NARRATOR: AMERICA IS THE RICHEST NATION IN THE WORLD AND IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

WITH JUST OVER 4% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION, THE UNITED STATES' ECONOMY PRODUCES NEARLY 25% OF THE WORLD'S WEALTH.

EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN STATE, EVEN THE SMALLER AND LESS-AFFLUENT, HAVE LARGER ECONOMIES THAN DOZENS OF INDEPENDENT NATIONS ACROSS THE GLOBE, YET A SIZABLE PORTION OF AMERICANS, INCLUDING ABOUT 1 IN 5 AMERICAN CHILDREN, LIVE IN OFFICIALLY DEFINED POVERTY.

WHERE IS THE NATURE OF POVERTY IN AMERICA?

WHAT ARE ITS SOURCES AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT?

WOMAN: THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY... ANNOUNCER: PHILADELPHIA'S HISTORIC DISTRICT IS BEST KNOWN AS AMERICA'S BIRTHPLACE.

IT MIGHT SURPRISE YOU, THEN, THAT THE OLDEST PART OF PHILADELPHIA HAS THE LATEST AND GREATEST IN STREETS, PARKS, RESTAURANTS, AND SHOPS.

YOU'LL FIND VIBRANT ENERGY ALL AROUND.

LEARN MORE AT visitphilly.com.

WOMAN: THE MILL SPRING FOUNDATION, THE DORAN FAMILY FOUNDATION, AMETEK, AND BY... FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS IN ENGLISH-SPEAKING COURTROOMS AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE HAVE SWORN AN OATH TO TELL NOT ONLY THE TRUTH, BUT RATHER THE WHOLE TRUTH.

THE OATH REFLECTS THE WISDOM THAT FAILING TO TELL ALL OF A STORY CAN BE AS EFFECTIVE AS LYING IF YOUR GOAL IS TO MAKE THE FACTS SUPPORT YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

IN THE COURTROOM, THE SEARCH FOR TRUTH ALSO RELIES ON ADVOCATES ADVANCING FIRM CONTRADICTORY ARGUMENTS AND DOING SO WITH DECORUM.

ALL OF THESE APPLY TO THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, WHAT JOHN STUART MILL CALLED "THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS."

THIS SERIES IS A PLACE IN WHICH THE COMPETING VOICES ON THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES OF OUR TIME ARE CHALLENGED AND SET INTO MEANINGFUL CONTEXT SO THAT VIEWERS LIKE YOU CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES THE WHOLE TRUTH.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE POOR IN THE SHADOW OF PLENTY?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE POOR IN 21st-CENTURY AMERICA?

ARE AMERICA'S POOR IN THOSE STRAITS BECAUSE, FOR WHATEVER REASONS, THEY HAVE FAILED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR SOCIETY TO RAISE THEMSELVES UP, OR ARE THEY POOR LARGELY BECAUSE THE REST OF US ARE NOT BECAUSE THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED IN VARIOUS WAYS TO KEEP THE POOR DOWN?

WHATEVER THE CAUSES OF CONTINUING POVERTY IN AMERICA, ARE THERE IDEAS ON WHICH THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT CAN COME TOGETHER TO TRY TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION?

THESE ARE SOME OF THE QUESTIONS FOR TODAY'S EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH."

HERE TO DISCUSS THESE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS ARE OUR GUESTS: MICHAEL STRAIN, DIRECTOR OF ECONOMIC POLICY STUDIES AND RESIDENT SCHOLAR AT THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE; MICHELLE BERNARD, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE BERNARD CENTER FOR WOMEN, POLITICS, AND PUBLIC POLICY; ELIZABETH KNEEBONE, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION FELLOW, METROPOLITAN POLICY PROGRAM; AND LIZ HERSH, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF SUPPORTIVE HOUSING, CITY OF PHILADELPHIA.

WHO IS POOR IN AMERICA?

UH, WHITE, BLACK, HISPANIC, OTHER NEWER IMMIGRANTS, NATURAL-BORN CITIZENS, RURAL FOLKS, UH, THE ANSWER IS PROBABLY ALL OF THESE THINGS, UH, BUT IN RELATIVE PROPORTIONS.

WHAT'S YOUR CONCEPT OF-- OF A--WHAT IS "POOR," MICHAEL?

WELL, I--I THINK, UH-- DAVID: WHO IS POOR?

THERE--THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS TO CONCEIVE OF POVERTY.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S HELPFUL TO THINK POVERTY IN TERMS OF INCOME, IN TERMS OF THE FLOW OF RESOURCES THAT A HOUSEHOLD CAN--CAN SPEND; UH, POVERTY IN TERMS OF CONSUMPTION, IN TERMS--IN TERMS OF THE-- THE BUNDLE OF GOODS AND SERVICES THAT HOUSEHOLDS ARE ACTUALLY CONSUMING; UH, AND THEN POVERTY IN TERMS OF LIFE CIRCUMSTANCE.

