♪ opening music ♪ ♪ >> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

Memorial Day weekend is the official start of summer and South Carolina Parks and Recreation and Tourism Director Duane Parrish joins us to talk about the latest tourism numbers and what we can expect for the rest of the summer, but first Gibbs Knotts, Dean of the School of Humanities and Social Sciences at the College of Charleston, breaks down the latest in the 1st congressional race and what we can expect as we get closer to election day.

Gibbs, thanks for joining us.

>> Gavin, it's so great to be here.

<Gavin> So Gibbs, let's start with the big news this week, and we're talking about the 1st congressional district debate that happened down at Burke High School in Charleston.

You were part of the panel that was questioning Nancy Mace, Katie Arrington and Lynz Piper-Loomis, who got the first question in that debate and then proceeded to endorse Katie Arrington right there on the spot, took her microphone off, walked off the stage.

What did you think about that moment?

It was kind of a big, big highlight for that debate.

>> Yeah, I had no prior knowledge that was going to happen.

So, that really took me and the other folks on stage by surprise.

First off, the audience was going crazy.

There's a lot of Arrington supporters, real vocal, it was like a mini Trump rally, Gavin in a lot of ways, and then I initially then after, after sort of a subtle event, I started to panic, because we had 15 questions, which would have been more than enough for three people, but then when you only have two people, and they still had the same amount of time to respond.

You know, I was having trouble even listening to the responses of the candidates, because I was scribbling questions down really quick, and we were exchanging them with the other panelists, but we survived.

We added a couple of questions, but yeah, I did not.

I've never seen that before, and it was probably going to be the only debate.

So really kind of the biggest venue for Lynz to sort of do that and make the Arrington endorsement, but definitely took us by surprise and seemed to take Nancy Mace by surprise.

Not sure as much about Katie Arrington and whether she knew or not, but it was made for a very interesting start to the debate.

<Gavin> Yeah, having been a debate moderator myself and been on those debate stages.

I can only imagine how nerve racking that would have been because you are trying to juggle time, you're making sure everyone's in line, and then all of a sudden, you're a person down so <Gibbs> One of the questions we added was, you know, one of the ones was, do you, why do you think you're the best person to beat Annie Andrews, because she's the likely Democratic She's the only person running on the Democratic side?

The next question we had in the queue was, What's Joe Biden's biggest mistake?

Given the tenor of that debate?

That would have been a fun question.

We didn't get to it, But you could see, you know, those two candidates would have probably gone on for a really long time, exceeded time, explaining what they are frustrated about with Joe Biden, and so that was the next thing.

It was a really interesting debate.

<Gavin> Gibbs talking about that endorsement from Lynz, she's still on the ballot, so she can still kind of maybe even affect this election in some way, since any candidate who's in this primary battle you have to have 50 plus one, 50% plus one vote.

So this could you know, sway things and probably lead to a runoff.

We'll see.

We don't really have too much polling on this race, but do you think that was an effective way to endorse her?

It seems like it was a really quick thing, and then it was kind of done.

Anything you can kind of gauge from that?

<Gibbs> I think probably what it was that got the most attention that she probably could have gotten and saying she had just done a press conference, you know, at the base of the Ravenel Bridge or something like that, but I don't think when you look at the amount of money she's raised, and her name recognition, I don't think it really was always a race between Mace and Arrington.

So you know, I don't think there are a lot of Lynz supporters that are going to come over and be with Arrington, but it did make for some high drama and fireworks but I still think she's probably even though she's going to be on the ballot, I don't expect her to get a lot of votes.

<Gavin> When we look at the rest of the debate, what were some big takeaways?

What were some of the big jabs that you thought landed from either Miss Arrington or Mace?

>> Yeah, I mean, Arrington, you know, could have been on, you know, a nightly Fox News show or at a Trump rally.

So, you know, she talked about everything from whether a pig should give birth standing up or laying down, criticizing Mace on some funding, government funding that I think she must have voted for at some point, or allegedly voted for, something like that.

