♪♪ >> CATHY: ANOTHER BIG NATIONAL POLITICAL WEEK, AS WE'VE NOTED THROUGHOUT THE SHOW TONIGHT.

SEVERAL MEMBERS OF MINNESOTA'S CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION FEATURED PROMINENTLY IN THE HEADLINES.

LET'S JUMP RIGHT IN WITH THIS WEEK'S POLITICAL PANEL.

DEMOCRATS ON THE COUCH TONIGHT, JAVIER MORILLO IS A LONGTIME PARTY ACTIVIST AND FORMER NATIONAL COMMITTEE MAN.

ABOU AMARA, FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW ATTORNEY.

REPUBLICANS JOINING US TONIGHT, ANNETTE MEEKS, FORMER STAFFER TO U. S. HOUSE SPEAKER NEWT GINGRICH, NOW HEAD OF THE FREEDOM FOUNDATION OF MINNESOTA.

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, BRIAN MCDANIEL, FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, NOW LOBBYIST AND STAND-UP COMEDIAN.

ABOU, ET'S TALK ABOUT DEAN PHILLIPS.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: HE'S RUNNING TO PREVENT DONALD TRUMP FROM BEING ELECTED.

I'M WONDERING, HOW, HOW IS BEING AFRAID OF SOMETHING A WINNING STRATEGY?

>> YEAH, I'M NOT GOING TO LIE, SOMEONE WHO'S KNOWN HIM FOR A LONG TIME, HAS RESPECTED HIM IS SOMEWHAT CONFUSED BY THE ROLL-OUT.

THERE'S CONTRADICTIONS IN TERMS OF THE MESSAGING, AND THERE'S NOT A CLEAR THEORY OF THE PATH.

I MEAN, HOW DO YOU ENDS UP GETTING THE DELEGATES YOU NEED TO WIN?

YOU'RE NOT ON THE BALLOT IN NEVADA SO BOUNCING AROUND THE COUNTRY.

SO THE ROLL-OUT IS CONFUSING TO SAY THE LEAST.

>> Cathy: JAVIER.

>> LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THE SHOW, I I WENT IN HARD AND SAID HE WAS EMBARRASSING HIMSELF.

NOW HE'S AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE COUNTRY.

TOM EMPTOR WAS SPEAR DESIGNATE FOR A FEW HOURS AND THEN THIS LAUNCH.

HE HAS AN AN ADVISOR STEVEN SCHMIT WHO'S NOT ONLY THE PERSON MOST SINGULARLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HOISTING SARAH PALEN ON TO THE UNITED STATES AND THE WORLD BUT INCOMPETENT AND WHICH WE SAW IN TODAY'S ROLL-OUT.

I JUST -- I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CONGRESSMAN PHILLIPS IS THINKING AND IT'S JUST EMBARRASSING.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO OUR REPUBLICAN FRIENDS THINK?

>> WELL, AS A SMALL D DEMOCRAT, I MEAN, COMPETITION IS GOOD AND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A PRINCIPLED STANCE SAYING THAT EITHER THE POLICIES OR THE COMPETENCIES OF THE PRESIDENT AREN'T THERE, AND THAT'S A DANGER TO LOSE TO POTENTIALLY DONALD TRUMP OR NIKKI HALLE, THEN THAT MAKES SENSE, AND I APPLAUD IT.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, KNOWING DEAN A LITTLE BIT, I -- YEAH, I WOULDN'T HAVE PEGGED HIM FOR A VANITY PROJECT AND THIS REACTION A LITTLE BIT OF THAT.

HE'S NOT STUPID, HE'S NOT CRAZY SO WHAT IS THIS?

AND HE MIGHT IMPRESS US IN THE COMING WEEKS OR MONTHS BUT IT'S NOT LOOKING GOOD RIGHT NOW.

>> I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT HIS PATH TO VICTORY STHAT'S WHAT I LOOK AT AND SAY I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE DOING THIS AND WHY YOU'RE DOING THIS WITH A REJECTED REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT THAT'S KIND OF A BOTTOM FEEDSER IN OUR WORLD OF REPUBLICAN WORKERS, WHY WOULD YOU HIRE SOMEBODY LIKE THAT IF OU'RE RUNNING TRULY AS A DEMOCRAT?

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT'S YOUR PRINCIPLED OBJECTION TO THE PRESIDENT OTHER THAN YOU THINK HE'S TOO OLD?

