♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Crossley: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST, AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT: "PRESERVING BLACK BOOKS."

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC, AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF, AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

BLACK BOOKS ARE UNDER ATTACK THE TARGET OF BANNED BOOK LISTS AND POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS TO STRIP LOCAL AND SCHOOL LIBRARIES OF BOOKS ABOUT RACE AND GENDER.

AND, THE SMALL GROUP OF BLACK BOOKSTORES IS GETTING SMALLER, SQUEEZED BY COVID-RELATED DISTRIBUTION PROBLEMS, DWINDLING INVENTORY AND THE UPTICK OF CONSUMERS WHO READ EBOOKS.

WHAT'S MORE, MAJOR PUBLISHERS HAVE TRADITIONALLY PUBLISHED LOW NUMBERS OF BOOKS BY AUTHORS OF COLOR.

BLACK PUBLISHED AUTHORS MAKE UP ONLY 6% OF ALL PUBLISHED AUTHORS.

THESE MULTIPLE CHALLENGES HAVE SPARKED A BROAD-BASED EFFORT TO PRESERVE BLACK BOOKS.

BUT FIRST, PROFESSOR RENEE LANDERS, FROM SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW, JOINS US TO DISCUSS THE LEAKED OPINION DRAFT FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

THE DRAFT INDICATES A MAJORITY OF JUSTICES SUPPORT OVERTURNING THE HIGH COURT'S 1973 LANDMARK DECISION, "ROE V.

WADE."

IF THE LEAKED DRAFT IS CORRECT, WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN FOR BLACK AND OTHER WOMEN OF COLOR?

RENEE?

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> HELLO.

IS.

>> Crossley: HERE'S A CONTEXT.

ONE OF EVERY FOUR AMERICAN WOMEN GET AN BORINGS, BETWEEN 14 AND 44.

HALF OF THOSE ARE BY WOMEN WHO ARE BLACK AND LATINO.

>> WILL HAVE A DISMONTH PORTION AT EFFECT ON BLACK WOMEN AND OTHER WOMEN OF COLOR.

TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY LIVE IN STATES THAT WILL IMMEDIATELY ENACT ABORTION BANS OR WHICH HAVE ALREADY HAVE DONE SO IN ANTICIPATION OF THE SUPREME COURT RULING.

THEY WILL HAVE TO TRAVEL OUT OF STATE, IN ORDER TO OBTAIN ABORTIONS.

AND FOR MANY THAT IS NOT ECONOMICALLY POSSIBLE.

>> Crossley: NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 13 STATES THAT HAVE SO-CALLED TRIGGER LAWS THAT WILL GO INTO PLACE IF ROE IS OVERTURNED.

MEANING AN IMMEDIATE LAW THAT WOULD BAN ABORTIONS.

SOMETHING THAT HAS -- THAT MOST WOMEN ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF, THOUGH THE STATISTICS ARE NOT CLEAR ABOUT HOW MANY WOMEN OF COLOR ARE MEDICAL ABORTIONS, SO-CALLED.

>> CORRECT.

>> Crossley: WHERE YOU TAKE TWO PILLS.

CAN THAT BE IMPACTED BY THE OVERTURNING OF ROE?

>> THAT IS A MORE COMPLEX QUESTION AND I THINK THOSE SAME STATES ARE MOVING ON TO THE NEXT PROCEDURE, ABOUT HALF OF ABORTIONS NOW ARE ACCOMPLISHED USING THAT MEDICAL -- THE MEDICAL APPROACH AS OPPOSED TO A SURGICAL APPROACH.

SO THEN, YOU GET INTO ISSUES ABOUT WHETHER IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE FOR A STATE TO BAN SHIPMENTS OF THESE DRUGS INTO THE STATE.

AND I THINK THERE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL PROBLEMS WITH THAT.

