(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to Prairie Pulse.

Coming up a little bit later in the show, we'll hear music from Minneapolis duo, Beyond the Trees.

But first, joining me now is our guest, Erica Thunder the new Director of Diversity and Cultural Competency of the North Dakota Department of Corrections.

Erica, thanks for joining us today.

- Thank you so much, and thank you for having me.

- As we get started, we always do, tell the folks a little bit about yourself and maybe your background.

- Sure, well, my background is that I'm a North Dakota girl, born and bred.

I'm originally from Bottineau in the Turtle Mountains area.

I grew up there, did K through 12 at Bottineau.

Both of my parents were educated as educators but my dad went into farming and was a farmer for as long as he lived in my life.

He passed away when I was 16 and my mom was a music teacher all around the Turtle Mountains, and so we had a lot of music in our life and my dad was a big sportsman, so we had all sorts of things that we got to enjoy growing up.

I have an older brother and he went to UND and so I followed him to UND.

And so I did all four years there for my undergrad.

Graduated with a degree in Political Science and then graduated at 21 and went directly into law school after that and graduated with my Juris Doctorate and my Indian Law Certificate, which sometimes there's misnomers with the certificate part.

It really was kind of like a double major and being able to specialize specifically in Indian Law which I mean really is a complex area of law that interfaces with all other areas of law which is jurisdictional complexity is added to it.

And a little bit more about my background I met my husband while I was at UND.

He's a citizen of the Ho-Chunk Nation of Wisconsin.

And that comes into play in my life as well because I, when I graduated from law school, I went to work for my tribe, MHA Nation.

I'm a proud enrolled citizen there.

I'm a Arikara Hidatsa.

My family is originally from Elbowoods which isn't really a town anymore.

It's under Lake Sakakawea.

But I was really proud to be able to go back and serve my nation as a staff attorney.

And then I went on to serve my husband's nation, the Ho-Chunk Nation as a staff attorney as well.

And since 2016, I've been in the state of North Dakota working for state government in a number of different roles.

- Well, and we're here today to talk about the newest one I guess you've got, what is the new position that you're in and why was it created?

- Yeah, so I serve as, I guess the first Director of Diversity and Cultural Competency for North Dakota Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

And I'm still relatively new like we talked about a little bit.

I'm going on my fourth month.

But I look back kind of at my whole professional career and even before that, my education and the things that I was very interested in was very much on criminal justice reform and prison reform and being able to kind of see these gaps that we had specifically with tribal communities, but for folks overall that were underrepresented.

And how this position came about really was, I think a long time coming.

A lot of conversations that happened over a number of years where maybe we didn't even realize that this would turn into a position.

And I approached Director Dave Krabbenhoft, the Director for Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, and kind of had a little bit of what the position could look like.

Not even thinking necessarily, oh this is a position that I can hold but rather this is something that I think we can do.

And he was like, yeah, we can.

And so after conversations, of course with Governor and his team and Dave and going through the interview process, 'cause I had to go through the interview process just like anyone else, got to the other side and was offered the position and we all agreed that it was a really beautiful way to be able to combine the work that I had done as a Commissioner of Labor and Human Rights, the work that I had done on behalf of Indian Country and serving with, you know North Dakota Indian Affairs Commission and serving multiple tribes, and combining that all into something that really could push forward one of Governor's five initiatives, tribal partnerships in the best way possible and interweaving it as well with some of the other initiatives that he is has been focusing on as well.

Behavioral health, things like that.

- So you did say, it sounds like you and the governor did talk about this job on how you see it and how he sees it.

Were you able to come together on that?

- Yeah, I was really, have been very blessed to have a really good relationship with Governor Burgum.

And it really was, you know, after everything after I interviewed and accepted the position and everything else that like, we finally were able to just kind of exchange, you know, some thoughts and ideas.

And I think some of those even came out of interestingly enough, maybe even my resignation letter which usually is kind of more of a sad type of thing.

But it was a bittersweet thing.

