- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum", the inauguration is over, but the questions are just beginning.

From attacks on DEI, immigration shifts to a now rescinded federal funding freeze, President Trump's return is already making waves.

What does this mean for black communities in North Carolina and how can we stay ahead of the changes?

Join us for a critical discussion coming up next.

Stay with us.

- [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[electronic music] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum".

I'm Kenia Thompson.

Well, it's a new day in America, but for many of us, it feels like the same old fight.

President Trump is back in the White House, and already we're seeing major policy changes that could impact our health, our businesses, and our rights.

Today, we're breaking it all down from the economic shifts to the political signals that black communities cannot afford to ignore.

To help us make sense of it all, we have attorney and former North Carolina State auditor Jessica Holmes.

And joining her we have political analyst, Steve Rowe.

Welcome to the show.

- Welcome.

- Glad to be here.

- It's good to be here.

Great to be here.

- It's a lot to talk about and unpack.

I don't know if we'll have time, but we are just gonna get right into it.

Literally, on day one, we saw President Trump signing executive orders.

Over 20 has been reported to have been signed.

Some are saying the most in history that a president has signed on day one.

I'd love to hear, Jessica starting with you, what are some of the orders that he signed and some things that we should be paying attention to.

And then Steve, you can chime in.

- As you mentioned, it was a very busy first day in office for the current president.

Some of the executive orders included things like renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America to more significant actions such as withdrawing the United States from the Paris Climate Accord and the World Health Organization, as well as reinstating, for example, military service members that had exited service because of the COVID-19 pandemic and the requirement to take the COVID shot.

Also, most highlighted in the media recently are the attacks on DEI as it relates to federal employees and federal contracting.

- Yeah.

Steve, what impact do these orders have, potentially, the things that Jessica just highlighted.

- Yeah, they have really direct impact.

I mean, I think we've got a lot of monies that are coming in, and we're gonna talk about federal in a little while.

But for DEI programs, so it affects our university programs, DEI programs, people that have employment for those areas.

The other area is, you look at birthright citizenship.

We didn't mention that, but that's one where, like my own wife was born in another country and came here to the US.

So will they be allowed to be citizens?

And there's also an economic impact of that.

We often forget that Senator Pichai, the chairman of Microsoft, I mean the chairman of Google, Satya Nadella, the chairman of Microsoft, they were all from India and they're running multi-billion dollar companies.

So, but in North Carolina, I think the impact is just really the programs that we have, the jobs that we have, and also fear.

When you're anti-immigrant, the people are just living in fear.

And the federal cuts are really having a lot of impact just in terms of nonprofits and disaster recovery efforts.

'Cause that was an executive order too, I think the federal freezes.

And the reason they did it was to go against policies that may not comply with.

You know, Project 2025 and some of the Trump agenda, but that, you know, disaster recovery is on the table, veterans benefits, Head Start, you know, I mean, all of these programs in North Carolina are in jeopardy.

- And it's caused a lot of confusion, - A lot of confusion.

- A lot of confusion, I am a graduate of Head Start.

I am someone who benefited from Pell Grants and federal loans in order to attend college.

That's another area where people are just confused as to whether or not they will continue to receive federal funding or federal grants in order to attend our institutions.

North Carolina has the UNC system and also several incredible HBCUs and students like myself who depended on those loans and grants, now don't know if those things will continue.

- Right, and so it's been rescinded because there was so much confusion.

- Right.

- But what does that, what is resindization, I don't know.

What does rescinding mean though?

Does that just say we're pausing it, and but there's still a chance that these loans and grants may not be awarded?

Or do we just not know?

- I think we just don't know.

- We don't know.

- We are in the head of a madman, essentially, in my opinion.

And one day it's one thing, and another day it's something different.

So everyone who is impacted by these changes, I would recommend that they sleep with their eyes open.

- Right, and Attorney General Jackson, I'll give him credit in one of his first things he's done as our Attorney general is suing the Trump administration for the federal freezes on the account that, you know, $29 billion coming in that we need from the federal government to help in Western Carolina.

And our governor, Josh Stein, is spending a lot of his time in the western part of the state.

And so that's really something that's in jeopardy as well, as, you know, so many North Carolinians are still, you know, struggling.

- Yeah.

Well, another newsworthy worthy event that happened on day one was Bishop Budde's appeal during the prayer ceremony on Inauguration Day.

And I wanna just play that clip really quickly so that we can listen to that appeal, and then I wanna discuss the response afterwards.

Let's take a look.

- Let me make one final plea, Mr. President.

Millions have put their trust in you, and as you told the nation yesterday, you have felt the providential hand of a loving God.

In the name of our God, I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now.

There are gay, lesbian, and transgender children in Democratic, Republican, and independent families, some who fear for their lives.