But, yeah, just a lot of like, to me, the question that really stuck with me is we asked something about, are you willing to work with the other side, even when it means you're not going to get everything you want as a Republican?

Mace is like, Absolutely.

That's her bread and butter.

That's kind of she sort of feels like I'm in a district that's a little bit of a swing district.

I have to be able to work with Democrats when it's best for South Carolina.

Arrington completely different.

She's like the Democrats are unhinged.

We can't work with them.

This is, you know, basically we have to sort of, we can't compromise, and so that really, to me, sort of showed the biggest differences between the two.

Mace has a conservative voting record.

She's endorsed some policies like legalization of marijuana.

This may be a little bit out of step with her conservative voting record, but Arrington was, I thought, an effective speaker.

She could command the room, but sort of when you look deeper at some of her answers, you know, she was, you know, definitely singing from the Donald J. Trump, hymnal or playbook whichever ...metaphor you like.

<Gavin> Yeah, definitely, since she is endorsed by him, backed by him, and you know, I think Gibbs one thing that really stood out to me too, is that, you know, maybe they're trying to get each other off their game, I think both women managed to kind of stay in their lane and keep their own energy and cool in their own ways.

It seemed like it did get heated towards the end, and one thing that really stood out to me was kind of going back to the debate from the Statehouse talking about the 2017 gas tax debate, which, you know, a lot of Republicans took issue with, you know, stop talking about it being like the biggest tax increase in the state's history, things like that, and Mace just really hammering Katie on that, and it seemed like, you know, you can really kind of draw some conclusions from that and how that you can actually pinpoint something besides me besides Arrington, saying, Oh, we can blame Katie, we can blame Nancy for all these problems.

Whereas, you know, Nancy was actually picking one and really drilling down on it.

<Gibbs> Yeah.

I mean, Nancy Mace is like, Look, I'm the only conservative on this stage.

I'm, going to keep your taxes low.

Katie Arrington supported the biggest tax increase in history.

So I thought she was really effective on that, and then Nancy Mace, to me was also really strong, when she said, Look, I've beat a Democrat, I can beat a Democrat again.

You didn't beat a Democrat.

and so I'm a better candidate for this district, and so I just I'm so fascinated by this race, because it's races like this, that are ultimately going to decide whether it's going to be the Democrats in control of the House or the Republicans in control of the House.

So obviously, these are playing out around the country, but you know, this will be the type a race that if a Republican can win a race like this, they've got a pretty good chance of electing a Republican speaker.

If not, then it's a chance for the Democrats to hold on.

So you know, it's just really interesting to see that playing out right in our backyard right here in South Carolina.

<Gavin> Yeah, we got to get to the primary first June 14, but then we'll definitely see what happens in the general, but Gibbs really wrapping up on this debate before I move on to other topics, do you think there was a clear winner?

Or do you think in the eyes of their followers they were both the winners?

<Gibbs> I think they were both the winners.

I mean, Arrington got in the jabs and sort of, you know, got in the one liners that I think will make her supporters very, very happy.

You know, for the Mace folks.

I mean, they like her.

They like her fiscal conservatism, but they like her willingness to reach across the aisle and think she's just a great fit for SC 1, and so I think they both... probably had folks that felt like they did well.

I don't think there was a real clear winner, but it definitely is going to give - The Democrats have already started to run ads, you know, compiling together some of the parts of the debate, and so it's definitely given, you know, a lot of a lot of room for criticism from folks who didn't like what they heard on stage, on Monday night.

<Gavin> And then we saw on Tuesday former President Donald Trump reiterating his support for Katie Arrington on a video on Twitter.

Really short one, but just really kind of, you know, boosting her support.

So I'm guessing really taking out all the steps now as we get in the final stretch here, but I want to talk to you about Dr. Annie Andrews, that Charleston pediatrician who's the only Democrat on the ticket.

So she's advanced to go essentially.

She'll be there in November facing off whoever wins this June 14th primary.

But how do you see Andrews right now?

I know it's,- still the primary season, but, you know, whoever wins this is going to face her.

