from WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Brian Sharp in for Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made over generations from Rich the Ralph New ERA, and finally Highmark Stadium to the pages of the Democrat and Chronicle.

With me today are some of the journalists who chronicled the highs and lows of the Buffalo Bills and that place today, and countless fans called home for 53 seasons.

There is January 20th, 1991.

The Buffalo Bills are hosting the AFC Championship against the LA Raiders with a chance to go to their first Super Bowl.

Nervous fans wondered if they would get to witness something special.

What they saw was a blowout.

The bills scored 41 points in the first half, going on to win 51 to 3.

Two weeks later, they came within a few feet of Scott Norwood's field goal of winning the title.

It was the first of four historic straight Super Bowl berths.

But along the way and since our cherished memories, the bills moved to a new, more modern stadium next year.

This past Sunday, they played their final home game of the regular season in the Ralph.

It was an emotional farewell for many a time to relive so many memories, which we'll do here today.

Over the next hour, my guests are Jamie Germano, photographer who retired from the Democrat Chronicle after a 38 year career, and that line, retired Democrat and Chronicle photojournalist and multimedia producer Scott Bertoni, a bestselling author, nationally honored journalist and long time sportswriter, and Mac Shorty, photojournalist for Sky news.

So we'll start here with a simple question.

We'll go to Max first since you're you're one of our folks here.

What's the first memory that comes to mind about the stadium?

My first memory actually is is this photo?

This is I get this up here.

This is a 15 year old me holding a camera in the snow, with, a bunch of, Buffalo Jills.

And this was my introduction to photography.

Was, as a film runner and an assistant.

And, this was my grandmother wrote on the back of this December 11th, 1988, Buffalo Bills versus the, LA Raiders.

And so that was my introduction to, you know, being a photographer and being a working, photojournalist and, and my aspirations to do that.

But I think my first memory, real memory, I was really young.

I, went to a Pittsburgh Steelers game and I was a Pittsburgh Steelers fan.

So, you know, rooting for me and Joe Green in in the stands in Buffalo was was not a popular a chance.

And but, you know, growing up in Buffalo and experiencing, the bills and the dynasty and, just what the bills have done for Buffalo to put kind of buffalo on the map and also keep Buffalo, you know, all of, you know, have a little bit of an ego boost because Buffalo needed an ego boost every now and then.

Right.

Just, you know, those good times, those highs, those lows that you talked about, we seem to always come back and and celebrate them as a team and come together as a community.

And that how about you?

Well, when I came here in 1989, I had never shot a professional football game before in my life.

I was pretty new to being a photojournalist.

And, my second year here, I started covering the bills, and and those days, we used to have to photographers go and share the share the duties.

And I have never really consider myself a sports photographer, but I ended up, you know, covering the bills at, at the stadium.

And I just remember like the first time walking in there, sort of just the expanse of a professional football stadium, was really pretty overwhelming to me.

And the sounds and, you know, walking down the tunnel, like to just walk down the tunnel was a pretty amazing thing because that's, you know, you sometimes be walking next to the players coming out and it was you could see them coming out of a locker room and sometimes you'd get run over by them sometimes.

And, you know, that first year that I was shooting them, it was the first year of that was the first Super Bowl.

And and by some bizarre luck, I and ended up, getting chosen with a, a couple other photographers to go to that Super Bowl.

And so that probably that first year was, was, huge, huge memories for me.

And, you know, I was there for wide right and all of that.

And, so I would have to say, you know, I felt like I was a square peg in a round hole covering, covering professional football in this stadium.

And I grew up outside of Buffalo.

So I remember when the stadium opened.

So, just being there, you know, in that atmosphere, it was pretty, it was pretty intimidating at first.

Yeah.

When you, when you were on the field and then that mentioned the noise, the 80,000 people, when you were at the bottom of this fishbowl, you can feel it, it vibrates through you.

You can literally feel the vibration of 80,000 people chanting.

So, you know, and and that talks about feeling it.

You literally feel it.

And I should back up.

I introduced you just as a photojournalist, but you spent years at the DNC and it was actually a conversation you had that kind of got the show together.

Well, first off, these are my mentors here.

Yeah, I was at the DNC, as a, as a young photojournalist and Jamie and and that and, you know, Scott and folks in the newsroom, were very kind to me and, you know, mentored me through, my career.

And, sorry.

What was it?

What was the second?

Just the conversation you had with.

Yeah.

Mike, I so, you know, a week ago, before the last game was played, my Aunt Kate from Buffalo calls me and says, aren't you going to the last game in the stadium?

I said, no, I'm not.

Well, why aren't you?

She asked, and I said, well, you know, that was a lifetime ago.

I don't cover sports anymore.

I work here as a photographer and we cover, you know, civic affairs and in news in town, but we don't really cover the bills, and, and that's okay.

But, she got me thinking, you know, she's how you started your career there.

