(bright music) - Hello and welcome to Prairie Pulse.

Coming up a little bit later in the show, we'll learn about equine assisted therapy.

But first, joining me now is the director of the Fargo Public Library and its various locations, Tim Dirks.

Tim, thanks for joining us today.

- Thank you.

Thank you John.

- As we get started, tell the folks a little bit about yourself and your background.

- Well I'm originally from southeastern Wisconsin.

I've been in libraries just a little over 26 years.

Prior to starting the directorship here in Fargo back in January of 08 I was the director of the Marinette County Library in Marinette County, Wisconsin.

And prior to that the director of the Elm Grove Public Library in Elm Grove, Wisconsin.

My wife and I, Beth are both celebrating our 30 wedding anniversary this year.

We have three adult daughters and a rescue dog named Mel, so never a dull moment.

- Well, it wouldn't be.

Well, we're here to talk about sort of a national trend to put pressure on libraries to remove books, I guess that might have explicit sexual content in them or place 'em in different places in the library.

You know, what are your thoughts on this?

- I think it really comes down to, you know that there's an expectation for folks that the public library is gonna show is gonna have things that express their worldviews, their opinions and their morals.

You know, where the public library we're really focused on, you know we have to represent the whole community and, you know where we look at, you know, First Amendment rights.

I think for individuals we have that in the United States, I think for libraries we have First Amendment responsibilities where we have to you know, be very cognizant of the scope of worldviews and belief systems and family concepts that are in the community and strive to provide collections that represent that.

And I think that's where the conflict comes in 'cause there's an expectation, oh this is the public library, I have this view it should only have this.

No, the word public's a big word and we live in a diverse community.

And so that's, I think where the conflict comes from.

- Is this an issue in search of a problem that isn't there or not?

- I would say that the issue is, again, I think we have people that, you know obviously we have policies in place in terms of how we do we develop our collections that are very specific especially in terms of children's collections, teen collections, adult collections.

So I would say that we have policies in place that really cover that.

That's not to say, given the rhetoric that has been built around this issue that people would still have conflict with individual items.

- So what are the policies of the Fargo Public Library regarding things like this?

- Again, the big policy that we have is the collection development policy, which is huge.

We have another policy called Access to Materials.

And I think what is absolutely important essential for that policy, it basically says that we don't act as local parentis.

In other words, we don't consider ourselves the parent where we, again, our goal is to try and have the most diverse collection possible and we want to empower parents if obviously through what they believe in their worldview, their view of what families makeups are and this kind of thing that that's their conversation and they're watching and paying attention to what their children are reading, viewing and checking out.

The other one is the Freedom to Read and Library Bill of Rights.

And again, that's really focused on saying we are really our responsibility is to serve the full community in terms of the diversity within the collection.

The last one that's really important is a statement of concern policy and procedure where if somebody has an objection to a particular item, we have a whole procedure and a policy built around that that folks can obviously participate in that, submit it and then we follow up.

- Yeah now it's my understanding these policies were in place even before you came on board the Fargo Public library.

- Correct.

- Are these policies that would be similar to most libraries in North Dakota in this region?

- I can only speak for, I think the major libraries in the state of North Dakota all have policies related to these subjects.

- You've been at other libraries you said 26 years it sounds like or so have you seen changes over the years in policies like this?

- I think that I guess I was gratified to come to Fargo and see the very important robust policies that they had in place.

I would say yes, I mean it's essential for libraries kind of getting back to our responsibility to have those diversities of collection.

You protect that by the policies that you have and the good volunteer boards that I've worked with.

- Well, obviously this year North Dakota legislator sort of jumped into this as well.

Can you explain well maybe there were a couple of bills I understand.

Can you explain maybe what they were and then the bill that passed and actually became law and what it says?

- Sure, at the beginning of the session there were two bills that came forward.

There was House Bill 1205 and Senate Bill 2360.

Through the course of the session House Bill 1205 went through many different permutations of the bill itself.

Senate Bill 2360 maintained most of what was there originally at the beginning of the session.

