(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to "Prairie Pulse".

Coming up a little bit later in the show, we'll hear music from Hannah Lou Woods.

But first, our guest joining me now is Dr. Larry Napoleon Jr. the NDSU School of Education Professor.

Dr. Napoleon, thanks for joining us today.

- Thank you very much for having me.

- Well, you're here today to talk about Black History Month but before we do that, tell the folks a little bit about yourself and maybe your background.

- Yeah, so my background, I would say personally, I'm a a proud native son of New Orleans, Louisiana.

Son of a hardworking blue collar dad, and a devoted, loving mother and a nurturing older sister.

And I think that those things were very important to shaping me.

Academically, I am a graduate of two HBCUs in New Orleans, Dillard University, where I have a a bachelor's degree in history, Xavier University where I have a master's degree in curriculum and instruction.

Taught in the New Orleans Public School system for five years before moving to Pennsylvania where I earned a doctorate degree in curriculum and instruction from Penn State University.

Following that fate led me here to NDSU in Fargo and I've been here for 14 years now.

- Okay, well, 14 years.

Let's turn to what you do and things you've done.

I understand you've organized and moderated a number of panels in our area dealing with race issues.

Can you talk about some of that?

- Yeah, so I've, I think, I would say I've organized a few, I've been a part of many, right?

So whether that be through campus, lots of different initiatives that focus on on black history or racism, things of that nature.

And then I've had the esteemed honor of speaking at Juneteenth events for the past couple years.

I've spoken at the Fargo Film Festival, and it's just been a wonderful opportunity to to be here and to offer my insight and talent as in regards to an issue that is definitely one that's plagued us in our society historically and in a contemporary sense.

- Yeah, absolutely.

But you're here today to talk a little bit about Black History Month.

- Yep.

- So can you say, you know, what is it and how and when was it founded?

Tell us about it.

- Yeah, so Black History Month, which has its roots, well, first of all, that's, I'll honor the the father of Black History Month, and that's Dr. Carter G. Woodson.

So, Dr. Woodson was an author, journalist, but most notably and perhaps most importantly, he was a historian.

He was completely dedicated to researching, promoting, and disseminating information regarding the achievements and contributions of African-Americans, right?

1915, Dr. Carter co-founded an organization that really poured resources into that effort conducting research on all the contributions and achievements of African-Americans.

I believe about 11 years later, it was 1926, was the first what was called then, Negro History Week.

And he chose the second week of February because that week aligned with the birthdays of Abraham Lincoln and the great Frederick Douglass.

Abraham Lincoln's birthday is February 12th.

Fredrick Douglass' birthday is February 14th, or his adopted birthday.

He didn't know his exact birthday but he adopted February 14th because his mother called him her little Valentine.

So because of that, in honoring those people, the second week of February was chosen for Negro History Week.

That went on until, gosh, about five decades, roughly.

And in 1970, an initiative to expand Negro History Week to Black History Month was pushed forth.

And about six years later was the first time Black History Month was acknowledged by sitting president.

And so it's been since '76 that we have a formally recognized Black History Month in the United States.

- All right, sir.

Yeah, is there a theme this year?

I understand there seems to be a theme every year.

- Yes, there's a theme every year.

This year's theme is black resistance.

- And what does that mean?

What will happen with that theme, do you think?

- Yeah, so I think with black resistance, there is an an honoring there in the historical tradition of of African-American struggle, right?

Since 1619, right when slaves began to arrive on, the shore of Africans began to arrive on the shores of the United States, and even actually before then, right?

Even boarding those vessels over here there was always resistance, right?

There's been resistance at every level of life.

And, every decade, every iteration of the black struggle here in the United States, resistance has been central to our progress and to our thriving.

So I think it's, you couldn't find a more fitting theme than black resistance, because even as we sit here now in 2023, resistance is still very much a part of our stories and a part of our daily lives.

- I believe you're right.

How many countries observe Black History Month?

- Yeah, so while I don't know exactly how many, I know for certain, I can think of roughly up to a dozen different countries that celebrate either Black History Month or some would celebrate what's called a Black History Day, right?

But countries as as diverse as United Kingdom, Ireland, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands, Brazil, right?

So it's a pretty diverse set of of countries that celebrate Black History Month.

- [John] Yeah, and did it start with the United States, or do you know?

- Yes, yeah, it did.

So basically the, all these other iterations of Black History Month are all descendants of the brainchild and the hard work of Dr. Carter G. Woodson.

And it is not uncommon, right?

That if you have a group of people anywhere who feel like they're not being represented, not being acknowledged and you get a representation, or you get an example of another set of people who have made that cause a reality, you think, you know what?

We need to get some of that going over here as well.

So these other Black History Month celebrations have all I would say, go back to maybe starting in the eighties, and then there are some as recent as about five years ago or so, right?

So again, this goes back to the work of Carter G. Woodson back to 1926.

Then that being broadened out in 1976 and about a decade or so later, you start to see black folks in other countries, you know, saying, hey, we've made contributions here as well and they should be acknowledged because oftentimes they're not acknowledged in the traditional curriculum in schools and acknowledged in society in general.