UM, SO IN THE 1990s, FOR EXAMPLE, WE DID A LOT OF--PUBLIC POLICY FOCUSED A LOT ON LOW-INCOME WOMEN WITH DEPENDENT CHILDREN.

PUBLIC POLICY HAS FOCUSED LESS ON MEN WITHOUT DEPENDENT CHILDREN, AND--AND A LOT OF THOSE MEN ARE NOT WORKING AND A LOT OF THOSE MEN ARE IN POVERTY.

AND SO--AND SO THINKING ALONG, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE LINES, BOTH IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE-- WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY MEAN BY "POOR"?

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT INCOME?

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT CONSUMPTION?

UH, AND THEN THE BASIC DEMOGRAPHIC GROUPS IS, I THINK, HELPFUL TO GET A HOLISTIC PICTURE.

DAVID: SO, WHO ARE THEY?

WELL-- IN OTHER WORDS, WHO--WHO ARE THE PREDOMINANTLY POOR?

IN OTHER WORDS, WHERE--WHERE'S THIS PROBLEM LOCATED?

THE--THE--I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS EVERYWHERE.

AND--AND, YOU KNOW, WE THINK WE--WE-- I THINK WE STILL TEND TO THINK OF THIS AS AN URBAN ISSUE, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, POVERTY HAS MOVED, CERTAINLY, INTO THE EXURBS, CERTAINLY INTO RURAL AREAS, EVEN--EVEN INTO SUBURBS.

UH, WE TEND TO THINK OF POVERTY AS A MINORITY ISSUE, BUT--BUT, UH, THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF WHITE AMERICANS WHO ARE LIVING IN POVERTY.

UM, AND LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE USED TO THINK OF POVERTY AS PREDOMINANTLY A SINGLE MOTHER ISSUE, AND, IN FACT, THERE ARE A LOT OF MEN WHO-- WHO ARE LIVING IN POVERTY, AND PUBLIC POLICY SHOULD PAY SOME ATTENTION TO THEM AS WELL.

SO IT'S--IT'S--I THINK IT'S HELPFUL TO THINK OF IT MORE HOLISTICALLY.

DAVID: MICHELLE, HOW DO YOU LOOK AT IT?

MICHELLE: I LOOK AT POVERTY AS DEPRIVATION.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ECONOMISTS WHO HAVE SAID THAT SORT OF THE POVERTY INDEX AND THE WAY WE LOOK AT POVERTY MIGHT BE SORT OF A-- A BROKEN YARDSTICK.

YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, "ARE YOU REALLY POOR IF YOU HAVE CABLE TELEVISION?"

OR "ARE YOU REALLY POOR IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A TELEPHONE OR TO A CELL PHONE?"

UM, I LOOK AT POVERTY AS DEPRIVATION OF EQUAL ACCESS TO AN EXCELLENT EDUCATION, UM, LOOK AT POVERTY IN TERMS OF CIRCUMSTANCE.

YOU SEE A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF SINGLE--SINGLE MOTHERS, UM, WHO ARE POOR AND WHOSE CHILDREN ARE POOR.

UM, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT POVERTY IN TERMS OF ACCESS TO FOOD AND HEALTHY FOOD.

YOU KNOW, AT ONE POINT, UM, IN AMERICA, WE LOOKED AT POVERTY IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE UNDERNOURISHED, AND NOW WE SEE THE CHILDREN OF THE POOR WHO ARE NOT SO MUCH UNDERNOURISHED BUT HAVE HIGH OBESITY RATES, BUT, AGAIN, BECAUSE OF, UM, YOU KNOW, UNEQUAL ACCESS TO, FOR EXAMPLE, A GROCERY STORE, PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN, UH, WHO LIVE IN FOOD DESERTS.

UM, SO IT--YOU KNOW, THE WAY WE LOOK AT IT HAS, YOU KNOW, HAS EXCEEDINGLY CHANGED.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FIND INTERESTING WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHO THE POOR ARE OR WHAT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF POVERTY ARE, UM, IS WHO WE DON'T LOOK AT.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT, UM, YOU KNOW, VARIOUS STUDIES, YOU WILL ALWAYS SEE THE DEMOGRAPHICS SET FORTH IN TERMS OF WHITE, AFRICAN AMERICAN, AND LATINO, YOU KNOW, WHICH, OF COURSE, CAN BE ANY RACE.