Both were rather unlike any kinda legislation I've ever seen in terms of libraries in 26 plus years.

Essentially saying, especially House Bill 2360 which is not really related completely to the children's collection, but the entire collection to include electronic e-content to say and the language was very broad in terms of how they identified what was offensive or obscene and basically said, well both posited a Class B misdemeanor for individuals that will fully show have those items.

So essentially individual library staff could be under threat of a criminal offense if said item was seen to be within that very broad language.

Now, obviously, again, they made some changes.

So to get to the legislation that passed House Bill 1205 where it is now is it basically has a portion of it related to the Supreme Court's Miller test in terms of obscenity and it's focusing specifically on children's collections with kind of after the first of the year by and then by May of next year would have to submit a report and have policies related to such thing and which are really the policies that we already talked about.

Obviously through the course of the session I had a lot of conversations with the City Attorney's office kind of monitoring that.

So it was, it's still troubling in that its potential impact on the library is again, we don't see the end game in terms of House Bill 1205 as a law.

It also is rather vague in terms of when it used the Miller test to change the language from persons to minors.

So that is basically taking a Supreme Court precedent and then changing the language, which is seen as adding confusion in regards to the law.

The other things is this may increase the level of challenges that we have in terms of to items beyond the children's collection.

And the other thing is certainly the potential chilling effect on out-of-state hiring because, you know library professionals, I don't see them wanting to be in an environment where there's a growing sense of censorship and antagonism towards libraries.

- Now, you know, did you testify during this session and or did others from libraries across the state testify?

I mean, you know, what was the contact like with the legislators during the process.

- I submitted written testimony to both the House Judiciary Committee in terms of House Bill 1205 and the Senate Judiciary Committee in terms to senate Bill 2360.

My library board went on the record in opposition to both bills.

I was very happy to see the mayor and a majority of the city commissioners went on the record in opposition to both those bills.

There certainly was a ground swell of librarians and library users across the state that submitted both oral and written testimony and opposition to those bills.

Having observe the hearings in both the House judiciary and the Senate judiciary committees, it real John it really didn't seem that that the members of those committees had any interest in what library professionals had to say in regards to these bills.

- Well I understand there's wording about submitting compliance reports, you know what's your understanding what that entails and what will that mean?

- It's rather vague in the language.

I would say that again, obviously in discussions with the city attorney's office looking at and say, okay per established library policy, we feel we are in compliance with House Bill 1205 as signed into law per the children's collection.

Obviously we kinda wait and see again 'cause the language isn't clear it just says basically submit this and there's nothing more about what might happen after that.

So certainly on the face of it in terms of current library policy we are in compliance with the law.

- So what is driving this, well I'll say national trend and then of course the state of North Dakota.

What's driving it in your opinion?

- I think John, I think what's going on in terms of the culture wars and a lot of it is based on fear.

You know, I think we're seeing where appearance of in libraries a diversification in libraries in terms of worldviews, views on families and in lifestyles and that's seen as a threat.

I think what is sad is that, you know for us at the public library, it's important and we feel that if we can have resources even for things of something that I may not agree with at least it's a resource there as opposed to a void.

And I worry that the kind of especially when you looked at the language of 2360 and 1205 at the beginning of the session, that was quite, you know that basically would've been an existential problem with the existence of libraries in the state.

And so it kind of gets to, well I don't agree with this, it can't be in the public library or whether it be kind of a state legalized censorship or a kind of a cancel culture attack on items.

Both are kind of, they both come from fear and I really think that public policy based on fear is dangerous.

- This might be an unanswerable question but who decides what's explicit or not or obscene?

- I think in the current, I think the law that passed I think they were struggling with that.

I think ultimately with the way they wrote that in there the way they wrote in the Altered Miller test and they changed the language from persons to minors.

Ultimately it might be the courts that make that distinction.

In regards to your question it's a good question, but I think ultimately with what was passed and how it's built in terms of the language, ultimately it might be the courts.

- Can you talk about the wording of parent interest and in the bill and how this could be seen?

