FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS  LIKE YOU.

Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, SEARCHING FOR SOLUTIONS, EXPERT ANALYSIS ON  SCHOOL VIOLENCE IN OUR COUNTRY AND HOW TO TAKE POLITICS OUT  OF THE EQUATION.

Schargel: WE HAVE BEEN HERE  BEFORE.

UNFORTUNATELY MY BELIEF IS WE  WILL BE HERE AGAIN.

Gene: AND THE DEVASTATING  IMPACT OF PFAS CONTAMINATION ON A NEW MEXICO CATTLE FARM.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST GENE GRANT.

WE NOW KNOW THE COMPLETE CAUSE  OF THE LARGEST FIRE IN NEW MEXICO HISTORY.

ACCORDING TO THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE, THE CALF CANYON FIRE  WAS ALSO STARTED BY ACTIONS TAKEN DURING CONTROLLED BURN  PRACTICES.

INITIALLY STARTED MONTHS AGO,  THE CALF CANYON FIRE EVENTUALLY COMBINED WITH THE  HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE WHICH ALSO STARTED AS A PRESCRIBED FIRE  THAT GOT OUT OF CONTROL IN EARLY APRIL.

THE BLAZE HAS ALREADY BURNED MORE THAN 315,000 ACRES IN THE  PROCESS.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW  I'LL ASK THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS ABOUT THE REACTION  FROM OUR STATE LEADERS AND A NEW INTERSTATE PROJECT COULD  BE STARTING SOON CONNECTING TO TEXAS' SOUTHERN BORDER AND  RUNNING THROUGH NEW MEXICO.

IN ABOUT AN HALF HOUR, WE'LL  EXPLORE THE IMPACT OF ADDING INTERNATIONAL TRADE ROUTES  THROUGH OUR STATE.

BUT FIRST, A RECURRING  HEADLINE OVER THE LAST DECADE IN THIS COUNTRY, A GROUP OF  CHILDREN KILLED BY GUNFIRE AT SCHOOL.

THIS TIME 19 ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENTS AND TWO TEACHERS IN  UVALDE, TEXAS.

THE INCIDENT HAS SHAKEN MANY  OF US BUT IT IS ALSO PUSHING PEOPLE TO DEMAND ANSWERS AND  SOLUTIONS THAT TRANSCEND THE POLITICAL DIVIDE.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO OUR LINE OPINION  PANELISTS THIS WEEK.

FORMER NEW MEXICO STATE  SENATOR DIANE SNYDER IS WITH US.

ATTORNEY SOPHIE MARTIN, ONE OF OUR REGULARS, OF COURSE, AND  ALGERNON D'AMMASSA, INVESTIGATIVE AND ENTERPRISE  REPORTER AT THE LAS CRUCES SUN NEWS.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE  HORROR THAT TOOK PLACE IN UVALDE, THE CONVERSATION  AROUND THE CRISIS AND GUNS TURNED POLITICAL.

OVER THE PAST FEW DECADES, GUN RIGHTS HAVE BECOME SO  INGRAINED, ESPECIALLY IN CONSERVATIVE IDENTITY.

IT SEEMS ANY PROPOSED CHANGE IS MET WITH BACKLASH.

SENATOR SNYDER LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS BACKLASH.

WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR THERE TO JUST START TO HAVE A  SUBSTANTIVE DISCUSSION ON GUN CONTROL?

WHAT ARE WE MISSING HERE TO BE ABLE TO SIT DOWN AND TALK  ACROSS THE AISLE ABOUT THIS?

Diane: PART OF IT, GENE, IS  THE FACT THAT IT IS USUALLY THE PEOPLE INVITED TO HAVE  THESE DISCUSSION ARE FROM THE EXTREMES OF BOTH SIDES AND I  DON'T THINK THAT IS HOW YOU GET THE PROBLEM SOLVED OR  STEPS OF RECOMMENDATION OF HOW SOME KIND OF COMPROMISE CAN  TAKE PLACE.

AND I KNOW THAT WORD  COMPROMISE HAS BECOME A DIRTY WORD IN MANY AREAS OF THIS  DISCUSSION, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS IN READING AND LOOKING  AT WHAT HAS BEEN DONE BOTH IN NEW MEXICO AND IN OTHER STATES  IS I THINK OUR TOP PRIORITY, ALTHOUGH GUN CONTROL MAY WELL  BE A PART OF IT AND THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT EVEN I  AGREE WITH, BUT THE FOCUS NEEDS TO BE ON THE ACTUAL  SECURITY OF THOSE CHILDREN.

WE SHOULD STOP HITTING EACH  BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS THERE.

IT WOULD TAKE A GREAT EFFORT  TO CHANGE IT AND THAT MAY HAPPEN SOME DAY, BUT IT IS NOT  THAT DIFFICULT TO MAKE SOME LEGISLATIVE CHANGES IN HOW  THINGS PROCEED.

WE HAVE DONE THAT IN SOME  STATES.

IT HAS -- IT HAS HAPPENED SOME  AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL BUT I THINK THE MAIN THING, AND I AM  NOT QUITE SURE HOW TO DO THIS, IS FIND THE MODERATES ON BOTH  SIDES THAT CAN SIT DOWN.

DON'T EXCLUDE THE EXTREMES ON  EACH SIDE BUT MAKE YOUR GROUP MORE A GROUP OF MODERATES AND  HAVE A DISCUSSION THAT NOTHING IS OFF THE TABLE BUT NOTHING  IS ON THE TABLE EITHER.

AND THE GOAL IS YOU MUST COME  UP WITH THREE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WILL INCREASE THE SAFETY  OF SCHOOL CHILDREN AND TEACHERS.

AND YOU HAVE TO FOCUS THAT THAT IS WHAT YOUR GOAL IS AND  I THINK THAT CAN BE DONE.

I KNOW THAT OUR COUNTRY IS  SPLIT IN MANY, MANY WAYS, THIS BEING ONE OF THEM, BUT I THINK  PEOPLE ARE CAPABLE OF MAKING THOSE TOUGH DECISIONS AND I  KNOW A LARGE NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS WHO ARE STRONG  SECOND AMENDMENT SUPPORTERS THAT   ARE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBLE ON A DEEPER OR MORE  INTENSE SCRUTINY OF PEOPLE WHO PURCHASE AN AR15.

AND I BELIEVE SOPHIE MENTIONED TO ME THIS MORNING, I BELIEVE  IT IS NEW YORK STATE, THAT THE SHOW THE NEED IS COMING UP --  AND SOPHIE CAN TELL US MORE ABOUT THIS -- IN THE SUPREME  COURT -- I PUT HER ON THE SPOT.

SORRY.

BUT I STILL THINK -- I KNOW  THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WE CAN SIT DOWN AND COME  UP WITH THREE SIMPLE THINGS THAT WILL PROTECT OUR  CHILDREN.

Gene: WELL SAID THERE.

SOPHIE, INTERESTING THAT SENATOR SNYDER BRINGS UP THE  SUPREME COURT BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING I WANT TO ASK YOU  ABOUT.

I KNOW   YOU KNOW THIS BUT FOR SOME FOLKS THIS ISSUE OF  OWNERSHIP REALLY TOOK OFF IN 2008 WHEN THE SUPREME COURT  KNOCKED DOWN THAT BAN ON FIREARMS IN THE DISTRICT OF  COLUMBIA.

Sophie: THAT IS RIGHT.

THE HELLER DECISION REALLY TRANSFORMED OUR COUNTRY'S  INTERPRETATION OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

PRIOR TO THAT TIME WE DIDN'T HAVE WHAT WE SEEM TO HAVE NOW  WHICH IS THESE REALLY ENTRENCHED VIEWS THAT THE  SECOND AMENDMENT MEANS THAT NOTHING CAN BE DONE.

AND I WANT TO TOUCH ON SOMETHING THAT DIANE WAS  TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF SCHOOL SHOOTING.

I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE ARE NOT  JUST LOOKING AT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

WE HAD THE RECENT GROCERY STORE SHOOTING IN BUFFALO.

WE HAD THE PULSE NIGHT CLUB.

WE HAVE ALL OF THESE  SHOOTINGS -- Gene: HOSPITAL SHOOTING IN  TULSA JUST THE OTHER DAY.

Sophie: THANK YOU.

AND A SECOND ONE AS I  UNDERSTAND IN OKLAHOMA AS WELL.

WE HAVE ALL THESE -- I HESITATE TO SAY INCIDENTS  BECAUSE IT IS MUCH WORSE THAN THAT BUT IF WE JUST FOCUS ON  THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE SECURITY IN SCHOOLS, WE ARE  MISSING THE BIGGER PICTURE WHICH, YES, THE SCHOOL  SHOOTINGS ARE TRAGIC AND SHOULD BE PREVENTED BUT THEY  ARE NOT THE ONLY SHOOTINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

AND WHILE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CAN TALK ABOUT, OH, WE NEED TO  HARDEN OUR SCHOOLS, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE HEARING FROM  ARCHITECTS AND SCHOOL PLANNERS, THAT IS NOT  PRACTICAL.

THINK ABOUT HAVING TO GO  THROUGH THE EQUIVALENT OF HAVING TO GO THROUGH A TSA  EVERY MORNING TO GET INTO SCHOOL.

