>> CATHY: THE U.S. HOUSE HAS APPROVED AN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY INTO PRESIDENT BIDEN.

THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WILL HEAR TWO BIG CASES COMING UP, ONE THAT COULD UNDO RIOT CHARGES RELATING TO JANUARY 6TH AND ONE THAT COULD FURTHER RESTRICT ABORTION ACCESS NATIONWIDE.

AND MINNESOTA CONGRESSMAN DEAN PHILLIPS HAS ANNOUNCED THAT HE WILL CONTINUE HIS PRESIDENTIAL RUN THROUGH THE SUMMER.

WE'VE GOT A LOT TO TACKLE WITH THIS WEEK'S GROUP OF POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSORS.

CINDY RUGELEY HEADS UP THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA DULUTH AND DROVE ALL THE WAY DOWN FROM DULUTH TO JOIN US TONIGHT.

LARRY JACOBS HEADS UP THE CENTER FOR POLITICS AND GOVERNANCE AT THE U OF M'S HUMPHREY SCHOOL.

AND WE WELCOME BACK DAN HOFRENNING, WHO TEACHES STUDENTS AT ST. OLAF COLLEGE DOWN IN NORTHFIELD.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

LARRY JACOBS, WHAT ARE THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THE $148 MILLION DAMAGE AWARD TO TWO FORMER GEORGIA ELECTION WORKERS WHO SUED RUDY JULIE EVERYONE YI FOR DEFAMATION OVER HIS 2020 LIES?

>> LYING PAYS.

I MEAN, HE'S GOING TO PAY A LOT OF MONEY AND I THINK FOR FOLKS WHO SAID WILL THERE BE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE 2020 ELECTION, THIS IS ONE PART OF IT.

THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN INDICTED AND PROSECUTED AND MANY, MANY WHO HAVE PLED OUT GUILTY.

THIS IS THE LEGAL SYSTEM CHUGGING ALONG.

IT IS A POWERFUL MESSAGE TO REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, THAT IF YOU BLATANTLY LIE, AND HURT FOLKS WHO ARE RUNNING OUR ELECTIONS, THOSE, YOU KNOW, REALLY HARD-WORKING, NONPARTISAN ENGINES OF OUR ELECTION SYSTEM, YOU'RE GOING TO BE TAKEN TO COURT AND YOU MAY WELL LOSE.

>> YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WORRIED ABOUT RISING AUTHORITARIANISM AND I THINK IT'S ONE STRIKE IN FAVOR OF THE RULE OF LAW.

>> Eric: PROFESSOR RUGELEY, I WANT TO MOVE TO THE HOUSE VOTE ON AN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.

NOW, THIS ISN'T A VOTE FOR IMPEACHMENT, CEPGHT?

>> >> YEAH, IT PRETTY MUCH JUST SAYS THERE'S SOMETHING THERE AND WE CAN LAUNCH AN INQUIRY THERE AND INVESTIGATE IT.

THEY CAN'T SAY WHAT THE THERE IS THERE.

BUT THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT AND THAT HE CAN LAUNCH AN INVESTIGATION INTO T. A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD ARGUE THAT PERHAPS THIS ONE'S A BIT PREMAT YOUR.

MATURE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S JUST NOT MUCH JUSTIFICATION TO IT.

>> Eric: WHERE DOES HUNTER BIDEN FIT INTO ALL THIS?

>> HE'S -- WELL, THAT'S THE ARGUMENT THAT HE MADE MONEY OFF HIS FATHER'S VICE PRESIDENCY.

AND SOME OF THE OR ANOTHER, THAT JOE BIDEN BENEFITED FROM THAT.

AND SO THAT'S THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT.

NOW, THERE'S NOT ANY EVIDENCE TO THAT.

AND I'M OVER ON THE SENATE SIDE, YOU KNOW, CHUCK GRASSLEY HAS PRETTY MUCH SAID I'VE LOOKED INTO THIS FOREVER AND HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING YET.

BUT IT'S JUST -- IT'S -- [ Laughter ] >> Eric: ARE WE SEEING A CHEEMENNING OF THE IMPEACHMENT PROCESS?

>> I THINK SO.

YOU MAY REMEMBER NANCY PELOSI WAS ALWAYS PUTTING HER FOOT ON THE BRAKE ABOUT IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS ABOUT TRUMP TROINL.

SHE SAW THE EVIDENCE.

SHE AGREED TO MOVE FORWARD.

BUT THERE WAS EVIDENCE.

THERE WAS SOMETHING DEMONTHS STRABL.

, THEY'VE BEEN LOOKING INTO JOE BIDEN AND THESE ALLEGED IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES NOW FOR MONTHS AND YEARS.

AND THEY HAVEN'T FOUND ANYTHING.

AND THIS WAS JUST, I THINK, A REALLY UNFORTUNATE CHEAPENING OF THE PROCESS.

