(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to "Prairie Pulse."

Coming up a little bit later in the show, we'll meet Clitherall, Minnesota glassware artist, John Olesen.

But first, our guest today is Erin Hemme Froslie, Concordia College English instructor and, of course, advisor to the Concordian.

Thanks for joining us today, Erin.

- It's great to be here, John.

- Well, as we get started, tell the folks a little bit about yourself and your background.

- Okay, so I currently teach English, mostly journalism courses, at Concordia College.

Prior to this, I spent about 13 years in daily journalism, and then also did some communications marketing work.

But really found a love back to the journalism world here in the last few years.

And now I'm trying to teach the next generation how to recognize good news and create it as well.

- Okay.

Expand on, yeah, what is exactly, exactly the classes you teach at Concordia?

- So I do news writing, feature writing, advanced reporting in addition to some freshman comp, freshman writing courses.

And then I also teach a first year seminar, which is designed to introduce our students to the liberal arts education and to introduce them to college.

And that is focused on fake news.

- Okay.

Well, well, so you're here today, obviously, to talk about online news and social media culture.

Kind of a huge topic out there.

Been a huge topic for a long time.

Give us an overview about, you know, what you study and, of course, teach in relation to social media.

- Right, so I look at social media as a platform that delivers information and news.

So as I work with students, I really treat it as a place where they can go to learn about their world.

And it's a tool and a way for them to interact with other people.

And so we really look at it from a how do we use it effectively to get our messages across?

And also looking at how people are responding to what they find in their own news feeds and their own social media pages.

- Mm-hm.

Well, okay, there's a whole lot here to talk about, I guess.

When you say social media though, what resonates, what do you mean by social media?

- Yeah, that's a big word, right?

And when we talk about social media, it's these platforms where you can post information and also get to know a community or another audience.

And so some of the major places, when we talk about social media, you know, we all know about Facebook, we know about X, which used to be Twitter, Instagram, TikTok.

These are all places where you have an account, and you can share your thoughts and opinions.

You can share news stories or things you find, but you can also meet people there.

And that's where that social aspect comes from.

It's a place, it's a way for you to interact with other people and their ideas.

- Okay, well, you mentioned Facebook, of course, Meta.

- [Erin] Correct.

- I wanna talk about Facebook for a minute.

It dropped the fact checkers, dropping fact checkers.

What has been the response thus far, and do you think it was a good idea or not?

- Yeah, that's a very complicated one.

So for the longest time, Facebook or Meta has hired third-party vendors, you know, professionals who know how to fact check.

And they were going through pages and then deciding some content needed to go or needed to be flagged.

And they did this for many, many years, and I think it was January, Mark Zuckerberg said, "I'm sorry, we're stepping away from that.

We're dropping those contracts, and we're gonna move to this crowdsourcing model where users on the platform can add a community note or something like that to the post.

But we're not going to professionally be held responsible for that."

And lots of uproar, especially from those who are fact-checkers.

(laughs) First of all, just feeling like it becomes a free for all.

And there are some concerns in, as we're moving into this world where anybody can post anything.

And we're also, it's not always humans or people that we know.

I mean, you can have people from outside the United States posting fake profiles and posting information that is not true.

Trolls, bots, which is more of the technical aspect of that.

And all of a sudden, those become viral and can become very, very quick to pass along that information.

And so that I think is one of the concerns is, is this going to give that misinformation too much leverage without kind of a stop sign?

- Yeah, you know, some would argue that the internet should be just a free-flowing exchange of ideas and opinions, and perhaps individuals should be sort of responsible for their own fact checking.

What do you say to that?

- I understand where that sentimentality is coming from, and I truly do believe that, I mean, that is one of the beautiful things about the internet, is that I don't need to own a newspaper.

I don't need to own a TV station to share my message, right?

And there's something very community-based about that.

But I think what happens is if there aren't checks and balances, it can get unwieldy.

And if we're all responsible for our own fact checking, that puts a lot of pressure on the user.

And I know how I use social media, it's very quick.

I make snap judgements, and I know this is how my students use it too.

And we don't all wanna take the time every single time we see something to double check.

Is it being posted by a real person?

Does that person actually have the qualifications they say they have?

And is the information they're sharing actually accurate?

And who says it's accurate?

I mean, those are a lot of steps.

And that is what we should all be doing, frankly.

But in the practical aspect, I think that puts a lot of pressure on users.

- Has AI had any impact on social media?

- Oh my goodness.

AI is, the gates have opened, and there's a couple different ways it's playing, but one is in the content creation.

