This week on The Wheelhouse.

An assassination attempt and a man under a microscope.

It's a presidential election in flux.

For Connecticut Public.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This is The Wheelhouse.

You could see us today.

How about that?

The show that connects politics to the people.

We got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond.

Right here.

Live from Connecticut Public on 1049 Asylum Avenue in Hartford.

Well, it has been quite the interesting week, hasn't it?

This past Saturday, former President Donald Trump was injured in an assassination attempt at a campaign rally in Pennsylvania.

The shooter, identified by the FBI as Thomas Matthew Crooks, is dead.

Officials say that 50 year old Corey Comperatore was killed in the shooting, and that two others were injured.

President Joe Biden addressed the shooting from the Oval Office hours after it happened.

Here's what he said as he was trying to “lower the temperature,” as he says, on politics in America.

Disagreement is inevitable in American democracy.

It's part of human nature.

But politics must never be a literal battlefield, or God forbid, a killing-field.

Amid an election season like no other, where Biden is dealing with members of his own party, questioning his fitness for the job.

Saturday's shooting was just the latest twist at the Republican National Convention this week in Milwaukee.

There's a lot of energy around Trump's nomination.

We're going to talk more about that in a bit.

We want to give you space to comment on what you saw, on what you've been seeing during this unique presidential election.

So we want to know if you have anything to say about .. of the race for the white House.

Join the conversation again.

We want to give you space today to talk to us.

88872096778887209677.

First, let's start .. bringing in one of our elected officials who will help us make sense, we hope, of what's happening.

So here now on the phone is Democratic Congressman Jim Himes.

Representative, Connecticut's fourth district.

Good morning, Congressman.

Good morning.

Thanks for having me.

So important to have you on today.

I really appreciate you taking the time for us.

I want to ask you, first and foremost, Congressman, how did you find out what happened to the former president and how did you react when he saw it?

Well, yeah, it's one of those moments you won't forget.

I was actually out and in my front yard mowing the lawn.

and, and my wife stuck her head out of the front door into.

The president's been shot, and, you know.

Oh, my God, my heart seized up.

so, yeah, it's one of those moments.. you know, I subsequently learned, thank God, that it was, you know, not serious, but, you know, there.

But for the grace of God, we would have had, you know, an epic, epic and horror event in our, in our history.

Bad enough as it is, but, you know, thank God it went down the way it did.

What an incredible situation, though, because we think about personal feelings that, politicians, particularly ones that have had to work during the Trump administration, thinking personally about the former president as someone who did work under him for four years, essentially including on January 6th, 2021, and being there in the Capitol.

How do you square all of that now with what you've been seeing over the last couple of days?

Well, you know, sadly, the, the, and you're hearing this from somebody who, was one, one of the last, members of Congress out of the chamber on January 6th.

You know, very sadly, our politics, which have always been rough.

You know, I me.. of rough politics in this country.

And, you know, if you're my age, you know, late 50s or so, you sort of remember that era of, you know, tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan, by the way.

You remember it with rose colored glasses.

That was pretty rough back then, too.

But, you know, if you if you think back over the generations, you know, to the conflict over Vietnam and the shooting of student to Kent State, you know, the, the violence associated, the civil rights movement, you know, violence is sadly more of a default setting in American politics than it is the aberration.

and the thing is, of course, is that, you know, individual leaders can ramp that up or ramp it down and, you know, this is a world where individual leaders need to make clear not just that violence is unacceptable, but that we've got to stop using the, you know, the extreme language that will be misunderstood by a certain percentage of the population.

I think that is simple.

And I try this in every town hall meeting as making it clear that the other side with whom I may powerfully disagree, is not the enemy.

They're not traitors.

You know what you do with the enemy and traitors, right?

They are the loyal opposition.

And the problem is, and this is what happens when you have a politics of demagoguery, you know, extremely language fires people up, and firing people up is an important part of politics.

But nonetheless, I really believe the responsibility lives on our shoulders, you know, to do what John McCain did when, when, when that woman in the town hall meeting or the debate asked him, you know, is Barack Obama a muslim?

And he said, no, ma'am.

He's a very decent guy.

That instinct is what is gone in American politics today and needs absolutely need to come back.

Ramped up political rhetoric.

You talked about people being fired up at this time.

Are you worried that this could lead to ev of course it could.

I mean, I was very gratified to see, that D.. after the attempt on his life, really went out of his way to tamp down the rhetoric, which, let's face it, is a pretty unusual move for him.

You know, this is the guy who made light of the near fatal attack on Paul Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi's husband.

so, you know, maybe he's turned over a new leaf.

We'll see.

but the fact that he did, it, the fact that the shooter turns out not to be, you know what?

So many, Maga Republicans were hoping that he would be, you know, I don't know, some Antifa leftist or whatever I think has calmed the waters a little bit, but it could it sure could have gone a different way.

You know, if Trump had called for retributi.. which is a little bit more in keeping with his history of rhetoric, or if it had turned out that this guy, you know, who did the shooting was a was, you know, some sort of, left wing activist, you know, it just could have gone a very different and very darker way.

And then I want to kind of check up on what.. in Congress on Capitol Hill right now.

Are there any conversations?

I know you've been trying to break the stalemate for years.

Democrats in the House particularly.

Are there any conversations to have any more bipartisan gun legislation now after this event?

You know, we'll we'll we'll see.

I mean, I you know, I mean, so that means none right now.

Well, this is a sore spot for me.

You know, I'm an optimist and a hopeful guy by nature.

But, you know, I'll never forget, as no one will, the murder of children at Sandy hook.

And the next day, I said, this is going to do it.

This is going to change everything.

And of course, it didn't.