LIKE, THAT IS NOT PRACTICAL IN MOST CONTEXTS.

BUT, THEN, ALSO IT DISTRACTS FROM THE ISSUE OF WE HAVE TOO  MANY GUNS IN THE HANDS OF PEOPLE WHO REALLY SHOULD NOT  HAVE THEM.

WE HAVE GREATER MAGAZINE  CAPACITY, GREATER FIRE POWER THAN WE HAD.

THERE IS A FASCINATING STUDY OUT OF NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE  THAT LOOKS AT WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE BAN ON ASSAULT RIFLES  CAME IN IN 1994.

YOU KNOW THERE WERE ALREADY A  LOT OF ASSAULT RIFLES IN PEOPLES' HAND.

THAT MATCHES TO A CERTAIN EXTENT WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

THERE WAS A SLOW DECLINE FOLLOWING IMPLEMENTATION OF  THAT LAW IN '94.

WHAT IS SO INTERESTING IS THAT  2004 THE LEGISLATION EXPIRES AND THE NUMBER OF SHOOTINGS,  MASS CASUALTY SHOOTINGS EXPLODES.

SO, I MEAN, I THINK WE HAVE ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD DATA,  EXPERIENTIAL DATE THAT SHOWS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO AND  DON'T HAVE SENSIBLE GUN CONTROL, WHICH, FROM MY  PERSPECTIVE, INCLUDES CONTROL OF ASSAULT RIFLES AS WE HAD  BEFORE.

THE OTHER THING I'LL SAY IS  THERE IS A GREAT PIECE IN THE NEW YORK TIMES RIGHT NOW, TWO  FORMER SUPREME COURT LAW CLERKS TALKING ABOUT THEIR OWN  EXPERIENCE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE HELLER DECISION AND  THEY WERE ON OPPOSITE SIDES AT THAT TIME BUT THEY BOTH SAY,  LOOK, THE HELLER DECISION DOES NOT MEAN WHAT YOU ALL THINK IT  MEANS.

YOU CAN STILL ENACT GUN  CONTROL AND, YOU KNOW, I FELT THE TAKE AWAY WAS, SO, WE  SHOULD DO THAT.

Gene: INTERESTING POINTS  THERE.

ALGERNON, LET ME DOVETAIL OFF  THAT AS WELL.

STICKING WITH THE SUPREME  COURT HERE, IT SEEMS TO ME THE CHESS BOARD OBVIOUS MOVE HERE.

IF ANOTHER STATES DECIDES THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE A POKE AT  THIS, IT WOULD OBVIOUSLY KICK UP TO THE SUPREME COURT.

IS THAT THE WAY TO GO HERE TO GET THE BALL MOVING TO GET THE  SUPREME TO KIND LOOK AT THIS AGAIN OR IS THE SUPREME COURT  SO LOADED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, IF YOU GET MY DRIFT  HERE, THAT MIGHT NOT BE A GOOD  MOVE EITHER.

YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN HERE?

THERE IS A WAY TO GET THE BALL MOVING DEPENDING WHICH STATE  IS WILLING TO DO IT.

D'Ammassa: YES.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE AVENUE THAT IS GOING TO BRING  US TO PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEM THAT WE ARE  DISCUSSING.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS A  SINGLE SENTENCE THAT MAKES EXPLICIT REFERENCE TO MILITIA  SERVICE AND THIS IS PART OF THE ARGUMENT THAT WE ARE SORT  OF STUCK IN AS FAR AS FRAMING THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT LIBERTY  AS OPPOSED TO DISCUSSION ABOUT WHY IS IT A UNIQUELY AMERICAN  PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE ENDEMIC GUN VIOLENCE IN PUBLIC PLACES.

AND I AM SKEPTICAL ABOUT ANY EXPLANATION THAT ATTRIBUTES  ONE SINGLE SOLUTION OR ONE SINGLE FACTOR TO THAT PROBLEM,  OF COURSE, BUT I DO KNOW IT IS A UNIQUELY AMERICAN PROBLEM  AND AS LONG AS THE CONVERSATION IS STUCK ON THE  CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT APPEARS IN OUR BILL OF RIGHTS,  WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL PROBLEM THAT IS LEADING  TO THE DEATHS OF MASSES OF ADULTS AND CHILDREN.

WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING ABOUT THE PROSPECTS OF SECURITY  FEATURES AT SCHOOLS AND TSA LINES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, AND  THIS IS SORT OF A PALLIATIVE MEASURE, AN ADAPTATION TO  MADNESS.

AND IT DOESN'T ADDRESS THE  ROOT CAUSE OF THAT.

I AM JUST REMINDED OF STANDING  IN A TSA LINE AT LOS ANGELES INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT.

THIS LONG LINE OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD MAKE A PRETTY JUICY  TARGET FOR SOMEBODY WHO HAD INTENTIONS OF WANTING TO  INFLICT MASS VIOLENCE, PLUS THIS WAS AT A TIME WHEN THEY  WERE REMOVING LIQUIDS FROM PEOPLES' LUGGAGE BECAUSE IT  MIGHT CONTAIN LIQUID EXPLOSIVES BUT DISCARDING IT  IN A WASTE BASKET RIGHT NEXT TO THE LINE WHERE EVERYBODY  WAS PULLED UP.

SO, THERE IS THIS ASPECT OF  SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS CAN BECOME THEATRICAL, SO-CALLED  SECURITY THEATER.

I THINK AS LONG AS WE ARE  ADOPTING TO MADNESS AND NOT TRYING TO ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE  SICKNESS ITSELF, WE ARE GOING TO BE SPINNING AROUND THIS  DRAIN.

Gene: INTERESTING POINT  THERE.

THERE IS A MEME OUT THERE ON  FACEBOOK FROM ONE FAILED SHOE BOMBER ATTEMPT WE ARE ALL  HAVING TO SUFFER WITH THIS SHOE THING AT TSA.

NO ONE EXPECTS ANY SHOE BOMB TO BE A REAL THING.

IT IS CRAZY.

SENATOR, INTERESTING, THE  CONVERSATION AROUND EXPANDED MENTAL HEALTH SERVICE FOR  STUDENTS HAS THANK GOODNESS PICKED UP A BIT.

THAT WOULD LIKELY REQUIRE MORE COUNSELORS IN SCHOOLS AND OUR  GOVERNOR HAS CERTAINLY SHOWED HER SUPPORT FOR EDUCATORS  CERTAINLY INCREASING PAY RAISE ACROSS THE STATE.

YOU KNOW.

SHOULD SHE OR THE LEGISLATURE  TAKE ACTION THAT SPECIFICALLY TARGETS SUPPORT STAFF LIKE  COUNSELORS IF WE HAVE TO GO TO A SCHEME WHERE THERE IS MORE  SECURITY?

BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE ARE ASKING  KIDS TO DO SOMETHING, JUST SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE NOT  THINKING ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH ASPECT OF LINING UP AND  BEING SEARCHED OR SCANNED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF THAT?

Diane: A COUPLE THINGS,  GENE.

ONE IS, I BELIEVE THIS WEEK  APS EXTENDED THE TEACHER RAISES TO COUNSELORS, NURSES  AND PROFESSIONALS LIKE THAT.

I THINK THAT WAS EXTREMELY  IMPORTANT.

THEY DO A TREMENDOUS JOB AND  WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM EITHER BUT I THINK MAYBE, AND  THIS IS JUST A SMALL PIECE, IS WE FOCUS -- I ALWAYS HEAR, OH,  WELL, AFTER A SHOOTING, OH, WE BROUGHT IN ALL THESE  COUNSELORS TO TALK TO EVERYBODY.

WHY DIDN'T WE HAVE ALL THOSE COUNSELORS BEFORE THE  SHOOTING?

I MEAN, WITH WHAT I HAVE READ  ABOUT THE YOUNG MAN WHO ALLEGEDLY DID THE KILLING IN  UVALDE THERE WERE ALL KINDS OF SIGNS PRIOR TO THE DAY OF THE  SHOOTING.

AND IF WE HAD -- IF WE FOCUSED  ON -- AGAIN, IT IS JUST ONE PIECE OF HAVING COUNSELORS,  TEACHERS, TRAINING OUR TEACHERS JUST TO BE AWARE, NOT  TO HAVE TO DO ANYTHING, BUT JUST IN THE SAME WAY THAT WE  ASK THEM TO REPORT SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE.

IT DOESN'T DO ANY HARM IF A TEACHER OR A COUNSELOR,  WHOEVER SUSPECTS THERE IS A PROBLEM, AND TURN IT OVER TO  THE COUNSELORS, LET THE COUNSELOR TALK TO THE STUDENT  AND MOVE FROM THERE.

BECAUSE, THE MORE AND MORE I  READ ABOUT UVALDE, I JUST GO, HOW DID THIS PARTICULAR  INCIDENT HAPPEN?

THERE WERE MANY, MANY STOP  POINTS ALONG THE WAY.

Gene: ESPECIALLY FROM THE  COMMUNITY.

THEY KNEW HIM, THEY KNEW WHAT  HE WAS ABOUT FROM THE GRANDMA AS WELL WHO TRAGICALLY WAS  SHOT BY ME.