It is getting harder to know what is real and what is not on the internet in general and social media.

So it's really easy to, you know, generate copy or generate an image, or even generate videos.

And so it used to be, well, if you see it, you can believe it.

And now we're in a place where that's not necessarily true.

And you have like legacy media organizations like the New York Times, who sometimes when they'll show a video from a recent news event, they'll include a disclaimer, you know, we've checked to make sure this is real.

And you don't necessarily get that everywhere on social media.

And so AI is this growing area, and we step cautiously into that world.

- Okay.

Well, all right, I wanna talk a bit about seminar, first year seminar you teach.

It's called Shades of Truth, How Media Shapes Our Stories.

Can you talk a little bit about that and what you're trying to get across when you do that seminar?

- Yeah, so I created this seminar shortly after the 2016 election, and I really, we started hearing these phrases like fake news.

You know, clickbait became part of our conversations, and I was just became interested in, you know, why do people believe it's fake news, and how is this gaining traction, right?

So I started reading about it and thought, this is a really an interesting place for students.

My students, you know, have grown up with social media.

They've grown up with the internet.

When I learned how to read news, I learned from a newspaper, right?

And there are certain visual cues.

Front page stories are important.

You put some emphasis there.

Opinions are run on the editorial page, which is inside the newspaper, right?

You know, this is familiar.

Same with the TV broadcast.

There were certain things like you knew what was important, and the opinion pieces are at the end.

My students are living in a world where everything has equal meaning.

So as they're getting things on their newsfeed, you know, there's opinion, there's fact, there's news, there's sponsorships and ads.

And so I wanted to create a space where we could talk about all of those, and so they could start to understand the differences between those types of information and content.

And then also start learning how to fact check on their own.

And so they would have some of those tools.

Then we also look at how misinformation and disinformation influences communities and how that makes a difference in the decisions we make.

And so it really brings out these fascinating conversations.

- Well, let's move on a little bit to misinformation online.

You know, misinformation's misinformation, but you know, how do you define it?

But you don't know when it's misinformation.

So how do you talk about misinformation online?

- You know, and that's really, we're in this like post-truth world where people are constantly asking, well, is it true or is it not?

And so first of all, there's a couple of vocabulary words.

So there's disinformation and misinformation.

Disinformation is a larger, like anytime something is unfactual.

So even if I make a mistake or print or produce something that was wrong, that falls under that category, right?

Misinformation is actually intentionally wrong.

And I think that intent really matters when somebody is really pushing a narrative or details or facts that they know is not true.

And there's usually a motivation there, right?

Money, power, just trying to create some chaos.

Those are all reasons people might do this.

And so when we look at misinformation, one of the things is, you know, learning how to fact check yourself.

There's tools like lateral reading where if I see it in my newsfeed, can I find it elsewhere on the internet or other people saying the same thing?

Checking the biographies of the people that are actually being quoted or who are posting.

'Cause there are a number of pages out there that are not, they're not even real people.

And yet we're giving them credence, and that's just not, not helpful.

- So, so how does misinformation affect people's understanding of the world for that matter or their community?

- Well, I think it affects the decisions we make.

So if you are told something like, you know, right now there's a lot of mistrust of government.

There's a lot of mistrust of institutions.

Well, if you are constantly told, you know what?

And I'm thinking of an incident out in North Carolina after the hurricane came through, and there was some political narratives that FEMA was actually not going to give people money, but they were gonna take your land and your home if you actually signed up for FEMA help and assistance.

So a lot of people in that region did not actually sign up for FEMA assistance.

That affects their ability to rebuild, their ability to step, step into recovery.

And so those are the kinds of things that become concerning, right?

We are in a good space where we should be able to trust the information out there.

And when we're given bad information, it's hard to make good decisions.

- Well, here's loaded question, I guess.

What's your view on social media as a whole?

Kind of what are the positives and the negatives of it?

'Cause there are some negatives, obviously, and I'm sure there are positives to it.

- There are great positives to it.

I mean, the whole idea of social.

I have met experts and people and interesting, people with interesting views because of social media.

I've been introduced to their ideas, and I've been able to interact with them.

And I think that is one of the beauties of social media.

I am able to stay connected with my family and friends in a way that I couldn't necessarily do in face-to-face, right?

And in that sense, social media is very powerful.

I think where it becomes problematic is when it's that intent.

You know, if I'm intending to use it for good, I think it's a good thing.

When intending to use it to create chaos or something else, then it becomes questionable because it is so, it's a bit addictive.

