WHAT'S CHANGED IN AMERICA?

HAS THE TIME COME TO KILL THE FILIBUSTER?

AND THE GROUND SHIFTS IN THE MIDEAST AND IN THE U.S. STAY TUNED.

"IVORY TOWER" IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

OUR PANELISTS TONIGHT ARE BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, KRISTI ANDERSON FROM THE MAXWELL SCHOOL AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, BEN BRAWFMAN FROM CAZENOVIA COLLEGE AND JOIN JOINING US FOR THE FIRST TIME, ANIRBAN ARCHAYA, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE FROM LeMOYNE COLLEGE.

WELCOME.

>> WELCOME.

>> IT HAS BEEN ONE YEAR SINCE GEORGE FLOYD WAS KILLED BY A MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER, TOUCHING OFF A SUMMER OF PROTESTS AND RIOTS.

A LOT HAS HAPPENED SINCE THEN, INCLUDING THE TRIAL AND CONVICTION OF DEREK CHAUVIN, THE OFFICER WHO KNELT ON GEORGE FLOYD'S NECK FOR MORE THAN NINE MINUTES.

IN THE YEAR SINCE THAT HAS HAPPENED, WHAT HAS CHANGED IN AMERICA.

>> I THINK ONE BIG CHANGE IS THAT WE HAVE BEGUN TO UNDERSTAND OUR HISTORY DIFFERENTLY, AND BETTER, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW; IN PARTICULAR, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO TRACK THE KIND OF INCREASING UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMRD OF SYSTEMIC RACISM INEQUITIES AND DISADVANTAGES, PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THAT BLACK PEOPLE WERE DISADVANTAGED IN VARIOUS WAYS.

THEY HAD FEWER RESOURCES AND SO ON.

BUT I THINK THAT OUR UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THAT WAS A RESULT OF PREJUDICE SOMEHOW I.

WAS THE RESULT OF INDIVIDUAL FEELINGS OR DISMISSAL OF THOSE PEOPLE.

AND I THINK WE UNDERSTAND BETTER NOW THAT THESE DISADVANTAGES, FOR EXAMPLE, THE REASON THAT-- THE REASONS THAT THE BLACK FAMILY WEALTH IS SO, SO, SO, 10 TIMES LESS THAN THE AVERAGE WHITE FAMILY WEALTH IS NOT JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE, WHITE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE, INDIVIDUALS ACT IN PICKER WAYS, BUT THAT THESE SYSTEMATIC DIFFERENCES AND DISADVANTAGES HAVE BEEN BUILT INTO OUR LAWS AND REGULATIONS AND PRACTICES FOR MANY YEARS, EVER SINCE THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR AND THE FAILURE OF RECONSTRUCTION.

>> WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING TO ME IS THAT THE PROBLEMS ARE STRUCTURAL, NOT INDIVIDUAL.

THE OLD NOTION THAT WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS BY A POLICE OFFICER, IT'S A ROTTEN APPLE IN THE BARREL AND YOU TAKE OUT THE ROTTEN APPLE BUT THAT HAS LONG BEEN A FLAWED WAY TO THINK ABOUT PROBLEMS.

THEY'RE STRUCTURAL AND ORGANIZATIONAL BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED 234 IN IN THE PAST YEAR IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE IN STRUCTURAL CHANGES HAS BEEN FUMBLED TO A GREAT DEGREE.

WHEN THE GEORGE FLOYD SHOOTING OCCURRED, AND IMMEDIATE MOVEMENT SPRUNG UP TO DEFUND THE POLICE.

THAT'S WHAT IT WAS LABELED.

WHAT A TERRIBLE MISTAKE THAT WAS BECAUSE THE FIRST THING HAVE YOU TO DO IF THAT'S YOUR POINT OF VIEW IS SAY THAT'S NOT WHAT WE REALLY MEAN.

WE DON'T REALLY MEAN END POLICING IN AMERICA EVEN THOUGH THAT'S WHAT THE LABEL SAYS.