Diane: HIS LIFE AND ALL THE  KINDS OF THINGS AND THERE WAS JUST TOO MUCH, TO ME -- TOO  MUCH OF THE FOCUS IS, OKAY, WE HAVE HAD 21 PEOPLE KILLED SO  NOW LET'S SEND IN THE COUNSELORS TO TAKE CARE OF IT.

I CAN SEE OUR OR STATE LEGISLATURE, AS I SAID, IT IS  ONLY ONE PIECE, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME PREVENTIVE  NOT JUST FOLLOW-UP.

Gene: I WANT TO KICKBACK TO  ALGERNON FOR A QUICK SECOND IF YOU GUYS WILL INDULGE ME.

YOU WROTE AN INTERESTING PIECE FOLLOWING THE SURROUNDING  TOPIC.

YOU WROTE A PIECE ABOUT HOW WE  LABEL THESE INCIDENTS.

SAYING THE TERM TRAGEDY IS A  MISNOMER OF SORTS.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT AND FLUSH  OUT WHAT YOU WROTE.

I THOUGHT IT WAS TERRIFIC.

Algernon: JUST TO BE CLEAR, IT IS NOT WRONG TO REFER TO A  CATACLYSMIC EVENT AS A TRAGEDY.

IN FACT, I THINK THAT CAN BE PSYCHOLOGICALLY HEALTHY,  EMOTIONALLY HEALTHY TO FRAME LOSS IN THOSE TERMS, BUT I AM  CONCERNED ABOUT OUR LACK OF VOCABULARY AND THE FACT THAT  AN EARTHQUAKE MIGHT BE CALLED A TRAGEDY IN THE SAME QUANTITY  THAT AN INCIDENT THAT IS -- THAT HAS HUMAN ORIGIN, CAN BE  FRAMED USING THE SAME NOUN.

AND WHAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT  IS THAT WHEN WE CONSTANTLY SPEAK OF THESE TRAGEDIES,  THESE EVENTS AS TRAGEDIES, THIS VIOLENCE THAT MAY OR MAY  NOT BE PREVENTABLE THAT IS THE RESULT OF HUMAN ACTION, WHAT  HAPPENS IS THAT WE CAN START TALKING ABOUT IT IN A WAY THAT  MAKES IT SEEM LIKE A NATURAL EVENT IN THE SAME WAY THAT AN  EARTHQUAKE MIGHT BE.

AND THAT CAN LEAD TO A KIND OF  QUIETISM, A KIND OF -- THERE IS A CERTAIN REPETITION TO  THESE THINGS HAPPENING AGAIN THAT I THINK DOMINATES THE  NEED TO THINK OF THESE THINGS AS SITUATIONS REQUIRING  SOLUTIONS, REQUIRING URGENT ACTION.

I HAVE A 14-YEAR OLD SON WHO IS ABOUT TO GRADUATE FROM  BEING HOME SCHOOLED ALL HIS LIFE TO A PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL.

AND IN ADDITION TO ALL THE THINGS THAT WE ARE DOING TO  PREPARE HIM FOR THIS, I HAVE HAD TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH  HIM ABOUT THAT THIS IS A FEATURE OF OUR WORLD AND  THAT -- HONESTLY, HE IS NOT, FROM HIS QUESTIONS, HE IS NOT  SCARED.

HE IS BAFFLED.

HE IS JUST BAFFLED AT THE LACK  OF A WILL AND LACK OF A COLLECTIVE ETHICAL RESPONSE TO  THIS SITUATION WHICH IS WHAT PROMPTED THAT PIECE, PROMPTED  ME TO WRITE THAT PIECE IS THAT THROUGH THE EYES OF A TEENAGER  IT IS BAFFLING THAT WE CAN'T ARRIVE AT RESOLVE TO FIND AN  ETHICAL SOLUTION OR EVEN HAVE SERIOUS CONVERSATIONS ABOUT  IT.

Gene: GOOD POINT.

THANK YOU.

GLAD YOU GOT THAT IN.

THANK YOU ALL FOR THAT DIFFICULT CONVERSATION.

APPRECIATE THAT A BUNCH.

SEE YOU ALL BACK AT THE  VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE IN A LITTLE OVER 10 MINUTES.

FIRST, THE PERSPECTIVE OF AN EXPERT EDUCATOR WHO SPENT  DECADES IN THE CLASSROOM AND NOW TRYING TO ELEVATE  DISCUSSIONS SURROUNDING EDUCATION'S BIGGEST ISSUES,  INCLUDING SCHOOL VIOLENCE.

HERE IS PRODUCER LOU DIVISIO.

Lou: MY GUEST TODAY IS FORMER TEACHER, NOW SPEAKER,  AUTHOR AND NOW EDUCATIONAL CONSULTANT, FRANKLIN SCHARGEL.

HE LIVES IN ALBUQUERQUE, WRITTEN 14 BOOKS ON  EDUCATION-RELATED TOPICS.

THAT INCLUDES HIS LATEST  PUBLISHED EARLIER THIS YEAR "PREVENTING SCHOOL VIOLENCE, A  USERS GUIDE."

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US  TODAY, MR. SCHARGEL.

Schargel: THANK YOU FOR THE  INVITATION.

Lou: CAN YOU START BY  TELLING US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR HISTORY AND  EDUCATION?

Schargel: I WAS RAISED IN  NEW YORK CITY AND SPENT ALL MY PROFESSIONAL LIFE WORKING IN  NEW YORK CITY HIGH SCHOOLS STARTING FIRST AT BENJAMIN  FRANKLIN HIGH SCHOOL IN HARLEM AND THEN WENT INTO THE ARMY  AND THEN CAME OUT.

AND THE BOARD OF EDUCATION  REWARDED ME, I THINK, FOR MY SERVICE IN THE MILITARY AND  SENT ME TO ONE OF THE BEST HIGH SCHOOLS IN THE CITY OF  NEW YORK, JAMISON MADISON HIGH SCHOOL.

RUTH BADER GINSBURG GRADUATED FROM THAT SCHOOL.

CHUCK SCHUMER GRADUATED FROM THAT SCHOOL   AND THE SCHOOL WAS FINE.

I WAS THERE FOR 22 YEARS AND THEN THE SCHOOL WAS  INTEGRATED.

THE SCHOOL WAS LARGELY  COMPRISED, LARGELY JEWISH AND ITALIAN, AND THEN THEY BROUGHT  IN AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDENTS AND WE HAD A RACE RIOT.

ONE STUDENT WAS SHOT AND KILLED IN THE SCHOOL  PROTECTING HIS LEATHER JACKET, SO I TRANSFERRED TO GEORGE  WESTINGHOUSE CAREER AND TECHNICAL HIGH SCHOOL AND A  STUDENT WAS SHOT AND PARALYZED BY AN INTRUDER, EVEN THOUGH WE  HAD METAL DETECTION AT THE FRONT DOOR AND SCHOOL SAFETY  OFFICERS CALLED RESOURCE OFFICERS IN THE SCHOOL.

WHILE AT WESTINGHOUSE I DEVELOPED 15 STRATEGIES WHICH  WOULD STOP CHILDREN FROM DROPPING OUT OF SCHOOL.

WESTINGHOUSE IS A TITLE I SCHOOL WHICH IS ALL MINORITY.

AND IT REDUCED THE DROPOUT RATE DOCUMENTED FROM 21.9 TO  2.1%, AND SENT 72% OF OUR FIRST GENERATION HIGH SCHOOL  GRADUATES TO POSTSECONDARY SCHOOL.

AND DEVELOPED 15 STRATEGIES.

TWO GOVERNORS HERE IN NEW  MEXICO SAW WHAT I WAS DOING.

WE ALSO HAD A PBS SPECIAL AND  ASKED MY, INVITED ME HERE, AND SO I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 23  YEARS, ALMOST 23 YEARS.

Lou: OBVIOUSLY, WITH THOSE  TWO HORRIBLE STORIES YOU DO HAVE HISTORY, FIRSTHAND  HISTORY, WITH SCHOOL VIOLENCE.

AND HOW DISHEARTENING NOW TO  SEE IT HAS PERSISTED THIS LONG AND IS THAT WHY YOU DECIDED TO  WRITE THIS BOOK NOW?

Schargel: THE ANSWER IS  YES.

I AM EXTREMELY DISTRAUGHT  ABOUT THIS WHOLE INCIDENT IN TEXAS.

WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE.

UNFORTUNATELY, MY BELIEF IS,  WE WILL BE HERE AGAIN.

THAT BOOK TOOK THREE YEARS OF  MY LIFE.

THE RESEARCH CAME FROM FBI,  SECRET SERVICE, NATIONAL THREAT ASSESSMENTS AGENCY,  NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH AND CENSUS FOR DISEASE CONTROL  AND PREVENTION.

AS WELL AS MY PERSONAL  EXPERIENCE.

Lou: IN THAT RESEARCH AND  AFTER THE HORRIFYING EVENTS IN UVALDE, DID YOU FIND ANY CLUES  TO THE QUESTION THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ASKING NOW, WHICH  IS WHY DOES THIS ONLY SEEM TO BE HAPPENING IN THE UNITED  STATES?

Schargel: FIRST OF ALL, IT  IS AVAILABILITY OF WEAPONS.

WE HAVE MORE WEAPONS IN THE  UNITED STATES THAN WE HAVE PEOPLE.