NEVER SEE ANY DEMOGRAPHICS ON ASIAN COMMUNITIES AND THE EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTENCE OF POVERTY IN THOSE COMMUNITIES, UM-- DAVID: BUT THEY ARE MEASURED?

IN OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE DATA ON THIS, DON'T WE?

SURE.

YEAH.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

BUT--BUT I THINK--I THINK I THINK THE POINT IS ACCURATE, YOU KNOW.

MICHELLE: IT DOESN'T COME TO MIND.

YEAH.

YEAH, IT DOESN'T COME TO MIND.

AND I THINK-- DOESN'T COME TO MIND.

THINK--AGAIN, THINKING OF IT AS MORE OF A HOLISTIC SOCIAL PROBLEM THAT PERMEATES ALL GROUPS IS MORE CONSTRUCTIVE, I THINK.

DAVID: ELIZABETH, WHO'S POOR?

ELIZABETH: WELL, I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT THIS IS TAKING A HOLISTIC LOOK, AND IT'S OFTEN, UM, A BROADER ISSUE THAN WE TEND TO-- OR POPULAR PERCEPTION WOULD SUGGEST.

I THINK THAT WAS A VERY SALIENT POINT ABOUT, WE TEND TO THINK ABOUT POVERTY-- SOMEONE MENTIONS THE WORD "POVERTY," OR "WHO IS POOR?"

WE THINK OF INNER-CITY NEIGHBORHOODS, THINK OF HOMELESSNESS, YOU THINK OF MINORITIES AND PEOPLE OF COLOR, UM, SINGLE MOTHERS.

BUT THAT DOES LEAVE OUT THE FACT THAT WE HAVE AN AGING POPULATION, UH, THAT IS FACING POVERTY.

WE HAVE SINGLE MEN WHO'VE REALLY BEEN HIT HARD, ESPECIALLY BY THE MOST RECENT RECESSION, WHOSE LABOR MARKET INDICATORS ARE NOT GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

UH, AND IN TERMS OF THE GEOGRAPHY OF POVERTY, IT--IT HAS SPREAD WELL BEYOND URBAN AREAS OR TRADITIONAL CENTERS OF POVERTY IN RURAL AMERICA.

UH, IN FACT-- DAVID: I BELIEVE YOU STUDIED SUBURBAN POVERTY.

THAT'S RIGHT.

NOW, WHAT--WHAT EXACTLY IS SUBURBAN POVERTY?

YOU KNOW, IT'S, UH, IT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE-- WE'RE ALL BRUSHING UP AGAINST.

BUT HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE IT?

WELL, YOU CAN USE THE SAME INCOME MEASURE, RIGHT, THAT SAY THE OFFICIAL POVERTY LINE, WHICH WAS ROUGHLY 24,000, UH, FOR A FAMILY OF 4 IN 2014.

BY THAT MEASURE, THE SUBURBS IN THE UNITED STATES IN THE HUNDRED LARGEST METRO AREAS BECAME HOME TO NOT ONLY THE FASTEST-GROWING POOR POPULATION IN THE COUNTRY BUT THE LARGEST FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE 2000.

THAT MEANS THERE ARE NOW 3 MILLION MORE POOR IN SUBURBS THAN IN BIG CITIES.

THERE ARE MORE POOR IN SUBURBS THAN IN RURAL AMERICA.

AND THAT RAISES A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR POLICY AND FOR PRACTICE AS WE THINK ABOUT ANTI-POVERTY APPROACHES, BECAUSE OFTEN THE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE SEEN THE MOST RAPID SPREAD OF POVERTY IN RECENT YEARS ARE ONES THAT ARE LEAST EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH IT, THAT HAVE, UH, LESS INFRASTRUCTURE-- FROM PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION TO SAFETY NET SERVICES.

RIGHT.

THEY'RE DIFFUSE.

THAT'S RIGHT.

IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S NO CENTRAL FOCUS OR NO--NO CENTRAL DISTRIBUTION POINT FOR-- THAT'S RIGHT.

AND THAT CAN MAKE IT A VERY HIDDEN PROBLEM, SO IT'S HARD TO BRING THE RESOURCES THAT ARE NEEDED IN THESE COMMUNITIES.

LIZ: UH, WE THINK OF POVERTY AS SIMPLY NOT HAVING ENOUGH MONEY TO, UH, TO PROVIDE FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY BASIC NECESSITIES-- FOOD, CLOTHING, SHELTER.

UM, IT--I THINK POVERTY IS A RATIO.

IT'S DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY WHAT YOU NEED TO BUY OR TO PROVIDE FOR YOURSELF?

SO, SUBURBAN POVERTY, FOR EXAMPLE-- IF THE COST OF LIVING IS HIGHER, AND YOUR WAGE--YOU MAY BE WORKING AND WORKING POOR, AND YOUR WAGES ARE LOWER.