THERE ARE UNDER THE COMMERCE CLAUSE YOU KNOW NOT TO GET TOO NERDY ABOUT THIS BUT CONGRESS IS IN CHARGE OF REGULATING INTERSTATE COMMERCE AND STATES HAVE LIMITED OPPORTUNITY TO INTERFERE WITH INTERSTATE COMMERCE.

THAT'S WHAT THOSE BANS WOULD DO.

I THINK THAT IS A MORE PROBLEMATIC AVENUE FOR THESE STATES.

>> Crossley: NOW YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING THAT I HADN'T THOUGHT OF IN TERMS OF A NEW REPORT THAT'S JUST COME OUT ABOUT THE DECLINE IN NUMBERS OF PHYSICIANS OF COLOR.

HOW DOES THAT PLAY OUT IN A SCENARIO WHERE ROE MAY BE OVERTURNED AND AS WE'VE SAID HALF OF ALL WOMEN WHO ARE GETTING ABORTIONS ARE BLACK AND ATLANTAOLATINO?

>> TWO THINGS, ONE IS THAT FOR A LONG TIME THE MEDICAL PROFESSION TO ITS CREDIT HAS RECOGNIZED THAT IT IS VERY PROBLEMATIC THAT THERE ARE SO FEW PHYSICIANS OF COLOR IN THE COUNTRY, THAT PHYSICIANS OF COLOR DISPROPORTIONATELY SERVE LARGE NUMBERS OF PATIENTS OF COLOR.

AND ALSO, AS WE SAW DURING COVID, YOU KNOW, PHYSICIANS OF COLOR AND OTHER HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS OF COLOR ARE -- CAN BE TRUSTED MESSAGERS FOR PUBLIC HEALTH INFORMATION.

IF THE SUPPLY AND THE NUMBER OF PHYSICIAN HE OF COLOR SHRINKS THAT WILL FURTHER, YOU KNOW, IMPERIL THE HEALTH OF BLACK WOMEN AND OTHER BLACK PATIENTS BECAUSE IT IS A MORE PERVASIVE PROBLEM IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WHICH IS ONLY COMPASS BAITED IN THE TEXT OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH SERVICES.

>> Crossley: DO YOU FEAR A RETURN TO PRECOVID DAYS WHERE EVERYTHING GOES UNDERGROUND AND THERE IS MORE DANGER TO WOMEN TRYING TO ACTUALLY SELF-ABORT?

>> WELL, IN THE PRE-ROE DAYS YES.

SO I THINK THAT FIRST OF ALL THERE ARE A LOT OF STATES, YOU KNOW, ABOUT HALF THE STATES WILL STILL AT LEAST IN THEORY, HAVE MORE LIBERAL ABORTION LAWS WHICH MAKE ABORTION AVAILABLE.

AND I THINK THAT THOSE STATES, AND THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE ORGANIZATIONS IN THOSE STATES, WILL WORK VERY HARD TO TRY RAISE THE FUNDS SO THAT WOMEN WILL HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A SAFE AND LEGAL PROCEDURE.

TO WHICH THEY SHOULD BE ENTITLED.

AND SO I THINK THAT THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

I THINK ALSO THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO BE WARY OF THIGHS CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTERS WHICH MASQUERADE AS HEALTH CARE CENTERS.

BUT THEY'RE VERY FOCUSED ON PERSUADING WOMEN NOT TO HAVE ABORTIONS.

AND YOU KNOW PEOPLE CAN MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICE ABOUT WHETHER TO HAVE AN ABORTION OR NOT.

BUT THESE CENTERS MASS KERR KERR AID AS HEALTH CARE CENTERS TAKE AWAY WOMEN'S HEALTH CARE SERVICES AND NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE A LEGAL ABORTION.

THE OTHER RISK HERE WATCHING OUT IS MAKING WOMEN AWARE THAT THESE ORGANIZATIONS EXIST AND TO REALLY GO TO TRUSTED REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE CLINICS WHO WILL PROVIDE HEALTH CARE.

>> Crossley: VERY QUICKLY RENEE, THIS IS A DRAFT OPINION BUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT PROBABLY IS THE FINAL DECISION?

