♪ ♪ >> AS WE NOTED EARLIER, WE ARE NOW THREE DAYS INTO A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SCHOENBERG WITH NO END IN SIGHT.

A SIMILAR DECKLOCK CONTINUES HERE IN MINNESOTA OVER GUN CONTROL AND A POTENTIAL SPECIAL LEGISLATIVE ESSION.

PLENTY TO CHEW ON.

SO LET'S GET RIGHT TO IT.

REPUBLICANS UP FIRST TONIGHT.

FRITZ KNAAK IS A FORMER STATE SENATOR, NOW AN ATTORNEY.

BRIAN MCCLUNG, FORMER -- DEMOCRATS JOINING THEM, ABOU AMARA IS A FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW ALSO AN ATTORNEY AND ELLISON NESSY IS A D.F.L.

LOYALIST AND LOBBYIST AT THE CAPITOL.

BRIAN, ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THE NONDEVELOPMENT THAT THERE WILL BE EVIDENTLY NO SPECIAL SESSION AND TALKS JUST KIND OF DEADLOCKS?

>> I THINK WE SAW IT HEADED IN THIS DIRECTION.

I THINK MOST MINNESOTANS WANT TO SEE ACTION ON THIS ISSUE.

AND THAT'S PLAYED OUT IN THE PUBLIC POLLING AND SURVEYS.

BUT THE REALITY IS, THE MATH AT THE LEGISLATURE.

YOU KNOW, AND 67-67 IN THE HOUSE.

AND IN THE SENATE, IT'S 33-32.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TWO SPECIAL ELECTIONS COMING.

DON'T EVEN HAVE A AJORITY FOR EITHER PARTY IN THE MINNESOTA SENATE.

SO I THINK THAT HAS REALLY MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT ON A TOUGH ISSUE.

AND I THINK SOME OF THE LEGISLATORS ARE SAYING, AN ISSUE OF THIS WEIGHT AND MAGNITUDE DESERVES LEGISLATIVE HEARINGS AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

AND SO THAT LOOKS LIKE WHERE IT'S PROBABLY HEADED.

>> Cathy: BUT ABOU, THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO HAVE EVERYONE VOTE ON THIS.

HE WANTS REPUBLICANS TO TAKE A TOUGH VOTE.

>> AS HE SHOULD.

PARENTS ARE DEMANDING ACTION.

WE'VE GONE THROUGH ONE OF THE GREATEST CRISES IN OUR RECENT HISTORY.

THIS SUMMER, IT'S BEEN TERRIBLE.

AND SO IT'S CRITICAL THAT WE TAKE ACTION.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PARENTS TO SEE WHO IS ON THEIR SIDE AT THIS MOMENT.

AS WE HEAD INTO THE 2026 LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> Cathy: BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE DEMOCRATS WHO DON'T REALLY WANT TO VOTE ON THIS.

>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THE VAST, VAST, VAST AJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT CHANGES TO THE GUN POLICY IN MINNESOTA HAVE BEEN DEMOCRATS.

AND TO BRIAN'S POINT ABOUT COMMITTEE HEARINGS, THAT'S JUST INSIDE BASEBALL.

WE KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTIONS ARE.

THEY WORKED 25 YEARS AGO WHEN WE HAD THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS GOVERNMENT BY NEWS CONFERENCE THAT WE GOT ALL WEEK?

>> WHAT DIVING OF IT?

WHAT DO I THINK OF IT?

>> THE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS NO ONE'S TALKING TO EACH OTHER.

AND SO THE WAY YOU TALK TO SOMEBODY THAT YOU'RE NOT TALKING TO IS YOU BRING THE CAMERAS IN AND YOU YELL AT THEM AND THEY BRING THE CAMERAS IN AND THEY YELL BACK.

BUT THAT TELLS YOU THAT BASICALLY -- I MEAN, IF PEOPLE REALLY THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS GOING TO BE ACCOMPLISHED WITH SERIOUS DISCUSSION, THEY'D HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS.

