(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to Prairie Pulse.

Coming up a little bit later in the show we'll hear a musical performance from The Jensen Sisters, but first Matt Olien got a chance to interview one of the leaders of the Fargo-Moorhead chapter of Black Lives Matter.

- And joining me today is Faith Dixon.

She's a board member with the Fargo-Moorhead chapter of Black Lives Matter.

She's also the vice president of the Regional chapter of the NAACP.

Faith welcome to Prairie Pulse.

- Thank you so much for having me.

- So first of, we're gonna get into a lot of issues with Black Lives Matter but first tell folks about yourself, your background where you're from originally.

- Okay, I'm originally from Chicago, Illinois the suburbs of Chicago (mumbles) park.

We moved here, I'm also a pastor's kid, a PK.

We moved here in 2003.

From that suburb of Chicago, my father was asked to take over another ministry and so it was supposed to be a short term (laughs) project, but it ended up being a long term.

And so here love the Fargo-Moorhead area, I am a entrepreneur so I do run three businesses here as well.

So just excited to continue to grow here and continue to do what I need to do for the community.

- So tell me how the Black Lives Matter chapter of Fargo-Moorhead started.

- Well, I believe this past summer, June, 2020 there was a group of students and other activists in the community such as West of one Fargo, who was kind of on the front lines, doing some activism work after the death of George Floyd, but they did kind of split.

So Black Lives Matter was kind of left out there in open and I really felt the need to continue that mission and that movement.

So I just got a group of us together, some other activists in the community that love to helping push for that change.

And we just put a chapter together and we've been going ever since.

So really excited about that.

- And what is the mission, I know people can look up on the internet certain goals and things like that for BLM nationwide.

But what is the mission?

- Well, the mission is to most definitely push for equality for all people of color, no matter your gender, your age, it's there to push for equality and also hold law enforcements accountable for their actions.

- You mentioned the George Floyd murder that seemed to be the tipping point.

You know, finally, I guess the tipping point to kind of get things started here in the Fargo-Moorhead area.

Why was that such a tipping?

I mean, we know why it was but just explain why that was the tipping point, you think.

- I believe that, I mean, after we saw numerous murders from law enforcement, in the hands of law enforcement with the killing of Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, I believe that George Floyd just was that tipping of that boiling point to see a man beg for his life, beg for his mother was just horrific to watch.

And to see that there was no one there to help and that he lost his life on May 25th.

I believe the whole world was able to see something that we've been fighting for since the death of Trayvon Martin in 2013, we were just, I believe that the people were just tired and I believe that they wanted to see change.

And it happened to come on May 25th.

- What kind of police reforms is your group looking for?

- The banning of chokeholds, the banning of pro-restraint accountability within the police department and some other things that we're working on even in our local community here we're working towards pushing for those police reform.

I know some might say black lives matter is about abolishing the police.

And that is not my belief, I believe in defunding or reforming the police department where we can almost definitely lend a helping hand their way because we know their plate is full, dealing with a lot of calls and things like that.

So just putting the money where it needs to be to help and build up a better community.

- You mentioned defunding the police.

I know Barack Obama recently weighed in on that.

He was concerned about the branding of that word because branding can be very important in politics and what he felt was that suggests something beyond reforms.

It suggests if people don't study it means there's no police force but can you explain what defunding the police means and is that the proper branding or should be rebranded, do you think (laughs)?

- I believe that, you know, I would say the media has really taken that word and interpreted it incorrectly.

I believe defunding the police to me, and what we're doing is being able to allocate funds into other areas, such as social services, other areas that can help the police department in answering those calls that it doesn't have to end in the life and the death of a person of color or anybody.

And so I believe that defunding might not be the word I like to say, reform and reforming the police department and giving them the help they need and assistance they need to be able to better equip them for helping you know, during those emergency calls in our community.

So I believe the word it's been taken out of context and I believe that there probably could be a better word, defunding and abolish is just one of those words that people just don't like to see here these days (laughs).