And I thought about this photo, and I thought about all the people who mentored me, and I thought about all the just, you know, great experiences I had on the sidelines, the camaraderie with the other journalists, being there to witness some of these historic moments.

And in sports, I mean, really, you know, that, you know, the Bills dynasty is an a historic moment in sports.

I think as journalists, those things kind of get lost on us because these are our this is our job, right?

This is our work environment.

This is the place we go to work.

And as you know, people who look outside, our family members, our friends who get to see what we do, you know, it's kind of special.

And I was I took a minute and I paused and I said, you know what?

You're right.

And I said, we got to get a show together.

And Scott, you did go back for the last game.

I read your column, just before we came on air.

Talking about that decision and, and I think the thing that struck me most is because you were talking about, like, we talk about a stadium, but this is a place that connects in so many ways.

And, like I was starting out across generations, I took my son to his first bills game, and it was important for me to get there.

So he would have that memory.

Talk a little bit about your memories of the stadium and what it was like to go back for that last game.

Yeah, it was, you know, stadiums are interesting places.

I think as a kid, I remember my dad taking me to Yankee Stadium for the first time, the old, old Yankee Stadium back in 1966.

And, you know, there was just something special about being there.

It was the people.

It was the atmosphere.

You know, Max talks about the trembling that you feel like when there's excitement in the stadium, the roar of the crowd.

And and there's just something visceral about that.

And, you know, I was not going to go, I haven't covered the team regularly.

I still write about the team for the Rochester Business Journal from on occasion with columns and so forth, but hadn't covered the team regularly since 2017.

But, you know, I was talking to my wife, Beth.

And the more and more I thought about it, I go, like, I've got so many memories here.

You know, from 1985 right on through to 2017 and, and the current day.

And at the last minute I bought a ticket and I wanted to it's interesting.

It's the first time that I've ever gone to a game.

They're not going to the press box not covering the game, not working the game.

And so I got a nosebleed seat up and 317 section, which is like, 27 rows up.

And the tunnel side of the stadium, the east side of the stadium, because I wanted to take the whole thing and I wanted the whole vista.

Plus, you know, in the background there was the, the new stadium, the spaceship that's landed across there, that road there and stuff.

And, but I just wanted to feel it once more, and I wanted to feel it from a different perspective, from the perspective of the fans, the way I did when I was younger, and I had just so many memories of great games and moments, that raced back, you know, through my life.

It was like kind of like you're reliving a huge chunk of your life while you're there.

And I saw that in the faces of fans, even more like a generation who had been there.

And I talked to a bunch of them and, it's just, you know, and in a time, particularly in a time like that, we live in right now where we are so divided as a people, there's just still something special, something galvanizing about a stadium or about a sporting event that can bring people together.

There's very few things we have anymore in our society that bring people together, and that we can kind of unite behind anymore.

So there was a, you know, I just I needed to go and I'm glad I did, even though I really froze.

But, I'm glad I went.

And it's a special place and it always will be.

And in our memories, you know.

And Jamie, what's your what memories of have come flooding back for him.

I have so many memories.

I mean, you know, I started thinking about this, you know, last week or so, and, and I remember the very first time I went to that stadium as a fan, I was like a teenager.

It was the early 70s.

O.J.

Simpson was there, was freezing out.

And he's running and he's wearing, like, black driving gloves because nobody wore gloves in the early 70s.

But he did.

And, you know, it was it was electric.

We were sitting way up and my parents, you know, bought these tickets and and, you know, and it was it was really kind of neat.

And then you fast forward to working there and you know, and that's right, when you walk onto the field there's a little different feeling and there's a little different vibe.

And and the sound seems different than that.

Really.

Sure.

You could describe it, you know, especially when it's really rocking and rolling.

And we've had some of those games, you know, that that the fans have just, you know, you know, crushed the sound, the decibel level, you know, gets really big, you know.

And and the one thing that sticks in my head as a, as a photographer on the sidelines.

And Annette and Max might be able to remember this, but when you're in the corners of the end zone, there's not a lot of room back there.

So when you see players rolling out of the end zone and stuff, there's really it's hard on the photographers.

I, you know, early in my career, when I was, when I was a little more bold, you know, I try and hang in there a little bit more towards the end.

I was I would bail in a hurry, you know, because even the smallest NFL player.

Oh, my God, yeah, we'll crush you there.

We Thurman will crush you.

Yeah.

And if Bruce is coming back in the day, you get get moving like the first time.

You know, you're standing next to those guys.

You're like, hope.

Yeah.

Holy crap.

Yeah, right.

They are big men.

I'm from Nebraska originally, and I remember going back to my wife now and we were down, right.

You know, walking on the railing by the stadium.

The game had been a blowout the backups were in.

And you really realize, like, jeez, these guys are huge.

And then a pass comes whipping in, whistling and I should say, it's like it moves fast and.

Yeah.

