WHAT IF THE PRESIDENT CHOOSES TO IGNORE ORDERS FROM THE SUPREME COURT?

IS HARVARD'S INDEPENDENCE AT STAKE, AS THE SCHOOL'S NEW LAWSUIT CLAIMS?

AND DO WE STILL NEED TO GET TO SESAME STREET OR ARE OTHER ROUTES ON THE INFORMATION HIGHWAY JUST AS RELIABLE?

INSIGHTS FROM THE PROFESSORS COMING UP NEXTON IVORY TOWER ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING AND, WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE PROFESSORS JOINING ME AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT ARE: TARA ROSS OF ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE RICK FENNER OF UTICA COLLEGE AND ANIRBAN ACHARYA OF LEMOYNE COLLEGE.

OPPONENTS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S POLICIES ARE TURNING TO THE JUDICIARY TO TRY TO BLOCK THE PRESIDENT ON MULTIPLE FRONTS INCLUDING HIS EFFORTS TO DEPORT MIGRANTS TO DOWNSIZE THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE, IMPOSE TARIFFS, REDUCE WORLD AID.

THE LIST GOES ON.

TONIGHT, WE WANT TO DIG INTO TWO OVERARCHING QUESTIONS: FIRST SHOULD COURTS STAND IN THE WAY OF POLICY SOLUTIONS FROM A PRESIDENT THAT WAS ELECTED TO SOLVE POLICY PROBLEMS?

PERHAPS THE BIGGER QUESTION IS CAN COURTS ACT AS A CHECK ON THE PRESIDENT?

WHAT IF HE CHOOSES TO IGNORE A SUPREME COURT ORDER?

BUT FIRST, SHOULD COURTS STAND IN THE WAY OF PRESIDENTIAL INITIATIVES?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S CORRECT TO SAY SHOULD THEY BLOCK BECAUSE REALLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS JUDGING WHETHER OR NOT THE PRESIDENT'S ACTIONS ARE LEGAL.

AND THAT'S THEIR ROLE IN CHECKS AND BALANCES.

SO TO THE EXTENT THAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING SOMETHING THAT THEY BELIEVE IS ILLEGAL, IT IS REALLY THEIR RESPONSIBILITY AND THAT'S HOW OUR SYSTEM WORKS.

NOW, I THINK THE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS WHAT HAPPENS IF SUPREME COURT AND-- I THINK IT'S RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT BECAUSE MOST OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE GOING TO GET PUSHED THROUGH THE COURTS AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS RUN VERY QUICKLY TO THE SUPREME COURT LOOKING FOR RELIEF HERE.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY DO MAKE A DECISION THAT HE DOESN'T LIKE AND HE DEFIES IT?

IT'S-- IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT DURING HIS FIRST ADMINISTRATION, HE DID COMPLY WITH COURT ORDERS.

BUT CERTAINLY IT APPEARS THAT HE IS TALKING VERY DIFFERENTLY THIS TIME.

ULTIMATELY, THE SUPREME COURT CAN DO THINGS LIKE HOLD SAID ABOUT THE QUESTION OF WHETHER SHOULD, BUT THE POSITION OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS THAT THE PRESIDENT, AS DOES THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND ALSO THE JUDICIARY, HAS CERTAIN POWERS WITHIN OUR CONSTITUTIONAL SCHEME OF GOVERNMENT, AND THAT THE JUDICIARY IS STANDING IN THE WAY OF THAT, AND SO THAT IS WHY WE ARE ASKING THE QUESTION SHOULD COURTS BECAUSE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD NOT.

ANIRBAN, YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS COUNTRY WITH THE DIFFERENT BRANCHES, IT IS INEVITABLE, THE WAY OUR SYSTEM IS SET UP.

BUT WHAT IS NEW ABOUT THE REGRESSIVE RIGHT IS THE IDEA OF SENDING A HUGE AMOUNT OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS AND CONFLICTING ONES SO PEOPLE CAN'T REALLY KEEP UP IN TERMS OF WHERE TO LITIGATE, HOW TO LITIGATE AND HOW MUCH TO LITIGATE.

AND THAT IS CREATING A LOT OF CONFUSION.

