(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to "Prairie Pulse."

Coming up a little bit later in the show, we'll hear from Moorhead, Minnesota, singer-songwriter Nicole Jasperse.

But first, joining us now, our guest is the president of the North Dakota AFL-CIO, Landis Larson.

Landis, thanks for joining us today.

- Thanks for having me.

- As we get started, tell the folks a little bit about yourself, please.

- I was born in Bottineau, North Dakota.

All of my relatives are from the Bottineau, Souris, Westhope area.

When I was three years old, my father sold a gas station he owned and got a job with the Minot Air Force Base as a civil servant.

So he built a house and moved to Foxholm, North Dakota, which is where I spent my formative years.

I went to school in Carpio, North Dakota, eight miles down the road, and I ended up coming to Fargo for going to college in NDSU in 1976, and I've been here ever since.

- Okay.

Well, tell us about North Dakota AFL-CIO, what is it, how it works, and all the things involved in.

- Okay, well, we're actually, North Dakota AFL-CIO is the Federation of Labor Unions in the state.

We have 24 of the major unions as part of our board.

They all serve as a vice president on the board.

We meet quarterly to take care of, you know, and we do all kinds of different issues in the legislature.

I serve on the Governor's Workforce Development Council.

I serve on the Strategic Rehabilitation Council, and we have a member.

We did have a member, but she left just lately on the WSI board also.

- So how did you come to be president, and is it a term length or anything?

- Well, I was a longtime member at the CASE New Holland plant in the Machinist Union, and the retiring president came to me and he thought I could do a good job as the AFL-CIO president and asked me to run.

So I did, and I won the seat.

It's a four-year term.

I just got reelected to another four-year term.

- Okay.

Can you only serve two or?

- Oh, you can serve as many as you want.

- Okay, you can serve as many as you want.

Yeah, you know, how did you start out working and working in a union?

So tell us about your work history then, how that worked.

- Okay, well, I'll just go with the union part of it.

Because, you know, there's the school for a while, but I ended up getting a job with what was Steiger Tractor at the time in 1978.

I worked the night shift for many, many years.

And then in the mid-'80's, when things started going bad for all the farm implement dealerships and the farmers and they went into bankruptcy, they laid me off for a couple years.

So I filled in in a couple other jobs, but in '87 they called me back there.

And after that, I started getting involved in the union.

I was appointed to a lesser position in the union initially.

And then after that, I got elected to president.

I was on the bargaining committee for the union.

I also served on the district council.

And in our political arm, I was also in that too.

- You talked a little bit, you know, how many unions are there in the state?

You mentioned that, but in what work fields and professions are they?

Of course, this state is not famously a big union state.

- Right.

Well, you know, it goes from everywhere, from, you know, our state workers just doing, you know, labor-type work, and there's, you know, laborers all the way up to office and professional employees, and there's everything in between.

You know, I'd have to apologize for missing someone, but, you know, we have government workers, we have teachers, we have electricians, we have steel workers, iron workers, heavy equipment operators, which is the 49ers amongst the Machinist Union, of course, too, that I'm a member of.

- Yeah, with that said, why isn't North Dakota, why is North Dakota not a typical union state, do you think?

- Well, you know, first off, we're a right-to-work state which means even though you have a, you're covered by a union contract, you don't have to be a member, which somewhat weakens the position of the unions because the company knows how many people are members and they know how strong the membership can be on issues.

It's a little tougher because North Dakota seems to be the, you know, rugged individual kind of state that people think they can do it on their own.

And if you have a good employer, maybe you can, but if you have bad employers and you want a voice at work, a union is really the way to go.

- Yeah.

So how many union members are there in the state of North Dakota?

- I just checked with the Bureau of Labor Statistics this morning, and it showed 23,000 union members.

- Well, let's even back up a little bit.

How much can you tell us, or can you talk about how unions got formed in this country and why?

- Okay, well, you know, it goes way back into the 1800s, even prior, because there's multiple reasons.

Number one was, of course, pay and benefits that people were not getting.

There was also terrible safety things that were going on.

I'm sure you, the Shirtwaist Triangle fire, many people died because of serious safety issues.

So that was another issue.

And then just the fact that people can have a voice in their workplace so that if there is not a union there, they can change the rules whenever they feel like.

But when they have a union there, they have set standards that they go by so that they know what they're gonna get and they know what's expected of them.

So, you know, it was a long-fought battle back in history, back in the late 1800s, early 1900s.

Many people died.

I mean, they shot women and children in strike camps in some of the coal mines.

So it wasn't just an easy battle.

It was hard.

- Yeah, so what about on the political side of things?

How political does your organization get in endorsing candidates?

- Well, we do endorsements every other year, just like the bicameral session.

And what we do is we ask for a survey from those politicians.

We send it out and ask them questions that are relevant to the union world.

You know, things like paid leave, time off of work, safety standards, you know, different questions.

And we get those back.

And as a whole council with all of the people there, we review them and vote on 'em whether we're going to endorse 'em or not.

If we do endorse 'em, generally all we can do, well, it's not all we can do, but what we normally do is we educate the membership on the stands of these people and who we actually endorse.