AND THAT IS AN ESTIMATE FROM THE FBI AND SECRETE SERVICE  AND NATIONAL THREAT ASSESSMENT.

SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE AN EXACT COUNT AND IT IS NOT  SPREAD EVENLY ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

THE AVERAGE GUN OWNER OWNS EIGHT GUNS.

WE JUST HAVE TOO MANY GUNS IN THE COUNTRY AND WE ALSO HAVE  FAR MORE WEAPONS OF WAR.

THE AR15 IS A WEAPON OF WAR.

IT DOESN'T SEND OUT A BULLET THAT IS AS IN THE MOVIES.

IT TUMBLES.

IT IS A HIGH VELOCITY AND WE  ARE SELLING CLIPS WITH 15 OR 30 ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION.

SO WITHIN SECONDS, THOSE BULLETS ARE SPIT OUT AND  TUMBLE AND RIP BODIES APART.

AND SO, I CAN IMAGINE THE  HORROR OF THESE PARENTS HAVING TO BRING, IN TEXAS, HAVING TO  BRING DNA BECAUSE THE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN SHREDDED.

Lou: WE HAVE HEARD RHETORIC FROM BOTH SIDES POLITICALLY  SPEAKING AND FROM PRO GUN ACTIVISTS AND CONSERVATIVE  FACTIONS, IT IS KIND OF THE SAME STUFF, LIKE,  MITIGATING -- MITIGATION SOLUTIONS KIND OF, LIKE ARMY  TEACHERS, THAT IS ONE THROWN AROUND.

SOCIAL MEDIA WE HAVE SEEN IDEAS LIKE GIVING KIDS KEVLAR  BACKPACKS.

ARE THESE REACTIONARY STEPS A  VIABLE SOLUTION?

Schargel: ABSOLUTELY NOT.

FIRST OF ALL, THE AVERAGE EDUCATOR WENT INTO EDUCATION  BECAUSE THEY LOVE CHILDREN AND 70 TO 80% ARE FEMALE.

I WOULD NOT WANT AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOLTEACHER IN A CLASSROOM  WITH 9 AND 10 YEAR OLDS TO HAVE A WEAPON   TO BE USED.

SECOND, ARMY TEACHERS -- WHEN  I GOT MY DRIVER'S LICENSE, I HAD TO TAKE A DRIVERS TEST.

THE KILLER IN TEXAS SIMPLY WALKED INTO A STORE AND  PURCHASED A WEAPON OF WAR AND THAT IS AN INSANITY.

YOU CAN'T HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE UNLESS YOU TAKE THE  TEST.

WHEN I WENT INTO THE MILITARY  I HAD TO TAKE EIGHT WEEKS OF TRAINING LEARNING HOW TO FIRE  A WEAPON AND QUALIFY FOR THAT WEAPON.

THAT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT NOW.

WE NEED TO START PUTTING SOME  RESTRICTIONS, ESPECIALLY ON WEAPONS OF WAR SO THAT  SOMEBODY CAN'T WALK INTO A STORE AND SAY, I WOULD LIKE  THE WEAPON.

I JUST TURNED 18 AND HAVE TO  WAIT UNTIL HE IS 21 IN ORDER TO DRIVE A CAR.

Lou: SOMETHING WE HAVE HEARD FOR YEARS NOW IN MASS  SHOOTINGS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT A SCHOOL IS  INVOLVED IS THAT GOOD GUY WITH A GUN SOLVES ALL MENTALITY OR  THEORY.

DOES YOUR RESEARCH SUPPORT  THAT THAT IS VALID?

Schargel: NO.

I THINK WE ARE GETTING DISTORTED EVIDENCE.

FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE PREPARING STUDENTS FOR THE WRONG KIND OF  AN INTRUDER.

WITH EXCEPTION OF SANDY HOOK  WHERE ANOTHER ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WAS INVOLVED IN  CONNECTICUT, THE STUDENTS -- MOST OF THE INCIDENTS ARE  CAUSED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE FORMER STUDENTS, STUDENTS IN  THE SCHOOL OR STUDENTS IN OTHER SCHOOLS.

THEY ARE NOT INTRUDERS.

WE ARE NOT PREPARING THE  SCHOOLS TO DEAL WITH THE REALITIES OF THE SITUATION BUT  THE REALITIES THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO.

WE ARE ALSO SPENDING A LARGE SUM OF MONEY, I HAVE READ  VARIOUS FIGURES.

IT IS IN THE BILLIONS OF  DOLLARS ACROSS THE U.S. TO PREPARE SCHOOLS FOR ARMAMENT,  PUTTING IN METAL DETECTORS AND PUTTING IN -- METAL DETECTORS  IN SCHOOLS DON'T WORK.

THERE ARE TOO MANY ENTRANCES  AND EXITS.

THEY ARE UNLIKE AIRPORTS OR  EVEN SUPERMARKETS WHERE THERE IS BASICALLY ONE OR TWO  ENTRANCES.

IF YOU'RE IN A HIGH SCHOOL  THAT HAS 1800 OR 3500 STUDENTS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE  MULTIPLE EXITS AND THEY HAVE TO BE OPEN.

YOU CANNOT HAVE THEM LOCKED.

YOU DO HAVE, YOU KNOW,  POWER -- BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE SCHOOLS -- BECAUSE IF THERE IS  A FIRE, GOD FORBID, THOSE STUDENTS WILL NOT GET OUT.

ALSO PART OF WHAT THE BOOK RECOMMENDS IS WE SHOULD STOP  ANYONE WHO COMES INTO A SCHOOL WITH BULLET PROOF BOOK BAGS.

THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.

THAT BOOK BAG SHOULD BE MADE OUT OF CLEAR PLASTIC.

SO, IF ANYONE IS BRINGING A WEAPON INTO A SCHOOL, WHETHER  IT BE A GUN OR A KNIFE OR A BAYONET OR WHATEVER, IT WOULD  BE MORE VISIBLE.

WE ARE NEVER GOING TO STOP  ALL -- BASICALLY CRAZY PEOPLE FROM COMING INTO THE SCHOOLS  WITH WEAPONS BUT WE CAN CUT DOWN ON IT IF WE GET AHEAD OF  THE CURVE AND PREVENT IT INSTEAD OF DEALING WITH THE  DRAMATIZATION AFTER IT TAKES PLACE.

Lou: IN NEW MEXICO WE HAVE DEALT WITH THE HORRIFYING  REALITY OF A SCHOOL SHOOTING RECENTLY.

13 YEAR OLD WAS SHOT -- OR SHOT AND KILLED A CLASSMATE AT  LUNCH AT WASHINGTON MIDDLE SCHOOL LAST YEAR.

IN RESPONSE DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE HOUSE INTRODUCED  LEGISLATION THAT WOULD STRENGTHEN CONSEQUENCES FOR  ADULTS WHO FAIL TO KEEP GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF MINORS.

IS THAT A NECESSARY STEP?

Schargel: THAT IS ON THE  RIGHT PATH BUT WE NEED TO IDENTIFY AS THE BOOK DOES  SEVERAL STEPS BEFORE AN EVENT TAKES PLACE.

WE NEED TO PROVIDE ENOUGH MENTAL HEALTH FOR YOUNGSTERS.

WE HAVE SCHOOL SAFETY OFFICERS AND THEY ARE A VITAL NECESSITY  ESPECIALLY IN TODAY'S WORLD ESPECIALLY IN THE UNITED  STATES, BUT WE ALSO NEED MENTAL HEALTH.

WE DO NOT HAVE AN ADEQUATE NUMBER OF SCHOOL COUNSELORS.

WE DO NOT HAVE AN ADEQUATE NUMBER OF SCHOOL  PSYCHOLOGISTS.

WE HAVE SCHOOL NURSES WHO  TRAVEL FROM SCHOOL TO SCHOOL.

THE AVERAGE CASE LOAD OF  SCHOOL COUNSELORS IN THE UNITED STATES IS ONE COUNSELOR  TO 450 STUDENTS.

THAT IS PROVIDING CRASH  COUNSELING.

THERE IS NOT A SUFFICIENT  NUMBER AND WE ARE LOSING TEACHERS.

AND THIS INCIDENT IN UVALDE IS SIMPLY GOING TO MAKE IT WORSE.

I HAVE SPOKEN TO TEACHERS HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE WHO ARE SAYING  THEY ARE NOT GOING BACK, THEY ARE SUBMITTING PAPERS FOR  RETIREMENT LEAVE.

EDUCATION WEEK REPORTED THAT  ONE OUT OF EVERY FIVE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENTS WILL BE  RETIRING IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

THAT'S SCHOOL LEADERSHIP.

THAT IS PROVIDING A VISION.

WE DO NOT HAVE ADEQUATE NUMBER OF SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS.

WE ARE ASKING TEACHERS, IN ADDITION TO TEACHING THEIR  CASE LOAD AND DEVELOPING LESSON PLANS, TO TEACH  ADDITIONAL CLASSES WHERE WE DO NOT HAVE AN ADEQUATE NUMBER OF  SPECIAL ED TEACHERS AND WE CAN'T FIND SPECIAL ED TEACHERS  WHO HAVE GOT TO HAVE SPECIALIZED TRAINING.