So I think that reform is much of a better word.

- Has BLM been able to have a meeting yet with the new police chief of Fargo and also maybe the police chief in Moorhead?

Tell me about that.

- We have had a meeting with the new police Chief Zibolski and we're very hopeful that some of the, I don't even wanna call it demands.

I would say some of the topics that we have raised in our community can be answered and be, most definitely they can commit to doing that for the better of the community.

We need accountability.

We need transparency within the police department and the community, especially the community of people of color.

So we have been in talks with Chief Zibolski as well as Mayor Mahoney on those topics.

- And now how do you feel those conversations have gone?

- They have been going very well.

We're continuing to meet with them.

We're excited about the reform.

We're excited about the reform and coming together so that there's one common goal and it's to make people in the community feel safe in trusting the police department.

So I believe that when the chief came on board that was one of his goals.

And I believe that he is, I think that he's capable of doing that.

It's not gonna be easy, it's not gonna be quick and fast, but I do believe that, I'm very hopeful that he can do that for us.

- Now the next question I'm gonna ask you, obviously, no one from the Moorhead police department is here to respond.

It's just you and I, but you had a traffic stop.

I know this fall in Moorhead.

Can you tell me about that?

- Huh, not a good stop exact (laughs), but yes I was pulled over on my way home, to my other home in Moorhead and, I believe I was racially profiled.

The officers, I saw them way before they stopped me on the opposite side of the road there and I was very fearful, people, you know, to us at this time a traffic stop is very scary.

We automatically think about people that have been killed on just a normal traffic stop.

And the officer at the time seemed to be very upset when he approached my vehicle and tried to open the door.

And it led even more fear.

I have even more fear and at that point I was crying.

I was kind of yelling, trying to get some answers on why I was being detained or why I was being pulled over.

And so I was very upset because I am aware that a lot of the police departments officers know who I am and I believe that it could have been handled in a very different way, a different matter just being professional on his end which I did not see that day.

But, you know, I have put it in the past.

I am working with the police department in Fargo and hoping that no one has to ever be afraid of their life during a traffic stop.

- And what was the result of that?

Did you get a citation or something for speeding or what was going on?

- Yep, I did get a citation for speeding.

I did fight the citation.

I went to court and I expressed my concerns and I still was found guilty in a court of law.

There is a block of where it is 30 miles per hour.

And then within that block from 17 to 18th street there is a 40 miles per hour.

So within one block, the judge felt that I was speeding within that timeframe.

And it is very hard to, you know fight those tickets on speeding, but the reason and I wasn't at all, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I'll pay the fine.

My issue was the way that I was treated during that traffic stop.

- Do you think the goals of Martin Luther King per racial equality, tell me, has there been progress, do you feel since he was killed in 1968?

- I believe the progress that we have saw so far is the ending of segregation, but I don't feel as if we've seen any progress in regards to equality.

Everyone being treated equal, discrimination.

I don't feel that has, we haven't gone from the sixties.

I was talking to my mother the other day.

And I said, mom, you know, remember when I used to say "I know that I could never live "in the sixties and the fifties, "because all of the hate and all the racism "that was being spewed out during that time."

But now I turn around and I say, even in 2021 we're dealing with the same type of racism, from the police law enforcement brutality to just citizens killing each other, it's sad to see that we can't walk and we can't even run in a community without being gunned down.

And so have I seen some change?

Yes, but not much.

- What about Dr. King's quote, "Judge on the content of the care "not the color of the skin."

Does that align with Black Lives Matters goals and thinking?

- I do believe so.

I do believe so.

I believe that that's one of my favorite quotes that I preach and I believe that we all should be treated equal no matter what.

And I believe that that is a stand and that's why the black lives matter movement was formed in 2013, because a black boys life was taken, but just because the color of his skin.

And so those three ladies that put black lives movement together, I do believe that was their mission.

And it has grown (laughs).

It has grown since then, but I do believe that they started off believing that everyone should be treated equal.