>> AND SOMETIMES THE EVIDENCE IN PRIOR IMPEACHMENT TRIALS AS PRESIDENTS SPEAKING TO TAPE.

>> Eric: REPUBLICANS WOULD SAY THAT THE DEMOCRATS RAILROADED TRUMP INTO A PAIR OF IMPEACHMENTS.

>> THEY ABSOLUTELY WOULD, BUT I THINK AGAIN IT HAS TO GO BACK TO THE EVIDENCE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN RICHARD NIXON WAS IMPEACHED, HE WAS SPEAKING ON TAPE.

AND THEY DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF SMOKING GUN HERE.

>> Cathy: CAN WE TALK ABOUT CONGRESSMAN DEAN PHILLIPS FOR JUST A MOMENT HERE.

HE SAYS HE'S GOING O MARCH ON EVEN TO THE CONVENTION THIS SUMMER.

AND I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, LARRY JACOBS.

>> I LIKE AND RESPECT DEAN PHILLIPS, BUT WHAT HE'S DOING IS QUICKLY BECOMING A NATIONAL JOKE.

THERE'S NO -- HE'S, LIKE, ON THE FLY, PUTTING TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, POLICY AGENDA.

AND THIS WAS A GUY WHO WOULD, I THINK, IN THE PAST WOULD HAVE MOCKED SOMEONE WHO HADN'T PUT IN THE TIME AND THOUGHT TO COME UP WITH SERIOUS PROPOSALS.

AND NOW HE'S, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A FRIVOLOUS CAMPAIGN AT THIS POINT.

>> Eric: AND YET, I READ IN CHARLIE COOK'S POLITICAL NEWSLETTER THIS WEEK, PROFESSOR RUGELEY AND HE OPENLY SAYS BIDEN MAY NOT MAKE IT TO THE FINISH LINE AND HE LISTED 28 POTENTIAL DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.

SO IS PHILLIPS A CANARY IN THE COAL MINE LEER?

>> I DON'T THINK HE'S A CANARY IN THE COAL MINE.

I DO AGREE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING PERHAPS BIDEN'S NOT GOING TO MAKE IT AND THERE'S OTHER CANDIDATES.

I DON'T SEE HIM LISTS AMONGST THEMING.

I AGREE WITH LARRY.

IT'S ALMOST BECOME A JOKE.

BUT AGAIN I HINK THERE'S, YOU KNOW, I -- I'M BEGINNING TO WONDER IN THE BACK OF MY MIND IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE NEITHER OF THE TOP TWO OR BOTH OF TOP TWO.

>> Eric: YOU SEND STUDENTS TO NEW HAMPSHIRE EVERY YEAR.

>> YEP, WE'RE GOING AGAIN NEXT MONTH.

I THINK A FEW OF THEM ARE GOING TO WORK ON THE DEAN PHILLIPED CAMPAIGN.

THERE'S A WRIT IN BIDEN CAMPAIGN THAT IS HAPPENING.

COUPLE STUDENTS WORKING FOR DONALD TRUMP.

FOUR STUDENTS WORKING FOR NIKKI HALEY.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE A PRETTY INTERESTING PLACE.

>> Eric: PALESTINE AND ISRAEL.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT, ALL OF YOU, ABOUT THIS TUSSLE BETWEEN ACADEMIC FREEDOM AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND HOW HARD IS IT TO BE ON CAMPUS NOW?

>> I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT IT TODAY WITH A GROUP OF STUDENTS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAINLY ANGER AND BEREAVEMENT.

IT'S A ORRIFIC SITUATION, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED TO ISRAEL ON OCTOBER 7TH WAS BARBARIAN STYLE SLAUGHTER.

AND WHAT ISRAEL'S BEEN DOING IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING UNPRECEDENTED IN MANY, MPCA DECADES.

YOU KNOW, MAYBE UPBARDS OF 18,000 PEOPLE, CIVILIANS, MANY CIVILIANS KILLED.

AND SO I THINK THE BIG BATTLE ON CAMPUS IS, HOW DO YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?

AND THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CLOSE DOWN DISCUSSION.

IF YOU TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, USE THE WORD GENOCIDE, AND THEN ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE, THERE ARE PHRASES LIKE, YOU KNOW, FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA, THAT HAVE REALLY POWERFUL TRIGGERING.

AND THE REALITY IS, THE FREE SPEECH LAW AND THE WAY IT'S BEEN PRACTICED ALLOWS YOU TO SAY THAT.

AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT CROSSING KIND OF THE LINE SO THAT YOUR ACTIONS POSE A DIRECT THREAT TO PARTICULARLY INDIVIDUALS.

SO I THINK THIS IS VERY DIFFICULT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

I THINK THE SPEECH IS LARGELY PROTECTED DESPITE SOME MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO THINK OTHERWISE.