TBOWT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, SO FAR, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ALSO MAYBE IN SOME BAD FAITH, HAS BEEN, IN SOME WAYS, HAS BEEN ABLE TO SAY HEY, WE ARE FOLLOWING THE COURT.

NOW WHAT CAN BE DONE?

OF COURSE CONTENT-- OF COURSE CONTEMPT IS ONE THING AND THAT'S UP TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

THE OTHER IS THE WRIT OF MANDAMUS WHICH IS AGAIN, COMPELLING SOMEONE TO-- AND THAT IS HOW THE JUDICIAL REVIEW, YOU KNOW WAS CREATED.

AT THE RATE OF MANDAMUS COMPELS THE OFFICIAL TO DISPERSE DISCRETION AREA FUND OR FULFILL THEIR MINISTERIAL DUTIES, BUT ON THE WHOLE, IF THE TRUMP AND ITS ADMINISTRATION COMPLETELY DISREGARDS THE SUPREME COURT, THE SUPREME COURT'S ORDERS, IT WILL BE DEFINITELY A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS.

AND YOU KNOW THAT'S AN AREA WE WON'T ACTUALLY KNOW UNTIL WE FIND OUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

I DO THINK A LARGE PART OF AMERICAN CITIZENS INCLUDING CONSERVATIVES WILL BE PUT OFF BY THIS BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY CONSERVATIVES WHO BELIEVE IN THE RULE OF LAW, WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE UNITARY EXECUTIVE ALL POWERFUL EXECUTIVE.

SO WE HAVE TO SEE.

>> EXACTLY.

AND SO THE COURT-- AND AS YOU INDICATED, CERTAINLY, NOT THE COURT BUT THE PUBLIC COULD RESPOND.

BUT IT'S INTERESTING THAT YOU MENTIONED THE WRIT OF MANDAMUS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WAS AT ISSUE IN THE VERY FIRST MARBURY VERSUS MADISON IN WHICH THE COURT ESTABLISHED JUDICIAL REVIEW, THE POWER TO TELL THE PRESIDENT WHAT IT CAN DO.

BUT IN THAT CASE, CHIEF JUSTICE MARSHALL BACKED AWAY FROM GOING ALL THE WAY BECAUSE HE WAS FEARFUL OF WHAT THE JEFFERSON ADMINISTRATION WOULD DO.

SO TARA, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THE SUPREME COURT BALKS AND DOESN'T REALLY WANT TO HAVE THAT FIGHT?

>> WELL, ONE WOULD HOPE IS THAT IF THE COURT GOES TO A CERTAIN POINT AND MAKES IT VERY CLEAR, OKAY, Mr. PRESIDENT, IF YOU DON'T CARRY OUT THIS ORDER, WE ARE GOING TO ISSUE A CONTEMPT ORDER FOR THE PRESIDENT.

I BELIEVE THAT THEY THINK THAT IF WE GO FAR ENOUGH AND MAKE IT VERY CLEAR, Mr. PRESIDENT, WE WILL HOLD YOU IN CONTEMPT, THAT THAT WILL SORT OF PUSH TRUMP BACK BECAUSE, OF COURSE, WE KNOW TRUMP LIKES TO BE VERY POPULAR.

AND I'M NOT SURE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP REALLY WANTS TO HAVE A FIGHT WITH A SUPREME COURT THAT HE NEEDS DOWN THE ROAD TO BACK HIM UP AS HE MAKES OTHER DECISIONS.

>> EXACTLY.

WHAT I FIND STRIKING HERE ALSO IS I AGREE WITH YOU STANDING ON HIS OWN HE MIGHT NOT.

HOWEVER, CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING WE HAVE YOUR BACK.

WE WILL ELIMINATE DISTRICT COURTS, WE WILL CHANGE BUDGETS.

WE WILL DO WHATEVER.

SO, RICK, DO YOU THINK THAT MIGHT PUSH TRUMP TO DO MORE AS TARA SAID THAN HE ORDINARILY WOULD?

