(bright music) - Hello and welcome to "Prairie Pulse."

Coming up later on the show, we'll profile Bam'idizowigamig Creator's Place in Pine Point, Minnesota.

But first, our guest joining me now, is Troy Coons, the President of Northwest Landowners Association in North Dakota.

Troy, thanks so much for joining us today.

- Thanks for having me.

- As we get started, we always ask, tell the folks a little bit about yourself.

- I grew up on a farm in Donnybrook, North Dakota.

Our farm is a seed farm.

We raised pedigreed seed and sell to other farmers.

We do a little bit of dirt work as well, and our family has always volunteered time to different causes and that's part of the thing behind the Northwest Landowner Association, we saw an issue and some other folks, and so we formed an organization to help the farm and ranching and property owner community of North Dakota.

- Well, you may have just answered my next question, but let's redefine it here.

What is the Northwest Landowners Association?

When and why was it founded?

- It started over 15 years ago when some of us were, there was a proposed world's largest wind farm in our neighborhood.

And so attended multiple meetings, saw things that I didn't think were proper.

A lot of the properties owned by widow ladies and these folks I felt like were taking advantage of those folks that weren't aware of all of the things that they should have.

And so we reached out to the Public Service Commission and others and tried to deal with that.

And that was a real education that showed me we needed an organization, we needed numbers, we needed members, and we needed to be more educated.

And so we formed an organization to deal with the wind farm and other property rights issues.

- Yeah, so how many members do you have now?

- I think we've probably picked up 50, 60, 70, probably in the last two weeks.

So I'm not sure right now, probably around 600, 700.

- Okay, I understand you're thinking about or you're doing a name change?

- Yeah, so we started in Berthold Stanley, North Dakota area.

You know, we started in a garage with just a couple of us sitting around trying to figure it out and we were in Northwest North Dakota so that's what it become.

Since then, all these years we've been at the legislative session and rulemaking with the Department of Environmental Quality and Guidelines and all this.

We've branched out across the state.

We have members in 18 states now where the family disperses out across the country that own property here.

So we're all across the state, members from all over.

And just the meeting we put on last week in Jamestown, they said, "God, I wish you could help us over here."

And we were there to have a meeting and it was the W in the NW Landowners Association, so we started the process to changing it to North Dakota Landowners Association, just for the psyche of it that makes people feel comfortable.

We can work across the whole state.

- Well, and I assume it's grown to more than- - [Troy] It's grown.

- Well, I understand a big lawsuit your group has been involved with in recent years centers around the injection of carbon dioxide into pore spaces to sequester it.

Before I talk about, what does that mean?

- Pore space is the cavities between say the grains of sand or the grains of soil.

It's those voids.

And so where that void is, you can inject other gases or fluids into that.

So that's that area.

That's very simple definition of it.

- So I understand your group is opposed to this and you have a lawsuit against it.

- So we're not opposed to the use of pore space, but we're opposed to the legislation that our legislative body passed that infringed upon our members' constitutional rights.

- Okay.

So take us through maybe some of those legal battles and how it stands now.

- So in 2019, the legislature passed the Senate Bill 2344.

That was our first lawsuit against the state.

It was a facial challenge and we took that all the way to the North Dakota Supreme Court and won.

The next legislative session, they passed another bill, which was Senate Bill 2065.

That was different than the first one, but still related to pore space.

And so our issues with that, they use a term called amalgamation.

It's just another word for taking, that if you get to a threshold and they set a threshold, say you get to 60% or 65% of the people involved in an area, they can take the rest of that property and then they can just determine what or if you get compensation for the use of your pore space, they get to decide all of the terms for you.

So that's a taking.

The other thing they did is took away your right to a jury trial of your peers, which just sounds amazing to me that that can happen in this country.

And then surface access was another issue that was there and how people can come onto your land.

And so we're a believer that they need to get permission and you work out an agreement.

- Again, I think you're almost jumping ahead of me here in some, so, but yeah.

So why is this important to landowners?

- Well, you know, it's one of the key principles of the founding of this country is to be able to own property.

And the key principle of that is to be able to say no to people entering your property.

And so with this, this would be the government allowing them to take your property for certain use, which there is a process called imminent domain.

And then if it's taken and it's in the public good, like say building a highway system or something, they can take it and then they give you what's called just compensation, which is a defined term in the legal system.

And so this other route did not use those.

They used the word equitable and they could have used just compensation and they could have did it through the other process, but they were trying to push something through in a different fashion.