>> YOU KNOW I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME TWEAKS.

I THINK -- I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED IN THAT MAJORITY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE WHERE CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS SITS IN ALL OF THIS.

I THINK THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY AMENABLE TO ANY OF THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE RISKS THAT THEIR DECISION POSES FOR WOMEN'S HEALTH.

AND THE IMPACT ON REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH SERVICES GENERALLY.

YOU KNOW, FOR WOMEN EVEN WHO WANT TO CARRY A PREGNANCY TO TERM.

CRFERS THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Crossley: NOW TO OUR MAIN DISCUSSION.

JOINING US REMOTELY: CARMEN FIELDS IS AN AWARD-WINNING TV HOST, JOURNALIST AND WRITER, AND IS BEING HONORED FOR CONTRIBUTING HER COLLECTION OF BOOKS WRITTEN BY BLACK AUTHORS TO THE SALEM STATE UNIVERSITY LIBRARY.

MARITA GOLDEN IS A LITERARY CONSULTANT, WRITING COACH AND AN AWARD-WINNING AUTHOR OF MANY BOOKS, INCLUDING HER BOOK, "THE STRONG BLACK WOMAN," AND THE CO-FOUNDER OF THE HURSTON/WRIGHT FOUNDATION.

KIM McLARIN, PROFESSOR AND INTERIM DEAN OF GRADUATE AND PROFESSIONAL STUDIES AT EMERSON COLLEGE.

SHE IS ALSO AN AWARD-WINNING AUTHOR OF SEVERAL BOOKS.

HER LATEST IS, "JAMES BALDWIN'S ANOTHER COUNTRY: BOOKMARKED."

AND, CAROLINE KAUTSIRE, PROFESSOR AT BUNKER HILL COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND AUTHOR OF, "WHAT KIND OF GIRL?"

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

I WANT TO START -- GLAD TO HAVE YOU.

I WANT TO START THIS WAY BECAUSE ALL OF YOU ARE AUTHORS AND SO IT MAY SEEM A SIMPLE QUESTION BUT WHY NOT EACH OF YOU WEIGH IN ON WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO PRESERVE BLACK BOOKS.

I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU MARITA GOLDEN.

>> WELL IT'S IMPORTANT TO PRESERVE BLACK BOOKS BECAUSE BLACK BOOKS ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE AMERICAN AROUND THE WORLD CONSCIOUSNESS.

THE AMERICA AND THE WORLD CREATIVE AND LITERARY AND INTELLECTUAL HERITAGE.

WE OFTEN DON'T THINK OF BLACK BOOKS IN THAT LARGE A CONCEPT BUT THAT'S MY REASONING FOR THE IMPORTANCE OF THE WORK THAT ALL OF US DO.

AND I THINK AS SOMEONE WHO CAME OF AGE IN THE LATE 1960s AND EARLY 1970s WHERE THERE WAS THIS HUGE RENAISSANCE AND REPUBLISHING OF A LOT OF BLACK BOOKS THAT HAD BEEN BANNED THAT HAD BEEN ALLOWED TO GO OUT OF PRINT, TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING TODAY, IS REALLY, REALLY DISHEARTENING.

SO WE'RE NOT JUST PRESERVING AN AMERICAN LEGACY.

OR A BLACK LEGACY.

WE'RE PRESERVING A GLOBAL WORLD LEGACY.

BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK OF WRITERS LIKE HURSTON, RICHARD WRIGHT SO MANY OF OURS THEY HAVE BEEN LOVED ALL OVER THE WORLD.

>> Crossley: KIM.

>> YES I WOULD SECOND THAT.

YOU KNOW I THINK IT'S HENRY LOUIS GATES WHO IN MANY WAYS SAYS, AMERICAN THRURT IS UNIQUE IN ALL OF THE WORLD, WHERE SLAIFARY, PEOPLE WHO ARE ENSLAVED CREATED THEMSELVES AND OUT OF THAT CREATED A LITERATURE THAT TESTIFIED TO THEIR DESIRE TO BE FREE AND TO THEIR HUMANITY AND EVERYTHING ELSE RIGHT?

