>> David: TRUMP AND HARRIS GO HEAD TO HEAD.

TOUCHING THE THIRD RAIL OF AMERICAN POLITICS.

AND SHOULD NEW YORK GO NUCLEAR?

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT BY ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, JENNIFER STROMER-GALLEY FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, AARON STRONG FROM HAMILTON COLLEGE, AND RICK FENNER FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

THE STORY OF THE WEEK -THIS- WEEK ,OF COURSE, WAS THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE.

IT NOW LOOKS LIKE IT MAY BE THE ONLY DEBATE BETWEEN KAMALA HARRIS AND DONALD TRUMP.

GOING IN, THE BIG QUESTIONS WERE WHETHER HARRIS COULD PERSUADE ENOUGH UNDECIDEDS -- AND MAYBE A FEW REPUBLICANS -- THAT SHE IS CUT FROM "PRESIDENTIAL TIMBER."

AND WHETHER TRUMP COULD SUCCEED IN PORTRAYING HARRIS AS RADICAL "COMRADE KAMALA."

SO FAR, PUNDITS HAVE DECLARED HER THE WINNER, BUT HOW DID IT PLAY IN THOSE CRITICAL BATTLEGROUND STATES, AND HOW DID IT PLAY TO OUR PANEL?

>> CLEARLY I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES THAT HARRIS WON THE DEGATE BUT THE IMPORTANT FACTOR WILL BE WILL THIS TRANSLATE INTO PEOPLE IN THE SWING STATES VOTING FOR HER AND WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THOSE POLLS COME OUT.

I THINK CLEARLY TRUMP GAVE PEOPLE MORE REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR HIM.

YOU KNOW, EATING CATS AND DOGS, POST BIRTH EXECUTIONS, AND, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT ISRAEL WON'T SURVIVE TWO YEARS IF THE DEMOCRATS WIN.

BUT THE QUESTION I THINK REALLY COMES DOWN TO DID HARRIS GIVE PEOPLE REASONS TO VOTE FOR HER?

AND THE DEMOCRATS.

AND I THINK IT WAS WEAKER THERE.

WHAT I THOUGHT ACTUALLY THE MOST TELLING POLICY ISSUE HAD TO DO WITH THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY CAME UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION BUT WAS STRENGTHENED BY BIDEN AND HARRIS.

AND I THINK THAT THEY WOULD DO WELL TO PLAY ON THAT, SHOWING THAT IT IS AN EXAMPLE HOW GOVERNMENT REQUEST IMPROVE PEOPLE'S LIVES WHICH IS THE CENTRAL STORY TO WHAT HARRIS IS SAYING.

AND, TRUMP CLEARLY WAS VERY INEFFECTIVE IN ANSWERING THAT QUESTION AFTER NINE YEARS.

BEHIND CONCEPTS OF THE PLAN.

>> SO AARON WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF HARRIS' PRETTY FULL THROATED EMBRACE OF FOSSIL FUELS?

>> I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A WININGAND A NOD TO THE CLIMATE COMMUNITY FROM VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS.

SHE SORT OF INDICATED SHE'S STILL WITH YOU BUT SHE NEEDS TO MAKE CLEAR THAT, SHE'S GOVERNING EVERYONE AND SAYING THING ABOUT FRACKING EVEN IF THAT'S A FLIP BACK FROM 2020.

THEY LIKE TUQUE ABOUT WHETHER UNDECIDEDS WERE CHANGED BY THIS DEBATE.

I THINK THIS DEBATE FIRED UP THE DEMOCRATIC BASE WE HAD PEOPLE WHO AFTER BIDENEN'S ILL FAINTED DEBATE EARLIER THIS YEAR, WERE COMPLETELY IN TEARS AND FREAKING OUT.

NOW, THEY ARE ECSTATIC AND PUMPED UP AND GIVING HER $50 MILLION IN 24 HOURS AFTER THE DEBATE.

IF THOSE PEOPLE SHOW UP TO THE POLLS.

PEOPLE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT AND THEY ARE LIKE, SHE WON AND I WANT TO BACK A WINNER, I'LL GO TO THE POLLS AND THAT CAN MAKE A REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE ULTIMATELY IN THE OUTCOME.