So, you know, again, I'm, I'm, I'm I don't want to say cynical, but I'm a little cautious about saying, oh, well, this will do the trick.

This will now we'll figure out a way to get assault rifles out of the hands of lunatics.

You know.

I only got a couple of minutes left with you.

Representative Himes and I really want to hone in on something that you said last week.

I can't imagine it was easy for you, but you had to come out in public and question whether or not Joe Biden could do the job and essentially say, well, not necessarily question whether or not he could do the job.

But I think you were saying that you were hopeful that the president could step aside and not continue to run for reelection.

Tell me what that meant to you and tell me if you still that feel that way.

You know, like so many Democrats, like so many people, I've got a lot of loyalty and a lot of respect for Joe Biden.

but, you know, we have an election coming up that is, you know, is going to be enormously consequential .. you know, I would say for the democracy in this country.

And so we cannot let loyalty or fear or anxiety about the future governor decision making.

And, you know, I made my decision for two reasons.

Number one, listening to my consti.. who after that disastrous debate, asked some fundamental questions about whether, Joe Biden can prosecute a campaign against Donald Trump.

And secondarily, I'm a numbers guy, and I have stared at the polls in the swing districts, you know, not district states, you know, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania.

And President Biden is behind in all of them, in some cases, a lot in some cases a little.

Okay.

Polls can change.

Absolutely.

I will tell you that.

But if you look at Joe Biden as much as we love him and you listen to him speak, is this guy all of a sudden going to barnstorm the country and turn that around in the context.. Fist shaking, bloody face.

You know, I, I just don't see it.

I just don't see it in the consequences or so on that I had to say what I did.

Look, I believe the Democrats have a deep colonnade.

Somebody who would be Donald Trump.

Congressman Himes, I only got about 10s with you.

are you in the minority here, or do you feel like other Democrats feel the same way?

Is it going to change anything?

I'm absolutely not in the minority among my colleagues in the House of Representatives.

but obviously in every moment of those who have chosen to speak out.

Thank you so much, Congressman Himes.

We appreciate you joining us, particularly on short notice.

You have a nice day.

Congressman.

Thanks a lot.

Take care.

Jim Himes represents Conn.. fourth district in the United States Congress.

We thank Congressman Himes for making the time for us today.

More coming up, including a couple local guys and Danny Harr and Jonathan Wharton standing by to analyze those comments and some more to come from CT GOP Chair Ben Proto, who's going to be joining us live from the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee.

Want to get to your calls on the air today as well, some reminding you to call us and tell us how you're f.. about the state of American democracy and the presidential election.

88872096778887209677.

Support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from Yale New Haven Health, where breakthrough surgical innovations create better outcomes, speed patient recoveries, and improve patients lives every single day.

Learn more at wion.

Dawg.

On the Colin McEnroe show.

One of my favorite recent moments was when a guy called up and suggested legalizing mushrooms.

Are you personally microdosing at this moment?

That's what I want to know.

No no no.

One day, man.

The fact that that's my favorite thing may say more about me.

Listen, this afternoon at one.

Support comes from Goodspeed Musicals.

This election cycle, we're hearing a lot about felonies, aging candidates, the Israel-Hamas war.

But what aren't we hearing about?

Help us cut through the noise and cover the issues you care about.

Go to ctpublic.org/election to share your thoughts.

Listen to The Wheelhouse Wednesday mornings at nine on Connecticut Public.

Support comes from the Connecticut Democracy Center presenting Control Shift Democracy the Impact of Technology on Society and governance.

Thursday evenings this July at Connecticut's old statehouse.

More info at ctoldstatehouse.com.

This is The Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

We're following the 2024 elections through November and beyond.

Stay with us, please.

And hey, you can help shape our coverage too by filling out our election survey.

Visit ctpublic.org/election, ctpublic.org/election.

Today on The Wheelhouse where you're covering an election a consequential one of course.

And we're going to go to some consequential Connecticut residents here to react.

What we just heard from Congressman Jim Himes.

Joining me now via zoom, Dan Haar, columnist and senior editor with the Hearst Connecticut Media Group.

Good morning, Dan.

Good morning.

Great to be here.

Great to have you on.

Also on zoom, the preppie hist, one associate professor of politic.. and urban affairs at southern Connecticut.

Oh, there he is.

I see you, you're looking glorious over there.

Southern Connecticut State university, Jonathan Wharton, good morning, Jonathan.

Good morning.

Thanks for the preppy .. That's right.

Okay, guys, I just want to tell folks they could join the conversation a.. (888)#720-9677.

You want to unpack what you just heard from the congressman?

You want to maybe give us a preview from what you could hear from Ben Proto in a little bit.

Give us a call at 887209677.

I think what I want you guys to help us with today is why someone like Jim Himes would come out and say what he did about Joe Biden.

Jonathan, what do you make of what Jim Himes has said, including today and also saying, by the way, that h.. All right.

I've bee..

I worked for the former congressman Christopher Shays, who, by the way, didn't touch him for the last few months as he's been writing for our beloved Connecticut house, as Dan knows.

so I think all three of us have that in common since we do the columns.

So for me, I'm intrigued by the fourth district as a former congressional aide, but also we tend to forget that that district, you know, for years for both parties now, of course, is leaning a little bit more Democrat late.. And we have a lot of unaffiliated voters coming from New York as of the pandemic.

So I think somebody like Himes is trying as best as possible to navigate, a district that has gone in different directions, at least, you know, politically speaking.

And let's face it, he's very much a centrist.

and as he has said, which he mentioned as well, and his, you know, his writings is that, you know, when you look at the data, Biden is not cutting it in a lot of these swing states and many of the swing states, a majority of them, and that's what .. only concerned because he, among others, could have that coattail effect.