THE FUTURE OF AMERICA IS IN ITS CLASSROOMS AND I BELIEVE  THAT CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE AND POLITICIANS NEED TO   RECOGNIZE THAT.

BECAUSE THE FIRST QUESTION PEOPLE ASK WHEN THEY MOVE INTO  A NEW COMMUNITY IS HOW ARE YOUR SCHOOLS?

NOW THEY ARE GOING TO BE ASKING, HOW SAFE ARE YOUR  SCHOOLS?

Lou: NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR  RECENTLY ENACTED AND THE LEGISLATURE ALSO, THE PAY  RAISES FOR TEACHERS, HOPING THAT WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO  JOIN THE WORKFORCE.

OBVIOUSLY THAT IS A STEP IN  THE RIGHT DIRECTION FOR KEEPING AND RETAINING, BUT  WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO CHANGE AS FAR AS MENTALITY OF PROTECTING  OUR EDUCATORS AND VALUING OUR EDUCATORS.

Schargel: FIRST OF ALL, IT WAS A GOOD FIRST STEP ON THE  PART OF OUR GOVERNOR BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THE GOVERNOR  CAN ORDER TO GET AN ADEQUATE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN  CLASSROOMS, WARM BODIES IN CLASSROOMS, HAD TO RECRUIT THE  NATIONAL GUARD TO GO INTO CLASSROOMS AND SERVE AS  TEACHERS WITHOUT ADEQUATE TRAINING.

SO, YES, RAISING THE SALARY OF EDUCATORS IS A VITAL PART OF  THAT PROCESS BUT WE STILL HAVE SCHOOL AIDES OUR SCHOOLS THAT  ARE MAKING LESS MONEY TODAY THAN IF THEY WORKED AT  WAL-MART OR IF THEY DROVE A TRUCK.

NOW, TRUCKS ARE ALSO A VITAL NECESSITY IN OUR ECONOMY  ESPECIALLY WITH THE SITUATION WE ARE NOW FACING WITH  COVID-19 BUT STARTING -- WAL-MART IS STARTING THEIR  TRUCK DRIVERS AT $100,000.

A TEACHER HERE NOW STARTS AT  $50,000.

AND SCHOOL AIDES, AS I POINTED  OUT ARE MAKING LESS THAN $15.

AS I POINTED OUT OUR  BUSINESSES HAVE GOT TO GET INVOLVED WITH OUR SCHOOLS.

OUR CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE HAVE GOT TO REALIZE THAT SCHOOLS  ARE A VITAL NECESSITY TO THE ECONOMY OF THE CITY OF  ALBUQUERQUE AND THE STATE.

Lou: YOU MENTIONED MENTAL  HEALTH SERVICES NOT TOO LONG AGO AND, YOU KNOW, AS IT SEEMS  TO BE, IT HAS TURNED INTO AN EITHER/OR CONVERSATION FOR A  LOT OF PEOPLE, GUN RIGHTS OR GUN CONTROL OR MENTAL HEALTH  SERVICES BUT THAT IS NOT REALLY THE REALITY IS IT?

THOSE TWO CAN WORK TOGETHER.

Schargel: THERE IS A  SECTION IN THE BOOK WHICH I CALL CHILD ANXIETY STRESS AND  TRAUMA.

EVERYONE GOES THROUGH ANXIETY,  STRESS AND TRAUMA.

YOU AND I HAVE BOTH GONE  THROUGH AND CONTINUE TO GO THROUGH ANXIETY, STRESS AND  TRAUMA AND I AM SURE COVID-19 HAS INCREASED THAT.

BUT WE HAVE MECHANISMS TO DEAL WITH IT.

A FOUR, FIVE, SIX, 10-YEAR OLD, 12-YEAR OLD, 15-YEAR OLD  CHILD DOES NOT HAVE THOSE  MECHANISMS AND THEY GO THROUGH ANXIETY, STRESS AND TRAUMA.

PRIOR TO PUBLICATION I HAD TWO PSYCHOLOGISTS READ THAT  SECTION AND BECAUSE I CALLED THAT CHILD PTSD AND BOTH OF  THEM CAME BACK AND SAID, FRANKLIN, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY  RIGHT BECAUSE THE SYMPTOMS ARE IDENTICAL.

SO, WE RECOGNIZE PTSD AMONG OUR VETS WHO ARE RETURNING  FROM COMBAT SITUATIONS.

WE ARE NOT RECOGNIZING IT  AMONG OUR CHILDREN.

Lou: MR. FRANKLIN SCHARGEL,  THANKS JOINING US TODAY AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

Schargel: THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION.

THANK YOU FOR THE TIME.

Sec.

Kenney:   IT'S PRETTY HORRIFIC.

IT IS A PRETTY TERRIBLE EVENT AND ONE THAT WE WERE HOPING  THAT THE COWS WOULD METABOLIZE THE PFAS BUT AFTER MULTIPLE  YEARS, THE LEVELS HAVE NOT COME DOWN.

THEIR MAGNITUDE IS HIGHER THAN WHAT WE EXPECTED OR HOPED THEM  TO BE TO TREAT THEM AS MORE  LIKE A SOLID WASTE.

Gene:   RECENT FEDERAL LEGISLATION COULD LEAD TO A  NEW INTERSTATE HIGHWAY CUTTING THROUGH NEW MEXICO.

THE PROPOSED STRETCH OF ROAD WOULD CONNECT INTERSTATE 27 IN  LAREDO, TEXAS TO INTERSTATE 25 UP IN RATON.

NOW, JUST SOUTH OF COLORADO BORDER, IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW  THAT.

LET'S WELCOME BACK THE LINE  OPINION PANEL.

THIS HAS MAJOR IMPLICATIONS  FOR A LARGE PART OF NEW MEXICO.

ALGERNON, START WITH YOU DOWN SOUTH THERE.

WHAT DO YOU HEAR ABOUT THE IMPACT IT WOULD HAVE IN YOUR  AREA OF LAS CRUCES?

Algernon: IT IS NOT ENTIRELY CLEAR HOW MUCH DIRECT  IMPACT THAT HAS BUT TRADE DOES HAVE A WAY OF BENEFITING THE  WHOLE STATE AND DOWN IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF NEW MEXICO WE  ARE A VERY CRUCIAL GATEWAY TO TRADE WITH MEXICO.

WE HAVE PORTS OF ENTRY WHICH ARE NOT AS LARGE AS OUR  COMPANION PORTS IN THE EL PASO AREA.

HOWEVER, GIVEN RECENT EVENTS AS WELL AS SOME RECENT  INVESTMENTS IN OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, WE HAVE A LOT  COMING THROUGH FROM THE U.S. MEXICO BORDER THAT IS SHARED  BY NEW MEXICO.

SO, I MEAN, A HIGHWAY IN THE  NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE FACILITATING TRADE AND ALSO  JUST DIVERTING ROUTES THAT CAN SOMETIMES BE JAMMED ON SOME OF  OUR OLDER ROADS, REALLY DOES HAVE A WAY OF SORT OF  SPREADING LIKE A BLOOD VESSEL SYSTEM ACROSS THE STATE,  HELPING THINGS MOVE AROUND LOGISTICALLY.

Gene: IS I READ IT, THE FOLKS IN TEXAS ARE VERY  EXCITED ACTUALLY.

THEY SEEM TO BE MORE EXCITED  THAN WE ARE.

HENRY CUELLAR A BUNCH OF  OTHERS, SAYING THE TEXAS GDP WOULD GROW BY SEVENTEEN  BILLION DOLLARS CREATING 178,000 CONSTRUCTION JOBS AND  17,000 LONG-TERM EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES.

WHY ARE THEY MORE EXCITED ABOUT IT THAN WE ARE?

IS THERE SOMETHING IN IT FOR THEM WE ARE NOT CATCHING ON TO  HERE?

Sophie: RECREATIONAL  MARIJUANA.

D'Ammassa: I DON'T REALLY  KNOW IF THEY ARE MORE EXCITED.

I MEAN, I THINK THE DIRECT  IMPACT FOR TEXAS IS VERY CLEAR AND IT IS ALSO TURNING A PAGE  ON THE INCIDENT THAT TOOK PLACE IN APRIL WHERE SOME OF  THE CROSS BOUNDARY TRAFFIC WAS HELD UP BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW,  BECAUSE OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR DECIDED TO DO WITH SECONDARY  INSPECTIONS OF COMMERCIAL TRUCKS.

IT TURNS A PAGE ON THAT AND IT IS ACTUALLY A STORY ABOUT  BUILDING SOMETHING AND CONNECTING TO A DIFFERENT PART  OF THE COUNTRY AND FACILITATING WHAT WILL LEAD TO  JOBS AND ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

Gene: LET'S BRING IT CLOSER  TO HOME.

SOPHIE, PEOPLE LIVING IN  ALBUQUERQUE AND SANTA FE, EASY FOR US TO FORGET  TRANSPORTATION ISSUES ALMOST EVERY CITY IN THE STATE FACES  BUT CAN WE UNDERSCORE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS FOR SMALLER  COMMUNITIES IN THE EASTERN PART OF STATE?

KIND OF A BIG DEAL WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

Sophie: IT IS GOING TO BE HUGE FOR RATON.