SO I DON'T LOVE EVERYTHING SHE'S SAYING ABOUT FOSSIL FUELS BUT I THINK THAT SHE MADE A REALLY GOOD CASE.

>> BUT, AS YOU SAID THE PUNDITS TALK ABOUT THE BATTLE GROUND STATES AND I THINK, WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT IS GOING TO PLAY IN THOSE STATES AND SHE MIGHT RUN UP THE TOTAL IN NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA, BUT SHE STILL NEEDS TO WIN THOSE BATTLE GROUND STATES.

>> 100%.

COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I WANTED TO ADD IS, DEBATES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND I'M DISAPPOINTED TO LEARN THAT TRUMP DECLINED TO DO AT DEBATE.

THE AMERICAN PUBLIC LEARNS FROM DEBATES.

IT IS A MOMENT WHEN EVEN THOSE WHO ARE NOT PAYING THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO POLITIC, KIND OF BREAKS THROUGH.

IT IS THE BUZZ, IT IS THE WHAT EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT AND YOU CAN'T ESCAPE IT AND I THINK THAT'S BENEFICIAL IMPORTANT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

AND ALTHOUGH THEY TEND TO BE A BIT FACILE, I LOVED THE FORMAT OF THIS DEBATE.

I LIKED THE FACT THERE WAS NO AUDIENCE SO THERE WASN'T THE KIND OF PANDERING TO THE AUDIENCE FOR BOOs AND CHEERS.

I DO AGREE VERY MUCH WITH RICK THAT THE POLICY ASPECTS OF HARRIS' MESSAGING WAS THIN.

SO SHE DID A VERY GOOD JOB OF PUTTING TRUMP ON THE DEFENSIVE.

BUT SHE STILL HASN'T YET GIVEN THE AMERICAN PUBLIC A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF HER POSITIONS, WHERE SHE IS GOING TO LEAD FROM.

WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT CREATING A MIDDLE CLASS OPPORTUNITY ECONOMY.

BUT BEYOND THAT IT IS NOT ENTIRELY CLEAR WHERE SHE'S TAKING THE COUNTRY IF SHE'S PRESIDENT AND THAT'S A WEAKNESS.

>> YOU KNOW, YOU'RE RIGHT.

WHILE I WAS WATCHING THE DEBATE, I FELT IT WAS MORE, LESS OF A DEBATE BETWEEN TRUMP AND HARRIS AND MORE OF A DEBATE BETWEEN TRUMP AND HIS MOUTH.

AND IT WAS BASICALLY THIS WHOLE THING THAT IT IS HORSE RACE, TRUMP DID TERRIBLY BADLY AND OF COURSE, HE D HE'S A RACIST, SERIAL PREDATOR AND SPEWING ALL OF THESE LIES ABOUT HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS EATING CATS AND DOGS.

AND LET'S TALK ABOUT HARRIS.

I DIDN'T FIND ANY POLICY POSITIONS FROM HER AND SHE KEPT ON SUPPORTING THIS WAR IN UKRAINE.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, IT IS ALMOST DISTOPIC WHEN SOMEONE SAID LET'S BE CLEAR, THIS SITUATION IN ISRAEL STARTED WITH OCTOBER 7.

THAT'S A COMPLETE LIE.

IT IS LIKE, CLAIMING THE CIVIL WAR IN U.S.

STARTED BECAUSE OF HARPER'S FERRY.

MAKES NO SENSE.

SO I'M SKEPTICAL AND IN THE POLITICAL SCIENCE, THERE IS THIS ARGUMENT ABOUT THE MYTH OF THE UP DECIDED VOTER.

THE IDEA THAT NOBODY IS REALLY UNDECIDED.

THERE ARE APATHETICKIC VOTERS WHO WILL NOT VOTE AT ALL BUT IF YOU ASK THEM WHAT MEANING -- WHERE THEY ARE LEANING, THEY'LL TILL.

SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH HARRIS WILL MOVE THE NEEDLE BUT WHEN SHE NEEDLES TRUMP, THAT'S A GOOD THING TO DO.

>> YES, OF COURSE THE BATTLE GROUND STATE MATTER FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION BUT IF YOU FIRE UP DEBATES IN NEW YORK OR CALIFORNIA, THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPETITIVE CONGRESSIONAL RACES PEOPLE ARE GOING TO VOTE DOWN THE BALLOT.

