WORKER SAFETY IN A PANDEMIC COMING UP NEXT ON "IVORY TOWER."

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

I AM SO EXCITED TO HAVE THE PANELISTS JOINING ME HERE IN THE STUDIO.

THE PROFESSORS HERE ARE HERE TO DISCUSS THE NEWS.

BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND KRISTI ANDERSON FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

WELL, PAM, THE BIG PANEL, THE BIG STORY NATIONALLY FOR THE WEEK HAS BEEN THE CONVICTION OF FORMER POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN.

HERE IN ONONDAGA COUNTY, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY SAID THIS CASE HAS CHANGED THE NARRATIVE ABOUT POLICING.

AND TARA, I'M WONDERING DO YOU THINK Mr. CHAUVIN IS ONE BAD APPLE OR THE SYSTEM IS REALLY ROTTEN AND NEEDS WORK?

>> WELL, BOTH.

HE IS ONE BAD APPLE.

YOU SHOULDN'T TAR EVERY POLICE OFFICER WITH WHAT HE HAS DONE, BUT THE SYSTEM ALSO NEEDS SOME MAJOR OVERHAUL.

MANY PEOPLE HAVE ARGUED THAT THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY UNDONE.

THE PROBLEM IS NO ONE HAS REALLY COME UP WITH A BETTER IDEA OF WHAT WOULD BE A BETTER SYSTEM.

SO WE NEED TO OVERHAUL THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE FOR RIGHT NOW.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE, AS A SOCIETY, NEED TO DECIDES WHAT DO WE WANT OUR POLICE OFFICERS TO BE?

DO WE WANT THEM TO BE WARRIORS OR GUARDIANS BECAUSE THEY HAVE INCREASINGLY BECOME WARRIORS, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS WE WOULD PREFER THEM TO BECOME GUARDIANS.

AND IF WE UTILIZE THE GUARDIAN IDEOLOGY, THEN THAT WILL ALSO CHANGE THINGS LIKE THE USE OF FORCE.

IT WILL MEAN THAT THEY HAVE TO WORK MORE ON TRUST AND ACCOUNTABILITY, ET CETERA.

SO I THINK IT'S BOTH.

>> I LIKE THE GUARDIAN NOTION.

I THINK THERE ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE AND ACTUALLY ARE BEING DONE TO DEMILITARIZE, I GUESS, I WOULD SAY, THE POLICE.

BERKLEY, CALIFORNIA, NOT SURPRISINGLY, PROBABLY JUST PASSED LEGISLATION THAT IS MOVING MUCH OF ITS TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT TO CIVILIAN OPERATORS.

I MEAN THE ARGUMENT IS THAT WE KNOW HOW MUCH CAMERAS CAN FIND OUT.

THEY KNOW IF YOUR REGISTRATION IS EXPIRED OR IF YOU HAVE A BROKEN TAIL LIGHT OR SPEEDING OR GOING THROUGH A RED LIGHT.

JUST SEND TICKETS TO PEOPLE AND YOU DON'T NEED TO STOP THEM WITH GUNS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

I THINK THAT'S ONE THING.

THE OTHER PHENOMENON HAPPENING IN SOME PLACES WE'VE READ ABOUT AND TALKED ABOUT; ITHACA, FOR EXAMPLE, IS SENDING SORT OF COMMUNITY RESPONDERS OUT, MAYBE WITH AN UNARMED POLICE OFFICER, TO DOMESTIC DISTURBANCES, TO NEIGHBORS ARGUING, TO MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE AND PEOPLE TRAINED IN THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS.

THOSE ARE BOTH STEPS TO DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE, I THINK, AND MAKE THE WHOLE PUBLIC SAFETY THING MORE INTO GUARDIANS THAN TO WARRIORS.

>> I AGREE THAT WE HAVE TO FUNDAMENTALLY REIMAGINE POLICING IN THE UNITED STATES AND THE WAYS THAT YOU ALL HAVE SUGGESTED.