So we need to bring that to the fore.

- So is there a website folks can learn all about the activities going on nationally during Black History Month?

- Yeah, so I don't know if there is, is one repository, if you will, but the beautiful thing about 2023 is that you can just go to a search engine type in Black History Month events, and you'll find an array of websites that'll give you information about events here and there.

- So how about in Fargo-Moorhead area, and can you talk about the observances and maybe different programs that are planned that you know of?

- Yeah, so locally, I think one place to check would be I think it's called fargoevents.com and it'll give you a rundown on all local events there.

If you're speaking about NDSU specifically, there, you can go to the website of the Office of Multicultural Programs.

And there is, currently, it's uploaded a listing of all the events that are happening at NDSU.

And there are, there are several.

- Can you talk about any of those observances that you might be involved in or that you know of?

- So one that's, that's very that's been a really great event.

I think if I were to go back in my mind, I would imagine this event has been happening now for at least close to a decade now, I think.

It's called Afrique and it is sponsored by the Black Student Association at NDSU and it is a great celebration of black history across the entire diaspora.

It's put on by the students.

They run it, they perform, songs, poetry, speeches.

It's a really wonderful event.

And that's, I think that's one of my my favorite events that happens at at NDSU, Afrique.

- Okay, what are your thoughts about race relations in Fargo-Moorhead, and for that matter, in North Dakota?

You've been here 14 years now.

- Yeah, I've been here 14 years.

So it's interesting you mentioned that because within that 14 years, it's given me the opportunity to really watch a city and a community grow.

If I were to think back to when we first moved here again, 2009, I don't think there was lots, like, lots of diversity represented in the community.

And one of the places I got to really watch this happen was in the schools.

I spent lots of time out in the schools in Fargo, West Fargo, and to a lesser degree, Moorhead.

But I could even speak to this as a parent, when my oldest son, who is 17 years old now and he is a junior in high school when he began kindergarten, I remember in his class he was one of two, if I'm not mistaken, two black kids, and that was it, right?

The schools were not very diverse then.

Fast forward just a couple of years and if you want to see the, like the influx of diversity in Fargo, spend some time looking at the schools and you can see it like, plain as day, right?

So the influx of diversity is happening.

With regard to how all that's working out in the community, I think I'd say a couple things.

First of all, I'd say in my experience, I can only speak to my personal experience.

In my experience, Fargo has been a welcoming place but to determine how truly inclusive the community will be I think there's a to be determined there.

And what I mean by that is we now have, through these kids who have moved here with parents and they're flooding the school systems, in about a decade or so these kids are now gonna be adults, right?

How welcomed are they going to be in the workplace, right?

Is there going to be a diverse representation of individuals in Fargo's community across the workforce?

Right, and that would be for me, a great telltale sign about just how quote unquote race relations have have developed in Fargo.

- I understand you've talked a lot about maybe affirmative action in the past.

- [Larry] Yeah.

- And the Supreme Court might be taking a look at that.

Can can you talk about, you know, what is affirmative action and why was it first implemented?

- Yeah, so.

- [John] Give a little bit of background on it.

- Yeah, so affirmative action has its roots in federal policy.

In fact, the first time the term affirmative action was used I believe would be 1961 in an executive order from John F. Kennedy where he spoke about using affirmative action in making sure hiring practices were non-discriminatory, and that people would not be boxed out of opportunities based upon the language, I believe, was race, creed, color, or national origin.

All right?

Fast forward a couple years, I believe 1965 and Lyndon B. Johnson initiated another executive order and I believe, religion and sex was added, and then genders followed soon thereafter in about 1968.

So those are the roots of affirmative action.

And the idea again, was simply to try to ensure that hiring practices were non-discriminatory in our society.

- What would be the consequences if the Supreme Court overturned the premise of affirmative action?

- Yeah, that's an interesting question.

And I think, sadly, one of the impacts may be less, with regard to what they're looking at, right?

And they're looking at at affirmative action as a consideration for higher education admissions, specifically.

And I think one of the potential impacts could be a less diverse school population in higher education, which would be unfortunate.

- Yeah, this is maybe a tough question here.

What do you, what do you think's been learned since George Floyd's death in 2020?

And you look at what's going on in Memphis right now.

- [Larry] Yeah.

- And in terms of how, you know, things are changing in the United States.

- Yeah, you know, sadly, I think exactly what's happening right now in Memphis calls into question what we've learned, if anything, right?

You know, if we were to contextualize this and look at this specific issue of police brutality and as it relates to African-Americans, this is nothing new.

So we're looking at circumstance in Memphis, Tennessee, where a man was brutally beaten to death.

But you started the question with George Floyd, which was 2000... - 20.

- 20, and I could rattle off name after name, after name, right?

If I were to go back 30 years or so and we could talk about Rodney King or, right?

So, and if I would've fast forward to the seventies I'm pretty sure if I would've talked to my elders they would rattle off names then.

So this is a deeply rooted issue in our country.

And the truth, the sad truth of the matter is I'm not sure what we've learned if anything, because it continues to repeat itself over and over and over again.