And the people, the people who pick our crops and clean our office buildings, who labor in poultry farms and meat packing plants, who wash the dishes after we eat in restaurants and work the night shifts in hospitals, they may not be citizens or have the proper documentation, but the vast majority of immigrants are not criminals.

They pay taxes and are good neighbors.

They are faithful members of our churches and mosques, synagogues, gurdwara, and temples.

I ask you to have mercy, Mr. President, on those in our communities whose children fear that their parents will be taken away, and that you help those who are fleeing war zones and persecution in their own lands to find compassion and welcome here.

Our God teaches us that we are to be merciful to the stranger for we were all once strangers.

- We just watched that and afterwards, President Trump was asked, what were his thoughts about Bishop Budde's appeal?

And so I just want to read quote, "She brought her church into the world of politics in a very ungracious way.

She was nasty in tone and not compelling or smart."

I wanna pause there and get your initial reactions to that.

And then Steve, I'll pivot this question to you.

What do you say to his remark about church and state?

- Well, I think he's being hypocritical because if there's any president that I think has gone away from the First Amendment that you can't promote one religion or favor any religion is President Donald J. Trump, now the 47th president and also was the 45th.

If you look at his first term, he had a Muslim ban.

He provided faith-based exceptions to support discrimination.

At his inauguration, he was handing out inauguration Bibles and taking royalties from that.

So he's actually combining church and state, not separating them, promoting more the evangelicals.

So for him to say that, I think it goes against the really, the thing that Bishop Budde was doing, which was calling for empathy.

Empathy, which helps us have more unity.

Which helps our country become stronger rather than having our citizens in fear.

Regardless of whether you're an independent Democrat or Republican, a president's job should be to unite our nation around what we have in common, which is to provide the American dream to all Americans, so.

- Jessica?

- I second everything that Steve has said in terms of, I for one, am a fan of Bishop Budde and am grateful that she used the podium as an opportunity to make a plea for empathy and humanity.

Dr. Martin Luther King spoke a lot about silence and I appreciate that she used her platform to call for civility.

You mentioned as we started that the president has created waves in his first few weeks in office.

I would say it would be better classified as chaos and or a tsunami in terms of just the confusion.

And the only thing that has been increased that I have seen is just hatred and division across our country.

- Yeah, and on the contrary, we saw, I believe it was a little earlier in the day, Reverend Lorenzo, I believe, who essentially remixed Martin Luther King's speech, in my opinion, not a very tasteful way, but he had nothing to say about that, which we know that Reverend King was of the church.

- [Speaker] Yeah.

- And even in that prayer, there was no rebuttal there.

So it almost seems as though anything that goes against the things that he is signing into order or would like to implement then does not align, is what it feels like.

- Newsflash, Americans put a lot of tea into the Boston Harbor because we did not want to be led by a king or a dictator.

And that message seems that it hasn't made its way to the White House.

- Yeah, and faith is important for us to, you know, continue to move on as a nation.

= Yeah, well, let's talk about some of the things that Bishop Budde spoke about in her delivery.

DEI, so let's address that.

We've seen many public companies say either they are on the side of sticking to what they're doing with DEI or modifying their current DEI stances.

So the companies that are modifying, we've got McDonald's, Walmart, Meta, Ford, Lowe's home improvement, Target, Harley Davidson, John Deere and Amazon.

Okay, and the companies that have come out and said that we're sticking to our DEI work is Pinterest, Costco, Apple, Microsoft, e.l.f Cosmetics, Delta, and Cisco, just to name a few.

What do you think the real statement behind those companies that are saying, we're no longer doing DEI, what are they really saying to the public?

Jessica, I'll start with you.

- I would say that they are saying to the public that they don't want our dollars.

For example, we talk a lot about black jobs, and when I think of black jobs, I think of president of the United States, Vice President of the United States, black astronauts, black lawyers, doctors, entrepreneurs.

And so when we talk about black jobs, we should also talk about black dollars.

And what those companies are saying to me is that they don't want my black dollar, which is green and would be better spent at organizations and companies that better align with my values.

I recently became a member of Costco, and I think people should take note of the list that you mentioned, and they should use their voices and their dollars in a way that best aligns with their personal values.

Do you think that's realistic, Steve, for folks to, and I'm not disagreeing with you, just asking the question, right, because a lot of people go to Walmart because of discounts.

A lot of people go to McDonald's because that's what their kid wants.

Do you think people are gonna stop and say, oh, I'm not gonna go here today.

Is that realistic to think and do these companies realize that.

I mean, it could be a risk, right?

I mean, I think first of all, these companies are, you know, being very shortsighted.

Because any business isn't gonna succeed unless you have talent.

And the com competition for talent is very fierce.