AND IN NEW YORK'S 22ND DISTRICT, WE HAVE A COMPETITIVE RACE BETWEEN JOHN MANNION AND BRANDON WILLIAMS AND IF KAMALA'S SUPPORTERS COME OUT THAT CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IT IS ONLY SEPTEMBER AND WE HAVE TWO MONTHS TO GO.

>> I AGREE NEW YORK STATE WHILE YOU USUALLY THINK OF IT AS IRRELEVANT, IN THIS CASE BECAUSE OF THE HOUSE RACES, THAT -- AND VERY TIGHT NATIONAL NUMBERS IN TERMS OF THE HOUSE, IT TOTALLY MATTERS SO I AGREE WITH AARON.

>> HERE IS THE QUESTION: WAS THE PRESS UNFAIR TO TRUMP?

CERTAINLY, TRUMP FELT THAT WAY, AND A LOT OF REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING SO.

AND ACTUALLY A LOT OF OUR STUDENTS HAVE SAID THE SAME.

THEY FELT THAT THE PRESS -- >> THEY LET HIM GO OVER TIME SO MANY TIMES.

>> I AGREE.

>> AND HE KEPT TALKING.

>> AND THEY ONLY DID THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES AND IT WAS PRETTY OBVIOUS EGREGIOUS CASES SO I WOULD SAY, NO.

>> OKAY.

ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO WEIGH IN ON THAT ONE?

>> NO.

>> I THINK THAT THEY COULD HAVE FACT CHECKED KAMALA HARRIS BUT YOU HAVE TO SEE, IF THAT IS THE CASE, MANY OTHER THINGS COULD COULD COULD FACT CHECKED.

WHAT WAS FACT CHECKED ARE EGREGIOUS LIES.

AND, KIND OF THIS RACIST STUFF, HASHIM GRANTS ARE EATING CATS AND DOGS, THAT'S A TERRIBLE THING TO SAY.

SO I THINK IT WAS GOOD THEY CHECKED HIM THERE.

>> NOW, ONE TOPIC THAT BARELY GOT MENTIONED IN THAT DEBATE WAS THE FUTURE OF SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.

AND THOSE ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS MAKE UP THE THIRD RAIL OF AMERICAN POLITICS.

NO POLITICIAN WANTS TO TOUCH THEM FOR FEAR THEY WON'T GET ELECTED.

BUT THE CURRENT PATH IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.

RETIREES OFTEN RECEIVE MUCH MORE IN BENEFITS AND THE SYSTEM INCREASES BENEFITS FOR FUTURE YEARS.

AND FEWER YOUNG PEOPLE ARE ENTERING THE WORKFORCE TO SUPPORT IT SO ANIRBAN, HOW CAN THE SYSTEM BE REFORMED?

CAN IT BE REFORMED?

>> WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.

THE SYSTEM IS IN CRISIS.

AND I LOOK AT WHAT ECONOMISTS SAY, AND THE COUPLE OF THINGS THAT ARE SAID THAT CAN SAVE THE SYSTEM.

ONE, IS TO DO IT MEANS TESTING.

SECOND, INCREASE PAYROLL TAXES ABOUT 168,000 DOLLARS.

WHY IS IT CAPPED AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT AND NOT ABOVE IT?

AND ANOTHER THING IS, AND THIS IS A LITTLE ESOTERIC THAT FOR COMPUTING THE INCREASING THE SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS, IS BASED ON THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX, WHICH RISES STAY FASTER RATE, IS NOT BASED ON THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX, SORRY.

WHICH -- AND IT IS BASED ON THE AVERAGE WAGE LEVELS.

WHICH GROWS MUCH FASTER THAN THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX SO THAT ADJUSTMENT COULD BE DONE ALSO AND THEN ALSO INCREASING THE RETIREMENT AGE.

AND THESE ARE THE TWO OR THREE SOLUTIONS THAT ARE POLITICALLY VIABLE WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, TURNING OFF A LARGE PORTION OF THE CROWD.

>> RICK, COULD WE SEE A FREEZE LET'S SAY IN SOCIAL SECURITY?

>> NO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE IT.