>> I THINK IT COULD BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, IF THE CONTEMPT ORDERS DON'T WORK, THEN CONGRESS ALSO HAS THE ABILITY TO ACT BUT WE HAVE SEEN THEY WILL VERY BEEN MOVING TO TRY TO WEAKEN THE JUDICIARY AND THEY HAVE GIVEN UP SOME OF THEIR OWN POWERS IN ALLOWING THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO BECOME STRONGER.

SO THIS THREAT OF A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS DOES GROW A LITTLE BIT.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT PUBLIC OPINION WOULD HELP KEEP HIM IN CHECK A LITTLE BIT MORE.

>> YEAH, I MEAN LOOK, CONGRESS HAS THE POWER TO REORGANIZE THE COURTS, RIGHT?

BUT I MEAN EASIER SAID THAN DONE.

DO WE HAVE THE 60 VOTES IN SENATE TO DO THAT AND TO WHAT EXTENT?

MANY CONSERVATIVES AND REPUBLICANS WOULD SAY NO, WE DON'T WANT TO GUT THE COURTS BECAUSE WE BELONG TO SWING DISTRICTS AND WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE.

IT'S VERY GOOD THAT YOU BROUGHT UP THE MAR GIR V MADISON.

THE COURT WALKED A VERY FINE LINE.

IT SAID THAT YES, HAVE YOU TO GIVE THE WRIT OF MANDAMUS BUT I CAN'T BE COMPELLED TO DO SO BECAUSE CONGRESS HAS NOT GIVEN ME THE AUTHORITY.

SUPREME COURT HAS A LEGAL WAY BY WHICH IT CAN HOLD THE ORDER BUT IT ALSO CAN KIND OF SHIELD ITSELF FROM IMMEDIATE ATTACK FROM, YOU KNOW, REPUBLICANS AND SO ON.

SO, YOU KNOW, EITHER WAY, IT IS AN IMPORTANT THING AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> THAT WAS THE THING ABOUT CHIEF JUSTICE MARSHALL THAT ALLOWED HIM TO ESTABLISH THE POWER THE CONSTITUTION DIDN'T PROVIDE, IS THAT HE WAS VERY SAVVY POLITICALLY.

AND SO ONE OF THE COMMENTATORS THAT WE READ IN PREP RAITION FOR TODAY-- PREPARATION FOR TODAY'S THAT THE ONLY RECOURSE FOR ENSURING THAT THE COURT'S ORDERS ARE ENFORCED CONGRESS AND FAILING THAT, SHOULD THEY BE MAKING THEIR CASE TO THE PUBLIC TO TRY TO RALLY THE PUBLIC BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE SUPREME COURT SEEMS TO BACK OFF?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE HAVE TALKED ON THIS SHOW BEFORE ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS INABILITY TO EXPLAIN IN A VERY SIMPLE WAY, TO THE PUBLIC, WHY THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION'S POLICIES AND EXECUTIVE ORDERS, WHY IT IS SO DANGEROUS AND WHY YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE WE MAINTAIN CHECKS AND BALANCES.

NOT SIMPLY THAT WE HAVE THEM, BUT THAT EACH BRANCH ACTUALLY IS WILLING TO UNDERTAKE ITS DUTIEDS AND SAY TO THE PRESIDENT, NO, Mr. PRESIDENT, WE HAVE THE POWER OF THE PURSE.

NIECE ARE YOUR POWERS.

>> THE OTHER THING I WANT TO MENTION AND THIS IS VERY EXTREME.

YOU KNOW, REALLY ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM FOR MOST COURTS IS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THEY'RE THE ONES WHO GO OUT AND CARRY OUT THIS.

SO TO THIS EXTENT, IT WOULD BE U.S. MARBLES AND THEY'RE PART OF THE TREASURY.

THIS IS REALLY WALKING DOWN A ROAD THAT I HOPE WE DON'T GO DOWN.

IF YOU LOOK AT OTHER COUNTRIES, WHEN THERE IS OVERSTEPPING EXECUTIVE, IT'S SOMETIMES THE MILITARY THAT HAS TO STEP IN.

THIS COULD GET VERY MESSY, BUT I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE'LL COME TO SOME COMPROMISE BEFORE THEN.

>> ALL OF WHICH ARE UNDER THE PRESIDENT'S CONTROL AND AS TARA POINTED OUT, REALLY CONTINGENT UPON THE REST OF THE PUBLIC.

