>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS - THE HUMAN COST OF WILDFIRES.

STORIES FROM INSIDE THE LARGEST FIRE IN STATE HISTORY.

>> Patrick: EVERYONE IS JUST KIND OF, LIKE, LOOKING OUT OVER THE HORIZON AT EVERY CLOUD AND WORRYING IF THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S GOING TO BRING THE FLOOD.

>> Gene: AND, WHY THE SECRETARY OF STATE IS SUING A COUNTY BOARD, SAYING COMMISSIONERS ARE DISENFRANCHISING THEIR OWN VOTERS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>> Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I’M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

THE STATE SUPREME COURT HAS ORDERED THE OTERO COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS TO CERTIFY LAST WEEK’S PRIMARY RESULTS, BECAUSE COMMISSIONERS FAILED TO DO SO LAST WEEK SAYING THEY DIDN’T TRUST THE TABULATORS USED, WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES, WE’LL EXPLAIN THE IMPLICATIONS THIS HAS MOVING TOWARDS NOVEMBER, AND HOW MONEY FROM A FORMER GOP CHAIRMAN IS INFLUENCING DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES.

IN WASHINGTON, SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH IS REPRESENTING NEW MEXICO IN A BIPARTISAN DEAL TO ADDRESS GUN VIOLENCE.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, WE’LL EXPLAIN THE KEY STICKING POINTS FOR CONSERVATIVES AND WHY SOME ON THE LEFT SAY IT DOESN’T GO FAR ENOUGH TO PREVENT MASS SHOOTINGS.

THE BLACK FIRE IN THE GILA NATIONAL FOREST HAS GROWN TO SECOND LARGEST IN STATE HISTORY AND INSIDE IS AN ENDANGERED SPECIES FIGHTING TO PROTECT ITS YOUNG.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, 'OUR LAND' EXECUTIVE PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS TALKS WITH A MEXICAN WOLF RECOVERY COORDINATOR ABOUT A PROGRAM THAT’S PROTECTING THAT SPECIES FROM EXTINCTION.

AS THE BLACK FIRE BURNS, THE HERMIT’S PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE REMAINS THE LARGEST EVER.

IT’S CAUSED SO MUCH DAMAGE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN VISITED SANTA FE OVER THE WEEKEND, THE FIRST SITTING PRESIDENT TO DO SO IN TWO DECADES.

LET’S GET TO THE LINE.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK, I'M JOINED BY THREE REGULARS.

WE HAVE TOM GARRITY FROM GARRITY GROUP PUBLIC RELATIONS.

JULIE ANN GRIMM IS ALSO WITH US TODAY.

SHE’S EDITOR AND PUBLISHER AT THE SANTA FE REPORTER.

AND HELLO TO REBECCA LATHAM, CEO AT GIRL SCOUTS OF NEW MEXICO.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

NOW.

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN MET WITH THE GOVERNOR, LEGISLATORS, AND EMERGENCY OPERATIONS WORKERS ON SATURDAY.

HE SAYS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD ASSUME THE FULL COST OF THE 320,000 ACRE HERMITS PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE, STARTED BY PRESCRIBED BURNS, AS YOU KNOW.

IT'S DEVASTATED A 500 SQUARE MILE CHUNK OF NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, AND THE PRESIDENT'S PLEDGE WAS THE BARE MINIMUM IN THE EYES OF THE GOVERNOR AND A LOT OF NEW MEXICANS.

AND TOM, LET ME START WITH YOU.

HOW DID YOU SEE THIS VISIT?

AND SPECIFICALLY, DID THE PRESIDENT SET THE RIGHT TONE HERE WITH HIS VISIT?

>> Tom: OH, I THINK HE SET THE TONE THAT WAS NEEDED, MOST DEFINITELY.

THERE WAS THE PROMISE OF REIMBURSEMENT TO THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

THERE WAS POSSIBLE RESOLUTION FOR LANDOWNERS WHO ARE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, CAUGHT IN THAT LIMBO OF ONLY HAVING 75% OF THEIR LOSSES REIMBURSED.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I THINK WHAT THIS DID WAS, IT HELPED TO CLOSE A NARRATIVE THAT WE REALLY NEEDED TO MOVE ON FROM THIS ACTIVE FIRE SEASON, EVEN THOUGH IT'S STILL VERY ACTIVE.

THESE TWO FIRES STARTED BY A PRESCRIBED BURN AND A PILE BURN ENDED UP, YOU KNOW, REALLY CAPTURING THE ATTENTION AND DEFINING IN SOME RESPECTS THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO FOR A TIME.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WONDERING ABOUT TRAVEL, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, WHEN IN ACTUALITY THIS IS A VERY REMOTE AREA AND A LOT OF GREAT SMALL TOWNS THAT WERE IMPACTED.

BUT I THINK IT WAS THE NEEDED TONE THAT THE PRESIDENT SET TO HELP KIND OF CLOSE THIS NARRATIVE OF RESPONSIBILITY THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO TAKE.

>> Gene: YOU KNOW, JULIE ANN, THE PRESIDENT SAID HE SAW THE DEVASTATION FROM THE AIR ON HIS WAY IN, ADDING THAT WILDFIRES HAVE DAMAGED AN ASTOUNDING AMOUNT OF LAND SAYING, AND YOU SAW THE QUOTE, THAT IT LOOKED LIKE A MOONSCAPE.

THERE'S BEEN SOME CRITICISM THAT THEY WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN THE PRESIDENT ON THE GROUND ACTUALLY TAKING A LOOK.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO YOU, OR TO FOLKS YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN TALKING TO ABOUT THIS?

>> Julie Ann: YES.

I THINK THAT DESPITE THE TONE OR THE OPTICS OF THIS VISIT, THIS VISIT WASN'T REALLY FOR THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO.

START OFF WITH THE FACT THAT THE ONLY MEDIA WHO WERE ALLOWED IN THE ROOM WAS THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

THEY WERE ASSIGNED TO BE THE POOL, AND WHILE THEY WERE COOPERATIVE AND PROVIDED POOL INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE PAPER IN LAS VEGAS CLOSEST TO THE FIRE, THE SANTA FE REPORTER, THE RIO GRANDE SUN, WE WEREN'T INVITED.

WE ASKED, WE BEGGED, WE GOT MAD, DIDN'T DO ANY GOOD.

I FINALLY GOT AN E-MAIL FROM THE WHITE HOUSE THIS MORNING THAT SAID, OH, THE REASON FOR THAT WAS COVID, WHICH I THINK IS DISINGENUOUS CONSIDERING THAT THE PRESIDENT MET WITH 60 PEOPLE IN A ROOM IN SANTA FE.

AND I DO THINK THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE AFFECTED BY THIS FIRE WOULD HAVE MUCH MORE APPRECIATED SEEING THE PRESIDENT ON THE GROUND WITH A LITTLE SOOT ON HIS SHOES, RATHER THAN LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW OF AIR FORCE ONE.

HE'S NOT THE ONLY PRESIDENT TO BE CRITICIZED FOR SHOWING UP TO A DISASTER AND JUST LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW.

BUT I DO THINK THAT THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO WOULD HAVE APPRECIATED ALL OF THE GESTURE, AND I THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SUBJECT TO A LITTLE LESS CRITICISM THAT IT WAS INTENDED AS A CAMPAIGN SUPPORT FOR MICHELLE LUJAN-GRISHAM IF THEY HAD BEEN MORE OPEN TO THE MEDIA AND TO THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

I'D FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE MEDIA ACCESS.

THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT, ESPECIALLY FOR THE PAPERS THAT ARE RIGHT ON THE DOORSTEP OF THIS, OR IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

THERE'S SOMETHING KIND OF BIZARRE ABOUT THAT, ACTUALLY.

REBECCA, I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR TAKE ON THIS, AS WELL.

COULD THE PRESIDENT HAVE JUST REACHED OUT JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE, JUST A LITTLE BIT CLOSER?

I UNDERSTAND HE MET WITH FAMILIES BEHIND THE SCENES, BUT WHAT DOES THAT REALLY DO FOR ANYBODY BEHIND THE SCENES?

>> Rebecca: I THINK TO ECHO THE EARLIER POINT, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO SMELL IT.

YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO, LIKE, FEEL IT AND TOUCH IT AND ACTUALLY MEET WITH THOSE RESIDENTS ON THAT LAND THAT HAS BEEN PASSED DOWN GENERATION TO GENERATION THAT IS NOW DECIMATED, BECAUSE I CAN SEE SOMETHING AND SAY, WOW, THAT IS LIKE REALLY IMPORTANT, I'M GOING TO FIGHT FOR IT.

BUT IF I FEEL IT, TOUCH IT, TASTE IT, YOU KNOW, HE'S GOING TO FIGHT THAT MUCH HARDER TO GET THOSE FAMILIES WHAT THEY DESERVE.

IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH, NO AMOUNT OF MONEY.

EVEN IF THEY CAN GET FULL CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT TO GIVE 100% BACK TO THOSE FAMILIES WHO ARE ALREADY FACING SUCH STRUGGLES, IT'S STILL NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BRING THOSE HOMES BACK.

YOU CAN'T BRING THOSE MEMORIES BACK.

AND I JUST THINK, LIKE, IT WOULD HAVE GONE EVEN THAT MUCH FARTHER IF HE WOULD HAVE JUST MADE A PIT STOP SOMEWHERE A LITTLE CLOSER TO THE ACTION.

>> Gene: REBECCA, LET ME STAY WITH YOU ON THIS ONE.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS LOOKING TO DO HERE AND WHAT HE'S LOOKING TO PAY FOR, SO TO SPEAK.

BUT WAS HE CLEAR ENOUGH ON THIS 100% THING?