THERE WILL BE ADJUSTMENTS AND ADJUSTMENTS CAN BE MADE.

FIRST OF ALL, SOCIAL SECURITY ALREADY IS MEANS TESTED IN HOW INITIAL BENEFITS ARE ALREADY CALCULATED.

AND IT GETS, YOU KNOW, NOT GOING TO GET DOWN INTO THE WEEDS OF THAT UNLESS YOU WOULD LIKE TO, MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO THAT BUT, IT IS A THIRD RAIL FOR A REASON.

THE POVERTY RATE OF THE PEOPLE 65 AND OVER IN THIS COUNTRY IS BELOW 11%.

MUCH LOWER THAN NATIONAL AVERAGE.

IT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT IMPROVING THE -- >> THAT'S WHY IT WAS INITIALLY CREATED.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND OTHER THINGS, RAISING THE RETIREMENT AGE TO 69, THE OLD KEEPING EARLY RETIREMENT POSSIBLE AT 62, IS I THINK AN AN ISSUE THAT WOULD CLOSE ABOUT A THIRD OF THE GAP.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE RAISING SLIGHTLY THE TAX RATE, AS ANIRBAN SAID, RAISING THE INCOME LIMIT.

THE POINT IS, WE HAVE GOT TO GET AND START DOING THIS NOW.

UNFORTUNATELY, BOTH TRUMP AND HARRIS HAVE BEEN GOING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION IN WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN TELLING PEOPLE THAT THEY WOULD DO.

NOT EVEN TAXING THE BENEFITS.

>> YOU SAY ALL OF THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ELECTED, RIGHT?

THAT'S WHY IT IS THE THIRD RAIL.

>> SO, CHINA IS ALSO GRAPPLING WITH THIS AS MANY OTHER COUNTRIES ARE.

>> THEY JUST RAISED IT.

>> THEY RAISED THE RETIREMENT AGE FROM 60 TO 63 FOR MEN AND FROM 55 TO 58 FOR WOMEN.

BUT, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT MEDICARE.

THE MEDICARE SIDE OF THIS QUESTION BECAUSE WE'VE MOSTLY BEEN TALKING ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT A CONCEPT OF THE PLAN.

[ LAUGHTER ] MEDICARE FOR ALL.

THE SYSTEM RIGHT NOW IS BROKEN.

OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IS BROKEN.

IT IS NOT JUST A CRISIS FOR HOW DO WE FUND SENIORS, WE HAVE AMERICAN FAMILIES PAYING $1400, 1500 A MONTH FOR HEALTH INSURANCE HAVING NO IDEA HOW MUCH THEY ARE GOING TO PAY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY PRICE TRANSPARENCY WHEN YOU ARE IN AN AMBULANCE OR ON A HOSPITAL BED.

YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THINGS WILL COST IF IT WILL BE COVERED SO YOU'RE PAYING MORE LATER IN PREMIUMS.

WE COULD FIX THIS WHOLE SYSTEM.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT IN 2016, BERNIE WAS TALKING ABOUT FORT A LONG TIMES AND THE BARELY GETTING A BLIP OF A MENTION YET THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IS STILL IN CRISIS.

OBAMA CARE HAS DONE WONDERS FOR GETTING RID OF THE PRE-EXISTING CONDITION LIMITATION AND DONE WONDERS FOR CREATING MORE OPTION FOR HEALTH INSURANCE BUT NOT FUNDAMENTALLY FIXED THE BROKEN SYSTEM.

>> JENNY.

>> WELL, SO, WITH THESE FINE GENTLEMEN, THIS IS NOT MY PRIMARY RESEARCH EXPERTISE BUT I THINK A LOT ABOUT THE VALUE SYSTEMS THAT UNDERLYING THE DEBATES.

THE REASON THAT WE CAN'T ADDRESS SOME OF THESE CORE ISSUES IN THE COUNTRY, IS BECAUSE THESE DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES ABOUT HOW IT IS THAT WE SHOULD ENGAGE GOVERNMENT IN SUPPORTING ORDINARY PEOPLE'S LIVES.

AND SO YOU HAVE GOT A CONSTITUENCY IN THE PUBLIC THAT SAYS THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD STAY OUT OF OUR PRIVATE LIVES AND SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN THINGS LIKE, CREATING A SAFETY NET.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COMMUNITIES AND CHURCH SHOULD DO.