Another vague thing to follow.

- I think again, where they, I think where they the writers came up with that is they took it from, again the Supreme Court's Miller test for obscenity.

And obviously I wasn't in touch with them while they were writing it, but again what they did that is when they put that in there and then at the end of period interest they put minors.

Okay no court has ever identified that or had any kind of legal analysis in regard to that.

So certainly in discussions with the city attorneys there was kinda like well they've taken a Supreme Court precedent and made it vague.

So the term itself is maybe pedantic but also they've made a Supreme Court language they changed the language.

So that is another make it vague also.

- Yeah over the years can you name some famous books that have been banned and have they, have they been removed completely from the library or just moved to a to a certain section of the library and identified?

- You know what's, when you really look at the history of censorship, it's interesting, you know Catcher in the Rye was banned.

George Orwell's 1984, Clockwork Orange, Lord of the Flies the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, the Martian Chronicles.

And again, this is all in the past Aldous Huxley's Brave New World was also banned.

But you look at that list and that's just a handful and they've, right, if you think about those titles now they're considered classics of fiction literature.

So that's the kind of myopic search for a solution by removing those items, that discussion whatever discussions, those items, those those titles incur that's where they become valuable.

And I think just removing those items so we won't have the discussion, I think that's problematic.

- Yeah, of course.

When, when they're banned, I mean, are they taken out of the library completely is the question.

- If you're asking me, I have never been part in my 26 plus years of item being banned.

- Well let's talk more about the library for a minute.

I guess, how many employees do you have there in the Fargo Public library system?

- Yeah, we have just over 49 full-time equivalents, about 62 part-time full-time employees at between the three branches.

- And what is your view of the main role of a library in a community now?

I mean obviously it's changed over the years.

- You know, especially in the context of this discussion, you know it's our ability to be successful, to have resources both for the ongoing education and recreation for all the great, the most, the wider the widest scope of the community in which we serve.

- You know, have you ever received a complaint from a parent about explicit materials at the library?

- Yeah, we've received challenges and or a number of topics.

And generally, again, what we do is based on the statement of concern policy, we take that individual title, they submit the form that they've read it and here's what they disagree about it.

And then we take the title and say, okay, what are the reviews of said title in terms of the major publishers?

And then we look at kind of the universe of libraries and where that book is, where that title exists in those libraries and are we kind of an anomaly in terms of where we have it versus are we in line with libraries within the country, what have you?

And then we kind of take that, we all review it depend we have a committee that comes together as staff, depending on the title that in question, obviously read and then review relevant policy in that regard.

Basically have a recommendation to the full library board at which then we make that recommendation to the board and the board acts on it.

Generally with items of that nature, it kind of gets back to what I said, you know, there's folks that really focus on individual titles throughout the country and they kind of get in the spotlight and get targeted at which point then we hear we get something submitted in regards to a specific title.

- Well Tim, I'm sorry we're out of time but if people want more information, where can they go?

- They can go to the library's website, fargolibrary.org and look at the info and there's all the library policies are on there.

Obviously they can email me tdirks@fargolibrary.org and stop by a library and ask me.

- Tim, thanks so much for your time today.

Stay tuned for more.

(bright music) Equine assisted therapy is becoming known as an option to addressing physical and psychological needs in patients.

In the upcoming segment, watch as horses support individuals on a healthy path towards healing.

- If you can get a person to even walk up and touch a horse to feel the horse breathe, that slow rhythmic breathing.

I've seen people that have had really bad days, they're in crisis situation and the horse just seems to accept all of that from them and calm them down.

(upbeat music) Riciglicano Farms encompasses a lot of different things.

It's an equine facility.

It started out as a Arabian breeding farm and it's evolved into an equine assisted physical and psychotherapy program and a working student program for kids where some of the local schools the kids get off the bus, they do their homework, they work with the horses,.

The makeup of the horses here at Riciglicano Farm is what I like to call eclectic.

- We have everything from the miniature horse to a very large warm blood and everything in between.