IT SOUNDS LIKE HE WANTS TO PAY FOR ALL THE MACHINATIONS THAT GO INTO FIGHTING FIRES, AND I'M NOT SURE I REALLY HEARD ABOUT MAKING PEOPLE WHOLE AT 100%.

HOW DID YOU HEAR THAT?

>> Rebecca: SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT HE SIGNED DOES GIVE FULL AUTHORITY, 100%, TO REIMBURSE THE GOVERNMENT COSTS.

THE COSTS OF THE FIREFIGHTERS, THE COST OF THE TRAFFIC CONTROL TO EVACUATE FOLKS, LIKE THOSE GOVERNMENT COSTS.

BUT I DON'T THINK -- LIKE, FEMA CAN'T DO MORE FOR INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT CONGRESSIONAL ACTION.

SO I THINK HE DID DO THE MOST THAT HE IS CAPABLE OF DOING, BUT DOES THAT REALLY MATTER TO NEW MEXICANS?

I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED THE HELP, THEY'RE GOING TO NEED MORE.

>> Gene: YEAH.

TOM, HE EDGED UP ON THE EDGE OF IT, TALKING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF SOME OF THE FAMILIES AND ALL THAT KIND OF A THING, BUT PERHAPS THERE WAS ANOTHER STEP THERE.

BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS, AS WELL.

WE'RE ALL LOOKING FOR WAYS TO WRAP OUR ARMS AROUND THE PROBLEM THAT HAS SO MANY VARIABLES FROM CLIMATE CHANGE TO ISSUES WITH FOREST MANAGEMENT, CERTAINLY.

DID THE PRESIDENT OFFER ENOUGH IN TERMS OF POTENTIALS SOLUTIONS TO THIS ISSUE?

>> Tom: NO, IS THE SHORT ANSWER.

I DIDN'T HEAR SOLUTIONS.

I DID HEAR WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID AS FAR AS MAKING THE STATE WHOLE AND GOVERNMENT WHOLE.

YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS PROPOSED LEGISLATION THAT WOULD PROVIDE THE SAME BENEFITS TO THE INDIVIDUALS AND COMMUNITIES THAT WERE IMPACTED, SIMILAR TO THE CERRO GRANDE FIRE THAT IMPACTED LOS ALAMOS AND OTHER COMMUNITIES.

BUT OUTSIDE OF THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE REALLY -- AND I DON'T THINK THIS NECESSARILY WAS THE TIME TO GET INTO POLICY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE VALUE OR WHAT HAPPENED AND STUFF WITH REGARDS TO THE PRESCRIBED BURNS AND THE PILE BURN.

SO I DON'T THINK -- I THINK THIS IS MORE OF A THERAPEUTIC VISIT AS OPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, LET'S ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES AND GET IT DONE.

AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS THE FIRST THAT I'VE ACTUALLY HEARD ABOUT THE RESTRICTED PRESS ACCESS, AND THAT'S QUITE DISAPPOINTING BECAUSE, YEAH, HUGE MISSED OPPORTUNITY BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION NOT TO ALLOW THE LAS VEGAS OPTIC, AND THE OTHER MEDIA IN THE AREA A CHANCE, INCLUDING THE SANTA FE REPORTER, AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE IN THE ROOM, BECAUSE THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES WHEN A REPORTER OR PHOTOGRAPHER IS ACTUALLY IN THE ROOM WITH THE PRESIDENT.

THAT'S COMMUNICATED.

AND I'M DISAPPOINTED AND SORRY TO HEAR THAT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

THE VIDEO OF IT JUST DIDN'T QUITE, FOR ME PERSONALLY, DIDN'T QUITE COME OFF.

THE SHOT WAS TOO PULLED BACK.

A LOT OF IT JUST DIDN'T WORK IN SO MANY WAYS.

JULIE ANN, LET ME KIND OF CIRCLE BACK TO SOMETHING.

THIS IS ABOUT FEMA AND FUNDING AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE WHOSE HOMES HAVE BEEN LOST OR DAMAGED.

NOW, YOU CAN APPLY ON THE FEMA WEBSITE, BUT WHAT I WANT TO GET AT IS THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION FROM REPRESENTATIVE TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ THAT WOULD OFFER FULL COMPENSATION FOR NEARLY ALL LOST PROPERTY AND INCOME LINKED TO THE WILDFIRE.

THIS, OF COURSE, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, IS GOING TO TAKE SOME CONGRESSIONAL HELP.

IN YOUR MIND, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE TO SATISFY FOLKS IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO?

>> Julie Ann: I MEAN, I HAVE TO AGREE THAT THE LEGISLATION IS GOING TO COME SHORT EVEN IF WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW ACTUALLY GETS PASSED BY CONGRESS.

YOU KNOW, I WAS READING A STORY THAT YASMIN KHAN PUT TOGETHER FOR KUNM ABOUT FOLKS WHO ARE PART OF THE LAND GRANT COMMUNITIES.

SO THIS IS LAND THAT WAS GIVEN TO PEOPLE DURING THE SPANISH GOVERNANCE ERA IN NEW MEXICO, WHICH SOME OF OUR VIEWERS FROM AFAR MIGHT NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

BUT THESE ARE PLACES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES.

THEY MAY HAVE A RESIDENCE OR A FAMILY HOME THAT'S NOT THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE.

AND SO FEMA IS BOUND BY THE FEDERAL LAW TO ONLY BE ABLE TO COMPENSATE -- IT HAS A LOT OF REGULATIONS, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THEM, THAT YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO GET THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF COMPENSATION FOR SOMETHING THAT'S IDENTIFIED AS YOUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE.

AND SO THESE ARE MULTI-GENERATIONAL PROPERTIES IN SOME CASES, AND SORT OF MAKING THAT STIPULATION, IT'S GOING TO MEAN THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT SORT OF MADE WHOLE IN THE PARLANCE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I THINK IT'S ALSO REALLY IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO RIGHT AWAY, AND THE ARMY CORP. OF ENGINEERS JUST YESTERDAY ANNOUNCED THIS CONTRACT WITH AN IDAHO FALLS CONSTRUCTION COMPANY WHICH IS GOING TO TRY TO BUILD SOME STRUCTURES TO PROTECT THE LAS VEGAS GALLINAS WATERSHED FROM THE FLOODING WHICH WILL COME WITH MONSOON SEASON.

SOME OF US HAVE -- I PERSONALLY GOT TO SEE THE SANTA CLARA FLOODING, THE AFTERMATH OF THE FIRE THAT REALLY AFFECTED THE SANTA CLARA FOREST LANDS, AND I THINK THAT IT'S VERY LIKELY, THE EXPERTS ARE SAYING, THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE SIMILAR OR MORE DETRIMENTAL FLOODING.

SO PROTECTING THE WATERSHEDS NOW AND USING THOSE FEDERAL CONTRACTORS ON A FAST TRACK TO GET THAT WORK DONE AHEAD OF THE RAINY SEASON IS REALLY IMPORTANT, AND I WAS HAPPY TO SEE THAT THAT IS HAPPENING.

>> Gene: I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, BECAUSE THAT'S THE NEXT STEP, OBVIOUSLY, IN ALL OF THIS, THE FLOODING DANGER.

SANTA CLARA WENT THROUGH THEIR FLOODING, OF COURSE, BACK A DECADE AGO AFTER THE CERRO GRAND FIRE, SO THEY'RE NO STRANGER TO THAT, EITHER.

THANKS TO THE PANEL FOR THEIR REACTION TO THE PRESIDENT'S VISIT.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION IN JUST ABOUT 15 MINUTES WHEN WE TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT SOME OF THE LOCAL RACES IN LAST WEEK'S PRIMARY, AND THE NEW LAWSUIT FROM THE SECRETARY OF STATE AGAINST OTERO COUNTY OFFICIALS.

>> Maggie: WOLVES DO ELICIT A STRONG EMOTIONAL RESPONSE IN PEOPLE, AND I THINK THE BEST THING FOR WOLVES IN GENERAL WOULD BE TO JUST BE CONSIDERED LIKE ANY OTHER ANIMAL ON THE LANDSCAPE, YOU KNOW, LIKE A BEAR OR A MOUNTAIN LION.

BUT THAT'S JUST NEVER BEEN HOW WE, AS HUMANS, SEE WOLVES.

>> Gene: SO MUCH OF WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE HERMIT’S PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE COMES FROM REPORTERS WHO SHOW UP DAY AFTER DAY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES AFFECTED BY THE FIRE.

THERE ARE MANY REPORTERS ACROSS NEW MEXICO DOING THIS IMPORTANT WORK, AND THIS WEEK 'OUR LAND' EXECUTIVE PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH PHOTO JOURNALIST ADRIA MALCOLM AND SOURCE NEW MEXICO REPORTER PATRICK LOHMANN.

>> Laura: YOU'VE BOTH BEEN COVERING THE HERMIT’S PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE.

WE KNOW THIS FIRE IS A MONSTER FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

PATRICK, LET'S START WITH YOU.

WHAT STORIES CAN YOU JUST NOT SHAKE OFF RIGHT NOW?

>> Patrick: I THINK THAT OUR ORGANIZATION HAS, YOU KNOW, REALLY MADE AN EFFORT AT MEETING PEOPLE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

WE SPENT A LOT OF LAST WEEK UP NEAR MORA AND THE AREA NEAR THERE, AND I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS WOMAN, FIONA SINCLAIR.

SHE LOST A LOT OF HER LIVELIHOOD AND IS ALREADY, YOU KNOW, LOOKING TOWARD THE NEXT THREAT.

SHE'S KIND OF TELLING EVERYBODY WHO WILL LISTEN ABOUT THE THREAT OF A MASSIVE DEBRIS FLOW WITH A FLOOD.

