ANOTHER CASUALTY AS TRUMP TAKES ON THE MEDIA.

GIVE US YOUR POOR, YOUR TIRED, YOUR AFRICAANERS•.REFUGEE POLICY TURNED UPSIDE DOWN.

AND ELON MUSK'S GOVERNMENT JOB IS WINDING DOWN.

HAS DOGE BEEN WORTH IT?

STAY TUNED FOR IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT BY TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, JENNIER STROMER GALLEY FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, BEN BAUGHMAN FROM GANNONO UNIVERSITY AND CHAD SPARBER FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE HEAD OF CBS NEWS IS THE LATEST CASUALTY IN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTACKS ON THE PRESS.

WENDY MCMAHON WAS FORCED TO RESIGN BY HER BOSSES AT CBS PARENT COMPANY, PARAMOUNT.

THEY REPORTEDLY TO WANT TO SETTLE TRUMP'S 20 BILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT OVER WHAT HE SAYS WAS A DECEPTIVELY EDITED INTERVIEW WITH KAMALA HARRIS.

TRUMP HAS GONE AFTER OTHER MEDIA OUTLETS AS WELL.

ABC, NBC, NPR, PBS, EVEN THE DES MOINE IOWA REGISTER.

WHAT DO THESE ACTIONS, AND THE MEDIA RESPONSE, TELL US ABOUT THE CURRENT MEDIA LANDSCAPE.

>> RIGHT, SO, I'LL GIVE A LITTLE CONTEXT ON THE CBS CASE.

SO 60 MINUTES INTERVIEWED KAMALA HARRIS AND THIS WAS DURING THE ELECTION AND THEY EDITED THE INTERVIEW AS THEY TYPICALLY DO FOR THESE KINDS OF SEGMENTS AND THAT'S THE BASIS FOR THE LAWSUIT.

WHAT IS INTERESTING TO ME ABOUT THESE CASES THAT TRUMP IS REALLY PUSHING ON THE BUSINESS ASPECTS OF THE MEDIA INDUSTRY.

SO THE LAWSUITS, FOR EXAMPLE, AGAINST THE DES MOINES REGISTER AND AGAINST CBS ARE BASED ON STATE LAWSUITS AROUND CONSUMER PROTECTIONS, BASICALLY DECLARING THAT THERE'S FRAUDULENT ACTIVITY THAT IS DECEIVING CONSUMERS IN THOSE STATES.

AND THAT BUSINESS ASPECT, I THINK, IS THE ONLY ANGLE IN, IF YOU WILL, TO THESE KINDS OF LAWSUITS, GIVEN THE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS.

>> SO JUST WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT HE IS THE GOING TO WIN A DEFAMATION LAWSUIT.

HE HADN'T BEEN DEFAMED BY THESE.

>> CORRECT.

THEY'RE GROUNDED IN THE CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS.

AND THE MEDIA INDUSTRY IS AN INDUSTRY.

IT IS A BUSINESS.

AND I THINK YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF COMPLICATED MIX RIGHT NOW FOR NEWS OUTLETS WHO ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE MONEY AND, OF COURSE, THE PARAMOUNT CASE IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE PARENT COMPANY WANTING TO ACTUALLY SELL OFF AN ASPECT OF THEIR MEDIA ENTERPRISES TO SKY DANCE, WHICH HAS TO BE APPROVED BY REGULATORS BY THE FCC AND SO IN FACT ACTUALLY THREE SENATORS JUST ACTUALLY DECLARED THAT IF CBS SETTLES, IT MIGHT AMOUNT TO BRIBERY BECAUSE OF THIS LAWSUIT AND THE BUSINESS ASPECTS THAT ARE BEING HEARD BY THE GOVERNMENT.

>> SO HE IS GOING AFTER THE BUSINESS BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE HIS ANGLE TO END.

BUT CHAD, IS HE JUSTIFIED IN HIS ATTACKS OR HIS ATTEMPTS TO REIN IN THE PRESS?

>> MAYBE.

IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU ACCEPT THE PREM #EUS THAT I THINK THIS IS BUILT ON, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, LOOK, A YEAR AGO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW A FORMER NPR EDITOR AND FORMER NEW YORK TIMES EDITOR WAS SAYING THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA HAS A LIBERAL AND PROGRESSIVE BIAS AND THERE IS DATA FROM THE AMERICAN JOURNAL SOCIETY THAT SAYS FEWER THAN 4% OF JOURNALISTS ARE REPUBLICAN.

SO IF YOU AGREE WITH THAT AS A PROBLEM, IF YOU AGREE WITH FCC CHAIR BRENDAN CARR THAT NEWS DISTORTION DOESN'T CUT IT WHEN IT COMES TO FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES LICENSED OPERATIONS TO SERVE THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

IF YOU BUY ALL THAT STUFF, THEN SOME SOLUTION IS IN ORDER.

NOW, I KIND OF THINK THAT THE APPROACHES THAT HE IS GOING THROUGH ARE A LITTLE BIT UGLY, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT HE IS GOING AFTER, YOU KNOW, OR THAT HE WENT AFTER ABC AND GEORGE STEPH KNOP STEPHANOPOLIS FOR DEFAMATION IS RIDICULOUS.

I DON'T AGREE.

>> ARE YOU SAYING IT IS DISTORTED?

YOU THINK THE NEWS IS DISTORTED?

>> I THINK THAT THERE IS-- I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA HAS, AS I SAID, A LIBERAL AND PROGRESSIVE BIAS.

AND THAT'S NOT ME.

THAT'S THE MEDIAN VOTER.

>> BUT THE MEDIAN VOTER ISN'T NECESSARILY RIGHT.

AND ON THIS PARTICULAR POINT.

SO THERE HAVE BEEN VERY CAREFUL SYSTEMATIC CONTENT ANALYSIS DONE TO LOOK AT THE POTENTIAL BIAS IN MEDIA CONTENT, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

IN STRAIGHT NEWS THERE IS NOT.

THE CHALLENGE IS THAT SO MUCH OF THE NEWS CONTENT IS ACCOMPANIED BY ANALYSIS, WHICH THEN HAS THE, YOU KNOW, A SELECT SET OF JOURNALISTS OPINIONS IN WHAT IS HAPPENING AND THE COMMENTARY AND THE TWO GET BLURRED TOGETHER.

>> SO DO PEOPLE REALLY WANT REPORTING, TARA BECAUSE WHAT SEEMS TO BE POPULAR ON CABLE TELEVISION ANYWAY, ARE THESE OPINION SHOWS.

>> WELL, I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHICH PEOPLE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

THOSE OF US WHO ARE OVER A CERTAIN AGE, YES, WE WANT STRAIGHT REPORTING BECAUSE WE ARE THE ONES WHO GREW UP WITH, I'M JUST GOING TO USE LIKE WALTER CRONKITE SO TO SPEAK.

SO WE ARE PERFECTLY FINE WITH THAT SORT OF REPORTING.

BUT FOR GENERATIONS THAT FOLLOW US, WHERE THERE HAS BEEN THIS MERGER OF ACTUAL REPORTING WITH CONTENT ANALYSIS AND WITH SORT OF WHAT I CALL ENTERTAINMENT SORT OF NEWS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE COMMENTATORS, THESE ARE NOT COMMENTATORS BECAUSE THEY ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELD.

THEY ARE COMMENTATORS BECAUSE THEY ALSO BRING A CERTAIN EDGE OR A CERTAIN SORT OF POLITICAL VENT TO THE COMMENTATING.

SO THAT'S WHERE YOU RUN INTO THE PROBLEM.

IF IT WAS JUST REPORTING, I DON'T THINK WE WOULD BE HERE RIGHT NOW.

>> BEN.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE SHOULD BE RETURNING TO THE JOURNALIST CREED, THE WAY JOURNALISM USED TO BE.

IT IS TRUE THAT MEDIA ACCOUNTABILITY AND HIGHER STANDARDS HAVE FALLEN.

AND PART OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE WAY THE SYSTEM IS SET UP.

IS THIS ALSO AN INDICATION OF HOW LITIGATION IS PREVALENT IN OUR SOCIETY?

ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK THIS SHOWS AN EXTREME VERSION OF WHERE WE ARE AT NOW.