IT'S NOT GOING ON.

BUT I DO WANT TO SAY ONE THING ABOUT THIS WHOLE GUN THING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SO MUCH OF IT THAT HAS THIS "WIZARD OF OZ" QUALITY TO IT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED ATTENTION TO THE GULF BEHIND THE CURTAIN.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS IS THAT ACCORDING TO THE F.B.I., OF THE 10,000 MURDERS, ROUGHLY A YEAR WE SEE THAT ARE GUN RELATEDRELATED MURDERS ONLY BOU2 OR 300 RELATE TO RIFLES HICH WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT BANNING.

SO A LOT OF SKEPTICAL REPUBLICANS ARE LOOKING AT THIS THINKING SAYING, THIS IS JUST ALL FOR SHOW.

YOU HEARD PEOPLE SAY THAT IT'S ALL FOR SHOW.

IF YOU'RE REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT IT YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH SOME OTHER THINGS LIKE SCHOOL SAFETY AND THAT ISSUE HAS COME UP.

I'M SURPRISED NO ONE'S SCREAMING ABOUT THE GOVERNOR TELLING THE CATHOLIC EDUCATORS TWO YEARS AGO THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO ALLOW CATHOLIC SCHOOLS TO BE PART OF THE STATE PROGRAM TO STRENGTHEN THE SCHOOLS.

>> Eric: PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE.

>> WELL, THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT BRINGING SUCH A DIVISIVE ISSUE TO THE VOTERS.

THERE TRULY IS.

SO I DON'T KNOW HOW FEASIBLE THAT IS.

BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE BIG, BIG CHANGES IN, I MEAN, IT'S ALWAYS A CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENT.

SO MAYBE WE BRING THAT CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENT TO THE VOTERS TO DECIDE.

>> T'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Cathy: I WAS GOING TO SAY --T HAPPENING?

>> NO.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

SAY, YOU'VE SAT IN THE HALLS OF POWER, ALL OF YOU HAVE.

IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY THE GOVERNOR WOULD CALL LEGISLATORS BACK WITHOUT AN AGREEMENT?

>> WELL, IT SEEMS UNLIKELY, RIGHT?

AND IT'S VERY RARE THAT GOVERNORS CALL THEM BACK WITHOUT -- I WAS INTEREST FOR ONE OF THOSE TIMES IN 2005 WHEN GOVERNOR PAW IMMEDIATELY CALLED A SPECIAL SESSION AFTER THE END OF THE REGULAR SESSION TO TRY TO GET WORKING ON A BUDGET AND THAT ENDED UP IN A STATE GOVERNMENT SCHOENBERG.

I THINK ARNE CARLSON TRIED TO CALL ONE TO TRY O DO A TWINS STADIUM.

SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEEING THE PATTERN THAT COMING BACK WITHOUT A PRESET AGREEMENT OR PLAN AND A SHORT TIME FRAME DOESN'T REALLY SEEM TO WORK.

>> Cathy: AND YOU'RE NODDING, ABOU?

>> I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE AGREEMENT ON THE FRONT END.

>> Eric: IS THERE POLITICAL BACKLASH FOR MINNESOTA CANDIDATES AND MINNESOTANS IN GENERAL, HOW THEY MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY THE FEDERAL SCHOENBERG?

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING BECAUSE MY DEMOCRATIC FRIENDS ARE ALL TELLING ME, OH, YOUR REPUBLICANS ARE DOOMED.

MEANWHILE, MOST OF MY REPUBLICAN FRIENDS ARE THINKING, BRING IT ON, WE CAN QUITE.

THE CONSTITUENCIES THAT ARE MOST AFFECTED TEND TO BE DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUENCIES AND FRANKLY I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT THEY GOT BACKED INTO THE CORNER THEY DID WHERE THEYND ED UP HAVING A SCHOENBERG.