SO AFRICAN AMERICAN LITERATURE HAS TRANSFORMED THE WORLD.

NOT ONLY UNITED STATES, AND IT IS VITAL, IT SPEAKS TO EVERYTHING.

EVERY ASPECT OF HUMANITY AND SO IT IS VITAL BOTH FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR AND BLACK PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR, BECAUSE IT REPRESENTS THEM, BUT IT ALSO IS -- IT'S JUST A HUMAN LITERATURE THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN.

AND SO WE DESPERATELY NEED THOSE BOOKS BECAUSE WE DESPERATELY NEED TO KEEP PROGRESSING IN OUR HUMANITY, IN THIS COUNTRY AND IN THIS -- AND IN THIS WORLD.

>> Crossley: CAREY LIEP.

>> SPEAKING OF PROGRESS.

I THINK THAT IT IS A WAY TO PRESERVE HISTORY.

BECAUSE WE NEED TO KNOW WHERE WE'VE COME FROM IF WE'RE GOING TO ADD, CONTRIBUTE TO THAT PROGRESS.

AND YES, IT'S ABOUT HONORING LEGACY.

WE ACKNOWLEDGE THE HARD WORK THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST, AND CELEBRATE THAT BLACK EXCELLENCE AT THE END OF THE DAY.

I THINK IT'S ABOUT PRESERVING BLACK CULTURE.

AND UNDERSTANDING THE DIFFERENT TRADITIONS THAT HAVE COME UP IN THE PAST WHETHER WE'RE GOING TO HOLD ONTO THEM OR EVOLVE IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

YES I THINK IT'S VERY MUCH ABOUT PRESERVING HISTORY.

>> Crossley: AND CARMEN.

>> DITTO TO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS SAID.

I COME FROM A IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY, HAVING BEEN A PRODUCTION OF SEGREGATED SCHOOLS IN TULSA OKLAHOMA AND BEING EXPOSED IN MANY WAYS TO OUR LITERATURE AND THEN GOING INTO THE MAJORITY POPULATION, AND I WAS INGRAD SCHOOL AND QUOTING AND REFERRING TO SOME OF THESE WORKS ONLY TO DISCOVER THAT MY CLASSMATES HAD NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THESE PEOPLE AND THESE PARTICULAR WORKS AND TRADITIONS.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO PRESERVE, BUT IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT FOR THE GREATER SOCIETY AND WORLD, TO BE AWARE.

>> Crossley: AND SO YOU'VE TAKEN A VERY SPECIFIC STEP CARMEN, PERSONALLY, BY GATHERING UP A LOT OF THE BOOKS AND MATERIALS THAT YOU SPOKE ABOUT.

AND PASSING IT ON TO SECOND GENERATION.

TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH YOUR CARMEN FIELDS COLLECTION AT SALEM STATE LIBRARY.

>> WELL, TO PUT IT AT A BASIC LEVEL.

DURING THE PANDEMIC, THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH GRAVEL YOU CAN PLAY, THERE'S ONLY SO MANY MOVIES YOU CAN BINGE-WATCH AND I AM ADMITTEDLY A PACK RAT.

SO IT BECAME TIME, I THOUGHT A GOOD USE OF TIME TO SORT AND DECLUTTER MY POSSESSIONS, AND ONE OF MY MOST PRIZED POSSESSIONS IS MY BOOKS.

BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO JUST GIVE THEM AWAY WILLY-NILLY.

I FELT LIKE I GUESS A PLOTTING GETTING READY TO PUT HER CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE.

I WANTED THE FAMILY TO STAY TOGETHER.

TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE.

AND LUCKILY, I FOUND A LISTENING EAR, A WILLING ACCEPTANCE OF THE DONATION OF A COLLECTION OF BOOKS BY BLACK AUTHORS THAT I'M DONATING.