AND YOU HAVE OTHERS WHO SAY THERE SHOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO LIVE OUTSIDE OF POVERTY TO NOT HAVE TO BE STRESSED ABOUT THEIR ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE AND SO THAT DEBATE STILL IS VERY FUNDAMENTAL AND WITH OUR VERY FRACTURED CONGRESS AND THE INABILITY TO EVEN START A CONVERSATION TO FIND SOME COMMON GROUND, WITH THOSE TWO VERY DESPERATE ISSUES MEANS THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE AN ONGOING CHALLENGE THAT HAS TO GET ADDRESSED AT SOME POINT.

MY ONE CERTAIN IS WHAT OFTEN COMES OF OUT OF THESE DEBATES, IS, SMALL INCREMENTALITY ANY CHANGES THAT DON'T REALLY ADDRESS THE CORE PROBLEMS.

AND SO YOU END UP SORT OF KICKING THESE PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD ANOTHER TEMPERATURE YEARS AGO ANOTHER TEN YEARS.

THAT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE AND AT SOME POINT I THINK THERE REALLY HAS TO BE A RECKONING ABOUT THE CORE VALUE SYSTEMS THAT WE HAVE.

>> I JUST WANTED TO SAY, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ANY TIME SOON WE'RE GOING TO SEE MEDICARE FOR ALL.

I THINK THAT'S OFF THE TABLE.

I THINK THOUGH, THAT OBAMA CARE HAS GONE A LONG WAY TO DEALING WITH THE PROBLEMS WITH HEALTHCARE AND PEOPLE WITHOUT INSURANCE, WITHOUT REALLY STARTING FROM SCRATCH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MEDICARE FOR ALL WOULD REQUIRE.

>> OKAY.

NOW, GOVERNOR HOCHUL'S BIG ENERGY SUMMIT WAS HELD IN SYRACUSE LAST WEEK, AND IT APPEARS THE GOVERNOR IS INTERESTED IN THE POSSIBILITY OF BUILDING MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS IN NEW YORK.

THE STATE RELEASED A DRAFT MASTER PLAN AND WILL BEGIN THE PROCESS TO CONSIDER ADDING ADVANCED NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY TO OUR ENERGY MIX.

HOCHUL SAID IT COULD BE PART OF AN ALL OF THE ABOVE STRATEGY TO MEET GOALS FOR CARBON FREE ENERGY AND EXPECTED RISING DEMAND FOR POWER.

SO, AARON, SHOULD THE NUCLEAR ENERGY BE PART OF OUR SOLUTION?

>> SO HERE IS THE THING: NUCLEAR ENERGY ALREADY IS PART OF OUR CLIMATE SOLUTION.

I CHECKED THIS MORNING, AND AS OF THIS MORNING, 19.76% OF OUR ELECTRICITY YOU THE IN NEW YORK STATE ON AT THE ELECTRIC GRADE RIGHT NOW IS COMING FROM NUCLEAR ENERGY.

2.5 BILLION WATTS.

THE LAW SAYS THAT BY 2040 WE HAVE TO HAVE 100% ZERO CARBON ELECTRICITY ON THE GRID.

THAT'S A BIG LIST.

15 YEARS FROM NOW.

WE NOEN LOWER BURN CLIMATE-POLLUTED FOSSIL FUEL LIKES NATURAL GAS BUT NUCLEAR IS ZERO CARBON.

IT DOESN'T EMIT GREENHOUSE GASES.

AND UNLIKE WIND AND SOLAR, NUCLEAR CAN PROVIDE SOMETHING REALLY CRITIC A TOLL THE GRID AND THAT'S CALLED BASE LOAD THERE IS ALWAYS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY THAT HAS TO BE ON THE END.

WITH WIND AND SOLAR ARE INTERMITTENT SOURCES SO THE OTHER OPTION ON A CARBON FREE GRID AND WE'LL HAVE HYDRO POWER AS WELL.

IS, BATTERIES.

BIG BATTERY FARMS.

THOSE HAVE NOT PROVEN SUPER POPULAR.

WE ARE BUILDING THEM AROUND THE COUNTRY AND IN NEW YORK.