I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO ULTIMATELY BE HURT BY THAT ARE THE DEMOCRATS.

PAST XPERIENCE SHOWS THAT, I THINK.

>> Eric: ALYSEN.

>> I DON'T SEE HOW THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO TAKE THE FALLER FOR THE REPUBLICAN TRIFECTA WHO CANNOT GOVERN THEMSELVES TO PASS A BUDGET.

YES, THEY NEED 60 VOTES IN THE SENATE BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY AND YOU NEED TO GOVERN.

>> Eric: HOW CLOSE DID GOVERNOR PAWLENTY COME TO RUNNING FOR SENATE.

>> NOT VERY CLOSE.

I THINK HE'S REALLY ENJOYING HIS RETIREMENT.

I SAW HIM LAST WEEK, WE PLAYED A ROUND OF GOLF.

>> Eric: HE GOT SOME CALLS?

>> SURE, THERE ARE LOTS OF REPUBLICANS AND UR REPUBLICAN FRIENDS ESPECIALLY THAT WOULD LOVE TO SEE PAWLENTY BACK AND OF COURSE HE'S THE LAST GUY WHO WON A STATEWIDE ELECTION FOR REPUBLICANS.

SO SURE, I GET THAT.

HE'S HAVING A GOOD TIME.

I DON'T REALLY SEE THAT AS SOMETHING IN THE CARDS.

>> Eric: ENTHUSIASM FOR A THIRD TERM FOR GOVERNOR WALZ?

>> WELL, ACTUALLY, I THINK THERE'S MASSIVE ENTHUSIASM.

YOU'RE SEEING, IF YOU WILL, A GOVERNOR WHO'S ON A NATURAL PLATFORM, AND SO HE'S ABLE TO RAISE NATIONAL RESOURCES, ACTIVATE A PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC BASE THAT WAS REALLY EXCITED ABOUT HIM A YEAR AGO.

AND SO I THINK HE'S GOING TO MAKE SOME OF THESE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES KIND OF LOOK J.V., IF YOU WILL.

>> Eric: MIKE LINDELL, MY PILLOW GUY, COMING BACK RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR?

>> PLEASE NO.

[ Laughter ] THERE ARE A LOT OF POSSIBLE CANDIDATES.

I GET IT.

AND YOU HAVE TO DMIT THAT OUR BENCH IS KIND OF THIN AND THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR US.

TIM WALZ HAS GOT ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS.

YOU KNOW, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THE FACT THAT I DON'T THINK HE DID HIMSELF MUCH GOOD IN TERMS OF HIS REPUTATION IN THIS STATE WITH THAT NATIONAL RUN.

HE'S GOT A LOT OF MONEY.

BUT HE'S DEALING WITH A SITUATION WHERE WE'VE SEEN FRAUD THE LIKES OF WHICH WE HAVE NEVER SEEN IN THIS STATE.

AND THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR HIM.

>> Cathy: ALYSEN, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> I, AGAIN, I THINK I'VE BEEN ON THIS SHOW BEFORE, I AM SURPRISED BY HOW GOOD TIM WALZ'S NUMBERS ARE AND THAT IS A GOOD THING.

HIS FUNDRAISING NUMBERS ARE GOOD.

HIS APPROVAL NUMBERS ARE GOOD.

AND IN FACT, LIKE, AMAZING AFTER TWO YEARS AND GOING INTO AN UNPRECEDENTED THIRD TERM, AND AGAIN, IF REPUBLICANS CAN PUT UP A CANDIDATE TO WIN STATEWIDE, WHICH THEY HAVE NOT DONE SINCE I HAVE BEEN IN HIGH SCHOOL, I WILL BE IMPRESSED.

>> THAT'S PAINFUL.

>> Eric: HOW DEEP IS THE SCHISM, THE CIVIL WAR BETWEEN D.S.A.