So and the other the other thing I remember, you know, when we were covering the bills, you know, I, I would come in as an editor and, you know, Jamie and Sean would shoot that or Jamie would shoot and I would edit and we try and communicate.

And again, this fishbowl effect, if you were standing on this on the sideline, down on the turf, you couldn't get a cell phone signal out because everybody above you is connecting and you're the last, you know, person, you know, trying to get out.

So wait, Jamie, Jamie, I'm trying to get a hold of.

I'm trying to get.

Yeah, man, I there's there's no way I'm getting a cell phone signal.

There's just not it's just not happening.

So there's these funny things that, like, we've experienced in this place that I don't think a lot of people understand, you know, trying to get, out of the way, these players and, you know, back in the day, they'd let you stand, right?

And then the NFL came in.

Well, the bills came in and said, well, now you got to kneel.

Well, you know, we all went to Home Depot and bought knee pads.

They didn't, you know, really make knee pads.

We were trying to save our knees.

And so it was, it was even, you know, harder to get out.

But the one thing was, is if you were looking for the other photographer across the, you know, your teammate, we'd have one on one side and one on the other.

You only really saw their head because the crown of the field was so high.

It literally cut the other person in half.

Just, you know, from, from, you know, the depth of field and looking across.

So it was just things that you wouldn't know, you know, looking down on a, you know, a TV camera, everything looks flat.

No, it it had a crown to it.

Yeah.

And as we're reminiscing here, we want to hear from you too.

If you have a question for our guests or a memory to share, you can call 844295 talk.

That's (844) 295-8255.

Toll free to local number (585) 263-9994 or email us at connections that talk or comment on the connections live stream on the Zee News YouTube channel.

I can spit that out there.

We will be having, by the way, photos, everybody has has shared some of their favorites with us.

So those will be, coming up and we're starting to get some emails, an email from Sean in Fairport.

What was wrong with the old stadium?

I see tearing down the old and building a new as a huge waste of resources, and is.

And if it was really necessary to tear down and replace, why were taxpayers asked to pay for it?

Oh, this is this is debate's been going on forever.

Not just here in Buffalo but everywhere else.

And and there's a good point there.

But as far as the stadium itself and believe me Buffalo Bills football, as far as I'm concerned, it will always be the Ralph.

That's where my memories will go.

And I know new memories will be made across the street and so forth.

But there were there were structural issues, particularly with the upper deck.

Engineers had come in, you know, and I think they got to a point where they said that the cost of rehabbing the current stadium would not be worth it, you know, I mean, and you were better off than to build a new one.

But as far as taxpayer money, this is a whole nother issue.

And I totally understand and I do have a problem with it.

When you have billionaire owners in sports who hold cities hostage, you know, in order to get, you know, new, new, new play pens, so to speak.

I totally get that, that we can do an entire show and, and we have in the past about, like, should taxpayer money go to that, or not?

But I think the bottom line is there were structural problems with the upper deck.

I didn't know how many more years this would be safe to, you know, continue to use the stadium.

So you needed to build a new one, rather than the cost of rehabbing the old one.

And, so that's how we got there.

And just a no, I know not to keep going back to Nebraska, but they're looking to, rehab and renovate a part of the stadium it's going to require, because you don't just build this in the off season and be ready to go.

You're going to have part of your stadium shut down.

Yeah.

For through, you know, one entire season, I can I can give you a specific example of that just down the road.

I went to Syracuse University, Archbold Stadium.

This old concrete ball was dilapidated.

And that's what they built.

The Carrier Dome right on the exact same site are now the jamb way.

Jamma wireless dome, whatever the corporate name is.

And Syracuse had to play the entire season on the road, in order for them to build on the same site where the stadium was.

So, yeah, the logistics get in the way.

And usually this is what happens.

You build across the street on a parking lot, and then you turn the old stadium into a parking lot.

And we have a call here, Mike from Penn Yan.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Yes.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon gentlemen.

All due respect to all the guests today.

I did want to just call in and say to Scott, particularly that, you know, talking about Bill's memories.

Got your articles about the bill during the 90s and after.

But for me, during those 90s teams, the writing that you did really, really helped kind of fill in and shape what I thought of the bills.

It made me a Bill fan, really.

We went to games and watched them on TV, but I really got to tip my hat to you about all the writing that you did at that time and after.

Well, well thank you.

I really, really appreciate that.

We had a great crew, you know, with Sal Maharana and Leo Roth and the entire staff, and we had great photographers and we all worked in tandem to try to tell the stories.

I mean, I remember going down to Jim Kelly's hometown in East Brady, Pennsylvania.

This little dot on the map and, and doing a story on his roots and stuff like that.

So, but I really thank you, for this kind words.

And it was it was a wonderful time.

I mean, that those Super Bowl years, it was fabulous.

It was it was a lot of fun.

It really was a lot of fun.

It was a lot of hard work and a lot of long hours.

But man, it was a lot of fun.