It was reflecting on all these wonderful things that had happened throughout the years and then, you know really being able to say, I'm so thankful that this is an opportunity that I'll be able to have now for the future.

And it's not really even about me in the end.

This is such a bigger picture than me.

And he, you know, Governor's mind is just like always going a thousand miles a minute, and he's like 20 steps ahead.

(laughs) And so yeah, he just had a lot to input and he was very encouraging and he really encouraged Director Dave Krabbenhoft as well.

And so it felt good to have all of that.

And it felt good because Dave and I, Director Krabbenhoft and I had been good friends when we were on the cabinet together, so it was really nice like to be able to work for someone that I considered a friend and a mentor and someone I really looked to - Well, so what are or what will be, as your four months, maybe you hadn't got all this going, your day-to-day activities and what plans and programs are you gonna implement?

- Yeah, so I think that, you know, the list is probably never complete, to just put it really simply, but really where I'm starting from because we've been able to complete a full, you know like strategic planning of this and really try to put in paper what we're trying to do now.

But the biggest part of what I'm doing at this point on a day-to-day basis is really trying to work with, especially, you know Tribal Nations and to understand, you know, these huge gaps that we have between jurisdictions, whether it be in parole and probation, whether it be in safe transports.

And we're working now on being able to sign off on MOUs, Memorandums of Understanding, between the Tribal Nations and the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation on being able to do essentially cross jurisdictional services, you know for those who might be in in jail or in their correctional facilities on the Tribal Nations.

So we're starting with a lot of that work, but I've gone in specifically within all of the facilities of DOCR and really tried to be able to understand the populations and what, you know, the folks who are working for DOCR, the boots on the ground, what they're seeing, you know, the things that they've asked for, like, education and being able to understand cultural identities a lot better and things like that.

And also just being able to provide cultural services.

I went in with the women's facility at the Heart River Correctional Center in Mandan and did some smudging ceremonies with the females there.

And that was one of the most beautiful things that I've been able to be a part of.

So, it's been really, we're off to the races and it's been extremely fulfilling.

- Yeah, you've talked around it, I think, but what is cultural competency?

- Yeah, really, really simply, cultural competency is just the ability to engage and communicate, interact, listen probably more than anything, consult and really be able to ask questions of those that come from diverse backgrounds and be able to understand what are the needs, what are the barriers?

You know, we often can reflect on things like how, you know, we should maybe throw the book at certain people and things like that.

But there's a story behind a lot of these folks where you know, whether they started out in boarding schools or lived a life of a lot of abuse growing up.

I mean, there's a lot of folks that I've met that were institutionalized at a very young age that I don't think ever really got to speak about that and what that was like and I think that, you know, a lot of the muscles that we have as human beings about how we're able to live healthy, safe lives, that can atrophy when you're in an institution after a while.

And so, cultural competency really is just the ability to understand those things.

'Cause I can't put myself in every other culture's shoes but I can look through their lens and I can, you know offer that for them as well.

So I'm really kind of a liaison in that role too.

- Can you talk a little bit about the systemic issues that lead to Native Americans and minorities to occupy sort of a higher percentage of incarceration than non-minorities?

- Yeah, I think that there's so many different things that we could talk about here, but I think just some of the most basic are just that, are basic needs, you know, not being able to be met.

I'm very proud that North Dakota has such a low unemployment rate.

I mean, we're absolutely doing tremendous there but when we look at Tribal Nations and the lands that they occupy specifically the Tribal Nations that share geography with North Dakota, their reservation lands, poverty is through the roof and unemployment is, you know, 50% or higher at times.

So there just aren't enough opportunities really even for those of indigenous backgrounds to be able to succeed.

And when we don't have those things, we'll resort to anything to make sure that we can survive.

- Of course, solving these issues would be a big task.

How do you plan to address this at all?

- I think that there's a lot, and I think, I really believe that that cultural competency piece is so incredibly important.

And I hope, I've always said the same thing to the folks at DOCR and anyone outside of DOCR as well, use me however as needed.

You know, I've seen so many breakdowns in communication between the various jurisdictions and I often say this.