>> I THINK THE ANALYSIS THING IS INTERESTING WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THE GEORGE STEPHANOPOLIS CASE BECAUSE I THINK THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT HE FACED IS HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE MODERATOR OF THIS WEEK.

HE IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A MODERATE POSITION, SUPPOSED TO BE THE FACT CHECKER, THE ONE WHO IS PAYING ATTENTION TO THE PRECISE LANGUAGE USED IN LEGAL SPEAK, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN HE USED INCORRECT LANGUAGE 10 TIMES , TRUMP SUED AND... >> THOUGH, AGAIN, COME ON.

I MEAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RAPE VERSUS SEXUAL ASSAULT FOR ORDINARY PEOPLE DOESN'T MATTER.

>> YOU ARE CORRECT.

>> LEGALLY IT DOES.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

AND IF IT WAS DONNA BRAZIL AT THE TABLE USING RAPE, FINE BUT AS THE MODERATE MODERATOR HE IS HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD.

>> AND IF YOU ARE THE PERSON WHO IS SAID TO HAVE SEXUAL ASSAULTED OR RAPED SOMEBODY.

I THINK IT DOES MATTER, THE TERMINOLOGY.

SO THERE IS SPECIFICALLY A SLANT THAT HAS BEEN IN MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

>> SO DID ABC CAVE-- CBS HASN'T CAVED YET BUT JENNY, ARE THEY AFRAID RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, AGAIN, BACK TO THE BUSINESS SIDE OF THIS.

I THINK FOR THESE COMPANIES, THEY RECOGNIZE THAT THEY NEED TO BE DOING WHAT THEY CAN TO CURRY FAVOR WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION BUT IT IS COMING INTO CONFLICT WITH BASIC PREMISES ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO HAVE JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY AND TO BRING THE NEWS TO THE PUBLIC AS PART OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

>> NOW, GIVE US YOUR POOR, YOUR TIRED, YOUR AFRIKANERS, YEARNING TO BE FREE.

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE MESSAGE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

WHILE THE LONGSTANDING REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT PROGRAM HAS BEEN ALL BUT SUSPENDED, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS GRANTED REFUGEE STATUS TO 49 WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS.

IT SAYS THEY ARE VICTIMS OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.

THESE AFRIKAANERS--WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS OF DUTCH DESCENT--ARRIVED LAST WEEK.

HERE IN CENTRAL NEW YORK, WE HAVE TAKEN IN THOUSANDS OF REFUGEES OVER THE PAST 40 YEARS.

BEN, GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY, SHOULD OUR COMMUNITIES WELCOME THESE NEWCOMERS?

TO SYRACUSE OR UTICA?

>> YES, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, IT'S TRADITIONAL, IT'S A LONG STANDING TRADITION OF WELCOMING AND BEING HOSPITABLE OR ALLOWING THE DIVERSITY TO CONTINUE TO GROW WITHIN CENTRAL NEW YORK.

ALSO HISTORICALLY, IN UTICA AND SYRACUSE, PEOPLE COMING IN, REFUGEES COMING IN, HAVE HISTORICALLY STARTED BUSINESSES, FILLED JOBS AND ENRICHED THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES WITH ADDITIONAL CULTURES.

>> BUT IS THAT THE CASE-- I MEAN THE PEOPLE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE, CLEARLY ARE NOT REFUGEES IN THE NORMAL SENSE.

SO IS THERE ANY REASON TO SAY NO, WE DON'T WANT THEM?

>> TO SAY NO SPECIFICALLY, WE ARE TBHOT GOING TO ALLOW THESE REFUGEES TO COME TO CENTRAL NEW YORK?

>> NO.

>> OKAY.

JENNY.

>> WELL, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START.

THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS HERE.

>> PICK ONE.

>> YOU KNOW, WE WELCOME ALL.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BEAUTIES OF UPSTATE NEW YORK.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I SAW REPORTING YESTERDAY THAT SOME OF THESE AFRIKANERS ARE ACTUALLY AIMING TO BUILD THEIR OWN INDEPENDENT STATE IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE WHATEVER THEIR RATIONALE AND REASONS ARE, BUT THEY'RE NOT TRADITIONAL REFUGEES AS WE UNDERSTAND THEM.