BUT I THINK THAT WHAT YOU ARE ALLUDING TO IS THAT WE REALLY DON'T NEED THE POLICE FOR EVERY SITUATION.

I DON'T KNOW WHY WE NEEDED TO SEND THE POLICE IN BECAUSE OF USE OF A $20 OR COUNTERFEIT $20 BILL.

IF A PERSON IS HAVING A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU WANT TO SEND THE POLICE IN FOR THAT OR IN THE CASE OF ERIC GARNER, SELLING SINGLE CIGARETTES.

THAT SEEMS TO ME THAT SHOULD BE HANDLED BY OTHER PARTIES.

I'M GOING TO BROADEN THIS A LITTLE BIT TO SAY THAT WHEN WE LOOK BEYOND THE POLICE, WAS WE SEE ALSO ARE POLITICIANS.

POLITICIANS WHO, EVERY YEAR, ELECTION TIME COMES AROUND, YOU CAN ALMOST, YOU KNOW, CLOCK IT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO ENGAGE IN FEAR MONGERING AND TALKING ABOUT WHAT, FOR THE MOST PART, AN EXAGGERATED VIOLENT CRIME PROBLEM, ONLY 1% LESS THAN OF AMERICANS HAPPEN.

MOST OF THE VIOLENT CRIME HAPPENS IN BLACK COMMUNITIES THE POLITICIANS STIR THE POT.

AS A COUNTRY, WE HAVE A PENSION OF TURNING TO CRIMINALIZATION TO DEAL WITH EVERY ACTIVITY WHEN WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT.

AND I'M GOING TO SAY THIS, WITHOUT BEING A TONGUE IN CHEEK, THAT AS WE ARE THINKING ABOUT VACCINE DEVELOPMENT, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT A VACCINE FOR WHAT'S KNOWN AS NEGRO PHONE PHOBIA AND THAT THE THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF AMERICANS BOTH BLACK AND WHITE, WHO ARE AFRAID OF BLACK PEOPLE AND UNTIL WE GET T, WE WILL CONTINUE TO ACCEPT POLICE ARGUMENTS THAT SAY OH I THOUGHT HE WAS REACHING FOR SOMETHING.

I WAS AFRAID FOR MY LIFE, WE'LL CONTINUE TO GET JURORS WHO ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT.

>> THERE IS A STRUCTURAL RACISM PROBLEM.

IT'S NOT CONFINED TO THE POLICE, BUT IT CERTAINLY EXISTS IN POLICE FORCES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

THE CHAUVIN CASE IS A VERY SPECIFIC CASE, EVEN IN THE LAST WEEK OR TWO, THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER POLICE CITIZEN ENCOUNTERS WITH AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHERE THEY HAVE DIED.

12 OR 13-YEAR-OLD BOY WAS RUNNING AWAY AND HE WOUND UP BEING SHOT EVEN THOUGH HE HAD A GUN BUT DISPOSED OF IT.

THE TASER VERSUS HANDGUN CASE WHERE THE POLICE OFFICER THOUGHT SHE WAS REACHING FOR HER TASER AND ACTUALLY HAD REACHED FOR HER HAND GUN AND WOUND UP SHOOTING AND KILLING A YOUNG MAN BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR.

THAT KIND OF ACCIDENT HAS HAPPENED RARELY BUT IT HAS HAPPENED A FEW TIMES.

WHEN YOU HAVE PARTICULAR CASES, HAVE YOU YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PARTICULAR FACTS OF THE CASE.

P THE CHAUVIN CASE, THIS WAS A CASE IT WAS CLEAR HE WAS GOING TO BE CONVICTED BECAUSE IT HAPPENED IN SLOW MOTION, BECAUSE IT WAS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF THE EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE.

THERE WERE NUMEROUS WITNESSES.

IT WAS FILMED.

YOU HAD SFRENSIC AND MEDICAL TESTIMONY.

I EVEN SAID TO MY STUDENTS THERE WASN'T ANY DOUBT HE WAS GOING TO BE CONVICTED.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT SOMEHOW THE RACISM PROBLEM HAS BEEN OVERCOME OR SOLVED.