AND SO THERE ARE A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN THAT HARVARD SETTLED UP ON.

DEMANDS WERE SENT TO HARVARD UNIVERSITY IN A LETTER FROM THREE FEDERAL AGENCIES THE LETTER TOLD THE SCHOOL TO HIRE AN OUTSIDE AGENCY TO ENSURE VIEWPONT DIVERSITY IN TEACHING TO HIRE AN OUTSIDER TO MONITOR SPECIFIC DEPARTMENTS LISTED IN THE LETTER, TO REPORT ALL FOREIGN STUDENT CAMPUS CONDUCT VIOLATIONS TO HOMELAND SECURITY, ELIMINATE ALL DEI PROGRAMS, SUBMIT REGULAR REPORTS AND DATA TO THE GOVERNMENT AND MORE.

THIS WEEK, HARVARD EFFECTIVELY SAID, Mr. PRESIDENT, WE'LL SEE NEW COURT.

SO, TARA, HARVARD IS NOT EXACTLY HURTING FOR MONEY.

SO WHY FIGHT THIS?

WHY NOT JUST GO ALONG LIKE COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY?

>> PARTIALLY BECAUSE THEY'RE LEARNING FROM COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY.

COLUMBIA WENT ALONG AND THEN IT DIDN'T SEE ITS FUNDING REINSTATED AND MORE DEMANDS WERE MADE OF IT.

SO THAT'S THE SHORT ANSWER IS THEY'VE SEEN THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS SIMPLY GOING TO KEEP PUSHING ON THIS ISSUE OF DEI, USING ANTI-SEMITISM AS A WAY TO TRY AND GET COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, ESPECIALLY YOUR LARGER COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, TO BASICALLY ELIMINATE ALL DEI, ELIMINATE ALL PROGRAMS THAT CONSERVATIVES HAVE A COMPLAINT ABOUT AND HAVE HAD COMPLAINTS ABOUT FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

>> I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING HERE IS YOU KNOW, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THEIR STRATEGY HAS BEEN TO SINGLE OUT INDIVIDUAL UNIVERSITIES AND-FOR-THE MOST PART, UNTIL HARVARD'S CASE, THEY HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT GETTING MOST OF THE SCHOOLS TO CAVE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK COMING DOWN THE PIKE THAT'S GOING TO BE MOST IMPORTANT IS WHEN SCHOOLS BAND TOGETHER.

FOR INSTANCE THERE WAS A CALL FOR CONSTRUCTIVE ENGAGEMENT, A LETTER SIGNED BY OVER 200 COLLEGE PRESIDENTS THAT CALLS OUT THE ADMINISTRATION FOR INTERFERING AND SAYING THAT WHILE THERE ARE SOME PROBLEMS, WHAT CURRENTLY IS BEING DONE BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS NOT HELPFUL.

I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY, THERE ARE ONLY A FEW UNIVERSITIES THAT HAVE THE ABILITY, LIKE HARVARD, TO SAY NO.

BUT COLLECTIVELY, I THINK THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS DECIDED NOT TO TAKE ON COLLEGES EN MASSE.

IT COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING LIKE PUT A TAX ON ENDOWMENTS, WHICH IT HAS THREATENED TO DO BUT THAT WOULD HAVE AFFECTED HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES AND CAUSED THEM TO BAND TOGETHER.

HIS STRATEGY IS TO TAKE AND ISOLATE EACH ONE OF THEM-- AND IT WORKED WITH COLUMBIA BUT IT DIDN'T WORK WITH HARVARD.

BUT IF IT COMES TO A UTICA UNIVERSITY OR SOMETHING, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO WITH STAND THAT.

SO I THINK THE POWER OF HIGHER EDUCATION IS IN COMING TOGETHER AND HAVING COLLECTIVE ACTION.

>> SO, BUT ANIRBAN, THERE ARE, AS RICK SORT OF INDICATED, THERE ARE SCHOOLS WHO HAVE NOT SIGNED ON TO THOSE LETTERS, INCLUDING SOME SCHOOLS RIGHT HERE IN CENTRAL NEW YORK; PERHAPS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT SCHOOLS THAT HAVE JOINED THE FIGHT AND SCHOOLS THAT HAVE NOT?

