(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to "Prairie Pulse."

Coming up a little bit later in the show, we'll hear a musical performance from the Robb Justice and his band, but first, our guest is Kirsten Baesler, the superintendent of Public Instruction for North Dakota.

Kirsten, thanks so much for joining us today.

- Thank you for having me, John.

- As we get started, tell the folks a little bit about yourself and your background.

- Sure.

As you said, I'm the state superintendent for the North Dakota Department of Public Instruction, which makes me in charge of the schools, the K-12 students in North Dakota and all the schools to which they go to school.

So we are actually at the department responsible for ensuring that all of our schools, both public and non-public schools in the state, are abiding by all federal and state expectations for our students.

And then of course, we make sure that our teachers are licensed and we do all sorts of good things.

Essentially, when you talk about what our mission is, our mission is to provide the support that is necessary to our schools to ensure that they are making their students as successful as possible for their life after K-12 system.

Before becoming the state superintendent, I was myself an educator at a local school district.

I worked for the Bismarck public school system for 24 years in all sorts of roles.

I started out as a special education teacher aide and worked my way through college, became a classroom teacher, library media specialist, a vice principal, worked at the district level at the district office, and I guess just as importantly, across the river from where I worked in Bismarck, I was raising my three sons in Mandan and became very involved in the Mandan school system over there and then the community.

And I was on the Mandan School Board for nine years, and I served as president of that board for seven of those nine years.

- So a lot of years in education is what it sounds like.

- Yes, yep.

- But it's been an interesting year, obviously, and we all know this.

But can you talk about the immense challenges, I guess COVID presented the schools this past year?

- We all knew going into the '20-'21 school year that there were gonna be some significant challenges and obstacles set forth for our students, our teachers, our families.

Those all occurred.

The one thing that I think we have to talk about is the fact that never once did I ever underestimate or did I ever waiver in my belief that our North Dakota educators were gonna deliver exactly what our students needed, and they did.

It's National Teacher Appreciation Week this week, and I think this year more than any other year, we should absolutely thank our teachers, and by teachers, everyone that has touched a person's, a young person's life this year, whether that be child nutrition workers, those bus drivers, those school secretaries, those paraprofessionals, those classroom teachers, principals, superintendents, those families that suddenly became teachers at home.

It really is a week to celebrate the teaching and learning that's been going on.

And so as we look back, we had a variety of schools start their school year this fall in a different way.

Of course, every school last spring, the buildings were closed.

Learning did not stop.

Governor Burgum had said, "By April 1st, every school in the state must begin educating their students again."

And he gave him some time to plan, and by April 1st of 2020, students were learning again to complete that last school year.

But when we came to this fall, we were at a different place throughout our state, and we gave the opportunity for our local school boards to make the decision about how they would open up their schools.

Some opened up face to face, 100% of their students going face to face five days a week, others were in a hybrid model, and finally, some are still in distance learning to this day.

Just a few, just a handful are still in distance learning, but those were the challenges at the state department, at least the Department of Public Instruction, trying to fulfill our mission of supporting all of our students and all of our schools when there was such a variety of delivery models out there.

- Exactly.

So how did your department handle things?

Y'all weren't in the office for much of that time early on, I'm sure.

- No, we weren't.

There was a core team of us because you had certain essential workers that needed to continue to go to work.

Obviously, we had our first responders.

We had our medical professionals, we had our in our police officers and our firefighters, and we had the core government staff.

The same was true.

Since the governor had given the mandate that education must continue and that we weren't going to take a break, K-12 education became an essential service.

And so there was a core team of us of about a dozen that continued to come to the office and work.

But as you noted, the majority of our team pivoted within a week to go to distance telecommuting as well.

What did we do?

It was really in phases.

As we look back, the first objective was to get our students learning last spring in a full 100% distance learning model.

As soon as we got all of the distance learning plans approved by the governor and our students were learning at a distance learning model for the spring semester, we immediately began preparing for guidelines and expectations for a soft startup for summer school.

So we presented guidelines to have our summer school start up, and then as soon as we got those up and running, we began preparing the guidelines to have our schools start in the manner of which they wanted and the expectations.

And so at that point, we just supported our local school districts, answering their questions so their school boards could make the decision.

- Yeah.

Now did you say at least these last few months currently?

- Yes.

- Have all schools been in person?

Are there still some doing- - There are still some that are still 100% distance, just a handful.

I think I maybe have three that are still in 100% distance.

We still have some that are in a hybrid model because of just the space constraints, but the majority, the vast majority, like about 97% of our schools, I do believe about 3% of our schools are in operating in a hybrid or distance.