She's a political newcomer, what's your take on her at this point?

<Gibbs> She participated in the College of Charleston bully pulpit series.

So, I got to sit down with her for about an hour on stage and ask her some questions of my own, and then we went to audience questions.

And I mean, you know, she's an extremely compelling candidate.

I mean, she's, you know, somebody who works for MUSC, like you said, as a pediatrician, and she has a very evidence based science based approach to her thinking, which is, you know, very different than a lot of what's going on out in American politics right now, certainly on the right, and so, I think that, that's an interesting dynamic.

She's, you know, very, I think, has a really good social media strategy.

She's out, you know, all the time talking about, you know, she can weigh in, and then she's also done a lot of her own research and kind of, as I can tell, kind of what her expertise within the medical field is, is gun violence and, you know, children who - and particularly the impacts of guns on young people, and so, you know, obviously with what happened in Texas on Tuesday, you know, she can really speak to those issues.

So I think she's...really an ideal candidate for the Democrats in a lot of ways.

You know, ultimately she's going to have to raise some money, and it's just not a district that setting up even, you know, with redistricting.

It's slightly more Republican than it was when Joe Cunningham won in 2018, and last to Nancy Mace in 2020.

So that's an additional battle that she's going to have to overcome, but you know, she's able to not spend money, keep her powder dry, and, you know, gear up for whoever she goes up against Mace or Arrington in November.

<Gavin> Gibbs, this whole primary is really just based off of the issues surrounding Republicans and their allegiance to Donald Trump, specifically, supporting his false claims that the election was stolen in 2020, then also, how they reacted to January 6th.

You know, we saw a Nancy Mace be very critical of the president for January 6th.

We saw Tom Rice in the 7th congressional district vote for impeachment of the president for inciting insurrection.

So, how do you see all that playing into these primaries?

Maybe here and elsewhere, when it comes to just the role of the stop the steal plays?

<Gibbs> It's a referendum on Trump and kind of where Republican voters in South Carolina are on this rhetoric right now, and you know, when you see, you know, in a place like Alabama, you know, Trump may still have a good bit of sway.

What we saw in our neighboring state of Georgia, though, is that, you know, the Trump backed candidates didn't do as well.

You know, somebody who studies the south and thinks about South Carolina, kind of in the context of the larger region, I think we're probably a little closer to Georgia than Alabama, but we're probably somewhere in the middle, and so that's what I really am curious to see.

You know, I'm curious to see how it plays out statewide.

We'll see that with the governor's race, but also how it plays out in the 1st congressional district, and again, I think, I think Mace is a stronger general election candidate for the Republicans for this particular district.

Katie Arrington obviously disagrees with me, and she talked about that on stage, but you know, it's been going to really be interesting to see how much sort of the stop the steal, you know, not necessarily as critical of January 6th, you know, that's going to win out among South Carolina's Republican voters here in a couple of weeks.

<Gavin> Yeah, because Trump has had a pretty good track record when it comes to the federal candidates he's endorsed and talking about House members, and that's, you know, Russell Fry in the 7th, Katie Arrington even, you know, William Timmons up in the 4th Congressional District too.

So we'll see how that plays out if it maintains that track record, but yeah, anything else you glean from...the primaries over there in Georgia, with David - Brian Kemp, blowing out David Perdue, and then also the Secretary of State's race, which is also something to watch?

<Gibbs> Yeah, just so you know, really, and Georgia is a different state.

Georgia has two Democrats in the Senate right now in the US Senate ...representing that state.

But yeah, just at how, you know, the Trump backed candidates, you know, not only - I figured it would be a little bit closer.

I was surprised that Kemp did as well as he did, that Secretary of State did as well as he did, and so I've been I think Georgia has always been a state that is very business oriented.

Atlanta has, you know, tons of tons of commerce, and many, many companies, and they always tend to focus on okay, what's good for business, and it seems like Kemp was able to, you know, really kind of, you know, make a better case to Georgia Republicans, and not, sort of breakaway - sort of breaking away from the president in a way that, you know, I didn't necessarily anticipate, and it could be a sign for what we're going to see in South Carolina, a little bit as well.