IT'S ONLY ONE CASE AND IT WAS A VERY CLEAR CUT CASE.

AND THE MILITARIZATION OF OUR POLICE FORCES IN AMERICA, WHICH SEVERAL OF YOU HAVE ALLUDED TO, IS ALSO A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM BECAUSE POLICE HAVE HUGE AMOUNTS OF EQUIPMENT THAT THEY HAVE RECEIVED SINCE 9/11 THAT IS OF A MILITARY NATURE.

THEY INCREASINGLY THINK AND ARE TRAINED IN THOSE TERMS, AND POLICING TYPICALLY IS NOT BENEFICIAL WHEN POLICE THINK OF THEMSELVES AS QUASI SOLDIERS RATHER THAN PEOPLE PARTICIPATING IN KIND OF COMMUNITY ACTIVITIES AND OVERSIGHT IS NOT EFFECTIVE IN MOST PLACES.

THE EXTERNAL REVIEW IDEA HAVE PLACES AND ORGANIZATIONS-- HAVE ORGANIZATIONS OUTSIDE THE POLICE FORCE TO OVERSEE BUT ARE TYPICALLY INEFFECTIVE.

ALL OF THAT STUFF NEEDS TO BE RETHOUGHT AND NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT INTO PLAY.

BECAUSE ONE OF THE BILLS THAT KAREN BASS, A DEMOCRAT IN CALIFORNIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PROPOSED IS A BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE THAT ALL VIOLENT ENCOUNTEREDS WITH THE POLICE BE REPORTED TO THE FBI SO WOULD YOU HAVE AN EXTERNAL MONITORING.

BUT HERE'S THE THING.

CHAUVIN IS AN EXCEPTION ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT IT WAS RECORDED.

THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WAS SHOCKED FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, THE LOCAL CLEANERS OWNER, BUT THE WASHINGTON POST HAS TRACKED THESE HOMICIDES SINCE 2014, WHEN MICHAEL BROWN WAS KILLED IN FERGUSON.

AND WHAT THEY HAVE FOUND IS THAT, DESPITE ALL OF THE UPROAR, THE SO CALLED RACIAL RECKONING, THAT THERE HAS NOT BEEN A DENT IN THE NUMBER OF UNARMED PEOPLE KILLED BY BLACKS AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE GENERALLY, IT COMES DOWN TO A THOUSAND A YEAR AND THREE EVERY DAY.

THE SHAME OF IT IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE VIDEO TO SHOW US AND SO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ALL OF THOSE OTHER CASES.

>> LET ME TURN US TO SOME STATE NEWS.

THE LEGISLATURE PASSED WHAT IS CALLED THE HERO ACT WHICH REQUIRES BUSINESSES WITH 10 OR MORE EMPLOYEES TO KEEP CERTAIN STANDARDS TO PROTECT WORKERS FROM INFECTIOUS DISEASES LIKE COVID.

UNIONS ARE BEHIND THE REQUIREMENTS.

THEY REQUIRE ADEQUATE PPE AND SOCIAL DISTANCING, BUT THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IS CONCERNED ABOUT FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS THAT THEY MIGHT BE AMENABLE TO, HEAVY HANDEDNESS OF THIS BILL AND THE REQUIREMENT THAT CALLS FOR EMPLOYER-EMPLOYEE COUNCILS GIVING WORKERS A VOICE.

BOB, SHOULD THE GOVERNOR SIGN THIS BILL?

>> I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

I HAVEN'T GOTTEN INTO THE DETAIL OF THE BILLS.

IF THERE IS VULNERABILITY, IT WOULD BE LITIGATION.

BUT THE IDEA OF ALLOWING EMPLOYEES IN THE WORKPLACE TO PARTICIPATE IN POINTING OUT HAZARDS, PROBLEMS, DIFFICULTIES IN THE WORK ENVIRONMENT, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE PANDEMIC AND PANDEMIC-RELATED ISSUES THAT EVERYBODY HAS FACED THIS PAST YEAR, I THINK, IS A GOOD IDEA.