>> Crossley: SO YOU SAY THE COLLECTION IS ABOUT 500 BOOKS.

AND THESE ARE -- BUT YOU HAVE WAY MORE THAN THAT IN YOUR PERSONAL COLLECTION SO WHY THESE PARTICULAR 500?

>> BOWS THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME.

AND IT'S BOOKS BY BLACK AUTHORS AND OTHER AUTHORS WHO HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT BLACK SUBJECT MATTER OR MINORITY SUBJECT MATTER.

FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF MY AMY TAN BOOKS ARE INCLUDED IN THE COLLECTION BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THEM ARE BY BLACK AUTHORS AND THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE MOST PRECIOUS TO ME THAT I'VE HELD ONTO SINCE I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL.

AND EVEN BEFORE.

AND THROUGH COLLEGE.

THROUGH GRAD SCHOOL.

THROUGH BOOK CLUB.

AND THAT -- THAT WAS WHY THAT WAS SELECTED.

>> Crossley: NOW, FOLLOWING UP MARITA, YOU MENTIONED THE BOOKS THAT ENDED UP BEING REPRINTED, SOME OF THEM OR BROUGHT FORTH AGAIN DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS AND WOMEN'S MOVEMENT THAT WERE OUT OF PRINT FOR A WHILE AND SOME OF THEM HAVE AGAIN GONE OUT OF PRINT.

SOME OF THEM ARE IN CARMEN'S COLLECTION.

BUT YOU TOO HAVE A FORMAL BLACK BOOKS PRESERVATION PROGRAM THROUGH THE HEARSE-WRIGHT FOUNDATION WHERE YOU ARE SUPPORTING WRITERS TO SUPPORT THESE PRODUCTS.

TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> WELL, THE HEARST AND WRIGHT FOUNDATION IS NOW 32 YEARS OLD.

AND I'M VERY PROUD THAT THE FIRST IMPORTANT DECISION THAT I MADE WAS TO CO-FOUND IT WITH CLYDE McELVANE.

THE SECOND MOST IMPORTANT DECISION WAS TO TURN IT OVER TO A NEW GENERATION OF LEADERSHIP.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KEEP THESE INSTITUTIONS INFUSED WITH NEW IDEAS, NEW PEOPLE.

AND IF YOU HAVE A BRILLIANT IDEA IT WILL FIND MANIFESTATION IN THE NEXT GENERATION.

WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST 32 YEARS IS CREATING COMMUNITY, CREATING A SAFE SPACE FOR CREATION, REALIZATION OF BLACK STORIES AND NARRATIVES.

SO THAT WE HAVE THE SUMMER WRITERS WORKSHOP, WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP, WE HAVE CONNECTIONS WITH SEVERAL UNIVERSITIES WHERE WE HAVE WRITERS COMING TO RESIDENCES, WE ALSO OFFER THE LEGACY AWARD WHICH IS KIND OF THE OSCARS OF BLACK LITERATURE EVERY FALL WHERE WE HONOR THE BEST BLACK WRITERS OF PUBLISHED FICTION, NONFICTION AND POETRY.

WE HONOR CULTURAL ACTIVISTS AND INNOVATORS.

FOR 30 YEARS ALONG WITH ORGANIZATION HE LIKE BONA, KOPI CONOM WE HAVE BEEN CREATING IN THE VERY INTENTIONAL WAY THE NEXT GENERATION OF BLACK WRITERS SO WE ARE CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM AND WE HAVE HAD A REALLY PROFOUND IMPACT.

SO EVEN THOUGH ONLY 6% OF ALL WRITERS IN AMERICA WHETHER PUBLISHED OR BLACK, ORGANIZATIONS LIKE HURSTON AND WRIGHT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A LOT OF THAT PERCENTAGE.

SO VERY GRATIFYING TO DO THAT WORK.