<Gavin> ...Gibbs, just to kind of start wrapping up here.

I want to talk about the Winthrop poll that came out this week from your good colleague, Scott Huffmon up there at Winthrop University a political science professor and the poll director there, and one of the big findings from his poll was that the general population that he polled found that 47% of respondents said the 2020 presidential election was fair 45% said it wasn't, kind of going back to what we're talking about here, but stopping the steal.

What do you see for the future of our country or state when you start seeing numbers like that, and people really believing that the 2020 election wasn't fair?

<Gibbs> It makes me really worried.

I mean, you have to have, you know, faith in the election system, and when people start to question that, and obviously, when, you know, it's like sports or anything else, if you know, when your team loses, you never, you're always going to blame it on the refs or the umpires, or the system, you know, it sort of becomes, you know, sort of integrity in the system and faith and belief in the system is lost, and so, those numbers were concerning to me, and obviously, you know, you just, I mean, look, I mean, there are certain, you know, there are errors and no one's questioning, Republicans aren't questioning when Republicans won.

Their questioning when it was really, really closer when Democrats won.

Is our election system perfect.

Of course, it's not perfect.

There's always ways for improvement in both sides and to come together and make sure the right people are voting...but overall when people, serious people, nonpartisan people have studied it and looked at it, you know, there's there's very little evidence of widespread voter fraud, and there's really very little evidence, if any, that voter fraud is changing election outcomes, and so, let's continue to figure out how to make it better, but you know, South Carolina voters can feel confident that their vote counts, and that there's not some kind of underlying scheme to sort of have one party, advance one party over the other.

>> Yeah, we just saw that Voter Election, early voting bill and Election Integrity bill just get signed into law too.

So, early voting on May 31.

Yeah, and just really quick Gibbs, just two more numbers that we saw 55% of those polled approve of how Governor McMaster is doing his job.

So, I'm guessing that bodes well for him in an election year like this, as does Tim Scott, who's still remains the most popular Republican in the state with a 66% approval rating, and not too far behind was Nikki Haley too, at 63%.

>> Tim Scott is amazing.

I always feel like Tim Scott and Nikki Haley are always neck and neck on who's more popular.

Lindsey Graham makes enough Republicans mad that he sometimes is a little bit behind them, but yeah, I mean, McMaster, he's an incumbent.

He's, you know, done well, in previous elections.

He's not facing, he's going to be able to not he's not, you know, having to spend a lot of money to feed off a challenge in the primary, and so for all those reasons, you know, he's, certainly.the favorite.

You know, we have Democratic governors.

There's a Democratic governor in Kentucky, Democratic governor in Louisiana, Democratic governor in North Carolina.

Democrats can win in the south, but it's been an awful long time in South Carolina.

So, I think, you know, certainly McMaster has to feel pretty good about his chances in November.

<Gavin> Yeah, that 10% margin when he won the last time, so a lot to be made up there for Democrats this fall, but thank you, Gibbs Knotts.

He's the Dean of the School of Humanities and Social Sciences at the College of Charleston, and he's going to be joining me and Scott Huffmon on primary night June 14 at 8pm on ETV, we'll have live analysis and coverage from around the state.

So again, thank you, Gibbs.

<Gibbs> Thanks, Gavin.

<Gavin> Joining me now to discuss the summer tourism season is Duane Parrish.

He's Director of the Department of Parks, Recreation and Tourism in South Carolina.

Duane, thanks for coming back.

>> Thank you Gavin.

Glad to be here.

<Gavin> So Duane, let's talk about the tourism industry in South Carolina.

It's one of our biggest ones in the state.

How are things going?

Tell us how things are have been going so far since the recovery since the pandemic.

...Now that we're about to kick off Memorial Day weekend, which is obviously the kickoff for summer.

<Duane> Things are going very well.

If you'd asked me a year ago, they're much better than I expected.

2021, while sort of up and down a little bit, finished very, very strong.