SHE FEELS -- I DON'T KNOW MUCH EXACTLY ABOUT WHAT SHE'S SAYING, THE PARTICULARS, BUT HER ENERGY IS REALLY AMAZING.

SHE'S IN THESE E-MAIL THREADS WITH ANYBODY: JOURNALISTS, PUBLIC OFFICIALS, COUNTY COMMISSIONERS FROM MORA, AND THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

SHE ASKED A QUESTION OF MARTIN HEINRICH, ACCORDING TO HER, AND SHE'S JUST SORT OF THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE OUT THERE.

SO I JUST THINK THERE'S A LOT OF WORRY.

EVERYONE IS JUST KIND OF LOOKING OUT OVER THE HORIZON AT EVERY CLOUD AND WORRYING IF THAT'S THE ONE THAT'S GOING TO BRING THE FLOOD.

SO I GUESS THAT'S JUST SOMETHING I HADN'T REALLY ANTICIPATED GOING INTO THIS, THAT THERE WOULD BE THIS CASCADE OF HORRORS, YOU KNOW.

>> Laura: YEAH, YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN DOING GREAT WORK.

I'VE BEEN ENJOYING SHAUN GRISWOLD'S REPORTING, ALSO.

ADRIA, YOU ARE AN INCREDIBLE VISUAL STORYTELLER, AND I FEEL LIKE WHEN I LOOK AT THE PHOTOS YOU TAKE OF PEOPLE, I FEEL LIKE I'VE KNOWN THEM MY WHOLE LIFE.

I'VE SEEN SOME OF YOUR IMAGES WHERE PEOPLE ARE STANDING ON THEIR LANDS THAT HAVE JUST BEEN BURNED, DESTROYED.

WHAT'S THAT LIKE FOR YOU TO DO THAT, TO SHARE THAT MOMENT WITH PEOPLE?

>> Adria: WELL, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE SEE THE DEVASTATION.

AND IT'S -- YOU KNOW, JOURNALISM CAN BE EXTRACTIVE IN A LOT OF WAYS, PARTICULARLY IN TIMES OF CRISIS.

AND IN THE WAKE OF THE IMMEDIATE TRAUMA HAPPENING, WHEN YOU'RE IN THOSE SPACES WITH THOSE PEOPLE, THEY'RE RELIVING THAT TRAUMA.

THEY'RE LITERALLY SIFTING THROUGH REMANENTS OF THEIR HOMES, AND SO IT CAN BE REALLY CHALLENGING FOR ME TO BALANCE WHEN I'M MAKING AN IMAGE AND WHEN I'M JUST BEING PRESENT AND LISTENING.

THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN CHALLENGING FOR ME BECAUSE IT CAN FEEL INVASIVE SOMETIMES, TOO, AND YOU HAVE TO RESPECT THAT VULNERABILITY THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO GIVE YOU, THAT TRUST, BUT ALSO DOING YOUR JOB AS A REPORTER AND MAKING THOSE IMAGES.

SO IT'S A BALANCING ACT OF SORTS.

AND THEN KNOWING THAT THEY'RE RELIVING TRAUMA, SO MAKING ROOM FOR THOSE EMOTIONS THAT COME UP IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

>> Laura: SO SPEAKING OF DOING YOUR JOB AS A REPORTER, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO LINE UP INTERVIEWS WITH THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE SINCE EARLY APRIL, AND I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM THE DAILY BRIEFINGS WHERE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THE FIREFIGHTERS ARE GIVING THESE BRIEFINGS THAT ARE SUPER HELPFUL.

BUT ACTUALLY LIKE TRYING TO TALK WITH THE FOREST SERVICE OFFICIALS AND ASK THEM QUESTIONS AND HAVE ANSWERS.

AND I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN IN TERMS OF TRANSPARENCY FROM THE FOREST SERVICE AND ACCESSIBILITY TO THEIR EXPERTS.

>> Patrick: THEY HAVEN'T BEEN GREAT.

I UNDERSTAND FULLY, ESPECIALLY WITH A FORENSIC TYPE INVESTIGATION THAT MIGHT BE REQUIRED INTO THE ORIGINS OF THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE OR THE CALF CANYON FIRE, THAT THAT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME, AND I'M WILLING TO WAIT FOR THAT.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, IT DOES SEEM VERY MUCH THAT THERE ARE CONTEMPORANEOUS OR EVEN DOCUMENTS THAT THEY CREATED PRIOR TO THIS THAT THEY COULD BE RELEASING, JUST TO GIVE US A SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, FOR THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE IN PARTICULAR, WHAT PUT THE CREW THAT DAY ON THAT MOUNTAIN.

SO THAT'S A LOT OF THE REPORTING I'VE BEEN DOING, HAS JUST BEEN TRYING TO KIND OF RETRACE SOME OF THOSE STEPS WITH THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE.

LUCKILY THROUGH THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OR THROUGH KIND OF HISTORICAL OTHER AGENCIES, THEY'VE KIND OF DONE SOME OF THE LEGWORK TO GIVE US SOME CONTEXT.

BUT AS YOU MIGHT HAVE READ OR SEEN, A GROUP OF MORE RESIDENTS HAVE SUED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO QUICKEN THE RELEASE OF THE PRESCRIBED BURN PLAN.

I DID GET ONE DOCUMENT ALONG WITH A COUPLE OF OTHER FOLKS LAST WEEK THAT WAS CREATED IN 2018, THAT AT LEAST OUTLINED SOME OF THE BROADER STRATEGY AROUND PRESCRIBED BURNS IN THAT AREA, BUT THERE WAS NOTHING THAT WAS PRODUCED IN THE LEAD-UP TO THAT BURN THAT WOULD GIVE US ANY INSIGHT ABOUT WHY THEY DETERMINED THAT IT WAS SAFE, OR WHO OVERSAW THAT, OR WHETHER THEY HAD A TECHNICAL OR OUTSIDE REVIEW, WHICH WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT KIND OF BECAME A BEST PRACTICE AFTER THE CERRO GRANDE FIRE IN 2000.

SO I THINK THAT THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT THEY COULD BE DOING, BECAUSE IN THE MEANTIME, THERE ARE A TON OF, YOU KNOW, JUST THEORIES ABOUNDING ABOUT THIS CAUSE.

I MEAN, I'M SURE THAT ADRIA HAS HEARD A TON OF THAT STUFF BEING OUT THERE, TOO.

THERE'S JUST CONSPIRACIES UPON CONSPIRACIES OUT THERE, AND I THINK THAT'S JUST BECAUSE OF THE VACUUM THAT THE FOREST SERVICE IS CREATING.

I'LL TELL YOU ONE THING WE HAD TO DO.

THE FOREST SERVICE ANNOUNCED -- WELL, THE INCIDENT MANAGEMENT TEAM ANNOUNCED THAT THEY WOULD BE DOING DAILY BRIEFINGS IN LAS VEGAS AT 9:00 A.M.

SO I DROVE FROM ALBUQUERQUE ONE MORNING JUST TO ASK ONE QUESTION, WHICH WAS, DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE -- AND THIS IS BEFORE WE KNEW ABOUT THE CALF CANYON.

BUT, DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE COULD HAVE CAUSED THE CALF CANYON FIRE, JUST BECAUSE THAT WAS BEING SPECULATED ABOUT.

NO ONE REALLY KNEW ABOUT THE SCIENCE OR WHATEVER.

IT SEEMED LIKE A LONG SHOT, BUT I HAD A CHANCE TO ASK THE ONE QUESTION, AND HE ANSWERED, NO.

AND IT'S COME OUT SINCE THEN THAT THAT, IN FACT, THAT WASN'T THE CASE.

AND SHORTLY AFTER THAT, THEY STOPPED DOING THOSE DAILY BRIEFINGS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S RELATED, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TECHNICAL, ABOUT FIRE BEHAVIOR AND THE EXPECTATIONS THAT DAY, BUT I THINK IT JUST KIND OF SHOWS THAT IT'S VERY -- THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO LIMIT INFORMATION IN SUCH A WAY THAT IS ACTUALLY HARMFUL, I THINK, WHILE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY REACTING TO THE CRISIS ITSELF.

>> Laura: YEAH, IT'S BEEN FRUSTRATING BECAUSE WE CAN BE RESPECTFUL OF THE INVESTIGATION, TO BE SURE, AND UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE VERY BUSY, BUT I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE SO MANY BIG PICTURE QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE WANT ANSWERS TO, AND THERE ARE SO MANY EXPERTS ON THE STAFF WHO COULD ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.

BUT IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THERE'S A PRETTY STRICT FIRE WALL.

IN TERMS OF ACCESSING THE FIRE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY YOU WANT TO BE SAFE AND ALL OF THAT, BUT HOW HAS THAT BEEN IN YOUR EXPERIENCE?

>> Adria: IT'S BEEN PRETTY CHALLENGING AND A LITTLE FRUSTRATING.

I'D NEVER COVERED A FIRE BEFORE THIS, AND SO KIND OF LEARNING HOW TO NAVIGATE EVACUATION ZONES AND KIND OF WORK AROUND THAT, YOU'RE KIND OF ALWAYS ON THE PERIPHERY TO TELL THE STORY.

AND SO I THINK WE SEE THIS INCREDIBLE IMAGERY THAT COMES FROM CALIFORNIA WHERE IN 1986, IT WAS PASSED THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE THAT INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE JOURNALISTS CAN RE-ENTER EVACUATION ZONES FOR COVERAGE, SO THAT THEY AREN'T PROHIBITED FROM RE-ENTERING.

SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE ABLE TO HAVE THESE INCREDIBLE VISUALS.