THEY MEAN ORGANIZATIONAL REFORM.

REFORM MAY BE OCCURRING IN POLICE ORGANIZATION AS ROUND THE COUNTRY AND I THINK IT IS BUT IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH POLICE FUNDING, IT HAS INCREASED IN PLACES LIKE NEW YORK CITY, BALTIMORE, OAKLAND, MINNEAPOLIS.

WHAT HAS REALLY HAPPENED IS THAT MONEY HAS NOT COME OUT OF POLICE FORCES.

IT HAS BEEN PUT BACK INTO POLICING.

ONE ONLY HOPES THAT SPENDING WILL EMPHASIZE STRUCTURAL CHANGES WITHIN LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE EFFORTS TO REFORMS?

THERE HAVE BEEN.

>> WE HAD A BILL THAT PASSED THE HOUSE GEORGE FLOYD JUSTICE AND POLICING ACT WHICH ENHANCES TRANSPARENCY AND DATA COLLECTION THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE LAST SHOW, ALONG WITH ESTABLISHING BEST PRACTICES AND TRAINING THAT IS NECESSARY.

IT'S TIME TO INVEST AND NOT DEFUND.

I MEAN THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.

WE NEED TRANSPARENCY.

WE NEED EFFECTIVE TRAINING.

AND WE NEED TO REBUILD TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY THAT WE SERVE AND ALSO PROTECT.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT'S AT.

INVESTING IN THE METHODS OF TRANSPARENCY, THE DATA COLLECTION THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

INVESTING IN REALISTIC AND EFFECTIVE TRAINING THAT WILL CLOSE THAT GAP OF OFFICERS JUST BEING TOLD WHAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO SAY OR RIGHT THING TO DO.

AND REALLY AFFECTING THE HABITUAL RESPONSES SO THAT THEY RESPOND EFFECTIVELY WHEN THEY NEED TO IN A SPLIT SECOND, LIKE WE SAW YESTERDAY WITH AN ACTIVE SHOOTER.

AND THEN FINALLY WITH YOUR LAST PART OF TRUST, I THINK ON THE COMMISSION WITH OBAMA, THEY HAD THE WHITE HOUSE TASK FORCE, THE 21st CENTURY WHERE THEY HAD CHARLES RAMSEY, WHO WAS THE FORMER PHILADELPHIA POLICE OFFICER OR POLICE CHIEF, I SHOULD SAY THERE.

AND HE REALLY HAD THAT OUTLINED IN THAT REFORM DOCUMENT THAT WAS PUT OUT.

>> WELL, YOU MENTIONED THE HOUSE BILL, BUT WHAT ABOUT AT THE STATE LEVEL?

WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THIS POINT?

HAVE THERE BEEN CHANGES MADE AT THE STATE AND LOCAL ELVES LEVELS THAT ARE SIGNIFICANT?

>> LOCAL LEVELS, YES.

AND WE TALK BRD OREGON THAT HAS RESPONSE TEAMS AND ITHACA, BASICALLY YOU DON'T HAVE ARMED POLICE RESPONDING TO THINGS THAT DON'T NEED THAT KIND OF RESPONSE; THAT PEOPLE HAVING MENTAL PROBLEMS OR DOMESTIC DISPUTES AND/OR WE TALKED A COUPLE WEEKS AGO ABOUT PLACES THAT ARE THINKING ABOUT HAVING TRAFFIC INFRACTIONS, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF A CIVILIAN GROUP.

>> YEAH, I THINK AT THE LOCAL LEVEL IN NEW YORK WE SAW SOME REAL CHANGES; FOR EXAMPLE, ONE IMPORTANT THING IS TO MAKE PUBLIC THE DISCIPLINARY RECORDS OF POLICE OFFICERS.

AND NOW THERE IS A DATABASE THAT YOU CAN LOOK UP POLICE OFFICERS DISCIPLINARY RECORD.