WHAT I SEE, AND I THINK WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO REFLECT UPON IS THE WHITE CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST SLANT THAT OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS CURRENTLY TAKING.

WE BASICALLY ARE SAYING THAT WE HAVE NO PROBLEM AT ALL IMPOUNDING, JAILING WITHOUT ANY DUE PROCESS OR RIGHTS, PEOPLE WHO ARE BLACK AND BROWN SKIN FROM COUNTRIES THAT ARE NOT COUNTRIES THAT WE LIKE, WHEREAS WE ARE HAPPY TO OPEN OUR DOORS TO WHITE PEOPLE COMING FROM SOUTH AFRICA.

>> I'M GOING TO PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT ON THAT BECAUSE I THINK ON THIS ISSUE THERE ARE THREE THINGS TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND.

MOTIVE, METHOD AND MESSAGING.

ON THE MOTIVE PART, IT'S THAT I THINK AT ITS CORE WHAT HE IS DOING RIGHT NOW IS REALLY ABOUT PUNISHING SOUTH AFRICA.

IT'S A COUNTRY THAT HAS BEEN RULED BY ONE PARTY SINCE 1994.

IT'S ACCEPTED A LOT OF AID AND INVESTMENT FROM THE UNITED STATES AT THE SAME TIME THAT IT IS VERY COZY WITH OUR ADVERSARIES, CHINA, RUSSIA, IRAN.

IT'S A HAVEN FOR TERRORISTS ORGANIZATIONS, MONEY LAUNDERING OPERATIONS AND OF COURSE MOST RECENTLY, BRINGING THE GENOCIDE CASE AGAINST ISRAEL TO THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE.

THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT ARE REALLY ANGERING PARTS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT TRUMP WANTS TO REIN IN.

THE METHOD IS ONE OF EMBARRASSMENT.

I THINK HE IS TRYING TO EMIMPAIRS SOUTH AFRICA AND WE SAW AT-- EMBARRASS SOUTH AFRICA.

WE SAW THAT WEDNESDAY WITH THE WHITE HOUSE MEETING AND ALL OF THAT.

AND THE MESSAGING IS CLOSE THIS WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, I THINK, WHICH IS THAT THE REPUBLICAN BASE OR TRUMP'S BASE, I SHOULD SAY, HATES EMINENT DOMAIN AND HATES DEI POLICY.

AND SO THAT THEN BECOMES THE WAY OF LIKE SELLING IT TO HIS BASE.

HERE IS WHY WE NEED TO INTERVENE TO HELP SOUTH AFRICANS WHEN REALLY IT'S ABOUT WE ARE ANGRY AT SOUTH AFRICAN POLICY AND THEY NEED TO GET IN LINE.

>> THE EMINENT DOMAIN ISSUE IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S THE BASIS OF THE CURRENT CLAIMS IS THIS LAND APPROPRIATION ACT IN SOUTH AFRICA.

BUT, OF COURSE, RIGHT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENT TRUMP IN HIS FIRST TERM USED EMINENT DOMAIN DOWN ALONG THE BORDER IN ORDER TO BUILD THE WALL.

>> NO, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY HYPOCRITICAL IN TERMS OF THE USE OF EMINENT DOMAIN AND THE CONCERNS ABOUT LAND BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM WHITE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONALISTS.

BUT TO GET BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, SHOULD WE WELCOME THESE REFUGEES?

YOU KNOW, FOR ME, THAT'S VERY TOUGH.

ON ONE HAND MY INITIAL THOUGHT IS OF COURSE WE SHOULD BECAUSE WE WELCOME ALL REFUGEES.

OKAY.

SO BUT THEN THE OF COURSE NOT BECAUSE THESE FOLKS ARE NOT LEAVING THEIR ATTITUDES ABOUT RACISM IN SOUTH AFRICA.

THEY'RE BRINGING THOSE ATTITUDES WITH US.

WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS WITH RACIAL ISSUES IN THIS COUNTRY.

DO WE ACTUALLY NEED PEOPLE TO BRING MORE ISSUES WITH RACISM?