SO HERE -- MOST STATES, IT'S ALL OVER THE BOARD IN TERMS OF ACCESS, AND FROM SPEAKING TO OTHER PHOTOJOURNALISTS WHO HAVE COVERED OTHER FIRES IN THE PAST, THEY HAVE FOUND WAYS AROUND IT, EITHER THROUGH TAKING CLASSES OR JUST HANGING AROUND LONG ENOUGH WHERE THERE ARE CREWS THAT THEY EVENTUALLY LET YOU ON A TRUCK AND TAKE YOU IN.

I HAVEN'T BEEN AFFORDED THAT LUCK JUST YET.

AND SO YOU WILL KIND OF MEET A FISH & WILDLIFE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT'S KIND OF GUARDING THE EVACUATION ZONE, AND EVEN THOUGH THE SMOKE IS FROM MILES AND MILES AWAY, YOU STILL CAN'T GET ANY CLOSER.

OR WHEN YOU ASK FOR AN ESCORT -- I DID GET ONE ESCORT IN THE EVACUATION ZONE FROM THE FOREST SERVICE.

IT WAS ME AND OTHER MEDIA THERE.

YOU STILL AREN'T GETTING REALLY TO FIRE LINES.

AND I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE DAY FOR THEM, AS WELL, WHAT THE FIRE BEHAVIOR IS LOOKING LIKE SO THAT YOU'RE NOT IN DANGER.

BUT IT'S STILL REALLY PROHIBITIVE, AND SO I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THERE'S A WAY WITHIN THE STATE THAT WE COULD START TO LOBBY FOR ACCESS FOR JOURNALISTS IN THESE EVACUATION ZONES.

OREGON THIS YEAR PASSED A LAW THAT REQUIRES JOURNALISTS TO BE ESCORTED, BUT THEY CAN'T BE GIVEN A HARD NO, BASICALLY.

SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING FROM A JOURNALIST'S PERSPECTIVE.

THERE ARE LOTS OF PHOTOGRAPHS FLOATING AROUND ON FACEBOOK AND ONLINE THAT ARE INCREDIBLE PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT THEY'RE BEING MADE BY, SAY, DOT WORKERS OR OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE PROVIDING SUPPORT FOR THE FIRE.

BUT IT'S SAD TO ME THAT A JOURNALIST ISN'T ALLOWED BEHIND THOSE FIRE LINES, AS WELL, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THE DEVASTATION AS ITS HAPPENING.

I THINK THOSE VISUALS CAN REALLY IMPACT PEOPLE'S PERCEPTIONS, AND WHEN YOU SEE FIRSTHAND WHAT'S HAPPENING, I THINK THAT IT REALLY INFLUENCES PEOPLE'S PERCEPTIONS AND INFORMS THEM.

SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO WORK ON.

>> Laura: PATRICK, YOU'VE BEEN WRITING A LOT ABOUT FEMA AND DISASTER AID.

WHAT DO YOU THINK PEOPLE NEED TO MOST UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT PROCESS, WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

>> Patrick: I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THE LIMITATIONS, ESPECIALLY THOSE DIRECTLY AFFECTED, BUT ALSO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S BEEN SORT OF THIS CONTINUING ARTIFICIAL BARRIER IMPOSED FOR 30% OF APPLICANTS, WHICH IS AN INITIAL DENIAL BASED ON INSUFFICIENT RECORDS OR ANY NUMBER OF THINGS, BUT EVERYBODY I'VE TALKED TO AT FEMA HAS JUST SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN APPEAL, AND THEY HAVE 60 DAYS TO DO THAT.

AND IT SOUNDS LIKE AT LEAST ON THE PHONE WHEN I TALK TO FEMA FOLKS, THEY SAY, WE'RE HAPPY TO WORK WITH PEOPLE AS MUCH AS IS NEEDED.

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED LETTER.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE EXISTENCE OF THIS AUTOMATED DENIAL PROCESS HAS COME UNDER QUESTION, AND MAYBE BECAUSE IT DOES DEMORALIZE FOLKS FROM APPLYING.

BUT I THINK THAT IF THERE'S ANYBODY WATCHING THIS WHO HAS GOTTEN A DENIAL FROM FEMA, I THINK THAT FEMA WOULD LIKE YOU TO KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT REALLY A DENIAL AND YOU SHOULD JUST KEEP ASKING AND VISIT THE DISASTER RECOVERY CENTER, OR CALL THEM UP.

BUT I THINK, AS WE'RE ALL KIND OF WAITING TO SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN FEDERALLY OR WITH ANY OF THESE PENDING LAWSUITS, THIS IS JUST NOT NEARLY ENOUGH MONEY TO FULLY COMPENSATE PEOPLE FOR THEIR LOSSES AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE AN ACT OF CONGRESS AND MAYBE MORE TO MEET, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF LIKE FINANCIAL COMPENSATION, THAT WHICH WAS PROVIDED IN 2000 AFTER THE CERRO GRANDE FIRE.

>> Laura: WHAT DO YOU THINK NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN TERMS OF HEALING FOR COMMUNITIES OR NORTHERN NEW MEXICO?

>> Adria: GOSH, I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO EVEN START, REALLY.

YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN, A LOT OF THEM, HAVE BEEN ON THEIR LAND FOR GENERATIONS, AND THEIR LAND BURNING ISN'T -- IT'S NOT REPLACEABLE TO THEM.

AND SO FOR THEM TO HEAL, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF TIME, I THINK.

I THINK IT'S A WOUND THAT WON'T HEAL FOR QUITE A WHILE JUST BECAUSE IT IMPACTS THEIR FAMILY'S LEGACY.

THEY HAVE THIS CONNECTION TO THE LAND THAT I DON'T THINK MANY UNDERSTAND.

AND THE GRIEF THAT'S IMPACTING THEM I THINK IS REALLY IMMENSE, PLUS THESE OTHER BARRIERS, PERHAPS, TO ASSISTANCE.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF TIME, AND HOPEFULLY THE AGENCIES THAT ARE IN PLACE DO COME THROUGH AND ARE ABLE TO SUPPORT.

BUT ON A GRIEF LEVEL, I COULDN'T IMAGINE HOW YOU EVEN START TO HEAL, OTHER THAN TIME AND COMING TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY FOR THEM.

AND I THINK PART OF THAT HEALING IS SHARING THEIR STORIES, TOO, AND CONTINUING AND FOLLOWING UP TO SEE WHERE THEY'RE AT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

LAST WEEK, WE REACTED TO THE BIGGEST STATE RACES IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION, BUT WE WANT TO FOCUS ON SOME OF THE INFLUENTIAL LOCAL OUTCOMES TODAY.

OTERO COUNTY HAS INSERTED ITSELF INTO THE ELECTION DISCUSSION AGAIN, TOO, PROMPTING A LAWSUIT FROM THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE.

WE'LL TOUCH ON THAT IN JUST A MINUTE HERE.

BUT LET'S START WITH SOME OF THE CONTESTED RACES IN THE STATE HOUSE.

TWO OF THREE DEMOCRATIC STATE LAWMAKERS IN LOCAL CONTESTED PRIMARIES PREVAILED.

THE ONLY ONE WHO DIDN'T IS STATE REP ROGER MONTOYA OF VELARDE.

FORMER STATE REP. JOSEPH SANCHEZ WON THE NOMINATION IN DISTRICT 40.

MR. SANCHEZ GOT SOME SUPPORT FROM OUTGOING HOUSE SPEAKER BRIAN EGOLF, WHO VOCALLY OPPOSED MR. MONTOYA LEADING UP TO THE ELECTION.

JULIE ANN, HOW DID THAT RELATIONSHIP SOUR?

SOMETHING SEEMED TO HAVE GONE OFF THE TRACK HERE A LITTLE BIT.

>> Julie Ann: YOU KNOW, GENE, I'M NOT SURE THAT I HAVE ENOUGH INSIGHT INTO KIND OF BOTH SIDES OF THAT RELATIONSHIP SOURING TO REALLY SAY.

>> Gene: FAIR ENOUGH.

>> Julie Ann: BUT I THINK FROM MY CONVERSATIONS WITH ROGER MONTOYA, I WOULD SAY THAT HE WAS REALLY UNWILLING TO PLAY THE LITTLE PARTY GAMES.

IF HE FELT LIKE HE NEEDED TO VOTE FOR OR AGAINST SOMETHING, HE DID THAT, OR IF HE FELT LIKE HE NEEDED TO SPEAK OUT, YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS A SMALL THING THAT HE JUST COULDN'T GO ALONG WITH.

THAT'S WHY HE GOT CROSSWAYS WITH PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

SO I THINK THAT WHOLE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER, YOU'RE NOT REALLY GOING TO KNOW UNLESS YOU'RE EITHER ONE OF THOSE GENTLEMEN.

BUT I DO THINK IT'S NOTEWORTHY, ALSO, ABOUT THIS RACE, THIS DISTRICT IS A BIG GEOGRAPHICAL DISTRICT.

IT'S LOT OF COLFAX COUNTY AND MORA COUNTY, SMALL PIECES OF RIO ARRIBA AND SAN MIGUEL COUNTIES, AND SO, OF COURSE, THESE VOTERS WERE UNDER DURESS, I THINK IS A GENTLE WAY TO SAY IT.

BUT THIS WAS ONE OF THE MOST HIGH TURN-OUT LEGISLATIVE RACES WE SAW IN NEW MEXICO DURING THE PRIMARY.

THERE WERE NEARLY 5000 VOTES.

AND WHILE THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE AN ASTOUNDING NUMBER OF VOTES, THERE WERE OTHER LEGISLATIVE CONTESTED RACES WHERE THERE WERE JUST OVER A THOUSAND VOTES.