>> WE WILL SEE HOW THIS PANS OUT, RIGHT?

AND I MEAN IT REMINDED ME-- THIS WHOLE THING REMINDS ME OF A WONDERFUL LINE FROM 1984, THIS BOOK.

AND IT SAYS THE PARTY TOLD YOU TO REJECT THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR EYES AND EARS.

IT WAS THEIR FINAL MOST ESSENTIAL COMMAND.

WHAT TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS ESSENTIALLY TELLING PEOPLE AROUND UNIVERSITIES THAT CLOSING YOUR EYES, CLOSE YOUR EARS TO THE EVIDENCE THAT EXISTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, WHAT JEWISH SCHOLARS AND JEWISH STUDENTS ARE MARCHING AND ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING, SOMEHOW PROTESTING AGAINST A POLICY AGAINST MASS MURDER IS GENOCIDE.

IT DID US NOT SIT WELL WITH ANYONE.

IN THE SHORT-TERM, OF COURSE, IT WILL CHILL SPEECH.

THERE WILL BE MANY UNIVERSITIES THAT ARE RIGHTFULLY AFRAID BECAUSE THEIR PELL GRANTS MIGHT GO AWAY.

WHAT OTHER KINDS OF RETRIBUTION IN TERMS OF LEGAL WARFARE LIKE YEARS AND YEARS OF COURT CASE.

DEFAMATION, WE DON'T KNOW.

BUT I FEEL LIKE WE ARE IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE BECAUSE A FEW YEARS AGO WE HAD WHITE SUPREMACISTS MARCHING CHARLOTTESVILLE WITH TIKI TORCHES LITERALLY SAYING THIS, JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US.

AND THE PRESIDENT AT THAT TIME SAID THERE ARE GOOD PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, THERE ARE SAVIORS.

THIS ANTI-SEMITISM, IF YOU ASK MOST JEWISH STUDENTS HERE, MANY RABBIS, THEY WILL TELL YOU, RIGHT, IT IS BEING USED IN A VERY CYNICAL AND IN A VERY CYNICAL MANNER.

AND AS A RESULT, WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS EVEN THOUGH IN THE SHORT-TERM, IT WILL CHILL SPEECH, IN THE LONG-TERM, WHAT UNIVERSITIES DO IS THEY TEACH YOU CRITICAL THINKING.

>> YES, THAT'S THEIR JOB.

>> THEY ASK TO YOU QUESTION AUTHORITY AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

>> BUT THE ANTIDEFAMATION LEAGUE, WHICH HAS TRACKED HATE ACTIVITY FOR YEARS TO THE POINT THAT THE FBI RELIES ON THE A.D.L., THOSE STATISTICS SHOW THAT FOLLOWING THE OCTOBER 7 HAMAS ATTACK, THAT ANTI-SEMITIC INCIDENTS SPECIFICALLY ON THE COLLEGE CAMPUS SPIKED 321%.

SO ISN'T THERE A REAL PROBLEM WITH ANTI-SEMITISM THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION COULD BE SET TO RIGHTLY ADDRESS.

>> THERE IS AN ANTI-SEMITISM PROBLEM FROM THE RIGHT, NOT THE LEFT.

AND THAT 320%, WE NEED TO SEE OTHER DATA.

A.D.L.

IS NOT ALWAYS THE RELIABLE DATA TO FIND AND OF COURSE THAT IS WHY WE ARE IN THE UNIVERSITY.

WE CAN ALSO CREATE OUR OWN DEFINITIONS.

WE HAVE SCHOLARS THAT HAVE CREATED THESE DEFINITIONS, RIGHT?

YES, ABSOLUTELY.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE ATTACKING OUR JEWISH BROTHERS AND SISTERS ON CAMPUS, WE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD HAVE A HEAVY HANDED AND VERY PROPORTIONATE RESPONSE TO DEAL WITH IT.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> SURE, GO AHEAD.

>> I JUST WANT TO SAY I AGREE WITH TARA.

