>> ERIC: THERE'S PLENTY TO COVER IN NATIONAL POLITICS THIS WEEK.

CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS HAVE VOTED TO REMOVE REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR FROM THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE.

DEBT CEILING NEGOTIATIONS CONTINUE.

HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE LAUNCHED INVESTIGATIONS INTO DEMOCRATS, INCLUDING PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN.

AND DOCUMENTS, DOCUMENTS, DOCUMENTS!

LET'S GET RIGHT TO IT WITH KATHRYN PEARSON.

SHE TEACHES POLITICS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

WE WELCOME BACK NEIL KRAUS.

HE TEACHES AMERICAN POLITICS AND PUBLIC POLICY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN - RIVER FALLS.

AND JOINING US VIA ZOOM, CARLETON COLLEGE PROFESSOR EMERITUS STEVEN SCHIER.

ON THIS OMAR BUSINESS, PROFESSOR, THE REPUBLICANS ARE KIND OF SETTLING A SCORE AFTER THE DEMOCRATS BOOTED A COUPLE OF REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OFF COMMITTEES.

IS THAT FAIR?

>> I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING.

SO IN THE LAST CONGRESS, WHEN DEMOCRATS HAD MAJORITY-PARTY CONTROL, DEMOCRATS VOTED TO REMOVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN AND PAUL GOSAR, TWO REPUBLICANS FROM THEIR COMMITTEES FOR INCITING VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHER MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, AND EVEN AT THE TIME REPUBLICANS SAID THAT IF THEY WERE TO TAKE BACK THE MAJORITY, THAT CONGRESSWOMAN ILHAN OMAR WAS IN THEIR SIGHTS BECAUSE OF ANTISEMITICKIC THINGS THAT SHE HAD SAID IN THE PREVIOUS CONGRESS, WHICH, AT THE TIME, DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEADERS THEMSELVES WERE UPSET ABOUT AND THAT SHE POLOGIZED FOR.

ANTISEMITIC.

AT SOME LEVEL, IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT THEY VOTED TO REMOVE HER FROM THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE.

SPEAKER McCARTHY, ALSO REMOVED, HE HAS THE SOLE POWER TO DO THIS, TWO DEMOCRATS FROM THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE AS PART OF THIS RETALIATION.

BUT THIS IS REALLY SORT OF A TROUBLING TREND WHEN IT COMES TO CONGRESS.

TYPICALLY PARTY LEADERS AND A STEERING COMMITTEE FROM ONE'S OWN PARTY MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT COMMITTEES.

THE MAJORITY PARTY HAS THE DECISIONS ABOUT COMMITTEE RATIOS, BUT THE MEMBERSHIP THEMSELVES IS DONE BY MEMBERS' OWN PARTIES.

AND, SO, THIS IS TROUBLING.

IT'S PARTISAN.

AND THEN I ALSO THINK THAT REPUBLICANS ARE SPEAKING TO A PART OF THE REPUBLICAN BASE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS TALKING TO WHEN HE SUGGESTED THAT REPRESENTATIVE OMAR AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE SQUAD RETURN TO THEIR COUNTRIES.

>> Cathy: MIGHT THIS BE AN OPPORTUNITY, PROFESSOR, FOR THERE TO BE SOME SYSTEM CREATED TO MAYBE TRY TO AVOID THIS REMOVAL FROM COMMITTEES, THIS TIT FOR TAT?

>> TO CHANGE THE PROCESS, YOU MEAN?

>> >> Cathy: YES, THANK YOU.

>> I WOULD THINK IT WOULD PRESENT THAT SORT OF OPPORTUNITY.

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS IN DOING THIS, REALLY KIND OF ARE SORT OF TALKING WHAT THEY WANT -- YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT, RIGHT?

AND I THINK IT'S ALSO LINKED TO THE DEBATE ABOUT THE DEBT CEILING, RIGHT?