SO YOU HAVE SANCHEZ WINNING BY ABOUT 700 VOTES; 687 VOTES, AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE SCOPE OF DEMOCRACY, THAT REALLY SHOWS YOU THAT EVERY PERSON WHO HITS THE POLLING PLACE MATTERS.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS THERE.

REBECCA, FORMER NEW MEXICO GOP CHAIRMAN AND OILMAN HARVEY YATES BACKED SEVERAL MODERATE DEMOCRATS IN RACES AGAINST MORE PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATES.

OF EIGHT CANDIDATES RECEIVING MONEY FROM MR. YATES-BACKED GROUPS, ONLY THREE WON, AND I'M HESITATING TO SAY ONLY THREE.

I MEAN, THREE WON, THAT'S NOT AN INSIGNIFICANT NUMBER, BUT WAS IT WORTH IT FOR MR. YATES IF YOU WERE SITTING IN HIS SHOES?

>> Rebecca: I THINK SO.

I MEAN, IN RECENT YEARS WE'VE SEEN BIG SHIFTS FROM REPUBLICAN INCUMBENTS IN THE HOUSE OUSTED BY VERY PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATIC FOLKS, AND IT'S KIND OF LIKE, HOW DO YOU EAT AN ELEPHANT?

ONE BITE AT A TIME.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO TRY TO SHIFT THE LEGISLATURE BACK, EVEN TO GET IT BACK TO JUST MODERATE, THEN YOU GOT TO JUST START INVESTING ONE SEAT AT A TIME.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING, TOO, THAT HE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT INVESTED, THAT REPRESENTATIVE LUNDSTROM ALSO INVESTED IN SOME OF THESE OTHER FOLKS.

FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME, WHO ARE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, I LOVE IT.

I DON'T LIKE EXTREMES, PERIOD, AND WE SAW HOW THE EXTREME FOR REPRESENTATIVE DOW DID NOT WORK OUT IN THE GUBINATORIAL PRIMARY.

I JUST DON'T LIKE EXTREMES, I WANT PEOPLE WHO CAN WORK TOGETHER.

AND SO THIS, I THINK, FOR ME PERSONALLY IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> Gene: REBECCA, LET ME STAY WITH YOU.

I'M SO GLAD YOU MENTIONED MS. LUNDSTROM AND THE KIND OF MONEY SHE DOLED OUT.

$5,000 TO MR. SANCHEZ, $3,000 TO MS. MARTINEZ, AS WELL AS TWO GRAND TO ROYBAL.

I MEAN, MONDAY TALKS AROUND HERE.

WHAT WAS BEHIND ALL THAT?

>> Rebecca: WELL, NOT ONLY DOES MONEY TALK, LIKE SHE TALKS.

DID YOU SEE THAT SHE SAID THAT THE REASON SHE INVESTED IN THOSE OTHER CANDIDATES IS BECAUSE SHE WAS TICKED OFF IN THESE RACES THAT THESE INCUMBENTS HAD NOT WORKED WITH HER ON THE HYDROGEN BILL.

SO SHE PUT $10,000 INTO RACES BECAUSE SHE WAS -- IT WAS LIKE SPITE MONEY.

SO THAT, I MEAN, THAT IS -- WOW.

>> Gene: IT IS KIND OF A WOW, IT REALLY IS.

REALLY, I'VE NEVER HEARD -- I'M SURE IT'S HAPPENED, BUT THIS LEVEL OF SUPPORT, TOM, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS, AND OTHER LEGISLATORS SUPPORTING IT, AND ACTUALLY THE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN, AS WELL.

I MEAN, THIS IS NOT SOME BACK BENCH PERSON.

SHE HAS A LOT OF INFLUENCE.

OVERALL, WHAT YOU'RE HEARING FROM MR. YATES AND WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS, ALL THIS MONEY SORT OF FLOATING IN AND THE RESULTS WE'RE SEEING HERE?

>> Tom: WELL, YOU KNOW, THE ONLY FLOWING IN I THINK SPEAKS TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BRING THE CONVERSATION BACK TO THE MIDDLE.

NEW MEXICO IS A MODERATE STATE, AND LATELY IT SEEMS AS IF NEW MEXICO HAS BEEN GOING TO THE EXTREMES ON EITHER SIDE.

AND THE NATIONAL NARRATIVES THAT WE SAW PLAY OUT WITH RESPECT TO ROE V. WADE, AS WELL AS WITH THE MASS SHOOTINGS, REALLY CALLED OUT THE EXTREMES IN BOTH PARTIES, THE PROGRESSIVES AND THE FAR RIGHT TRUMPERS.

SO YOU HAD BOTH OF THOSE WHO REALLY KIND OF DOMINATED THE TURN-OUT AND GOT THEIR RESPECTIVE CANDIDATES ELECTED, AND I THINK WE'LL SEE IN NOVEMBER WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS A WISE POLITICAL MOVE OR A GOOD EMOTIONAL MOVE FOR THE DIFFERENT FOLKS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE CLAMORING TO GET THAT MIDDLE CONVERSATION, IT REALLY GIVES A LOT MORE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT TO THE MODERATE.

AND SO NOW THE BIG QUESTION IS, ARE THE PROGRESSIVES AND THE TRUMPERS REALLY GOING TO FOCUS ON THEIR OWN BASE, WHICH OF COURSE THEY HAVE TO GET THEIR BASE OUT, OR ARE THEY REALLY GOING TO TRY TO REACH TOWARDS THE MIDDLE, AND THEN WHAT CREDIBILITY DO THEY HAVE IN THOSE PARTICULAR CASES.

SO WAS YATES SUCCESSFUL?

YEAH.

I MEAN, WITH REBECCA'S THOUGHTS, YOU BET.

YOU GOT TO DO ONE, TWO, THREE AT A TIME.

WERE THE PROGRESSIVES SUCCESSFUL?

ABSOLUTELY.

THE MODERATES GOT MAULED, AS JOE MONAHAN SAID.

SO YOU REALLY HAVE THE TWO EXTREMES, WHICH REALLY CARRIED THE NIGHT AS FAR AS THE NARRATIVE GOES.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE.

JULIE ANN, ANOTHER DEVELOPING HEADLINE, OF COURSE, I MENTIONED OUT OF THE PRIMARIES HAPPENING IN OTERO COUNTY.

TUESDAY, THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE COUNTY BOARD AFTER THE COMMISSIONERS THERE, THREE OF THEM, REFUSED TO CERTIFY LAST WEEK'S RESULTS, AND ON WEDNESDAY THIS WEEK THE STATE SUPREME COURT ORDERED THE COMMISSIONERS TO CERTIFY.

HOW MUCH DAMAGE IS DUE TO THE PERCEPTION OF AN OPEN DEMOCRACY IN THE STATE WHEN YOU HAVE OUR REPRESENTATIVES ON NATIONAL TELEVISION SHOWS ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT TALKING ABOUT THIS?

>> Julie Ann: I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERYBODY IN NEW MEXICO WOULD LIKE TO SAY OTERO COUNTY REPRESENTS OUR VALUES.

>> Gene: FAIR POINT.

>> Julie Ann: OR THAT THEY ARE A MARKER OF HOW SUCCESSFUL OUR DEMOCRACY IS, OR HOW AUTHENTIC AND HOW MUCH INTEGRITY OUR ELECTION PROCESS HAS.

I DON'T KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO HAVE EVEN BEEN TO OTERO COUNTY.

BUT I THINK CERTAINLY IT'S NOT GREAT FOR NEW MEXICO TO HAVE THE NATIONAL PRESS PAY ATTENTION TO THIS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, BACKWARD THING THAT HAPPENED.

THERE AGAIN, I THINK IT'S A HAT TIP TO SECRETARY OF STATE TOULOUSE-OLIVER WHO HAS HAD TO REALLY NAVIGATE THROUGH ALL OF THIS QUESTIONING ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE ELECTION PROCESS.

I WAS A REPORTER WHEN NEW MEXICO WENT BACK TO PAPER BALLOTS, AND IT WAS LIKE THIS HUGE DEAL, YOU KNOW.

WHEN THE HANGING CHADS WERE HAPPENING IN FLORIDA, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW GREAT OUR PAPER BALLOTS WERE IN NEW MEXICO.

NOW IT'S 2022, WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER THERE'S A CONSPIRACY WITH VOTING MACHINES.

BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WE STILL DO HAVE A VERIFIABLE AUDIT, AND THAT THIS IS ONE COUNTY OUT OF 33, AND THIS IS A COUNTY WHERE ONE OF THE THREE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IS REALLY ON A CRUSADE TO BE RECOGNIZED AS AN EXTREMIST.

>> Gene: ABSOLUTELY.

REBECCA, WE'VE JUST GOT A MINUTE-AND-A-HALF HERE AND I WANT TO GET BOTH YOU AND TOM IN REAL QUICK ON YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE OTERO COUNTY DEAL.

I MEAN, ANYBODY CAN JUST SAY, ANY COMMISSIONER CAN SAY AT ANY POINT, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE IN MY HEART THESE MACHINES ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING.

I'M WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO PROVE A POINT HERE ABOUT THESE MACHINES.

BUT IS THERE A POINT TO BE MADE BY DISTRUSTING THESE MACHINES?

WHAT'S BEING PROVEN HERE?

>> Rebecca: I THINK THEY'RE PROBABLY JUST STILL TRYING THE SAME DISCREDIT SOMETHING TODAY SO THEY CAN STILL GO BACK TO THE 2020 GENERAL PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME IS THAT OTERO COUNTY IS ONE OF THE FLIPS, WHERE I BELIEVE THAT THE MORE CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE WON BY A VERY NARROW MARGIN, WHICH WOULD MAKE ME THINK THAT THE OTERO COUNTY BOARD WOULD BE QUICK TO ACT AND CERTIFY THE ELECTION AND SAY, OKAY, NOW THE MORE CONSERVATIVE TRUMP GUY, NOW HE'S IN.