You know, there was a relationship that was established between the US Federal Government and Tribal Nations.

This trust responsibility that's been written, you know in all sorts of our laws and everything else.

But we need to be able to give ourselves a lot of grace as a state.

There was never a relationship or how the relationship should exist between state and sovereign Tribal Nations.

So I think that there's, you know a lot of work that just includes true consultation meeting Tribal Nations where they're at and going directly where they are and being able to understand, you know, what are some of their biggest challenges?

Because MHA Nation will be different than Turtle Mountain and it'll be different than Spirit Lake, et cetera.

And really being able to, I would say, create multidisciplinary type of teams and a holistic wraparound approach with folks who have been incarcerated, you know and starting at a very young age as well with prevention too, and education and things like that.

I think my greatest hope is having a combination of all of that and, you know, again, really utilizing our understanding of others to hopefully be able to meet the needs and do it in a way that is cost-effective for everyone, especially the taxpayer.

- So yeah, the goals of rehabilitation and making sure some of these inmates don't reoffend or end up back in the prison system.

- [Erica] Yeah.

- Is that part of your?

- Yeah, very much so.

There's so many different statistics out there but a big goal of DOCR is, you know and a big part of our mission is being able to ensure that the 95% of folks who have been incarcerated who reenter the world will be able to be great neighbors and will be able to be safe neighbors and people who can contribute and have the resources that they need that they can, you know, assist their families even, I mean just like the bare minimum of things.

So yeah, there's so much really to that but I really hope that with some of the education that we're doing internally within, you know, the walls of the facilities, that, like I said before, these muscles that we have on the outside of the walls don't atrophy while being within.

And hopefully there are folks that will take, you know full advantage of the education that they can receive within DOCR and then within our facilities, and especially places like Rough Rider Industries that is just doing amazing work in being able to really make placements, you know, of folks after they're finished with their sentences.

- Well, it sounds like you have a passion for your job, but how has the job gone so far?

Or are you just getting your feet wet?

- I would say, all of the above again.

I'm always gonna be passionate about whatever it is that I'm in.

I can't work without passion no matter if I'm serving the Department of Labor and Human Rights or the Indian Affairs Commission or whatever it may be.

And this is certainly very much close to my heart but I'm still getting my feet wet as well.

There's a lot for me to learn.

And we've got so many great partners at DOCR from around the United States and around the world as well.

You know, we've really tapped into a lot of the Scandinavian templates of how they're utilizing different resources for their own prison reform and criminal justice reform efforts.

And it's super exciting for me.

And so, I'm just excited to learn more.

- Yeah, well, you know, you were Labor Commissioner and worked with the North Dakota Indian Affairs Commission.

You know, how do those jobs relate to this job?

- I think if it was a beautiful marriage of both of those things, I still serve as an at large appointed commissioner to the North Dakota Indian Affairs Commission itself which Governor serves as the chairman of and the five Tribal Nations chairs serve as commissioners.

And there's three at large appointed members and one of those three, we meet quarterly.

So it helps me still have a very direct pulse on where Tribal Nations are going, what they're needing, and also just like the amazing things that, you know they continue to accomplish and do.

And it allows for a really good chance to have very honest and open conversations on the things that we all face in our roles as leaders.

And I can't say enough about Labor and Human Rights.

I feel like I had kind of as a maybe third, I guess education there (laughs) outside of my undergrad and my doctorate in learning so much about our protected classes and protected activities in North Dakota, and especially probably on, you know of course waging our issues, but certainly on the human rights side of things.

And yeah, I've been able to combine all of it for this, because I should say too, I'm really focusing today's conversation on tribal citizens and Tribal Nations, but I'm serving people of, you know all backgrounds, you know, folks who are disabled, folks of all races and everything else.

- Well, unfortunately we are out of time.

Erica, if people want more information, where can they go?

- Reach out to North Dakota Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

Kayli Richards is our Public Information Officer.

She can handle whatever it is.

- All right, well thank you so much for joining us today.

- Thank you for having me, please.

- Stay tuned for more.