- How do you define systematic racism?

We hear that word a lot.

Do you believe it exists in the United States, and what is it?

- Systematic racism.

Yes, I do believe it.

It's here.

It's even here in our local community when you can treat someone differently because they're in a different class or because the color of my skin I do believe that it happens.

And it happens on a day-to-day basis.

Even here in Fargo, we see a lot of systemic racism.

We are trying to educate and give people awareness about what it is and how they cannot be-- how they don't have to be biased to some you know, situations, but it is here.

And I think the biggest point is for people to understand what it is and start changing their mindset.

- Where does black lives matter stand on kind of a somewhat controversial topic of removing names from buildings or statues, Confederate monuments, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and even some controversy over some statues and names of Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses Grant who of course were on the union side of the civil war.

What does BLM stand on that or is it, do different people have different views on this?

- Well, you know, I wouldn't say that it's a BLM standard on that.

I can say as a person of color and working with Jim Shaw in removing of the Woodrow Wilson name in our own local community, I believe that no child should have to be subjected to attending a school where a person has spewed off hate and racism.

I don't feel that that person should be honored.

Growing up in Chicago, we had schools that were named Martin Luther King, and now there's Academy of Barack Obama and Rosa Parks and things like that, of people that have done great things in the community, great things in the world.

So I don't feel like a child should be subject and it should be a public building where people like myself have to attend or would attend that has to be honoring of a racist.

- How about Lincoln and Grant, is that (chuckles) where do you fall on that one?

- You know, and this is just my opinion.

You know, Abraham Lincoln was, you know he had some racist behavior in some of his thoughts and his practices.

You know, that's (laughs) we go back and forth with some of those names but I really do believe that before there is buildings that are named, I believe they should look in the history and look at it for all people, not just one, all people.

And see what that person believed in and look at that and say, okay, you know what?

Maybe they were very mean and racist towards native Americans or people of color.

So I think that they should look at that before naming buildings to make sure that every group, every culture can be proud of that person.

- I wanna ask you one of the more to some, controversial stance of BLM is kind of this move towards shared equity, property rights, things like that kind of a move away from capitalism.

Can you talk about that and what that exactly means?

- Well capitalism to me means the people needs are not met.

Property is valued more with people's needs in their lives.

As we're seeing on the pipeline even now, the people are just tearing up their environment for money.

It's always a wealthier gets wealthy, and the poor gets poor.

I believe that BLM stands on that is people over property, people's needs, people's basic needs over wealth.

The wealthy is getting wealthier and it's horrible for our economy.

It puts people in a different class where they're being mistreated.

And I don't like that is fair.

It's not fair.

And so we are totally against capitalism and we believe that everybody should be treated equal no matter where their status is.

No matter if they're poor, no matter if they're wealthy they should all be treated equal.

- What is a critical race theory?

Can you explain that.

- Critical race theory, all that is (laughs).

- Is that one you wanna tackle or not?

- I'm thinking I'm gonna pass on that (laughs).

- Okay, all right.

We can move on.

What about prison and justice system reforms?

Any thoughts on that?

- I'd rather not speak on that one either.

- Okay, we move on.

Why do you believe white privilege exists in the United States which is kind of an offshoot of an earlier question I asked about systematic racism.

- Repeat the question one more time.

- White privilige, does it exist and what is it and why do you think it exists in the U.S.?

- I do believe white privilege does exist.

I do believe that as we can see what just happened on January 6, with most of the protesting that was happening before, how we've African-Americans or people of color have been called domestic terrorists and thugs and have been given this horrible title of a militia group just for marching and protesting against law enforcement and police brutality.

And then we see what happened on January 6, where a group of white counterparts that went to the Capitol and looted and riot, and they were called heroes.

We can clearly see that.

- Guess a lot of more gonna be charged sounds like but continue.

- A lot of them are, but there was thousands of people there and not just 20 or 40 there.