THE NOTION OF FORMING THEIR OWN STATE WITHIN THE UNITED STATES.

WHY DO YOU NEED YOUR OWN STATE?

WHAT IS IT YOU WANT TO PROTECT THAT YOU NEED YOUR OWN STATE?

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE SAID WAS WE WELCOME THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE EASILY-- EASIER TO ASSIMILATE.

THAT HAS NEVER BEEN A QUESTION OR LET ME BACK UP, IT HAS BEEN A QUESTION THAT WE RESOLVED MANY, MANY YEARS AGO ABOUT WHO WAS THE BETTER IMMIGRANT TO ALLOW INTO THIS COUNTRY.

WE CAME UP WITH RATIONALES FOR WHY WE ACCEPTED CERTAIN IMMIGRANTS.

AND NOW WE SEEM TO BE GOING WAY BACK TO A POLICY THAT USED TO PROMOTE, OKAY, YES, WE WANT IMMIGRANTS BUT WE WANT IMMIGRANTS FROM NORTHERN AND WESTERN EUROPE AND NOW WE ARE ADDING IMMIGRANTS FROM NORTHERN, AND WESTERN EUROPE AND SOUTH AFRICA.

>> IT SHOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE WHEN YOU HAVE MUSK IN THE EAR OF TRUMP.

>> MUSK PUSHING THE IDEA OF THE ATTACKS ON SOUTH AFRICAN FARMERS.

>> IN ADDITION TO NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE HIS STAR LINK IN SOUTH AFRICA.

>> AND I THINK THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BACK THE YOUR POINT, CHAD.

IF THEY ACTUALLY DO HAVE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS ABOUT THE POLICIES HAPPENING IN SOUTH AFRICA, THEN WHY FRAME IT IN THESE RACIAL TERMS?

WHY TURN THIS INTO A STORY OF GENOCIDE THAT IS ABSOLUTELY A FABRICATED STORY.

>> BECAUSE HE IS SELLING IT TO HIS BASE.

>> WHAT HAPPENS TO US AS A NATION WHEN THE PRESIDENT CAN'T TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING AND WHY THE POLICIES ARE HAPPENING?

>> TRUMP AND THE TRUTH?

[LAUGHTER] THAT'S NOT ON THE TABLE.

>> TRUMP IS NOT THE FIRST PRESIDENT TO TELL FIBS.

>> 100%.

>> TO BE FAIR.

>> BUT THE EXTREMENESS OF THEM IS REALLY SPECTACULAR, FRIENDS.

>> IT IS INTERESTING HOW IT IS A LITTLE BIT COUPLED WITH, YOU KNOW, LIKE ANTI-DEI POLICIES IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE SOUTH AFRICAN PARALLEL, I SUPPOSE, YOU COULD CALL IT IS THE BLACK ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT PROGRAM, WHEN REQUIRES INVESTORS IN SOUTH AFRICA TO GIVE BLACKS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF EQUITY.

SO ON THE SURFACE IT SOUNDS NICE BUT IT HAS EMPOWERED A VERY SMALL BLACK ELITE AND IT'S MADE THE COST OF BUSINESS VERY, VERY HIGH AND SO THERE IS A LOT OF BACKLASH ON THOSE KINDS OF POLICIES.

SO IT IS A WAY OF SAYING, THE U.S. IS ANTI-DEI BACKLASH, WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO SPREAD THAT GLOBALLY.

SO WHETHER YOU THINK THAT IS A RACIST THING OR POLICY THING, I GUESS IS A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE AND AGAIN HOW DO YOU SELL IT TO THE BASE?

>> ELON MUSK IS APPROACHING THE END OF HIS 130-DAY TEMPORARY ASSIGNMENT WITH THE GOVERNMENT.

FOR A TIME, MUSK SEEMED TO BE THE SECOND MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN WASHINGTON.

NOW DOGE IS WINDING DOWN, OR AT LEAST HIS ROLE IN IT.

MUSK SAYS DOGE HAS CUT 170 BILLION DOLLARS, FAR SHORT OF HIS GOAL.

THE PROGRAM HAS CERTAINLY REDUCED THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS.

