<b>Welcome to Party Politics</b> <b>where we</b> <b>prepare you for your next</b> <b>political conversation.</b> <b>I'm Jeronimo Cortina, professor</b> <b>at the University of Houston.</b> <b>And I'm Brandon Rottinghaus, also </b> <b>professor</b> <b>here at the University</b> <b>of Houston.</b> <b>Obviously, politics gets</b> <b>a little bit crazy and,</b> <b>you know, it's going to</b> <b>come out at the next dinner</b> <b>party or cocktail hour.</b> <b>So let's talk about all the</b> <b>things that are happening.</b> <b>The big news of the week,</b> <b>obviously, Jeronimo, is that</b> <b>Ken Paxton, the attorney</b> <b>general of Texas, was</b> <b>acquitted on all charges</b> <b>during his impeachment trial.</b> <b>I want to get your</b> <b>reaction to this.</b> <b>And so we'll talk all about that</b> <b>in a few minutes.</b> <b>But first, some interesting</b> <b>stuff happening on</b> <b>the national level.</b> <b>So one of the big things of</b> <b>the week was that Mitt Romney,</b> <b>the senator from Utah,</b> <b>is decided not to seek a</b> <b>second term in the Senate.</b> <b>This is pretty stunning</b> <b>for all kinds of reasons.</b> <b>But he had a kind of, I</b> <b>think, a fairly let's say he</b> <b>has he's a kind of nice way</b> <b>of exiting by saying</b> <b>basically that the party</b> <b>had been taken over</b> <b>by this populist</b> <b>messaging, not pointing</b> <b>at anyone in particular.</b> <b>But I think we all</b> <b>know who he's talking about.</b> <b>It's stunning to think that like</b> <b>just like a decade ago,</b> <b>that he was the standard</b> <b>bearer of the party.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>He was the nominee</b> <b>for president.</b> <b>It was like an ocean away.</b> <b>And now,</b> <b>as he says, there's this sort</b> <b>of new force in the American</b> <b>in the Republican Party.</b> <b>So what did you kind of see</b> <b>and what did you sense</b> <b>when when he announced</b> <b>he was retiring?</b> <b>Well, I think he's on the</b> <b>one hand, he's I think a</b> <b>lot of Republicans might be</b> <b>and also Democrats from</b> <b>both sides of the aisle</b> <b>may be completely fed up.</b> <b>And he's like, this is not</b> <b>what I signed for.

Yes.</b> <b>End of story.

Hard</b> <b>not to blame them.

Exactly.</b> <b>That's one point.</b> <b>And I think that's the</b> <b>point behind is it's very</b> <b>hard to find the tide</b> <b>on the one hand, especially</b> <b>when you are fighting people</b> <b>that perhaps in</b> <b>his or their bill,</b> <b>they don't want to sit down</b> <b>and talk about these issues.</b> <b>And then on the other hand,</b> <b>he said, look, I'm 70 something.</b> <b>I'm tired, I'm old.</b> <b>You know, it's time for the new</b> <b>generation of leaders to come in</b> <b>because they're</b> <b>going to be making</b> <b>the decisions that eventually</b> <b>is going to affect their lives.</b> <b>So I think that also</b> <b>sends wink, wink to some</b> <b>members of Congress.</b> <b>He's looking around around the</b> <b>Room as well, saying like, guys,</b> <b>I think it's time</b> <b>for us to go retire and leave</b> <b>it to the younger generation.</b> <b>I thought, wait, I</b> <b>thought you had to be</b> <b>80 to be in the Senate.</b> <b>Oh, I'm sorry.</b> <b>I misinterpreted.

What?

Yeah.</b> <b>Know what the prevailing</b> <b>norm was?

Yeah.</b> <b>He's retiring before.</b> <b>He's 80.

Yeah.

Yeah.</b> <b>A wink and a nod.</b> <b>I think that's interesting.</b> <b>And I like your point that</b> <b>he's, you know, doing what</b> <b>he thinks is best here,</b> <b>but the problem is that he</b> <b>is then going to continue to</b> <b>exacerbate those problems.</b> <b>Right?</b> <b>If the problem is</b> <b>that you don't have senators</b> <b>who were going to</b> <b>kind of be in the room</b> <b>who are going to try to work</b> <b>towards compromise</b> <b>and you leave it to people</b> <b>who are going to come next.</b> <b>I don't think that we're</b> <b>in a generation where the</b> <b>next is going to be more</b> <b>willing to compromise.

Right.</b> <b>In fact, probably</b> <b>just the opposite.</b> <b>Utah is a little different.</b> <b>You know, they tend to elect</b> <b>people who are aren't quite</b> <b>so ideologically rigid.</b> <b>But you just never know.