BUT THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT, SO I'M STILL PERPLEXED.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE.

I HAD NOT THOUGHT ABOUT THAT ANGLE, THAT'S INTERESTING.

TOM, REAL QUICK, YOUR THOUGHTS ON OTERO COUNTY.

AGAIN, FORGET THE BLACK EYE FOR NEW MEXICO.

WHO CARES ABOUT THAT.

JULIE ANN SORT OF EXPLAINED THAT.

BUT FOR THE COUNTY PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY, THEMSELVES, HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO FEEL ABOUT THIS, THAT THEIR VOTE JUST SUDDENLY DOESN'T COUNT LITERALLY AS FAR AS THEIR COMMISSION IS CONCERNED?

>> Tom: AND ALSO, THE COMMISSION IS GOING AGAINST THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE COUNTY CLERK.

THIS IS THE COUNTY CLERK'S, BUSINESS, IS CERTIFYING AND MAKING SURE THAT IT'S A FAIR ELECTION.

SO IT REALLY KIND OF RAISES THE NARRATIVE THAT WE'VE ALL BEEN TALKING ABOUT, HOW DO WE RE-ESTABLISH TRUST IN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS.

AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE SOLVED IN THE SHORT-TERM, THAT'S A LONG-TERM PLAY.

>> Gene: WELL, HOPEFULLY THE SECRETARY OF STATE, SHE WON'T HAVE TO KEEP GOING THROUGH THE ROUNDS OF TELEVISION, AMAZING.

THANK YOU TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THAT INSIGHT.

WE'LL MEET BACK HERE AT THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE IN LESS THAN TEN MINUTES TO TALK THROUGH THE POTENTIAL PROGRESS ON CAPITOL HILL WHEN IT COMES TO LEGISLATION ON GUNS.

BUT FIRST, THE IMPACT OF WILDFIRES ON WILDLIFE.

FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS, THE U.S.

FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE AND PARTNER AGENCIES HAVE REINTRODUCED MEXICAN WOLVES INTO THE UNITED STATES LANDSCAPE.

THIS YEAR, THE BLACK FIRE IGNITED IN THE GILA NATIONAL FOREST DURING DENNING SEASON, AND IT'S IMPACTING FOUR WOLF DENS THERE.

MAGGIE DWIRE IS DEPUTY MEXICAN WOLF RECOVERY COORDINATOR WITH THE SERVICE.

THIS WEEK, SHE TALKED WITH 'OUR LAND' EXECUTIVE PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS ABOUT THE MEXICAN WOLF AND THEIR RECOVERY EFFORTS.

>> Laura: HI MAGGIE.

>> Maggie: HI, IT'S NICE TO BE HERE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Laura: THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

I WANTED TO START RIGHT OFF THE BAT WITH THE BLACK FIRE, COMPARING MAPS OF WHERE THE BLACK FIRE HAS BEEN BURNING AND COMPARING MAPS OF THE WOLF RECOVERY AREA.

IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SOME OVERLAP THERE.

AND I WAS CURIOUS HOW THE BLACK FIRE IS AFFECTING OR POTENTIALLY AFFECTING THE WOLF POPULATIONS IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Maggie: WE KNOW THE BLACK FIRE HAS BURNED OVER AT LEAST THREE WOLF DENS AND CAME PRETTY CLOSE TO A FOURTH, AND THAT'S OF KNOWN WOLF DENS, AND DURING THE HIGH FIRE ACTIVITY TIME, ALL OF THE ADULT WOLVES DID LEAVE THE AREA.

BUT SINCE THE FAIR HAS MOVED THROUGH, THE THREE PACKS THAT IT DID BURN OVER THEIR DENS, THEY ARE ALL BACK IN THE DEN AREAS, WHICH INDICATES TO US THAT THEY'RE STILL TAKING CARE OF PUPPIES.

SO WE'RE OPTIMISTIC THAT WHILE THE FIRE DID BURN THROUGH THE AREAS, THAT THE PACKS ARE DOING OKAY.

>> Laura: SO THIS IS A DENNING TIME OF YEAR.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE KIND OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING, WHAT THEIR ACTIVITIES ARE?

>> Maggie: YEAH.

GENERALLY ABOUT APRIL AND MAY, WOLF PACKS WILL DEN.

THE FEMALES WILL HAVE THEIR PUPS AND THEY'LL STAY IN THOSE DENNING AREAS THROUGH KIND OF JUNE, MAYBE INTO EARLY JULY, AND BEGIN MOVING THE PUPS AROUND TO WHAT WE CALL RENDEZVOUS SITES.

BUT GENERALLY FROM APRIL THROUGH MAYBE JULY, MID SUMMER, WOLF PACKS ARE FOCUSED ON TENDING TO THEIR DENS AND RAISING PUPPIES.

>> Laura: AND HOW MANY PUPPIES DO THEY USUALLY HAVE IN THEIR DENS?

>> Maggie: AVERAGE LITTER SIZE FOR MEXICAN WOLVES IS FOUR TO SIX.

>> Laura: WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WILD WOLVES AND CAPTIVE WOLVES.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THOSE TWO AND KIND OF WHY WE NEED BOTH?

>> Maggie: WE EFFECTIVELY HAVE THREE DIFFERENT POPULATIONS OF MEXICAN WOLVES RIGHT NOW.

ONE IS BEING ESTABLISHED IN THE WILD IN MEXICO, ONE HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED IN THE WILD IN THE U.S., AND ONE IS THE CAPTIVE BREEDING PROGRAM.

AND ALL MEXICAN WOLVES WERE ERADICATED FROM THE WILD BY THE LATE '70s, AND WE RELIED ON THE CAPTIVE BREEDING PROGRAM TO SAVE THE MEXICAN WOLF FROM EXTINCTION.

SO BOTH THE U.S. WILD POPULATION AND THE MEXICO WILD POPULATION WERE ESTABLISHED USING RELEASES FROM CAPTIVITY.

SO THE GENETICS ARE ALL THE SAME, THE POPULATIONS ARE KIND OF MANAGED AS ONE, EVEN THOUGH THEY EXIST AS THREE SEPARATE POPULATIONS.

BUT THEY ARE INTERTWINED AT LEAST THUS FAR IN THE RECOVERY EFFORTS.

>> Laura: WHAT KIND OF NUMBERS ARE WE LOOKING AT IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THEN IN MEXICO?

>> Maggie: THERE ARE ABOUT 380 WOLVES IN CAPTIVITY, AND THAT'S DISTRIBUTED AMONGST JUST OVER 60 FACILITIES IN THE UNITED STATES AND MEXICO.

IT'S A BI-NATIONAL BREEDING PROGRAM.

THERE'S JUST UNDER 200 WOLVES, AT OUR LAST COUNT, FOR THE U.S. POPULATION, AND ABOUT 40 TO 50 ANIMALS IN THE WILD IN MEXICO.

>> Laura: AND I KNOW IT'S A LONG AND COMPLICATED HISTORY, BUT CAN YOU GIVE US KIND OF THE LITTLE OVERVIEW OF THE RECOVERY EFFORT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> Maggie: YEAH.

MEXICAN WOLVES WERE COMPLETELY ERADICATED FROM THE WILD BY THE 1970s, AND CAPTIVE BREEDING SAVED THE WOLF FROM EXTINCTION.

AND IN THE LATE '90s WE BEGAN RELEASING WOLVES INTO THE WILD IN ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO, AND THAT POPULATION, IT TOOK A WHILE TO BECOME ESTABLISHED, BUT IT HAS SINCE STARTED GROWING PRETTY WELL.

IN THE LAST SIX YEARS, OUR WILD POPULATION HAS DOUBLED, ACTUALLY.

SO THINGS ARE GOING REALLY WELL IN THE UNITED STATES SO FAR.

>> Laura: I FEEL LIKE IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THERE HAVE BEEN, OVER THE YEARS, THERE HAVE BEEN SORT OF POLITICAL CHALLENGES, THERE HAVE BEEN MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW IF SCIENTIFIC CHALLENGES IS THE RIGHT TERM, BUT CAN YOU KIND OF CHARACTERIZE HOW POLITICS AND SORT OF SOCIAL UNDERSTANDINGS OF WOLVES HAVE AFFECTED THIS ESSENTIALLY, LIKE, SCIENTIFIC PROGRAM?

>> Maggie: YEAH.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR POPULATION TREND, OR THE GROWTH THROUGH THE YEARS, IT REALLY DOES LOOK LIKE THERE'S SORT OF THREE DIFFERENT PHASES OF RE-ESTABLISHMENT IN THE WILD IN THE U.S.

IN THE EARLY YEARS, THE POPULATION GROWS AND THAT'S DURING A TIME WHERE WE WERE RELEASING A LOT OF WOLVES AND NOT REMOVING VERY MANY WOLVES, AND THEN THERE'S A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE THE POPULATION OSCILLATES BETWEEN 40 AND 60 ANIMALS AND DOESN'T REALLY SEEM TO BE GROWING MUCH, AND THAT REFLECTS A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE WE STOPPED RELEASING ANIMALS FOR THE MOST PART FROM THE CAPTIVE BREEDING PROGRAM TO THE WILD, BUT WE ALSO INCREASED REMOVALS QUITE A BIT.

WE GOT REALLY AGGRESSIVE IN HOW WE WERE MANAGING WOLVES THAT DEPRECATED ON LIVESTOCK.