YOU HAVE AN INADEQUATE INCOME.

IN REAL TERMS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN OUR HOMELESS POPULATION, WE HAVE--THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HAVE ZERO INCOME.

THAT IS TRUE ABJECT POVERTY AND THE COMPLETE AND TOTAL INABILITY TO FEED ONESELF OR HOUSE ONESELF WITH THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO GENERATE.

DAVID: SO ONE THING I'M SORT OF GATHERING FROM EVERYBODY IS THAT THIS IS A MORE DIFFUSE PROBLEM THAN IT WAS.

WE USED TO HAVE A VERY CLEAR PICTURE OF WHAT POVERTY WAS.

AND SOMEHOW--WHAT, THE GREAT RECESSION?

UH, VARIOUS CHANGES THAT HAVE, UH, THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN THE LAST 5 TO 10 YEARS, PERHAPS, HAS RESULTED IN A SORT OF, UH, SORT OF A NEW CIRCUMSTANCE, A NEW FACE FOR POVERTY.

THAT BRINGS UP THE QUESTION...

UH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WHO.

NOW LET'S TURN TO THE QUESTION OF WHAT EXACTLY POVERTY IS.

UH, WE DO NOT HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY THE KIND OF ABSOLUTE POVERTY THAT ONE SEES IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

UH, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ABSOLUTE POVERTY, BUT RATHER RELATIVE POVERTY IN THIS COUNTRY.

EVEN THE FOUNDATIONAL THINKER OF CAPITALISM, ADAM SMITH, RECOGNIZED THAT POVERTY IS NOT NECESSARILY AND SOLELY ABOUT STARVATION.

UH, BUT CAN MEAN A LACK OF ACCESS TO THE BASIC TOOLS THAT ONE NEEDS TO PARTICIPATE FULLY IN AN ECONOMY AND A SOCIETY.

SO I THINK THAT WHAT THE AUDIENCE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS, UH--WE USE THE WORD "POVERTY."

THAT--WE ARE DESCRIBING A PROBLEM.

AND A PROBLEM COMMITS US, IT SEEMS TO ME, ONCE WE'VE DEFINED ONE, TO...

SOME SORT OF SOLUTION OR DISCUSSING REMEDIES.

WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM?

MICHAEL: WELL, I THINK IT'S--IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT SPEAKS, FIRST OF ALL, TO THE FACT THAT POVERTY IS A DIFFICULT CONCEPT TO-- TO GET YOUR HEAD AROUND AND A DIFFICULT CONCEPT TO PIN DOWN.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS OF MEASURING POVERTY.

ONE IS BASED ON INCOME.

UH, AND IT'S BASED ON A CALCULATION, YOU KNOW, ROUGHLY "WHAT DO PEOPLE NEED "YOU KNOW, TO HAVE A BASELINE STANDARD OF LIVING AND HOW DO WE ADJUST THAT AS PRICES CHANGE OVER TIME?"

BUT ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT IS, "WHAT IS THE COST "OF A BASIC BUNDLE OF GOODS THAT'S ENJOYED BY 1/3 OF THE POPULATION AND HOW DO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, FIT IN THAT RELATIVE MEASURE?"

AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE TEND TO THINK OF WHEN WE THINK OF--OF, YOU KNOW, DEEPLY IMPOVERISHED PLACES LIKE SUB-- SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA OR PLACES LIKE THAT.

UM...BUT I THINK, UH... YOU KNOW, IT IS IMPORTANT TO-- TO POINT OUT THAT EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE THOSE KINDS OF PROBLEMS, YOU KNOW, THE OFFICIAL POVERTY LINE FOR-- FOR A FAMILY OF 4 IS ABOUT $24,000, AS YOU SAID.

AND FOR A FAMILY WITH NO CHILDREN, FOR A SINGLE PERSON, IT'S ABOUT $12,000, ROUGHLY.

SO THAT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY.

AND THERE ARE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WHO--WHO ARE LIVING DAY TO DAY WITHOUT A LOT OF MONEY.

I NOTICE THAT OUR POVERTY RATE HAS BEEN RATHER CONSISTENT, SINCE THE DECLARATION OF WAR ON POVERTY 50 YEARS AGO.

IF THEIR BODIES ARE STUNTED FROM HUNGER, IF THEIR SICKNESS GOES UNTENDED, IF THEIR LIFE IS SPENT IN HOPELESS POVERTY, JUST DRAWING A WELFARE CHECK, SO WE WANT TO OPEN THE GATES TO OPPORTUNITY.

BUT WE'RE ALSO GOING TO GIVE ALL OUR PEOPLE, BLACK AND WHITE, THE HELP THAT THEY NEED.