AND I DO THINK, YES, AS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM, ONE OF THE ASPECTS OF SYSTEMIC RACISM IS TO BELIEVE POLICING PROPERLY, RIGHT?

AND ALEX HAVE I TALLY AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE POINTED OUT P THAT IN MANY CASES, THIS IDEA THAT POLICING PREVENTS CRIME IS A COMPLETE MYTH.

THE POLICE KNOW IT, EVERYBODY ELSE KNOWS IT.

THERE IS NO CORRELATION IN THE NUMBER OF POLICE FORCE AND VIOLENT CRIME.

ANOTHER MEANINGFUL THING THAT COULD BE DONE AT THE LOCAL AND THE FEDERAL LEVEL IS TO END QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

QUALIFIED IMMUNITY HAS BEEN CRITICIZED SQUARELY BY A LOT OF IMPORTANT POLICE REFORMS SCHOLARS AND CONSTITUTIONAL LEGALISTS AND YES, IT IS A VERY TOUCHY TOPIC, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, RECENTLY IN THE NOVEMBER COURT CASE, SUPREME COURT ALSO, YOU KNOW, DECLARED THAT ON A PARTICULAR CASE OF PRISON GUARDS, THAT THEY DON'T HAVE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

THERE IS CASE BY CASE LITIGATION REGARDING THAT BUT ON A BROADER LEVEL, THERE SHOULD BE SOME TALK ABOUT SHOOTING FIRST AND TALKING NEXT, THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE.

WHAT KIND OF STRUCTURAL CHANGES PROVIDES THAT IMPETUS AND THIS IS NOT INDIVIDUAL OR PERSONAL AGAINST POLICE OFFICERS.

THEY DO A LOT OF IMPORTANT WORK IN COMMUNITIES.

BUT IT'S THE STRUCTURE THAT CHANGES BEHAVIOR.

>> JUST REAL QUICK.

POLICE DO AFFECT CRIME.

THEY DO POSITIVELY IMPACT CRIME AND REDUCE CRIME.

BUT THEY NEED THE COMMUNITY SUPPORT TO DO THAT.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE TRUST NEEDS TO BE REBUILT.

>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THEY NEED THE COMMUNITY SUPPORT?

WHAT KIND OF SUPPORT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> THE SUPPORT THAT YOU NEED IN YOUR STAKEHOLDERS.

YOU CAN'T DO IT BY YOURSELF.

POLICE OFFICERS BY THEMSELVES CANNOT DO IT.

I AGREE WITH THAT 100%.

THEY'RE GIVEN THE POWER BY THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY SERVE.

THAT'S WHO PAYS THEM.

THAT'S WHO THEY'RE SUPPORTING AND THEY'RE THERE WITH AND IF YOU HAVE THEIR SUPPORT, THEN YOU HAVE THAT MANY MORE EYES, THAT MANY MORE WITNESSES, THAT MANY MORE PEOPLE THAT COME FORWARD AND CAN HELP REDUCE CRIME, WHERE YOU CAN GO WITH A PROBLEM-ORIENTED POLICING APPROACH AND YOU CAN LOOK AT WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT OUR VICTIMS?

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THEM?

WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT OUR SUSPECTS WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THEM.

AND THE MORE HANDS ON DECK YOU HAVE WITH THE POLICE, THE MORE EFFECTIVE IT WILL BE IN LOWERING CRIME.

>> THAT'S THE TRUST LEVEL, PEOPLE WILL GO AND SAY I SAW THIS AND I SAW THAT.

>> I AGREE 100% THEY CAN'T DO IT BY THEMSELVES.

>> IT SEEMS ALMOST CERTAIN THAT CONGRESS WILL NOT ESTABLISH A 9/11 STYLE COMMISSION TO INVESTIGATE THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6.

IF REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS CANNOT MANAGE TO PASS THIS BILL ON AN ATTACK ON OUR GOVERNMENT, THERE ANY HOPE FOR BIPARTISAN DEALS ON BIG ISSUES?