AND AT THE END OF THAT KIND OF MANAGEMENT REGIMEN, WE SHIFTED TO WHERE WE WERE TRYING TO PROACTIVELY MANAGE LIVESTOCK DEPRECATIONS, INSTEAD OF REACTIVELY MANAGE THEM, SO WE TRIED TO GET AHEAD OF THEM AND STOP THEM FROM HAPPENING, AND WE STOPPED REMOVING SO MANY WOLVES AT THAT TIME AND OUR POPULATION HAS GROWN ESSENTIALLY EVER SINCE.

AND ONLY DURING THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE WE STARTED RELEASING WOLVES AGAIN FROM THE CAPTIVE BREEDING PROGRAM INTO THE WILD.

AND WE NO LONGER NEED TO RELEASE WOLVES TO GROW THE POPULATION, OR ESTABLISH IT, NOT IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE REASON THAT WE'RE RELEASING WOLVES NOW IS PURELY TO AUGMENT THE GENETICS OF THE WILD POPULATION.

>> Laura: I'M CURIOUS, IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY HAS OPINIONS OR FEELINGS ABOUT WOLVES.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE SPECIES THAT IT FEELS LIKE THERE'S STRONG OPINIONS AND FEELINGS ON MAYBE BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE.

I'M CURIOUS WHY YOU THINK THAT IS.

>> Maggie: WOLVES DO ELICIT A STRONG EMOTIONAL RESPONSE IN PEOPLE, AND I THINK THE BEST THING FOR WOLVES IN GENERAL WOULD BE TO JUST BE CONSIDERED LIKE ANY OTHER ANIMAL ON THE LANDSCAPE, YOU KNOW, LIKE A BEAR OR A MOUNTAIN LION.

BUT THAT'S JUST NEVER BEEN HOW WE, AS HUMANS, SEE WOLVES.

AND I TEND TO THINK THAT IT KIND OF LIES IN OUR OWN VALUES.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE WEST, SOME PEOPLE VIEW IT AS AN AREA THAT WE'VE CONQUERED AND WE LIVE IN AND WORK IN AND PLAY ON, AND SOME PEOPLE VIEW IT AS MAYBE THE LAST BIT OF WILDNESS OR NATURE THAT WE HAVE AND IT NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED AND PRISTINE.

AND PEOPLE PUT THE WOLF IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT KIND OF DIFFERENT SET OF VALUES.

AND VALUES ARE TOUGH.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYONE ELSE'S VALUES, NOR DO I WANT SOMEONE TO TRY TO CHANGE MINE.

BUT IT'S THE AREA, KIND OF THE GRAY AREA BETWEEN OUR DIFFERENT SETS OF VALUES THAT I THINK GIVES US THE SPACE TO WORK IN TO TRY TO ACHIEVE RECOVERY PROGRAMS LIKE THIS.

>> Laura: SO THE GILA NATIONAL FOREST IS OBVIOUSLY AN INCREDIBLE PLACE, AND I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOU THINK -- I'M GOING TO START THAT QUESTION OVER.

SORRY.

SO THE GILA NATIONAL FOREST IS AN INCREDIBLE PLACE.

WOLVES ARE A REALLY SPECIAL SPECIES.

I'M CURIOUS, DO YOU SEE A FUTURE WHERE THEIR POPULATIONS DON'T HAVE TO BE MANAGED, BUT THAT IT'S JUST A NATURAL PART OF THE LANDSCAPE AGAIN?

>> Maggie: I DO SEE A TIME AND A PLACE WHERE MEXICAN WOLVES WON'T HAVE TO BE MANAGED SO INTENSIVELY.

OUR POPULATION IS GROWING REALLY WELL IN THE UNITED STATES, AND ALL INDICATIONS ARE THAT WE'LL BE SUCCESSFUL IN RECOVERING THIS SPECIES.

THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS GENETICS, AND WE'RE DOING WHAT WE CAN TO TRY TO GIVE WOLVES THE BEST CHANCE THEY HAVE IN THAT WAY.

AND AS THE POPULATION GROWS AND AS IT EXPANDS, WE'LL BE ABLE TO GIVE MORE MANAGEMENT OVER TO THE STATES AND OVER TO THE STAKEHOLDERS AND THINGS, AND THE BEST THING FOR WOLVES EVENTUALLY IS FOR RECOVERY EFFORTS TO KIND OF BACK OFF AND LET THE SPECIES JUST BE WILD.

>> Laura: THANKS, MAGGIE, FOR TALKING WITH ME TODAY.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Maggie: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Gene: AFTER A STRING OF MASS SHOOTINGS IN OUR COUNTRY, A GROUP OF BIPARTISAN U.S.

SENATORS SAY THEY'VE REACHED AN AGREEMENT ON SEVERAL ITEMS RELATED TO GUN CONTROL.

THE GROUP INCLUDES TEN REPUBLICANS AND TEN DEMOCRATS, AMONG THEM SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH FROM RIGHT HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

LET'S BRING OUR LINE OPINION PANEL BACK FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION.

WE'LL GET TO THE SPECIFICS IN JUST A MOMENT, BUT LET'S START WITH A WIDE BRUSH.

TOM, HOW ENCOURAGING IS THIS STEP?

SHOULD WE BE EXCITED EARLY?

I MEAN, YOU'VE BEEN AROUND POLITICS A LONG TIME.

THIS THING HAS A LONG WAY TO GO.

THERE'S A LOT OF PUSHBACK OUT THERE, AS WELL.

HOW EXCITED SHOULD WE BE ABOUT IT?

>> Tom: WELL, I THINK THAT IT'S HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO SEE SOME KIND OF REFORM ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE.

IS IT SUBSTANTIAL?

NO.

THERE ARE FOLKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE THAT ARE REALLY NOT HAPPY UNLESS THEIR EXTREME ISSUES ARE INCLUDED.

BUT HERE'S WHAT I DO LIKE.

SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH IS INVOLVED AND HE'S A PART OF THE DECISION GROUP, AND HE'S KIND OF LIKE THAT UNICORN, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM.

HE'S AN AVID HUNTER, HE'S A NEW MEXICO SENIOR SENATOR, AND HE GETS THE ISSUE FROM ALL SIDES.

AND SO THE FACT THAT HE'S INVOLVED IS GOOD FOR NEW MEXICO, BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S GOOD FOR THE CONVERSATION AS A WHOLE.

>> Gene: REBECCA, HOW IMPORTANT WAS IT TO HEAR FROM SENATOR MITCH McCONNELL ON SUNDAY WHO SAID HE IS SIGNALING A TENTATIVE SUPPORT FOR THE DEAL?

HOW DOES THAT GOOSE THINGS ALONG HERE?

HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT?

>> Rebecca: I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, BUT TO ME IT WAS, MORE THAN IMPORTANT, IT WAS SURPRISING.

I WOULD NOT HAVE GUESSED THAT HE WOULD HAVE COME OUT ALREADY IN SUPPORT OF KIND OF THIS BIPARTISAN, BECAUSE THAT'S JUST NOT HIS JAM, TYPICALLY.

IT'S WHAT AMERICA WANTS, BUT THAT'S NOT WHO HE IS.

I HAVE BEEN ASKING MY HUSBAND -- AS WE DO, WHEN YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, YOU ASK.

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET THE OTHER OPINION.

SO I ASKED MY HUSBAND, BECAUSE HE IS AN AVID GUN ENTHUSIAST.

AND I SAID, YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE GOOD GUYS WOULD BE AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE, THE FRONT OF THE CHARGE, FIGURING OUT HOW TO GET THE GUNS AWAY FROM THE BAD GUYS, BECAUSE IT'S GIVING THEM ALL A BAD NAME.

SO I ASKED MY HUSBAND, LIKE, WHY AREN'T THEY DOING MORE?

WHY ARE THEY FIGHTING GUN CONTROL, COMMON SENSE GUN CONTROL?

AND HE ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH SOLUTIONS THAT I WAS NOT FAMILIAR WITH WITH REGARDS TO, WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING SO HARD TO KEEP ASSAULT RIFLES AS HUNTING RIFLES?

BECAUSE AN ASSAULT RIFLE WILL ACTUALLY OBLITERATE ANYTHING.

SO IF IT WAS FOR HUNTING, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY WOULD WANT.

AND SO I THINK, LIKE, THERE'S A LOT MORE THAT COULD BE DONE, A LOT MORE THAT WE CAN DO, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW, IT IS SOMETHING.

AND LIKE, GOOD FOR McCONNELL FOR STEPPING OUT AND SAYING THAT HE'S IN FAVOR OF SOME OF THIS BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT.

IT'S NOT HIS JAM TO COME OUT EARLY IN A PROCESS, THAT'S VERY INTERESTING THAT YOU POINT THAT OUT.

JULIE ANN, THE LEGISLATION OF COURSE HASN'T BEEN FORMALLY DRAFTED YET, THAT'S A FEW WEEKS OFF, BUT THAT GROUP OF SENATORS SAYS THE AGREEMENT CONTAINS RED FLAG PROVISIONS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FUNDING MEASURES FOR THOSE STATES THAT DO HAVE THEM, AND WE ARE ONE OF THEM AS YOU HAVE WELL REPORTED AT THE SANTA FE REPORTER.

IT'S ON THE BOOKS IN NEW MEXICO.

IS MONEY REALLY WHAT'S BEEN HOLDING US BACK ON THIS IDEA, OR ARE WE STILL PHILOSOPHICALLY IN A REAL SCRUM WHEN IT COMES TO THIS IDEA OF TAKING GUNS AWAY FROM PEOPLE THAT MIGHT BE A DANGER TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS?

>> Julie Ann: I THINK WE HAVE, AS NEW MEXICANS AND AMERICANS, WE'VE ASKED A LOT OF OUR COURT SYSTEM AND OF OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT PROFESSIONALS, AND NOBODY WANTS TO DO IT.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NOT REPORTED ON THIS LATELY IN SANTA FE, BUT WHEN THE LAW WAS PASSED, WE TALKED TO OUR LOCAL AGENCIES, AND IT WAS DESCRIBED AS THIS VERY CUMBERSOME AND DIFFICULT PROCESS.