Right.</b> <b>And the Republican Party</b> <b>these days, there's a</b> <b>chance that could happen.</b> <b>And to be honest,</b> <b>in the Democratic Party, too,</b> <b>one of the things he actually</b> <b>said to or that was rather</b> <b>reported after he said</b> <b>this was that they had</b> <b>floated the idea of</b> <b>running as a third party</b> <b>with Joe Manchin.</b> <b>What do you think about that?</b> <b>And this is really</b> <b>the kind of the</b> <b>heightened notion of how</b> <b>dysfunctional Washington is.</b> <b>We're going to totally</b> <b>reject the party system</b> <b>and run on our own.</b> <b>Right.

So</b> <b>would it work?

No.</b> <b>Okay.

Next question.

Yeah.</b> <b>I mean, as</b> <b>political scientists,</b> <b>We are loathe to see</b> <b>how third parties can</b> <b>function in this country,</b> <b>even though other</b> <b>countries, of course,</b> <b>they function quite well.</b> <b>But it's a really a</b> <b>long shot at that,</b> <b>even with the notoriety</b> <b>of like Joe Manchin and.</b> <b>Well, and you would need</b> <b>the Ross Perot kind of money</b> <b>to have a make a dent</b> <b>in the Electoral College.</b> <b>The Andrew Yang kind</b> <b>of money.

And yet.</b> <b>Or the Pierre Delecto</b> <b>kind of money.</b> <b>Do you remember this?</b> <b>So Mitt Romney had an alternate</b> <b>account on Twitter for a while</b> <b>named Pierre Delecto,</b> <b>and it was discovered</b> <b>I can't remember how it was</b> <b>discovered, but that's going</b> <b>to be my favorite memory.</b> <b>And actually to if you</b> <b>haven't seen it in Netflix,</b> <b>the documentary Mitt,</b> <b>which is about his run</b> <b>in 2012, makes him look</b> <b>like a really good person.</b> <b>So I think that's the kind</b> <b>of thing we should have</b> <b>and celebrate in politics,</b> <b>right?</b> <b>People who are good and who are,</b> <b>you know, committed to</b> <b>their ideals and willing to</b> <b>work with the other side.</b> <b>Hopefully, we're going to</b> <b>get somebody, you know,</b> <b>knock on wood that's going</b> <b>to be like that.

But.</b> <b>Well, we shall see.</b> <b>But speaking of politics,</b> <b>actually here in Texas,</b> <b>Ron DeSantis is the</b> <b>governor of Florida.</b> <b>Running for president, is</b> <b>going to be in Texas on a</b> <b>three day fundraising trip.</b> <b>Some of the notable people</b> <b>involved in this include</b> <b>Chip Roy and Lamar Smith,</b> <b>two members of Congress</b> <b>who have been sort of</b> <b>vocal against Donald Trump.</b> <b>So back to the Texas ATM.</b> <b>He's raised a fair amount of</b> <b>money in Texas, about $2 million</b> <b>last time he was here.</b> <b>So we're likely to see probably</b> <b>him pull a little bit more.</b> <b>But is this going to help</b> <b>his standing in Texas at all?</b> <b>What do you think?

Well, I mean,</b> <b>it's hard to say.</b> <b>It's hard to say.</b> <b>On the one hand,</b> <b>especially given that,</b> <b>you know, former President</b> <b>Trump has such a big, big,</b> <b>big or as he would say, "bigly", huge</b> <b>on the other Republican</b> <b>contenders for the primary.</b> <b>It's hard to say</b> <b>on that on that.</b> <b>What it strikes me of the</b> <b>DeSantis visit is that allegedly</b> <b>his campaign is having some</b> <b>financial difficulties.</b> <b>So coming to Texas to,</b> <b>you know, replenish cash.</b> 122 00:05:57,323 --> 00:05:59,826 <b>The coffers is a very good idea.</b> <b>Just a big bag</b> <b>with a dollar sign.

Exactly.</b> <b>And also to talk</b> <b>about the border.</b> <b>Right.