I MEAN, WE'VE HAD THIS SORT OF CONFUSION AS TO WHAT EXACTLY REPUBLICANS WOULD CUT WHEN IT CAME TO THE DEBT CEILING.

I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE FOCUS ON THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, CONGRESSWOMAN OMAR AND TOPICS LIKE THAT, DIVISIVE TOPICS, PARTISAN TOPICS, SO THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN AND OTHERS HAVE WONDERED AND WHAT IS IT EXACTLY YOU'RE GOING TO CUT IN ORDER TO SIGN OFF ON THE DEBT CEILING.

>> Eric: PROFESSOR SCHERRER, ON THE DEBT CEILING, THIS IS MONEY THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN AUTHORIZED BY CONGRESS AND THEY'RE JUST PAYING -- ALLOWING THE COUNTRY TO PAY THE PAST EXPENDITURES.

I SEE McCARTHY, THE HOUSE SPEAKER, AND PRESIDENT BIDEN MET THIS WEEK.

ANYTHING COME OF IT?

>> APPY TALK, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU HAVE TO EXPECT AT THIS STAGE OF THE NEGOTIATIONS.

THIS COULD BE A UNIQUELY DIFFICULT THING TO WORK THROUGH.

MAINLY BECAUSE THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE DEVELOPING A UNIFIED MAJORITY VOICE IN RESPONSE TO THE DEBT CEILING.

AND IF THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN, DEFAULT BECOMES MORE LIKELY.

SO, T'S A LONG AND WINDING ROAD AHEAD IN THE COMING MONTHS AND IT WILL BE FULL OF DIFFICULTIES.

>> Eric: THE PROSPECTS FOR -- WELL, PUT IT THIS WAY, HOW DOES MINNESOTA FIT WITH ITS ABORTION LAW WITH OTHER STATES AND WHATEVER'S HAPPENING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL?

WHERE DO WE STAND IN THAT ARRANGEMENT?

>> RIGHT.

WE'RE SORT OF SEEING IS STATES GO IN TWO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS IN THE WAKE OF DOBBS.

AND MINNESOTA IS THE FIRST STATE TO ACTUALLY LEGISLATE AND CODIFY A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO AN ABORTION, OF COURSE, THAT'S ALREADY THE STATE OF MINNESOTA LAW BECAUSE OF DOE VZ GOMEZ IN 1995.

BUT SHOULD A FUTURE SUPREME COURT CHANGE, PERHAPS OVERTURN THAT, DFLers WANTED TO ENSURE REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM WITH THE LEGISLATION THAT GOVERNOR WALZ JUST SIGNED.

AND, SO, MINNESOTA'S THE FIRST STATE TO LEGISLATE THIS.

NOW, THERE ARE SIX OTHER STATES THAT HAVE VOTED BY INITIATIVE IN RECENT ELECTIONS TO GUARANTEE WOMEN ACCESS TO ABORTION.

>> Eric: CAN THERE BE ANY ACTION ON THIS ISSUE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL OR ARE WE DONE WITH THAT, AS FAR AS WITH THE MIXED BAG OUT THERE?

>> OH, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH IN TERMS OF LIKE FEDERAL LAW OR SOMETHING.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY TOUGH WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN HOUSE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS KATHRYN SAID, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AT THE STATE LEVEL.

WE'RE STARTING TO SEE, YOU KNOW, THERE WILL BE OTHER STATES THAT GO, I THINK, IN THE DIRECTION THAT MINNESOTA JUST WENT.

AND THEN I'M NOT REALLY SURE.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO SEE ANY SIGNIFICANT ACTION AFTER WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE SUPREME COURT LAST SUMMER.

>> Cathy: SAY, PROFESSOR SCHIER, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE TRUMP/BIODIESELLEN -- BIDEN/PENCE, THE FEDERAL DOCUMENTS FOUND AT THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTIES HERE?

WHAT'S TO COME OF ALL OF THIS?

>> THAT IS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

WHAT WILL COME OF ALL OF IT.

WILL THERE BE ANY CHARGES REGARDING THIS, THE POLITICS OF IT MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO SINGLE OUT ANY ONE OF THE THREE AT THE EXPENSE OF THE OTHER TWO FOR CHARGES.

ALTHOUGH THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF EACH SITUATION ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

TRUMP HAD MORE DOCUMENTS, HE WAS LESS COMPLIANT, IT'S NOT CLEAR WHAT SORT OF DOCUMENTS IN TERMS OF THEIR UBSTANCE WE HAVE IN EACH CASE EITHER.

THE MOST INADVERTENT EXAMPLE SEEMS TO BE MIKE PENCE AT THIS POINT.

WE HAVE A LOT TO FIGURE OUT ABOUT WHAT EACH CASE INVOLVED AND WHAT THE DOCUMENTS INVOLVED.

AND GENERALLY THE POLITICS, I THINK, MEAN THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CHARGES AGAINST ANY OF THE THREE PEOPLE YOU'VE MENTIONED.

>> Eric: WE TALK ABOUT WHATEVER LEGISLATION IS REMAINING THAT COULD BE PASSED BEFORE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, BEYOND THE DEBT CEILING?

IS THERE STUFF THAT CAN HAPPEN STILL?

>> THE DEBT CEILING IS OBVIOUSLY CRITICAL.

AND IF HISTORY'S ANY GUIDE, THAT WILL COME DOWN TO THE 11th HOUR AT THE BEGINNING OF JUNE.

BUT IT'S ALSO CRITICAL THAT CONGRESS PASSES AND THE PRESIDENT SIGNS INTO LAW ANNUAL APPROPRIATIONS BILLS.

AND PART OF THE DEAL AMONG REPUBLICANS TO ELECT SPEAKER McCARTHY WAS 12 SEPARATE BILLS, IT'S BEEN YEARS SINCE THE BILLS HAVE BEEN SEPARATED AS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY HARD TO IMAGINE WITH SUCH A FRACTURED REPUBLICAN PARTY AND SUCH NARROW MARGINS AND A DEMOCRATIC SENATE, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT, HOW THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO A BIG OMNIBUS APPROPRIATIONS BILL THAT SORT OF MAKES EVERY FACTION HAPPY.

BUT THEY HAVE TO DO IT, OTHERWISE THE GOVERNMENT WILL SHUT DOWN.

>> Eric: IS THAT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS, WHAT, ON SEPTEMBER 30th?

IN A BIG HUMONGOUS BILL THAT NOBODY'S READ.

>> PROBABLY.

YOU'D HAVE TO, I THINK, KATHRYN WILL KNOW THAT BETTER THAN ME, BUT, I THINK, YEAH, I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK BACK TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST TRUMP , YOU KNOW, 2017, THE TAX BILL WAS REALLY THE MAJOR THING THAT WAS PASSED.

AND THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT.

IN TERMS OF MAJOR LEGISLATION.

AT THAT TIME.

SO I DON'T REALLY SEE ANYTHING MAJOR BEYOND, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT.

>> Cathy: HOW ABOUT CONGRESSMAN SANTOS, HE STEPPED DOWN FROM TWO OF HIS COMMITTEES.

AND I'M CURIOUS, PROFESSOR SCHIER, WHAT DOES HIS FUTURE LOOK LIKE?

ESPECIALLY ITH THAT SLIM MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE.

>> HIS FUTURE IS EVERMORE DIM, CATHY.

IT'S QUITE CLEAR THAT HIS CONSTITUENTS ARE OUTRAGED ABOUT HIS PREVARICATIONS THAT ARE MANY IN NUMBER.

AND IT'S SIMPLY A MATTER OF TIME WHEN HE LEAVES THE HOUSE.

HE MAY SERVE A FULL TERM OR HE MAY NOT.

BUT YOU'RE SEEING A CAREER END SLOWLY.

>> Cathy: I KNOW YOU'RE A STUDENT OF CONGRESS, HAVE WE EVER SEEN SOMEBODY LIKE THIS BEFORE?

>> NOT TO THIS EXTENT.

I MEAN, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME COLORFUL CHARACTERS, CERTAINLY MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN INDICTED, GONE TO JAIL, WORN ANKLE BRACELETS OTING ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

BUT THIS IS REALLY QUITE EXTRAORDINARY.

JUST THE SHEER NUMBER OF LIES AND EVERY DAY THERE'S A NEW NEWS STORY.

BUT SOME OF THE ALLEGATIONS WITH CAMPAIGN FINANCE, I MEAN, THEY'RE QUITE SERIOUS.

AND, SO, WHETHER OR NOT THE HOUSE ETHICS COMMITTEE CAN SORT OF GET ITS ACT TOGETHER TO TAKE ANY ACTION.

I MEAN, THE COURTS MAY DECIDE BEFORE THEN.

BUT ACTUALLY THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT JUST CAME OUT YESTERDAY, RANKING HOUSE RACES FOR 2024, THEY'RE VERY FEW COMPETITIVE RACES, BUT HIS IS THE ONLY REPUBLICAN SEAT THAT IS ALREADY BEING RANKED AS LEANS DEMOCRATIC.

>> Eric: SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE, ARE THEY GOING TO BE ON THE TABLE S THEY DO THIS COST-CUTTING AS PART OF THE DEBT CEILING?

>> I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO SAY THAT OUT OUD.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS WOULD WANT TO HAVE THAT DEBATE, THEY WOULD WANT TO FORCE THAT ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IN NOVEMBER, PRESIDENT OBAMA GAVE ONE OF THE BEST SPEECHES THAT I'VE EVER HEARD HIM GIVE N MILWAUKEE WHEN HE CAME TO WISCONSIN.

AND HE TALKED ABOUT THIS ISSUE, HE TALKED ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE, PEOPLE'S LIVELIHOODS.

AND THAT -- I HINK THAT SPEECH AND HIS APPEARANCE IN MILWAUKEE WAS REALLY PIVOTAL TO HOW THE ELECTION WENT IN WISCONSIN.

>> Eric: PROFESSOR SCHIER, ON THE SENATE, KRISTEN SINEMA FROM ARIZONA, IS SHE NOW AN INDEPENDENT BUT PROCEDURALLY STICKS WITH THE DEMOCRATS?

WHAT'S HER STORY?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE SENATE AS A WHOLE?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT YOU'LL SEE THAT SHE'LL BE VOTING WITH THE DEMOCRATS, LARGELY, AS SHE HAS IN THE PAST.

SO HER VOTE IS REALLY NOT GOING TO AFFECT THE DIRECTION OF THE SENATE IN ANY MAJOR WAY.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING QUESTIONS IS, IN THE THREE-WAY RACE WITH HER AS AN INDEPENDENT, WHO WINS?

NEXT TIME.

AND DOES THAT ADVANTAGE THE DEMOCRATIC OR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE?

THAT'S THE BIG IMPONDERABLE HERE.

>> Cathy: IS NIKKI HAILEY THROWING HER HAT IN THE RING?

>> YES, SHE'S THROWING HER AT IN THE RING.

SHE'S GOING TO ANNOUNCE IN MID FEBRUARY.

AND THIS DEFINITELY MAKES THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATING CONTEST MORE INTERESTING.

YOU KNOW, THE FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SORT OF IF OU LOOK AT THE VERY EARLY POLLS, WHICH DON'T MEAN MUCH, HAS A PLURALITY OF SUPPORT, BUT ONCE OTHER CANDIDATES REALLY GET IN AND OFFER REPUBLICAN VOTERS SOME OTHER OPTIONS, IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> Eric: YOU ARE TEACHING IN VERY INTERESTING POLITICAL TIMES.

>> Cathy: YES, YOU ARE.

[ Laughter ] >> Eric: I HEARD THE BELL.