AND I NEED TO SORT OF PUT THE DISCLAIMER OUT THERE THAT A  LITTLE OVER 10 YEARS AGO I DID DO SOME TOURISM WORK FOR  RATON, SO, THERE IS THAT, NOT IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, SO MUCH OF RATON'S ECONOMY IS BUILT  AROUND TRANSPORTATION AND IS BUILT AROUND THE TRAFFIC  THERE.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, A LITTLE OVER  10 YEARS AGO, THEN MAYOR OF RATON WOULD JOKE THAT SUCH A  HUGE PORTION OF THEIR BUDGET WAS BUILT ON THE FACT THAT THE  SPEED LIMIT DIPS WHEN YOU GET TO RATON AND THEN GOES BACK  UP, YOU KNOW, THEY REALLY DO, THAT CITY, THAT TOWN, DOES  BENEFIT FROM THE TRAFFIC AND I THINK THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE  TRUE FOR THE COMMUNITIES AROUND THERE AS WELL.

NOT TO MENTION THEIR EASE IN GETTING AROUND, GETTING INTO  TEXAS, ET CETERA.

SO, I MEAN, I WAS JOKING  BEFORE, TOO, ABOUT THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA THING BUT, I AM  SORRY, RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA THING, BUT, YOU KNOW, TEXANS  DO COME TO NEW MEXICO, AS WE KNOW.

SANTA FEANS KNOW VERY WELL AND HAVING ADDITIONAL ROUTES  REALLY DOES OPEN UP THE NORTHEASTERN PART OF THE  STATE.

Gene: I WOULD BE INTERESTED  WHERE THE EXITS AND ENTRANCES ARE GOING TO BE PLANNED.

THAT IS A BIG DEAL.

THAT IS A BIG LOBBYING EFFORT  RIGHT THERE.

ACCORDING TO ONE FIGURE THE  GROUP -- WHAT I MENTIONED ABOUT TEXAS, THE YEARS LONG  CONSTRUCTION PROJECT WILL CREATE MORE A MILLION NEW  JOBS.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT NUMBER.

BUT A 287 BILLION-DOLLAR INCREASE IN GDP   ALONG THE CORRIDOR.

THAT IS NO SMALL MONEY, YOU KNOW.

SHOULD WE BE LOBBYING HARD FOR THIS IF THAT KIND OF MONEY IS  AT STAKE?

Diane:   DID YOU ASK ME?

Gene: YES.

Diane: SORRY, I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT.

YEAH, SURE, WE SHOULDN'T IGNORE IT, CERTAINLY, BUT I  HAVE TO TELL YOU, I JUST READ THE HEADLINES AND STUFF FIRST  AND I WENT, WHAT?

OUR INTERSTATES HERE, THE ONES  WE HAVE, ARE SO BAD, WHY ARE WE BUILDING NEW ONES INSTEAD  OF FIXING ALL THESE.

AND THEN I STARTED LOOKING AT  IT AND I WAS GOING, WOW.

YES, I SAW THE PICTURES OF  LANES OF TRAFFIC BACKED UP TRYING TO TURN OFF ON 87 TO GO  INTO TEXAS AND THE OTHER THING THAT STRUCK ME, LIKE A HAMMER,  WAS THAT HOUSTON IS THEIR NEAREST PORT FOR, YOU KNOW,  SENDING OUT THEIR PRODUCTS AND THAT IS A HECK OF A WAYS DOWN  THERE.

BUT ALSO, THEN, I SAID, YOU  KNOW, IF YOU HAVE THE TRAFFIC GOING INTO TEXAS, GOING THAT  WAY, BECAUSE SOME WILL TAKE THE FOUR-LANE LITTLE RURAL  ROADS, BUT A LOT OF THAT IS COMING INTO ALBUQUERQUE AND  THEN GOING EAST ON I-40.

SO, IT WILL REDUCE THAT  TRAFFIC AND MAKE OUR ROADS -- OUR INTERSTATES BACK AND FORTH  ON INTERSTATE 40 AND THE LOWER PARTS OF I-25 SAFER.

SO, IT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD IDEA AFTER I THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND  DID A LITTLE HOMEWORK.

BUT I AM NOT SURE -- THIS IS  FEDERAL MONEY BUT WHEN YOU BUILD THINGS LIKE THIS, THERE  ALWAYS ENDS UP BEING SOME STATE MONEY AND WE HAVE PLENTY  OF IT RIGHT NOW.

DOES OUR LEGISLATURE HAVE THE  WILL TO DO THAT AND HELP OUT?

AND I AM SO AFRAID IT MAY  BECOME ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE RURAL VERSUS METRO ARGUMENTS  THAT WE HAVE SEEN, BUT NOW -- IN MY OPINION, NOW IS THE TIME  TO DO IT IF WE ARE GOING TO DO IT.

BECAUSE, IT WILL COST NEW MEXICO MONEY.

BUT THE OFFSET OF ALL OF THAT BUSINESS THAT GROWS ALONG AN  INTERSTATE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE STUCKEY'S  ANYMORE BUT STUCKEY'S MADE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ALONG THE  INTERSTATES.

Gene: THAT IS AN EXAMPLE.

ABSOLUTELY.

Diane: GAS STATIONS.

IF YOU HAVE EVER DRIVEN ACROSS NORTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO, AS  THEY COMMONLY SAY, SENATORS UP THERE, THERE ARE MORE COWS  THAN CONSTITUENTS.

IF WE COULD DO SOMETHING TO  HELP THEM AND THEIR ECONOMY, THEN AS ALGERNON SAID, IT  BENEFITS THE WHOLE STATE.

Gene: THANK YOU ALL FOR  YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE NEW INTERSTATE HIGHWAY PROPOSAL.

A LITTLE BIT OFF, BUT LET'S PLAN FOR THE GOOD THINGS.

ONE FINAL TOPIC WITH OUR LINE PANELISTS IN LESS THAN 10  MINUTES.

IN 2018, U.S. AIR FORCE TOLD  ART SCHAAP THAT TOXIC CHEMICALS FROM CANNON AIR  FORCE BASE HAD TRAVELED IN THE GROUNDWATER FROM BENEATH THE  BASE INTO THE WATER THAT SUPPLIED HIS HOME, HIS  EMPLOYEES AND COWS AT HIS DAIRY, HIGHLAND DAIRY IN  CLOVIS.

THESE TOXIC CHEMICALS, PFAS,  LEAKED FROM FIRE FIGHTING FOAMS USED AT THE BASE.

IT IS A PROBLEM HAPPENING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND STATE OF  NEW MEXICO AND AIR FORCE CONTINUE TO BE AT LOGGERHEADS  OVER CLEANUP.

THIS IS A STORY WE HAVE BEEN  COVERING FOR YEARS.

READ ALL ABOUT IT ON OUR  GROUNDWATER WAR WEBSITE AT NMPBS.ORG.

NOW, CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS TALKS WITH NEW MEXICO  ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT SECRETARY JAMES KENNEY ABOUT  THE HIGHLAND DAIRY AND THOUSANDS OF DAIRY COWS  MR. SCHAAP HAD TO EUTHANIZE.

I JUST WANT TO WARN PEOPLE,  THIS IS A TOUGH CONVERSATION.

AND IN PLACES A GRAPHIC ONE.

Laura: THIS CONTAMINATION HAS REACHED VARIOUS WELLS IN  THE CLOVIS AREA.

BUT MR. SCHAAP AT HIGHLANDS  DAIRY HAS KIND OF MAYBE THE BIGGEST IMPACT.

AND WE VISITED HIM BACK IN 2021, LAST SPRING, TO TALK TO  HIM AND SAW HIS THOUSANDS OF COWS AT HIS DAIRY THAT HE WAS  UNABLE TO SELL THE MILK FROM ANYMORE BUT, YOU KNOW, HAD  KEPT THESE THOUSANDS OF COWS ALIVE.

WHAT HAS NOW BECOME OF THOSE COWS?

Sec.

Kenney: THOSE 3600 COWS OVERTIME, SOME OF THEM  SIMPLY JUST DIED OF OLD AGE.

AND HE WASN'T ABLE TO SELL HIS  MILK BUT HE STILL HAD TO MAINTAIN THOSE COWS.

TO SEE IF THE PFAS LEVELS WOULD NATURALLY DECLINE IS  WHAT I UNDERSTAND HE WAS KEEPING THEM ALIVE FOR.

AS OF TODAY, ALL 3600 COWS HAVE NOW BEEN EUTHANIZED SO  THOSE COWS ARE NO LONGER LIVING AND THE COWS TODAY ARE  BEING COMPOSTED ON SITE AT HIS FARM AND WE ARE WORKING WITH  HIM TO MAKE SURE THOSE HAZARDOUS CARCASSES ARE  PROPERLY MANAGED SO THAT PFAS DOESN'T CONTINUE TO MOVE  THROUGH THE ENVIRONMENT BUT WE ACTUALLY TAKE IT OUT OF THE  ENVIRONMENT.

Laura: LET'S TALK ABOUT  THAT A LITTLE BIT.

ABOUT COWS BEING AND COW  CARCASSES NOW BEING HAZARDOUS WASTE.

HOW DOES THAT CHANGE HOW AND WHERE THESE BODIES CAN BE  BURIED OR DISPOSED OF?

I MEAN, IT IS A DIFFICULT  CONVERSATION TO HAVE BUT I WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND KIND  OF LOGISTICS OF THAT.