RIGHT, SO, HER SOLUTION AND HER IDEA HERE IS, WE NEED TO PROVIDE BASE LOAD ON A ZERO CARBON GRID OF THE FUTURE.

WE HAVE NUCLEAR ALREADY 20% OF OUR ELECTRIC GRID.

THERE IS NEW NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGIES OUT THERE AND WE SHOULD LOOK AT THINKING ABOUT DOING THIS.

NOW, OF COURSE, WE'RE GOING TO HEAR ABOUT SOME OF THE CONCERNS ABOUT THIS.

>> AND I THINK ANIRBAN HAS A FEW.

>> SO I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THIS SO I FOLLOW THE GUY THOMAS WELOCK AN OFFICIAL HISTORIAN FOR THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COUNCIL AND DANIEL GOD HAS WRITTEN ON THIS IN NEW YORK AND OTHER PLACES.

AND THEIR MAIN PROBLEM OR THE CRITIQUE IS THAT, THE SCIENTISTS ACTUALLY DO NOT HAVE ANY SCIENTIFIC WAY TO CALCULATE THE RISK.

SO PAUSE AND THINK ABOUT THAT THE SCIENTISTS DO NOT KNOW, THEY NEVER KNEW ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY THE RISK IS AND THE WORST, THEY DID NOT HAVE THE METHOD TO CALCULATE WHAT THE RISK IS.

AND IT IS JUST GUESSWORK.

WHEN THIS FALLOUT HAPPENED, THEY ARE TERRIBLE.

AND, THE REGULATORY COMMISSION KIND OF KNEW THAT.

SO I GUESS, WHAT COMES OUT OF HIS RECENT BOOK CALLED "FAITH IN US.

THE HISTORY OF NUCLEAR POWER" IS THE CONTRIBUTION HAS BEEN COMPROMISED BY SAFETY SHORT CUTS THE INDUSTRY HAS HISTORICALLY TAKEN AND THE ATOMIC AGENCY SAYS THAT NUCLEAR POWER WILL BE ALL ABOUT AN IRRELEVANT ENERGY SOURCE BY 2050.

AND THAT IS -- WHY DO THEY SAY THAT?

FUSION?

>> I THINK THE REASON THAT THEY ARE SAYING THAT IS BECAUSE OF THIS PREDICTION THAT EVERY SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS, THERE WOULD BE A NUCLEAR FALLOUT.

AND THESE PEOPLE ACTUALLY PREDICTED THESE THAT WHEN IS THE NEXT NUCLEAR FALLOUT WOULD HAPPEN.

AND HE ACTUALLY SAID IT COULD HAPPEN TOLEDO AND THEY HAD TO PAY OUT MASSIVE DAMAGE.

SO MY THING IS THAT, YES, IT SEEMS CLEAN, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE FALLOUTS ARE TERRIBLE, AND LOOK AT HIROSHIMA.

THERE WAS A LARGE VAT OF UNSPENT FUEL THAT WOULD HAVE ALMOST CAUGHT ON FIRE AND IN WHICH CASE TOKYO COULD HAVE BEEN EVACUATED BY THAT TIME.

IT WAS BY A HAIR INCH.

>> JENNY.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE THOUGH IS WHEN THERE ARE EVENTS THAT HAPPEN AT NUCLEAR FACILITIES, THEY TEND TO APPEAR VERY DRAMATIC.

BUT WHAT IS HIDDEN IS ALL OF THE COAL MINERS WHO HAVE INJURED OR KILLED IN COAL MINING WHICH IS SUBSTANTIALLY MORE PEOPLE PER YEAR THAN WHAT WE SEE WITH NUCLEAR ACCIDENTS.

BUT BECAUSE IT IS SMALLER NUMBER, IT IS NOT AS DRAMATIC.

CITIES ARE NOT POTENTIALLY THREATENED.

IT DOESN'T GET THE SAME LEVELLEOF ATTENTION ATTENTION.

IF WE ACTUALLY TAKE CLIMATE CHANGE SERIOUSLY, WE HAVE TO PUT NUCLEAR ON THE TABLE.