- Well, so obviously, you're stating that landowners deserve the just compensation in these cases.

What kind of just compensation are they looking for?

Is it just monetary or?

- Well, there's a lot of things, but yes, the monetary would be part of it.

You wanna make sure that they have the right to be doing what they want to do and use your property, do they meet the requirements?

And then getting compensated for your land fairly is the key part of it.

So that's when you go to court, then a judge can determine that with expert witnesses and such to determine your compensation.

- So do you think or your organization think that the North Dakota Industrial Commission maybe has too much power in matters such as these?

- I think all of the regulatory agencies, you know, DEQ, DMR, Industrial Commission, they need to have rules and they need to have authority.

This come from the legislature was the guidance to them.

And so do we feel that the Industrial Commission made a large misstep here in themselves?

Yes, because we do have members that have individual lawsuits as well.

And so yes, we feel like they made some mistakes there and that the legislature made some very large mistakes in passing these laws.

- Okay.

Well, I understand your group is opposed to a bill in this legislative session in North Dakota, the Senate Bill 2208, maybe?

- [Troy] Yes.

- And okay, and can you talk about this and where it stands?

- That bill has been defeated.

We defeated that one.

And so, we were fortunate there.

That was one that felt a little bit like extortion from our state government that if you, say, put on moratoriums to certain development in an area to determine how X development fits with your comprehensive plan, they could withhold certain grant funding and different things.

So we're fortunate that that one got killed.

So that one is done at this point.

- Oh, okay.

Well, let's talk about balancing resource development versus property rights in North Dakota.

Can you talk about that some?

- So our organization, its base principles, we were started, when you look at our mission statement was to inform and educate and facilitate relationships.

So we wanted to educate the citizens of North Dakota and our members, educate agencies and industry to work together to have a balance between resource development and reclamation and everybody being treated fairly in the end.

So we're not against industries.

We want it fair and balanced.

And so we put on conferences like last January we had a constitutional conference in Bismarck.

We had, I believe 18 states represented come to it.

We had attorneys from Missouri and Colorado and all over the country, Wyoming, come and spoke about different constitutional issues and issues taking place across the nation and in North Dakota.

And it was an environment that a lot of these people could come into that they hadn't had a chance to before.

We're going to have another meeting this coming January.

And I believe the focus of that one will be emerging industries because they usually talk about 80 to 100, $120 million worth of investment into the state in a biennium, the current talk is 100 million or 100 billion.

So a drastic change.

And with that, there is so many emerging industries that even our government, the regulators, the citizens and our members aren't versed on, so we're gonna look at getting in key speakers and have educational elements.

I mean you're talking about lithium and saltwater brine that goes down hole, right now we may be using some of that.

Rare earth minerals and the coal seams and other places, data mining, Bitcoin mining, battery storage, CO2 cavern storage, just there's a litany of things coming that most of us aren't versed in.

So a lot of things happening.

- And a lot of things there.

You said probably bring up more questions to ask, but we'll stick with what I got here for the moment.

You know, how does your group try to protect mineral owners' rights?

- So we are a property owner group, but most of our surface owners and property owners do own minerals as well.

So in our last survey, mineral ownership, some of the questions there come to the top of the list and we've looked into a lot of different things, 'cause right now there's kind of an epidemic in the energy industry with a lot of deductions being taken out of people's royalties for oil and gas.

And the definition of a royalty is a cost-free interest in something.

And now there's a lot of deductions, some places aren't doing it, some places are taking 60%.

And so that's an issue there, that's a very large issue to deal with.

So we try to find the balance between the development and the surface rights 'cause the surface owners house all of these developments, so they need to protect it and they usually only get damages is what it's called.

So it's a fine balance, but we are not against industries, we just wanna be protected.

- And most of us, when we think of mineral rights, maybe just think of oil rights.

Are there other mineral rights that are being protected?

- For sure, yeah, you got your oil and your gas and now we're talking rare earth elements or rare earth minerals.

That's an emerging thing we're negotiating really hard right now at the Capitol with the coal industry and the electric producers and our membership and the senators at the moment to try to figure out a bill which is called 1459 and that's dealing with these rare earth minerals and they want to pass legislation to set up a structure with the Industrial Commission to work on that.

We're asking to keep it constitutional.

We gave our legislature and the Governor's Office, Attorney General's, DMR, DTL, a legal memo done by Derek Broughton and Charles Carvell on all the pitfalls of what they're producing here in this document that we feel like there's a massive legal challenge and an unconstitutional taking and interjecting into contracts, say a percentage or definitions when these were signed back in the '50s.

So some big issues there that we're dealing with too.

- Yeah, how's your group been involved with say, wind farm development?

- Well, back in the day when we started, that was why we started.

They were looking at the world's largest wind farm in our neighborhood.

And so we saw some real issues with how that was going and some of the contracts, things that we thought were very unethical.

And so we got together and come down to the legislature, it was a few of us, didn't go well for us, went to the PSC, that was a struggle.

Then we determined we needed to have an organization and we deal with everything now.

It was wind, when oil hit right after that, it just shoved us to the front of things.

A lot of other groups don't take these challenges on.

And so we're taking on all of these from the Red River Water Project that's coming forward and a bunch of others.

- Can you talk about how your group is nonpartisan?

- Yep.

Just had that conversation with a senator today in their office.

And that was mentioned at our constitutional conference where we had people from different states there that were strong to the Republican, strong to the Democratic.

We never talk about any of that.

We're issue based, we're talking about issues, so we don't get into any of that.

And so people feel we're very forthright, honest about our issues and we never allow that to enter in, any political.

- Okay.

You know, former North Dakota Governor Art Link famously talked about when the landscape is quiet again.

What did he mean by that?

- Well, we used that quote for years and years and years and still believe in it.

And he was a very smart, thoughtful, forward-thinking person.

What it is is when you have whatever development, if it's coal, if it's oil and gas, if it's rare earth minerals, on and on, we need to have processes in place at the start of development.

So when that time ends, the people that are hosting all of these developments are made whole and that that land will be protected and will be proud to own it and the state will be proud of it, not just eyesores like you see across the world.

- Does that still stand true today?

- His statements?

Yes, for sure.

- You know, what are some of the other issues maybe that your group's currently involved in?

- We're working, like I said, on power lines, pipelines, water issues, rare earth minerals, just on and on, like I said, lithium and saltwater brine, reclamation on oil well and gas sites.

We're trying to get the DMR more reclamation specialists, in the oil and gas industry, there's one reclamation person for the whole state, and in the PSC, there's 10 and a half people for coal.

Well, the size and scope of the oil and gas dwarfs the coal.

So it seems like kind of counterintuitive you got one person here and this is about 60% of our economy now, so we feel like we should be able to have more reclamation specialists.

So when you start the reclamation process, that's the day that disturbance happens.

We should have a plan and how to do that.

So in the end, the suitable plant growth material is there and we can reclaim this back to productive use again.

- So how do you monitor oil wells in the state and the oil drilling?

- So you know, that is done through the Department of Mineral Resources.

They have inspectors that are supposed to go on site and watch the pumping in the tanks and the sites and the berms, and if there's pipe being placed, all of that.

There should be more of those as well.

If you do the math on that, it's impossible for them to get everything done that should be done.

I'm very excited to work with our new director, Nathan Anderson.

I think he is a good guy.

I feel some good things coming.

He seems to be saying the right things and trying to do the right things.

- So why is it land is important in this state?

- Well, it's one of the key principles of why this nation is what it is.

You know, it's a dream of people to own property and be able to develop it how they see fit and be the key thing to that is you can say no to somebody entering your property.

It's one of the key constitutional principles.

- How busy are you with all that goes on with your organization?

- There could be six of me and I couldn't keep up.

We are sprinting as fast as we can.

So many emerging things happening.

We are in the game, we're at the legislative session constantly.

We are a real factor, like the past majority leader in the Senate said, before you guys existed, it was the legislators and industry talking and making the decision.

Now we have the third party that can come in and represent the other side.

And so we feel like we've made a lot of positive changes that way.

But yeah, there's so much happening, which is great, it's opportunity.

With this much opportunity, we're very blessed in the state.

But with that opportunity comes all of the pitfalls and risks that you need to be versed and educated on as well.

- You know, we've talked a lot about it, but do you find that sometimes landowners aren't really aware of their rights and the laws pertaining to the land?

- All day every day.

You know, we don't have enough attorneys in this state that are experts in all these different fields.

You know, you can go to a lawyer and things are legal, but are they just?

So we need a lot of lawyers that work with us and be better versed in it.

Most people aren't, farmers and ranchers are farmers and ranchers for a reason.

We're out there, we liked our solitude in doing things.

So when this comes at you, one of the key things I find is a problem is say a power line's going through.

They work on it five to seven years in advance.

They give us a 30-day notice to get it figured out.

Move us up in the queue, allow us the time to do our due diligence.