YOU VOTED WITH HIM 100% OF THE TIME.

I DON'T THINK THIS LOOKS VERY PRINCIPLED.

>> Eric: BUT THIS IS A PLACE TO SEND A MESSAGE.

NEW HAMPSHIRE'S DELEGATES AREN'T GOING TO COUNT.

THE NEW HAMPSHIRE IS UPSET BECAUSE SOUTH CAROLINA IS NOW THE FIRST IN THE NATION T MATTED BY NEW ENGINEER IN SOUTH CAROLINA, BIDEN IS NOT ON THE BALLOT IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

IF DEMOCRATS WANT TO SEND A MESSAGE WITHOUT MUCH CONGRESS, WON'T NEW HAMPSHIRE BE THE PLACE?

>> BUT THINK OF HOW THIS PLAYS OUT.

SOUTH CAROLINA WILL BEING FIRST, IT WILL BE AN OVERWHELMING VICTORY FOR THE INCOMING PRESIDENT.

IT -- WHICH IS BLACK VOTE TEST, ARTICULARLY BLACK WOMEN AND PEOPLE ARE ALREADY EXPRESSING FRUSTRATION WITH DEAN PHILLIPS IS JUST SKIPPING OVER BLACK VOTERS.

AGAIN, THE BACKBONE OF THE PARTY, TO THEN, LIKE, IT WILL BE A NON -- IT WILL BE A NON-HEADLINE BY THEN SO THE FACT THAT IN A CONTEST THAT -- IN A PLACE THAT BIDEN IS NOT COMPETING, THAT HE GETS DELEGATES, WHO CARES.

>> Eric: McCARTY, 1948, ANOTHER MINNESOTAN, WINS THE PRIMARY.

>> SOME PEOPLE ARE MAKING THAT COMPARISON, ONE OF THE 6 WAS THERE WAS A MASSIVE WAR U AN A NATIONAL PROTEST, YOU HAD EVERYBODY SAYING THEY WANTED OUT OF THE WAR.

THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUNDS WERE VERY DIFFERENT AT THE TIME.

YOU ALSO HAD THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE BACK DROP OF THAT.

HERE YOU EVER WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY A VERY POPULAR PRESIDENT WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED A LOOT OF LEGISLATIVE THINGS, AND SO THE CONTRAST HERE, I JUST THINK THE '68 EXAMPLE IS SO WILDLY DIFFERENT THAN WHERE WE ARE.

>> AND IT'S NOT LIKE DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE SOMETHING TO BE AFRAID OF.

WE'RE POLLING TOO FAR OUT AND POLLS ARE LESS AND LESS -- LESS AND LESS OF USE TO US BUT THE POLLING FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN IS REALLY, REALLY BAD.

AND AT A TIME WHERE MOST OF US ARE WALKING AROUND SAYING, NOBODY LIKES DONALD TRUMP, WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS, I MEAN, AT WORST IT'S KIND OF 50-50 AND IN SOME KEY STATES, LIKE PENNSYLVANIA, DONALD TRUMP IS PREDICTED TO BE WAY UP.

>> RIGHT.

>> THAT'S AGAIN WHAT DOESN'T MAKE ESSENTIAL.

ALL HE'S DOING, HE KEEPS SAYING HE'S DOING THERE TO PREVENTS DONALD TRUMP FROM BECOMING PRESIDENT.

REALLY, HE'S DOING THE OPPOSITE, STRENGTHENING TRUMPED CAUSING A SCHISM IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

>> Eric: JAVIER, DO YOU CONSIDER EMMER A RHINO IN -- >> THAT WAS A BIZARRE MOMENT.

THE TOM EMMER I KNOW, THAT WE NO IN MINNESOTA IS A VERY CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN.

I JUST THINK IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW EXTREME HE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS GOTTEN, THAT NOW IT'S THE THEIR HIGHEST LEADING ELECTED OFFICIAL WAS NOT JUST SOMETHING WHO WANTS TO BAN GAZE MARRIAGE, WANTS TO BAN GAY SEX, SOMEONE WHO WANTS A NORMAL ABORTION BAN, WHO IS AN ELECTION DENIER.