Does that mean, though, Jonathan, that the district is essentially up for grabs, or is that way too far to go down at this point?

I think it's too far to go right now.

Okay.

Because of course, we don't have any polling.

It's not been saying it's identical.

And of course, Himes has been an incumbent, for years.

So I would, you know, say that obviously leans Democr.. and it has been.

So I think it's more that he and others are concerned about, you know, the down ballot effect, because a president at the top of the ticket, whomever it is, even an incumbent is carrying the party.

And that's what matters at the end of the day, for donors, for support, and for voters.

Dan, you've been following Democrats and whether they're speaking out against Joe Biden, we know that the governor has gone public with his thoughts, essentially agreeing with Jim Himes.

But other members of the delegation haven't necessarily right within.

I would agree with J..

Within and with the congressman as well.

within about 24 hours, really 48 hours.

It was at the gala dinner of the Democrats.

a number of enough people told me that everyone thought Biden shouldn't run, in contrast to what they were saying publicly, that it was clear that a vast majority of Democratic, top elected people don't want him to run.

And I don't know that I agree that the issue is related to their side of the political coin.

That is moderate versus liberal.

The moderates do tend to be the ones, publicly of the 20 or so that are publicly saying he should go out in Congress.

They do tend to be more and more moderate, but I just see it as a straight front door question.

They believe he can't win.

I don't I take it on on face value.

Right.

That there's the problem.. unlike when Obama trailed in the polls.

and and George, and Clinton for a time.

first of all, that was now earlier than we are now.

Second of all, they were traveling in the polls for political reasons that they were able to reverse.

The reason that Biden is now trailing in the polls is not something he can reverse.

In fact, as we've seen with his conversation, with Lester Holt on NBC news, every single time he talks, there's going to be at least one thing that his opponents point to and say, “Ah, see, he can't speak or lead.” Dan with the people that aren't saying anything yet.

Is there at least a nuance to what they have or are saying behind closed doors?

Is there any thing that's remarkable to say about those folks?

It range it ranges from the the all in rara Rosa DeLauro wing of this debate.

to those who are more subtle behind the scenes than her, who are willing to admit behind the scenes, but that they can't say publicly that that he's not the right candidate.

Just, want to make sure I ask you one more before we go.

I'm just distracted by that tremendous jacket.

We need a little levity in this, tough.

You know, you said you jacket in that.

And, you know you're marching on today with this.

You can't see it in this frame right now.

I'll get.

Oh, there's Ali right there.

The octopus.

Your shirt matches.

me and.

I am wearing each.

I get the champions, the preppy bra.

But I'm wearing a peach collared shirt here, so I'm kind of trying to hold my own.

Just three good looking men, right here on your computer screen.

just really quickly before we have been on.

In a couple of minutes, I want to tell folks that can call us 88872096778887209677.

Anything else you heard in there from the congressman that was remarkable, Jonathan?

You know, I think he's being frank.

and and I respect him for that.

because it takes a lot to do this publicly and especially after that press conference that took place.

So I think when I was more intrigued by was the timing of anything, you know, I I'd be curious to find out, Frankie, what led him to do this immediately after that press conference, just as a follow up question, because I was kind of hoping that he would allude to ..

But there's something that really kind of stood out for him after that press conference.

Maybe that's where it was, because he only announced it half hour later, and it sounds like he was already .. in terms of the timing factor, if that makes sense.

Oh, that makes a good point.

That's what a lot of people were saying after that statement came out.

I just want to remind folks, you hear me talking about what people are wearing.

That's because I can see them on a stream.

And I don't think we've said this on the air yet, but we are streaming.

We're providing a video presentation right now.

You're seeing me throw my hands up in the air.

If you're on youtube.com slash Connecticut Public.

If you want to watch a video of us right now, if you're listening on 90.5, say, terrestrial, we go to youtube.com, slash Connecticut Public to catch a video, and you'll see three amazing looking gentlemen and Jonathan Wharton, the Preppy Prof, myself, Frankie Graziano and Dan Harr.

There they are on your screen.

yes.

You did hear that?

that sort of quick reaction from Jim Himes.

But it's something that, I'm watching the Republican convention from Milwaukee yesterday, and even national television anchors and reporters are having a hard time keeping a straight face, as they're telling you that they're hearing from anybody who will talk listening to podcasts, even even pro Democrat, pro Joe Biden podcast.

They're having a hard time right now reconciling with what's happening.

So, Dan, what's the temperature like nationally on this, or when can we see something get done on this?

I guess I don't know.

I don't know how to ask this without trying to be as honest.

The more it obviously, the more we're, the more time that passes, the more likely it is that, President Biden is going to be the nominee on the ballot.

And to some Democrats, that's just fine.

He remains, there is no other obvious choice.

We can talk about that at great length or not.

Vice President Harris is not an obvious choice, and any other .. brings problems both, procedurally and, racially.

and so but.

I think for many Ameri.. You I know you're right, in this regard, but I would say that for many Americans, they think that there's an obvious choice because Kamala Harris is vice president.

But to also back up what you're saying, I think it was, John King and, you know, John King on CNN, he likes to talk about polls.

Right?

He had a poll that he brought out that had four other people.

let me see if you think any of these people are remarkable.

Dan, we had Mark Kelly, who is in Arizona.

He's a lawmaker out of Arizona, Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan.

Josh Shapiro, who's out there in Pennsylvania.

And I'm having trouble remembering who the fourth is right now.

But you get.

The Illinois governor, Illinois..

There you go.

So that's, that's, .. Could be.

The Maryland.

It could be the Maryland.

It was actually Maryland.

Governor Westmore, thanks so much for tha..

But but go ahead.