BOB, IS IT TIME TO END THE FILIBUSTER BECAUSE WASHINGTON CANNOT GET ANYTHING DONE?

>> THE FILIBUSTER LOOMS OVER EVERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION BEFORE CONGRESS RIGHT NOW AND THERE IS A LOT.

YOU MENTIONED THE JANUARY 6 STYLE COMMISSION.

I'M NOT SURE THAT'S DEAD IN THE SENATE YET.

IF SENATOR SCHUMER-- >> IT'S ON LIFE SUPPORT.

>> IT IS.

>> BUT IF SENATOR SCHUMER IS ABLE TO BRING IT TO THE FLOOR FOR DEBATE AND VOTE, THAT, I THINK, WILL BE A CRITICAL MOMENT.

YOU ARE RIGHT, IT MAY WELL BE ON LIFE SUPPORT.

BUT THE OTHER BILL THAT IS HANGING FIRE RIGHT NOW IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL AND THERE ARE NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS COME WITH A COUNTERPROPOSAL OF ABOUT $$1.9 TRILLION, THE REPUBLICAN COUNTERPROPOSAL IS ABOUT AROUND $900 BILLION.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE REPUBLICAN COUNTERPROPOSAL IS THAT TWO-THIRDS OF THAT IS PREEXISTING SPENDING.

>> SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT THERE IS STILL HOPE THAT WE DON'T NEED TO GET RID OF THE FILIBUSTER.

THERE IS STILL POSSIBLE COMPROMISE.

>> NO.

>> WELL, YOU FOOLED ME.

>> MY POINT IS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GET INTO THE NUMBERS, IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE REPUBLICAN COUNTERPROPOSAL IS SERIOUS.

AND IT REALLY DOES SEEM LIKE POSTURING.

SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN HAS SAID FRANKLY THAT LOOK, THE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT SERIOUSLY IN THIS GAME.

AND OF COURSE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN DELAY, DELAY, DELAY AND TRYING TO RUN THE CLOCK DOWN AS THE WEEKS AND MONTHS GO BY.

I THINK IT IS GOING TO COME TO A FILIBUSTER QUESTION.

>> I'M ASKING THAT QUESTION AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHERE YOU STAND SO I'M GOING TO ASK ANIRBAN.

>> THE FILIBUSTER IS NOT THERE IN THE CONSTITUTION.

IT'S NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL INTENT.

IT WAS LATER ON, YOU KNOW, CAME INTO BEING.

AND IT WAS MUCH MORE USED NOW THAN IT WAS USED IN THE 19th CENTURY.

I THINK THAT IT'S NOT ALWAYS-- YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET RID OF IT.

THERE ARE OTHER INTERESTING WAYS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE PRESENT VOTING CLAUSE CAN BE USED IN INTERESTING WAYS.

ALREADY IN A COUPLE OF PLACES THAT ONE COULD REQUIRE 41 VOTES TO SUSTAIN A FILIBUSTER AT ANY TIME.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, NOW, IF THERE ARE 51 YESES AND 0 NOS, THE BUT WHAT IF THERE WERE 41 SENATORS ARE INSISTENT THAT THEY HAVE TO TALK, IF THEY INSIST TO TALK TO CONTINUE, THE DEBATE WOULD BE OVER, RIGHT?

THAT MEANS IF I CALL A BILL AT 3:00 A.M., THE MINORITY HAS TO PRODUCE 41 VOTES, RIGHT?

SO THE IDEA IS NOW THAT THE MAJORITY, THE ONUS OF THE MAJORITY TO GATHER 60 VOTES.

WHY NOT SHIFT THAT ONUS IN THE MINORITY IN THE SENATE AND HAVE THEM SELECT THE 41 VOTES AT A PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME.

OR THERE COULD BE A NEW OPTION THAT NOT A COMPLETE NUCLEAR OPTION BUT AT LEAST IT WILL ALLOW THE DEBATES TO PROCEED ON PARTICULAR BILLS.