To talk</b> <b>about immigration.</b> <b>So when you put those things</b> <b>together, maybe it's a</b> <b>signal that the campaign</b> <b>is not doing as well</b> <b>as everybody thought</b> <b>that it would be doing</b> <b>by this time, and</b> <b>especially the big lead.</b> <b>So, you know, for DeSantis to, </b> <b>you know, try</b> <b>to narrow that lead with Trump.</b> <b>He would need a lot of</b> <b>red meat on the one hand.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>Going to the right of</b> <b>Trump on many issues</b> <b>and on the other one, he would</b> <b>need an insane amount of money.</b> <b>Yes, that's a good point.</b> <b>Or a Trump implosion.</b> <b>And I think every member</b> <b>right now who's running is</b> <b>thinking about this idea.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>And we'll talk about this</b> <b>next week when there's</b> <b>a presidential debate</b> <b>right on the Republican side</b> <b>and get a sense of kind of how</b> <b>they're trying to position this.</b> <b>But I think they're all kind of</b> <b>waiting for the Trump implosion.</b> <b>It may not come, right.</b> <b>It may be that he's</b> <b>able to survive this.</b> <b>But if you look at some</b> <b>of the polling in Texas</b> <b>here, strong Republicans</b> <b>believe Trump should run</b> <b>64% of them, which is not a lot,</b> <b>not as much as you'd think.</b> <b>But people who are very strong</b> <b>Republicans or lean</b> <b>Republicans for only 48%</b> <b>say he should run 2024.</b> <b>So there are some waning support</b> <b>for Trump, I think.</b> <b>And it's soft enough</b> <b>that if he does continue to</b> <b>move on this, that it could</b> <b>be troublesome for him.</b> <b>So we'll see how that plays out.</b> <b>That's a very big story</b> <b>and lots of question marks,</b> <b>but obviously relates to a</b> <b>similar matter that Hunter</b> <b>Biden finds himself in.</b> <b>This is the president's son.</b> <b>He was indicted this week on</b> <b>gun charges, setting up a trial</b> <b>that is going to loom</b> <b>over the 2024 election.</b> <b>This is interesting because</b> <b>it's the first time we've seen a</b> <b>a sitting child</b> <b>sitting president's</b> <b>child face criminal prosecution</b> <b>versus your son, First son.</b> <b>Yeah.

Yeah.</b> <b>Interesting.

So</b> <b>it's interesting.</b> <b>I think that the problem for</b> <b>Democrats is that they're going</b> <b>to kind of have this equivalency</b> <b>problem on their hands, right.</b> <b>Where on one hand you've</b> <b>got Donald Trump and all of</b> <b>his legal problems, but then</b> <b>you can have a kind of</b> <b>counterbalance to that where</b> <b>the narrative is that, well,</b> <b>you know, you know,</b> <b>Joe Biden has his own</b> <b>legal problems, right?</b> <b>That and so that equivalency</b> <b>could be really complicated.</b> <b>Right.

It's not as clean,</b> <b>I think, as Democrats</b> <b>would have hoped.</b> <b>And I think Democrats are trying</b> <b>to push back on that narrative</b> <b>that they're the same.

Right.</b> <b>Like we are not the same,</b> <b>but obviously there's going</b> <b>to be some muddying of that.</b> <b>So as a political matter,</b> <b>this is going to be really,</b> <b>I think, a game changer for the</b> <b>Trump admin, the Trump campaign.</b> <b>What do you think.

Unless, right?</b> <b>I mean, I understand</b> <b>the equivalency problem,</b> <b>but unless, you know,</b> <b>the Biden administration</b> <b>takes a, you know,</b> <b>no hands, nothing.</b> <b>Yeah.

Whatever approach.

Right.</b> <b>And lets the Department</b> <b>of Justice and place</b> <b>out this trial.</b> <b>Yeah yeah and he gets you know</b> <b>perhaps, you know</b> <b>convicted jail time</b> <b>you know at least</b> <b>in some instances.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>The maximum</b> <b>prison time is around 25 years.</b> <b>And most of our times</b> <b>they don't get that.</b> <b>Some of the times they</b> <b>get not even prison time.</b> <b>Yeah.</b> <b>So if he if he's found guilty</b> <b>and then no prison time,</b> <b>that's a disaster.</b> <b>Right.

For the Biden.</b> <b>Situation.

Yeah.</b> <b>It's like you're</b> <b>you're protecting your say.</b> <b>Exactly.</b> <b>If he gets some</b> <b>jail time you know</b> <b>it would be while Yes and etc.</b> <b>and he would have to be,</b> <b>you know basically the</b> <b>same jail time that, you</b> <b>know, normal Joe would get.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>So not not not name</b> <b>Biden a normal Joe.</b> <b>Exactly.

</b> <b>So, I mean, it's complicated,</b> <b>but I think that even</b> <b>the Biden administration</b> <b>and so far the Biden</b> <b>administration has signaled</b> <b>like, yeah, you know.</b> <b>We're going to keep</b> <b>our hands off of this.</b> <b>Yeah, that's not the</b> <b>problem of the administration.</b> <b>Yeah, it's his problem</b> <b>as he's that he's worried</b> <b>so on and so forth.</b> <b>Every single person</b> <b>would be.

Yeah.</b> <b>But you know,</b> <b>they're not going to intervene.</b> <b>Yeah.

Talk to his lawyer.</b> <b>It would be just like</b> <b>my kids to get indicted</b> <b>while I was president.</b> <b>Right?