BUT MUSK ALSO FOUGHT WITH SEVERAL CABINET SECRETARIES AND TRADE ADVISERS TO THE PRESIDENT.

SO, TARA, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS WAS ALL OF THIS WORTH IT?

>> NO, IT WAS NOT.

CERTAINLY I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE AT THIS TABLE THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE, YOU KNOW, ECONOMIC EFFICIENCY IN THE GOVERNMENT ON ALL SORTS OF LEVELS.

BUT THIS WAS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT.

THE CUTTING OF TENS OF THOUSANDS OF JOBS, FIRST IN TERMS OF PROBATIONARY EMPLOYEES, ALSO IN TERMS OF, OKAY, YOU ARE ON FURLOUGH, NO YOU ARE NOT ON FURLOUGH.

YOU HAVE BEEN FIRED.

YOU HAVE NOT BEEN FIRED.

ACCEPT THIS BUYOUT AND YOU KEEP YOUR BENEFITS UNTIL SEPTEMBER AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT.

NO, YOU DON'T HAVE BENEFITS.

YES, DO YOU HAVE BENEFITS.

SO IT'S CREATED A LOT OF UNNECESSARY UNCERTAINTY FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRULY GOING TO LOSE THEIR JOBS.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW IF THEY WERE OR THEY WEREN'T.

THEY HAVE TO FIND NEW JOBS.

WE DON'T YET KNOW AND WE ARE NOT GETTING REPORTS ON THE LONG-TERM ECONOMIC IMPACT OF ALL OF THESE LOST JOBS.

IT DOESN'T-- IT HASN'T INCREASED EFFICIENCY IN THE GOVERNMENT.

ANYONE WHO HAS TRIED TO REACH A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OFFICE KNOWS YOU ARE WAITING A LONG TIME AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE HAVE TO TRY TWO AND THREE DAYS IN A ROW TO FINALLY GET AN ACTUAL PERSON WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.

THE OTHER REALITY IS THAT FIRST HE SAID HE WAS-- MUSK SAID HE WAS GOING TO CUT $2 TRILLION.

BASICALLY THE ESTIMATES FROM INDEPENDENT ORGANIZATIONS IS $5 TO $6 BILLION SO HE HAS NOT CUT AS MUCH.

AND AGAIN WE DON'T KNOW THE LONG-TERM FINANCIAL IMPACT OF WHAT HAS BEEN DONE.

SO I DON'T THINK SO.

>> CHAD, YOU ARE A BIG BELIEVER IN EFFICIENCY.

[LAUGHTER] >> YES, I AM.

SO, LOOK, I'M GOING TO GUESS THAT EVERYBODY AROUND THIS TABLE IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT HOW TERRIBLE MUSK AND DOGE ARE AND I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY SO I, INSTEAD WILL BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTROVERSIAL AND ADD ONE WORD OF SUPPORT FOR HIM IN THAT MUSK IS RIGHT THAT FREE TRADE AND SKILLED IMMIGRATION ARE GOOD FOR THE AMERICAN ECONOMY AND THOSE ARE MESSAGES THAT TRUMP AND HIS POP LIFT BASE DO NOT WANT TO HEAR.

AND SO AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WANT TO CELEBRATE MUSK'S DIMINISHED ROLE AND ABSENCE FROM THE GOVERNMENT.

THERE IS A BIG PART OF ME THAT THINKS BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR BECAUSE THAT'S A VOICE I WANT IN THE ROOM.

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG DISAGREEMENTS THAT HE HAD WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION WAS WITH PETER NAVARRO, THE TRADE ADVISER WHO IS THE GUY PUSHING TARIFFS.

>> THE OTHER INTERESTING THING THAT JUST CAME OUT TWO DAYS AGO IS MUSK SAYING, I'VE GIVEN A LOT TO THE PARTY.

I'M GOING TO DECREASE MY POLITICAL SPENDING HE SAID.

>> BEN, IT SERVED A PURPOSE.

MUSK IS GOING TO BE THE SCAPEGOAT.

BUT WHAT IT DID IS THE INITIATIVE FULFILLED THE CAMPAIGN PROMISE TO MAKE GOVERNMENT MORE ACCOUNTABLE AND EFFICIENT AND THAT, YES, IT SERVED ITS PURPOSE.