NOW IT'S SO OBSTRUCTIONIST, THAT YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT ANYTHING, RIGHT?

THE GUN PREVENTION LAW, THE DREAMER ACT.

>> CAN'T EVEN GET TO THE FLOOR.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE IT UP ONE LEVEL OF GENERALITY.

I MEAN OUR REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM IS SUPPOSED TO BE A MEANS OF ALLOWING THE PREFERENCES AND THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE TO BE IMPLEMENTED SOMEHOW AS THEY WANT THEM TO; THE POLICIES THAT ARE FAVORED BY THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION.

AND IF YOU, RIGHT NOW, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THAT WE WE ELECT REPRESENTATIVES TO CONGRESS THAT PRETTY MUCH REFLECT THE PUBLIC'S WANTS AND NEEDS.

THAT HASN'T HAPPENED.

GERRYMANDERING REALLY HAS MEANT THAT-- OR MEANS RIGHT NOW THAT THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ARE NOT VERY REFLECTIVE, NOT AT ALL REFLECTIVE OF IN THE POPULATION.

THE POPULATION IS IN FAVOR OF, YES, TAXING, PUTTING HIGHER TAXES ON WEALTHY PEOPLE AND CORPORATIONS.

THE GENERAL POPULATION WOULD LIKE SENSIBLE GUN CONTROL.

THE GENERAL POPULATION IS NOT IN FAVOR OF BANNING ABORTION.

I COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON.

IT SEEMS TO ME, RATHER THAN GETTING DOWN IN THE WEEDS OF OPPOSITION AND COUNTING VOTES AND STUFF IS JUST TO SAY WE DON'T NEED THIS.

WE WOULD LIKE GETTING RID OF THE FILIBUSTER MEANS THAT WE WOULD HAVE A FIGHTING CHANCE OF ENACTING LAWS THAT WERE ENDORSED BY THE MAJORITIES OF POPULATION.

I KNOW IT SOUNDS SIMPLISTIC BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT'S A LEVEL THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT.

AND REALLY, I'LL SAY ONE MORE THING.

THAT THE FILIBUSTER SUPPOSEDLY, YOU KNOW, HELPS TO GET BIPARTISAN CONSENT CONSENSUS AND SO O.

IT DOESN'T AT ALL RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK THAT SOMEHOW GETTING RID OF IT MIGHT FORCE MORE OR ALLOW MORE INTERPARTISAN DISCUSSION.

>> MY CONCERN IS SHORT-TERM IT WOULD FIX SOME ISSUES FOR THE MAJORITY THAT'S IN POWER NOW.

BUT WHAT IT WILL DO IS ELIMINATE A LOT OF DEBATE THAT'S NECESSARY TO OCCUR.

SO I AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF FLIPPING THE ONUS ON COMING FORWARD WITH SAYING WE'VE GOT 4 IS PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING-- WE'VE GOT 41 PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

>> IT IS HARD TO COME UP WITH ANY COHERENT DEFENSE OF THE FILIBUSTER.

YOU CAN HAVE PLENTY OF DEBATE IN THE SENATE WITHOUT A FILIBUSTER.

THE CRITICAL QUESTION IS THE 50 DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE RIGHT NOW, AT LEAST TWO OF THEM, CHRISTIANSON FROM ARIZONA AND MANSON FROM WEST VIRGINIA SAY THEY'RE OPPOSED TO GETTING RID OF THE FILIBUSTER BUT I THINK THERE IS A POSITIONING GOING ON WHICH IS THIS.

IF THE REPUBLICANS DEMONSTRATE AFTER CONSIDERING KEY PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO ENGAGE OR COMPROMISE MEANINGFULLY, THEY AT SOME POINT MAY BE PREPARED TO SAY THE REPUBLICANS DON'T MEAN IT.