>> CAROLINE, YOUR NEW BOOK WHAT KIND OF GIRL, TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE TEACHING YOUR STUDENTS THAT HELPS TO UNDERSCORE THE OVERALL MISSION OF PRESERVING BLACK BOOKS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE.

>> I THINK THE FIRST THING THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BLACK EXPERIENCE, THERE'S DEFINITELY INTERSECTIONALITY THAT IS GOING ON THERE.

MY STUDENTS ARE COMING IN WITH DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHICS AND I HELP THEM KIND OF UNDERSTAND THEIR PLACE IN THE NARRATIVES THAT WE TALK ABOUT IN CLASS.

I THINK THAT ONE THING THAT HELPS IS, MY MALAUIAN IDENTITY, WHEN I UNDERSTAND MY PLACE IN SOCIETY IT KIND OF INSPIRES MY STUDENTS TO ALSO SHARE THEIR STORIES, SHARE THEIR PLACE IN SOCIETY, BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY THEY ARE TRYING TO FIND THEIR VOICES.

THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO THEY ARE.

AND WE TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE AFRICAN NARRATIVES.

I KNOW ONE THING THAT HAS KIND OF AWOKE AN LOT OF PEOPLE TO THE POWER OF NARRATIVES IS KNOWING THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF NEGATIVE NARRATIVES ABOUT AFRICAN.

AND IT'S TIME TO HAVE NEW NARRATIVES.

WE DON'T WANT THESE NEW NARRATIVES ABOUT AFRICANS ALWAYS NEED SAVING, AFRICANS ARE ALWAYS THE VICTIMS AND SOMEBODY NEEDS TO COME IN TO SAVE THEM BUT WE HAVE OTHER NARRATIVES.

WHEN I SHARE MY BOOK WHAT KIND OF GIRL WITH STUDENTS, IT'S LIKE THE FRESH PRINCE OF BEL AIR BUT IT'S AN AFRICAN FAMILY.

THEY SEE THEY CAN DO IT TOO WITH THEIR STORIES.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO WRITE A STORY ABOUT THE MOST TRAGIC THING, THE MOST EXCITING THING.

THESE ARE JUST STORIES THAT NEED TO BE TOLD AND I INSPIRE MY STUDENTS TO DO THAT BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH LIBERATION IN TELLING YOUR OWN NARRATIVE.

>> Crossley: SO KIM ONE OF THE THREATS TO OF COURSE THE PREFERENTIAL OF BLACK BOOKS APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN BUT APPEARS TO BE RAMPED UP NOW, THE TARGETED BANNING OF TIRLT BY BLACK AUTHORS IN STATES AND SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES IN PART OF THESE CAMPAIGNS, SOME OF THESE POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS.

TALK ABOUT WHAT CRITICAL IMPACT THAT HAS ON -- AS WELL AS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH YOUR STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM.

IN TERMS OF TRYING TO PRESERVE THIS MATERIAL AND SHORE UP THESE AUTHORS.

>> WELL YES, OF COURSE.

I MEAN YOU KNOW, WHAT -- THE BANS AGAINST FOR EXAMPLE TONI MORRISON'S BOOK, THE BLUEEST DYE, WHAT THEENS BANS ARE, YOU KNOW, AMERICA IS, AMERICAN SOCIETY IS, I LIKE TO SAY AND JAMES BALDWIN SAYS, CONSISTENTLY FOCUSED ON INNOCENCE, THIS WILLNESS INNOCENCE, DENIAL OF CULPABILITY, DENIAL OF RESPONSIBILITY.

AND WHAT ARTISTS DO WHAT BLACK BOOKS DO PARTICULARLY AND ESPECIALLY BLACK WOMEN, BLACK MEAX BOOKS IS CHALLENGES IT, THAT WILLFUL INNOCENCE, WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, THAT'S VERY THREATENING AND VERY DAMAGE BUT IT IS ALSO CRITICAL FOR A SOCIETY TO EVOLVE.

AS CAROLINE WAS SAYING TO PROGRESS.