Right.</b> <b>Just again, like, they're</b> <b>just constantly trying</b> <b>to make my life harder.</b> <b>I don't like it.</b> <b>But actually, it's funny</b> <b>because this is not the</b> <b>only time we've seen</b> <b>presidential family in trouble.</b> <b>I was reading Jonathan</b> <b>Alter's book on Jimmy Carter,</b> <b>which is a really great</b> <b>book, but he talks a</b> <b>lot about Billy Carter,</b> <b>who was the president's brother</b> <b>at that point.</b> <b>And Billy Carter had all kinds</b> <b>of different business interests.</b> <b>He eventually got hauled</b> <b>in front of Congress to</b> <b>testify about like lobbying</b> <b>on behalf of Libya.</b> <b>He also made Billy Beer.</b> <b>Remember?

Billy Beer?</b> <b>Yeah, but some of our</b> <b>some of our or our listeners may</b> <b>remember Billy Beer that was</b> <b>so bad that apparently Billy</b> <b>Carter would like empty</b> <b>the Billy Beer and fill the</b> <b>can with vodka instead.</b> <b>So there's definitely</b> <b>a long legacy to this.</b> <b>But, you know, scandals</b> <b>are all around us.</b> <b>And I, you know, have done</b> <b>a lot of research on this and</b> <b>we've talked a lot about this.</b> <b>But another one came up this</b> <b>week, which was sort of bizarre</b> <b>and maybe just sort of on brand</b> <b>for Washington these days.</b> <b>And that was that.</b> <b>Lauren Boebert, who was</b> <b>a member of Congress from</b> <b>Colorado, was kicked</b> <b>out of Beetlejuice for</b> <b>causing a disruption.</b> <b>We're a family station, so</b> <b>I won't get into the details</b> <b>about what was happening.</b> <b>I'm sure people have seen</b> <b>these specific evidence,</b> <b>like after this show,</b> <b>like Sesame Street's</b> <b>On and Wild Kratts.</b> <b>So we all talk about</b> <b>exactly what happened.</b> <b>But suffice it to say that</b> <b>she embarrassed herself.</b> <b>Is it going to matter at all</b> <b>in the body politic here?</b> <b>Let me think for a second.</b> <b>Do we.</b> <b>Need to take a break.</b> <b>And contemplate?</b> <b>Yeah, my answer is</b> <b>no, probably not.</b> <b>No.

Zero.</b> <b>Okay.

So why not?</b> <b>Like what?</b> <b>What's the reason these scandals</b> <b>don't have the kind of impact</b> <b>that do even the Hunter</b> <b>Biden scandal where</b> <b>legitimately there is a</b> <b>crime committed potentially.</b> <b>And this means that you</b> <b>said jail time if he's</b> <b>convicted, this is something</b> <b>that you would assume is a</b> <b>serious thing, but it never</b> <b>ends up being that way.</b> <b>Right.

Why?</b> <b>Well, first of all, we don't</b> <b>live in the 1980s anymore.</b> <b>I do.</b> <b>I know you do.</b> <b>But the problem is,</b> <b>I think is, you know, voters</b> <b>have a very, very, very,</b> <b>very short memory span.</b> <b>So, you know, that's it.

Yeah.</b> <b>The news cycle also plays</b> <b>a very important role, right?</b> <b>I mean, it was Boebert,</b> <b>it was Hunter Biden, etc., etc..</b> <b>Tomorrow, right?</b> <b>There's a new scandal.</b> <b>That's a good.

Point.</b> <b>And that.</b> <b>Ken Paxton and then</b> <b>Donald Trump and then you</b> <b>forgot all about what.</b> <b>Happened.

Exactly.</b> <b>I mean, it's over and</b> <b>over and over and over and</b> <b>over so people can digest,</b> <b>you know, what are the</b> <b>implications, You know, should</b> <b>you know, the president's</b> <b>on X, Y, or Z, Should</b> <b>a member of Congress</b> <b>Boebert do X, Y, or Z?</b> <b>Is it bad?

Is it good?</b> <b>You know, whatever.</b> <b>And immediately after that,</b> <b>you know, her campaign</b> <b>manager already,</b> <b>you know, flipped the narrative.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>And maybe this is going to add</b> <b>points to her constituency.</b> <b>That's actually a great point.</b> <b>It literally is a plus</b> <b>in some cases.

Right.</b> <b>Like you're able to</b> <b>fundraise off of this,</b> <b>you can rally the base</b> <b>by saying, I'm being</b> <b>prosecuted by like the media.</b> <b>Right.

Who have turned against me.