>> I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE TOO THAT SO MUCH OF THIS DEBATE ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES COMES IN THESE FREE SPEECH CATEGORIES AND I THINK IT WOULD E BETTER IN STIEWTIONZS OF HIGHER EDUCATION DID THINGS LIKE THEY DID DURING THE VIETNAM WAR.

THEY DID TEACH-INS.

WE HAVE A HISTORY DEPARTMENT, ETHICS DEPARTMENTS, PHILOSOPHY DEVELOPMENTS.

FOR EXAMPLE, IN PHILOSOPHY, THERE'S A JUST WAR TRADITION THAT ASKS THE QUESTION, WHEN IS A WAR JUST?

THAT WOULD BE A GREAT FRAMEWORK TO TAKE INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ISRAEL-PALESTINE WAR.

>> IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM.

IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT FOR STUDENTS TO DISCUSS IT.

IT'S PAINFUL.

AND MANY OF THEM, WE HAVE VERY DIVERSE STUDENT BODIES WHO, MANY OF THEM ARE NOT DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY IT BUT THEY DO KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE.

AND SO, I MEAN, IT'S TOUGH.

AND I THINK THEY TRY TO BE RESPECTFUL OF EACH OTHER.

AND AGAIN, I MEAN, IF YOU'RE NOT THREATENING SOMEONE, I THINK IT'S GOOD, AND I THINK IT'S HEALTHY ND FOR MANY OF THEM, IT'S A LITTLE BIT CATHARTIC.

>> Eric: DECEMBER -- I'M SORRY.

, JANUARY 19TH, GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.COM.

WHAT'S GOING TO BE HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.

IN THE CONGRESS?

>> MAYBE NOT A WHOLE LOT.

I MEAN, RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE S NOT OVING IN A DIRECTION THEY NEED.

BUT THERE HAS BEEN SOME PRAGMATISM.

WE JUST A DEFENSE BILL OF SOME MAGNITUDE PASS.

THEN THERE WERE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY THE REALISTS IN BOTH PARTIES KIND OF CUT A DEAL IN THE HOUSE WITH THE SENATE.

SO I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP HOPE.

>> Eric: BORDER FUNDING OR BORDER POLICY IN EXCHANGE FOR AID TO UKRAINE, IS THAT WHERE WE'RE AT ON THAT ONE?

>> IT'S AYBE ONE OF THOSE THINGS, IT WON'T GET DECIDED UNTIL THE VERY LAST MOMENT.

AND MAYBE A BIT OF PRAGMATISM, A BIT OF COMPROMISE WILL PREVAIL AND COMPROMISE SOMETIMES LOOKS UGLY TO BOTH SIDES.

IN A DISPUTE.

>> Cathy: WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A QUICK COMMENT ABOUT THAT?

>> THAT SEEMS TO BE WHERE THE DISCUSSION IS IN THE SENATE NOW, WORKING OUT AND SEE IF THEY CAN -- >> I THINK WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING HERE IS, THERE'S SO MANY DEMOCRATS IN BLUE AREAS WHO HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH UNDOCUMENTED OLKS, CHICAGO, AND NEW YORK AND ELSEWHERE.

THAT IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A BIT OF A SEA CHANGE IN THE DEMOCRATIC RANKS WHERE THEY'RE NOW WILLING TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SOME REALLY SERIOUS BORDER POLICIES THAT WERE UNTHINKABLE, YOU KNOW, WHEN BIDEN WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN 2020.

>> Cathy: SO WILL IMMIGRATION BE THE TOP ISSUE YOU THINK IN THIS ELECTION?

>> WELL WELL, ABORTION WILL BE.

>> I THINK BIDEN WOULD RATHER IMMIGRATION NOT BE ON THE AGENDA.

AND I HAVE A HUNCH THAT HE WOULD BE FINE IF HE COULD CUT A DEAL WITH THE REPUBLICANS, EVEN IF IT ANGERS SOME OF THE DEMOCRATIC ALLIES OF THE IMMIGRATION GROUPS.

>> Cathy: YOU STILL SAY ABORTION?

>> I THINK ABORTION'S GOING TO BE A TOP ISSUE.

IMMIGRATION IS GOING TO BE A TOP ISSUE.

IT'S NOT GOING TO BE JUST ONE.

BUT I FOUND THAT ABORTION SEEMS TO HAVE JUST TREMENDOUS LEGS, EVEN HERE WHERE THEY'VE DEALT WITH IT.

IT JUST REALLY DOES.

AND I MEAN, THE SUPREME COURT TAKING P THE -- WHICH WAS REQUESTED BY THE BIDEN - ADMINISTRATION, TAKING THAT UP IS ALSO GOING TO REIGNITE.

>> Eric: I HEAR THE BELL.

CLASS DISMISSED.