I mean, if you looked at some of them riots or some of the marches that happened in Minneapolis, I would say a lot of them were not horrible.

A lot of them were not bad, but they automatically put us in these boxes saying that if you are black, and if you are fighting for or marching with BLM, then you're automatically a thug.

You're a terrorist.

You know, you become a looter and a rioter.

So I believe that white privilege does happen.

And for instance, if someone else was driving and got a speeding ticket would a police officer try to open up their door and try to snatch them out their vehicle as it happened to me?

So I believe that it does happen and people need to be aware of it and not say that it doesn't because it is very relevant in today's, what we're going through every single day is see white privilege and it's not there.

- Now, I do hear some people talk about like the spring, some of the protests, you know there were a lot of protests after the George Floyd murder and there were some, you know some burning of buildings and things like that.

Where does BLM come down on that in terms of prosecution of those kinds of acts?

When is it not justified, and when is it not justified in your view?

- It's never justified.

BLM does not support burning of buildings and looting and rioting.

I can understand it.

I understand that when the police agitate crowds such as throwing pepper bombs and spraying them and smoke bombs and, you know, doing things to agitate a crowd, I believe that's what happens and it boils over to that.

But as far as BLM stands out, it's never condone violence.

It has been always formed as a non-violent group.

Non-violence it believes in non-violence.

But I believe that we just saw a man killed on live TV or live social media.

And I believe that they wanted answers in Minneapolis.

They wanted answers all over the world.

And I believe that the president at the time which was Trump spewed hate stated that it was not, we could not march we could not continue to protest against this.

And once that happened, he gave the okay to do what was necessary to stop that.

And we saw police officers all over the world using (mumbles) and pepper spray and smoke bombs and rubber bullets when there was peaceful marching.

Just here in Fargo when we did our George Floyd, we saw that, and I don't believe that it got out of hand until that happened.

I was there and I was down there during that time and I believe I saw it was peaceful, and when they felt that they were losing control we saw the smoke bombs.

We saw the rubber bullets.

So I believe that the police department should not agitate crowds.

They should show a different type of approach to those.

- Almost out of time.

If people want to get involved, more information on Black Lives Matter, where can they go, who can they contact?

- They can locate us on our social media on Facebook and we also have a website www.blacklivesmatterfm.com and they can get in contact with us there.

- Okay, thank you Faith for being here.

- Thank you for having me.

- Stay tuned for more.

(upbeat music) - Kendra and Kansas Jensen are singer songwriters from Goodridge, Minnesota, who have quickly taken the music industry by surprise.

Here they are performing Yellow Frames, the title track from the new album.

♪ There they are ♪ ♪ Sitting on the counter ♪ ♪ Begging for the chance to make my whole day brighter ♪ ♪ In the pocket of my coat ♪ ♪ I take them everywhere I go ♪ ♪ Into this big world ♪ ♪ Where the madness can't be tamed ♪ ♪ Living life through yellow frames ♪ ♪ Put 'em on watch the weather change ♪ ♪ It becomes what you make ♪ ♪ Seeing things in a golden way ♪ ♪ Living life through yellow frames ♪ ♪ Put 'em on let your worries fade ♪ ♪ Suns a shining through the shade ♪ ♪ Living life through yellow frames ♪ ♪ The stars shine ♪ ♪ When you ain't looking ♪ ♪ And the grass is always greener on the other side ♪ ♪ Why the hell ♪ ♪ Do you keep searching ♪ ♪ For something brighter ♪ ♪ While the sun shines in your eyes ♪ ♪ Living life through yellow frames ♪ ♪ Put 'em on let the weather change ♪ ♪ It becomes what you make ♪ ♪ Seeing things in a golden way ♪ ♪ Living life through yellow frames ♪ ♪ Put em on let your worries fade ♪ ♪ Suns a shining through the shade ♪ ♪ Living life through the yellow frames ♪ - Well, that's all we have for Prairie Pulse this week.

And as always, thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] Funded by the Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008, and by the members of Prairie Public.