Exactly</b> <b>And, you know, I'm</b> <b>the one true champion here.</b> <b>And even though I didn't live</b> <b>up to my own standards, like,</b> <b>you know, there should</b> <b>be, you know, sort of more</b> <b>accountability and then move on.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>You know, like</b> <b>and so I think, yeah, rising</b> <b>partisanship increasing</b> <b>affective partisanship</b> <b>where we don't like the</b> <b>other side just because</b> <b>they're the other side,</b> <b>all these things are</b> <b>contributing to this problem</b> <b>where scandals don't matter</b> <b>like they used to.</b> <b>So I, you know, it's</b> <b>certainly the case that</b> <b>these things will have</b> <b>an effect on 2024 for her</b> <b>because she definitely</b> <b>is in a very swingable seat</b> <b>and for Hunter Biden,</b> <b>because obviously it's</b> <b>such a big issue, right?</b> <b>Correct.

It has to be</b> <b>something they talk about.</b> <b>And I think the equivalency</b> <b>thing for them is going</b> <b>to be really telling.</b> <b>So we'll see how</b> <b>it plays as we go.</b> <b>This is party</b> <b>politics.

I'm Brandon.</b> <b>This is Jeronimo.</b> <b>Let's talk Texas because there's</b> <b>a bunch of stuff going on</b> <b>with Ken Paxton, which we'll</b> <b>get to in just one second.</b> <b>But I want to bring up something</b> <b>from Harris County first.</b> <b>The county judge, Lina</b> <b>Hidalgo, has sought treatment</b> <b>for clinical depression.</b> <b>She's been out of the office</b> <b>for a couple of months.</b> <b>She says that her return date</b> <b>is going to be October</b> <b>2nd, which is after the</b> <b>upcoming commissioner</b> <b>vote on the tax rate</b> <b>and the budget for the</b> <b>upcoming fiscal year.</b> <b>Alex Mealer, who was her</b> <b>opponent in the 2022 election,</b> <b>wrote an op ed in the</b> <b>Houston Chronicle saying</b> <b>effectively that she should</b> <b>return or resign,</b> <b>that the county needs</b> <b>full time leadership.</b> <b>She applauded her for</b> <b>receiving treatment, but then</b> <b>also quickly transitioned</b> <b>to say that there are</b> <b>all these problems</b> <b>in Harris County</b> <b>that have to be dealt with.</b> <b>We need a full</b> <b>time county judge.</b> <b>What do you make of this?</b> <b>The we've talked</b> <b>about kind of her,</b> <b>the judge stepping away</b> <b>to seek treatment and</b> <b>the politics around it.</b> <b>Now things are heating up</b> <b>in a different way or are they</b> <b>I mean, are we at the same point</b> <b>still and this is just kind of,</b> <b>you know, armchair</b> <b>quarterbacking or is this a</b> <b>real concern that that needs</b> <b>to be dealt with?

Well, I'm</b> <b>just to give you a</b> <b>little bit of context.</b> <b>So, you know, Hidalgo won</b> <b>her reelection bid</b> <b>with less than 2% of the vote,</b> <b>that's around 18,000 votes.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>Really close, then,</b> <b>you know, she conceded</b> <b>and that was the end of story.</b> <b>Then she decided,</b> <b>well, no, there was the</b> <b>election was not clean.</b> <b>etc.

etc.

and you got into</b> <b>these, you know, whatever it is.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>In terms of the operation,</b> <b>when we talked about</b> <b>this a couple months,</b> <b>I remember that we both</b> <b>said that, you know,</b> <b>these big institutions</b> <b>like CDs, counties,</b> <b>states, etc., etc.,</b> <b>are machineries</b> <b>that are pushed by, you know,</b> <b>Harris County employees.</b> <b>Yeah.</b> <b>Everybody knows what they're</b> <b>supposed to be doing.</b> <b>Yeah.</b> <b>The county judge is not going to</b> <b>supervise.</b> <b>Right.

Whether the</b> <b>power Yeah.</b> <b>Pump, water thing.</b> <b>Right.

Is missing a bolt.</b> <b>Trek and a tread</b> <b>on the tires.

Side.</b> <b>Doing the math on</b> <b>the budget, Right.</b> <b>Yeah.</b> <b>It's like she's she's she is</b> <b>She basically oversees all this.</b> <b>Exactly.

But overseeing.

Right.</b> <b>It's more like in terms</b> <b>of a different dynamic.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>From a public administration</b> <b>point of view.</b> <b>Also you have ride a</b> <b>commissioners court.</b> <b>Yeah so he's not that the</b> <b>county judge is the one that</b> <b>is doing these these things</b> <b>and so more than is a question</b> <b>in my mind in terms of</b> <b>real public administration</b> <b>because you know the</b> <b>counties, you know, county</b> <b>government still work.</b> <b>Yeah.</b> <b>You know, it has its</b> <b>own some big problems.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>But he still works is not</b> <b>Armageddon He's not Mad Max</b> <b>or or anything like that.</b> <b>So I think that, you</b> <b>know, this is a new way of,</b> <b>you know,</b> <b>starting the conversation,</b> <b>looking for, well,</b> <b>not conversation, for</b> <b>starting the punches</b> <b>right before the election.</b> <b>So there's no loss in terms</b> <b>of being politically relevant.</b> <b>Yeah, I see what you're saying.</b> <b>Like a blip in this is</b> <b>not going to affect the</b> <b>county's trajectory.</b> <b>Yeah.</b> <b>And so then you read this</b> <b>as being kind of political.</b> <b>I there's probably something</b> <b>to that.

