>> Cathy: AS YOU HEARD MARY'S STORY AND OF COURSE THROUGHOUT THE SHOW, IT WAS ALREADY A BIG NEWS WEEK HERE IN MINNESOTA, EVEN BEFORE THE DEADLY I.C.E.

SHOOTING ON WEDNESDAY.

GOVERNOR'S RACE SHAKE-UP, CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS, NEW FRAUD REPORTS, NOW ANOTHER TRAGEDY IN THE TWIN CITIES, PLENTY ON THE PLATES OF OUR PANELISTS TONIGHT.

DEMOCRATS UP FIRST.

JEFF HAYDEN IS A LOBBYIST AND FORMER DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER IN THE STATE SENATE WHERE HE REPRESENTED THE DISTRICT WHERE RENEE GOOD WAS KILLED THIS WEEK.

TARRA ERICKSON IS A FORMER JOURNALIST AND LONGTIME LOBBYIST AT THE CAPITOL, WHO NOW WORKS AS A CONSULTANT.

REPUBLICANS ON THE COUCH, PAT GAROFALO IS A FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE AND CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE MINNESOTA GROCERS ASSOCIATION.

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, BRIAN McDANIEL, FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW A LOBBYIST, YES, HE'S A STAND-UP COMEDIAN.

THANK YOU ALL OR BEING WITH US ON A REALLY TOUGH WEEK.

SENATOR HAYDEN, DID IT COME AS ANY SURPRISE TO YOU THAT THE GOVERNOR DECIDED TO ABANDON THE RE-ELECTION BID?

>> I ON'T KNOW IF IT WAS A SURPRISE.

I MEAN, WE HAD STARTED HEARING -- I MEAN, WITH THE CONTINUING DRUM BEAT OF THE FRAUD ISSUES, STARTED GETTING LOUDER AND LOUDER, AND YOU STARTED HEARING FROM SOME DEMOCRATIC INSIDERS, EVEN INSIDE OF THE LEGISLATURE, THAT MAYBE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAPPEN.

I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN THAT DAY.

BUT IT WAS -- THERE WAS STARTING TO BECOME A LOUD DRUM BEAT INSIDE OF THE DEMOCRATIC, YOU KNOW, KIND OF INSIDERS THAT MAYBE THE GOVERNOR SHOULDN'T RUN.

>> Cathy: SURE HE HAVE BAILED OUT EARLIER, NOT EVEN RUN?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY SOME FOLKS THAT FEEL THAT WAY.

I'M GLAD THAT HE MADE THE DECISION THAT HE DID NOW.

I JUST THINK WITH THE STUFF AROUND THE FRAUD THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE TOO DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO -- HE WOULD JUST BE CHASING THAT ISSUE THE ENTIRE TIME, TRYING TO DEFEND HIS RECORD.

AND THERE IS A LOT OF GREAT STUFF, BUT WE ALSO HAVE A REALLY HORRIBLE ISSUE HAPPENING WITHIN DHS AND FRAUD.

SO I'M GLAD THAT HE DECIDED TO STEP DOWN.

>> Eric: BRIAN, IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, REPUBLICANS NOW NEED PLAN B, BECAUSE THE PLAN HAD BEEN TO RUN AGAINST WALZ AND NAIL THE FRAUD STUFF TO HIM.

WHAT NOW?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE FRAUD ISSUE IS STILL A VERY LEGITIMATE ONE, AND ONE THAT'S THE BEST ISSUE THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE TO RUN ON.

WHOEVER THE DEMOCRATS PUT UP WILL HAVE TO KIND OF SAYING EITHER WHAT DID THEY DO TO STOP THE FRAUD OR WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO.

NOW, CERTAINLY IF IT'S SENATOR KLOBUCHAR, IT'S MUCH HARDER TO PIN ANY OF THIS ON HER.

SHE CAN ACT LAW AND ORDER, SHE'S BEEN IN D.C., THIS HASN'T REALLY BEEN HER ISSUE.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE TO SAY, DEMOCRATS DID THIS, DEMOCRATS DID THAT, WHAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT UNDER DIFFERENT DEMOCRATS?

>> Eric: IF YOU WERE STRATEGIZING FOR THE REPUBLICANS, HOW WOULD YOU HANDLE IT ON THE GOVERNOR'S SIDE?

>> I MEAN, I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE GOVERNOR MADE THE RIGHT DECISION BY NOT RUNNING.