Sec.

Kenney: I THINK IT IS  A REALLY DIFFICULT CONVERSATION AND AS SOMEBODY  WHO HAS BEEN IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL BUSINESS AS A  REGULATOR FOR 25 PLUS YEARS WORKING ON HAZARDOUS WASTE  ISSUES, I HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED A SCENARIO LIKE  THIS BEFORE WHERE A COW HAS BECOME A HAZARDOUS WASTE.

IT IS, ONE, NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD EVER WANT TO DEAL WITH  AND, TWO, NOT SOMETHING I HAVE EVER HAD TO DEAL WITH IT.

MANY REGULATORS HAVEN'T HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS.

IT IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING WE SEE MORE OF UNFORTUNATELY.

BUT THOSE COWS -- THOSE CARCASSES CONTAIN PFAS IN AN  AMOUNT THAT EXCEEDS THE EPA HEALTH ADVISORY   LIMIT OF 70 PARTS PER TRILLION.

IT EXCEEDS WHAT NEW MEXICO CONSIDERS A HAZARDOUS WASTE  AND, THEREFORE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THOSE COWS, UPON  THEIR DECOMPOSITION, THAT WE CLEAN-UP THE SOIL AND ANY  REMAINING MATERIALS AND THERE IS GOING TO BE -- WE ARE  SEEKING INFORMATION ON WHAT THE PROPER DISPOSAL WOULD BE,  LONG-TERM DISPOSAL.

BUT IT IS LIKELY GOING TO BE  SOMETHING LIKE SCOOPING EVERYTHING UP, TAKING IT TO A  HAZARDOUS WASTE LANDFILL, OR TAKING ALL THAT SOIL AND  ORGANIC MATTER THAT IS REMAINING, TO A HAZARD WASTE  INCINERATOR AND DISPOSING OF IT TO BREAK DOWN THAT REALLY  HARD CHEMICAL OF PFAS INTO SOMETHING THAT IS NO LONGER  PFAS.

THAT IS WHAT THE INCINERATOR  WOULD DO.

THERE IS A FEW METHODS ON THE  HORIZON THAT MIGHT BE RIGHT BUT WE ARE SEEKING INFORMATION  TO MAKE SURE WE GET IT RIGHT.

Laura: ARE THE COWS JUST  BEING HELD ON THE PROPERTY?

Sec.

Kenney: YES.

IT IS A HORRIFIC SCENE.

THE COWS HAVE BEEN PLACED INTO  DITCHES WHERE THEY WILL BE CONTINUE TO DECOMPOSE.

ART SCHAAP IS COVERING THOSE COWS WIT TOP SOIL AND THINGS  TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SMELL AND THE MIGRATION OF THE  MATERIAL DOESN'T GET OUT OF THOSE DITCHES.

SO, IT IS PRETTY HORRIFIC.

IT IS A PRETTY TERRIBLE EVENT  AND ONE THAT WE WERE HOPING THAT THE COWS WOULD METABOLIZE  THE PFAS.

BUT AFTER MULTIPLE YEARS, THE  LEVELS HAVE NOT COME DOWN.

THEIR MAGNITUDE IS HIGHER THAN  WHAT WE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED OR HOPED THEM TO BE TO TREAT THEM  AS MORE LIKE A SOLID WASTE.

Laura: THIS SOUNDS HORRIBLE  AND ALSO EXPENSIVE.

WHO IS PAYING FOR ALL OF THIS?

Sec.

Kenney: NEW MEXICANS ARE PAYING FOR THIS.

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING OUT OF THE FENCE  LINE OF CANNON AIR FORCE BASE TO REALLY TAKE RESPONSIBILITY  FOR THE LONG-TERM CLEANUP OR MANAGEMENT OF THESE HAZARDOUS  CARCASSES.

SO WE STEPPED IN, NEW MEXICO  ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT, BRINGING 850,000 TO THE TABLE  AND THEN ART SCHAAP WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING MONEY  TO THE TABLE AS WELL, FOR SOMETHING THAT HE DIDN'T CAUSE  BUT BECAME A VICTIM SOME.

Laura: WE KNOW THAT THE  MILITARY, U.S. MILITARY, HAS CONTAMINATED SITES ACROSS THE  NATION AND ACROSS THE WORLD WITH PFAS.

ARE OTHER STATES DEALING WITH ANYTHING SIMILAR?

WHAT DO THEIR RELATIONSHIPS LOOK LIKE WHEN IT COMES TO  THESE CLEAN-UP ISSUES?

Sec.

Kenney: IT IS A GREAT  QUESTION AND IT IS AN INTERESTING ANSWER IN THAT  ABOUT 200 MILES ROUGHLY EAST OF CANNON AIR FORCE BASE IS  REESE AIR FORCE BASE IN TEXAS AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE  DICHOTOMY OF WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY, IT IS MIND BOGGLING.

THE AIR FORCE IS CLEANING UP REESE AIR FORCE BASE, TREATING  PFAS AS A HAZARDOUS MATERIAL.

THEY ARE DOING IT WITH THE  STATE OF TEXAS IN A COLLABORATIVE WAY.

WHEN WE ASKED THEM TO DO THE SAME THING HERE IN NEW MEXICO  WE WERE MET WITH A FEDERAL LAWSUIT TO TRY TO STOP US FROM  REQUIRING CLEAN-UP.

SO, YOU HAVE TWO AIR FORCE  BASES, BOTH WITH PFAS CONTAMINATION, ONE WHERE THE  FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS COOPERATING WITH THE STATE OF  TEXAS AND ONE WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SUING  NEW MEXICO TO ENSURE THERE IS NO RESPONSIBILITY.

Laura: WHY DOES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT -- WHY IS NEW  MEXICO TREATED DIFFERENTLY?

Keller: I AM LEFT WITH A  SHORT LIST OF ANSWERS TO THAT QUESTION.

IT IS NOT TECHNICAL, IT IS NOT  LEGAL, IT IS NOT SCIENTIFIC.

SO WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE.

IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS A STATE, NEW MEXICO, THAT IS  RURAL THAT TENDS TO HAVE -- TENDS TO BE A POORER STATE AND  WE TEND TO HAVE A BROWNER POPULATION AND I THINK IT IS  AN ENVIRONMENTAL INJUSTICE OR TEXTBOOK ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE  ISSUE THAT NEW MEXICO IS NOT GETTING AN EQUITABLE TREATMENT  COMPARED TO OTHER STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND I THINK THAT SENDS SOME REAL CONCERN TO ME AS A  REGULATOR THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT PRACTICING  WHAT IT PREACHES.

Laura: SECRETARY KENNEY,  THANK YOU FOR HAVING THIS REALLY HARD CONVERSATION WITH  ME TODAY.

I APPRECIATE IT.

Sec.

Kenney: THANK YOU FOR COVERING THIS.

GLAD TO BE HERE.

Gene: MORE DAMMING NEWS  FROM THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE ON THE LARGEST FIRE IN NEW  MEXICO HISTORY.

THE CALF CANYON FIRE MERGED  WITH THE HERMIT'S PEAK FIRE WHICH WAS ALSO STARTED BY  REMNANTS OF A CONTROLLED BURN, BUT UNLIKE HERMIT'S PEAK, THIS  BURN WAS CARRIED OUT IN JANUARY AND APPARENTLY STAYED  DORMANT REIGNITING IN APRIL, KNOWN AS A SLEEPER FIRE.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A QUICK SECOND.

WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WE SPENT THE LAST FEW WEEKS TALKING ABOUT PUSHING  PRESCRIBED BURNS EARLIER INTO THE YEAR, INTO MONTHS LIKE  JANUARY.

SOPHIE HOW DOES THIS  REVELATION CHANGE THAT THOUGHT PROCESS?

THIS WAS A VERY SEPARATE SITUATION FROM A TIME OF YEAR  PROBLEM.

Sophie: I MEAN, I THINK IT  HIGHLIGHTS THE COMPLEXITY OF THE PRESCRIBED BURN PROGRAMS  AND, YOU KNOW, NOT TO BE TOO SORT OF LIGHT HEARTED ABOUT  THIS, BUT WE STARTED BY TALKING ABOUT CONTROLLED BURNS  AND I THINK WE HAVE TO KIND OF REACH AN AGREEMENT WE ARE NOT  GOING TO CALL THEM THAT ANYMORE BECAUSE WE HAVE NOW  TOO MANY EXAMPLES OF HOW THEY HAVE GOTTEN OUT OF CONTROL IN  OUR STATE AND IN OUR REGION BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT  OF MOVING PIECES HAPPENING HERE.

IT IS NOT JUST -- I THINK SOME OF THE COVERAGE ON THE BURNS  IS REALLY HIGHLIGHTED THIS -- IT IS NOT JUST A MATTER OF HOW  THESE PRESCRIBED BURNS ARE SET, WHEN THEY ARE SET.

WE HAVE THE CHANGING SITUATION WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE HAVE A CHANGING ECOSYSTEM HERE WHERE WE ARE HAVING, I  THINK, PROFESSIONALS ARE HAVING TO CONSTANTLY TRACK  WHAT IS GROWING WHERE.