Right.</b> <b>And a lot of the, you know,</b> <b>commissioners push back on this.</b> <b>Commissioner Adrian</b> <b>Garcia said that,</b> <b>you know, Mealer was a failed</b> <b>candidate, an election denier.</b> <b>That's something that's</b> <b>an ongoing litigation.</b> <b>And obviously, you hate</b> <b>to see the spill over</b> <b>in a way that it has.</b> <b>But I think it just shows</b> <b>you that the politics</b> <b>of this are are rough,</b> <b>right in Texas politics are</b> <b>is a full contact sport.</b> <b>And yep, we're seeing it here.</b> <b>And despite the fact that</b> <b>the county judge, you</b> <b>know, needs this treatment,</b> <b>she's still getting kind</b> <b>of, you know, political</b> <b>arrows shot into her.</b> <b>So I think it's it's too bad</b> <b>that it's come to this.</b> <b>But I guess it's not surprising</b> <b>that we're here right.</b> <b>Politics can be pretty</b> <b>rough and tumble.</b> <b>And it's funny to see how</b> <b>far Harris County has come.</b> <b>I mean, it was the case for</b> <b>a long time that this was</b> <b>not a partizan position.</b> <b>No one really treated</b> <b>it like that.

Yeah.</b> <b>Ed Emmett didn't even have</b> <b>an opponent, you know, in</b> <b>the time before he lost</b> <b>to Judge Hidalgo.</b> <b>So it's something that is</b> <b>ratcheted up very quickly</b> <b>and probably following</b> <b>these big national trends</b> <b>in terms of partisanship.</b> <b>So it's not surprising</b> <b>that this has come to it,</b> <b>but it's sort of sad to</b> <b>see it play out as it has.</b> <b>Speaking of Partisanship</b> <b>the rule of law and</b> <b>everything in between.</b> <b>The big news, Jeronimo, of the</b> <b>week is the finality of the</b> <b>of the impeachment</b> <b>saga of Ken Paxton.</b> <b>So people who have not</b> <b>been paying attention.</b> <b>Ken Paxton is the</b> <b>attorney general.

He was.</b> <b>And he was impeached by the</b> <b>House of Representatives</b> <b>by a healthy margin.</b> <b>The articles.</b> <b>20 of them were sent</b> <b>over to the Senate.</b> <b>The Senate had to hear them.</b> <b>There is a lot of testimony</b> <b>in the last two weeks of</b> <b>lots of political churn.</b> <b>You've got, you know, outside</b> <b>groups who are making, you</b> <b>know, kind of an attempt</b> <b>to try to sway the vote.</b> <b>Give me your sense</b> <b>of your surprise</b> <b>or not at the verdict</b> <b>here where he is found</b> <b>essentially to be not guilty.</b> <b>He is acquitted on</b> <b>all of the charges.</b> <b>What do you think?</b> <b>Well, I mean.

Were you surprised?</b> <b>I was I was surprised</b> <b>right after, right, when</b> <b>Lieutenant Governor Patrick,</b> <b>you know,</b> <b>really told what he thought</b> <b>about the process.</b> <b>Yes.

Yes.</b> <b>And then, you.

Know,</b> <b>he didn't tell.</b> <b>He preached.

Right.

Right.</b> <b>It was more than just</b> <b>like, let me just like,</b> <b>articulate this for you.</b> <b>It was pretty vocal.

Yes.

Yes.</b> <b>So to me, that was a what</b> <b>really, really struck me.</b> <b>I mean, I don't know.</b> <b>I was not obviously,</b> <b>I'm not a senator.</b> <b>I'm not the lieutenant governor.</b> <b>So, you know, the nitty gritty.</b> <b>I followed the trial</b> <b>so on and so forth.</b> <b>But obviously I didn't have</b> <b>access to any of the documents</b> <b>or anything like that.</b> <b>So I have no idea</b> <b>whether yes or no or whatever.</b> <b>What's clear is that, you know,</b> <b>the evidence presented was</b> <b>very serious allegations,</b> <b>extremely serious allegations,</b> <b>whether not or or yes or not.</b> <b>And the way that it was</b> <b>presented by the defense,</b> <b>it was like, you know,</b> <b>this is just, you know,</b> <b>partisanship these against</b> <b>something that Democrats</b> <b>and Republicans in name only</b> <b>a.k.a.