Yeah, but but in any case, the point I want to make is, yes, the Democrats are worried, but the whole point and this comes into progress as we watched the Republican convention, the whole point is that whoever is the nominee, the Democrats need to and are attempting to keep a focus on who is Donald Trump and and now who is JD Vance, on this other ticket.

And there still is a debate to be had, an a battle to be had.

And it is still two administ.. We're going to the we.

We appreciate guys the analysis we're going to break away from you guys just for a second and keep you on.

Don't go anywhere because live from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, we're joined right now by the GOP chair Ben Prato chairman Pro, thank you so much for joining us on The Wheelhouse this morning.

And frankly, how are you doing?

There you are.

It's good to see you..

I'm sorry for the hotel lighting.

but the best we can do.

I should have brought my rink light with me.

I guess you do.

I was going to need it th.. That's right.

I called you while you'.. in Milwaukee, so you didn't know.

But thank you so much for doing this.

We appreciate it.

No problem.

We've already do it.

We've already had a couple of nights.

but Monday, I guess we could say, was a big news day for Republicans.

Nationally, we had JD Vance formally nominated as Donald Trump's vice presidential pick.

And then there was, of course, Trump's first appearance in public, really, with people around him.

after Saturday's events, an emotional visit.

Did you catch any of that in person?

what was the reaction that you saw?

Yeah, I was, I was in the room.

I was on the convention floor when, President Trump came out.

you know, frankly, I don't know if you've ever been to a national conv..

I have not.

They're always very exciting.

And, you know, I'm sure Jonathan and Dan can probably tell you about them, but, you know, they're very exciting.

There's a lot of energy.

There's a lot of electricity.

You know, I said, this morning on another show, I said, when Donald Trump came out, onto the convention floor, every power plant in the probably the city of Milwaukee, if not the state of Wisconsin, could have been turned off and there would have been enough energy to light up the entire state.

Wow.

On the shooting, I want to I want to have you remark on that, because this is such a big moment in American history an.. How was that?

we're talking about political rhetoric and violence and things like that today.

So is that changing in any way, the messaging that the party might have in Connecticut, maybe nationally, is is there maybe a change in strategy or words used in any correspondences with Yeah.

You .. you know, at least on our side, the rhetoric trying to be turned down some, you know, we're trying to do that here at the convention on the floor where we're trying to keep chants.

Very positive, very upbeat, about Trump, about USA, you know, about what we're doing.

and, you know, we're I think, you know, as we've heard, speak speakers throughout the last two days have been more, less rhetoric, let's put it that way, and more substance and, yes, you know, at.. agenda and, their record and you know what the Democrats have done over the last number of years, but, you know, we've I think we've we've .. positivity about our agenda, our platform.

We got a great platform that we put out.

I had the honor of serving on that committee and working closely with the Trump campaign.

on getting that platform passed last week, through the, through our committee.

so, yeah, you're hearing more of what I call positivity and positive messaging.

I want to ask you about the platform.

And a little bit I just want to follow up on kind of what's happening out there in.. and what's happening with the party.

Are you kind of anecdotally noticing a shift?

Maybe not just in the last coup.. but even in the last couple of weeks since we saw that debate, are you noticing a shift within how Republicans are viewing and talking about this election?

Yeah.

You know w.. the polling data that we see in Connecticut, that was, you know, if we want to be Connecticut specific, you know, Joe Biden has had, you know, is upside down, even among Democrats across the state in a lot of ways, not, you know, not as much as obviously, with Republicans and, and even on affiliates.

and I think you're hearing, you know, more people becoming concerned about, you know, Joe Biden's, ability to continue to be president and even more concerned that Kamala Harris, you know, may end up becoming president should they get reelected, which I think scares people even more than Joe Biden, being president.

so there's, there's, I think a huge, swing in the conversations that are being had among voters, and about, what that means going forward.

Why would there be such a concern if, Kamala Harris was president?

What what what are you hearing from, from your constituents there?

well, well, no one really thinks that, having a president who giggles when asked the question because she doesn't have an answer to it, is really the kind of person when he's leading the country of the world.

what Kamala Harris was, was chosen for a reason, and it had absolutely nothing to do with her ability to be the next president of the United States, to be the vice president of the United States.

it was clearly gender and racial politics that were put in play by the Democrats.

and as a result, we have a person sitting a heartbeat away from the presidency who really is not capable of serving in that role.

Just looking at candidates for federal office and happening out of Connecticut and people that you're talking to, are you advising them on how to talk about this race?

Are you advising them on how to talk about Kamala H.. and how to talk about Joe Biden and what's happening with Democrats?

Oh, look, what I suggest to candidates is you're running in your own election.

You need to get yourself elected.

and you need to be talking about your agenda, your vision, where you see the future of America in Connecticut being and how you being elected can help create a better Connecticut and a better America.

and so I think when they talk about those things and they push those agendas and not only helps them, but it helps the entire ticket.

so, you know, candidates are very candidate specific and candidate driven.

And as a result, I think having those conversations about themselves, their, you know, their agenda, their vision, you know, their proposals, why they're the better choice helps everybody up and down the ballot.

Then we've talked on the show about MAGA style politics and whether it could impact people running in Connecticut.

I never thought I'd ask, our colleagues, as I had today, whether or not the fourth district was up for grabs.

I don't think it is necessarily.

But nonetheless, things are, as you said earlier, upside down, even in Connecticut.

So like, what do you do with, with MAGA style politics and whether or not this could pop up in the race with somebody like a Ryan Fazio who's running in Greenwich?

We've heard in recent years, and I don't know if you necessarily agree with this, that this could impact, Trump.. could impact somebody like a Ryan Fazio in a place like Greenwich in the 36th.

look, I think at the end of the day, if people are voting for a state senator because of the presidential candidates are, then I think they're missing the point of the election.