[APPLAUSE] AND THIS ADMINISTRATION TODAY, HERE AND NOW, DECLARED UNCONDITIONAL WAR ON POVERTY IN AMERICA.

[APPLAUSE] AND I URGE THIS CONGRESS AND ALL AMERICANS TO JOIN WITH ME IN THAT EFFORT.

DAVID: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A RELATIVE CONCEPT AND A STATE OF MIND.

NOW, TO WHAT EXTENT IS POVERTY A STATE OF MIND?

UM, IN MY EXPERIENCE, HAVING WORKED IN THIS ABOUT 35 YEARS, I HAVE NOT ENCOUNTERED VOLUNTARY POVERTY-- MICHELLE: YEAH.

WITH THE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF THE BUDDHIST MONKS IN, UH, NORTHERN INDIA.

UH, I THINK POVERTY, BY AND LARGE, IS INVOLUNTARY.

I MEAN, LET'S BE REAL.

POVERTY SUCKS.

IT'S--IT'S JUST A REALLY HARD WAY TO LIVE.

AND SO I THINK THAT THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING THIS LIFESTYLE BECAUSE OF ALL OF ITS WONDERFUL BENEFITS IS SIMPLY A MYTH-- DAVID: RIGHT.

AND I THINK THE EXTREME, UM, GEOGRAPHIC SEGREGATION THAT WE HAVE, AN ECONOMIC SEGREGATION, MEANS THAT MANY OF US WHO HAVE DON'T ENCOUNTER PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE.

DAVID: RIGHT.

ARE THERE INSTITUTIONAL MECHANISMS THAT ARE KEEPING PEOPLE CHAINED IN POVERTY?

IS THIS A MATTER OF INEQUALITY OF INCOME?

UH, IS THIS RACISM?

UH, TO WHAT EXTENT IS IT POLARIZATION IN OUR POLITICS, UH, AND THE INABILITY TO MOBILIZE AN EFFECTIVE PUBLIC RESPONSE TO A PROBLEM LIKE THIS?

UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NATURE-NURTURE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COLLECTIVE AND INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.

PERSONAL--PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, UM, GOES HAND IN HAND WITH ACCESS TO THE TOOLS THAT YOU NEED TO SORT OF ESCAPE POVERTY.

SO, UM, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO DO IS JUST LOOK AT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AS A GIVEN.

IF YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO SITS AT HOME AND DOESN'T TRY, UM, THEN, THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

YOU KNOW, THAT IS NOT SOCIETY'S PROBLEM.

THAT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S PROBLEM.

THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM.

BUT I THINK AS A NATION, WE REALLY HAVE A VERY SIGNIFICANT MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO LOOK AT BARRIERS.

AND ONE OF THE EXAMPLES I WANT TO GIVE IS THAT I HAVE SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME IN LOW-INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS SPEAKING TO PARENTS AND ASKING THEM... WHAT ARE YOUR DREAMS FOR THE FUTURE OF YOUR CHILDREN?

AND I HAVE NEVER MET A PARENT, UM, WHO-- WHO LIVES IN ABJECT POVERTY WHO HAS SAID, "I WANT MY CHILD TO LIVE JUST LIKE I DO."

"I WANT THIS TO CONTINUE."

EVERY PERSON I HAVE EVER MET HAS ALWAYS SAID, "I WANT MY CHILD TO LIVE A BETTER LIFE THAN I DO."

AND THE KEY TO DOING THAT IS THE ABILITY TO OBTAIN AN EDUCATION.

THIS IS A--A PROBLEM BECAUSE NONE OF US FEEL RIGHT ABOUT LIVING IN A LAND OF PLENTY WITH POOR AMONG US, PEOPLE WHO ARE--WHO ARE EXCLUDED IN SOME WAY, WHO LACK ACCESS AND SO FORTH.

WHAT, UH, UH... WHAT IS--I THINK THAT EVERYBODY WOULD SAY THAT THERE WOULD BE A MIX, BUT WHERE IS YOUR EMPHASIS RIGHT NOW?

THIS IS--UH, TODAY IN CONTEMPORARY AMERICA, WHERE IS YOUR EMPHASIS?

MICHAEL.

WELL, I THINK-- I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO DISMISS PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

I THINK PEOPLE DO HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR LIVES.

ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE HAVE CHILDREN, THEY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO THEIR CHILDREN.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO BE BETTER AT COMMUNICATING THAT MESSAGE AND AFFECTING CULTURAL EXPECTATIONS.

UM, YOU KNOW, MICHELLE SAID SHE GOES INTO THE POOR NEIGHBORHOODS, AND SHE TALKS TO PEOPLE, THE PARENTS, AND SAYS, "HEY, DO YOU WANT YOUR KIDS TO BE POOR?"