Yeah, we we was it was.

Go ahead.

No.

I'm sorry.

And we're still sitting up in, section 332, freezing up on the back.

I can appreciate it.

I was at 317, this past Sunday, so I know where you're coming from, but that's what makes a Bill's favorite.

Bill's fan, right?

Yes.

We endure.

We endure that type of stuff.

And we.

And we endured it on the sidelines with you.

The guys in the press box were a little cushier, but, we got two stories up.

We have some stories in the press box.

You guys had to use credit cards to, scrape the ice.

Did those right that game when it was 37 below windchill and we couldn't see out the windows in the press box.

We took credit cards out, and you had to keep scraping and defrosting it, in order to see.

Yeah.

So yeah, so we we had our moments and there was a little cold.

I'm sure it was cold, but we were down on the field.

Yeah, yeah.

But you got to move around a little bit.

We didn't.

You were sitting you tried kneeling for how many hours and getting up and kneeling and getting up when it's six degrees.

I think they should have been.

Yeah, I think that should have paid you guys a little bit extra for those games.

So let me tell you what are the things I remember from, you know, those those early days, was and this is the film era as we would be developing, you know, anywhere from 100 to 180 rolls of film by hand at the stadium and then getting those pictures on a drum or an alley fax.

So either over a telephone line or, electronic scanner that went over a telephone line, this was an endeavor in its own right.

And if you've ever done it, it is it is stressful.

It is very stressful.

And so is manually focusing.

Yes.

All of these things and all of these things that, that a generation won't, won't understand.

But, when you left at midnight or 12, 1230 or 1:00 in the morning, there were still people tailgating.

Yeah.

And it looked like a war zone because there were fires.

Fires, and there were silhouettes of people standing around still stumbling and drinking and, and and you, you're driving out, you know, you've got another hour ride back to Rochester and you're looking at these folks and you're like, man, the the humanity.

The, wondering what was, who was the, best player to interview or to work with and who was the worst?

Let's see.

Well, one of my all time favorites was Kent Hall.

He was a center on the Super Bowl teams.

If you wanted to go to go to guys usually go to an offensive lineman.

They don't get you only hear about them when they make mistakes and stuff, but they're like the heart and soul usually of a football team.

And their stand up people.

So win, lose or draw.

And Kent just had a way about him.

He was from Mississippi, was a really, really bright guy.

And, he just had a folksy way of, of, providing perspective during those years.

Now, you know, the Super Bowl years, those teams had incredible egos.

You know, Kelly and Thurman Thomas and Bruce Smith.

And I think one of the great jobs that Marv Levy ever did was to keep those egos under control.

If you had a strict taskmaster, I think that team would have imploded.

And thankfully, there wasn't social media back then or at real.

That team really would have imploded.

But I think Kent Hall, Darryl Talley was another guy from that era, and Marvel TV was my all time favorite.

As far as a coach or a manager, Marv, just self-deprecating sense of humor.

He was a brilliant guy.

You always learn something like Leo Roth, my, my colleague always said, every press conference, you'll learn something from Marv Levy.

As far as difficult, guys, Bruce Smith was very difficult to deal with.

Bruce could be, you know, he would go on these, silence strikes where he would just not talk to local reporters.

But it was funny, like, Bill's go play a Monday night game in New York or all of the New York press.

The national press is there.

All of a sudden you couldn't shut them up, you know, you couldn't shut the guy up because he knows, pro ball votes and this and that and, you know, national publicity and whatever.

But Bruce can be very, very difficult to deal with.

Among the, the, the Super Bowl year, players.

All right.

I think we're going to take our only break, of the hour.

And, we'll be back after this.

I'm Megan Mac Thursday on the next connections, we're joined by Valerie Perry of the Democratization Policy Council in Europe.

She's making the case that Europe needs to be prepared to create its own alliances without the United States, particularly if the US fractures NATO by trying to take Greenland by force.

We discussed the various options.

Our allies have talked with you Thursday.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Kerry Ola center, proud supporter of connections with Evan Dawson, believing and informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary Carey ola.org been shattered.

So you guys have talked, about some of this.

But you know, new stadiums are like palaces, but the older stadiums not as cushy.

How did this stadium rate on that scale and did that allow you to be closer, as you've mentioned to the players?

You know, I will say this about about how other photographers had to handle some of this.

We went through some iterations of where we could work.

In the beginning, we all, most of us drove back to the office.

Then there became a time when, we would go up in a in a box somewhere and AP would develop film and we would transmit from there.

Then when we became digital, they put the photographers.

I don't know if you remember, Annette, we had a trailer.

It was outside of the stadium, so we would have to come and go, go through security both times to come and go up the tunnel past the locker rooms.

We'd have to go outside to this trailer that leaked and and work in there.

They had very little heat.

They had like little lump, portable warmers in the corner.

And, and you know, we would have to run back and forth.