I THINK ANTI-SEMITISM IS A PRETENSE HERE, A PRETENSE FOR GETTING AT ALL OF THE CULTURE WARS THAT TRUMP WANTS TO FIGHT.

>> AND THAT'S WAS I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT.

SO IF COULD I-- IF I COULD ASK YOU THIS.

WE HAVE EVIDENCE OF FACULTY MEMBERS, ACCORDING TO THE CHRONICLE OF HIGHER EDUCATION, ARE GENERALLY, NOT GENERALLY, OVERWHELMINGLY LIBERALS, 60% ARE DECLARED DEMOCRATS.

SO ASIDE FROM THE ANTI-SEMITISM ISSUE, TARA, IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH LIBERAL BIAS IN THE CLASSROOM?

I DON'T WANT TO TAKE IT TO THE POINT OF SAYING THERE IS INDOCTRINATION BUT THIS ISN'T ALL JUST MADE UP BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OR IS IT?

>> IT'S NOT ALL MADE UP BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THE PROBLEM IS IN THE DEFINITIONS.

OKAY.

YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE A LIBERAL INSTRUCTOR.

AS LONG AS THAT LIBERAL INSTRUCTOR-- TAKE WHAT I TEACH HISTORY-- AS LONG AS I'M TEACHING BOTH SIDES OF AN ISSUE AND I DON'T SAY OKAY ON THE TEST, THIS IS THE CORRECT VIEWPOINT, THE FACT THAT I'M LIBERAL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

THE PROBLEM IS FOR MANY CONSERVATIVES, IS THAT THEY WANT EDUCATION TAUGHT IN A CERTAIN WAY; FOR EXAMPLE, THEY WANT HITLER, FOR EXAMPLE, TAUGHT IN SUCH A WAY THAT, OKAY, YES, THE HOLOCAUST WAS BAD BUT YOU KNOW, HE REALLY WASN'T A BAD PERSON AND HE HAD SOME GOOD IDEAS.

>> OKAY.

AND WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT AT THAT BECAUSE WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO HOME.

BUT RELEVANT FOR TENS OF THOUSANDS OF FOLKS.

REPUBLICANS AND PRESIDENT TRUMP ARE CLOSER TO GETTING SOMETHING THAT THEY HAVE WANTED FOR A LONG THAT IS THE END OF FEDERAL FUNDING FOR PUBLIC TELEVISION.

CONGRESS IS CONSIDERING A WHITE HOUSE REQUEST TO RESCIND $1.1 BILLION DOLLARS CRITICS LIKE CONGRESSWOMAN MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE SAY THAT NPR AND PBS HAVE A LIBERAL BIAS JUMBO JET SEVERAL DECADES AGO, RIGHT, I DIDN'T HAVE MONEY AS A GRADUATE STUDENT TO ACCESS ALL THIS MEDIA, RIGHT?

PBS TAUGHT ME ABOUT THIS COUNTRY.

HELPED ME TO UNDERSTAND AMERICAN HISTORY.

HELPED ME UNDERSTAND AMERICAN CULTURE, MUSIC.

I KNEW SOME OF IT, BUT THE EXPANSE OF IT, THE WAY THE PROGRAMMING WAS DONE, IT WAS SO HELPFUL FOR MY INTELLECTUAL GROWTH IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT I CANNOT DISAGREE THAT HOW MUCH OF A WONDERFUL EFFECT PBS HAD ON ME IN TERMS OF TEACHING, IN TERMS OF KNOWING, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, SO YOU KNOW, IF YOU SAY THAT PUBLIC TELEVISION HAS A BIAS.

IT HAS A BIAS OF ACTUALLY ACCURATELY PORTRAYING HISTORY, CRITICAL THINKING, RIGHT?

AND YOU KNOW, AND NOT SAYING THINGS LIKE SLAVERY HELPED TO GAIN SKILLS OR ROSA PARKS PROTESTED BECAUSE SHE LOVED PUBLIC TRANSPORT.

SO THIS IS NOT-- WHAT THEY ARE AGAINST IS ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF IDEA THAT THERE IS SOME REVISIONISM THAT THEY WANT, SOME KIND OF RIGHT WING REVISIONISM OF AMERICAN HISTORY THAT THEY WANT THAT IS NOT IN PBS THAT IS NOT TRUE.