AND I AGREE WITH WHAT EVERYBODY IS SAYING THAT THE REPERCUSSIONS AND THE RIPPLES THAT HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY IT ARE GOING TO BE FELT FOR YEARS TO COME.

>> JENNY, WHAT ABOUT THOSE REPERCUSSIONS.

WHAT IS OF CONCERN TO YOU?

>> RIGHT.

SO I HAD A CHAT LAST WEEK WITH A GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE FOR AN AGENCY WHO INITIALLY WAS FIRED AND THEN HE WAS REHIRED AND NOW HE IS ON A NO WORK ORDER BECAUSE HIS AGENCY BASICALLY DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE.

HE HAS NO BOSS.

HE HAS NO OFFICE.

HE HAS NO ACCESS TO COMPUTERS.

SO WE ARE PAYING HIM, THE TAXPAYERS ARE, BUT HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING.

AND I REALLY AM DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT AGENCIES ACROSS THE BOARD AND THEIR ABILITY TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES THAT THE TAXPAYERS ARE EXPECTING THEM TO PROVIDE.

>> WELL, THAT GETS TO THE IDEA OF BUREAUCRACY AND WHO ARE THE BUREAUCRATS.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK A BUNCH OF PAPER PUSHERS AND I'M SURE THERE ARE PAPER PUSHERS IN THERE BUT THERE IS ALSO A LOT OF SCIENTISTS AND OTHERS THAT DO WORK THAT WE DO NEED.

>> YEAH, LIKE I ALWAYS GO BACK TO USA IDA U.S.A.I.D.

AND WHO THEY WERE FUNDING AND THE DEI THING, A LOT OF BACKLASH AGAINST BIDEN FOR EXPANDING DEI INITIATIVES UNDER HIS ADMINISTRATION.

WE PAID MONEY TO EUROPEAN COUNTRIES TO DO DEI PROGRAMMING.

IS THAT WHAT WE SHOULD BE USING U.S. IDA MONEY FOR BUT YOU ARE KILLING GOOD PROGRAM AGO LONG WITH THE BAD AND ITY READS TRUST IN AMERICA AND CHINA IS FILLING THAT POWER VACUUM.

>> WE DIDN'T NEED THE CHAINSAW BUT THE SCALPEL EVENTUALLY SAID.

WE GO TO THE AS AND FS.

>> TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FOR ITS INVESTIGATION OF HIRING PRACTICES OF CHICAGO MAYOR BRANDON JOHNSON.

NOW THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS ARGUING THAT JOHNSON MAY HAVE VIOLATED TITLE VII OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT BECAUSE OF HIS HIRING OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

NOW, YOU SHOULD BE AWARE THERE WAS NO COMPLAINT HERE.

THIS CAME BECAUSE JOHNSON HAD BEEN INVITED TO SPEAK AT AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN CHURCH BY AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN MINISTER ABOUT HIS DEPARTMENT'S POLICIES.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE BROUGHT UP.

AND SO IT REALLY MAKES ME WONDER WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT REALLY DOING IF IT HAS TIME TO WORRY ABOUT THIS SORT OF THING?

>> JENNY.

>> MY F GOES TO DUO LINGO, THE MOBILE APP THAT HELPS PEOPLE BRUSH UP ON THEIR FRERN OR SOMING.

THERE IS AN A.I.

FIRST STRATEGY INCLUDING REPLACING CONTRACTORS WITH AICHT TO BUILD INSTRUCTIONAL CONTENT FASTER AND MORE CLEANUPLY.

DESPITE INTENSE BACKLASH ONLINE, THE C.E.O.

DOUBLED DOWN.

IT IS ONE OF A SET OF COMPANIES TURNING TO A.I.

TO REPLACE SKILLED WORKERS RAISING HARD QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE ECONOMY AND THE LABOR FORCE WILL LOOK LIKE IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.

>> >> MY F IS GOING TO ORLEANS PARISH JUSTICE CENTER AND SHERIFF SUSAN HUDSON.