THEY JUST WANT TO BLOCK, BLOCK, BLOCK AND WE ARE GOING TO SUPPORT ENDING THE FILIBUSTER.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THAT MOMENT WILL COME.

>> AND ACCORDING TO WHAT SENATOR MANSION WAS SAYING YESTERDAY, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT IS GOING TO COME.

>> HE SAID THAT REPEATEDLY BUT I'M NOT SURE I BELIEVE THAT.

>> LET'S TURN OVERSEAS, THE CEASE FIRE IS HOLDING BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS BUT THE GROUND SEEMS TO HAVE SHIFTED SIGNIFICANTLY AFTER THE MOST RECENT FIGHTING OVER GAZA.

THIS TIME ARAB AND JEWISH ISRAELI CITIZENS WERE BATTLING IN THE STREETS OF ISRAELI CITIES, PROGRESSIVES HERE ARE QUESTIONING U.S.-MILITARY SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL SPLITTING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ON THE ISSUE POTENTIALLY.

ANTI-SEMITISM IS ON THE RISE.

AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP REFRAMED MIDEAST POLICY, ANIRBAN, HOW SHOULD THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION MOVE FORWARD?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

THIS IS A REALLY COMPLICATED ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN THERE FROM, YOU KNOW, THE LATE 19th CENTURY AND AGAIN, OF COURSE AFTER THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

I JUST WANT TO START WITH A SMALL CAVEAT, THAT, I MEAN, IT'S UNFORTUNATE WHEN WE CRITICIZE STATE POLICY, IT BECOMES A CRITICISM OF THE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE STATE AND THAT SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE.

ONE SHOULD BE ABLE, AS SCHOLARS, TO SEPARATE POLICIES OF THE STATE AND PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING WITHIN IT.

AND HAVING SAID THAT, LET'S LOOK AT A PARTICULAR FACT.

IN 1947, THE U.N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY VOTED PALESTINE INTO JEWS AND PALESTINIANS, SIX DIVISIONS, THREE TO PALESTINIANS AND THREE TO JEWS AND IT WAS 53% OF TERRITORY THAT ISRAEL GOT.

AFTER THE 1948 WAR, ONLY 22% WAS LEFT WITH PALESTINIANS WHICH WAS TAKEN UP BY ISRAELI 1967.

AND PALESTINIAN CAN TRAVEL BETWEEN OCCUPIED WEST BANK AND THE GAZA STRIP WITHOUT ISRAELI PERMIT.

SO WHAT WE SEE IS NOT A TENABLE SITUATION ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, RIGHT?

ISRAEL AND PALESTINIANS CANNOT REALLY CONTINUE TO ENGAGE IN THIS SKIRMISH YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR.

SO I THINK A GOOD POLICY FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO ACTUALLY HAVE HAMAS, P.A.

AND THE ISRAELI AUTHORITIES AND ALSO BRINGING DIFFERENT VOICES FROM ISRAEL, THOSE WHO ARE IN FAVOR OF BENJAMIN NETANYAHU BUT ALSO WHO ARE AGAINST BENJAMIN NETANYAHU.

THERE IS A LARGE OPPOSITION AGAINST BENJAMIN NETANYAHU'S HEAVY HANDED POLICIES IN GAZA.

SO I THINK A TALK IS ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT AND WE CAN REACH SOMETHING LIKE THE OSLO ACCORDS AND WE CAN RETHINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT INTERNATIONAL VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW HAVE HAPPENED AND HOW THOSE COULD BE MITIGATED.

>> IS THERE MUCH OF A PEACE MOVEMENT IN ISRAEL ITSELF AT THIS POINT?

>> WELL THERE, MUST BE, BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT AMONG YOUNGER COHORTS IN ISRAEL, THEY ARE MORE HAWKISH THAN THE OLDER GENERATION, IRONICALLY.

YOU TEND TO SEE THE OPPOSITE IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

SO THEY HAVE BEEN STANDING BEHIND BENJAMIN NETANYAHU'S TOUGH STAND AND OF COURSE WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE BOTH HAMAS AND BENJAMIN NETANYAHU HAVE GAINED POLITICAL ADVANTAGE BY HAVING A WAR.