- Hmm, what would Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, think about today if they were still alive?

- Yeah, so, gosh, that's a heavy weight to assume the thoughts and position that MLK and Malcolm X would have.

But I would say this, based upon their work, I would, there are a couple different perspectives here.

In one light, I think they would be, they might be encouraged by some of the the progress that has been made within the African-American experience.

But I would also say that largely they would be disappointed.

And I'm sure frustrated by the fact that some of the issues, many of the issues, quite frankly, that they were dealing with in 1950, 1960, 19, well, they were both killed before 1970, but the issues that they died still wrestling with, we're still dealing with those things now.

So, but I think they would be encouraged by the resilience that African-Americans and other Americans of good faith are showing.

There would absolutely be frustration and disappointment there as well.

- Real quick, what would you want folks to know about Black History Month they might not know?

- I think what I would like people to know is, to to paraphrase Dr. Carter G. Woodson, he said, "The emphasis should not be on Negro History Week, "but on negros in history."

In other words, this is just a part of the historical narrative of this society, right?

And while we have this moment to highlight those contributions, there should really be a push and an emphasis to be inclusive of the contributions and achievements of African-Americans in the larger American historical narrative.

- So if people want more information maybe you've already suggested, what's the best, where's the best place to go?

- Yeah, so in 2023, the best place to go is pull out your phone, get on that laptop, and you can, we can easily do research all of us from anywhere at any time.

And that's the beauty of 2023.

- All right.

Well, thanks for joining us today.

- [Larry] Thank you very much for having me.

- Stay tuned for more.

(upbeat music) Hannah Lou Woods is a singer and songwriter from Rochester, Minnesota, who constructs heartfelt lyrics and melodies to reflect her own personal journey.

She received numerous awards for her folksy, bluesy pop songs and was featured on our series "Prairie Musicians."

(acoustic guitar music) ♪ I've been afraid to speak my truth ♪ ♪ That I've been tongue tied up all night ♪ ♪ Waiting for a love like you ♪ ♪ And though I've tried to let love grow ♪ ♪ It's hard to show you how I feel, yeah ♪ ♪ That's why I wanna be loved by you ♪ ♪ I wanna be held right through ♪ ♪ Oh, darling, all the things that we could do, yeah ♪ ♪ I wanna be ♪ ♪ Would you wanna be loved by me too ♪ ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ ♪ Well, I've been trying ♪ ♪ Trying to speak that truth ♪ ♪ That I've been holding and waiting ♪ ♪ Ready for a love like you ♪ ♪ And though I've tried, yes ♪ ♪ So many times before ♪ ♪ They always wanted more than I could give, yes ♪ ♪ That's why I wanna be loved by you ♪ ♪ I wanna be held right through ♪ ♪ Oh darling, the things that we could do, yeah ♪ ♪ I wanna be, would you wanna be loved by me too ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, yeah ♪ ♪ Oh, yes ♪ ♪ Oh, yes ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ ♪ Wouldn't it be great to be loved ♪ ♪ We could rise above like a white dove ♪ ♪ Always dreaming of ♪ ♪ I wanna love you to the break of dawn ♪ ♪ When the light turns on ♪ ♪ And the silence turns into the song ♪ ♪ Wouldn't it be great to be loved ♪ ♪ We could rise above ♪ ♪ Like a white dove I'm dreaming of ♪ ♪ I wanna love you to the break of dawn ♪ ♪ 'Til the light turns on and the silence turns into a song ♪ ♪ Oh, yes ♪ ♪ I wanna let go, let go, yeah ♪ ♪ Let go, let go, let go, let go, let go, yeah ♪ ♪ Let go, let go, let it go ♪ ♪ I wanna be loved by you ♪ ♪ Held right through ♪ ♪ The things that we could do ♪ ♪ I wanna be, would you wanna be loved by me too ♪ ♪ Would you wanna be loved ♪ ♪ I wanna let go, let go, yeah ♪ ♪ Let go, let go, let go ♪ (acoustic guitar music) ♪ Because I believe in love like that ♪ ♪ I believe in love that lasts ♪ ♪ Beyond the confines of time and space ♪ ♪ I believe I have known your face ♪ ♪ So how can a heart forget her past ♪ ♪ I believe in love that lasts ♪ ♪ Beyond the confines of time and space ♪ ♪ I believe in resting place ♪ ♪ Whoa ♪ ♪ Breathe in love ♪ ♪ Let your heart be big enough ♪ ♪ Breathe in love ♪ ♪ Oh, let your heart be big enough ♪ ♪ Yeah, oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ Oh, oh, oh ♪ ♪ Breathe in love ♪ ♪ Let your heart be big enough ♪ ♪ Breathe it all, breathe it all ♪ ♪ Breathe in love, breathe in joy ♪ ♪ Breathe in peace, breathe it all ♪ ♪ Whatever it is you need ♪ ♪ Just breathe ♪ ♪ Breathe love ♪ ♪ Oh, let your heart be big enough ♪ - Well, that's all we have on "Prairie Pulse" this week.

And as always, thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Funded by the Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008, and by the members of Prairie Public.