Outdoor recreation became sort of the preferred engagement for people traveling.

That's still the case today, and that includes everything from golf to canoeing, to fishing, to boating, to kayaking, to camping, to hiking, and we are state sort of known for those things.

So that's been very, very popular.

2022 has started out.

Yeah, I've learned not to try to predict too much, but it could be a record year for us.

As bad as 2020 was, 2022 looks the other way.

>> Gotcha, and then when we're looking at the revenues, I mean, how did last year shape up?

And do you think kind of what you're saying I know you don't want to predict anything, but maybe what you're looking at in terms of spring break, maybe early bookings for summer, how things are looking right now?

<Duane> Things look very good for the summer.

You know, the AAA has even said that, you know, it's maybe the best Memorial Day weekend ever, for people traveling.

I certainly believe that particularly in the south.

Our gas prices are still, while high, are still low compared to some other parts of the country.

I do believe the $5 dollar mark may cause some pause with people, but not stop travel.

We haven't been above five in the southeast, really, but so far it really has not slowed down at all.

Future reservations look very good for both Memorial Day weekend and throughout the summer.

I expect that to continue, at least for the next three to six months through the spring and early fall.

2022 should be a record year for tourism barring some unforeseen circumstance.

Now you never know what's out there, whether it be COVID or a hurricane or the likes but so far so good.

Knock on wood.

<Gavin> It's encouraging to hear.

How was our spring break Duane looking back?

Can you maybe make any assumptions based on what we saw this year?

<Duane> Yeah, very strong.

Hotel occupancy was mixed sort of mirrored 2019 statewide, even stronger on the coast.

What's changed dramatically, is hotel room rates are up significantly from spring of 2019.

Hotels have, you know, demand has been very strong and you know, we're in a - You know...when demand is strong the rates are going to go up.

That's what's happened, and of course, now you have gas prices and inflation and other things have gone up, but certainly expect to spend more but you're going to have a great time, because if you've been cooped up for a year, it's a great time to get out and enjoy some of what South Carolina has to offer.

<Gavin> ...the how hospitality industry itself, workers that's really strongly rebounded as well, from what you're saying?

<Duane> It has rebounded some, you know, still our biggest challenge, we're still not quite at the employment we had prior to COVID, but getting closer.

Wages have gone up about 23%, in the hospitality and leisure category, things like that, you know, making people feel more valued.

We've done some workforce housing in places along the coast, in our industry, some new things are being tried, I think that are helping the employment situation, but it's not.

It's a... complicated issue, and we'll take some complex resolutions to fix it.

<Gavin> So Duane your saying things are pretty encouraging right now, especially with the economy with inflation going the way it is, gas prices are averaging about $4.27 a gallon right now in the state, like you said, one of the lower prices in the southeast.

How does that affect some of these, you know, these driving markets that you guys always talk about and taught about when it comes to affecting tourism here?

<Duane> Oh, you know, it actually helped the airline prices, it typically followed because the jet fuel price goes up as well, and that's the case here.

Fortunately, for South Carolina, about 80% of the people fly, excuse me drive into the state, and so we're typically what's called a drive market state and we market outside - we've expanded that market.

It used to be a 350 mile radius.

Now it goes out about 700 miles from the market out, even all the way up into the Northeast and the Midwest for the drive market, particularly interstate travel, you know, I-77 goes all the way up into Ohio and in the Midwest, and that helps us as a state for that drive market in Myrtle Beach, Charleston, Hilton Head all strong brands that are well known in the Midwest and the Northeast.

<Gavin> Yeah, Duane, let's ask, do you guys have an ideal profile of a visitor to our state?

Have we expanded that profile?

We've seen more folks from the Northeast, like New York, New Jersey, especially since the pandemic, maybe they got turned on to the state because of, you know, looser restrictions down here?

<Duane> Yeah, exactly.

They were exposed.

Two things have happened.

We've always had a high profile, I think with the Midwest and the Northeast.

What's happened is they visit here more frequently now because, particularly when COVID started and then a lot of them realized that they could live and work here and so a lot of bought real estate and so real estate, obviously it's very strong, particularly along the coast, but when you can work from home, but I always tell people they...didn't buy real estate without becoming a visitor first, and so they visited, had a great experience and said hey, I want to live here, work here, play here, and that's a lot of what's happened to us and we've been - which is why we've been the second highest migration state in the United States.

>> When we look at other forms of travel, I know you're talking about a lot of drive in markets.

How have the air traffic how's that rebounded, especially international air traffic now?

>> Air traffic in South Carolina is almost at the same level, it was pre-COVID, and in some cases Myrtle Beach in Charleston, there's actually more direct flights to cities than there were pre-COVID.

Airlines realized they move planes to where people will fly.

When business travel was still down, they moved to leisure markets like Charleston and Myrtle Beach, and then that's still.the case today, and then we have new... airlines like Breeze Airways, which was introduced, I think, almost 10 cities directly from Charleston, which has helped add to the capacity as well as the destinations.

<Gavin> Duane, looking more towards what we have here in the state, the outdoors, especially, state parks really took off during the pandemic.

I want to ask you about just how you guys are keeping up with the popularity of the state parks.

What's maybe in the budget?

What do you expect to see to improve these conditions because they have become so popular?

<Duane> They have as soon as we reopened in May of 2020.

We had people waiting at the gates and that's still the case today.

State parks have been extremely busy, very popular.

We had been spending the last several years catching up on deferred maintenance, and that's still the case today.

We also have five new parks coming in the next couple of years, which will help with some capacity.

They're spread out throughout the state, but really excited about state parks.

They've become as I mentioned earlier, preferred engagement for a lot of travelers.

We have a lot to offer in state parks.

<Gavin> And then of course, like you're saying, five new state parks, that's pretty exciting to add to the repertoire.

<Duane> Yeah, very much.

So, it is we are fortunate to get - we have one on Lake Murray in the middle of state.

We have one in Misty Lake, which is up in the Aiken area, Ramsey Grove, which is down in the Georgetown area and we have May Forest, which is a former convent that overlooks the Charleston Harbor, and then we have the Black River Project, which is actually a series of seven different sites along the Black River that are connected by water, which is a little bit new for us.

That's a state park unlike any other we have today, but really excited about getting that open next year, and if you're into kayaking, paddling into a special place along the river, that's a great place to go.

<Gavin> Very exciting news to hear, and of course, you know, you guys had some big priorities from the pandemic, as well, in terms of marketing grants for a lot of these different places throughout the state.

Not necessarily the big cities, but the smaller cities too.

I think some of those have been recently awarded.

What do you guys hoping to do with those grants to try and drive traffic to smaller markets in the state?

<Duane> Well, when the federal government, you know, of course the Cares Act, and then the ARPA funds that are in place now, the state was gracious enough to allow us, legislature and the governor's office to spend 20 million, that spread was spread throughout the state and kind of gave us a leg up on our surrounding states, and we certainly did well, particularly with the outdoor engagement that I mentioned a moment ago.

You know, now the other states have those funds, too, and so the marketing is imperative that we maintain, at least maintain our fair share, if not increase it, but we'll certainly put that in place.

With today's digital world, we can, you know, we can make moves and be very nimble and change our target or our message on the fly almost, and in just different markets that we haven't been to before we move on.

I'll give you one quick example, Texas.

I never marketed really there before.

We did some of that with some of the extra funds, and it wasn't a large percent of the population but Texas has a lot of people.

So that was a big number for us.

Texans love South Carolina.

So, we're going to continue to do that.

<Gavin> Exciting things on the horizon there for parks and of course tourism of the state.

That's Duane Parrish.

He's Director of State Parks, Recreation and Tourism here in South Carolina.

Thanks, Duane.

>> Thank you, Gavin.

<Gavin> To stay up to date with the latest news throughout the week.

Check out the South Carolina Lede.

It's a podcast that I host on Tuesdays and Saturdays that you can find on South Carolina public radio.org or wherever you find podcasts.

For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.

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