AND I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD GRANT HIM A LITTLE BIT OF GRACE.

THIS WAS NOT JUST ABOUT POLITICS.

LET'S REMEMBER, HIS NUMBER ONE LEGISLATIVE ALLY, MELISSA HORTMAN WAS MURDERED LAST SUMMER.

HE HAD TO MAKE A DECISION WHILE HE WAS STILL GRIEVING.

HE MADE THAT DECISION.

AND I THINK UPON REFLECTION AND HAVING MORE TIME, I THINK HE MADE THE RIGHT DECISION FOR HIS FAMILY, FOR HIS PARTY, FOR THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

SO I THINK WITH ALL THE FRAUD AND ALL THAT STUFF, LET'S REMEMBER, THESE ARE HUMAN BEINGS THAT REPRESENT US, WE SHOULD CUT THEM A LITTLE BIT OF SLACK.

WITH REGARDS TO REPUBLICANS, I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A CHOICE, FIRST OF ALL, AT THEIR ENDORSING CONVENTION, ARE THEY GOING TO NOMINATE SOMEONE WHO'S GOT A CHANCE AT WINNING?

ARE THEY GOING TO GO WITH LISA DEMUTH, KRISTIN ROBBINS, ARE THEY GOING TO GO THE MY PILLOW ROUTE?

[ Laughter ] PRETTY CUT-AND-DRY OPPORTUNITY THERE.

SO THE ADVICE IS, LET'S SEE IF REPUBLICANS UNIFY EARLY.

AND IF THEY DO, IT'S REALLY GOING TO BE ABOUT THIS ISSUE OF HETHER, DO YOU WANT A THIRD TERM FOR GOVERNOR WALZ?

DO YOU WANT TO HAVE ONE-PARTY TOTAL CONTROL, OR DO YOU WANT TO RESTORE BALANCE TO MINNESOTA?

DO YOU WANT TO HAVE CHECKS AND BALANCES AND WORKING TOGETHER?

AND THAT'S REALLY GOING TO BE THE REFERENDUM, REGARDLESS OF WHO THE DFL PUTS UP.

IF, IF REPUBLICANS CHOOSE A ACCEPTABLE ALTERNATIVE.

>> BECAUSE I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER FROM THE DEMOCRATS, YOU KNOW, BECOMES THE FRONTRUNNER OR THE NOMINEE, IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO , WHAT ARE THEY DOING DIFFERENT.

ARE THERE COMMISSIONERS THAT THEY'RE GOING O SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO RETAIN.

THOSE ARE HARD THINGS TO DO.

ONE OF THE MISSTEPS THAT KAMALA HARRIS MADE, SHE RAN AGAINST TRUMP, SHE DIDN'T RUN AGAINST BIDEN.

THE NEXT PERSON TO A CERTAIN EXTENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO RUN AGAINST THE WALZ ADMINISTRATION AND ARE THEY WILLING TO DO THAT?

SOME MIGHT NOT NEED TO, BUT SOME DEFINITELY WILL.

>> IF I COULD ADD ONE THING TO THIS, TOO.

FIRST OF ALL, I FORGOT TO SAY, CATHY, ERIC, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Cathy: YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> IS, REMEMBER THAT AS BIG OF AN ISSUE AS WE'RE DEALING WITH WITH FRAUD RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE NOT PEAKED, WE ARE AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS APEX.

MINNESOTA IS ABOUT TO ENTER A VERY TOUGH COUPLE OF YEARS.

WHERE YOU'RE HAVING UNPRECEDENTED RESOURCES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATING AND PROSECUTING WHAT IS AN PIDEMIC OF FRAUD IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

AND, REMEMBER THAT LOTS OF THINGS HAPPEN AND FADE OVER TIME.

WITH THE QUANTITIES OF MONEY THAT WERE INVOLVED HERE, WITH REGARDS TO THIS FRAUD, THEY LEAVE DIGITAL FOOTPRINTS.

AND WE'RE GOING TO BE FINDING OUT WHERE A LOT OF FOOTPRINTS WENT.

THIS IS NOT OING AWAY AND IT WILL BE SHAPING -- CURRENT EVENTS WILL BE SHAPING THE ELECTION.

>> Cathy: IT LOOKS LIKE MINNESOTA IS BEING PUNISHED, YOU ALL SAW THE STORY TODAY, USDA SUSPENDING ALL FEDERAL FUNDS TO MINNESOTA IMMEDIATELY.