IT'S NOT A NEW IDEA.

ON OUR CAMPUS AT CORTLAND, AND I'M SURE AT OTHER STATE CAMPUSES AND STATE OFFICES, WE HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AND SAFETY COMMITTEE AND THAT'S EXISTED FOR DECADES.

AND IT IS PRECISELY, YOU KNOW, OFFICE PEOPLE OF ALL DIFFERENT POSITIONS PARTICIPATING IN PERIODIC MEETINGS WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT HEALTH AND SAFETY CONCERNS.

AND A PERSON I WORK WITH AT CORTLAND HAS BEEN ACTIVE IN OUR PARTICULAR COMMITTEE ON CAMPUS FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

AND SHE IS DOGGED AND TENACIOUS ABOUT CONCERNS.

AND SHE WILL BRING THEM AND CONTINUE TO BRING THEM UNTIL THEY ARE ADDRESSED AND WHO NODES BETTER WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORKPLACE THAN THE LINE PEOPLE WHO ARE DEALING WITH CUSTOMERS OR, YOU KNOW, AT THE OFFICE OR DEALING WITH WHATEVER THE PARTICULAR ROUTINES ARE AND THE NOTION MAY BE APPLIED TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

>> WE CERTAINLY SAW IT DURING THE PANDEMIC, JUST A HORRIBLE LACK OF, IN SOME INDUSTRIES, I'M THINKING MEAT PACKING PLANTS IN THE MIDWEST AND SO ON, OF SAFETY PRECAUTIONS AND EMPLOYEES TRIED TO BRING THIS TO PEOPLE'S ATTENTION.

NOTHING HAPPENED.

OSHA, IS TREMENDOUSLY UNDERFUNDED AND UNDERSTAFFED AND CERTAINLY IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION REALLY WAS HANDS OFF PRETTY MUCH.

SO I SUSPECT THIS BILL IS IN PART A REACTION TO THINGS THAT HAPPENED WHERE WORKERS IN NOT ONLY MEAT PACKING PLANTS BUT OTHER MANUFACTURING PLANTS, RETAIL STORES AND OTHER PLACES WERE, IT FELT LIKE, BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE NOT GETTING THE KIND OF PROTECTION THAT THEY NEEDED.

>> CERTAINLY NOT FOR THIS KIND OF PROBLEM.

SO YOU DO HAVE OSHA EMPLOYEE-EMPLOYER COMMITTEES, SAFETY COMMITTEES; HOWEVER, THEY WERE NEVER SET UP TO DEAL WITH THE TRANSMISSION OF AIRBORNE INFECTION OR INFECTIOUS DISEASES AND SO THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS NOVEL HERE AND CONNECTED TO THAT IS THAT THIS IS A PERMANENT STRUCTURE RIGHT?

YOU BUILT A PERMANENT INFRASTRUCTURE WHEREAS IN REACTION TO COVID'S INITIAL EMERGENCE, YOU HAD A BARRAGE OF REGULATIONS ISSUING OUT OF GOVERNOR'S OFFICES.

SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUT WASN'T ISSUED OUT OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

SO THIS SETS IT UP SO IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS IN PLACE, IF AND WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER PROBLEM WITH AIRBORNE INFECTIOUS DISEASES IN THE WORKPLACE, WHICH ARE MORE PROBLEMATIC FOR SOME INDUSTRIES THAN OTHERS.

HERE ARE THE CONCERNS I HAVE AND I'LL TAKE THEM OFF AUTO IF IT'S OKAY REALLY QUICKLY.

>> FIRST IS THE COST.

EMPLOYERS HAVE TO BEAR THE COST OF PROVIDING THE PPE EQUIPMENT.

AND FOR A BUSINESS OWNER WHO HAS ONLY 10 EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW, HOW IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?