AND IT DOES MEAN THINKING ABOUT THE REGULATORY ISSUES THAT MAKE IT VERY CHALLENGING TO SPIN UP NEW NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS BECAUSE THE REGULATORY QUAGMIRE IS SPECTACULAR AND CAN TAKE DECADES TO GET A NEW PLANT UP AND RUNNING.

SOHO CHILL WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT.

>> THE NEW PLANTS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED GENERALLY ARE NOT PLANTS LIKE THE ONES THAT WE HAVE NOW.

ALTHOUGH THAT IS WHAT THEY HAVE BUILT RECENTLY IN GEORGIA, I BELIEVE OR SOUTH CAROLINA.

>> SOUTH CAROLINA.

>> AND THE NEW ONE IN WYOMING, AND, SO, AGAIN, USUALLY, MAINSTREAM HERE AND THE POINT THAT AARON MADE IS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RELY ON A VARIETY OF ENERGY SOURCES.

AND SO IT APPEARS THAT NUCLEAR SHOULD BE ONE.

AGAIN, I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I WAS HAPPY TOO HEAR WHAT YOU HAD SAID ABOUT THAT AGAIN, WE HAVE HAD INNOVATIONS ON EFFICIENCY, SAFETY, AND -- >> CONGRESS DOES ACTUALLY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO.

THAT REMAINS AN ISSUE.

>> SOME OF THE NEW NUCLEAR REACTORS ARE SMALL AND MODULAR AND CAN DO 300 MEGAWATTS WHICH IS LIKE HAVING 300 WIND TURBINES IN ONE LITTLE REAKER BUT THE INTERESTING THINGS, THERE ARE HUGE GENERATIONAL DIVIDING LINES.

I GIVE TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND WOULD SAY EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WHO HAS GRAY HERE, NUCLEAR, WE DON'T WANT THAT BECAUSE OF LIVED EXPERIENCES WITH MELTDOWNS AND EVERYBODY WHO IS UNDER 30, AND I HAVE A CLASS RIGHT NOW OF STUDENTS STUDYING RENEWABLE ENERGY SOLUTIONS AND CLIMATE SOLUTIONS.

THEY ARE ALL SUPER PROINCOMIA.

ALL OF THEM.

THEY ARE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT NUCLEAR ENERGY BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO CREATE A GRID THAT'S CARBON FREE AND HAS RELIABLE BASE LOAD WE CAN DO A LOT OF THAT WITH WIND, WATER AND SOLAR AND ALL OF IT AS YOU'LL HEAR IN MY A SOON BUT BECAN'T DO ALL OF IT AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT THINGS LIKE NUCLEAR.

>> THAT'S SURPRISING THE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE PRO NUCLEAR HERE.

YOU ALSO JUST TEASED THE As AND THAT'S THE FIRST THEM I THINK THANK YOU FOR HAPPENED.

ANIRBAN, YOUR F. >> SORRY, MY F GOES TO DAVID CHANATRY'S USAGE OR THE BUTCHERING OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE WE HAVE SEEN AT RALLY I HAVE YOUR BACK, I HAVE YOUR HEART, AND, GET THIS, I HAVE EVERY OTHER PART OF YOUR BODY.

FINALLY WE'RE IN A ZOMBIE A APOCALYPSE.

THANK YOU.

>> JENNY, YOUR F. >> THAT'S HARD TO FOLLOW.

OKAY, SO MY F GOES TO J D VANCE AND DONALD TRUMP FOR AMPLIFYING THE FALSE STORY THAT TIM GRANTS FROM HAITI ARE EATING PETS IN SPRINGFIELD, OHIO.

THE STORY HAS BEEN DEBUNKED BUT TRUMP SHOUTED IT AT DEBATE.

AFTER CNN SAID THE STORY IS FALSE BUT VANCE DOUBLED DOWN.

NEWS GUARD REPORTED YESTERDAY THE WOMAN AT THE HEART OF THE STORY REVEALED THAT SHE HAD NO FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE.

SHE HAD ONLY HEARD ABOUT IT.

A RUMOR OF A RUMOR, OF BLACK IMMIGRANTS EATING PETS IS RACISM.

>> ARROJO CALIFORNIA WILDFIRE.

THEY KEEP BURNING.

NEARLY A MILLION AND WELL OVER A THOUSAND HOMES AND BUILDING HAVE BEEN DEMOLISHED AND COUNTING.

