>> Eric: HUNTERRER BIDEN'S PLEA AGREEMENT, TRUMP DIME IN THE UPCOMING TRIAL, THREE OF THE TOPICS WE HOPE TO TACKLE WITH A COUCHFUL OF POLITICAL PROFESSORS.

CINDY ROUGELY AT UMD, MICHAEL MINTA IS HERE, LAST BUT ABSOLUTELY NOT LEAST PROFESSOR EMERITUS, STEVEN SCHIER.

I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE GLORY DAYS OF HUMPHREY, MONDALE, ET CETERA.

THOSE WERE PERCENTS, THOSE WERE INDIVIDUALS.

THIS NEW D.F.L.

SUCCESS IS BASED ON ORGANIZATION MORE THAN PERSONALITIES.

>> IT IS, RIGHT.

YOU HAD NATIONAL LEADERSHIP COMING OUT OF MINNESOTA DURING THE HUMPHREY ERA.

MONDALE, HUMPHREY AND GENE MCCARTHY FOR THAT MATTER.

BUT THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT.

YOU CAN'T REALLY SAY THAT THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS MINNESOTA POLITICIANS AT THE FRONT OF IT.

THEY'RE GOOD SOLDIERS IN THE PARTY BUT THEY'RE NOT NATIONAL LEADERS OF THE STATURE OF HUMPHREY.

WHAT YOU SAW WITH KEN MARTIN IS THE INSTITUTIONAL STRENGTH OF THIS PARTY WHICH REALLY IS UNRIVALED BY THE REPUBLICANS AND THAT HELPS TO EXPLAIN A LOT OF WHAT HAPPENED THIS YEAR AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

>> Cathy: WHAT DID YOU THINK, D.F.L.

LEADERS WENT TO THE WHITE HOUSE, WHITE HOUSE LEADERS WANTED O KNOW OW DID YOU GUYS DO?

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT >> I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY INTERESTING AND WE'VE SEEN A LOT WITH GOVERNOR WALZ GETTING SOME KIND OF, YOU KNOW, NATIONAL NOTORIETY AND NATIONAL ATTENTION -- NOTORIETY IS THE WRONG WORD BUT I KNOW EOPLE ALREADY SAID, MAYBE IN FOUR YEARS HE AND, YOU KNOW, COULD BE A VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPRESSIVE AND ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT THEY GOT THINGS DONE AT A TIME WHEN IN WASHINGTON EVERYTHING STOPPED P. THEY GOT THINGS DONE, YOU MAY AGREE WITH IT OR DISAGREE WITH IT BUT THEY DID SOMETHING AND THEY DID QUITE A BIT.

>> I WANTED TO ADD, I MEAN, A LOT OF IT IS I THINK DEMOCRATS FEEL LIKE, HEY, THEY MAY NOT HAVE THIS MAJORITIES MUCH LONGER SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO AS MUCH S YOU NEED TO DO NOW BECAUSE IT'S NOT A PROMISE.

AND SECOND, I MEAN, THEIR CONSTITUENTS IF THEY DIDN'T DO THESE THINGS REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, CANNABIS, IF THEY DIDN'T GET THAT DONE THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE SURELY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> SO I THINK IT'S LIKE WE MIGHT AS WELL GET THINGS DONE NOW WHILE WE HAVE THIS MAJORITY.

>> IT WAS INTERESTING, I THOUGHT BACK TO GEORGE W. BUSH WHEN HIS FATHER WAS PRESIDENT AND SHOT UP WITH A 91% APPROVAL RATING HE SAID HE WASTED IT.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A VERY, I DON'T KNOW WHY I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BUT I THOUGHT, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

>> DO WE HAVE A TWO-TIERED JUSTICE SYSTEM?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT TO DIG INTO THE DETAILS OF ALL THIS TO BEGIN TO FIGURE IT OUT.

CERTAINLY REPUBLICANS ARE ARGUING THAT BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHERE THE EVIDENCE TAKES US ON THE WHOLE HUNTER BIDEN THING.

AND SO FAR TO ME IT'S A PRETTY BLURRY PICTURE.

>> Eric: BUT DON'T PEOPLE WITH INFLUENCE DO BETTER IN THE COURT SYSTEM THAN PEOPLE WITHOUT INFLUENCE?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A GIVEN, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ONE PARTY IS NECESSARILY ADVANTAGED.

>> NO, BUT I MEAN, THAT'S DEFINITELY TRUE, THAT IS A GIVEN, BUT IN TERMS F, YOU KNOW, REPUBLICANS ARE STARTING TO SAY THAT HUNTER BIDEN AND HILLARY CLINTON ARE GETTING THESE SPECIAL FAVORS THAT DONALD TRUMP IS NOT GETTING AND HE'S BEING PERSECUTED.

BUT IF WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE CASE THAT'S GOING ON ABOUT THE DOCUMENTS IN MIAMI, IT SEEMS LIKE THE ARCHIVES, EPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TRIED TO WORK WITH HIM TO HAVE THEM RETURNED AND THAT THEY TRIED O HIDE HEM, SO IT'S VERY DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF THAT PARTICULAR CASE IN TERMS OF CRYING FOUL.

NOW, THE TAX SITUATION WE HEARD THERE WERE A FEW WHISTLEBLOWERS NOW THAT ARE SAYING THAT HUNTER BIDEN, THESE ARE ALLEGATIONS THAT HE COULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED FOR MUCH STRICTER OR FELONIES IF THEY FOLLOWED THROUGH, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, BUT THEY DIDN'T DO THAT.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE A DEVELOPING STORY THAT WE'LL KEEP WATCHING.

>> Cathy: I SEE HOUSE SPEAKER MCCARTHY SAYS THAT HE SUPPORTS AND YOU CANNING THE TWO IMPEACHMENTS OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SO IS THIS TRYING TO BE A REWRITE OF HISTORY?

>> YOU CAN'T DO THAT, I MEAN, THEY CAN'T AND YOU CAN IT, THAT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, -- YOU CAN'T EXPUNGE IT, KIND OF A STUNT.

REWRITING HISTORY, THEY'RE TRYING TO BUT YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

YOU CAN'T UNDO AN IMPEACHMENT.

>> Eric: IMPEACHMENT ARTICLES ARE HEADING TO A COMMITTEE IN THE HOUSE.

>> YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT SORT OF G.O.P.

NITY YOU GET ON MEASURES LIKE THAT.

I'M GUESSING THAT YOU WILL GET PARTY-LINE VOTES, BUT IF YOU DON'T THAT IN ITSELF IS INTERESTING, AND WHO IS DIVERGING FROM THE PARTY.

>> Eric: CAN I ASK ABOUT JURY SELECTION IN THE AUGUST, MID-AUGUST TRIAL ON THE DOCUMENTS?

APPARENTLY THEY'RE GOING TO SIT IN FORT PIERS, FLORIDA, A DISTRICT TRUMP WON TWICE IS.

JURY SELECTION GOING TO BE CHALLENGING FOR THE FEDS HERE?

>> YEAH, I THINK, TRUMP IS FORMER PRESIDENT, AS YOU SAID HE'S IN FLORIDA, HE'S IN HOME TERRITORY.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO FIND ANY JURY THAT'S -- BECAUSE ALL YOU NEED IS ONE PERSON, RIGHT?

TO SAY NO TO CONVICT PRESIDENT TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

SO I THINK EVEN IF THEY WEREN'T IN FLORIDA THEY WOULD STILL HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

>> AND THEN I DON'T THINK YOU'LL GET A RETRIAL IF YOU HAVE A HUNG INJURY.

I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE TOO HOT.

>> YOU KNOW, AND I AGREE.

I MEAN, IT'S NOT -- FORT PIERCE IS THE HOME BASE OF THE JUDGE SO YOU WOULD EXPECT HER TO TRY TO HAVE IT THERE.

I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANY KIND OF WILLY-NILLY ON IT.

I THINK WITH A PRESIDENT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME, T IS GOING TO BE TOUGH.

EVERYBODY KNOWS HIM, PARTICULARLY HIM, I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN ANY SECRET ABOUT SOME OF HIS FLAM BOYANCES.

SO, I AGREE TOTALLY WITH MIKE, I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT NO MATTER WHERE THEY DID IT.

>> AND WHAT'S AMAZING IS THAT HIS APPROVAL RATING AMONG REPUBLICANS IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME, SO I MEAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POLARIZATION AND THE IMPACT OF THIS INFORMATION WHERE PEOPLE THINK IT'S A POLITICAL WITCH HUNT, THEY'RE OUT TO GET TRUMP, HE'S NOT SUFFERING IN THE POLLS, WE'RE STARTING TO SEE CHRIS CHRISTIE IS TRYING TO HAMMER A LITTLE BIT, HE'S ONE OF THE BRAVER REPUBLICANS GOING OUT SAYING THIS ISN'T RIGHT.

AGAIN, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HAVING AN IMPACT ON, AND EVEN THE INDEPENDENT VOTERS, IT'S PROBABLY DROPPED SOME BUT NOT AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD THINK.

>> Cathy: SO THANKS FOR BRINGING UP POLLS AND THAT KIND OF THING.

RON DESANTIS DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE CATCHING FIRE AT ALL, IS HE?

>> WELL, IF YOU THINK ABOUT HE'S IN A STRATEGICALLY VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION BECAUSE HE WANTS TRUMP VOTERS TO SUPPORT HIM, BUT HE WANTS TO DIFFERENTIATE HIMSELF FROM TRUMP IN A WAY NOT TO OFFEND THOSE PEOPLE AND HE HASN'T -- I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IN THIS FIELD HAS FIGURED OUT HOW TO DO THAT SUCCESSFULLY.

>> Eric: LET'S GO BACK TO 1968.

GENE CCARTHY GETS 42% I THINK IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, SCARING LYNDON JOHNSON WHO THEN DROPS OUT.

DOES ROBERT KENNEDY JUNIOR HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO DRAW KIND OF BIDEN'S TOO OLD VOTES, PARK THEM THEN AND CAUSE A LITTLE BIT OF HEARTBURN FOR THE PRESIDENT'S CAMPAIGN.

>> I THINK IT WILL CAUSE SOME HEARTBURN BECAUSE HE'LL PULL SOME VOTERS, BUT, NO, HE CAN'T, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> HE'S JUST A FLAWED MESSENGER.

HE'S GOT SO MUCH ISSUE -- >> Eric: THE KENNEDY NAME.

>> BUT LOOK BEHIND THE KENNEDY NAME AND YOU'LL FIND POSITIONS MANY VOTERS FIND ECCENTRIC.

>> Eric: ARE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS EXCITED ABOUT BIDEN?

>> NO, BUT HE'S THE BEST CHANCE FOR THE PRESIDENCY.

NOBODY'S GOING TO CHALLENGE HIM.

YOU'VE HEARD NAMES BEEN FLOATING LIKE GAVIN NEWSOM AND ALL F THAT.

THEY'RE NOT RUNNING.

REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO MAKE THIS AN ELECTION ABOUT KAMALA HARRIS BECAUSE BIDEN IS MUCH OLDER AND SO REALLY YOU'RE NOT REALLY VOTING FOR HIM YOU'RE VOTING FOR KAMALA HARRIS.

>> AND ONE THING TO WATCH IS THIRD WAY WHICH IS TRYING TO DEVELOP AN INDEPENDENT CANDIDACY FOR PRESIDENT >> Eric: IS THAT THAT NO LABELS GROUP?

>> NO LABELS GROUP.

IF YOU READ WHAT JOE MANCHIN WAS SAYING THIS WEEK, HE'S NOT CLOSED THE DOOR TO THIS.

AND IF HE WERE TO RUN WHO KNOWS HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT THE OUTCOME.

>> I THINK THE REPUBLICANS HAVE THEIR WORK CUT OUT FOR THEM.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT RON DESANTIS, HE'S UNIQUELY DISLIKEABLE AND THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN GET AROUND THAT.

ANYBODY THAT'S MET HIM GOES HE'S JUST NOT REAL LIKEABLE.

AND SO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

HIS POLITICAL SKILLS PROBABLY NEED SOME BUFFERING UP.

YOU KNOW, TRUMP, I'M PROBABLY THE ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD THAT THINKS THIS BUT I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO GET THE NOMINATION.

SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE RACE NOW ARE IN IT TO BUILD UP SOMETHING FOR FOUR YEARS FROM NOW.

BUT THAT MANY CANDIDATES GETTING IN THE RACE ARE GETTING INTO IT FOR A REASON.

>> Eric: IF YOU HAVE TEN OR 11 CANDIDATES DOESN'T THE SAME THING HAPPEN IN 2016 THAT EVERYBODY TAKES A LITTLE SLICE AND TRUMP MOTORS ALONG AT 32, 33% AND GETS A BUNCH OF WINNER TAKE ALL DELEGATES?

>> I THINK THE REASON DESANTIS SHOT UP SO HIGH EARLY ON IS PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THEY WERE TIRED OF THE CHAOS.

I THINK IF ANYBODY DOES SOMETHING LEAST BIT SURPRISING THEY'RE GOING TO SHOOT UP.

>> -- LOST THE CAUCUS IN 2016 AND # NEW HAMPSHIRE IS NOT ONE OF HIS STRONGEST STATES IN THE COUNTRY.

SO IF THERE IS AN OPENING LIKE SIN THISSA IS SUGGESTING IT MIGHT HAPPEN THROUGH THOSE TWO STATES.

>> Eric: TURNOUT WOULD BE DOWN BIDEN-TRUMP 2, WOULDN'T IT?

EVEN IN A PRESIDENTIAL YEAR?

>> YEAH, BUT I THINK DEMOCRATS HAVE LEARNED THEIR LESSON, LIKE THIS, TRUMP IS STILL VERY POPULAR AMONG HIS BASE AND I DON'T THINK TURNOUT WILL BE LOW FOR DEMOCRATS AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE LOW FOR REPUBLICANS BECAUSE THEY, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT TRUMP REALLY WON THE ELECTION AND THEY THINK THAT HE DESERVES A SHOT TO BE REINSTALLED AS PRESIDENT.

>> THERE'S THIS PHENOMENON THAT POLITICAL SCIENTISTS HAVE FOUND CALLED NEGATIVE PARTISANSHIP WHICH IS, YES, YOU IDENTIFY WITH A PARTY BUT YOUR NEGATIVE FEELINGS TOWARDS THE OPPOSITE PARTY ARE MORE INTENSE THAN THEY WERE IN RECENT DECADES AND THAT WOULD DRIVE DEMOCRATS TO VOTE AGAINST TRUMP.

>> Eric: OF COURSE A LOT OF PEOPLE -- TRUMP MAY BE THE ONLY REPUBLICAN THAT BIDEN COULD BEAT.

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

I MEAN, COULD SOMEBODY ELSE DO -- YOU KNOW, IT'S WEIRD, I HAVEN'T, YOU KNOW -- RIGHT NOW I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE ISSUES ARE ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE.

BUT I AGREE WITH EVERYONE ELSE WHO'S SAID THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF ENTHUSIASM FOR HIM WITHIN THE DEMOCRATS.

>> I DON'T KNOW, LOOK AT REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES.

I THINK HE BEATS TIM SCOTT, HE BEATS NIKKI HALEY, HE BEATS MIKE PENCE, HE BEATS A LOT OF THESE - I DON'T REALLY SEE ANYONE.

DESANTIS ALSO.