Reiners are pushing</b> <b>is a travesty, is just illegal,</b> <b>etc., etc., etc., etc..</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>All these</b> <b>whistleblowers are</b> <b>disloyal, they have</b> <b>their own agenda, etc..</b> <b>So that that you</b> <b>know, you agree </b> <b>That's basically how they sum</b> <b>it up.

Yes.

Yes.</b> <b>And then on the other hand,</b> <b>the prosecution is</b> <b>like, no, this is abuse</b> <b>of office corruption.</b> <b>These are conservatives</b> <b>that are, you know, just outing</b> <b> out the attorney general</b> <b>because he did something wrong.</b> <b>Yeah, That was basically,</b> <b>you know, in a nutshell,</b> <b>the argument, right?</b> <b>Yeah, I guess I</b> <b>wasn't surprised.</b> <b>I thought there were a couple of</b> <b>articles he was vulnerable on,</b> <b>the one about the</b> <b>whistleblowers and then</b> <b>some of the bribery stuff.</b> <b>Maybe there was a lot of smoke,</b> <b>not a lot of fire.</b> <b>There was no smoking gun.</b> <b>And I think true, although</b> <b>they had a huge document dump</b> <b>a few weeks ago, look like there</b> <b>was just a ton of stuff there.</b> <b>And sifting through it,</b> <b>you know, you could piece</b> <b>together a case, but it</b> <b>seemed like they just didn't</b> <b>get the outrage factor</b> <b>that they wanted.</b> <b>The House wanted to say,</b> <b>look at all of this evidence.</b> <b>The bulk of it implies</b> <b>he's doing something wrong,</b> <b>a bunch of different things,</b> <b>but it didn't work.</b> <b>And why exactly didn't work?</b> <b>And it was hard to</b> <b>predict precisely.</b> <b>But Partisanship is</b> <b>a heck of a drug.</b> <b>Yeah, I mean, we found this out</b> <b>when we talked about</b> <b>Lauren Boebert and we</b> <b>talked about Hunter Biden.</b> <b>Two of the Republicans</b> <b>who voted for impeachment</b> <b>aren't up to reelection</b> <b>for 20 until 2026.</b> <b>It's very likely that Kelly</b> <b>Hancock from North Texas</b> <b>probably won't run again.</b> <b>So he had, in some</b> <b>sense a free vote.</b> <b>So they're kind of ability</b> <b>to sort of maneuver</b> <b>around the politics of</b> <b>this is pretty high.</b> <b>Of the four who consistently</b> <b>voted with the attorney general,</b> <b>four of them were up</b> <b>for reelection in 2024.</b> <b>So, I mean, as political</b> <b>scientists we would say,</b> <b>that that's not causation,</b> <b>but certainly there's</b> <b>a strong relationship here.</b> <b>So let me ask you a</b> <b>question.

Yes, I'd.</b> <b>So given that, yes, I agree.</b> <b>There was not you know,</b> <b>the body was not there,</b> <b>the gun was not there.</b> <b>The casings were not there.</b> <b>All right.</b> <b>So does Lieutenant</b> <b>Governor Patrick</b> <b>has a point or not?</b> <b>Yes, I think he does.</b> <b>I think that the house</b> <b>didn't make as clean a</b> <b>case as they could have.</b> <b>And obviously, there's a lot</b> <b>of debate about whether or not</b> <b>they should have waited.

Right.</b> <b>Other impeachments,</b> <b>as Dan Patrick said,</b> <b>have taken a longer.</b> <b>That's all true.</b> <b>So it's possible</b> <b>that they could have waited.</b> <b>Look, I mean, Ken</b> <b>Paxton has got criminal charges</b> <b>against him, right, on</b> <b>the securities fraud case.</b> <b>He's got an FBI investigation</b> <b>ongoing on bribery.</b> <b>The feds have got</b> <b>resources to dig.</b> <b>They ask questions.</b> <b>There are all kinds</b> <b>of opportunities for</b> <b>them to find more data,</b> <b>find more evidence.

And the</b> <b>House didn't really do that.</b> <b>Is there more out</b> <b>there?

I don't know.</b> <b>But if there is</b> <b>and the house didn't find it,</b> <b>then it will make it look</b> <b>like they rushed it and didn't</b> <b>get the person they need.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>And that's I don't I</b> <b>don't like prosecutor and</b> <b>prosecutorial misconduct, but</b> <b>certainly a violation</b> <b>of your kind of ability</b> <b>as a strong prosecutor to get</b> <b>your your person convicted.</b> <b>But I actually think more</b> <b>than that, that the die was</b> <b>cast when the rules were set.</b> <b>And the reason I think that is</b> <b>because they had a high</b> <b>standard to meet the</b> <b>criminal standard was</b> <b>beyond reasonable doubt.</b> <b>And anybody can</b> <b>hide behind that.</b> <b>Right, Because for any</b> <b>person they can say, well,</b> <b>it didn't prove the case.</b> <b>Right.