I MEAN BENJAMIN NETANYAHU HAS FACED A HOST OF PROBLEMS WITHIN HIS COUNTRY, CORRUPTION ALLEGATION IS PLUS THE FACT THAT HE WASN'T ABLE TO WIN A WORKING COALITION IN THE LAST ELECTIONS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN OLD SORT OF CHESTNUT THAT YOU CAN SOLVE DOMESTIC POLITICAL PROBLEMS BY HAVING A WAR AND EXTERNAL THREAT COMING AT YOU.

AND HAMAS, I THINK, SIMILAR KINDS OF CALCULATIONS.

I'M ASSUMING THAT ANIRBAN, WHAT YOU ARE ALLUDING TO IS A TWO-STATE SOLUTION, THIS ENDURING NOTION.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHILE THE BIOGRAPHIES IS BIOGRAPHIES BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS BACK TO TALKING ABOUT THAT IDEA, TRUMP JETTISONED THAT IDEA, IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE HOW THAT WILL EVER HAPPEN.

I DON'T SEE HOW THERE IS EVER GOING TO BE A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

>> BUT IF THERE IS NOT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION, I DON'T SEE ABALTERNATIVE.

>> IT IS HARD TO ENVISION THAT HAPPENING.

S IN PART BECAUSE TRUMP JETTISONED IT AND MOVED THE EMBASSY AND CLOSED THE CONSULATE AND, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY SUPPORTED EVERYTHING NET YAHOO!

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU WANTED TO DO AND IT IS THE CASE THAT ISRAEL IS BECOMING LESS DEPENDENT ON THE U.S.

THE U.S. HAS BEEN THE LONGEST AND LARGEST SUPPLIER OF WEAPONRY AND NOW THEY'RE GETTING THINGS FROM OTHER PLACES.

SO I DON'T SEE MUCH THAT WOULD TELL US YES, ANIRBAN'S RECOMMENDATIONS COULD BE FOLLOWED AND THERE COULD BE TALKS AND IT WOULD ALL... >> BRINGING IT HOME, THIS IS CREATING AN ISSUE HERE AS WELL.

WE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE REAL DIVISION IN THE U.S. OVER WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE.

>> AND I THINK PART OF THAT IS NOT UNDERSTANDING THE HISTORY AND HOW THINGS GOT TO WHERE IT'S AT AND HOW IT'S BEEN GOING ON.

I THINK HAMAS REALLY THROWS IN THIS ELEMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE INTERVIEWS I SAW WHERE THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, WE WON BECAUSE WE GET TO LIVE ANOTHER DAY.

EITHER WE ARE GOING TO SUCCEED IN MY LIFETIME, MY NEXT GENERATION OR THE GENERATION AFTER THAT.

THEY SEE SUCCESS AS BEING ABLE TO FIGHT AGAIN, NOT, YOU KNOW, GETTING THE UPPER HAND.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IDEOLOGY IS DIFFICULT TO WORK WITH IN AN EFFECTIVE MANNER WITHOUT THIS DIVERSITY OF COUNSEL COMING IN AND GIVING US ALL THE FACETS TO DEAL WITH.

>> WE NEED TO MOVE ON TO OUR As AND Fs.

WE COULD TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE MORE AND SHOULD AT SOME POINT.

BUT LET'S GO TO THE Fs.

BOB SPITZER.

>> THE STUPID METER HIT THE DAILY DOUBLE THIS WEEK.

I'M GIVING TWO FS TO REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN FOR SAYING THAT MASK WEARING REQUIREMENTS FOR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN INOCULATED, VACCINATED IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF ABUSE AS MURDERING JEWS IN THE GAS CHAMBERS DURING THE HOLOCAUST.