>> RIGHT NOW DHS HAS CUT OFF PAYMENTS.

I REPRESENT DISABILITY SERVICE PROVIDERS, AND WE HAD MANY PROVIDERS ACROSS THE STATE WHO WERE NOT ABLE TO ACTUALLY MAKE PAYROLL LAST FRIDAY.

THIS IS GOING TO BE RIPPLING DOWN.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY FRUSTRATE ME, THOUGH, IS ABOUT THE FACT, YES, THERE IS FRAUD HERE, YES, IT SEEMS TO BE VERY COORDINATED, YES, WE NEED TO GET A HANDLE ON THIS, AND I THINK THAT SOME STEPS OF BREAKING UP DHS, LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT, THAT DEPARTMENT WAS SO MASSIVE, BUT WHAT I GET ANGRY ABOUT IS THE HYPOCRICY ON THE FACT THAT THERE IS SO MUCH FRAUD HAPPENING IN OTHER STATES, AND THE PRESIDENT HAS PARDONED THESE PEOPLE THAT COMMITTED FRAUD OF, LIKE, $1.6 BILLION IN MEDICAID IN FLORIDA, $1.4 BILLION OF MEDICARE FRAUD IN TEXAS, AND THESE PEOPLE GOT OUT BECAUSE SOMEBODY'S MOM GAVE A MILLION DOLLARS.

I MEAN, FRAUD IS FRAUD, AND IT'S BAD, REGARDLESS OF WHO IS DOING IT.

AND THAT'S THE PART THAT I THINK IS REALLY FRUSTRATING.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR SAID IN THAT LAST NEWS CONFERENCE, PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE, IN TERMS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN, I MEAN, WHY DO SOME REPUBLICANS HAVE, LIKE, WALZ DERANGEMENT SYNDROME?

I MEAN, HAVE YOU -- IT'S JUST SO CONCENTRATED ON TIM WALZ.

>> YEAH.

WELL, I THINK THAT THERE'S A BIT OF A DEFLECTION THERE.

I MEAN, WE HAVE DIVIDED GOVERNMENT UP UNTIL THE TRIFECTA A FEW YEARS AGO, AND NOW WE'RE BACK WITH DWIETDED GOVERNMENT.

SO WE WERE ALL THERE.

DIVIDED GOVERNMENT.

I THINK ALL OF US TRIED TO PASS BILLS THAT WE THOUGHT WERE GOING TO HELP PEOPLE.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE AN OVERSIGHT, YOU KNOW, OR DID HAVE AN OVERSIGHT ON THAT.

SO I DON'T THINK REPUBLICANS HAVE HAD CONVERSATION YET TO TALK ABOUT HOW THEY PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS, FOR THE LACK OF OVERSIGHT, AND THEY CERTAINLY HAVEN'T HAD A CONVERSATION TO SAY WHAT THEY WOULD DO.

SO I THINK IT'S AN EASY TARGET TO SIMPLY SAY THAT IT WAS THE GOVERNOR'S FAULT.

>> Eric: GO AHEAD.

>> OH, I WAS GOING TO SAY, ALSO, WALZ TAKES THE AIT.

I MEAN, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT HIM OR WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT MINNESOTA, HE ACTS, YOU KNOW, LATELY, AT LEAST, IN A KIND OF WILD MANNER.

I THINK THAT HE HAD A MORE CALM DEMEANOR THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE THE IMPACT, THEN PEOPLE WOULD FOCUS ON THER PEOPLE.

>> BRIAN NOTHING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW IS CALM.

>> NO.

>> I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE DYING IN THE STREETS.

THERE ARE PEOPLE LITERALLY SPRAYING CHEMICAL DETERRENTS AT OUR KIDS AND THERE ARE 30,000 STUDENTS IN MINNEAPOLIS WHO ARE NOT IN SCHOOL THIS WEEK.

BECAUSE OF THIS.

NONE OF THIS IS NORMAL.

AND I'M GLAD, I'M EXCITED TO SEE WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH OVER, YOU KNOW, OVER THE NEXT 11 MONTHS.

>> I HINK THAT JUST, AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO REALIZE THIS THAT OBVIOUSLY THIS HAS BEEN AN EXCEPTIONALLY CHALLENGING 18 MONTHS, NOT JUST THIS WEEK, BUT 18 MONTHS FOR MINNESOTA.

BUT THERE ARE SOME BRIGHT SPOTS OUT THERE.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT LEADERSHIP MEANS, THERE'S THIS FOCUS ON WHETHER PEOPLE AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH YOU.

MORE OF THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO IGNORE THAT AND THEY NEED TO BE RATING LEADERS ON THE FOLLOWING METRIC.

AND THAT IS, ARE YOU -- ARE THOSE LEADERS TRYING TO INFLAME THE PUBLIC, ANGER THEM, GET THEM -- YOU KNOW, PUT FUEL ON THE FIRE?

OR ARE THEY TRYING TO CALM THINGS DOWN?

ARE THEY TRYING TO SIMMER IT DOWN?

ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, I GOT TO TELL YOU, SECRETARY OF STATE STEVE SIMON, U.S.

SENATOR JOHN FEDER MAN, THEY'VE BEEN GREAT.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, LISA NEW COULD YOU SKI, SPEAKER LISA DEMUTH, THEY'VE BEEN GREAT.

THE THING IS, WE NEED MORE OF THAT LEADERSHIP TO CALM THINGS DOWN.

>> Eric: TO THE EXTENT THAT CAMPAIGNS ARE ABOUT THE FUTURE, WHO IN EITHER PARTY HAS A FORWARD-LOOKING AGENDA.

I HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH.

>> I THINK WHEN YOU GET INTO CRISIS STUFF, WHAT YOU FOCUS ON, AND SURELY THIS WEEK HAS BEEN A CRISIS.

YOU KNOW, I REPRESENT THE AREA THAT WE JUST, YOU KNOW, HAD THE TRAGEDY IN, SAME SIX BE BLOCKS AWAY FROM WHERE GEORGE FLOYD WAS, WE JUST SAW CHAIR GOMEZ, WHO'S HERE, REALLY PASSIONATELY AND ELOQUENTLY TALK ABOUT, THIS IS REAL, I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO THINK ABOUT, WHAT ARE WE GETTING READY TO DO, WHEN WE'RE HAVING TO SNEAK OUR KIDS IN THE BACK DOORS OF SCHOOL SO THAT I.C.E.

DOESN'T SNATCH THEM, RIGHT?

THAT WE'RE HAVING TO HAVE PEOPLE NOT BE ABLE TO GO OUTSIDE OR TAKE OUT THEIR GARBAGE FOR FEAR THAT I.C.E.

MAY GET THEM, RIGHT?

>> EVEN IF THEY'RE CITIZENS.

>> YOUR SKIN COLOR OR YOUR ACCENT, THAT KIND OF STUFF IS LIKE THIS POST UTOPIAN STUFF THAT WE WOULD SEE ON NETFLIX AND IT'S HAPPENING IN OUR COMMUNITIES RIGHT NOW.

SO I THINK IT'S HARD TO SET THE AGENDA ORWARD WHEN THAT KIND F SIEGE AND ASSAULT IS HAPPENING IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK THAT THIS WILL AFFECT THIS COMING SESSION, LEGISLATIVE SESSION?

>> WELL, IT HAS TO.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULDN'T.

>> PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND, LIKE HE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, CONTRARY TO SOME OF THE RHETORIC YOU'RE HEARING, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ISN'T GOING ANYWHEREMENT THIS IS FEDERAL LAW AND IT'S GOING TO BE ENFORCED IN MINNESOTA.

YOU CAN DISAGREE ABOUT THE STRATEGY AND THE TACTICS, BUT WE HAVE A MULTIHUNDRED-YEAR TRADITION BE IN THE COUNTRY, WHEN THE STATES SAY IT'S NOT GOING TO ENFORCE THE LAW, WHETHER IT'S THE WHITS CAN I REBELLION, CIVIL RIGHTS, WHEN STATES FIGHT WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ABOUT ENFORCING FEDERAL LAW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WINS.

AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO RECOGNIZE THAT.

PLEASE, PLEASE STOP GETTING INVOLVED.

YOU KNOW, CHASING AND FOLLOWING I.C.E.

AGENTS.

WORK ADMINISTRATIVELY, WORK TO TRY TO MAKE THIS A BETTER SITUATION.

BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GONNA STOP ENFORCING THE LAW.

>> WELL, PAT, BUT THERE'S ALSO BEEN A FINE LINE BETWEEN REBELLING AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DON'T TRAMPLE OVER YOUR RIGHTS.

AND, SO -- >> Eric: GOTTA GO.

>> I'M SORRY, ERIC.

>> Eric: WE GOTTA