And then when we came back in, they would we'd have to go through security and taking your all your metal out and stuff.

And it was it was pretty dumb.

I mean, that was archaic even by the visiting press.

And the visiting press would come in and go, what?

What is this?

You know, like, you know, there used to probably what what what's there now is a in a legit media room for the photographers.

Just inside tunnel, you know, you make a quick turn and you're in.

You've got tables, you've got spaces, they've got, you know, internet connection, they got all that stuff.

But just before that it was almost undoable.

The only good thing about that was they didn't check your bags a lot.

So you could bring in a beers or whiskey or something if you wanted to.

We'd have him in the trailer.

So after the after games, you could cocktail while you ate it, and I, I did do that.

Of course.

I never got to do that.

There was I remember, you know, getting back to the, the whiskey, you know, when they had, this kind of, where you could stand and then the kneeling mandate.

Well, there were some, photographers who didn't take too kindly to that.

And if you stood with a long lens, you could stand against the wall in the end zone.

So there were photographers who did that.

And what they would do is they would just be their head would just be a little bit above the wall in front of the folks who had that.

So, you know, a fifth of, you know, Mad Dog or Wild Irish Rose really went far with, the fans that you sitting in front of.

And if you, you know, stuck one of those in and handed that to the the folks behind you, you were golden.

They took carry.

You need hot hands.

What do you need?

Are you cool?

We got an extra blanket up.

What do you want?

So you know, this is true Buffalo hospitality.

Scott, what was your favorite, I guess, area or part of the stadium?

Maybe outside of the outside the box?

You know, I would you always.

That's a good question.

I, you know, like, they had a pretty they, they, they renovated the locker room, the, the, you know, the home team locker room was quite spacious, unlike the visiting locker room, which was like a high school locker room.

You had to jump, jump over people and their equipment and stuff like that.

You know, the locker room was was quite spacious and you could the thing, you know, everything changed back in those days.

I could pull Jim Kelly aside, or I could pull somebody aside.

When I was working on a specific column or whatever, that had a different angle that I didn't want other people to have.

And so there was a there was enough room, and enough maneuvering you could do where you could pull somebody aside.

So from a, you know, from a selfish reporter's standpoint and what's good quotes and, you know, and, you know, an unusual, unique story, you know, I would go through that.

I think, you know, one of the places I did like, was a tunnel.

There was something interesting about that tunnel.

And I remember when the bills clinched in 1988 and they tore the goalpost down, the the fans had flooded the field and stuff.

We all watched from the tunnel and it was just incredible scene you were watching unfold from there.

But.

And there could there could be some, you know, Brian Cox and I forget what the bill's like there could be some fisticuffs going on between because both teams had to go up this narrow tunnel.

But I kind of there was something cool about that, that I like that.

And even going to practices, walking down that tunnel.

And then, as Annette had mentioned before, like, you see, you get out there and you see this incredible expanse and I think you really appreciate the enormity of everything there and what this means, you know, the you got you got a tremendous perspective on the stadium at that point.

And so right, right outside that tunnel is where the players park their cars, and the visiting team would come and unload their bus.

So, you know, the fisticuffs also, you know, would, would go, out into that, but, you know, you would get to see, you know, these, these players getting, getting out and coming in.

And in the early days, one of the things that I did was I assisted for Sports Illustrated.

Well, Sports Illustrated shot Chrome, okay.

They they didn't shoot negative.

They didn't process their they shipped everything back to New York that night.

So we had to catch a Fedex plane.

You know, we had to drive the, the chrome to the Buffalo airport and get it on a Fedex plane.

Well, the car that we were using was blocked in and we couldn't get we couldn't get the stuff out.

So we I think I had like $20 on me.

There was a tow truck parked there to like, you know, make sure that nobody was screwed.

I paid the guy $20.

I think I moved a player's car.

I don't remember what it was, but that gave this guy 20 bucks.

I got to get this car, move the car over, put that car in the spot that I was in, and I got to the airport and got the film out.

You know, you mentioned, about the tunnel and the busses coming in, the visiting teams.

There's some great stories there too, like especially when Tom Brady and the Patriots came to town or when earlier when Dan Marino and and the Dolphins came to town.

They'll tell you stories about the fans as it's, you know, coming down one bills drive and making it turn to get to the tunnel and stuff.

There would be people throwing snowballs.

If the bus was stopped they would like, you know, fans would be pushing and rocking that bus and stuff like that.

There were some, some interesting stories that went on for visiting teams that came through us, particularly ones that weren't beloved, such as Tom Brady's Patriots.

And there was honestly nothing better than bad weather games.

Nothing better, nothing better.

I mean, to a photographer, big snow made great pictures and people throwing snowballs.

And you know, even if you were it, you couldn't feel your hands out there.

But it was magical.

Bad weather made just amazing pictures.

I think some of Jamie's best photos are from those those games, because the struggle is real, right?

Yeah.