RIGHT?

SO THAT'S WHY BOOKS, BLACK BOOKS BIK BLACK AUTHORS ARE SO OFTEN BANNED BECAUSE THEY CHALLENGE THE PREVAILING NARRATIVE AND THEY WANT TO EXPAND THE NARRATIVE.

THAT'S WHY THE WHOLE 1619 PROJECT HAS BECOME SO FRAUGHT, RIGHT?

IT CHALLENGES THE EXISTING DOMINANT NARRATIVE AND THAT'S UNCOMFORTABLE FOR PEOPLE BUT IT'S VITAL AND IT'S NECESSARY.

THAT'S WHAT I DO IN MY COURTROOM.

THAT'S THE -- CLASSROOM.

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF LITERATURE.

JAMES BALDWIN SAYS AUTHORS ARE HERE TO DISTURB THE PEACE, THAT'S WHAT BOOKS DO.

IF A SOCIETY IS NOT GOING TO COLLAPSE UPON ITSELF.

>> Crossley: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAYBE I KNOW SOME OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE THIS NEXT GENERATION DON'T GET WHICH MAKES THE COLLECTIONS, CARMEN LIKE YOURS MORE VALUABLE IS THEY MAYBE NOT HAVE HAD TO HAVE THAT FIRST EXPERIENCE OF SEEING A BOOK BY A BLACK AUTHOR AND WHAT THAT DOES FOR YOU, IF YOU'VE NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE.

>> RIGHT.

>> Crossley: SO BOTH YOU AND KIM HAVE JUST START LING STORIES ABOUT THAT.

KIM I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU.

TELL ME ABOUT THE FIRST BLACK BOOK YOU SAW.

>> OH YEAH, I REMEMBER VERY CLEARLY.

I ALWAYS LOVED READING LIKE MANY WRITERS RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING AND I EVEN LOVED WRITING STORIES.

BUT IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME THAT I COULD BE A WRITER, WHEN ONE DAY MIGHT HAVE BEEN SEVENTH OR EIGHTH GRADE, WE WENT TO THE LIBRARY.

MAYA ANGELOU BEAUTIFUL'S FACE I KNOW WHY THE CAGED BIRD SINGS.

I WAS A VOCIFEROUS LEADER BUT I HAD NEVER READ A BOOK BY A BLACK MERN UNTIL THEN.

IT WAS REL REF REVELATORY.

IT IS A BRILLIANT BOOK AND SHE WAS WONDERFUL.

SO I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT MOMENT.

THAT IS LITERALLY THE MOMENT THAT SHOWED ME THAT I COULD BECOME WHAT I WAS R BECOME.

>> Crossley: CARMEN ADD TO THAT.

>> WELL, AND I'M TRYING TO SCRATCH MY HEAD AND REMEMBER THE VERY FIRST BOOK THAT WAS IMPACTFUL.

ONE THING THAT IS A FOND MEMORY WHEN I WAS ABOUT FOURTH AND FIFTH GRADE, ONE OF THE PARENTS OF MY FRIENDS STARTED A BOOK CLUB FOR US WHERE WE WOULD MEET AND EXCHANGE BOOKS AND TALK ABOUT THE BOOKS.

PERHAPS MY ERLTIEST MEMORY OF -- EARLIEST MEMORY OF AN IMPACTFUL BOOK WAS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL OR JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL.

I ATTENDED MARION ANDERSON JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL AND WE WERE REQUIRED TO STUDY ABOUT MARION ANDERSON.

SO ONE OF THE FIRST BOOKS THAT I WAS EXPOSED TO FORMALITILY IN CLASS WAS HER -- FORMALLY IN CLASS WAS HER BIOGRAPHY AND I WAS JUST STUNNED BY WHAT SHE HAD ACCOMPLISHED AND UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH SHE ACCOMPLISHED THOSE THINGS.

AND I WAS SOLD ON READING AND STORIES OF -- TO INSPIRE, AFTER THAT.

>> Crossley: MARITA.

>> WELL, I'M GOING TO BE VERY HONEST AND SAY THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER THE FIRST BLACK BOOK THAT CHANGED THINGS FOR ME.

BUT I DO REMEMBER THAT EVERY NIGHT MY FATHER TOLD ME BEDTIME STORIES FROM BLACK HISTORY.

SO THAT HE WAS THIS GREAT RACONTEUR WHO DID NOT HAVE A LOT OF FORMAL EDUCATION BUT WHO WAS A VORACIOUS REARED.

HE RED EVERYTHING.

HE READ TOLSTOY, HE READ J.A.

ROGERS.

HE WOULD COME INTO MY ROOM AND BEFORE I WOULD GO TO SLEEP WE WOULD TALK ABOUT FREDERICK DOUGLAS, WE WOULD TALK ABOUT SEW SOJOURNER TRUTH.

I FROM A VERY EARLY AGE WAS GIVING BLACK NARRATIVE AS SOMETHING THAT WAS IMPORTANT.

IT WAS VERY HARD FOR ME TO FIND BOOKS, MY FATHER HAD A COLLECTION OF BOOKS THAT CODIFIED THE KNOWLEDGE HE WAS GIVING ME AND I'LL NEVER FORGET IN ONE OF THE CLASSES I THINK IT WAS IN FIFTH GRADE AND THE TEACHER WHO WAS WHITE SAID THAT -- SHE DIDN'T ENSLAVE PEOPLE BUT SHE SAID THE SLAVES WERE HAPPY.

SO I RAISED MY HAND AND TOLD ME THAT MY FATHER HAD TOLD ME THAT THE SLAVES WERE NOT HAPPY AND THEY WANTED TO BE FREE.

AND SO I WAS RAISED ON BLACK NARRATIVE AND IT WAS REALLY KIND OF WONDERFUL BECAUSE IT WAS JUST VERY INFORMAL, IT WAS WOVEN INTO MY LIFE.

AND WHEN MY FATHER SHOWED ME BOOKS WRITTEN BY J.A.

ROGERS, THE GREAT DIDACTIC HISTORIAN, GREAT MEN OF COLOR AND OTHER BOOKS, IT WAS LIKE THIS SECRET THAT WE HAD THAT WAS OURS.

BUTTER I KNEW WAS VERY PRECIOUS.

CRS NOW CAROLINE YOU'RE IN A DIFFERENT GENERATION.

SO I WONDER IF THE -- IT HAD THE SAME IMPACT FOR YOU, YOUR FIRST BLACK BOOK OR BY A BLACK AUTHOR.

>> VERY DIFFERENT FOR ME.

BECAUSE I STARTED HIGH SCHOOL WHEN I WAS NINE YEARS OLD.

SO THE BOOKS I WAS READING WHEN I WAS MUCH YOUNGER WERE STORIES LIKE KIMVE ANTALA TWO KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL AND FIGURING OUT ABOUT LIFE.

AND ABOUT BLACK BEAUTY AND I REMEMBER LISTENING TO THESE STORIES IN MY CLASSROOM BUT I DON'T THINK I COULD MAKE THE CONNECTION TO MY LIFE YET, THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT.

I WAS ACTUALLY A TERRIBLE WRITER AND LEADER WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL.

BECAUSE I WAS BUSY READING SHAKESPEARE AND OTHER THINGS THAT AT FIRST COY NOT RELATE WITH BUT I EVENTUALLY DEVELOPED A LOVE FOR IT.

SO WHEN I TURNED 27 AND I WAS ALREADY A PROFESSOR I WAS KIND OF -- >> Crossley: CAROLINE I'M GOING TO HAVE TO -- WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

I'M GOING TO HAVE TO REST IT RIGHT THERE AND PICK IT UP IN THE DIGITAL PLATFORM PART OF THIS BECAUSE THIS IS THE END OF OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF THE SHOW.

I THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND NOW STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.

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