So 97% of our students are in face-to-face learning five days a week.

- I know this question comes up, mask mandates.

How will that be treated?

Will it be a local school board decision, or will your department have some input?

- No, that will be a 100% local school decision.

The legislature actually weighed in on that, and they actually passed a bill that was vetoed, and then the veto was overturned by our Senate, our House and Senate, that stated that the state health officer nor the governor can make a state mandate for mask wearing.

And so again, that will be a local school district decision.

It was just for a short period of time did the governor and the state health officer say that it was a mandate.

So we've been operating most of the school year under that model of local school districts making that decision.

You mentioned going back just a little bit about what else was very different with our state agency at the Department of Public Instruction.

We'd always had a good working relationship with our North Dakota Department of Health because, of course, we collaborated on schooling immunizations that are necessary to enter school in order to register for any school.

But wow, I don't know that I've ever seen a time where the education agency and the public health agency have ever had to coordinate and work as closely together.

I think a lot of times, obviously, I have that good working relationship with our local school leaders, and so they would call the Department of Public Instruction to ask a question about a health issue.

And so the collaboration between local public health, local school district, state health, and state education just grew exponentially during this last school year.

- Now can you talk a little bit more about the kids, especially ones falling behind and the struggles with distance learning and maybe even what's being done to assist them?

- So, yes.

So I think many of our students have been in school face to face 100% of the school year.

And so many, I think, could jump to the conclusion, and I would say it's an incorrect conclusion, that there was no harm, no foul, right?

They started school this fall.

They missed a few weeks last spring.

I would argue with that.

I would argue strongly against that.

Even if you were in a school district where our students were going face to face 100% of the school year, no one can deny that the COVID-19 pandemic has caused disruption and chaos in everyone's lives and in our communities, our state and our nation and our world.

And when disruption occurs and a bit of chaos occurs in a young person's life, whether they be five, 15 or 25, that disruption and that chaos impacts that child's ability to learn.

And so we must acknowledge.

I've always been a big believer in the saying of you can't really begin to solve a problem until you admit that there is a problem and you find out exactly what that problem is to find solutions for it.

We will have students in every corner of this state that didn't do as well this last year as they would have had we not had COVID-19 presence in our lives.

And so with that being said, the term learning loss is one that's been used quite frequently.

It's not one that we like to use at the Department of Public Instruction.

Learning loss tends to give children, teachers, and their families the impression that they didn't do enough and it kind of is a deficit mindset.

And so we don't talk about how are we gonna overcome learning loss?

We use terms like how will we accelerate the learning recovery?

That positive mindset.

But also I think it's very important to understand that you can't lose something you never had.

And so some of our students simply were not taught double digit multiplication or division.

When they weren't taught that, they didn't have the ability to lose it, so we also use the term unfinished learning.

So what are some things that our students haven't been exposed to?

They tried to get to it this school year but they just weren't able to, that unfinished learning.

That is a significant issue that we must deal with, and what are we doing?

Couple things.

Fortunately, the federal government has recognized that need to address the unfinished learning and accelerate the learning recovery, and they've provided a significant amount of funds, federal funds, in order to help our schools hire enough teachers, provide enough instruction and materials, and provide some extra learning opportunities so we can accelerate our learning recovery.

And our state legislature has also provided that 1%, 1% increase to our funding formula that will allow our schools to continue to build on the programs without having to worry about just relying on one-time funding.

And so those two things, our school districts all across the state are working with a 19-point plan, and I've actually worked with the state teachers of the year, former state teachers of the year, to come up with a guidebook of their suggestions on how they would recommend to their local school districts to spend that funding in order to accelerate that learning recovery.

So that's the department's role right now is assisting and providing support, ideas, and the funding delivery of those federal funds and state funds to our schools.

- What can you say about the appreciation of the challenges that parents face during this time and then teachers also?

They're different than each other 'cause they had different roles, but- - They are different, but they're so similar.

I think both families, and when I say families, of course I include parents, we've all seen, I think, that it went far beyond just the mother and the father in a family.

It went to aunties and uncles and grandmas and grandpas and older brothers and older sisters that were helping their younger siblings learn.

The entire family community was impacted, and I think what they have in common with teachers, with all educators is I think they're at a point, I think that they have been complete exhaustion in their need for compassion, their need for understanding, as well as their need for instruction and guidance and high expectations.

We never wanna lower our expectations for our young people.

So families weren't able to do that, even though they were exhausted emotionally and physically sometimes.

And so that partnership between families and schools was strengthened during this COVID-19 pandemic.

That is one thing.

We all talk about going back to normal.

