>> ERIC: AS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING FOR MUCH OF THE HOUR, LAWMAKERS HAVE LESS THAN 77 HOURS BEFORE THEY HAVE TO ADJOURN THE 2023 LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

EARLIER PROCLAMATIONS BY LEADERS THAT THEY WOULD BE ENDING EARLY THIS YEAR HAVE LONG DISAPPEARED AND NOW IT WILL BE THE USUAL RACE TO THE FINISH.

HERE TO HELP US ASSESS THESE FINAL HOURS, A GROUP OF ESTEEMED POLITICAL ANALYSTS, ALL OF WHOM KNOW END OF SESSION ACTIVITIES WELL.

DFLERS UP FIRST TONIGHT.

JEFF HAYDEN IS A FORMER SENATE LEADER WHO REMEMBERS THOSE LATE NIGHTS AND LONG HOURS WELL.

WINTANA MELEKIN IS BACK, SHE'S A DFL ACTIVIST WHO HAS SPENT MANY HOURS UP AT THE CAPITOL THIS SESSION.

REPUBLICANS ON THE COUCH TONIGHT, FORMER SENATE LEADER MICHELLE BENSON WHO MAY OR MAY NOT MISS THOSE LATE NIGHTS IN MAY.

GREGG PEPPIN IS HERE, FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW A CONSULTANT.

SENATOR BENSON, IF YOU WERE STRATEGIZING FOR HE 2024 LEGISLATIVE CAMPAIGN AS A REPUBLICAN, WHERE WOULD YOU SAY HE DEMOCRATS WOULD BE MOST VULNERABLE?

>> I WOULD START TALKING ABOUT THE SIZE ND SCOPE OF GOVERNMENT.

NOT IN THOSE TERMS, OBVIOUSLY, BUT GOVERNMENT HAS GOTTEN UNBELIEVABLY BIG IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

IT'S TAKING MORE FROM MINNESOTANS, OUR GDP IS GOING TO SLOW DOWN, OUR EMPLOYMENT IS GOING TO SLOW DOWN.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE RESOURCES LEAVING THIS STATE BECAUSE OF THE ACTIVITIES GOING ON HERE.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE CASE FOR TWO MORE YEARS OF DEMOCRATIC CONTROL OF THE STATE HOUSE?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW, I'VE HEARD MICHELLE SAY THAT A LOT AND IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN SO I THINK THAT WHERE THERE WERE UNMET AND PENT-UP NEEDS, THAT GOVERNOR WALZ AND THE LEGISLATURE HAVE ADDRESSED, EVERYTHING FROM POLICY ISSUES ALONG WITH THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MICHELLE APARTMENT I WORKED ON WHICH IS LIKE IN HUMAN SERVICE WORLD, A SYSTEM UPGRADES AND MOD DERNIZATION, THAT COSTS MONEY AND THEY HAVE THE MONEY IN WHICH TO DO THAT.

SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT THEY'RE DOING AND I THINK THAT THE JOB NUMBERS ARE GOING TO BE GOOD.

I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST SO I CAN'T TELL YOU ABOUT GDP BUT I THINK THINGS ARE WORKING WELL.

>> MINNESOTA'S GDP HAS BEEN LAGGING FOR OVER A DECADE AND THIS ISN'T GOING TO FIX IT.

>> I WOULD TALK ABOUT THE FRIDAY IF HE CAN TAKE BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS, THE SPEAKER AND THE GOVERNOR HAVE BEEN BRAGGING ABOUT THE TRIFECTA, AND I WOULD TALK ABOUT THE TRIFECTA OF PAIN THAT'S BEEN INFLICTED UPON MINNESOTANS THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION, INCLUDING HUGE TAX INCREASES IN SPITE OF A HUGE BUDGET SURPLUS.

TURNING THEIR BACK ON SENIORS, HOSPITALS AND NURSING HOMES, AND FAILURE TO REFORM GOVERNMENT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, AS SENATOR SAID, A HUGE, HUGE GROWTH IN GOVERNMENT.

>> YEAH, I WOULD SAY IT'S THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THE POLICIES THAT FOLKS HAVE BEEN BEGGING FOR DURING THIS GRIDLOCK AND DURING REPUBLICAN CONTROL.

WE'RE TALKING, YOU KNOW, YOU HEAR THE RHETORIC OF WE'RE AGAINST NURSING HOMES BUT, YET, WE'RE WORKING ON PACKAGES FOR NURSING.

WE SAY THAT WE'RE AGAINST HOSPITALS BUT WE'RE FUNDING HEALTH CARE AND SO, REALLY, I THINK WHAT FOLKS ARE TRYING TO SAY IS THAT THE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T GIVE A BUNCH OF CARVE-OUTS TO MAJOR CORPORATIONS BUT THEY ACTUALLY STOOD UP FOR THE MINNESOTANS, THE EVERYDAY WORKING FOLKS THAT MAKE THE ECONOMY RUN AND I THINK THESE ISSUES ARE REALLY, REALLY POPULAR.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, YOU'VE HEARD THE WORDS TRANSFORMATIONEABLE AND HISTORIC A LOT DURING THIS SESSION BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK MIGHT BE THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES FROM SOME OF THE LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN PASSED, THAT WE MIGHT SEE IN THE MONTHS TO COME?

>> I THINK THAT THE AMOUNT -- WITH HE GROWTH OF 40% GROWTH IN THE STATE BUDGET.

I MEAN, THAT'S JUST -- NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR STATE SO YOU'VE GOT THIS HUGE BASE OF SPENDING THAT'S GOING TO BE THERE AND THAT IF THE ECONOMY DOES TAKE A DOWNTURN, WHICH MANY ECONOMISTS ARE SUSPECTING IT MIGHT IN THE SECOND HALF OF YEAR, OR THE THIRD QUARTER, HOW ARE WE GOING TO SUSTAIN THIS GOING FORWARD.

WE HAVE HUGE TAX INCREASES NOW, IT WILL HAVE TO BE EVEN LARGER GOING FORWARD IF WE WANT TO SUSTAIN THESE HUGELY INCREASED LEVELS OF SPENDING.

>> Eric: SENATOR HAYDEN.

>> Cathy: I ASKED THAT QUESTION BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, NO LEGISLATION IS PERFECT, RIGHT, YOU PASS SOMETHING ND ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE ARE SOMETIMES UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

>> YEAH, I MEAN I THINK THAT SOME WORRY THAT BECAUSE OF THE PENT-UP DEMAND AND A LOT OF THINGS THEY HAVE TO GET THROUGH THAT WE'LL SPENDS NEXT YEAR SPEND SOME TIME MAKING SURE THE THINGS WE DID ARE GOING TO WORK.

I STILL DON'T THINK THAT'S THE WRONG THING TO DO, I JUST THINK IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO WORK THOSE THINGS OUT.

THAT'S KIND OF WHAT A POLICY YEAR IS -- THEY'RE GOING TO GET THEIR BUDGET DONE, BY THE WAY, IF WE CAN GET THAT G.O.

BILL DONE THAT THE LEADER SAID WE MIGHT -- >> Eric: THE BONDING BILL WITH BONDS.

>> WITH THE CASH, T FREES UP A LOCALITIES OF MONEY TO DO THE NURSING HOME WORK.

SO I THINK LEADER JOHNSON KNOWS THAT AND I'LL WORK ON THAT.

BUT BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, I THINK, YEAH, THERE ALWAYS ARE A WAY IN WHICH WE COME BACKS NEXT YEAR AND WE FIGURE OUT WHAT DID OR DIDN'T WORK AND WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THAT.

>> NONE OF THE FIXES EVER GET LESS EXPENSIVE SO MNsure, WE WARNED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THIS ISN'T GOING TO WORK.

$400 MILLION OF ADDITIONAL SPENDING.

AND THEY LEFT THE TAX AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL YOU'RE ALLOWED UNDER THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

THE FIXES NEVER GET LESS EXPENSIVE.

WE ARE LIKELY GOING TO HAVE A RECESSION.

WE ARE GOING TO FACE HEADWINDS IN MINNESOTA THAT NO OTHER STATE HAS BECAUSE WE ARE GOING FURTHER LEFT THAN ANYBODY BUT CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK, I WOULD SAY.

WE LOOK AT WHAT ILLINOIS IS GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW, THE DEFICIT THAT THEY'RE FACING BECAUSE OF POLICY DECISIONS THEY MADE LESS THAN TWO YEARS AGO, NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO GET LESS EXPENSIVE AND IF THE ECONOMY SLOWS DOWN, WHICH EVERYBODY EXPECTS IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEAR FUTURE, WE'RE GOING TO END UP WITH DEFICITS AND SO INSTEAD OF FUNDING NURSING HOMES OUT AFTER A $19 BILLION SURPLUS, THEY'RE HOLDING HEM HOSTAGE FOR A BONDING BILL.

>> I WANT TO TAKE A SECOND TO RESPONDS TO THAT.

YOU'RE HEARING THIS RHETORIC THAT EVERYTHING IS GOING TO FALL APART BUT THIS REVENUE THAT WE'RE GETTING IS FROM A TAX BILL SETS IN THE DAYTON ADMINISTRATION.

WE WOULDN'T HAVE THIS REVENUE UNLESS WE RESTRUCTURED OUR TAX SYSTEM SO THIS COMES FROM TAXES, THIS COMES FROM FOLKS COLLECTIVELY TACK CARE OF EACH OTHER AND THIS IDEA THAT WE'VE DESIGNED A SYSTEM THAT'S SET TO FAIL, WE'RE LITERALLY LOOKING AT IT SUCCEED.

>> ACTUALLY- >> LET ME FINISH.

ONE THING I ALSO WANT TO ADD IS WE'RE ALWAYS SAYING NURSING HOMES, NURSING HOMES, THERE'S $17 BILLION SPENT IN GREAT PROJECTS THAT WILL HAVE MASSIVE BENEFIT.

>> SO I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE DIDN'T GET DONE, LUCKILY WE HAVE ANOTHER YEAR TO DO THAT AND WE'LL LIKELY WIN BACK TWO WHO ARE AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH MORE AND I WANT TO PUSH BACK ON THE IDEA THAT WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING BECAUSE WE HAD SOME THINGS THAT WE'RE STILL WORKING ON.

>> MOST OF THE SURPLUS MONEY IS ONE-TIME CARRY-FORWARD.

THERE AS A LOT OF COVID MONEY THAT PUSHED INTO OUR ECONOMY.

WE'RE SEEING INFLATION WHICH IS GOING TO UMP UP TAX REF NEWS.

THIS IS NOT PERMANENT.

AND ON TOP OF IT, THEY'RE PUTTING IN TAB FEES, PUTTING IN GAS TAXES, WHICH ARE GOING TO HURT THOSE PEOPLE AT THE MID AND BOTTOM OF OUR ECONOMY, $260 REBATE CHECKS I SAW CAPPED AT $150,000 HOUSEHOLD, THAT'S A COP AND A SOCIAL WORKER, GETS 260 BACK BUT THEY GET GAS TAXES FOR THEIR COMMUTE.

>> Eric: I WANT TO GO BACK TO MARK DAYTON.

YOU WANTS TO PARTY WITH ME BECAUSE I READ GOVERNOR DAYTON'S STATE-OF-THE-STATE ADDRESS, BACK FROM 2013, WHEN THE TRIUMPH VEER IT WAS ON HIS SIDE.

WERE YOU THERE?

>> I LISTENED, I DIDN'T READS IT BUT I LISTENED.

>> Eric: YOU BOTH WERE THERE AND IF YOU LISTENED TO THAT SPEECH, THERE'S NOT ONE COMMENT ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE, NOTHING ABOUT DIVERSITY, NOTHING ABOUT ACHIEVEMENT GAPS, SOCIAL JUSTICE, ALL OF THAT STUFF.

NOT THERE, IT WAS A RUDY PERPICH, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS SPEECH.

AND I THINK THE DEMOCRATS IN 2013 WANTED TO GO SLOW AND BE MODERATE TO KEEP CONTROL.

