IN THE CONTENTIOUS AND EXPENSIVE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR.

>> DODEN'S AD IS AN INTRODUCTION.

HE IS A PRO-LIFE CHAMPION AND JOB CREATOR.

>> ERIC IS DEVET TO GIVING HOOSIERS AN EVEN BETTER WAY OF LIFE.

>> DODEN'S CAMPAIGN SAID THIS FIRST SPOT IS THE LAURJ OF A $2 MILLION DIGITAL AD BUY THIS FALL.

DODEN'S OPEN INDEPENDENTS IN THE RACE INCLUDE U.S.

SENATOR MIKE BRAUN, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR SUZANNE CROUCH, AND FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL CURTIS HILL.

>> OF ALL THE MAIN CANDIDATES IN THIS RACE, DID DODEN NEED TO GO UP ON TV FIRST MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE?

>> YEAH.

I HAD TO GO BACK TO REMEMBER WHO THIS GUY WAS.

I'M, LIKE, DODEN?

ERIC DODEN?

I DIDN'T RECALL -- >> HIS TIME LEADING THE -- >> I DIDN'T RECALL.

>> IT WAS UNEVENTFUL.

THAT'S WHY.

>> I DIDN'T RECALL THE ANNOUNCEMENT.

I HAD TO GO BACK AND FIND OUT -- >> HE HAS BEEN RUNNING FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

I WAS, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW THIS PERSON.

HE HAS NO NAME RECOGNITION.

I DON'T THINK I'M THE ONLY PERSON WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHO HE IS.

SO HE DEFINITELY NEEDS TO GET HIS NAME OUT THERE.

HE IS GOING UP AGAINST PEOPLE GOOD OR BAD.

WE KNOW THEIR NAME.

>> I WAS SAYING BEFORE WE CAME OUT OF THE VIDEO PACKAGE THERE THAT THIS FELT LIKE A PAINT BY NUMBERS BE INTRODUCTORY TV AD FOR A CANDIDATE, BUT IS THAT EXACTLY WHAT HE NEEDED AT THIS POINT?

>> PROBABLY.

IT'S TEXT BOBBING IN MANY WAYS.

YOU COULD ALMOST PRESCRIBE THE SHOTS.

LET'S HAVE A SKYLINE SHOT.

LET'S HAVE A SLOW MOTION.

>> SLEETSLET'S HAVE THE WIFE HOLDING HANDS.

>> YOU COULD SAY IT WAS AT SOME POINT PRESUMABLY THIS WILL GET UGLY, AND THERE WILL BE CALL IT NEGLECT HADTIVE, CALL IT COMPARATIVE CAMPAIGNING, MORE ISSUE-BASED.

THAT'S WHAT MOVES THE NUMBERS TRADITIONALLY.

AT THIS POINT IF YOU ARE STILL AN UNKNOWN COMMODITY WITH A GOOD PORTION OF THE HOOSIER ELECTORATE, YOU CAPITAL REALLY START GOING AFTER PEOPLE WITHOUT PEOPLE KNOWING WHO YOU ARE.

THIS IS POLITICS 101, POLITICS FOR DUMMIES EVEN.

NOT THAT HE IS A DUMMY, BUT I'M PLUGGING THE BOOK WHENEVER I CAN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YOU DO A SPOT -- A BIOGRAPHICAL SPOT THAT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A TRUE BLUE ALL AMERICAN APPLE PIE KIND OF GUY.

>> ERIC DODEN HAS BEEN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR FOR A WHILE NOW.

HE HAS BEEN DOING THE GRASSROOTS WORK UP TO NOW.

GETTING OUT, GOING TO THESE LOCAL REPUBLICAN EVENTS, TRYING TO BUILD UP THE EXACT PEOPLE YOU NEED TO VOTE FOR YOU IN THE PRIMARY AT LEAST.

$2 MILLION AD BUY INTO THE FALL THAT THIS IS THE START OF, IS THAT A GOOD USE OF HIS MONEY AT THIS STAGE?

>> OH, YEAH.

IT'S LIMITLESS, WHICH IS IT IS FOR, LIKE, THREE OF THESE GUYS.

I'VE HAD A RADICAL IDEA ON THE APPROACH TO EITHER HIM OR BRAD CHAMBERS, AND ONLY THOSE TWO GUYS CAN USE IT, AND YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THEM.

IT'S HARD TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE, RIGHT?

THEY CAN'T ALL BE PRO-LIFE OR ALL BE PRO-GUN.

>> THEY ARE.

>> EXCEPT BRAD CHAMBERS.

OR ERIC DODEN.

I THINK THESE ARE PRETTY MODERATE GUYS.

IN A FIVE-WAY PRIMARY THE RIGHT STRATEGY MIGHT BE TO OWN THAT BASE.

>> RUN THE -- WIN THE AIR.

>> I'M NOT FOR ABORTION BAN OR ANY OF THIS STUFF.

I'LL YOUR MITCH DANIELS GUY, BEING AND YOU PULL 25% OF THE VOTE FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD ENOUGH.

>> THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY, REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN, JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, AND OSEYE BOYD OF THE INDYSTAR.

YOU CAN FIND INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW'S PODCAST AND EPISODES AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR ON THE PBS APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

♪ >> THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA'S PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

♪