NOBODY SAYS YES.

THE DAD'S NOT AROUND IN A LOT OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS, I IMAGINE, AS I SAID.

AND--AND HE SHOULD BE AROUND.

HE SHOULD BE HELPING-- HELPING, UH, TO RAISE HIS CHILDREN AND PROVIDE AN INCOME FOR THEM.

UM...PUBLIC POLICY NEEDS TO HELP PEOPLE TO DO THAT, AND A GREAT EXAMPLE IS EARNING SUBSIDIES.

IF YOU HAVE A JOB AND YOU MAKE, YOU KNOW, 12 GRAND A YEAR, 14 GRAND A YEAR, THE GOVERNMENT WILL SUPPLEMENT YOUR EARNINGS TO--TO HELP YOU MAKE ENDS MEET.

AND THE--AND THE LARGER YOUR HOUSEHOLD, THE--THE MORE HELP YOU GET.

WE HAVE A PROGRAM ON THE BOOKS THAT DOES THAT-- THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT.

IT LIFTS MILLIONS OF PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY EVERY YEAR, INCLUDING MILLIONS OF CHILDREN EVERY YEAR.

WE NEED TO DO MORE THINGS LIKE THAT.

I DO--I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I--I REJE-- I BELIEVE THAT CHILDREN NEED MOM AND DAD.

BUT I REJECT THE NOTION THAT HAVING A MAN IN THE HOUSEHOLD IS GOING TO SOMEHOW ALLEVIATE POVERTY.

THERE ARE COUNTRIES-- FOR EXAMPLE, FINLAND-- UM, WHERE LARGE NUMBERS OF WOMEN ARE SINGLE BY CHOICE.

AND, UM, IF YOU ARE POOR, HAVING A POOR HUSBAND IN THE HOUSEHOLD ISN'T NECESSARILY GOING TO ALLEVIATE YOUR POVERTY.

SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THE ABSENCE OF A FATHER OR A MAN IN THE HOUSEHOLD, UM, I DON'T BELIEVE, IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE POVERTY RATE THAT WE SEE.

TRANSPARTISANSHIP, TO ME, IS GETTING OVER THE NOTION OF CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL OR DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN AND REALLY ELEVATING THE DISCUSSION TO WHAT IS IN THE PUBLIC GOOD AND GETTING OVER THESE NOTIONS OF, YOU KNOW, "I'M A DEMOCRAT, SO EVERYTHING DEMOCRATS DO IS, YOU KNOW, IS THE RIGHT THING" AND--AND VICE VERSA.

IF WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON A POLICY SOLUTION, IT IS NOT JUST THE NOTION OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AS AN INDIVIDUAL BUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AS A POLICY MAKER, I, FOR ONE, BELIEVE THAT IF WE HAVE POLICY MAKERS WHO ARE TRUTHFUL TO THE ELECTORATE THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT, UM, AND ARE GOING TO BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT A 21st-CENTURY WORKFORCE LOOKS LIKE AND WHO WILL LOOK, FOR EXAMPLE, AT PEOPLE IN DETROIT AND SAY, "MANUFACTURING JOBS ARE NOT COMING BACK," RATHER THAN RUNNING ON A PLATFORM THAT SAYS, "I'M GOING TO BRING MANUFACTURING BACK TO THE UNITED STATES" WHEN WE ALL KNOW THAT IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE LIVE IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ECONOMY, AND WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PREPARE THE AMERICAN WORKFORCE FOR A 21st-CENTURY ECONOMY.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO BACK TO AN AGRARIAN CULTURE, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, THAT WE SAW, YOU KNOW, THAT LIKE-- DOES THAT MEAN REVALUING WORK IN SOME WAY?

IN OTHER WORDS, UH...

IF WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO MANUFACTURING, UH, DO WE REVALUE OTHER FORMS OF WORK IN A WAY THAT, UH, ELEVATES THEM TO, SAY, SORT OF MIDDLE STATUS?

WELL--NO, I DON'T KNOW-- SO MUCH THAT IT'S REVALUING WORK, BECAUSE I THINK THAT SORT OF JUST KEEPS YOU, YOU KNOW, RUNNING IN CIRCLES.

I THINK IT IS LOOKING AT WHERE JOBS ARE TODAY-- YEAH.

AND WHAT JOBS ARE TODAY AND BEING PREPARED FOR THEM RATHER THAN, YOU KNOW, SITTING BACK AND WAITING FOR THE GOOD OLD DAYS TO COME BACK, BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST NOT GOING TO.

DAVID: EDUCATION.

ELIZABETH.