So Microsoft, Apple, the Cisco's of the world, and we want more technology companies here, in my opinion, to grow these high paying jobs.

They're not gonna leave Silicon Valley and come here for a state that doesn't support DEI.

But I think that they're being shortsighted because I don't think people are gonna want to go and support people who don't provide diversity companies and it could affect them.

I'm not an expert on that, but I think that it is also, I think, gonna hurt those companies in terms of bringing in talent.

And so I look at it as an economic development issue.

I mean, we all remember what happened with HB2, right?

The billions of dollars were pulled out.

So fortunately we have a governor in Josh Stein that's very embracive of diversity inclusion.

So him being the front end of our economic development efforts along with the new commerce secretary Lee Lilley and Chris Chung at EDPNC, I think we support diversity, which is important for economic growth in creating jobs.

So it's shortsighted.

- And you mentioned talent, but we also have access to goods.

So for example, several of these companies are withdrawing or removing areas of their stores that were a part of their DEI initiatives.

So when you're talking about people going into these locations, you're also talking about the fact that they can no longer access certain goods that they might be going into that store to purchase.

- Another topic that's been highly contentious is immigration.

We've seen, well, I've seen, 'cause I'm a TikTok scroller, you know, I see people, especially for like the Raleigh Durham area, don't go hang out here because ICE is staked out.

Don't take your kids to school today because ICE may visit.

Steve, I'll pivot to you for this question.

What is the status of illegal immigrants and the potential that they may.

- As of today in North Carolina our legislature has supported through HB I think it's Senate Bill 382, that ICE can come and detain illegal immigrants.

So if you are here illegally, you are in jeopardy today in North Carolina of being deported.

So if people see a police car, I'm hearing stories that they're getting really afraid it's ICE.

It might just be a Mooresville policeman or in any town.

So there's fear.

And so there are organizations that are providing training.

If someone comes and says, where are your papers?

Right?

There are many people from India who are scared because their children are here.

They were documented dreamers.

And so they came here illegally, their kids are aging out.

Well, if the president in December told Kristen Welker that he would be in favor of extending DACA protection of the Democrats and then work together.

But now no one really believes that, right?

So what if they just come and say you have to leave, and then the birthright citizenship, there's a lot of rumors out there.

Can they take away my citizenship?

No.

The 14th Amendment says you were born in the United States, you're a naturalized citizen.

But to answer your question, I just think there's just a lot of fear and uncertainty.

And this has really got people in angst.

Imagine if someone comes into your school now they can come into the school.

So the Wake County schools, I think had to change some restrictions of, you know, allowing ICE to come in.

But, you know, the Plyler v. Doe decision, which is a Supreme Court decision said that any child in North Carolina has a right to an education regardless of their citizenship.

So all rules have changed now, and it's a very, very scary time for these illegal immigrants.

- Yeah, and I hear you when you say, you know, they can't take away my birthright citizenship.

However, there's a lot of things we thought they couldn't take away.

So how can I feel secure in that?

- Well, you can feel secure in that it would take an amendment to our constitution to change the 14th Amendment, which takes two thirds of the Senate and two thirds of the states.

So it can't happen.

Okay?

To make it uncomfortable.

- I'll come for you, Steve.

- It can't happen.

But I mean, if the president wanted.

- If I had President Trump right here, and I was speaking to him, I'd say, Mr. President, "Do it the right way, and have a comprehensive immigration reform bill where you can work with the House and Senate and address illegal immigration, extend the path to citizenship for those are here legally, and have an immigration system that makes sense, that's bringing in the best and brightest in the world."

And, you know, people that have the citizenship from birthright citizenship, they often get the, they're citizens, they get, like if they go to NC State or UNC, they get in-state tuition.

- [Interviewer] Right.

- But if you didn't provide that, they wouldn't.

But he's straight...

He's basically assuming that anyone coming here... And his wife was born in another country, the first lady, Melania Trump, which I find to be interesting.

- Yeah.

- And that's wife number three?

- Yes.

But yeah, the current Trump, Melania Trump.

- Four?

- The first lady.

- What are your thoughts on immigration, Jessica?

- It is enshrined in North Carolina's constitution that every child is entitled to a sound basic education.

And in order for us to fulfill that mandate, students have to feel safe.

And at this point, when you have students that are afraid to go to school, when you have parents that are afraid to go to work, we are seeing across the country, particularly in states that are agricultural in nature, that farm workers aren't showing up to work.

- [Interviewer] Yeah.

- So when we talk about the price of eggs, and we talk about the price of goods, not to mention tariffs, the potential for tariffs, we are entering sort of a new era in politics.

And I would also note in terms of what is and is not possible, I think this president has redefined what is and is not possible in politics.

- [Interviewer] Yeah.

- Yep.