The other side of it is, I think you need to talk to somebody like Ryan Fazio.

This is this is a, you know, a state senator.

And you, you know, in a very short period of time, has tremendously distinguished himself in Hartford.

I think, you know, even Denver would agree with that.

my far left liberal Republican friend, but, yeah, I think, you know, can't wait to.

See what he thinks about that.

Remember, Dan's a registered Republican, proud, a proud registered Republican, as he reminds us.

So let's let's stay with, let's stay with though the go ahead.

So but I think, you know, look, Ryan, has, I think, distinguished himself.

He's done a tremendous, he's he's represented, you know, Greenwich and Stamford entertainment very well.

I think, you know, you've got a strong base ..

He's well known, well-liked.

and I think Ryan's going to be fine on his own.

and also, I think, you know, you're seeing a shift back in Greenwich.

you know, I talked to folks down there a lot.

They're very concerned about the Biden-Harris ticket as well.

And, well, here's the thing.

you know, rightly or wrongly, the shooting, the hit a couple of things politically.

And it's unfortunate that, you know, we h.. talking about people who were killed as a result of that.

I, I think everybody that you talk to will agree that the shooting absolutely solidified the Republican base for Donald Trump and Republican camp.

I just want to ask you one more question.

Before we get out, I want to talk to you about project 25. because it's been something that a lot of people are asking us about.

We got nothing to do with the Republican agenda has nothing to do with the Republican platform.

it's not involved.

It's, you know, everyone.

Would you support it if it were enacted or anything like..

I don't even know what it is.

So it's the Heritage Foundation.

I understand they had a role even going back to to to Ronald Reagan, but it's a they're talking about a potential Trump transition, I guess Trump has tried to distance himself, as you're trying to mention here.

But I'm just going to ask you for ideas.

Is there any reason why, there was no conversation about the, liberal think tanks and their proposals and what they do to help Democratic presidents?

It's a it's a great question, but I'm talking to the KT GOP chair.

And the only reason why .. because we're getting a lot of comments on this on the service survey.

We did, folks can fill it out if they'd like to ctpublic.org/ele..

But that's what that's what a lot of people are.

We have a Susan from Guilford.

She's concerned about project 2025, and I'm sure.

She was, because quite frankly, and, you know, I say this with all due respect to you sitting there, you've all pushed it because you've all made it an issue.

The Republicans haven't made it an issue.

Donald Trump hasn't made an issue.

The RNC hasn't made an issue.

It's not mentioned in our platform at all.

Yeah.

How much of your platform does it have anything on?

On a we talk about project 25 here.

It's talking about maybe getting the abortion pill if a stone off the market is that in the platform here in Connecticut.

well the platform is very specific in regards to the issue.

It says that we believe that the the issue belongs properly with the states, which is what the Dobbs decision says, and that the state legislatures are in a better position to make those decisions.

The, platform supports access to prenatal care and supports access to birth control, and it supports access to IVF.

so, you know, I think it's a it's a pretty, standard position that the Republicans have held for many, many years.

and so I'm, I gather, this is a media created firestorm that has, has nothing to do with the Republican Party, and it's just not part of the platform, not even mentioned.

There's nothing that I that I'm aware of.

that is even taken from any other think tank.

These are all Donald Trump's, proposals and visions, an agenda, you know, like, for I guess this is my seventh convention ..

I've been involved, in various committees and conventions.

And I can tell you this, having been on the platform committee this year, Donald Trump was the first presidential candidate that I'm aware of in the camp that I've attended who actually put pen to paper on the platform, made edits to it, added to it.

This is a Donald Trump's vision.

It's not the Heritage Foundation or anybody else's vision for America.

This is Donald Trump and the Republican Party, the vision.

and so I think that the whole here, you know, the heritage or project 2025 or whatever it's called, has nothing to do with us.

It's not involved in it.

And it's a it's a media created falsity that really is just not taking the country or the, conversation in any positive direction.

Thank you so much for coming on the show here from Milwaukee.

We got to talk to Ben Proto, one of the delegates, from Milwaukee here live.

Thank you for coming on this morning, Ben.

We appreciate it.

Happy to do it, Frank.

You have a good one.

You have a good one as well.

Let's bring back in Dan Harr and Jonathan Wharton.

Dan Harr registered Republican.

I understand it as, as we just heard there.

How'd you take that?

Well, I am a registered Republican.

I registered on January 2nd.

exactly the last day possible for me to vote in the primary, against Donald Trump and for a more reformed Republican Party.

I. I was just messing with you here.

Let's let's let's go forward here because I don't got a lot of time after.

Oh, yes.

After we after we went with, project 2025 there.

There's a lot to unpack, but more than anything, guys, I I'm I'm tight on time.

I don't want to ask too much about, these views on Kamala Harris, but what's up with this, obsession that we have nationally that we can't have somebody be picked?

That's a that's a woman or a person of color to run.

It's got to be a diversity thing.

What's how do you address that?

What do we think?

I don't think there's, I don't think there is such a need or that's the issue.

Isn't diversity or not diversity issues?

Who are the candidates?

And that's what we're trying to talk about there.

We're talking about whether or not Joe Biden is going to be president.

Continue.

Kamala Harris is one of the people that could replace him.

And, we have Connecticut GOP chairman saying right there that the whole reason why the Kamala Harris is in the discussion is because of the color of her skin.

And, the fact that she is a woman.

So I don't know where to go after that other than to say project 2025 seems to be something that people are talking about, but that Republicans at least, in power, are trying to distance themselves from.

What do you think, Jonathan?

Well, I mean, you heard the chairman say that, you know, it is a you know, it's a platform from a think tank.

And so, you know, it's not unusual to think tanks offer their own platforms.

And, you know, this happens, right?

And then ideologically, their variety of think tanks is, is this something where the liberal or conservative.

So there's the, the elements of it that will be kind of baked into the party platform.

That's not that unusual.

It does take place.

I think you've just seen more attention on this one than other platforms coming from think tanks.

It's getting a lot of attention.

What about, your thoughts on this, Dan, do you think that the platform in Connecticut is that different from project 2025?

It's the the answer is that, yes, the Republican official platform is more moderate.

let's not be naive here.

And I'm not accusing Jonathan of being naive, but, let's let's not as the policy be naive here.

This is more than just, an outside, unconnected, I mean, this is a joke, right?

These these are the people that were in the administration.

And let's not get caught up on individual details, like never put down or this or that very specific detail.

The overall tone of of of that project 25 900 and something page manifesto is that we will return America to the white Christian nation, that it was formed, as with the family unit being the the, the father, the nonworking mother and their children living at home.

It's it's it's also talking importantly, as we saw with the recent Supreme Court case about removing the power of the agencies, the bureaucracy, the experts who do things like set what water quality standards are and FDA standards.

And we know that all the millions of decisions that are made in government, removing that from experts and putting it in the hands of Congress, theoretically, that may be a good idea, but what it ends up doing is politicizing everything and leaving things in a sort of a lockdown that we have now.

Jonathan.

you saw, pretty much a minimization of w.. Donald Trump has an impact on people down ballot, particularly in Connecticut.

Do you still see that?

Is there a Trump effect here for somebody like a Ryan Fozzie with somebody?

I keep bringing up because we've we've heard his name mentioned in, past shows as somebody who could be impacted just by Trump and MAGA politics being on the ballot, what are your thoughts?

No.

Any time you have anybody at the top of the ticket, whether it's a president, presidential candidate, gubernatorial candidate for that matter, you're going to have that effect.

you know, the question or bigger question concern can be, are we going to see more of a turnout among people who are, let's say, against, what's going on nationally with the Republican Party or even what's going on, with Biden.

So one way or the other, that turnout effect is going to matter, for all races, really.

a great example of this is what took place back in 2008.

Obviously, Chris Shays got voted out and Jim Himes got elected partly on the Obama wave.

You know, I don't want to ignore that.

You know, when it comes down to it, you get one side other than showing up, and more importantly, you steer those people who lean, you know, ideologically in person wise towards one party or the other.

Because, remember, the majo.. and even in the fourth district and fifth district, for that matter, are unaffiliated voters.

So you can speak beyond the base and gain interests or have people against you on one side of the other, and that's what matters at the end of the day.

I also want to emphasize to Dan’s point, that when it comes to think tanks for organizations, it's.. that prior administrations are part of them.

You know, we saw the same thing with Obama's administration being part o.. for progress, for example, part of I think tank.

So oftentimes the administrators, regulators, those people do go int.. bringing up with the Chevron case, certainly the big concern still stands.

Should it be with the agency or Congress in making these decisions and regulations, for example.

Jonathan, where can people find you on Twitter and get those thoughts off of yours and on social media?

Well, you know, I miss you, frankly, on Twitter.

You know, that you're down with that same thing.

I'm a preppy prof. That preppy prof.

The preppy is one.

And, Dan, people got to read your column because we don't have time to go through it right now.

But I'm going to understand that after all the Donald Trump has been accused of doing after a judge found that he raped a woman, after a jury unanimously agreed that Trump falsified business records to hide a hush money payment to Stormy Daniels in order to influence an election.

By the way, after January 6th, you're going to tell me that this guy doesn't get to talk about unifying the country right?

That's exactly right.

And where could they find the colu.. That column is in print today in all of our papers in Connecticut, New Haven, Connecticut Post, Stam..

It's also online.

City Insider, under my name.

Thank you so much, Dan, I apprecia..

I can't believe we have to say goodbye to you guys, but thank you so much for coming on the show, and thank you for helping us unpack those interviews with Congressman Jim Himes and GOP Chairman Ben Proto.

Thank you.

Frank.

It is.

Have a good day, guys.

Up next, we dive into the t.. and how rhetoric and federal gun policy could be contributing to the weakening of our democracy.

You can join the conversation.

88872096778887209677.

Marine biologist Jasmine Graham grew up in a fishing family speaking Creole dialect in South Carolina's Low country.

Then she fell in love with sharks.

I was particularly interested in, just like the wild and wacky adaptations that sharks have hammerheads, stalkers, anything that you look at and you go, why do you look like that?

That's on the next on point.

Listen, this morning at ten.

Connecticut Public's new documentary, Fighting for Home - How Housing Policy Keeps Connecticut Segregated uncovered how exclusionary zoning and redlining have left a legacy of oppression.

Through powerful stories and expert insights, we reveal the systemic barriers that have kept black and brown communities segregated for decades.

Witness the struggle and determination of those fighting for change.

Stream now at ctpublic.org/housing.

Support provided by Connecticut Humanities and the Connecticut Fair Housing Center.

The spotlight is on foreign policy tonight at the Republican National Convention.

I'm Susan Davis.

Join me for live special coverage from NP.. Hope you can join us tonight at nine.

Support comes from live Will Redefine Life with dementia your way with access to prevention and wellness programs, assisted living and skilled health care, all co-designed by people living with dementia.

Why accept memory care when you deserve more at Live well.org.

This is The Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

You are seeing us this morning live from Hartford.

If you are watching on youtube.com slash Connecticut Public, you're also hearing us on terrestrial radio and ctpublic.org/thewheelhouse.

And we're inviting your phone call today.

(888)#720-9677.

We want to talk about the state of our democracy continuing our discussion about the tumultuous week in U.S. politics.

Biggest news over the weekend, of course, the assassination attempt of former president and current candidate Donald Trump.

I want to talk about what this might mean in an election cycle.

It's a cycle that's already been pretty heated.

We have a couple of guests here now to talk about the state of rhetoric and violence in America today.

We got Jason Stanley, a returning participant on the wheelhouse here today.

He researches political rhetoric at Yale .. and he's the author of the forthcoming book, Erasing History How Fascists Rewrite the Past to Control the Future.

Good morning, Jason.

Morning, Frank.

Good to see you.

And actually see you here..

If you're following us on youtube.com slash Connecticut Public, and we've got David a gram.

He covers politics and national affairs..

Thanks for being on, David, and good to see you as well.

Good to be here.

Good to have you on, folks.

You can join the conversation.

(888)#720-9677.

First things first, David, you get this question.

Are we actually seeing an increase in political violence in this country?

Would you say.

You know, it's hard to quantify that.

It depends on how we count it.

But I think it's definitely fair to say we've had a surge in notable incidents.

We've had attempts on high profile people, obviously, President Trump, but, you know, there was an assassination attempt against Brett Kavanaugh.

There was the shooting, a congressional baseball game.

There was January 6th, most prominently.

So I think we've seen a lot of these high profile incidents, that are, you know, it's notable.. Hard to track because there's no centralized database.

And the definition of political violence is different depending on who you ask.

So it's good to say that it is hard, hard to quantify, Jason, the negative, political rhetoric that we're he.. Well, I'm really happy that you.. the racism and sexism and the Republican, and the comments previously made.

Oh, you heard that?

Yes.

I mean, so let's break down that rhetoric.

The Republicans are running this campaign.

against DEI.

And what that means is that any black person, especially any bla.. but they accused, the mayor of Baltimore, the black mayor of Baltimore is a, who's male, black male of being a BD hire.

this is, code for saying that, black people and women are not competent.

What he said, let's break down the rhetoric here.

What he said is that Kamala Harris giggles when she's asked a q..

This is the former attorney general of the state of California, the former senator of the state of California.

And he's saying she's a child now, that's a common rhetorical tactic of infantilizing people.

It's usually directed against women and black people.

So we're seeing this as a central tactic of the Republican Party when someone treats of the former, the vice premier of the United States, former senator, former attorney general, says she's a child.

that's concerning, rhetoric.

It's it's racist.

J.D.

Vance is 39 years old, and he's the vice presidential candidate for Republicans.

So if Donald Trump were to be elected, you'd have potentially JD Vance being very close to the presidency.

And I would imagine that his.. isn't as vast as somebody like Kamala Harris is.

You're saying attorney general, former Senator Jason.

That's right.

I mean, I'm not goin.. JD Vance.

I mean, he's very, very smart, very ideological call, very far.

Right.

I think he's, very threatening to Democratic, goals.

I mean, threatening to.. that the struggle against former Putin.

So, but, you know, and also it wouldn't really work, right?

It doesn't really work against the white man to infantilized them that way.

So talk about them as children giggling and such like.

David covers, politics and national affairs for The Atlantic.

So help me now zoom out here and look at this rhetoric that we've seen since the shooting.

Obviously, President Donald Trump, former President Donald Trump a bit muted.

for once, I would imagine that could happen during an assassination attempt.

But we're not necessarily seeing that from other Republicans.

Right, right.

Well.. we've seen in the aftermath of this assassination attempt, conservative media is talking about this being a result of Di.

They're claiming that because they're female Secret Service agents, they're responsible for this.

So, you know, this sort of rhetoric has continued even in the aftermath of the shooting.

and, you know, you've seen Republicans talk about how they're going to turn to sort of unity rhetoric and they're going to tone things down.

And I think at some of these early speeches in the RNC, you've seen a little bit of that.

And I'll be curious to see, you know, wh.. Trump does in his speech on Thursday, his his nomination acceptance speech.

but among the people you see on stage at the RNC is somebody like Mark Robinson, who's the Republican nominee for governor in North Carolina, who said just very recently that some folks need killing.

so, I mean, this is really deeply embedded in the Republican Party and I think it's hard to, it's hard to disengage it from the sort of MAGA approach and say that we're going to have a soft, fuzzy kind of MAGA.

Jason, can you help us connect in some way rhetoric to political violence?

In one survey conducted last month by the University of Chicago, 17% of respondents said they support the use of force to either restore Trump to the presidency or prevent him from becoming president.

10% said they supported using force to prevent him.

7% said that they supported using force to reinstate him.

it's not it's it's small, but it's not insignificant.

Right.

That's just with Trump.

We know necessarily that, as we're hearing a lot from Republicans saying that the rhetoric comes a lot from the left.

It's not always the left that has this rhetoric.

How close are we to political violence because of what people say?

Well, I mean, it's not all just the left that has this rhetoric.

I mean, yes, it's a lot as it's there's a lot of projection happening from the Republican Party.

Donald Trump broke longstanding norms, in this country, describing in his discussions of, of Mexican, immigrants, it has discussion of political opponents.

he it's not just we're not we're pas.. a violent rhetoric, which really Trump reentered.

He introduced explicit slurs.

You know, the way he talks about immigrants as terrorists and criminals.

so, so this, of course, justifies, you know, if people are terrorists and criminals, you can, put them in large detention camps or concentration camps, as it seems we've been promised to do.

At this point, we are getting explicit declarations of state violence when, if Trump comes to power again, and, you know, state violence, he if he says he'.. to use the state against his politi.. and it's a tricky situation about what to do, because for people like me who do see democracy on the line here, it is, an existential moment.

but political violence is not only immoral but benefits, the side, the, essentially a side that views this as a power of power struggle for, for a king.

you know, the Republican candidate, the Republican chairman, said, oh, Donald Trump, himself, is all over the Republican, program.