SECONDLY, THERE IS GREATER EXPOSURE TO LITIGATION BECAUSE THIS BILL CREATES A BRAND NEW RIGHT OF PRIVATE ACTION WHEREBY EMPLOYEES CAN SUE EMPLOYERS UP TO $20,000 AND THERE ARE SOME OTHER COSTS, GREATER EXPOSURE TO LIABILITY ON THE PART OF THE PUBLIC BECAUSE YOU HAVE CLEAR STANDARDS THAT THEY CAN CHALLENGE.

>> TO ADD TO THOSE CONCERNS, MY CONCERN IS THAT THE EMPLOYEES, THERE WOULD BE THE INHERENT PRESSURE IF WE ARE NOT, MAYBE WE ARE NOT TOTALLY IN VIOLATION, BUT WE ARE NOT QUITE TOTALLY MEETING THE STANDARD FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE THE DECISION SOMETIMES WITH EMPLOYER PRESSURE, WELL MAYBE WE WON'T REPORT THIS VIOLATION BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY EGREGIOUS.

IT'S JUST OKAY.

MAYBE YOU DON'T HAVE 10 MASKS FOR EVERY 10 PEOPLE THAT ARE EMPLOYED HERE, YOU ONLY HAVE FIVE.

IT'S NOT THAT EGREGIOUS SO WE WON'T REPORT IT.

THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT CAN BECOME ANOTHER LEVEL OF BUREAUCRACY IN AN ADMINISTRATION.

QUITE FRANKLY, WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EMPLOYEES BEING ON THIS TYPE OF COMMITTEE, AND EMPLOYEES BEING ABLE TO REPORT VIOLATIONS, DOES PETTINESS BEGIN TO COME IN HERE?

I SAW YOU WALKING DOWN THE HALL FROM OFFICE A TO OFFICE B.

YOU FORGOT YOUR MASK SO I'M GOING TO REPORT IT.

THERE IS THAT CHANCE FOR INHERENT PETTINESS IN THIS AS WELL.

>> KRISTI MENTIONED OSHA AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THEM NOT BEING WELL PREPARED BUT WHAT GOOD IS THE LAW IF YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY AND MORE STAFF TO MONITOR IT?

>> THAT'S EXACTLY IT.

THIS BILL INVESTS ON SUPERVISORS ON SITE WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ENFORCING THIS, BUT AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE MONEY.

SO ONE OF THE CO-SPONSORS SAYS BUT WE'VE GIVEN A BILLION DOLLARS TO SMALL BUSINESSES.

THIS IS PERMANENT.

SO WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN THOSE $1 BILLION RUN OUT.

THERE IS ALSO THE ISSUE OF CONFUSION BECAUSE THERE WILL BE A DIFFERENT SET OF STANDARDS FOR EACH INDUSTRY AND, IN EFFECT, WE ARE ASKING NON-SCIENTISTS TO MONITOR SCIENTIFIC THINGS.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD.

I THINK IT'S A GOOD START BUT IN THE LONG RUN, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOME IMPROVEMENTS.

>> WELL, THE GOVERNOR WILL BE DECIDING IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS WHETHER TO SIGN THAT BILL OR NOT.

LET ME MOVE US TO OUR THIRD TOPIC AND I AM SORRY TO TELL YOU, PANELISTS, BUT WE MIGHT BE SNOBS.

AND MAYBE OUR AUDIENCE ALREADY THINK AT THAT TIME WE ARE.

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS MAP.

CITIZENS IN THE DARK BLUE STATES, MOST YOU SEE ARE IN THE NORTHEAST, ARE SUPPOSEDLY THE SNOBBIEST.

NEW YORK RANKS NUMBER 4.

THIS MAP COMES FROM A CAREER WEBSITE ZIPPIA, AND IT MINES CENSUS DATA LOOKING AT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WITH COLLEGE DEGREES, THE NUMBER OF IVY LEAGUE COLLEGES AND THE NUMBER OF GALLONS OF WINE CONSUMED YEARLY.

SO KRISTI, ARE WE TOO SNOBBISH?