- Mm-hmm.

Can you talk about or comment on the current labor issues going on in the auto industry?

- Okay, the auto industry I can definitely talk about that because, you know, during the 2008, 2009 financial crisis, they came to the unions and they asked for a bunch of concessions to keep the auto plants open, and they gave them to 'em.

One of the concessions that they gave was this two tiered wage groups, which we used to have at the plant that I worked.

And it caused a lot of trouble because what the thing is, two people doing the same exact job, no matter how many years they work there depending on when they get hired, they can never make the same amount of money.

So someone working right alongside the other person is never gonna make the same amount of money as they are, no matter how long they've done that job.

And that is a big issue for them.

And also, it's just to gain back some of the things that they gave back now that the company is making major profits again, they want to share in the wealth.

- Mm-hmm, yeah.

What about the movie and TV writer strikes, and can you talk about what went on there with that one?

- I have some information on that.

You know, some of it is the writers, they were barely making enough money to survive.

They wouldn't even get enough hours in to be able to get their benefits paid for or anything like that.

Plus, there's also the issue that now, with all of the streaming services, you know, it's something that's fairly new to them that they're not getting the residuals that they would if it was on a television or broadcast network.

So they needed to straighten those things out too.

And I don't know if they've got everything done that they needed to yet or not, but the writers are gone back.

- Mm-hmm, yeah.

You know, what kinds of things and issues do you deal with as president of the North Dakota AFL-CIO on a daily and weekly basis?

- Well, you know, there's all the normal things like, you know, doing the bookwork, taking, (coughs) excuse me, taking count of all the members.

But I also, like I told you earlier, sit in the Workforce Development Council, and I've picked a spot to be in that I think is really advantageous to our workers is to people that have, well, they have trouble getting their employment because of different reasons.

And the three reasons I always see is transportation, housing, and childcare.

So those are issues that touch every one of the workers in this state.

So I, you know, I try and get the right answers and get them to push in the right direction.

They actually did get some childcare done last year, but it's just for the zero to three-year-olds before preschool.

- So, as president of North Dakota's AFL-CIO, is it a full-time position?

- [Landis] Yes.

- It's a full-time paid position, so, okay, you are working at it full-time every day, every week?

- Yes.

- Every month.

Okay.

I understand job safety is a huge issue.

You mentioned it a little bit, workers' compensation, things like that.

How much is your organization involved in these issues today?

- We're very involved.

Like I said, we usually have one person on the workforce safety board.

But even during, like, use an example, during the pandemic, when they did the safe restart, there was a lot of concerns amongst members.

So we did a big mailing to the members about what to do if you don't feel safe, you know?

To talk to the labor department, things like that.

During the pandemic, we help push to get masks and gloves, just the basics for the workers in the workplace.

- Mm-hmm.

What is it like dealing with these issues, especially when a worker is injured and has to file a claim?

- It's really tough in our state.

Workforce safety is really tough on the employees.

I spoke with them once, and I had to point out, I looked at one of their audits, and as I told them, North Dakota workers are as honest as the day is long, yet 30% of the initial claims are denied for one reason or another.

And to me, I think the workforce safety should be there to help people get through their injuries or illnesses that are work-related.

So it really makes it tough.

I know a lot of people that get denied their claims, and when they reach out for help, they find out that there's only two lawyers in the whole state that will take on their cases.

So that makes it even harder.

- Yeah.

So then what about labor negotiations over contracts and how they work, you know?

Can you talk about that and, you know, how they work for the person out there who has no idea?

- Okay.

Well, I'll just use my union experience as an example.

I sat on the bargaining committee at CASE, New Holland.

What they do is they vote in, depending on the numbers, four, six, eight people to be on the bargaining committee, and then they have, like, a chief negotiator from higher up in the union.

And the company does the same thing.

There's usually an equal amounts on both sides of the table.

And then we go through the contract article by article.

And if there's some changes that need to be done, you know, we try to negotiate the changes and try to find common ground.

If there's no changes, we just go on to the next one.

Usually the changes come from things that have happened during the last contract period that cause problems over different language in the contract, and we try and get that cleared up.

- Mm-hmm.

You know, why do you think unions are sometimes portrayed as not necessary or portrayed in a negative light by some?

- You know, I think it's more not being educated about it because I know the management doesn't like unions because, without a union, they can make the rules up as they go, they can change 'em on a daily basis, but with a union there, they have to abide by the rules.

There's seven tests to the rules.

They have to be reasonable, they have to be communicated, punishment has to fit the crime, et cetera, et cetera.

So a lot of the companies don't like that.

They don't like the constraints that the union puts on.

So they put out a lot of that message.

- You know, there's some people out there that say unions were needed in those early years you talked about but really not anymore.

What's your response to somebody who would come to you and say, "Yeah, unions were needed back in whatever decades it was, but now it should just, you don't need 'em anymore."

- Okay, well, as we discussed a little earlier, you know, there's the percentage that the people take out of the economy, the top half and the lower half.