You watch these guys and so, you know, you're looking for as a sports photographer, you're looking for action, but you're looking for reaction.

You're looking from action from the fans.

All of these things.

Yeah.

There's some of Jamie's pictures right now.

But you know, that's that's not easy to work in this environment and make this stuff like, you know, this this isn't this isn't just anybody can do this.

You have to have a stamina and a tolerance for pain.

And also be creative and have an eye and and have a journal, a photojournalist, you know, sense about you and keep your head on a swivel at all times.

That takes a lot of gear.

Yeah.

That game that you that they just showed the one with the Sean McCoy scoring.

Oh that the, snowbird overtime overtime game.

So you know and that had mentioned manual focus.

But that game, the snowflakes were so big that you couldn't use autofocus.

You had to turn off auto.

Now, you know, we grew up on manual focus.

So it wasn't terrible, but we got used to it.

The last 1520 years, the autofocus got way better, but that night I had to go back and shoot manual focus all over again.

And it was, a challenge, you know, a little bit, a little bit different, the fandom.

The funny thing about that too, is real quick, on my way, after I left that game, there was so much snow and I'm hoofing it back to my car.

And I got, you know, cameras and computers and stuff, and I'm slugging it, and there's a, a facilities guy drives by in a ATV and he says, hey, you want a ride?

And I said, absolutely right.

So I hop in, he drives me to my car, and I'm so glad I did, because when I got to my car, it was overtaken by this.

The snow drifts that I couldn't have gotten out.

He happened to have a shovel in the back of his neck, and I had to shovel myself out of the car, out of that parking spot.

There was nobody around at that point.

It was like four hours after the game or something, and it would have been just me with my hands.

Just kind of digging the snow out.

So luckily, this guy was here and I still had he still had to rock the car, and he gave me a little push to get it to get it going, you know, and but that was a pretty now it wasn't overly cold, just those big snowflakes.

And a lot of it.

The fan ammonium photo, reference the the blow out and the goalpost coming down.

That that photo, I think might be one of the only pictures of that event because the, the, the the day was so cold that everybody's cameras just locked up and the battery started dying.

And I believe that the photographer who made that had shoved a camera in his coat pocket with keeping warmers, keeping it warm just for that moment, and came when they watched the film inside of our pockets or otherwise.

You were like.

And so that on your.

Yeah, pictures.

I don't think that picture would exist of that goalpost being tore down if that camera wasn't kept warm.

One of the things I love about that photo and again, it you know, we were there in the tunnel watching this all occur is that you had I don't know, 15, 20,000 people on the field at that time.

And because of the cold, like you just saw, like the steam coming up, I mean, it was just it was such an ethereal, you know, feel to that photograph and stuff.

And it really captured it because I can remember being in a tunnel looking at that and just seeing like, and even the players came out of the locker room to watch this.

It was just such an, you know, it was all it was Buffalo.

It really was it.

It was such an incredible moment.

It's still one of my favorite moments being in that place.

And I think that's kind of the, you know, we can argue whether or not the money is well spent or it's responsible.

But, you know, a town like Buffalo and having grown up there, some buffalo needs the bills, Rochester needs the bills.

You know, we need to have something to rally around.

I think we go back.

You know, Scott made a really good point about, you know, coming together as a community and, setting differences aside and being in one place to, to root for the home team.

Right.

And, you know, I don't know, I think it would be hard to argue, you know, a value on that and an importance to a community that, you know, look at, 60s, 70s and 80s were not very kind of buffalo.

Buffalo is kind of had a resurgence.

And yes, there is some things, but, you know, there's still some working class people in that town who deserve to have something like this.

You know, they're in their community, that it is a dynasty.

It is an established, you know, team that has roots in history and generation.

I think you open the show.

It's generational history.

You brought your son to the first game this year.

You're not the only one.

And, you know, I think it's important that, you know, that perspective is also kind of, you know, taking into account talking about what this team really does mean for that community in Rochester.

I think I think the, the, the taxpayers in Buffalo clearly get their money back from the bills.

I, I think there's definitely a more of a reward than, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're going to look at a few more photos here that you guys took.

And for our listeners, if one of these comes up and it's yours, if you could also describe just for people who are not able to see, what their, what they're seeing up here of some of your favorite memories, oh my gosh.

Or you can watch on the YouTube channel.

Okay.

So this this is this is at the first Super Bowl and that is me on the sideline not shooting as Thurman Thomas is running by me.

This ended up in Sports Illustrated, the week after the game.

And, I forget who called me and said, have you seen Sports Illustrated?

And like, you know, and they said, well, you might want to take a look.

And this is, wide, right?

Of course.

You know, it's it's like the picture of the moment.

I know it's not like a very exciting picture, but it's the moment, you know, right after he kicks it.

And then I. There was a frame or two after that where he stands and he just puts his head down and, it's a storytelling picture, clearly.

And I, you know, everybody was stunned.