>> MAYBE, BUT I HAVE TO SAY I TAUGHT A COURSE FOR YEARS ON HOW TO USE SOCIAL SCIENCE DATA.

I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE USESSED THIS AS A REAL EXAMPLE OF WHAT NOT TO DOFNLT THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS DEFINE CAREFULLY THE THING YOU ARE MEASURING.

SNOBBISM.

NEVER DO THAT.

THEY DON'T DO THAT IN THIS ARTICLE AT ALL.

IN FACT THE AUTHOR SAYS IT'S HARD TO DEFINE BUT YOU KNOW IT WHEN YOU SEE IT.

OKAY.

WELL WHAT SHE BELIEVES IS SNOBBINESS IS DRINKING WINE, HAVING A COLLEGE EDUCATION AND SO FORTH.

SO THEREFORE, USES THESE AGGREGATE NUMBERS TO SAY YOU CAN RUN INTO MORE SNOBS IN THIS STATE.

THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

AND ACTUALLY, IT MADE ME WONDER WHETHER IF SHE HAD BEEN MORE CREATIVE, SHE COULD HAVE FOUND SURVEY DATA WHICH, YOU KNOW, WOULD ASK PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WHAT MIGHT BE A DEFINITION OF SNOBBINESS, FOR EXAMPLE, DO YOU THINK YOU ARE BETTER THAN MOST PEOPLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

THERE IS PROBABLY DATA OUT THERE THAT YOU CAN FIND OUT HOW MANY SNOBBY PEOPLE THERE ARE IN DIFFERENT STATES.

THE FINAL THING I WOULD MENTION IS THAT IN THIS ARTICLE, THIS BRIEF ARTICLE, THERE WERE MANY GRAMMATICAL ERRORS AND I'M A GRAMMAR SNOB.

>> WHO EXACTLY DOES SHE THINK SHE IS... [LAUGHTER] >> I KNOW... >> PRECISELY.

>> JUDGING US?

BUT I WOULD SAY THIS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MAP, NOTICE THE SORT OF POLITICAL OVERLAP THERE SO YOU ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT THE COASTAL REGIONS AND THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RED MAPS THAT ARE THE LEAST SNOBBY.

WHERE ARE MOST OF THEM?

THE SOUTH.

>> OR UPPER MIDWEST.

>> AND I WILL SAY AS A MID WESTERNER, I'M A LITTLE STRUCK BY WHEN I WAS STRUCK WHEN I MOVED HERE.

THERE IS A DIFFERENT CULTURE HERE, RIGHT?

IN THE MIDWEST, YOU SPEAK TO EVERYBODY.

YOU HAVE THESE LENGTHY CONVERSATIONS TELLING PEOPLE ALL OF YOUR, YOU KNOW, LIFE HISTORY ON THE ELEVATOR.

AND YOU NEVER SEE THEM AGAIN.

BUT AS I SAID, NOW THAT I'M A NEW YORKER, I'M THINKING, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE WE ARE BETTER.

>> UP WITH OF THE THINGS I WAS STRUCK BY IN LOOKING AT THE RESPONSES TO THIS SURVEY POLL, THAT BASICALLY, MASSACHUSETTS, WHICH RANKED FIRST, JUST EMBRACED IT, LIKE WELL, OF COURSE WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE WITH BACHELOR'S DEGREES.

WELL OF COURSE.

AND I THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND I SAY THAT'S ONE WAY TO TAKE IT.

THAT'S A GOOD SIGN, YOU KNOW, MORE OF OUR RESIDENTS HAVE BACHELOR'S DEGREES, MORE OF OUR RESIDENTS, YOU KNOW,.

>> DRINK WINE.

>> AND SO I GUESS THAT'S ONE WAY TO LOOK AT IT.