Of course he is, bec.. is the principle aspect of that program.

Dan Harr, who was just on, said in the last segment that project 2025, don't even look at that document.

You just have to understand that whatever the administration might look like, if Donald Trump is elected, there is going to be some kind of return to this, ideal where it's all about the white Christian national.

At least that's the thought that a lot of people are having, or at least the the fear maybe, that people are having.

So we have that.

We also have January 6th and that seemingly b.. and perhaps people being, I don't know, exonerated or maybe their criminal records expunged.

So how do we square that with the violence of the other day and, and a lot of people taking issue with that, with people not necessarily having an issue, I guess with January 6th.

Yeah.

a completely unprecedented..

I mean, I suppose it's precedented because we had, you know, Hitler did a death coup, and then years later, Rahm tried a coup and then years later ran as the Democratic candidate leading a party and a democratic election.

But in the United States at least, this has never happened.

A president who tried to remain in power by overthrowing by, after he lost an election.

so we're in completely uncharted territories, territory here.

and, and it's not clear really how to talk about it.

Right.

it's, you know, if you say.

Wait, Donald Trump tried to remain in power and, and and, you know, he might he probably it looks like if you look at the past that he will just remain in power.

Come what.

May.

if he is elected again.

if you say that now the Republicans have this talking poin.. Oh, well, now you're saying it's an existential matter.

So describing they're trying to say describing the actual political facts is off the table.

Now, and I don't know how to proceed politically if we can't say this president, ginned up a violent insurrection and tried by multiple means to remain in power after he lost an election.

Apparently, we're not allowed to say that because, even though it's true, because it's dangerous rhetoric.

and finally, we should just note, as you did the previous in this program, that the more we learn about the shooter, the more it seems to be an issue about gun control, than politics.

And that's where we're going to go with David right..

But I'm gonna play a clip, first, earlier this week on a powerful episode of Where We Live, which airs in this timeslot other days on the week on Connecticut Public.

My colleagues played a clip of Vivek Murthy, the U.S.

Surgeon General, talking about the first of its.. violence, distributed by the office.

54% of adult Americans saying they or somebody that they're intimately familiar with has experienced gun violence.

It outlines the urgent threat firearm violence poses to the health and well-being of our country.

As a doctor, I've seen the consequenc.. and the lives of the patients I've cared for over the years.

These are moms and dads, sons and daughters, all of whom were robbed of their physical and mental health by senseless acts of violence.

David.

Another .. with access to an AR style rifle.

This time it's 20 year old Thomas Crooks, a registered Republican.

I gave you maybe a quote for your next, article earlier.

I didn't, but, Jim Himes may have when he said, essentially there are no bipartisan talks right now to have, some gun control after a shooting last week.

Is that is that what you're seeing?

And what the heck do we do with all that?

Yeah, I think it's striking how little conversation we've seen about..

So, you know, President Biden, yesterday suggested that we should have an assault weapons ban.

the sort of rhetoric you might expect, but I don't think anybody thinks that will go anywhere.

And we saw some movement, on gun control legislation early in the Biden administration.

I think that went as far as this.

Congress is willing to bear.

we know that the general population would support some measures.

I think there's a, you know, the real division, obviously.

and maybe the most effective gun control, would be too far for the courts and too far for many Americans.

But, it's clear that Congress doesn't have the will to do thin..

So even in a situation where someone has shot at and struck a former president in an assassination attempt, and we're being told we can't, as Pro.. we can't talk about certain things.

And one of the things we seem not to be able to talk.. of guns and how that increases the risk of violence.

We got about a minute left, so I'm going to give each of you 30s to answer the following question.

Where the heck do we go next on this?

And what is the road to November here in terms of electoral violence, the threat of electoral violence or political violence?

What should we be looking out for?

David Graham?

Well, I think one thing it's amazing we're having this conversation, obviously, that it feels like in many ways already the news cycle is moving on from something as serious as an assassination attempt.

So I'm not sure what effect it will have.

And I think the talk about, coming together in unity and turning down the rhetoric is likely to be fairly short lived.

I think we'll be back to the same kind of, heated discussion, you know, by, .. You feel the same way, Jason, you got 30s here.

Go ahead.

I absolutely feel the same way.

And we have to see rhetorical, moves right now.

Like what we're seeing from the, from the Republicans that.

Oh, they're from fomenting political violence as an attempt to silence and shut down, legitimate political speech.

it's one thing saying that, you know, Mexicans are immigrants are poisoning the blood of our nation.

That's illegitimate political speech.

But to point out that, that Trump Project 2025, are threats to democracy, that's not just legitimate political speech.

that's vital to keep that in mind as we go forward.

Jason Stanley at Yale, thank you so much for joining us.

Good luck on your upcoming book.

And, of course, David Graham from The Atlantic.

Thank you both.

Thank you, thank you.

A lot of people to thank today because we had this live stream.

So thank you so much.

This Wheelhouse produced by Kay Perkins, edited by wheelhouse executive producer Catie Talarski, technical producer The omniscient Gene Amatruda.

Dylan Reyes edited promotional material for the show Bradley O'Connor, Joe Coss, Julianne Varrachi, they made this stream possible.

Thank you to Sam Hockaday for the graphics, of course Tess Terrible for helping us in studio, and Robin Doyon-Aitken and Meg Dalton for their support of the show.

Download The Wheelhouse anytime on your favorite podcast app.

Thank you so much to our social and visual team as well.

I'm Frankie Graziano, this is The Wheelhouse.

Thanks for listening.