ELIZABETH: I MEAN, I THINK-- I THINK THE IDEA THAT WE, UM, FIGURE OUT WHAT'S WORKING AND Y TO BUILD FROM THAT IS--IS CRITICAL.

AND YOU MENTION, YOU KNOW, THAT--THAT POVERTY IS-- WE HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH PROGRESS SINCE--SINCE THE WAR ON POVERTY IN THE LAST 50 YEARS BY THE MEASURE OF THE OFFICIAL POVERTY LINE.

IF WE LOOK AT THE SUPPLEMENTAL POVERTY MEASURE, WHICH ACTUALLY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS LIKE THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT, YOU GET A DIFFERENT PICTURE.

WE ARE DOING THINGS THAT WORK.

AND WITH THAT SORT OF INFORMATION, WE CAN--WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT'S BEING MOST EFFECTIVE.

THINGS LIKE--LIKE THE EITC, LIKE FOOD STAMPS, OR THE SNAP PROGRAM LIFT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY, UH, EVERY YEAR.

THE OTHER PIECE, I THINK, THAT'S IMPORTANT AS WE DISCUSS THIS I THINK IS THE IDEA THAT WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT WHAT SOLUTIONS WORK IN INDIVIDUAL TERMS OR IN SILOS.

AND THAT'S--THAT'S JUST NOT GOING TO BE AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO DEAL WITH THE SCALE OF THE PROBLEM WE HAVE, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE GEOGRAPHY THAT'S CHANGED, RIGHT, THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOT MORE PLACES THAT ARE DEALING WITH THESE CHALLENGES THAT HAVEN'T SPENT THE LAST 50 YEARS BUILDING UP THE SAME KINDS OF SUPPORTS THAT INNER CITIES OFTEN HAVE DONE.

SO WE HAVE TO THINK MORE HOLISTICALLY, AGAIN, ABOUT WHAT IS IT THAT-- POVERTY IS A THORNY, COMPLICATED PROBLEM.

SO IT'S EDUCATION, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT EDUCATION IN TERMS OF PIPELINES FOR THE JOBS THAT ARE ACTUALLY AVAILABLE.

WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, AS WE DEVELOP REGIONS IN CITIES WHERE ARE THOSE JOBS LOCATED AND HOW ARE WE MAKING CONNECTIONS FOR THOSE WORKERS TO THOSE JOBS.

YOU GOT SKILLS, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE THE TRANSPORTATION PLANNING THAT GOES INTO THAT.

YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, NOBODY TALKS ABOUT ZONING OR LAND USE AS AN ANTI-POVERTY POLICY, BUT MAYBE THEY SHOULD.

DAVID: ALL RIGHT.

LIZ.

WELL, TO--TO PICK UP ON THE TRANSPARTISANSHIP, I THINK OF BIPARTISANSHIP AS BEING THE NEW RADICAL... [ALL CHUCKLING] THAT WE ARE VERY INVESTED OF THE POLITICS OF DIVISIVENESS, AND IT'S NOT PRODUCTIVE.

UM, IN PENNSYLVANIA, JUST THIS PAST YEAR, WE ESTABLISHED A STATE HOUSING TRUST FUND FOR $25 MILLION A YEAR TO ALLEVIATE HOMELESSNESS AND HELP GIVE PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE AND PERHAPS BECOME HOMEOWNERS, AND IT PASSED IN OUR VERY DIVIDED GENERAL ASSEMBLY WITH REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES IN BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE AND A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR BY A VOTE OF 242 TO 1, AND IT HAD VERY STRONG-- REPUBLICAN SPONSOR THROUGHOUT.

AND THE REASON THAT THAT PASSED WAS IT WAS BASED ON A SET OF VALUES THAT NO CHILD SHOULD BE HOMELESS, AND EVERYBODY NEEDED ACCESS TO A--A HOME THAT THEY COULD AFFORD.

BUT--SO THERE WERE UNIFYING VALUES.

BUT THE OTHER THING IS THAT IT WAS BASED ON THE ASSURANCE AND THE EXPERIENCE THAT THE MONEY WOULD BE WELL-SPENT, THAT THE--THAT THE PROMISES WOULD BE DELIVERED, THAT THERE WOULD BE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY, THAT IT WOULD BE USED TO HELP THOSE WHO NEEDED IT MOST THROUGH A COMPETITIVE AND ACCOUNTABLE PROCESS.

AND I THINK WHEN WE GET CAUGHT IN IDEOLOGY, WE SOMETIMES-- DAVID: YEAH.

LOSE TRACK OF THE PRACTICALITIES OF THE ROLE OF GOOD GOVERNMENT IMPLEMENTING GOOD PROGRAMS.