BUT IN A MORE SERIOUS FASHION, IT ALSO SEEMS TO REFLECT SORT OF ECONOMIC DISPARITIES IN SOME OF OUR AREAS BECAUSE I WONDERED IF YOU REALLY BROKE DOWN THOSE STATE MAPS AND LOOKED AT WHERE THOSE IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS WERE OR LOOKED AT WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE GETTING MORE BACHELOR'S DEGREES, WOULD IT SPEAK TO ECONOMIC DISPARITIES WITHIN THE STATES?

AND OF COURSE THE SURVEY OR POLL REALLY DIDN'T DO THAT.

BUT THAT MIGHT ALSO TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT WHERE THERE IS WORK TO BE DONE IN TERMS OF PEOPLE GETTING A COLLEGE EDUCATION, ET CETERA.

>> ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THAT ONE OF THE FOUR LISTED CRITERIA IS DO YOU HAVE AN IVY LEAGUE COLLEGE UNIVERSITY IN THE STATE.

AND THERE ARE ONLY EIGHT.

THERE ARE EIGHT LIFEY LEAGUE SCHOOLS.

SO THAT PRETTY MUCH PREDETERMINES THE OUTCOME.

BEYOND THAT, IS THERE SNOBBERY IN HIGHER EDUCATION?

SURE THERE IS.

AND I HAVE TO SAY, I'M SURE ALL OF YOU HAVE GONE TO PANELS OR CONFERENCES OR OTHER MEETING OPPORTUNITIES AND THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO, TO ME, HEARING THEM TALK IS LIKE FINGERNAILS ON THE BLACKBOARD, NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY SAY BUT BECAUSE OF THEIR MANNER AND BECAUSE THEY CARRY WITH THEM A SNOBBISH MANNER.

I HATE THAT.

IT DRIVES ME BERSERK.

>> I'M WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WHO WENT TO IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE SNOBS BUT YOU MEASURE SNOBBINESS AT THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

YOU DON'T MEASURE AT THE STATE LEVEL.

>> THE TELL TALE SIGN IS HOW DO THEY PRONOUNCE HARVARD OR HAAVAAAD.

>> YOU CAN FIND SNOBBERY ELSEWHERE SUCH AS IN THE BUSINESS WORLD, PERIOD.

>> SERIOUSLY, COULD IT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THE STATE AND PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYERS BECAUSE THIS IS A CAREER WEBSITE.

>> IT'S A CRAPPY CAREER-- EXCUSE ME I.

IS NOT A GOOD CAREER WEBSITE WITH ALL THE AGREE MAT CAL ERRORS.

IT WAS NOT EDITED.

I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYBODY IS READING THAT.

>> AN F TO THE POLICE IN BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA DETAINING REPORTERS WHO WERE COVERING REPORTERS OVER THE DEATH OF DANTE WRIGHT.

THE REPORTERS WHICH INCLUDED AN S.U.

ALUM AND REPORTER LIZ SAWYER, WERE DETAINED, ORDERED TO LIE ON THEIR STOMACHS AND PHOTOGRAPHED.

POLICE FIRED RUBBER BULLETS AT THE REPORTERS.

REPORTERS WEAR LARGE TAGS AND CREDENTIALS FOR THIS VERY REASON, TO AVOID ANY MISUNDERSTANDING.

REPORTERS ARE PRESENT AT EVENTS LIKE THIS, NOT FOR THEMSELVES, BUT FOR ME AND FOR EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE COUNTRY.

AND FINALLY, A FEDERAL JUDGE RECOGNIZED THE MISTAKE OF THE POLICE WHEN HE ISSUED A RESTRAINING ORDER TO STOP THE POLICE FROM HARASSING REPORTERS.

>> NINA.

>> FOLLOWING BOB'S LEAD, I WOULD SAY LET'S NOT FORGET THE OTHER THREE OFFICERS CHARGED IN THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.

THEY INITIALLY HELPED DEREK CHAUVIN TO HOLD HIM DOWN, TO PIN HIM DOWN, WHICH IS WHY THEY HAVE ALSO BEEN CHARGED.

OF COURSE CHAUVIN HAD MORE SENIORITY THAN THEY DID.