It's easy to get engaged in that content.

I mean, that's why we have that content there, is we want people to be engaged with it.

And so that can become problematic.

- Yeah.

We talked about Facebook, Meta a little earlier, but what role do you see it playing in today's world?

And of course, how has it changed?

- Yeah, I mean, it's there, and it's gonna be interesting.

We know that Facebook users are older.

We know younger generations are leaning towards other social media platforms.

And so, you know, the future of Meta, it's hard for me to predict.

I do know it will be interesting to watch over the next year how this whole lack of fact checking works, and also giving a little less emphasis to legacy media and things like that is another thing that's changing in their user policies.

And so how that algorithm works in pushing out information to people, I think, is going to be really important to follow.

I think we're at a turning point.

These next couple of years, we're gonna be able to tell, you know, is the community gonna come together and actually self-correct some of this misinformation out there?

Or is it going to just get overwhelmed and give up?

- Okay.

- And then create something of little value.

- Okay.

Let's move on to maybe to Twitter now, of course, renamed X.

What's been the impact of Elon Musk purchasing Twitter and in terms of followers and how people use it?

- So Musk bought X in 2022, and it has not gone well.

(laughs) I think the last stats I looked at, about 20% of active users have stepped away from the platform.

It doesn't mean they've necessarily left, but they're not actively using anymore.

The platform's lost billions of dollars.

You know, and X is an interesting, because you have an owner who now is also very involved politically.

And so it's, again, it's one of those, we've always had this interesting relationship between, I'm gonna call it the press and the federal government, right?

And in some ways, X is the press, and now we have somebody actively involved high up in the government running that.

And I think there's a lot of people who are not happy with that and not happy with some of the things being shared there.

- Obviously, there are generations coming up now that have never been without social media.

And so can you talk some about how in tune young people are, maybe some that you teach with social media today and how they're using it and things?

- Well, they're very in tune.

I mean, they are natives.

Although, interestingly enough, there's always a couple in my classes who have tried to stay away from it, or as they come to college, turn it off because it takes too much of their time, and they recognize that very quickly.

But for the most part, I mean, this is where they've grown up.

They're very comfortable in that space.

But almost to the point where they don't know to ask questions.

And I think that's one of my jobs, is to help them look at it critically as well so they can start to decide for themselves what is a value and what isn't in those platforms.

But they love it.

You know, TikTok.

When TikTok went away for a while, they were very upset.

That was very problematic and really shook a lot of their world.

And so learning how to interact with that content is, I think, an important place for us, you know, I think about that from a journalism perspective, learning how to use those tools and those platforms to reach them is great.

- Yeah.

Let's talk about influencers for a moment.

What is an influencer, and what do they do on social media?

- So an influencer is somebody who influences, right?

They have a lot of followers and, you know, usually it's because they're putting out content that people find engaging, and they've gone what we call viral, where, you know, lots and lots of hits and those types of things.

And so they have a lotta power.

I think that would be a good way to look at what an influencer is on social, is this idea of power.

And, and so I find a lot of my students look to those influencers the way we might have looked at, you know, Walter Cronkite back in the day, (Erin laughs) or Dan Rather back in the day.

If they are pushing out news there, that information is gonna hold value.

And so they really pay attention to that.

- So, so how careful should people be and how and where they get their news online?

- I think they should be very, very cautious.

Right now, it's really easy.

You hear a lotta critique and criticism of what we call the legacy media or the mainstream media.

And I am the first to agree that there is criticism to be had.

That said, our legacy media have processes that they follow.

There are editors, there are ethics that are followed.

And so those are good places to at least go for a base of news.

And then if other people are using that news, see it as opinion.

They're giving you a framework for understanding that it's not the news itself.

- Erin, where do you see social media going and evolving in the coming years?

Any ideas that can you tell?

- You know, it's just gonna keep on growing.

I mean, there's no doubt.

And I think we're gonna start seeing some new platforms.

You know, Bluesky started.

As people were leaving X, they needed a new space, and Bluesky is one of those places that's trying to find its way.

And so I think we're gonna start seeing maybe that next generation of social media and what that looks like exactly.

I'm not sure anybody knows.

I know AI will play a role in it and all those different things, but hopefully we can still create a space for everybody to be there.

- As big as this subject is social media, and with all the work that you do with students in college and things, what's the best part of your job?

- You know what?

I love talking to students and understanding how they see the world.

And I think it's really easy sometimes to point to that generation or are, and they're lovely.