AND ALSO AN F TO REPRESENTATIVE MADISON HAWTHORN FOR SAYING THE BRITISH IN THE 18th CENTURY WOULD NOT HAVE SOBEREDDED IN YORKTOWN HAD GENERAL GEORGE WHACKERTON BEEN WEARING A MASK.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> KRISTI, YOUR F. >> AN F TO PROPOSED LEGISLATION IN TEXAS THAT CHANGES THE WAY SOCIAL STUDIES AND CIVICS CLASSES CAN BE TAUGHT.

TEACHERS COULD NOT TALK ABOUT WHITE SUPREMACY OR THE ROLE OF RACISM IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

EVEN MORE NEGATIVELY, STUDENTS WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO GET COURSE CREDIT FOR VOLUNTEERING WITH A CIVIL RIGHTS GROUP, FOR EXAMPLE, OR REALLY ENGAGING IN ANY KIND OF POLITICAL ACTIVITY AS PART OF THEIR CIVICS OR SOCIAL STUDIES COURSES.

>> ANIRBAN, YOUR F. >> I'LL GIVE MY F TO TWO YEARBOOKS.

LET ME SPELL THOSE OUT.

YEARBOOK BER TRAM TRAIL HIGH SCHOOL IN ST. JOHN'S COUNTY, FLORIDA, GOES TO THEM FOR DIGITALLY DISTORTING ONLY PHOTOS OF FEMALE STUDENTS TO ADD MORE CLOTHING WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT AND DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THE VERY STUDENTS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT AND ANOTHER F GOES TO ANOTHER YEARBOOK, LINCOLN JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL IN BENTONVILLE ARKANSAS SAYING THE 45th POAT US WAS NOT IMPEACHED AND DESCRIBING BLM PROTEST RS AS RIOTERS AND CALLING THE JANUARY 6 INSURRECTIONISTS ON THE CAPITOL AS PROTESTS.

>> MY F IS TO SPONSORED CONTENT IN LOCAL NEWS.

THIS IS HIGHLIGHTED ON LAST WEEK TONIGHT WITH JOHN OLIVER FOR ANYBODY THAT IS INTERESTED IN TAKING A LOOK AT THIS WHERE THEY MADE UP A COMPANY NAME VENUS INTERVENTIONS, AND WERE ABLE TO GET IT ON THREE LOCAL NEWS STATIONS FOR JUST A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS.

THIS HIGH LIGHTS THE INTEGRITY OF JOURNALISM THAT HAS BEEN DIMINISHED OVER THE YEARS.

>> I'M GIVING A-- WHEN I WAS YOUNG, MY FAMILY OUTING USED TO TAKE US THERE.

IT WAS TERRIFIC FOOD.

GRIMALDI FAMILY, NEWS THAT THEY'RE LEAVING THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS.

IT'S A SAD MOMENT.

>> MY A THIS WEEK IS IN THE CATEGORY OF THINGS MAY NOT BE AS BAD AS WE THINK.

A NEW GALLUP POLL FINDS THAT WHILE 53% OF REPUBLICANS THINK THAT TRUMP WON THE 2020 ELECTION, ONLY 26% OF AMERICANS CURRENTLY IDENTIFY AS REPUBLICANS SO THAT'S REALLY ONLY ABOUT 14% OF AMERICANS WHO THINK TRUMP IS STILL PRESIDENT.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY A GOES TO THE INTERNATIONAL TEAM OF SCIENTISTS CALL THE DARK ENERGY SURVEY TEAM FOR CREATING A MAP OF DARK ENERGY THAT AT PRESENT COVERS ABOUT A QUARTER OF THE SKY OF THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE.

>> AND BEN, YOUR A PLEASE.

>> TO G.O.P.

REPRESENTATIVES THAT MET WITH GLADYS SIKNIK.

THIS IS BRIAN'S MOTHER WHO WAS LOST DEFENDING THE CAPITOL.

>> SO AN A TO THEM AND TO HER.

AND THAT'S IT FOR US TONIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

AND FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER."

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.