DUE TO LOTS OF THINGS IN PLACE AND NOT IN PLACE.

10 PRISONERS WERE ABLE TO ESCAPE EARLIER THIS WEEK.

THREE OF THOSE ARE STILL AT LARGE-- FIVE ARE AT LARGE.

THREE OF THE FIVE THAT ARE AT LARGE WERE CHARGED WITH MURDER.

UP WITH OF THEM WAS CONVICTED OF MURDER.

THE TIMELINE ON THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

IT TOOK EIGHT AND A HALF HOURS BEFORE ANY AUTHORITIES WERE ALERTED THAT THEY HAD ESCAPED.

>> CHAD.

>> MY F GOES TO NEWS THAT UNION COLLEGE HAS FAILED TO MEET ENROLLMENT TARGETS FOR TWO YEARS IN A ROW AND IS PULLING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM ITS ENDOWMENT.

DECREASED INTEREST FROM INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS AND CREDIT RATING AGENCIES SAYS UNION IS TOO GENEROUS WITH FINANCIAL AID AND GAVE IT A NEGATIVE OUTLOOK.

UNION IS A GREAT SCHOOL AND NEEDS TO TAKE A HARD STEP TO PROTECT ITS LONG-TERM VIABILITY.

>> TARA AS.

>> TO THOSE NEIGHBORS HELPING NEIGHBORS IN THE SMALL TOWNS OF KENTUCKY WHICH WERE DEVASTATED BY LAST WEEK'S TORNADOES.

AMERICANS HAVE ALWAYS HELPED ONE ANOTHER AFTER DISASTERS AND THE RESPONSE IN KENTUCKY IS NO DIFFERENT.

FROM ALLOWING ONE'S GARAGE TO BE USED AS A STORAGE AND STAGING FACILITY, TO ALL THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO CAME WITH THEIR CHAINSAWS, BACK HOES AND HEAVY DUTY EQUIPMENT.

THIS IS WHAT REALLY IS ABOUT MAKING AMERICA GREAT.

>> JENNY.

>> SO THE MEDICAL PROFESSION HAS A LONG HISTORY OF NOT TAKING WOMEN'S PAIN SERIOUSLY BUT MY A GOES TO THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF OBSTETRICIANS AND GYNECOLOGISTS WHO CALLED FOR BETTER PAIN MANAGEMENT FOR I.U.D.

INSERTION, CERVICAL BISHOP BIOPSIES.

ABOUT THE ABYSMAL STATE OF PAIN MANAGEMENT IN THIS COUNTRY.

IT IS HEARTENING TO SEE THAT THEIR EFFORTS HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE.

>> MY A GOES TO A MAN NAMED ANDREW SMITH.

HE UTILIZED A DRONE TO DELIVER A LIFE SAVING FLOATATION DEVICE TO A WOMAN WHO WAS SWEPT OUT IN A RIP TIDE.

A FOR SAVING THAT LADY'S LIFE.

>> CHAD.

>> MY A GOES TO CHO CHOBANI WHICH BROKE GROUND ON A 1.2 BILLION FACILITY THAT WILL PRODUCE A BILLION POUNDS OF YOGURT AND RELATED PRODUCTS IT WILL CREATE A THOUSAND FULL TIME JOBS NEAR THE FORMER GRIFFITHS AIR FORCE BASE.

ITS FOUNDER AND C.E.O.

IS A CURDISH IMMIGRANT WHO LEFT TURKEY DUE TO THE COUNTRY'S OPPRESSION OF THE CURDISH MINORITY SO DAVID I REPEAT THE QUESTION TO YOU, SHOULD WE WELCOME REFUGEES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AS WE MENTIONED ON THE SHOW, PBS HAS BEEN UNDER SOME PRESSURE AND FINANCIAL STRAIN AND SO WE ARE ASKING FOR HELP TODAY TO PROTECT THE ESSENTIAL SERVICES LIKE THIS SHOW RIGHT HERE.

PLEASE CONSIDER SHOWING YOUR SUPPORT FOR IVORY TOWER -- WCNY'S LONGEST-RUNNING SHOW -- BY CONTRIBUTING AT WCNY.ORG/PROTECT THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

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I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.