- Yeah, Troy, we are out of time, but if people want more information, where can they go?

- They can go to Northwest Landowners Association and all of our board members are there.

Our executive director's listed there.

My personal phone number is 701-721-4258.

Give me a call and we'll try to help you.

- Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

- [Troy] Thank you.

- Stay tuned for more.

(bright music) Bam'idizowigamig Creator's Place is a small manufacturing center in Pine Point, Minnesota near the White Earth Nation Reservation.

Founder Jean Kruft shares with us how this facility offers locals employment, on-the-job training, and income through manufacturing and artistry.

(soft music) - In the Ojibwe language, bam'idizo means support oneself or provide for oneself.

Wigamig is just a house or a place.

So this is a place where people can provide for themselves or support themselves.

I'm Jean Kruft and I am the founder of Bam'idizowigamig Creator's Place.

We are in Pine Point, Minnesota, and that is a reservation village on the White Earth Reservation.

Right before the pandemic, I had started volunteering out here and I saw the skills and the enjoyment people were having and I thought, "Well, Pine Point needs a place to work.

They need a place to be."

But there isn't, there wasn't anything, there wasn't any kind of employment at all.

So I thought, "Well, it would be good to have like a little center for manufacturing, arts, whatever people could do to have a place like that right here in Pine Point."

And of course I'm a retired educator and I thought, "Well, that's a nice idea."

However, about a week after I had that idea, my cousin Albert Koloski had passed away and had left me $250,000.

And I thought, "Well, that's what that's for."

There just wasn't any doubt in my mind.

So I ordered this steel building, created a board of directors, created a 501c3, a nonprofit.

I don't know that anyone ever thought that I would really build this.

However, it did.

And it's an amazing thing.

I mean, it's amazing to me that this has come together and actually worked.

There are many barriers to people here going out beyond this community to find work.

There is racial prejudice in the outer community.

People often don't have valid driver's licenses or vehicles.

There's criminal backgrounds that can look real bad on a resume if you have the resources to make a resume.

And childcare, there's no real childcare here.

So there are many barriers to going beyond this village to find work.

And, you know, the idea is this is kind of a stepping stone.

Each person here has an individual plan, an employment plan that they are working on, and we identify the barriers that they have and figuring out ways to overcome those barriers while still getting the experience and skills that they need for going on and working someplace else.

(hammer banging) (saw whirring) (drill whirring) Well, we have 20 people from the Pine Point area.

We have artists, visual artists, we have the people that are being trained in woodworking, people who are practicing the traditional arts with their bead work and moccasin making.

The big things that we can't ship, like the picnic tables and the park benches and the patio furniture, those have gone to parks.

Different individuals have bought picnic tables.

And so the big things go in the local area, but the smaller things, anything that we can ship, we put on our Creator's Place Etsy site that is maintained by one of our trainees, Jeremy Mitchell.

Just been amazingly good at figuring out how to do all that between the photography and the marketing and the sales copy and all of that, we have about 160 items on our Etsy site.

So those things, they go all over the nation.

A lot of things to the West Coast and the East Coast.

(tape squeaking) And our wild rice, it's amazing how much goes to Hawaii.

Who knew?

(laughs) (soft music) - Every day is a blessing, you know, you wake up in the morning.

My name is David Edwards.

I actually, I do artwork.

I actually draw and paint and help out around the shop whenever it's needed.

And we've grown a lot in over a year.

A lot of this stuff wasn't here a year ago, but now I come here and it's just, this is the best thing, you know, that could ever happen to all of us.

Me as an artist, you know, everybody that comes in here and contributes, this place is something else.

It's the best.

I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it is a dream job.

- I see it as doing, right, what it's doing right now, but being an actual manufacturing center and art center where people are practicing their art for as many hours a week as what they want to in order to sustain themselves and their families, there's a dream that we would have land next to this that would have automotive center.

Many, many backyard mechanics that are excellent here in the community.

And so it would be very nice to have a shop where they could have a lift for the vehicles and that kind of thing.

And of course, the real dream is that this will be totally run and operated by people from this community.

So this will be their economic venture.

I'm just amazed that that this is, it's just exactly what I thought it might be.

And that doesn't happen a lot in a person's life.

So yeah, I'm just amazed and thankful.

- Well, that's all we have on "Prairie Pulse" this week.

And as always, thanks for watching.

(bright music) - [Announcer] Funded by the Minnesota Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund with money from the vote of the people of Minnesota on November 4th, 2008, and by the members of Prairie Public.