There are a couple things that I hope we don't go back to normal on.

I hope we never forget how important that school to home connection is and how important that partnership is between school and home, and I hope that we don't just simply dismiss a new way of doing teaching and learning.

A lot of people say, "Distance learning didn't work for my child," and I would say that it didn't work for most.

It did work for some, but I'm not gonna say that it was because distance learning doesn't work or using Zoom or Google Hangouts doesn't work.

It means that our teachers, families, and students didn't simply have enough time to prepare to do it well.

So I hope we don't walk back to normal and just because that was a 2019 way of doing education.

Nothing else is just staying at a 2019 or even a 1959 model of education, as sometimes we can see in our classrooms.

I hope that we understand and realize that these young people are capable of doing tremendous things, and there are some phenomenal tools out there.

So we should be looking and reflecting on what worked well and what can we continue on in this new model and what do we really need to get better at.

- Well, it's interesting, and yeah, we should talk more.

But this summer, are you seeing more students enrolling in summer school just because of the situation?

- So it's a mixed bag actually, and so we do.

I'm seeing more of our school districts that never had summer school before will have summer school programs this summer.

We are seeing students that had never enrolled in summer school classes before, whether they be elementary, middle, or high school, and now they're enrolling.

So not only are we expanding summer school programs.

We're increasing the number of students that are taking advantage of those programs.

But it's not mandatory.

We have some families and some students that are just saying, "For my own mental health, for my own social, emotional wellbeing, I just need to take a nine-week break."

- You've seen that maybe the schools weren't super spreaders as much as they predicted for COVID?

- We didn't know, and when when we first learned about the coronavirus, there was so many more unknowns than we knew.

Fortunately, we saw that our schools were not the super spreaders that some predicted they might be in the spring and summer of last year.

So by the grace of God, we were able to keep our kids in school most of the school year.

- What's your hope for maybe not your expertise, but when when kids of all ages will be eligible for vaccination?

- They're doing the testing right now on how safe it is for young people under the age of 16.

I hope that families have that conversation among themselves to say, just like they do with the flu vaccine, "Is this something?

Do we have vulnerable people in our family?

Do we have vulnerable people in our household?"

What is the best decision for that family to make for that child 16 and under?

- Well, and you mentioned vaccinations and going to school, but will a COVID vaccination, in your opinion, should it be a requirement for attending a school in North Dakota?

- So there are a certain number of vaccinations, immunizations that are required in order to register for school in North Dakota.

The flu vaccination and the coronavirus vaccination are not on that list.

I don't anticipate that they ever will be, and I don't believe they should be.

Again, I believe that's a conversation that should be had with the family.

- Okay.

Real quick, hindsight, spring 2020.

Do you think schools should have gone to distance learning totally quicker?

Or if you do it again, would there have been changes or modifications?

Of course, this is hindsight.

- Sure, it is.

As I reflect on March 13th, Friday, March 13th, the governor and I had a press conference.

We laid out the decision tree.

We had one confirmed case in, I believe it was Minot, North Dakota.

We were gonna leave it up to local school districts to make that decision.

By Sunday morning, there was a tremendous amount of cases that had occurred in the Minnesota side of our eastern North Dakota schools, and even the Fargos, the West Fargos, the Grand Forks, Wahpetons, and the entire state was saying, "We need to make a decision."

So I think the governor made the right decision.

He stepped up before that weekend and he said, "We're gonna find more out about this virus before we jeopardize our young people and our teachers."

So I think we did the right thing, and I think we turned our local control back to our schools this summer for this next school year at the right time as well.

So we can always get better, but I think we did the best, and I think we saved a lot of lives because of it.

- Well, let's move into the session.

How did K-12 fare during the recent legislative session?

- As always, North Dakota legislature placed a high priority on education.

K-12 education did well.

I was visiting with the president of the North Dakota university system Board of Higher Education today, and they did well.

North Dakota citizens place high value in educating its young people, and we fared well.

They killed some bills that shouldn't have made it into law, and they supported bills that will help our young people.

- Yeah.

Can you explain funding formulas, how they work?

- Sure.

I sure can.

And this is a very good point.

So not every state has the same type of funding formula that we have.

And in fact, North Dakota has a funding formula model of paying for its K-12 education.

And what that means when you're a state that has a funding formula model, it means that you are a state where you provide a certain dollar amount for every student that goes to that school district, and this year it is 10,036. the legislature approved an increase, and so it will be $10,136 next year and $10,237 the following year.

So that's the base funding formula.

And there are weighting factors that go onto that base funding formula.