You know, I was like, oh my God, we came down here for a whole week and we did all these things, and this was so exciting and oh my God, he didn't make it.

And we had to go in the locker room right afterward.

And, I remember walking in there thinking, okay, I really have got to make this.

I, you know, I had I knew I had that picture, and this is actually one of the AFC championship.

That's Bruce Smith after, on the field after one of the I forget I think that was.

Yeah.

Describe what it looks like for folks who were just listen, this these photos by the way, real quick will also be available on the website.

This is on the field.

This is, Bruce Smith with his arms outstretched, just like looking to the heavens and, you know, giant smile.

And they had just won the AFC Championship up.

I think it was 93 or 94, I can't remember, which is like 93 grain.

Yeah, yeah.

All black or white.

We were still shooting black and white then this is actually the same year.

This is Jim Kelly, talking to media.

I think it was after that game, just surrounded by.

Surrounded by.

You must have been in the stands for that.

That couldn't have been just a wide Hail Mary picture.

You know, I was on the field.

I remember it was crazy kind of running around on the field.

This is me in, Minnesota.

Was that.

No, that was in Atlanta for the 93 Super Bowl I got to go to to go figure, you know, and what was fun about going to Atlanta?

This is me many, much, much younger me with very old photo gear, manually focusing still manually focusing then.

Myself and another female photographer got sent Melissa hand and I got sent and we were so excited to be like two women getting sent, you know, to go to the Super Bowl.

We were very excited.

So and I don't know who's this is not the Super Bowl.

This is not the Super Bowl.

This is a streaker.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this is probably the only thing we could show in the paper.

There was more more or I should say less, but you know, and and one of the few times that a streaker actually made a really fun photo, you know, if I'm not mistaken, because I think we use this in one of our stories that the the bills had a tough day that day.

And I think this was a better hit than any of the bills that made that day.

I think one of us was that like, that's good.

Yeah.

Just, just, you know, just doing what Josh does, you know, he's a he's a hard guy not to like, you know, as a player and as a person.

Not that I know him so well and that, you know, we don't go out for beers together.

But, the few times that you've interacted with him, he's a he's just a class act and, and, you know, and his play is has improved so much.

I know that Skype I remember his rookie year.

He was you could tell he was talented.

But he was so raw.

Yeah.

That, you know, he was a project in the beginning.

And it was a project that actual I remember when he was in college because like I say, grew up in Nebraska.

So Wyoming, Nebraska actually played Wyoming.

He has a, there was a play where the first game that he played, Nebraska was much better team at that time, picked him off something like three times.

And the last one, they intercepted it and the Nebraska player ran up and handed him the ball.

And Allen just threw it back at the Nebraska player and a flag was thrown.

And it was unsportsmanlike conduct against Nebraska.

But I remember his yeah, it was last year.

He was like stiff arm and people into the ground.

I'm like, yeah, that's the guy that you need.

These are back in the Super Bowl era to, you know and Andre Reed who is a Hall of Famer and you know I you know it's just fun to to be around back then.

Because you got a lot of these these types of things.

There'll be some some black and white.

We used to shoot a lot of black and white.

This was early color for us.

And and it was you know, what's great about that photo to J.B.

is like Sunday they went back to the red helmets.

Yeah.

And that brought everything back.

And that was it.

That's a great combination.

Yeah.

That uniform this photo is, is you have Kelly running up and Reed is spike in the ball.

Yeah.

Yeah I think the m. Yeah there's Jamie.

Yeah.

So during Covid, you know a lot of people probably didn't realize, but they made photographers shoot from the stands.

So this is me from the stands and if you wanted to move around, you just walked through the seats and you and you shot that way.

Now it's eerily quiet.

You could hear the players.

There's some language that we could not hear on the field because of all the fans there, but when there's no fans there, that language is very available to all of us.

And I felt like I kind of loved it because it was more what more grassroots football to me, you know?

And, so it was it was a fun time.

Jim Kelly getting sacked by the Colts.

Nice old black and white.

You know, kind of the things that, you know, we did back then who was Jimmy Richer is that 51 Jimmy Richer.

He became a commercial airline pilot after his career.

I did not know that.

Yeah yeah.

Good guy.

Yeah yeah.

How many games Jim Kelly, Grace.

How many games would each of you say you've been to and round you're going to be the winner.

I mean, Jamie Scott the champions card like that.

You I don't know, you might be more than me.

I mean, I pretty much have done him the last ten years or so.

15.

So probably I didn't really travel with them that much.

So probably do the math.

You know, what's the we talked about a lot of, you know, the the could you talk about wide wide right.

But what are the hardest memories you guys had of particularly being in that stadium?

I have one real quick, but maybe not real quick.

I was at the, Houston game, the comeback game when they were still the Houston Oilers.

Back then, we were shooting film to make deadline.

Somebody has to leave early, collect everybody's film.

Somebody leaves early.