AND DHFL?

CHL IN MINNEAPOLIS?

>> THIS IS NOT NEW.

>> Eric: SPLASH ONTO 2026?

>> IT DOESN'T.

DONALD TRUMP IS THE ULTIMATE UNIFIER, WHEN DEMOCRATS ARE MAD AT EACH OTHER, THE PENICILLIN IS DONALD TRUMP.

>> Cathy: I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE FEDERAL SCHOENBERG FOREJUST A MOMENT IF I COULD.

WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF PERMANENT FEDERAL JOB CUTS AND PROGRAM CUTS, I AM WONDERING HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THIS MIGHT LAST?

>> YEAH, THIS LOOKS LIKE A LONG ONE, RIGHT?

AND THE LONGEST FEDERAL SCHOENBERG WAS IN TRUMP'S FIRST TERM, 35 DAYS.

AND I THINK IF YOU HAD TO BET RIGHT NOW, I WOULD BET ON THE OVER.

I WOULD BET THAT IT GOES MORE THAN 35 DAYS BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS PERFECT STORM THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

DEMOCRATS WANT THE FIGHT.

DEMOCRAT ACTIVISTS WANT CHUCK SCHUMER IN THERE FIGHTING AND PUSHING BACK AND REPUBLICANS ARE LARGELY NOT FANS OF THE GOVERNMENT.

SO WHEN THE GOVERNMENT'S SHUT DOWN, THEY THINK, HEY, ALL RIGHT, WE CAN GET Y WITHOUT ALL THIS.

AND 75% OF WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES HAPPENS ANYWAY.

AND SO THE IMPACTS, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE SIGNIFICANT, ARE SOMEWHAT LIMITED.

AND SO I DO THINK THAT BOTH SIDES ARE DUG IN.

YOU DON'T REALLY SEE ROOM FOR COMPROMISE.

I MEAN, REPUBLICANS ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP ON, YOU KNOW, ON OBAMACARE SUBSIDIES AND ON HEALTHCARE FOR IMMIGRANTS.

AND DEMOCRATS HAVE -- SEE NO REASON TO GIVE IN EITHER.

SO I THINK THIS COULD BE A LONG RUN.

>> I THINK DEMOCRATS DID THE MORALRY CORRECT THING, BUT TACTICALLY, THERE ARE REAL QUESTIONS.

WHAT'S THE END GAME FOR THE DEMOCRATS?

I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT IS.

SO IT'S GOING TO -- THERE'S REALLY AT A STALL.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO RGUE WITH YOU ABOUT WHO HAS THE MORAL HIGH GROUND BUT I DO THINK IN THE LONG RUN, IT'S THEIRS TO LOSE.

>> AND DEMOCRATS VOTED 13 TIMES FOR CONTINUING RESOLUTIONS IN THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.

REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS PASS A CLEAN C.R.

AND THEN WE CAN NEGOTIATE.

THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ALL OF THESE TERRIBLE OUTCOMES THAT YOU SEEM TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

WE HAVE IN THE THE END OF THE YEAR TO DEAL WITH THE OBAMACARE SUBSIDIES.

SURE, IT'S OVEMBER 1ST IS WHEN YOU GET OPEN ENROLLMENT.

BUT WE CAN FIND EXTENDERS ON THAT.

SO COME TO THE TABLE, PASS A CLEAN UPPED SIMPLE EXTENSION.

>> NOTHING CLEAN ABOUT TAKING HEALTHCARE AWAY FROM PEOPLE AND DOUBLING THE COST.

>> AND THERE HAS O BE TRUST AND THAT JUST DOES NOT EXIST.

>> Eric: YES OR NO, DID DO WE KNOW ABOUT WALZ'S RUNNING MATE?

>> MAYBE.

>> Cathy: MAYBE?

>> THERE WILL BE ONE.

>> Eric: MAKE SOME NEWS.

>> THERE WILL BE