If you have a certain number of students that are considered at risk, and that is used using a socioeconomic factor, you'll get an additional weighting factor for those students that have those risks.

You'll get a certain weighting factor for students that have English language needs, or you will have another weighting factor for students with disabilities.

And so when you add up all of those students and you figure out how much each one of your students is receiving from the state, we add that together, and the Department of Public Instruction delivers that out on a funding formula model to our school districts.

It's different in other states where, I hate to call it a per head model, but that's essentially the best way to say it.

In North Dakota, funding formula is a per student model.

Other states, I'd say there's about 18 or 20 other states that have the cost to educate model, and so they determine you have X number of students in your district.

You'll need to have no more than 20 students in a classroom, and this is how much it costs to stand up a classroom and have a teacher, a full-time teacher and a half-time aide.

So they that's called a resource allocation model.

So that's our funding formula model in North Dakota.

So hopefully that was enough to understand and not too much to overwhelm.

- And then in addition to that, there's talk about federal tax dollars, no matter what it's called, CARES Act, stabilization funds.

How much are you getting for education, and what will you use that for?

- Certainly.

So there were essentially three packages, I think, that we're all aware of.

So the first package in March of 2020, North Dakota received $33.3 million just for K-12 education.

So I should maybe step back.

So all three packages had an element in it was called the Elementary Secondary School Emergency Relief Fund.

So in March 2020, we received SR1, December 2020 received SR2, and March of 2021, we received SR3.

March of 2020, we received 33.3, December of 2020, we received 122.5 million for K-12, and this most recent round, we received $303 million for K-12 education.

90% of those funds of all three packages are delivered straight out directly out to our local school districts.

And so those are in our school districts' checking accounts, if you will, at the Department of Public Instruction.

The amount that a school district received was based on how many students were attending their schools that were on free and reduced meals.

And so I use the example that Kindred is receiving fewer dollars than Warwick is, and the thought behind that as the federal government felt that Warwick school students, because of their socioeconomic status of most of those students, needed more federal funding to assist them through COVID than a Kindred school would.

- Okay, so we're almost out of time, but hopefully this fall we'll be back to a closer normal than we are right now.

But if people want more information, where can they go?

Who can they contact?

- So please, we have a wealth of information dedicated to the pandemic, dedicated to everything that we've talked about today at our website, and it's nd.gov/dpi.

- Well, thank you for all you do for North Dakota and our education system, and thanks for joining us today.

- Thank you, John.

- Stay tuned for more.

(upbeat music) Robb Justice and his band perform a mix of Americana and old country music.

The lyrics are often stories from his personal experiences, put to music.

("Live My Life") ♪ I was born in the USA ♪ ♪ Around the 4th of July ♪ ♪ I never thought for a second that I'd make it 25 ♪ ♪ I hit the road and found myself different points of view ♪ ♪ And now I'm back where I started ♪ ♪ And I tell you what I wanna do ♪ ♪ I wanna live my life, love my life ♪ ♪ Raise my kids, do what's right ♪ ♪ Take 'em to the ocean ♪ ♪ Teach 'em 'bout the motion of the tides ♪ ♪ I wanna climb this mountain until I reach the sky ♪ ♪ Spent lots of time in different towns ♪ ♪ I found we're all the same ♪ ♪ Different folks tellin' the same old jokes ♪ ♪ Wearing different names ♪ ♪ You see I'm older now and bolder now ♪ ♪ Than when I wore the younger shoe ♪ ♪ I've paid some dues so I can sing the blues ♪ ♪ Tell what I'm gonna do ♪ ♪ I'm gonna live my life, love my wife ♪ ♪ Raise my kids, do what's right ♪ ♪ Take 'em to the ocean ♪ ♪ Teach 'em 'bout the motion of the tides ♪ ♪ I'm gonna climb this mountain until I reach the sky ♪ ♪ High, high ♪ ♪ Gonna live my life, love my wife ♪ ♪ Raise my kids, do what's right ♪ ♪ Take 'em to the ocean ♪ ♪ Teach 'em 'bout the motion of the tide ♪ ♪ I'm gonna climb this mountain until I reach the sky ♪ ♪ Oh, I'm gonna live my life, love my wife ♪ ♪ I'm gonna raise my kids, I'm gonna do what's right ♪ ♪ Take 'em to the ocean ♪ ♪ Teach 'em 'bout the motion of the tides ♪ ♪ I'm gonna climb this mountain until I reach the sky ♪ ♪ Oh, I'm gonna climb this mountain until I reach the sky ♪ - Well, that's all we have on "Prairie Pulse" this week, and as always, thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Funded by the Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008, and by the members of Prairie Public.