BUT THIS GROUP IS DOING DAMN THE TORPEDOES, FULL SPEED AHEAD.

ISN'T THERE A LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN PHILOSOPHY FROM THE LAST TIME TEN YEARS AGO?

>> A DIFFERENT GROUP THERE.

SO THERE ISN'T SOME OF THOSE MORE ROD RATE DEMOCRATS, THERE IS A DIFFERENT GROUP THERE BUT THIS GROUP LEARNED FROM THE LAST GROUP AND I WAS THIS LEADERSHIP AT THE TIME AND THEY LEARNED LET'S GO SLOW, TRY TO MANAGE THE CAMPAIGNS AND THEY LOST, AND THEY LOST THE NEXT ELECTION, AND THEN IT WAS GRIDLOCK.

AND THEN IT TOOK US TEN YEARS TO GET GO BACK.

SO THIS GROUP IS DIFFER, IT'S MORE DIVERSE.

I SHARED WITH YOU GUYS EARLIER TODAY THAT THAT WAS THE NEXT YEAR WHEN WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT EQUITY AND DIRECT PPROPRIATION IN THE COMMUNITIES THAT WERE LAGGING BEHIND.

WE KIND OF STARTED THAT CYCLE.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE RAN BECAUSE OF THAT AND IT'S A MUCH DIFFERENT GROUP THERE THAT UNDERSTANDS THAT IF OU WAIT, THAT IF YOU WAIT, YOU MAY NOT GET THE CHANCE TO DO IT.

>> Eric: IS THE FAST PACE GOOD POLITICS?

>> IT IS FOR THE DFL AND THEIR CONSTITUENT CITY GROUPS BUT IT'S NOT FOR MINNESOTA.

THERE ARE SO MAJOR TAXES, SALES TAX, GAS TAX, MOTOR VEHICLE, UBEER TAXES, FAMILY LEAVE TAX AND OTHERS.

IN SPEATS OF A $19.5 BILLION SURPLUS.

IT'S UNCONSCIONABLE THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO RAISE TAXES BY SOME ESTIMATES $9 BILLION WHEN YOU HAVE $17.5BILLION -- >> I DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING JEFF JUST SAID ABOUT THE RISE IN DIVERSITY.

IT'S NOT JUST A RISE IN DIVERSITY, IT'S A RISE OF A REFLECTIVE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE.

THE STATE DEMOGRAPHICS ARE CHANGING.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING ARE CHANGING.

THEIR WANTS AND NEEDS ARE CHANGING AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEK AT THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

AND LET'S TALK ABOUT TAXES.

I'M NOT HERE TO SAY TAXES ARE INHERENTLY BAD AND EVIL AND GIVE IT THIS TERRIBLE NAME.

THEY'RE WHAT MAKE OUR STATES RUN AND THEY ARE ESSENTIAL AND DEMOCRATS HAVE PUT TOGETHER GOOD TAXES THAT MAKE SENSE.

AND ONE THING I WANT TO GO AHEAD AND ADD IS THAT NOT ALL OF THESE HAVE PASSED, THEY'RE STILL NEGOTIATING IT, THEY STILL HAVE NEXT YEAR, IF NEEDS BE, AND ALSO ONE LAST THING IS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FAMILY LEAVE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT GAS TAX TO PAY FOR OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES.

WHAT IS THE STRATEGY OF HOW WE'RE GOING O PAY FOR THIS LONG TERM IF WE'RE SAYING, OH, THIS IS ONE-TIME FUNDING, WHAT'S THE STRATEGY FOR FIVE YEARS FROM NOW?

>> THERE IS A $19 BILLION SURPLUS.

GOVERNMENT IS GROWING FASTER THAN EVEN THE PROJECTION.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE TALES ON THIS BUDGET.

AND SEE HOW THEY BALANCE IN THE TAILS.

I THINK THAT'S WHY YOUR TAX BILL'S NOT CLOSED UP, IT IS HHH BILLING IS NOT CLOSED UP AND LET'S GO BACK TO 2013 WONG SECONDS.