They are lovely, smart, intelligent human beings who are in kind of a crazy world right now, but they're ready for it, and it's fun to be part of that.

- Well, we are about to run out of time, but, you know, yeah, it's funny to ask, where do people get information?

'Cause they can get information everywhere, anywhere, but where's the best place to go if they want more information on this subject?

- You know, especially if you're interested in some tools and to recognizing misinformation, the News Literacy Project is a great tool.

I think it's nlp.org.

And they have some great tools and different content that you can walk through to learn how people use that.

- Well, we are out of time, but thanks so much for joining us and talking about social media.

- It was great to be here.

- Stay tuned for more.

(upbeat music) For more than 30 years, John Olesen has been creating beautiful glassware.

From his studio near Clitherall, Minnesota, he creates everything, from wall sculptures to bowls, vases, and wine and martini glasses.

His passion for glass blowing can be seen in his one-of-a-kind designs.

(whimsical music) - [John] My interest in glassblowing is unique to glass and the fact that it can go from these vivid, bright opaque colors to beautiful jewel-toned, transparent colors.

And the fact that it's transparent, you can add great depth to the work, things that you can't do necessarily in some other art forms.

So it just has that breadth of expression that you can utilize, and it's fairly immediate.

Anything like a wine glass I make today is available tomorrow.

My name is John Olesen.

I am an artist focusing in glass, and we are at White Pine Studios.

We're in South Central Otter Tail County.

White Pine Studio has been here since 2002.

My work consists of two different aspects of glass art where I mainly focus on wholesale work, selling to galleries, and that consists of vases, bowls and a lot of stemware, a lot of wine glasses, martini glasses, other high-end drinkware.

That's kind of the bread and butter of what I do.

And I also work in commission work where I'll do specialty pieces for walls and people's homes and some public art.

So all glassblowing starts with a blow pipe, and the blow pipe needs to be preheated.

If it's not hot enough, the glass won't stick to it properly.

It'll pop and crack.

The glass is coming outta here at 2,100 degrees, give or take, 50 degrees.

That's to gather glass.

I got started by going to college at Anoka-Ramsey.

And when I found out they had glassblowing, it was like, well, I would like to try that.

That looks like fun.

That's something I could get into.

Anoka-Ramsey was a two-year college.

So I wanted to go back to school to work on an art degree.

So I started attending University of Minnesota to work on an art degree.

Moved up here in 2002 to build White Pine Studio.

This process is called marvering, I believe, or have been told that marver is Italian for marble.

And in the olden days, it was a piece of marble rather than a piece of steel.

This is little bits of color called frit.

This flower bowl is gonna be a red and blue and pink.

Having blown glass for over 40 years and learning in the early years the craft of glassblowing, learning how to make the objects and shapes that I need to make or wanted to make.

And then going back to school later on, I learned more of the art side of things.

The ability to throw some ideas against the wall and see what sticks.

Making the same thing over and over again, trying to make it a little bit different, but within constraints of a wine glass or a martini glass or a bowl.

After making lots of those pieces, then going back and assessing what parts of it worked and what parts didn't.

And those are my inputs into that.

That is my interpretation of it.

And then my deciding what I want to include and how I want to mash those things up into a final product.

So this is the start of the layering process of color for this bowl.

Most of the color is gonna be focused on the bottom middle of the bowl.

So we'll add color and then we'll get more glass and add more color, more design to it, and then start inflating those gathers of glass to create a bubble.

We'll add vines to the outside of it, and those will be added as a bit of glass that'll get trailed onto there, that organic, natural sort of design to it.

I think for beginners, the biggest challenge for glassblowing is the fact that it always needs to be moving.

The punty is always turning.

There isn't an opportunity to really stop and look at what you're doing.

The glass, you can't stop it.

If it gets too cold, it'll break.

If it's so hot, it'll fall off center.

If it gets off-center, that's a problem for the whole piece.

After three quarters of the piece is done, then we will punty it, the piece, which is applying solid rod with a bit of glass on it to the bottom of the piece, breaking it off of the blow pipe, and then we'll start working on the top and opening it up and doing that finished part.

So that's where we'll see those first bits of color that we put in there.

Although when we're doing it, they're gonna look all the same color.

They're all gonna be orange, or they're all gonna be black.

We won't see the true colors until it cools down the next day.

The reasons I make what I make, I like the pieces that people are gonna use.

I like the stemware and barware type things because I envision people using it and enjoying it.

- Well, that's all we have on "Prairie Pulse" this week, and as always, thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Presenter] Funded by the Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008, and by the members of Prairie Public.