BUT LET'S CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY THAT THEY COULD HAVE HAD MORE HUMANITY THAN HE DID.

IF SO, THEY WOULDN'T BE FACING PRISON TIME AND MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, GEORGE FLOYD WOULD STILL BE ALIVE $TAXER AR.

>> TO FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO WHO IS STAYING POLITICALLY RELEVANT FOR A POSSIBLE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL RUN.

HE WANTS US TO FOCUS ON A RETURN TO THE U.S. TO THE IRON NUCLEAR AGREEMENT AND NOT ON THE FINDING THAT HE AND HIS WIFE VIOLATED STATE DEPARTMENT ETHICS RULES OVER 100 TIMES.

>> KRISTI.

>> AN F TO THE EMERGENCE OF LEGAL POLITICAL CANDIDATES WHO PROMOTE QANON CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND HAVE ASSUMED OFFICES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, IN CALIFORNIA AND WASHINGTON STATE AND ESPECIALLY DISTURBING TO ME ANYWAY, TO SCHOOL BOARDS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN A SUBURB OF FLINT, MICHIGAN AND IN LAS VEGAS.

>> WELL, LET'S SEE WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING WELL, BOB.

YOUR A.

>> IN THE EARLY 1960S, A MAN NAMED CLARENCE EARL GIDEON APPEALED HIS CONVICTION OF PETTY THEFT BECAUSE HE COULDN'T AFFORD A LAWYER SAYING HE WAS ENTITLED TO A LAWYER UNDER THE SIXTH AMENDMENT.

THE MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL ORKED AN AN AMICAS BRIEF ON BEHALF OF THIS MAN, GIDEON, ALONG WITH OTHER ATTORNEYS GENERAL AND ULTIMATELY THE SUPREME COURT AGREED WITH THE MAN IN THE FAMOUS CASE GIDEON VERSUS WAINWRIGHT, THE MAN WHO ORGANIZED IT WAS WALTER MONDALE.

SENATE, VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, AMBASSADOR, MONDALE EMIT PIT MYSELF VIRTUOUS PUBLIC SERVICE AND HE DIED THIS WEEK.

HE WAS 93.

>> AMEN.

AND YOUR A.

>> FORMER SUPREME COURT REPRESENTED HIM AS HIS ATTORNEY.

A MACY'S DEPARTMENT SCHOOL IN VERMONT HAS BEEN TURNED INTO A HIGH SCHOOL.

THE HOME GOODS DEPARTMENT WAS CONVERTED INTO A LIBRARY, THE WAREHOUSE INTO A GYM AND THE FITTING ROOMS BATHROOMS.

EVERYTHING IN ME REALLY WANTS TO GIVE THIS AN F BUT AS ONE FRESHMAN PUT IT, IT'S WEIRD BUT COOL AT THE SAME TIME.

WHY WOULD I GIVE IT AN F, BECAUSE IT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED AT MY HIGH SCHOOL.

>> AND TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO ARCHEOLOGISTS WHO RECENTLY DISCOVERED THE LARGEST ANCIENT CITY EVER FOUND IN EGYPT CALLED THE RISE OF ATAN, PROMISEDS TO ADVANCE OUR KNOWLEDGE OF EGYPT AT ITS MOST PROSPEROUS.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S DIRECTIVE THAT FEDERAL EMPLOYEES SHOULD STOP REFERRING TO MIGRANTS AS ILLEGAL ALIENS OR ALIENS USING THE TERM MINOR LEAGUE RESISTANTS OR UNDOCUMENTED INDIVIDUALS.

WORDS DO MATTER.

>> WELL, WE HAVE TO CLOSE TONIGHT THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU ABOUT THESE TOPICS OR OTHERS.

YOU CAN WRITE US ON THE ADDRESS ON THE SCREEN AMPLET R AND IF YOU MISS THE SHOW ANY FRIDAY NIGHT, IT REPEATS SATURDAY AFTERNOONS AT 5:30 OR YOU CAN FIND THE SHOW ANY TIME ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

GOOD NIGHT.

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