Back in the day when they were first formed, the J. Paul Gettys, the Rockefellers, took massive amounts of money out of the economy, and the people got paid very little.

Over the years, as unions gained strength, those things came back, and it's a chart that comes back together.

Remember, like in the '60s, it was 20 times what the top person made to the lower person.

Well, now it's actually spreading back out, just like it was back in the late 1800s, early 1900s.

And people are seeing that that needs to be changed.

They like to have a voice in their workplace, and they like to have safety in their workplace.

- Do you have a knowledge, are new unions being formed, or do you feel like there's a union for every profession that needs to be there, or are they already out there?

- There probably is a union for every profession, but yes, there are still unions being formed.

And the Amazon Labor Union is one prime example.

We actually had the president of the Amazon Labor Union come here, and we did a round table discussion at the Fargo Theater for organizing with some people from Half Price Books in Minneapolis and some of the coffee places.

- So how does that work to form a union?

Of course, management knows it's being formed, and there's always those issues that are talked about.

- Forming a union is really tough.

I mean, and it's even harder than just trying to organize a union because when you go with a union that's already organized, you have some financial backing that's gonna help you through those times.

- Mm-hmm.

So with all that said, how can you grow unions in North Dakota and get the word out?

- Well, people need to know that we're here to help to get a union organized in their workplace if they need it.

They can get ahold of us.

We can send them around to the various unions that would be helpful in their area and use their expertise in organizing.

- Yeah.

Well, we're out of time, but if people want more information, where's the best place for 'em to go?

- We have a website, it's ndaflcio.org, and you'll find all the information.

You can get my telephone number and call anytime you want.

I'll be there.

- Well, we are at the time.

Landis, thanks so much for joining us today.

- Thank you.

- Stay tuned for more.

(upbeat music) Nicole Jaspers is a singer and songwriter from Moorhead, Minnesota, who blends folk and rock music with a unique style of finger picking.

Nicole released her second LP, "Shallow Breaths," in 2022 and performed on our series "Prairie Musicians."

(gentle guitar music) ♪ Scrolling through our messages ♪ ♪ To see if I was interesting enough ♪ ♪ For him to recall my forgettable name in a month ♪ ♪ I'm sure I made no first impression ♪ ♪ I'm sure I nearly bored him to death ♪ ♪ But he could get to know me ♪ ♪ And I could annoy him instead ♪ ♪ When is it my turn to have somebody I can call my own ♪ ♪ Not romanticize someone I don't know ♪ ♪ But memorize someone in real life ♪ ♪ Scrolling through our stalemate conversation ♪ ♪ Dissecting every word that you typed ♪ ♪ As if I didn't have every syllable memorized ♪ ♪ When will he grow up and find out ♪ ♪ I'm the things he wished he'd had ♪ ♪ With him all along before he met me two years early ♪ ♪ When will he graduate ♪ ♪ From turning a blind eye ♪ ♪ Graduate from in my mind's eye ♪ ♪ Graduate and start a real life ♪ ♪ When will I grow up and learn ♪ ♪ That I can't make a person fall ♪ ♪ In love just by thinking of them ♪ ♪ They don't even know me ♪ ♪ When will I graduate ♪ ♪ From fantasizing ♪ ♪ Graduate to realizing ♪ ♪ Graduate and start a real life ♪ (gentle music) (gentle music continues) (gentle music fades) (gentle guitar music) ♪ How can I be the only one in a room ♪ ♪ And it still feels crowded ♪ ♪ So content one second, then so frantic just the next ♪ ♪ Oh, how could, how could I be ♪ (gentle guitar music continues) ♪ How is it that the oxygen seems to leave the air ♪ ♪ Though it's made of it ♪ ♪ How can walls close in that are made of cement ♪ ♪ I think the pressure might crush me ♪ ♪ Crush me ♪ ♪ I might snap every rib if I take a big enough breath ♪ ♪ So I take mine shallow ♪ ♪ I'm not scared of death, I'm just tired of this ♪ ♪ Of broken ribs ♪ (gentle guitar music continues) ♪ Of broken ribs ♪ ♪ How does gravity pull especially strong ♪ ♪ When I need it to let go ♪ ♪ The most ♪ ♪ It picks and chooses the grips it loosens ♪ ♪ And gives the weight to the rest ♪ ♪ Constricted ♪ ♪ Half of the time I am ♪ ♪ How do I manage to deal such damage ♪ ♪ To things that I'm handed ♪ ♪ I ruin and ravage them ♪ ♪ I guess it's a habit of mine ♪ ♪ Oh, I guess it's a habit of mine ♪ ♪ I might snap every rib ♪ ♪ If I take a big enough breath ♪ ♪ So I keep them shallow ♪ ♪ I'm not scared of death, I'm just tired of this ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ ♪ These broken ribs ♪ ♪ These broken ribs ♪ ♪ Broken ribs ♪ ♪ Of broken ribs ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ ♪ Broken ribs ♪ ♪ These broken ribs ♪ - Well, that's all we have on "Prairie Pulse" this week.

And as always, thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] Funded by the Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008.

And by the members of Prairie Public.