>> YOU SAY THE STRENGTH IS PROVIDING INFORMATION.

>> RURAL COMMUNITIES, TOO, WEATHER AND CULTURAL TIPS AND ALL THAT STUFF.

>> TARA.

>> AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY IS THAT, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC BROADCASTING NPR ARE VALUABLE TO EVERYONE BUT ESPECIALLY TO PEOPLE IN RURAL AREAS AND ESPECIALLY IN PROVIDING A VARIETY OF VIEWPOINTS AND A VARIETY OF CULTURAL ISSUES.

AND TYPICALLY NPR AND PBS ARE PRESENTING IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO PROVIDE EVERY VIEWPOINT THAT THEY CAN IN WHATEVER THE PROGRAM HAPPENS TO BE.

>> SO, TARA, YOU SAY BOTH YOU AND ANIRBAN, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL AREAS.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT?

WHY THOSE AREAS ARE MOST NEEDFUL?

>> TYPICALLY BECAUSE PEOPLE IN RURAL AREAS TYPICALLY, BOTH BECAUSE OF ECONOMICS AND OFTEN ALSO BECAUSE WHERE THEY HAPPEN TO BE PHYSICALLY, DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO ALL OF THE VARIOUS CABLE MEDIA OUTLETS THAT OTHER PEOPLE DO.

SOMETIMES THEY EVEN HAVE POINT BLANK SPOTTY CELL RECEPTION.

SO BEING ABLE TO ACCESS THEIR LOCAL PBS STATION, THEIR LOCAL NPR RADIO STATION PROVIDES THEM WITH AN EYE ON THE WORLD THAT THEY NORMALLY WOULDN'T HAVE.

>> I AGREE.

IF YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, NOVA, NATURE, THIS OLD HOUSE, YOU CAN FIND THAT PROGRAMMING OTHER PLACES BUT THE EMPHASIS ON THE LOCAL STATIONS AND WHAT THEY DO FOR THEIR COMMUNITIES, I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT AS YOU SAID, CORP WRAITION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING HAS BEEN UNDER ATTACK FOR DECADES.

AND WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THE VOTES, THEY'RE ALWAYS GOTTEN THEIR MONEY.

AND SO IT SHOWS THAT THERE IS BROAD BASED SUPPORT EVEN AMONGST CONSERVATIVES AND REPUBLICANS FOR THIS.

I ALSO DID WANT TO MENTION THOUGH, IN TERMS OF BIAS, ONE OF MIAMI FAVORITE SHOWS IS-- ONE OF MY FAVORITE SHOWS IS FIRING LINE.

I GREW UP WITH THAT.

IT'S NICE TO SEE THAT IT IS BACK AND ON PBS WITH MARGARET HOOVER.

I DEFY ANYONE TO CALL THAT A LIBERAL BIASED SHOW.

>> AND LET US NOT FORGET AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT POLITICS, THAT LITTLE SPIEL ON HOW A BILL BECOMES A LAW.

NOW IT'S TIME FOR OUR FS AND AWR AS.

WE ARE GOING TO START WITH YOU, TARA.

>> MY F GOES TO TRUMP FOR HIS CHILDISH AND BAFFLING EASTER SUNDAY GREETING ON TRUTH SOCIAL.

BEFORE WISHING THE PUBLIC A HAPPY EASTER, HE LIED ABOUT FORMER PRESIDENT BIDEN LETTING IN MILLIONS OF CRIMINALS, ACCUSED PEOPLE OF CHEATING IN THE 2020 ELECTION TO GET PRESIDENT BIDEN ELECTED.

AND HE ACCUSED THEM OF BEING THE WORST PRESIDENT.

HOW IS ANYONE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A HAPPY EASTER AFTER THAT?

>> RICK?

>> MY F ALSO GOES TO DONALD TRUMP FOR HIS ATTACKS ON JEROME POWELL AND HIS THREATS TO THE INDEPENDENTS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK BANK.

TRUMP ISN'T DOING ENOUGH DAMAGE TO THE ECONOMY BY WAGING AN INTERNATIONAL TRADE WAR.