WE HAVE THREE BIG FIRES BURNING IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

LY A STUDENT TALK TO ME EMOTION MY AFTER CLASS ABOUT HOW HER GRAND FATHER IS BEING EVACUATED AND HOW TERRIFYING THAT IS.

THERE IS A HUMAN TOLL OF THIS CLIMATE CATASTROPHE.

THE TOLL IS HE NOR MUST AND KEEPS HAPPENING BUT THERE IS HOPE.

>> RICK?

>> MY F GOES TO RON DESANTIS FOR USING TAXPAYER MONEY TO TRY TO INFLUENCE THE VOTE ON FLORIDA'S UPCOMING ABORTION RIGHTS AMENDMENT.

THE STATE PUT OUT A QUOTE UNQUOTE PUBLIC SERVICE VIDEO THAT STATES THE CURRENT LAW THAT OUTLAWS MOST ABORTIONS AFTER SIX WEEKS A SHOW OF SUPPORT FOR WOMEN AND INCLUDE AS LINK TO A SITE THAT CLAIMS THAT THE ABORTION RIGHTS AMENDMENT QUOTE UNQUOTE THREATENS WOMEN'S SAFETY, UNQUOTE.

>> AND LET'S MOVE TO OUR As.

>> TO THE NEW YORK STATE GUN INVOLVED VIOLENCE ELIMINATION OR YOUTH PROGRAM THAT IS GIVING A LOT OF MONEY IN THE CENTRAL NEW YORK REGION, KEEPING YOUNG PEOPLE PARTICIPATING IN PROGRAMS AND, WOULDING IN SCHOOL LIBRARIES AND THE GUN VIOLENCE IS DOWN IN THE CENTRAL NEW YORK ACTUALLY SO GOOD ON THAT.

>> SO MY A GOES TO THE INTERNET FOR ME TRUMP DEROGATORY ATTACK ON IMMIGRANTS AND TURNING IT INTO RIDICULOUS.

FROM THE SIMPSONS DOG AND CAT TO ALYEPS AND PEOPLE EATING KITTEN SANDWICHES.

AS THEY SAY, THE INTERNET LOVE AS GOOD CAT MEME.

>> A GOES TO SOUTH DAKOTA.

OVER THE PAST YEAR, ACCORDING TO NEW DATA OUT FROM THE ENERGY INFORMATION AGENCY AND COMPILED BY RESEARCHERS AT STANFORD, CALIFORNIA MET ON AVERAGE OVER 100%, YES, 100% OF ELECTRICITY DEMANDS FROM WIND, SOLAR AND HYDRO POWER ALONE.

WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF THAT COMING FROM -- WIND ENERGY.

GO SOUTH DAKOTA.

AND AS SOMEONE WHO BIKED ACROSS SOUTH DAKOTA, I CAN SAY IT IS THAT WINDY.

>> [ LAUGHTER ] >> YOU'RE RIDING INTO IT.

>> I'M ACTUALLY FROM SOUTH DAKOTA.

I THINK THAT'S FIRST TIME I HAVE HEARD A POSITIVE STORY ABOUT SOUTH DAKOTA IN A WHILE.

>> RICK?

>> MY A GOES TO DEBUNK BOT.

AN AI CHAT BOTH TO SUCCESSFULLY CHANGE PEOPLE'S MINDS ABOUT A NUMBER OF COMMON MYTHS AND CONSPIRACY STUDIES.

THE STUDY FOUND AFTER INDIVIDUALS WERE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONVERSE WITH THE BOTH ABOUT WHETHER WE STAGED THE MOON LANDING OR THAT 9/11 WAS PERPETRATED BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, ABOUT A QUARTER OF THE PEOPLE NO LONGER BELIEVED THE CONSPIRACY THEORY.

>> NOW, SOUTH DAKOTA WIND.

SOUTH DAKOTA CAN PRODUCE ALL OF THAT WIND ENERGY BUT DOES NOT HAVE MANY LARGE POPULATION CENTERS.

SO, THAT WIND HAS TO -- THOSE ELECTRONS HAVE TO GET TO WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE.

AND THAT'S THE BOTTLE NECK.

>> WE CAN DO THAT IN NEW YORK STATE IF WE TRY.

>> OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT!