Funding for “To the Contrary” Provided by: Coming up on “To the Contrary,” Vice President Harris and Donald Trump square off.

We recap the debate and look towards who will next occupy the White House and why.

Hello, I'm Bonnie Erbé.

Welcome “To the Contrary,” a discussion of news and social trends from diverse perspectives.

Today's topics: The debate behind us and the road to the White House in some 50 short days.

First the debate.

She smiled and at times looked pensive.

She constantly addressed her opponent.

He scowled continuously down into the camera and didn't look at her.

And answer after answer, the former president reminded Americans of his role in what could be described as his worst performances as president.

The Covid pandemic under his watch that killed 1.1 million Americans.

His false claim the 2020 election was stolen from him.

A bloody siege on the U.S. Capitol and the fall of Roe v. Wade.

He also lingered on his criminal charges and praised Viktor Orbán, the strongman leader of Hungary.

He promoted a lie that immigrants in Ohio are eating their neighbor's dogs and cats and recycled years old anti-abortion attack lines that Democrats supported execution after birth.

Joining us to discuss this are former U.S. Representative Donna Edwards, Linda Chavez of the center for Equal Opportunity, Carrie Sheffield of the Independent Women's Forum, and Sam Bennett of the Amsterdam News.

Donna Edwards, let's start with you.

A flash poll showed that 63% of people who were watching the debate and were asked questions by CNN afterwards believe that Kamala Harris won the debate, the remainder going to Donald Trump, 37.

So who do you think won?

Well, debate night was a very good night for Vice President Kamala Harris.

I think that from the beginning she took command and control of the stage, she owned the debate.

She had Donald Trump really on his heels over and over again, very defensive.

I think that, you know, what's happening here is that America is actually really, in some ways, seeing the vice president for the first time.

She had a heavier lift, I think.

Her heavy lift was that she had to defy expectations, that she was, is coming off of, you know, a situation where, people don't know her very well in a very short period of time.

And any one misstep really could have been a disaster for the vice president.

And, frankly, none of that happened.

She showed command of the issues and she was in command of that stage.

All right.

And Carrie Sheffield, your thoughts about Trump and his performance?

Yeah, I thought he had a very strong performance.

I think he called out repeatedly the economic failures of the Biden-Harris administration, the fact that she cast the tie-breaking vote for the Inflation Reduction Act, which economists say significantly contributed through government spending to the record 20% inflation that we've seen under this White House.

And so I thought he did a great pointing that out.

I think he also did a solid job in calling out her hypocrisy when it comes to the Middle East and foreign policy and the the bloodshed that came at the hands of her administration.

The fact I love to tell that she was the last person in the room for the Afghanistan decision that directly led to the murder of 13 U.S. service people.

So I thought he put her on defense on many issues and again, reminded people over and over of the economic constriction.

The reality is that, according to Real Clear Politics, three-quarters of Americans say the U.S. is on the wrong track.

Alright.

Let's get Linda in here.

Linda, your thoughts?

Who won?

I don't know what debate Carrie was watching.

Donald Trump did not win that debate.

He was his usual untruthful, unhinged, angry, grievance-filled self.

And I will tell you, he may have a base that is in the high 30s, low 40s and they will stick with him even if he were to walk down Fifth Avenue, as he once claimed, and shoot somebody.

But for the rest of America, for those people who are really looking for leadership, he was a disaster.

I mean, his going off on tangents about migrants eating dogs.

We'll get to that in a minute.

We'll get to that one.

But, you know, so much of these debates depend on the visuals.

And if you look back, I'm old enough to have seen the Nixon-Kennedy debate.

And I will tell you that, you know, Nixon may have won the debate on points, on debating points, but he lost the debate because of the way he looked and the way he presented himself.

Right.

And, as they say, he won it on radio.

He lost it on television.

That's exactly right.

Because he was perspiring so badly.

Right.

And Trump didn't win it on either because frankly, you know, there was a lot of talk about cognitive decline from Joe Biden but the person we've seen real cognitive decline with in this race is Donald Trump.

All right.

I want to get Sam in here.

Your thoughts, Sam, who won?

And will it translate into more voters for the person who won?

Perfectly, perfectly poised question.

I think the most important thing about this debate is will it persuade undecided voters?

That's what this debate was about.

And undecided voters overwhelmingly say what they care about is unity.

What they care about is they want to see a candidate that can talk about what they're going to do.

They're interested in hearing about plans and policy.

In both those areas, Kamala Harris knocked it out of the park and in both those areas, Trump failed miserably, unfortunately.

Not unfortunate, I support Kamala, obviously, but what Trump did was speak in the negative.

He was divisive.

He didn't talk about unity at all.

And also, Kamala used this as a moment to reinforce those messages that have fueled the momentum that she had directly after President Biden handed the baton to her, which is we can do this.

Let's not go back.

She reinforced all of her key campaign points.

She looked great.

But I think most importantly, she talked to the undecided voters in a remarkably disciplined way.

Well, we'll have to wait a while to see what the polls show about that.

But next question.

What about that incident that Linda mentioned where he said that immigrants in Ohio were eating people's dogs?

Very quickly, one sentence response from each of you, please.

The moderators did, David Muir, did an amazing job of holding him accountable.

Fact checked him.

Yes.

It was a frankly, it was a frankly racist trope.

He was talking about Haitian immigrants.

And I'm sorry, Haitians don't eat dogs.

Donna.

Look, I think it's hard to make sense of a lot of what Donald Trump says, but that remark in particular went to his basest instincts.

And I think that the American people really could see him for what he is.

And, frankly, that's just not language that we are used to hearing from presidents.

And he was, again, very unpresidential.

Carrie, your thoughts.

Well, I thought it was an example of the moderators being very biased because they've fact checked him but they refused to fact check Kamala Harris.

She lied about the Charlottesville comments from Donald Trump, completely lied about the context of his comments, and they did nothing.

They also refused to press her on whether she supports any limit on abortion up until birth.

They asked her at one time, she obfuscated, never actually answered the question.

Over and over, she refused to answer any question.

So it was clear bias from the perspective of a Republican of these moderators.

Alright.

And it was said on CNN, you know, there were claims that he said that the debate was not fair.

And on MSNBC, there was a report he got five more minutes than she did.

So that was kind of interesting.

I thought people would want to know that.

What about Trump's comments on race?

Donna, you start there.

What did you think?

You know, it's hard to make of it.

I think Kamala Harris actually took exactly the right point that she did both in her previous interview but also in the debate, where why is it up to Donald Trump to define somebody else's identity?

I mean, it's really, it was actually quite offensive.

And whether you're Kamala Harris or not, you're one of the millions and millions of Americans who are in biracial families and families with multiple identities.

His comments are just absolutely offensive.

And so I guess if the strategy was to turn off more voters than you turn on, it worked.

Bonnie, Can I respond to the five more minutes about Trump?

Because I think it was five minutes of the moderators going after him, which feeds into what Siobhan said about the fact that Trump was defensive because the moderators were going after him for five extra.

No, he actually had five more minutes of speaking time.

I know, but what I'm saying is it was the moderators going after him so he seemed defensive.

Alright.

Lets move on from the debate to the homestretch.

Sam, what is, Kamala Harris need to win between now and the 50 or so days left in this campaign?

Absolutely.

Well, having had the privilege to be the GOtv chair in one of the most important swing regions in the country, PA 15, in this very important swing state, Pennsylvania.

It boils down to get out to vote, honestly.

The endorsement from Taylor Swift.

That's a beautiful add on.

Other endorsements, I remember how powerful Oprah Winfreys leaning in hard in Obama's race made a big difference, you know, by the time we got to Election Day.

But what really matters is on the ground Election Day efforts and leading up to that, as we always say, on my side of the fence, you know, Republicans wake up in the morning and they know it's Election Day and they go and vote.

Democrats you have to remind, remind, remind.

Now talk about the ground games that they both have.

And briefly two sentences.

Absolutely.

His and hers.

Trump disorganized, not well executed.

Hers, I have been startled by how quickly she's opened her field offices and how remarkably well organized they are.

It's comparable to, comparable to me, to what Obama pulled off.

Alright, Carrie Sheffield, same question to you.

What does Trump have to do now to win?

And what about his ground game.

Yeah.

So well, the Achilles heel for Republicans in this new post-Covid age is early voting.

That's where Democrats clean up.

And so Republicans need to focus on that.

And I've been glad to see that Trump and the Trump campaign has been way more open overall compared to the last couple elections.

And so they need to keep doing that.

I think also the focus on the Electoral College is really smart and strategic.

RealClearPolitics at this moment has the Electoral College with no toss ups with Trump winning 281 to 257 for Kamala Harris.

And so Nate Silver as well said that Trump is positioned to win more electoral votes than Kamala Harris.

We are a 50 state country.

We're based on the Greek model of federalism, where states matter.

And so keep doing that.

But ,again, focus on the early voting because yes, you can go and vote on Election Day and Republicans do that, but you can't make up in one day what people have been doing for a month or two months.