- And we also have horses that were rescued.

- And those are the most grateful ones.

We have rescued some that have been in situations where they've been near starved to death or abused.

- We have horses like Aspen who was in the vet's words when we bought her at an auction.

She was within seven days of starving to death.

- All she looked like was bones covered with hair.

She had a baby at her side when we got her.

And the baby was also near death.

- Well, Lori and I purchased them both and it's a very happy ending.

- She has been just such a wonderful horse in our equine assisted therapy program.

- Artie was sold to a 4H girl.

Artie was supposed to die within 48 hours.

- It's very interesting to watch how they go from no trust to then not just trusting, but helping humans.

- We have a client here, a young man, his name's Oliver.

Oliver comes from a very rough background.

Adoptive mother loves him dearly treats him as if it is her blood child.

And she was having problems with Oliver's behavior.

He was acting up at home, acting up at school and he came in here and we started with just talking with him and then brushing the horses.

So he learned through the horses respect for other people's boundaries.

And instead of demanding things, he's learned to ask.

- Let's go get your horse.

- If he asks the horse to come with him using the correct cues with the horse, the horse will come with him.

- Good job.

- Nice and easy.

- But when he demands and yanks on the horse, the horse is not gonna let him do that.

Well, Oliver's come so far with his equine therapy that not only does he still come for therapy with Kallie to work with the horse but he's also now one of our youngest working students.

He works one day a week and he cleans stalls, he hauls barrels, he drives tractors.

He was here for haying.

He's come a very, very long way.

And the horse has allowed him to open up to Kallie which gives her the opportunity to give him the tools to deal with those traumas that he had when he was younger.

- During our sessions when we're working with a horse we have an equine specialist that's also a part of our sessions.

So it'll be the equine specialist myself and then the client.

Ready?

Okay.

You good?

All right, let's look straight ahead.

Squeeze a little bit with their calves and go forward.

- What that equine assisted therapy handler should be looking for is the stress level on that horse.

Because what happens is the horse takes on or reflects back what that rider or patient is giving off.

- You know, we kind of have that fight or flight response when we do something that is scary or that we're fearful of.

Horses are very much on that level as well.

And so they can really read people's body language.

They can even just by touching them they can sense where your heart rate is at.

Are your muscles tenses?

- Give 'em one last hug.

- They really can communicate non-verbally just like how we can, they're very helpful when clients aren't communicating openly and honestly.

- Each horse has a story.

Sometimes they're good stories and sometimes they're not so good stories, but they have stories.

- When we have a new client that comes in here we'll walk through the barn with them and we'll introduce 'em to the horses.

And all as we do is give them the horse's name and they go through and they look and they spend a couple minutes in front of every stall.

And then when they're done, we'll ask them is there a horse that stood out to you?

Is there a horse that you would like to start working with?

- And what is so interesting and almost it's it's dead on scary, the children or adults are drawn to the horse that has their problem.

- Children that have come in here that come from an abusive background, they will migrate to the two horses that are from an abuse case and they know nothing about these horses background but that's the horse that they link with.

We created Hoofbeats for Healing as a 501(c)(3).

And we did that so that people can donate to the horses.

And if people go to our website you can go on there and you can give a donation to get the horse's feet done one time or to that you're going to give so much a month for food for that horse, or you want to, you want to donate money so that a child can work with a horse.

'Cause right now insurance covers the therapy end of it.

It doesn't cover the equine use fee with the horse.

And we've been working forever to try and get insurance companies to recognize it.

So we do have kids that come out here that rely on grants and hoofbeats for healing gives those grants to those kids.

- Nice deep breath in through the nose, down through the head.

How can an animal who can't speak help others speak?

I wouldn't choose anything else to do with my life.

Every single day I get up and I'm like I get to ride horses today.

I get to help others today with my horses.

I get to translate what the horses are saying.

- Well, that's all we have on Prairie Post for this week.

And as always, thanks for watching.

(bright music) - [Narrator] Funded by the Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008, and by the members of Prairie Public.