We get film developed.

So when the photographers, the the other two photographers come back, they have something to start working on where they do their end of the game stuff.

I was chosen to do this.

We kind of did a drawing or something and I lost.

So, you know, the game's a little out of hand.

I'm thinking I'm in good shape.

And then something kind of changed just before I left, you know, they started scoring the vibe change.

They, you know, the crowd changed and I could kind of sense it.

And, and I waited as long as I could before I had to go back.

But I collected everybody's film and I'm walking out of the stadium and there's nobody because nobody left.

And and it's just me walking to my car.

At the time we parked in a somebody's yard and and I could hear the crowd going crazy out, and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm leaving.

And literally I get in the car, I'm driving back, I turn the radio and the thing on my phone and in the car driving back, and all I could hear is score after score after score.

And I'm like, oh my God, I, you know.

And then I'm basically walking into the DNC building with my head down going, this film is worthless because it's not what you said.

It's, you know, and and it was like so every January 3rd.

Right.

Is that when it was January 3rd and 93, every January 3rd, I get this like headache or something, just kind of like, oh my God.

Because they always brought it up.

Oh the biggest comeback.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

You know, and I was like, it was a, it was a bad memory.

Obviously to this day I'm still thinking about it.

I don't really have any bad memories.

You know, getting back to that or looking at the photos and Jamie and, and that's pictures and, and and this is before the, the, you know, this is before Instagram and Facebook and this is before the bills hired their own photography and video team.

This.

So when these pictures were published in the paper, long Scott's article, whether it was the Buffalo News or Rochester or Syracuse or or wherever, these were really the only documented photos that were, you know, generated from that game.

So the players wanted these pictures.

So there was a barter system for autographs and, a little quid pro quo, you know, in the tunnel or back in the press box or up in the dark room, you know, you know, Kelly Thurman, these guys would, you know, find you on the sidelines.

They knew who they knew, who these photographers were.

I saw that picture, you know.

Can I get a print of that?

When they moved the, To Fisher for the training.

For training camp.

Who is the owner at the time, Ralph Wilson.

Ralph Wilson came, and Ralph was he was elderly.

He was brought in on a golf cart and he steps.

So I'm kind of sidetracking here, and he steps out.

Any tips?

His hat to the crowd.

And I made this picture.

And it was it was a it was a great photo of Ralph with the crowd and him tipping his hat.

And I remember getting a phone call from his wife the next day after the picture published.

Can you send me?

That is the best picture I've ever seen of Ralph.

So, you know, people paid attention and were, you know, were wanting to connect with photographers and, and the public connected with Scott, you know, in a way that, you know, really did kind of tell the story of what happened there every Sunday.

It was a different era.

It was the newspapers really drove the narrative at the at that time.

Did we got a question, did Kodak assist with any of the photography support at the stadium?

Kodak would bring in film for us to try, and I would listen to arguments as to why the Fuji looked better.

I, I could get into more detail, but we got five minutes, and, I don't want to I don't want to disparage our our hometown Kodak, but, Yeah, no, the Kodak would send, tax and reps and and they would try and, you know, work with the professionals and provide film.

But no, we hand we hand processed all of our film.

The Associated Press had their own darkroom, Reuters had their own darkroom.

So if you were from out of town, you contracted with one of those agencies and they process your film.

So AFC Championship game, the LA paper would send, oh, I don't know, six photographers.

And you would hand roll each of their rolls of film, plus the writer staff and whoever else needed something done.

You know, the AP would have, I don't know, two techs and a darkroom.

Just bring this back around to the stadium.

Rob.

Actually, here from the booth.

Part of what made it emotional for me is that I have a lot of close friends and loved ones that were fans and season ticket holders that have passed away, great emotional memories, and I think that was something Scott and you're and I'll we'll finish with you.

As I was reading your column, I was thinking about again where I grew up and going back to that stadium.

I said, to Max before this, like going back after not having been back for so many years, I remember feeling like it was like going to church.

I was going to somewhere that was kind of like your home, because you had memories of going there with your dad.

You had memories of family members who this is where their seats were.

This is what that game was when you were, however, years old.

And I guess just.

Yeah.

What what does a stadium mean?

It's a place.

It's a place where memories are made.

It's a repository of memories.

You keep making memories.

It's a place where friendships are made.

You'd be surprised the number of people who are sitting in the same clusters, the same seats, who went to family, you know, respective families, weddings, bar mitzvahs, birthdays, funerals.

So it's important.

And I saw a lot of people crying, bawling their eyes out the other night.

It was a celebration of life, really.

You know, saying goodbye to an old, old friend, an old special place.

And that's the power of of, these sporting venues.

And, we've seen it for generations here in Buffalo.

All right.

Scott.

Jamie.

Max.

Annette.

Thank you very much.

Yeah.

Thank you, thank you.

All right.

Go.

Bills.

Go.

Bills, bills.

Oh.

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