Okay.

Linda, your thoughts on what Harris or Trump need to do to win and the ground game.

Well, first of all, a good debate performance will not win the election for Kamala Harris.

And Carrie is right that the polls really are a toss up now when you look at the national polls, but the national polls don't matter.

Yeah.

Its the state by state polls.

And the state that is critical right now is Pennsylvania.

I do think that if Kamala Harris So is Georgia, though, right?

Well, Georgia's yeah.

But Pennsylvania is, you know, it's more votes there.

And they absolutely must win it.

And I think if Kamala Harris loses this election, people are going to look back and say, she should have picked Josh Shapiro as her running mate because I think he would have made a difference in Pennsylvania.

But the get out the vote plans that the Republicans have, they had sort of subcontracted this to a lot of grifters, including the people over at the Turning Points USA.

Yeah.

There's talk in the, there is talk in the mainstream media that they are taking the money and not spending it on what they're supposed to spend it on.

And a lot of Republicans have given quotes to places like The New York Times saying they're really worried about his ground game.

Anyway, Donna.

Look, Kamala Harris has a lot of advantages going into these next several weeks.

Number one, she has a money advantage.

She is raising money hand over fist.

She inherited a campaign operation and ground operation from the Biden campaign, where there were literally hundreds and hundreds of offices open across the country and particularly focused in about a half dozen of these swing states.

She has multiple surrogates who can go out on her behalf all across the country.

And I think in this home stretch that's going to be very important.

She can't be all places at all times.

And I think she just needs to stick to the plan.

She's proven herself to be a very disciplined campaigner, very disciplined on message, very, you know, responsive on message.

And I think that needs to continue in the next several weeks.

And, frankly, for Donald Trump, he has to figure out that elections and voting is about addition and not subtraction.

And thus far, he's been doing an awful lot of subtraction, and it's hard to see where he's beginning to add votes.

Particularly speaking to those independent voters and to a lot of Republicans who are very conflicted right now.

And, for Kamala Harris, these endorsements that have come from the likes of Dick Cheney and Liz Cheney and Republicans against Trump and, you know, a whole array of national security folks really is going to help her in the end to bring across these middle-range voters.

Okay.

Now I want to go to the elephant in the room.

Race and gender.

Is America ready for a black woman president?

Or are we still stuck, many of us in the 50s and thinking that separate is equal is okay in our school systems?

I'll weigh in on this.

Look, I was concerned about whether or not race would be a factor.

But I was also thinking that race was going to be a factor in 2008.

And Barack Obama won that election handily, and he won reelection.

But he was also a man.

He was a man.

That's right.

And, I'll tell you, one of the things that she did very well on the debate stage, which is important, is she assumed the role of commander-in-chief.

She talked with authority about foreign policy, about defense.

And I think that is always one of the concerns, with a female candidate, you have to show that you can be tough and in control without coming across in a way that turns off voters.

And she's been able to do that.

Look, it is going to be a tight race.

And so, you know, you only need a handful of people in a handful of important states to say it's a road too far to vote for a black woman.

I hope Americans beyond that, I think it is.

Do you think, Sam, do you think it is?

I think it remains to be answered.

But what I will say in the debate, she came off brilliantly.

Her prosecutorial skills give her that ability to fight down the schoolyard bully, which is Trump.

And I think that translates well for her.

You have a candidate like Trump who just speaks falsehoods in every other sentence, right?

He does.

And who speaks in such a terrible way, having someone like Kamala in her prosecutorial way call him on it gives her a unique opportunity because then she's the protector, which is a strong role for women.

And as we all know, executive office is one of the hardest offices for women to get elected to.

But I think because, again, her background, how she speaks and honestly with Trump as the opponent, I think that she has a winning chance to do this.

Donna, let's get to the age issue.

It was an issue for Joe Biden who dropped out because of it.

And Trump is not many years behind him, and some people say that his mental acuity is deteriorating.

Does he have an age issue?

Well, I think that Trump's advanced age and his cognitive ability and his reasoning, or lack of it, were on full display.

Both have been across the, you know, throughout the campaign and on the campaign trail, but definitely in the debate.

And so I think that's going to be increasingly a concern.

And one of the things that you get when you have that split screen is that Kamala Harris was able to demonstrate that she is the generation going forward and Trump is the past.

And that was on full display at the debate.

Okay and Carrie.

Thank you.

And, Carrie, your thoughts on the age issue and Trump.

Well, I think that the Harris campaign should tread lightly because senior voters are a potent voting block.