(upbeat music) Beyond the Trees is an acoustic duo from Minneapolis who strives to blend an urban-feeling beat with a walk in the woods.

They travel the state with a passion to perform their own style of bluegrass folk music.

♪ Just another gloomy Monday ♪ ♪ You know I don't want to clock in ♪ ♪ I'd rather be making my way up to the shore ♪ ♪ I always do my best and make them checks ♪ ♪ While working for the man ♪ ♪ But it doesn't make me happy like the north ♪ ♪ With this tree so tall at the basin in eyeline ♪ ♪ You know it's hard to remember what you forget ♪ ♪ Calming waves come crashing on the shoreline ♪ ♪ Can't ever wonder why I ever left a place ♪ ♪ Where I'm the happiest ♪ ♪ Oh I can spend all of my days up there ♪ ♪ And I could live a life so simple and fair ♪ ♪ And I could be so free ♪ ♪ This I could ♪ ♪ Oooh ♪ ♪ Why do we wish for?

♪ ♪ I wish for happiness ♪ ♪ Oooh ♪ ♪ Instead of diving in ♪ ♪ Diving in the bliss ♪ ♪ Oooh ♪ ♪ I don't want no troubles no more ♪ ♪ I don't want no struggles no more ♪ ♪ Oo-oo-oo-ooh ♪ ♪ Oo-oo-oo-ooh ♪ ♪ Throw away all of my worries ♪ ♪ With every rock I skip ♪ ♪ Across the lake that looks just like the sea ♪ ♪ And like the Edmund Fitzgerald ♪ ♪ Oh that brave little ship ♪ ♪ All my worries could be but a memory ♪ ♪ Lessons learned as I go through this life of mine ♪ ♪ You know I just tell it exactly like I see ♪ ♪ And like an age old story ♪ ♪ Just give me my time ♪ ♪ I'll learn my worth and then I'll be set free ♪ ♪ Oh I can spend all of my days up there ♪ ♪ And I could live a life so simple and fair ♪ ♪ And I could be so free ♪ ♪ This I could ♪ ♪ Oooh ♪ ♪ Why do we wish for?

♪ ♪ I wish for happiness ♪ ♪ Oooh ♪ ♪ Instead of diving in ♪ ♪ Diving in your bliss ♪ ♪ Oooh ♪ ♪ I don't want no troubles no more ♪ ♪ I don't want no struggles no more ♪ ♪ Oo-oo-oo-ooh ♪ ♪ Oo-oo-oo-ooh ♪ ♪ Oo-oo-oo-ooh ♪ ♪ Oo-oo-oo-ooh ♪ ♪ Oh every time I look at you ♪ ♪ I lose myself inside your eyes ♪ ♪ And I'm as happy as can be ♪ ♪ You're rising like the ocean blue ♪ ♪ And with you I want to spend my life ♪ ♪ And I'm so glad that you agree ♪ ♪ Whoa darling darling come with me ♪ ♪ There's a whole big world for us to see ♪ ♪ Just take my hand and soon we can be ♪ ♪ A rolling stone family ♪ ♪ It's you and I along the road ♪ ♪ Flowing like the ocean tide ♪ ♪ And we're living young wild and free ♪ ♪ There ain't no telling where we'll go ♪ ♪ The valley or the mountain high up ♪ ♪ Let's indulge in our new journey ♪ ♪ Whoa darling darling come with me ♪ ♪ There's a whole big world for us to see ♪ ♪ Just take my hand and soon we can be ♪ ♪ A rolling stone family ♪ ♪ Whoa darling darling come with me ♪ ♪ There's a whole big world for us to see ♪ ♪ Just take my hand and soon we can be ♪ ♪ A rolling stone family ♪ ♪ Whoa darling darling come with me ♪ ♪ There's a whole big world for us to see ♪ ♪ Just take my hand and soon we can be ♪ ♪ A rolling stone family ♪ ♪ A rolling stone family ♪ - Well, that's all we have on Prairie Pulse this week.

And as always, thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Funded by the Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008.

And by the members of Prairie Public.