100%.</b> <b>And so that's a high</b> <b>standard to meet.</b> <b>That's not the standard we're</b> <b>used to seeing in impeachments.</b> <b>Right.</b> <b>For instance, in South Dakota,</b> <b>when they impeach their</b> <b>attorney general for killing</b> <b>someone with his car.</b> <b>Now, that person pled</b> <b>guilty to misdemeanors,</b> <b>but they can they convicted</b> <b>and they removed him</b> <b>from office at a very</b> <b>lower standard than that.</b> <b>And so the, you know,</b> <b>evidence was higher</b> <b>and standard was lower.</b> <b>So he left, whereas</b> <b>Ken Paxton didn't.</b> <b>The trial was short.</b> <b>You had two weeks of a trial.</b> <b>That's pretty short,</b> <b>right?

Yeah.

You had,</b> <b>you know,</b> <b>the number of senators</b> <b>not change, right?</b> <b>Angela Paxton, take her out.</b> <b>She can't be part of it, right?</b> <b>Obviously, for good reasons.</b> <b>I'm glad they did that.</b> <b>That's a fair thing.</b> <b>Yeah.</b> <b>Yeah, but they didn't change</b> <b>the math in terms of</b> <b>then what the number</b> <b>was required to convict.</b> <b>Right.

Right.</b> <b>And so as a result that they</b> <b>still had to have more people</b> <b>write, more senators to</b> <b>convict, and that probably</b> <b>wasn't going to happen.</b> <b>So all these things together</b> <b>basically set up the rules</b> <b>so that they weren't</b> <b>able to get a conviction</b> <b>or were going to be really hard</b> <b>to get the correct.</b> <b>And I think although you</b> <b>don't blame Dan Patrick for</b> <b>that, since the whole Senate</b> <b>voted on these rules,</b> <b>some of this was baked in.</b> <b>Right?

No, I understand.</b> <b>And and and perhaps,</b> <b>you know, the house rush or not,</b> <b>you know, that's a question for.</b> <b>Yes.

The history books.</b> <b>And eventually</b> <b>we'll know a little bit better.</b> <b>Also, what</b> <b>it's very interesting</b> <b>is that now the season</b> <b>that between the House</b> <b>and the Senate,</b> <b>if it was big, now is huge.</b> <b>So buckle up.

Yeah, right.</b> <b>It's like pouring</b> <b>gas on a raging fire.</b> <b>Right?</b> <b>There's already</b> <b>personal differences</b> <b>between the House and</b> <b>Senate, Thielen and Patrick.</b> <b>And now they've got to go</b> <b>into a special session where</b> <b>the parties already divided.</b> <b>Yikes.</b> <b>Yeah.</b> <b>It's going to be a</b> <b>recipe for gridlock.</b> <b>I think they're going to</b> <b>get something done.

Right.</b> <b>I do think that every Republican</b> <b>recognizes this is a big issue.</b> <b>Dan Patrick wants</b> <b>to see it happen.</b> <b>Thielen put together a special</b> <b>committee for the governor</b> <b>who's going to have to referee.</b> <b>All this has been</b> <b>pushing for it.</b> <b>So I think they're</b> <b>going to get something.</b> <b>Exactly what I don't know.</b> <b>Okay.</b> <b>And last question</b> <b>very quickly.

Yes.</b> <b>What happens?

Right.</b> <b>when Is there a GOP</b> <b>in-house knife fight?</b> <b>I hope so.</b> <b>I think we should do like</b> <b>a yeah, some kind of a</b> <b>cage match or something.</b> <b>I think that's the only</b> <b>way to solve this.

Right.</b> <b>The GOP has been warring</b> <b>since the early 2000s.</b> <b>This is not going to</b> <b>be something new, but</b> <b>I think you're going</b> <b>to see something from this.</b> <b>It's just exactly what and how.</b> <b>We don't know.</b> <b>The speaker is not</b> <b>going to resign.</b> <b>Lieutenant Governor</b> <b>Patrick is too powerful</b> <b>in the Republican Party.</b> <b>So it's just going to</b> <b>be more of the same.</b> <b>Yeah.

So buckle</b> <b>up and we'll see.</b> <b>And we're going to talk</b> <b>about this and many</b> <b>other issues next week.</b> <b>I'm Jeronimo Cortina.</b> <b>And I'm Brandon Rottinghaus.</b> <b>The conversation</b> <b>keeps up next week.</b>