WE HAD PEOPLE LIKE CONGRESSMAN KEN BUCK GOT A LOT OF POSITIVE PRESS FOR SAYING HE WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR JIM JORDAN BECAUSE HE'S AN ELECTION DENIER AND THEN HE TURNS AROUND AND VOTES FOR THE GUY WHO WAS THE ARCHITECT WIN CONGRESS OF THAT ELECTION DIE NILISM.

IT'S BONKERS.

>> Eric: YOU'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH SPEAKERS IN WASHINGTON.

LEAGUES YOUR VIEW OF THIS.

>> >> '6" INDEED, BESIDE THE CRAZY EIGHT THAT STARTED ALL THIS, IT'S BEEN A BLACK MARK ON THE REPUBLIC TO BE VERY HONEST.

I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY UNFORTUNATE WHAT HAPPENED TO SPEAKER McCARTHY, DIDN'T DESERVE THIS AND I DON'T WANT THAT, I JUST WANT TO PUT IN A PLUG FOR OUR FRIEND AND I THINK ALL OF US CONSIDER TOM EMMER A FRIEND, I THOUGHT HE DID REMARKABLY WELL AND HAD SUCH CLASS THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE HORRIBLE PROCESS.

HE DESERVED SO MUCH BETTER AND I REALLY WISH HE WERE HE SPEAKER BECAUSE I THINK HE WOULD DO A LOT BETTER JOB BUT AS IT IS I'M VERY PROUD OF TOM.

>> Cathy: BUT YET, TOM EMMER SAID IT WAS THE GREATEST EXPERIENCE?

OUR REPUBLIC?

>> WELL, HERE'S WHAT I WOULD SAY, ONCE AGAIN, AS A SMALL D DEMOCRAT, I THINK THE COMPETITION IS GOOD.

AND THIS IS DUE PROCESS, THIS IS -- THIS IS DEMOCRACY.

WE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND OR PARTICULARLY LIKE THE OUTCOME.

>> Cathy: LOOK AT THE MESS, THOUGH, TO MOST PEOPLE.

>> IT'S A MESS BUT IT'S A MESS THAT WAS UNAVOIDABILITY ONCE YOU ALLOWED ONE MEMBER TO MAKE A -- A -- TO RECALL A SPEAKER.

SO IN THAT RESPECT, I UNDERSTAND WHAT TOM IS SAYING AND I AGREE WITH HIM TO A CERTAIN POINT, AND I THINK, LIKE ANNETTE SAID, I'M VERY PROUD OF HOW TOM EMMER HANDLED THIS.

AND I DON'T WANT THAT.

I DON'T WANT THIS FOR TOM EMMER.

MY FRIEND TOM SHOULDN'T BE SPEAKER FOR A WHILE AND THEN HAVE TO BE BEHOLDEN TO THE CRAZIES IN THAT GROUP.

>> LOOK, I THINK TOM EMMER IS A TRADITION 1990ED CONNING SEVER ACTIVE REPUBLICAN AT A TIME WHEN THE MAGA REPUBLICANS ARE IN CONTROL, AND SO I ACTUALLY THINK THE AVALANCHE MIGHT NOT BE OVER HERE.

I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE POSSIBLY A PRIMARY CHALLENGE TO HIM, YOU'RE ALREADY SEEING IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, HERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME COMPARISONS TO SOME REPUBLICANS ELSEWHERE, I DON'T WANT TO POINT AT LIZ CHENEY AND OTHERS, BUT THAT'S AN EXAMPLE.

IF YOU ARE SEASON AS A PARIAH WITHIN YOUR OWN PARTY, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THIS MAGA CONTEXT, YOU'RE TARGET POTENTIALLY TO BE PRIMARIED.

>> Eric: PRESIDENT TRUMP IS STILL POWERFUL.

>> YEAH, I DON'T THINK EMMER LAST TO WORRY ABOUT HIS DISTRICT, AND I THINK TOM CAME OUT AHEAD ON THIS THING, GETTING A NICE NATIONAL AUDIENCE TO LOOK AT HIM AND HIS THOUGHTSFUL WAY OF -- >> TOM EVER LOST THE ACE IN TWO TWEETS FROM TRUMP.

IF TRUMP DECIDES HE WANTS EMMER TO BE GONE, HE'LL BE GONE.

>> YOU WOULD THINK THE OTHER 216 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS DON'T VOTES IN THE DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA.

>> AND TOM HAS A VERY CONSERVATIVE REPUTATION AND A LOT OF THE REASONS THAT HE'S BEING ATTACKED BY THE MAGA PEOPLE AND DONALD TRUMP ARE THINGS THAT WOULD PLAY VERY WELL FOR TOM EMMER IF HE CLOSE TO RUN FOR SOMETHING ELSE SOME DAY BECAUSE HE CAN POINT TO THE TWEETS, IF ANYONE SAYS YOU'RE JUST A TRUMPTER, NO, I'M NOT, THAT GUY DOESN'T LIKE ME AT ALL.

>> Cathy: WE WERE STALKING ABOUT THE EMMER BEING PRIMARY.

WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN HERE GOING BACK TO DEAN PHILLIPS, SO HE TOLD CLADS HARTMAN TODAY, IF HE LOSES, HE PLANS TO RUN FOR REELECTION.

WOULDN'T HE -- >> I HAVE TO MANIFEST MIZE DESIRE, CONGRESSMAN STEVE SIMON, THAT'S WHO I THINK STEVE SIMON, OUR SECRETARY OF STATE WOULD BE A FANTASTIC CANDIDATE.

I HOPE HE RUNS AND I HOPE HE SAYS HE'LL RUN NO MATTER WHAT.

BECAUSE, FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE A LOT OF DEMOCRATS IN DISTRICT THAT ARE VERY UPSET.

AND IT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST THAT, LIKE, PEOPLE RUN FOR ONE EAT AND ENDORSEMENTS, PEOPLE -- DEMOCRATS WILL HOLD OFF ON ENDORSING.

THE PEOPLE IN DISTRICT THERE ARE PRETTY UPSET.

I THINK -- AND I DON'T THINK THERE ARE IN ANY MOODS TO BE DOING HIM ANY FAVORS.

AND I THINK AFTER HONESTLY AFTER THIS -- LOOK AT HOW EMBARRASSING TODAY WENT AND HOW MBARRASSING AND HUMILIATE INK THE PRIMARIES ARE GOING TO BE, HE'S GOING TO BE -- THE POLITICAL HIT TO HIM, HE MAY NOT -- I MAY JUST WANT TO GO OFF AND RETIRE AFTER THAT.

>> Eric: ABOU, FROM THE TED CRUZ PODCAST.

>> OKAY.

>> Eric: AT THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVEX, PRESIDENT BIDEN GETS OUSTED AND NOMINATED INSTEAD FOR PRESIDENT, MICHELLE OBAMA.

>> YEAH, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE SHOULD NOT TAKE DEMOCRATIC STRATEGY FROM TED CRUZ.

I DON'T THINK HE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT DEMOCRATIC POLITICS.

THE FACTS OF THE MATTER S JOE BIDEN IS GOING TO BE THE NOMINEE AND HE'S IN A STRONG POSITION, LTHOUGH THE POLLING IS TOUGH RIGHT NOW, BUT AS THE CONTRAST GETS CLEAR AND IT'S TRUMP VERSUS BIDEN, I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL SAY BIDEN IS THE CHOICE.

>> Eric: HOW IS AMY KLOBUCHAR -- HOW ANOISE IS KLOBUCHAR WITH THE PHILLIPS SITUATION?

>> I WOULD GUESS, I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN BUT I WOULD GUESS PRETTY ANEEDS.

I THINK THE ENTIRE DILL DELL TAGS IS VERY ANOISE.

-- THE ENTIRE DELEGATION IS VERY ANNOYED.

SOME OF THAT I'VE HEARD DIRECTLY, NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THIS.

>> Cathy: MICHELLE F.B.I.

FISCHBACH FOR A EADER IN THE HOUSE.

>> THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL AND I HEAR SHE'S DOING VERY WELL.

SHE'S VERY WELL-RESPECTED, SHE'S ON WAYS AND MEANS AND THE RULES COMMITTEE AND THEY TRUST HER A LOT AND ETHICS.

SHE'S MADE A LOT OF FRIENDS IN A VERY SHORT PERIODS OF TIME AND I THINK HER LETTER WAS REALLY WELL SAID WHEN SHE SAID, I'M USED TO WORKING WITH A IS THERE ARE VERY SLIM MAJORITY AND PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW DIFFICULT THAT IS.

>> Eric: THOSE ARE BIG COMMITTEES FOR A