HIS ATTACKS ON THE FEDERAL RESERVE ARE ALSO ADDING TO MARKET VOLATILITY.

AND DONALD TRUMP'S BEEF WITH THEM IS HE WANTS LOWER INTEREST RATES.

WELL, IF HE WANTS LOWER INTEREST RATES, HE SHOULD RECONSIDER MOST OF HIS ECONOMIC POLICIES BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE EXPECTED TO RAISE INTEREST RATES.

>> I TOTALLY HEAR YOU RICK.

MY F GOES TO THE ATTACK AND CONTINUED SEXUAL ASSAULT ON CHILDREN IN THE EASTERN DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO.

ACCORDING TO UNICEF UP TO 45% OF NEARLY 10,000 SEXUAL VIOLENCE CASES ARE AGAINST CHILDREN AND HAPPENED IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR.

ABOUT A CHILD WAS RAPED EVERY 30 MINUTES IN THE WAKE OF THIS HEIGHTENED TENSIONED BETWEENED THE ARMED GROUPS AND GOVERNMENT FORCES.

WE NEED THESE PERPETRATORS TO BE PUNISHED IN THE INTERNATIONAL TRIBUNAL COURT.

>> YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IN AFRICA.

>> YES, THAT'S RIGHT.

>> OFFTRACK WE WANT TO LEAVE YOU WITH-- OF COURSE WE WANT TO LEAVE WITH YOU GOOD NEWS, STARTING WITH YOU, TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO THE RESIDENTS OF CHELSEA MICHIGAN WHEN A LOCAL BOOKSTORE OWNER NEEDED TO MOVE HER SHOP CONTENTS, SHE PUT OUT A CALL TO THE COMMUNITY FOR ASSISTANCE.

FORMING A BOOK BRIGADE, SUPPORTERS OF SERENDIPITY BOOKS PASSED THE BOOKS HAND TO HAND FROM THE OLD SHOP TO THE NEW SHOP AND EVEN PUT THE BOOKS ON THE SHELVES IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER.

>> WOW.

RICK.

>> MY A GOES TO CHOBANI YOGURT WHICH ANNOUNCED IT IS EXPANDING BUILDING A ONE MILLION SQUARE FOOT MANUFACTURING FACILITY IN ROME NEW YORK, THE LARGEST DAIRY FACILITY IN THE COUNTRY COMMITTING OVER A BILLION DOLLARS TO THIS PROJECT.

ALREADY A MAJOR FORCE IN CENTRAL NEW YORK'S ECONOMY, THE NEW PLANT IS EXPECTED TO EMPLOY MORE THAN 1,000 WORKERS WHEN IT'S FINISHED.

>> EXCELLENT.

ANIRBAN.

>> MY A GOES TO THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS.

HE SOUGHT TO REFORM THE CHURCH BY TACKLING ELITIST MENTALITY AMONG THE CLERGY AND COMPASSIONATE APPROACH BY PEOPLE MARGINALIZED BY THE CHURCH AND UNTIRING ALLY TO THE FORGOTTEN.

MAY HE REST IN PEACE AND POWER AND HELP US WALK WITH THE EXCLUDED.

>> INDEED.

RICK, I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK TO YOUR F CONCERNING THE FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN.

DO YOU THINK THAT TRUMP IS GOING TO FIRE HIM, PERHAPS IN THE FUTURE, NEXT YEAR, BEFORE HIS TERM ENDS?

>> IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT HE K. THE QUESTION WILL BE WILL HE BE REAPPOINTED?

AT THIS POINT I WOULD SAY NO, BUT THE MARKETS MATTER AND ALL OF THIS TALK IS CAUSED, ESPECIALLY THE BOND MARKET TO FALL WHICH HAS CAUSED A LOT OF ALARMS TO GO OFF IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON SOME THINGS.

RIGHT NOW I WOULD SAY HE WOULD NOT BE REAPPOINTED.

>> HE WOULD NOT.

THANKS FOR THAT.

>> WELL, THAT'S IT FOR US TONIGHT HERE IN THE STUDIO.

BUT WE WOULD LOVE TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION WITH YOU.

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