DO YOU REMEMBER THE PROMISES OF WE'RE GOING TO GIVE COUNTY PROGRAM AID AND LGA, WE'RE GOING DO ALL THESE THINGS TO LOWER TAXES, LOWER PROPERTY TAXES FOR MINNESOTANS?

THAT WAS THE SALE THAT WAS GOING ON IN 2013.

HOW MANY OF YOU OUT THERE GOT LOWER PROPERTY TAXES?

I JUST I JUST WANT TO ASK AND -- IS THAT DURABLE REDUCTION?

>> BOUGHT HOW MANY PEOPLE'S PROPERTY VALUE GREW?

THAT'S A FALSE NARRATIVE, MICHELLE.

>> THE POINT S YOU CAN'T SAY WE'RE DOING ALL THIS TO LOWER PROPERTY TAX, WE'RE DOING ALL THIS TO REDUCE PROPERTY AND NEVER GO BACK AND HAVE TO DELIVER.

>> BUT IN THE VALUE OF YOUR HOUSE GOES UP, THE PROPERTY TAX GOES UP.

>> AMOUNT LEVIES GO UP.

DID St. PAUL INCREASE THEIR LEVY?

DID MINNEAPOLIS INCREASE THEIR TAXES?

DID HENNEPIN COUNTY -- >> Eric: SEE, THIS IS UNFAIR, BECAUSE YOU TWO HAVE PRACTICED THIS ON THE SENATE FLOOR.

[Laughter] GUNS, DIMINISHING AS A TWICE -- DIVISIVE ISSUE.

>> CERTAINLY THE DEMOCRATS GOT THAT THEIR WAY THIS YEAR, I THINK ITS WILL ALWAYS BE AN ISSUE.

>> Cathy: I'M ASSUMING THEY'LL FINISH ON TIME ON MONDAY.

>> YEAH, THEY'LL INISH ON TIME AND I WANT TO SHOUT OUT TO ALL THE LEADERS, THEY DID FANTASTIC, ESPECIALLY MY GOOD FRIENDS.

IT WAS GOOD TO SEIZE KARI DZIEDZIC.

>> A LITTLE BIT OF WARNING, THE -- I SLEPT IN THE ROOM THE LAST TIME SO HHS IS STILL OPEN.

>> THEY'LL GETS IT OFF.

>> YOU WERE NOT SLEEPING IN ROOM 237.

>> I KNOW WE'RE WRAPPING UP, I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE A MOMENT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT GUNS AND WHETHER THEY'RE CONTROVERSIAL.

FOLKS ARE DYING, THE GUN BILLS WE PASS ARE AMAZING AND WILDLY POPULAR.

>> ERIC: WITH ALL THE POLITICS TO COVER THIS WEEK, WE'VE RUN LONG SO WE'LL HAVE OUR INDEX FILE SECTION FOR YOU NEXT WEEK.

WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH TIME LEFT FOR SOME QUICK HOUSEKEEPING AND A BIT OF SHOW-CLOSING MUSIC.

DON'T FORGET YOU CAN WATCH LEGISLATIVE ACTION ON THE STATEWIDE MINNESOTA CHANNEL AS THEY WRAP UP THEIR WORK BETWEEN NOW AND MONDAY.

THAT'S THE SAME CHANNEL WHERE YOU'LL FIND THIS YEAR'S FINAL EPISODE OF "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL."

TUNE IN WEDNESDAY NIGHT AS MARY LOOKS BACK AT THIS YEAR'S SESSION WITH A COUPLE OF FORMER LAWMAKERS.

ARE YOU ENJOYING OUR COVERAGE OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION THIS YEAR?

HEAD TO TPT.ORG/ALMANACSURVEY AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK BY FILLING OUT OUR ANNUAL "ALMANAC" SURVEY.

OKAY, TIME FOR THAT SHOW-CLOSING MUSIC I PROMISED YOU 45 SECONDS AGO.

IT WAS THIS WEEK BACK IN 2009 THAT TRUMPETER CHUCK LAZARUS AND FRIENDS PERFORMED HERE IN STUDIO B.

TAKE A LISTEN AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

BE CAREFUL.

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