- I'd agree with that.

You know, we are embarking into Black History Month, and this is a month where, which we should always feel pride in our culture and being Black.

And I lump in other variations of Blackness in that, too.

But there doesn't seem to, well, again, I'm gonna speak for myself 'cause I'm not here to speak for the masses, but I don't feel a sense of strong morale.

I honestly am afraid sometimes to walk outside and present with my Blackness.

I'm afraid to have my flag on my truck, of my Haitian culture and heritage.

And, you know, when I think about what Black History Month means, it doesn't feel like I can celebrate that openly.

I don't know the question that I'm asking, but I just wanna understand, is this really impacting us as a culture?

And how do we deal with that?

- I would be a multimillionaire if I could unpack all of that.

But I think the reality is, at least for me, it has made me step further into my Blackness.

And the reality is I celebrate Black History Month 365 days of the year.

And, you know, I am not deterred by whether or not, you know, I didn't ask the president whether or not I could celebrate Black History Month.

- Yeah.

- And his opinion of whether it should or should not exist is irrelevant to whether or not I celebrate my Blackness and I celebrate my culture.

But I do agree that on election night, I felt as a Black woman, less safe in America.

And so while people are talking about the price of eggs and illegal aliens, a term that I disagree with in and of itself, I mean, we're we're talking about people.

- Right.

- We're talking about humanity.

We're talking about what Bishop Budde was trying to get across that.

America was founded upon a melting pot.

- Mm-hmm.

- Yeah.

- And when we talk about the elimination of DEI and people of color, in general, feeling less safe in this country, we should also be mindful that the greatest beneficiary of affirmative action and DEI initiatives are not Black people.

- Yeah.

- Right.

And the only thing I'll add to that, 'cause I know our time is limited, is that, you know, when your Trump 2.0 Trumponomics, you know, it's deregulation, it's a terrifying experience, isn't it?

Not to play on words, but high tariffs, which are gonna lead to higher costs.

These policies are gonna hurt, marginalized communities are gonna pay higher prices for things.

The elimination of DEI programs will threaten Black Americans who still face discrimination in the workplace, right?

Transgender and LGBTQ, there are Black Americans that are in that category.

So all of these policies will hurt minority communities.

And then the final thing we don't talk about is the environment.

Deregulation makes it a worse environment, environmental policies.

And when that happens, it's been proven that poor Black communities will suffer with bad environment, bad water, not clean drinking water, those kinds of things.

- Yeah.

- So these are all on the table, but it is Trump 2.0, it is Trumponomics, he's delivering what we said, and we now have to be prepared as the American people on what the economic and cultural consequences are for our nation.

- Yeah.

Well, I wanna take time out to, I guess, put a little more positive spin on things [guests laughing] before we end this show, because we are going into Black History Month.

And if you also need a boost in morale, there are plenty of communities across North Carolina that are putting on events that are rich and culturally immersive.

And so I wanted to share a few of those, we'll pop that up.

So, first, we've got The History of Gospel Music.

This is a journey through time in music, an event that the entire family will enjoy from two to four on Saturday, February 1st.

If you're watching this in real-time, that is tomorrow.

That's gonna be at Mount Calvary Word of Faith Church in Raleigh, off of Sanderford Road.

And then we've got Celebrating Black Cinema.

This is honoring Black History Month with contemporary films and classics, featuring many of the legends that we well know, from 6:30 to 8:30 at the Cary Regional Library on Tuesday, February 4th, off of Kildaire Farm Road.

And then we've got a Taste of Black.

This is a sweet and soulful experience where you get to enjoy some food made by some amazing chefs, you know, immerse yourself in culture, love, and community.

This will be held from 7:15 to 10:15 on Friday, February 7th, over there off of Seaboard Avenue, downtown Raleigh.

And then, lastly, for this week, we are sharing the Afro Legacy Fest.

This is gonna take place at the Harvey Gantt Center in Charlotte.

Hands-on art experiences, discussions, dance workshops, and so much more, it's a whole day thing, bring your family out.

12 to 5:00 PM on Saturday, February 8th.

So, again, that's at the Harvey Gantt Center in Charlotte, North Carolina.

So lots of great events that people can attend- - Yeah.

- And kind of rebuild community, build up our morale back up- - Be positive.

- And be positive, right?

'Cause that's what we need.

That's what need.

- Absolutely.

- Well, thank you so much for being here.

We had a lot to dissect.

- A lot to unpack.

- Yes, yes.

- A lot to unpack.

As I said, happy Black History Month to all of you.

- Yes, happy Black History Month.

Thank you so much- - And belated Happy New Year.

[Kenia laughing] - Jessica Holmes, thank you so much.

And we thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/black-issues-forum, and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson, I'll see you next time.

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