And so if they want to attack Donald Trump for his age, I think that that is going to backfire.

In terms of the gender, Kamala Harris claims to care for women, but her policies.

Oh, but wait a second.

What about when Trump was attacking Biden on age?

Well, I think it's very clear that with Joe Biden, he was shaking hands with ghosts.

He was calling on dead reporters.

He was referring to people in, a congresswoman who had been deceased.

His gaffes were legend, and that's why he had to resign.

So it's a very different situation.

I don't think it's close.

As someone whose father has, my father has Alzheimer's and dementia to see Joe Biden in the way he spoke, very similar.

I don't see that from Donald Trump.

And as far as the women situation, Kamala Harris policies are terrible for women.

When it comes to, for example, senior women, she cast the deciding vote on the Inflation Reduction Act, which is now rating.

Okay, but let's not get off the age issue.

Let me, Linda, your thoughts on the age issue.

She's raiding Medicare Part D with the Inflation Reduction Act.

Look it up.

The Inflation Reduction Act is work by raiding Medicare Part D, which hurts seniors who are heavily female.

Okay.

Linda, your thoughts on the age issue?

I do think that age was an issue for Joe Biden.

And I do think that that's the reason he's not the candidate anymore.

But it is clearly an issue for Donald Trump.

Donald Trump doesn't look feeble in the way that Joe Biden did.

But, you know, Carrie talked about dementia.

I've had a mother-in-law who ended up dying from Alzheimer's.

I've been around people with dementia.

And there are many things that Donald Trump does that remind me of this.

There's the loop, that he speaks And, I mean, you certainly see it at his rallies.

He also seems not to be able to understand the difference between reality and something he sees on the screen.

Certainly that's true with the Hannibal Lecter, the way in which he brings that up.

He seems to think that when they talk about asylum, that they're talking about people from so-called insane asylums being dumped into the United States.

He seems very confused.

And as far as messing up names, I mean, he has done that legend.

He thought that, you know, he was in the primaries running against Nancy Pelosi.

He seems to think that he defeated Barack Obama, not Hillary Clinton.

He's very confused.

All right.

And, Sam, Kamala Harris has been hitting the abortion issue in a way I've not seen it addressed since before and leading up to Roe.

A woman's right to choose.

That phrase has not been used in decades.

It's fell out of fashion.

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

I think she wouldn't be doing it unless it was a good idea.

I think the polling and the reality out there with all these states putting abortion on their ballots, the states that, who knew that Kansas would pass an abortion on the ballot.

And let me just point out there it was seven ballot initiatives in 2022, the midterms, and abortion rights won in all seven of them.

So go ahead.

Exactly, so I think she has the fuel that she needs.

She has the research she needs to be free to use it.

The thing that I love, maybe most of all, is the Democrats have re-embraced the word freedom and patriotism, and she has put that freedom, women's reproductive freedoms under that banner.

And I think that is thrilling.

And overdue.

Okay, Carrie, let's start with you.

Well, let me go to you on that question.

Is abortion a good issue for her?

And then we are about out of time, so please keep it short.

Well, I think Sam actually repeated what Donald Trump said, which was that you give it to the states and then that is actually lowercase democratic to allow the people to decide, which is what his court decision by putting those justices allowed to happen.

I think that that is more lowercase democratic on abortion.

But again, Kamala Harris refuses to put any limits at all.

During the debate, they try to pin on her.

Do you support any limits?

She refused to respond.

And the reason why is because she's.

No, she said, she said she would accept the limits of Roe v. Wade, which was different rights for a second and third trimester.

So that's not, that I saw.

There were no limits.

That's the thing.

There were no limits.

There were limits that there was would there were the state interest limits.

Which is exactly what Donald Trump is arguing for, the state limits and the idea that there would be, there was no federal law in place.

And so you can't make up a law with a Supreme Court ruling that didn't exist.

And that's why it had to go.

That's why Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that Roe v. Wade was poorly decided.

It was sloppy law.

It had to go.

And so Donald Trump is absolutely right.

And the truth of the matter is, we've actually had more abortions in 2023 than before Roe v. Wade fell.

So this notion that there is no abortion access is a lie.

And the fact that, the truth of the matter is Kamala Harris does not care for the bodily integrity of women.

And that's what Trump needs to point out.

Her Title IX rewrite would put males in locker rooms, allow men to assault women in sports.

You can't say you care for women when you want men to physically bodily harm women.

Were out of time.

And thank you all for your pungent and insightful observations.

That's it for this edition.

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