AND A LOT OF TIMES, LIKE I THINK WITH THIS CONGRESSIONAL MEASURE THAT THE SENATE IS SUPPOSED TO HEAR, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.

YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE OF THE PROPOSAL, AND I JUST THINK I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT LANGUAGE.

YOU KNOW, BOTH KIND OF SIDES, OR ALL OF THE MANY SIDES OF THIS DEBATE ABOUT GUN SAFETY HAVE LIKE THEIR PREFERRED TERMS THAT THEY USE, THAT THEY THINK SORT OF LOAD THE DISCUSSION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, AND I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE ASSOCIATED PRESS HAS LONG HAD A PRETTY CLEAR PIECE OF GUIDANCE ABOUT THIS, WHICH IS THAT ALL WEAPONS ARE ASSAULT WEAPONS.

THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF A WEAPON, TO ASSAULT SOMEONE.

SO REALLY WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE ARE SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLES, THE ARs AND THE AKs THAT WERE ONCE PROHIBITED IN THE UNITED STATES FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

THOSE LAWS THEN SUNSETTED, AND CONGRESS HAS BEEN COMPLETELY UNWILLING TO REGULATE THEM, AND THEY ARE INCREDIBLY POPULAR.

AND THEY ARE NOT USEFUL FOR HUNTING, BUT THEY ARE REALLY USEFUL FOR KILLING OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

SO I DO THINK THAT JUST THE WAY WE DEFINE ALL THESE TERMS AND THE WORDS THAT WE USE ARE IMPORTANT.

I WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT.

>> Gene: I APPRECIATE THAT.

ABSOLUTELY THEY ARE IMPORTANT.

LANGUAGE IS EVERYTHING.

HEY, TOM, THE ENFORCEMENT OF THESE RED FLAG LAWS, FUNDING OR NOT, COULD ALSO BE A STICKING POINT IN SOME CASES.

YOU MIGHT RECALL, AND I'M SURE YOU DO, BACK WHEN THIS PASSED IN 2020, GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN-GRISHAM URGED SHERIFFS WHO WERE UNWILLING TO ENFORCE IT TO RESIGN.

AND SOME SHERIFFS IN COLORADO HAVE ALSO REFUSED.

HOW COULD WE AVOID THAT FROM HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY?

I COULD SEE A MOVEMENT, IF THIS STARTED TO GET SOME TRACTION.

I COULD SEE OTHER SHERIFFS RIGHT ACROSS THE COUNTRY DOING THE SAME THING AND REALLY GUMMING THIS WHOLE THING UP.

>> Tom: ONE OF THE FEW REASONS THAT I KEEP HEARING ABOUT WHY THERE ARE ENTITIES THAT DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE ENFORCEMENT IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.

THE BUDGET IS LOW.

SO YOU TIE THE HEFTY AMOUNT OF MONEY BEHIND IT AND SOME OTHER STRINGS, AND PERHAPS THAT WILL MOVE THEM.

I THINK THAT THE RED FLAG LAWS IS ONE ASPECT, WHICH IS REALLY STRONG.

I ALSO THINK THAT THE STRAW PURCHASING INCLUSION, AS FAR AS THIS PROPOSAL, WHICH MEANS THAT PERSON A CAN'T AFFORD A GUN, SO THEY ASK PERSON B TO BUY THE GUN FOR THEM, THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL IF IT WERE INCLUDED IN THE LEGISLATION AND THE LEGISLATION PASSED.

SO I THINK THAT THE RED FLAG LAWS AND A COUPLE OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS OF WHAT'S BEING DISCUSSED GENERALLY ARE GOOD, BUT YOU HAVE TO REALLY KIND OF PUT THAT MONEY BEHIND IT, I THINK, IN ORDER TO TAKE THAT ARGUMENT, ANYWAY, AWAY FROM DIFFERENT ENTITIES WHO USE THAT AS A REASON NOT TO ENFORCE THE RED FLAG LAWS.

>> Gene: REBECCA, OF COURSE WE'VE GOT A WAYS TO GO HERE, BUT THE DEAL STILL LEAVES OUT MEASURES THAT GUN ADVOCATES HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR FOR A LONG TIME.

IT DOES NOT REQUIRE BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR ALL GUN SALES, IT DOESN'T RAISE THE MINIMUM AGE TO BUY A GUN, THAT'S A BIG ONE, IT DOESN'T BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS, LIKE THE AR-15, AS JULIE ANN JUST MENTIONED.

AND SENATOR HEINRICH SAYS COMPROMISE IS NECESSARY IN THIS CASE.

IS THE PUBLIC READY FOR COMPROMISE HERE?

>> Rebecca: I THINK THE PUBLIC IS WAY BEYOND READY FOR COMPROMISE.

I WOULD HOPE -- YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE STATEMENTS THAT I READ THAT CAME FROM THE HOUSE GOP SPOKESPERSON SAYING THAT I THINK THE STICKING POINT OF, WELL, WE ARE WARY OF PASSING ANY LAWS THAT WOULD INFRINGE ON RIGHTS WHEN THIS WOULDN'T HAVE STOPPED THE SHOOTING IN BUFFALO, OR IT WOULDN'T HAVE STOPPED THE SHOOTING IN UVALDE.

IT WOULDN'T HAVE PREVENTED THESE SHOOTINGS.

BUT THEY'RE SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY TO MASS SHOOTINGS AND NOT ACKNOWLEDGING THAT A SHOOTING DOESN'T HAVE TO BE MASS TO BE HORRIFIC.

>> Gene: THANK YOU.

>> Rebecca: WITH THOSE RED FLAG LAWS, ESPECIALLY WITH THAT BOYFRIEND LOOPHOLE, WE SEE IT IN NEW MEXICO SO OFTEN, THAT ONE PERSON, OR TWO, OR A FAMILY, THEY'RE KILLED BECAUSE WE CAN'T ENFORCE THAT BECAUSE OF THE BOYFRIEND LOOPHOLE.

OR WE'RE NOT ENFORCING IT AS IS, AS IT STANDS.

SO I THINK WE REALLY HAVE TO PUSH OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO STOP GETTING HUNG UP ON, WELL, THIS PARTICULAR MASS SHOOTING, THERE WAS NOTHING THAT WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS.

ANY SHOOTING COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED, AND THEY NEED TO GET OFF THEIR KEISTERS AND FIGURE IT OUT.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE PANEL, AS ALWAYS.

THIS WEEK, BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS, SOME GOOD ONES, THAT WE COVERED HERE ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER, OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

FOLLOWING THE VISIT BY PRESIDENT BIDEN ON OUR WILDFIRE DAMAGE, I’M VERY SURPRISED HE DID NOT FIND A WAY TO ASSURE NEW MEXICAN LAND GRANT HOLDERS SPECIFICALLY THAT THEY WOULD BE MADE WHOLE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

IT WAS THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RECOGNIZES THAT COMMUNITY OWNED PROPERTY, WHICH MAKES UP MUCH OF THE LAND GRANT MAP IN NEW MEXICO, HAS A VALUE BEYOND THE CURRENT SYSTEM OF VALUING AND COMPENSATING INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERSHIP ONLY.

HE DIDN’T HAVE TO COME WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER IN HIS POCKET, OR A MESSAGE TO CONGRESS, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE, ACTUALLY, OR ANYTHING ELSE, BEYOND A SIMPLE COMPASSIONATE EXPRESSION OF UNDERSTANDING THAT THE LOSS LAND GRANT HOLDERS ARE SUFFERING GOES FAR BEYOND HOMES AND CARS.

IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY MISSED NOT JUST FOR THE PRESIDENT, BUT FOR US AS A STATE, AND AS A COUNTRY.

BECAUSE THERE IS A LONG OVERDUE POLICY DISCUSSION AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ON HOW THIS COUNTRY CAN FINALLY GET SQUARE WITH THE FAMILIES AND HEIRS IN NEW MEXICO OF LAND GRANTS.

NOW, WHAT CANNOT HAPPEN HERE IS A SCENARIO WHERE ONCE AGAIN SPECULATION, DIRTY FINANCIAL TRICKS, ETC., ARE VISITED ON FRUSTRATED, VULNERABLE FAMILIES WITH SHORT OPTIONS AFTER THIS BIG FIRE ON THEIR LAND.

IT’S A REGRETTABLE PART OF OUR HISTORY, BUT CURRENT ECONOMICS ARE SIMILAR TO THE BAD OLD DAYS.

IT'S COMPLICATED.

THINK ABOUT THE SITUATION IN TAOS COUNTY IN 2010 WHEN BOARD MEMBERS OF THE ARROYO HONDO LAND GRANT AND THE CRISTEBAL DE LA SERNA LAND GRANT FILED PAPERWORK IN TAOS COUNTY CLAIMING BACK, IN ALL, 42,000 ACRES OF LAND.

THE CASCADING EVENTS THAT FOLLOWED, INCLUDING HOMEOWNERS ON THE LAND WHO COULDN’T SELL OR GET INSURANCE BECAUSE THE DEED HAD BEEN CHALLENGED, AMONG OTHER REASONS, MAKE THIS A VERY COMPLICATED SITUATION.

BUT SURELY THERE IS A PATH HERE.

WHERE THERE'S CHAOS, THERE IS OPPORTUNITY, THE OLD SAYING GOES, NOW WE JUST NEED THE WILL.

CONSIDERING THE ENORMITY OF THE LOSS, THESE FAMILIES DESERVE IT.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK In Focus.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.