AND THEN I AM REMINDED AS WELL  OF LIKE THE SURPRISE THAT APPARENTLY WAS EXPERIENCED  WITH ONE OF THESE PRESCRIBED BURNS OVER THE QUANTITY OF  WIND.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT  THERE IS NOT REALLY A VERY SIMPLE SOLUTION HERE.

CERTAINLY THIS ISSUE HIGHLIGHTS THE NEED FOR EVEN  MORE RESOURCES PUT INTO, YOU KNOW, MAINTAINING OUR  ECOSYSTEM AND, YOU KNOW, REALLY LOOKING AT CONTINUING  TO LOOK AT AND PUT MONEY INTO THINNING, BURNS, ET CETERA, SO  THIS STUFF DOESN'T CONTINUE TO GET OUT OF HAND.

IT IS TOUGH BECAUSE I JUST SAID, LIKE, CONTINUE TO DO  BURNS, AND AT THE SAME TIME WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PROBLEM  WITH BURNS.

Gene: TO MAKE SOPHIE'S  POINT, THAT SLEEPER FIRE, BASICALLY THAT PILE OF DORMANT  STUFF, IT WAS THERE UNDER THREE WINTER STORMS AND THEN  THEY GOT A REPORT OF A SMOKE IN THE AREA AND FIRE RESUMED.

CREWS CAME IN RESPONDED, AND IT RESUMED 10 DAYS LATER AND  BREACHED THOSE CONTAINMENT LINES.

VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION.

I AM JUST CURIOUS, YOU KNOW,  WHAT MORE CAN BE POSSIBLY DONE HERE AFTER THESE KIND OF  SITUATIONS COME UP AND THIS KIND OF COMPLEXITY?

Algernon: AS A REPORTER, I HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS.

I HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW DECISIONS ABOUT PRESCRIBED  BURNS ARE MADE IN RESPONSE TO CHANGING CONDITIONS RELATED TO  CLIMATE CHANGE AND JUST THE FUEL MOISTURE LEVELS THAT ARE  ASTRONOMICALLY LOW -- ASTRONOMICALLY IS NOT THE RIGHT  WORD, THE OPPOSITE OF ASTRONOMICAL.

VERY LOW.

I WAS AT A MEETING IN MESILLA  FOLLOWING A BRUSH FIRE THAT BROKE OUT IN THE MESILLA VALLEY  BOSQUE STATE PARK BACK IN APRIL AND THE FIRE CHIEF SAID THAT  FUEL MOISTURE LEVELS ARE LOWER THAN HE HAS EVER SEEN AND HE  COMMENTED THAT THE TIMBER IN OUR FORESTS ACROSS NEW MEXICO IS  DRYER THAN WHAT YOU WOULD BUY AS LUMBER AT HOME DEPOT.

I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE DRIVEN INTERSTATE 10 THROUGH SOUTHERN  NEW MEXICO, THERE ARE THESE BIG ELECTRONIC SIGNS BEGGING  MOTORISTS NOT TO FLICK THEIR CIGARETTE BUTTS OUT BECAUSE THAT  IS ALL IT TAKES.

SO, IN THESE CONDITIONS, HOW WAS  THE FOREST SERVICE MAKING DECISIONS AND ADJUSTMENTS ABOUT  BURNS, BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE A PILE OF WOOD IS SITTING THERE  AND GETS A LITTLE BIT OF SNOW ON IT, A LITTLE BIT OF  PRECIPITATION, DOES NOT MEAN IT HAS BEEN SODDENED OR  EXTINGUISHED.

Gene: WE HAVE A POTENTIAL  HERE OF SIGNIFICANT FLOODING FROM MONSOON SEASON COMING UP  HERE.

AGAIN,   DIFFICULT QUESTION.

WHAT DO FOREST CREWS NEED TO DO  FOCUSING ON PREVENTING THAT KIND OF DISASTER.

THAT IS GOING TO COST A LOT OF MONEY TO MAKE SURE WE ARE OKAY  ON THAT.

Diane: IT GOES BACK TO WHAT -- THE IMAGE THAT COMES TO  MIND FOR ME IS THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG.

WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE FLOODING ISSUE IF WE HADN'T HAD THE FIRE.

AND THAT SLEEPER FIRE, I AM GOING -- I WAS READING THE  DESCRIPTION FROM ONE OF THE FOREST EXPERTS ABOUT WHAT  HAPPENED AND THE SEQUENCE OF IT AND EVERYTHING.

I AM GOING, WAIT A MINUTE, SMOKY BEAR TAUGHT ME HOW YOU  EXTINGUISH A CAMP FIRE 100 YEARS AGO, MAYBE NOT QUITE THAT LONG  BUT I AM GOING, THESE ARE THE EXPERTS.

WHY ON EARTH WOULD THERE BE SUCH A THING AS A SLEEPER FIRE.

THE MATERIALS -- PART OF IT GOES BACK FOR ME TO WHY ARE WE STILL  NOT ALLOWED TO THIN OUR FORESTS, GET OUT SOME OF THE UNDERBRUSH,  BECAUSE OTHER STORIES SHOWED US THAT THE HOMES, PARTICULARLY IN  THE RUIDOSO AREA, THAT HAD CLEARED X SQUARES OF LAND OUT A  DISTANCE FROM THEIR HOMES ARE MANY OF THE HOMES THAT WERE NOT  BURNED.

SO,   I AM GOING, IF THAT WORKS THERE, THEN WOULDN'T IT WORK  EVERY PLACE ELSE?

Gene: THAT IS A GOOD POINT.

LET ME GET WITH SOPHIE HERE BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME REAL  QUICK.

SOPHIE, IN A RECENT  GUBERNATORIAL DEBATE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S CANDIDATES  FIGHTING FOR THE PARTY'S NOMINATION, CANDIDATES  UNIVERSALLY AGREED THIS IS JUST A FOREST MANAGEMENT ISSUE AND  MARK RONCHETTI, A CAREER TELEVISION METEOROLOGIST,  ACTUALLY SAID THE MAJORITY OF THE STATE HAS SEEN ABOVE-AVERAGE  PRECIPITATION IN THE LAST YEAR, WHICH IS NOT TRUE.

IN FACT, THE STATE IS MOVING INTO A SECOND YEAR OF ALMOST  UNIVERSAL AND HISTORIC DROUGHT.

Sophie: ARE YOU SAYING THAT  YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE WEATHERMAN?

Gene: WEATHERMEN BEING WHAT THEY ARE, HOW DAMAGING IS IT  THAT KIND OF RHETORIC TO ACTUALLY DEALING WITH WHAT WE  KNOW IS A MAJOR ISSUE FOR OUR STATE AS WE CONTINUE TO WARM, AS  HE WAS SAYING EARLIER.

Sophie: I THINK,  UNFORTUNATELY, AND I DON'T THINK I'LL SURPRISE ANYBODY ON THIS  PANEL OR WATCHING FROM HOME, YOU KNOW, SO MUCH OF WHAT AT ONE  TIME WE WOULD HAVE JUST SAID IT IS SCIENCE HAS BEEN POLITICIZED.

AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SEEM TO FEEL FREE BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP  THEIR OWN VERSION OF FACTS AND SO IS IT DAMAGING?

YEAH, ESPECIALLY IF IT MEANS THAT WE SPEND THE NEXT COUPLE OF  DECADES ARGUING OVER WHETHER IT SHOULD BE THE REPUBLICANS  POSITION OR THE DEMOCRATIC POSITION, WHICH ONE?

OR THE SCIENCE -- SCIENCE POSITION SOMEWHERE IN THERE AS  WELL.

THIS POLITICIZATION, IT  SHOULDN'T BE REACHING INTO THIS KIND OF SITUATION BUT, OF  COURSE, IT DOES.

Gene: IT DOES.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS WE  COVERED ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR OUR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT AS WE BRING ANOTHER WEEK AND MONTH TO  A CLOSE HERE IN NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

IT IS SOMETHING I MENTIONED THIS WEEK ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE.

I HAVE NOTICED AS WE CONTINUE TO TRY TO REESTABLISH A NEW NORMAL  COMING OUT OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC, SOME GROUPS SEEM TO BE  ALSO DOING AWAY WITH ZOOM AND OTHER TELECONFERENCING PLATFORMS  AS A WAY TO INCREASE ACCESS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY PUBLIC INPUT.

MOST RECENTLY THIS WEEK, THE CITY ALBUQUERQUE MEETING ON  DOWNTOWN AND NEXT WEEK A BERNALILLO COUNTY DISCUSSION ON  INFRASTRUCTURE,  NEITHER OF WHICH WILL HAVE ANY KIND OF WAYS TO PARTICIPATE  UNLESS YOU'RE THERE.

NOW, THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS PROVEN  INVALUABLE FOR MAKING IT EASIER AND LESS DAUNTING FOR A WIDER  SWATH OF PEOPLE TO MAKE THEIR VOICE HEARD.

I CAN ONLY HOPE  THESE TWO EXAMPLES ARE BLIPS ON THE RADAR AND NOT A SIGN OF THE  TIME.

OTHERWISE WE MAY SEE A RETURN TO THE SAME VOICES,  MAKING THE SAME ARGUMENT.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WE SHOULD  BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THOSE ARE THE INTENDED  CONSEQUENCES.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND  FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE AGAIN NEXT WEEK  IN FOCUS.