AND I--I GO BACK, ALSO, AGAIN, ONCE AGAIN-- TO ME, THE ANTIDOTE IS TO LOOK AT WHAT WORKS, THE EVIDENCE AND THE DATA.

NOW, YES, THERE IS A VAL-- A VALUES PROPOSITION, BUT I DO BELIEVE THERE ARE CORE AMERICAN VALUES WHERE THERE IS TREMENDOUS AGREEMENT.

UH, I THINK THAT EVERYONE HERE ON THIS PANEL, UH, IS ACTUALLY TAKING A RATHER PRAGMATIC APPROACH TOWARDS THIS.

I THINK WE'RE ALL INTERESTED IN WHAT WORKS.

UH, WHAT WORKS...CHANGES.

NO ONE WANTS PEOPLE TO LIVE IN POVERTY IN AMERICA.

THAT'S PRETTY CLEAR FROM WHAT EVERYBODY HAS SAID, UH, HERE, AND I APPRECIATE, UH, EVERYBODY'S IDEAS, AND I'M SURE THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION IN THE FUTURE.

I WANT TO THANK ALL OF OUR GUESTS FOR BEING WITH US AND CONTRIBUTING TO OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION FACING AMERICA--POVERTY.

IT'S A DEEPLY HELD AMERICAN PRECEPT THAT OUR COUNTRY STANDS FOR EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY, FOR THE CHANCE OF ANYONE BORN IN ANY SITUATION TO MAKE A DECENT LIFE FOR HIM OR HERSELF AND PERHAPS REACH THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF OUR SOCIETY.

OUR COUNTRY HAS NEVER STOOD FOR, NOR DO ANY SIGNIFICANT POLITICAL PLAYERS ON TODAY'S SCENE CALL FOR, EQUALITY OF CONDITIONS IN WHICH THE DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH AND INCOME IS MORE OR LESS FLAT.

ALL THAT SAID, WHEN MILLIONS OF AMERICAN CHILDREN DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE ENOUGH TO EAT OR HAVE ONLY BAD CHOICES, WHEN SOME AMERICANS OF ALL AGES DRINK CONTAMINATED WATER FROM CRUMBLING URBAN PUBLIC UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURES, WHEN LIFE EXPECTANCY ITSELF IS SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER FOR THE FOLKS IN THE BOTTOM QUINTILE OF THE DISTRIBUTION OF INCOME, AND THAT QUINTILE IS DISPROPORTIONATELY OF COLOR, ARE WE FULFILLING OUR PROMISE OF EQUAL OPPORTUNITY?

AND THEN THERE IS THE PHENOMENON OF THE HOMELESS.

MANY AMERICANS, ECONOMICALLY SEGREGATED IN MIDDLE-CLASS SUBURBS OR GEOGRAPHICALLY SEPARATED IN SMALL TOWNS, DON'T SEE MUCH OF THIS PHENOMENON, BUT URBAN AMERICANS SEE SCENES ON THE STREETS OF OUR BIG CITIES THAT CAN BE AS MORTIFYING AS IF THEY WERE OCCURRING IN THIRD-WORLD COUNTRIES.

SO IT SEEMS TO ME THE WHOLE TRUTH OF THE QUESTION OF POVERTY IN AMERICA IS AN URGENT NEED TO GET BEYOND THE FOSSILIZED RHETORIC AND PRESCRIPTIONS OF BOTH THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT.

NEITHER HIGHER TAXES AND MORE GOVERNMENT SERVICES NOR REDUCED TAXES AND REGULATIONS WILL IN THEMSELVES UNTANGLE THE COMPLICATED WEB OF SOCIAL, DEMOGRAPHIC, AND ECONOMIC SOURCES OF THE POVERTY WHICH REMAINS IN OUR COUNTRY.

WE NEED NEW THINKING AND NEW THINKERS TO DEDICATE THEMSELVES TO THE TRULY FULFILLING PROMISE OF OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL.

I'M DAVID EISENHOWER, AND I THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING WITH US ON "THE WHOLE TRUTH."

WOMAN: THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY... ANNOUNCER: PHILADELPHIA'S HISTORIC DISTRICT IS BEST KNOWN AS AMERICA'S BIRTHPLACE.

IT MIGHT SURPRISE YOU, THEN, THAT THE OLDEST PART OF PHILADELPHIA HAS THE LATEST AND GREATEST IN STREETS, PARKS, RESTAURANTS, AND SHOPS.

YOU'LL FIND VIBRANT ENERGY ALL AROUND.

LEARN MORE AT visitphilly.com.

WOMAN: THE MILL SPRING FOUNDATION, THE DORAN FAMILY FOUNDATION, AMETEK, AND BY... AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.