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♪♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, THIS IS "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

SO, TUESDAY IS PRIMARY ELECTION DAY.

WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON THAT FOR THE MOST PART.

THE ENTIRE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WILL BE CONTESTED THIS YEAR.

TUESDAY IS FOR PARTY MEMBERS TO CHOOSE THEIR CANDIDATES FOR NOVEMBER'S GENERAL ELECTION.

WE'RE GOING TO START WITH THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WITH A PRIMARY FEATURES FOUR CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR.

LET'S BRING IN OUR GUEST, HE'S AN ATTORNEY AT McCARTER AND ENGLISH AND A REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MAN, BILL, THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU AS ALWAYS.

>> SO, YOU'RE A JACK CIATTARELLI GUY.

WHY?

>> LISTEN, JACK'S A GUY WHO CAN WIN THIS RACE.

HE'S A VERY ARTICULATE GUY, AND HE'S A NEW JERSEY GUY.

YOU KNOW, HE'S A GREAT STORY, FAMILY THAT GREW UP IN NEW JERSEY IN SOMERSET COUNTY AND A FAMILY BUSINESS.

JACK TOOK THAT TO HIS ROOTS TO START HIS OWN BUSINESS, VERY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS PERSON.

HE'S NOT A CAREER POLITICIAN.

JACK WAS A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS PERSON, BROUGHT THAT EXPERIENCE, SERVED A FEW TERMS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

AND SO, HE'S A VERY GOOD STORY TO TELL.

HE'S A GOOD TRACK RECORD FOR THE ECONOMY WHEN HE WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

AND HE'S GOT A REAL CHANCE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE THIS FALL.

SO, I LIKE JACK AND I HAVE KNOWN HIM.

I SPENT SOME TIME WITH HIM OVER THE YEARS.

HE'S A SERIOUS GUY WITH SERIOUS IDEAS AND THE ABILITY TO ARTICULATE THOSE IDEAS.

>> SO, WHAT'S YOUR IMPRESSION OF PHIL RIZZO, THE TWO OTHERS WHO ARE THE MOST VIABLE CANDIDATES?

THEY'RE CLEARLY FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM WITHIN THE PARTY.

WHAT'S YOUR OPINION OF WHETHER THIS PRIMARY'S GOING TO BE PARTICULARLY TELLING WHEN IT COMES TO WHETHER YOUR PARTY IS THE PARTY OF TRUMP OR THE PARTY OF THE MORE MODERATE TRADITION OF A TOM CAIN SR. >> COUPLE THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL, THOSE OTHER CANDIDATES YOU MENTIONED ARE JUST NOT SERIOUS PLAYERS.

THEY'RE NOT SERIOUS PEOPLE TO BEGIN WITH.

SO, THEY HAVE NO CHANCE OF WINNING THIS PRIMARY.

THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

BUT NUMBER TWO, YOU'RE RIGHT.

I MEAN, OUR PARTY, BOTH IN NEW JERSEY AND NATIONALLY, HAS SOME MAJOR DIVISIONS IN IT, AND WHETHER IT'S THE PARTY OF TRUMP, AS YOU SAY, OR WHETHER IT'S THE PARTY OF TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN IDEAS DATING BACK TO ITS ROOTS AS THE PARTY OF LINCOLN.

THE TEMPLATE, THOUGH, FOR THE CIATTARELLI CAMPAIGN AND THE PARTY IN GENERAL GOING FORWARD IS 2009.

REMEMBER BARACK OBAMA, IN 2008, WON NEW JERSEY BY A LANDSLIDE, A HUGE LANDSLIDE, BUT THEN A YEAR LATER, CHRIS CHRISTIE WON NEW JERSEY AGAINST JOHN CORZINE, BUT THE IMPORTANT PART FOR THIS CONVERSATION, DAVID, IS CHRIS DID THAT AND HIS CAMPAIGN, WE DID THAT AFTER A VERY CONTENTIOUS PRIMARY WITH A VERY CONSERVATIVE STEVE LONEGAN.

CHRIS DIDN'T GET 100% OF THE VOTE IN THE PRIMARY IN 2009.

I THINK HE GOT ABOUT 55% OF THE VOTE.

SO, WE HAD TO IN '09 UNITE THE PARTY, ARTICULATE A MESSAGE THAT WOULD BRING THE PARTY TOGETHER TO WIN IN NOVEMBER.

>> BUT IN '09, I MEAN, YOU DID HAVE A KIND OF RIGHT-WING LONEGAN, BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE SPECTER OF DONALD TRUMP HANGING OVER THE CAMPAIGN.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE THOSE FOUR YEARS OF TRUMPISM AND ITS EFFECT ON NEW JERSEY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS DRIVING REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS IN NEW JERSEY RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, LISTEN, YOU'RE RIGHT THAT CHALLENGE EXISTS, BUT YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT A STATE THAT DONALD TRUMP WON.

I THINK HE LOST NEW JERSEY LAST NOVEMBER BY 16% OR 17%.

HE LOST MORRIS COUNTY.

REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE LOST MORRIS COUNTY, I THINK THE FIRST TIME THAT'S HAPPENED SINCE JOHNSON BEAT GOLDWATER.

SO WHILE WE HAVE TO UNITE THE PARTY, THIS IS NOT SOME RED STATE WHERE DONALD TRUMP WON AND SO THEREFORE IS AN OVERRIDING FACTOR HERE.

LISTEN, AS YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT SUMMERS IN NEW JERSEY, AND MY HOPE THAT HE WILL BE CONSTRUCTIVE IN TERMS OF HIS POST-PRESIDENCY, BOTH IN NEW JERSEY AND IN OTHER STATES, IN OTHER PLACES.

THAT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.

THAT'S GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE FOR US, BUT -- AND I THINK JACK CIATTARELLI SAYS IT WELL.

THE FOCUS IN NOVEMBER HAS TO BE NEW JERSEY AND LOOKING FORWARD AND NOT WHAT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, WHILE DONALD TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT.

>> AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, CIATTARELLI'S BEEN FORCED TO TACK TO THE RIGHT.

I MEAN, IS THE PARTY CHANGING OR IS THIS JUST A BLIP?

I MEAN, THERE WERE 300,000 MORE VOTERS FOR DONALD TRUMP IN '20 THAN THERE WERE IN '16.

>> LISTEN, WE'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT CHALLENGE.

I'M SO OLD, I REMEMBER TOM CAIN'S PRIMARY CAMPAIGN, HE CAMPAIGNED ON CUTTING THE SALES TAX, BIG TAX CUT PLAN IN THE PLATFORM OF THE CANDIDATE -- PRIMARY CANDIDATE TOM CAIN IN 1981.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

WHEN IT GOT TO THE GENERAL ELECTION WHEN HE ULTIMATELY GOT ELECTED.

SO REPUBLICANS HAVE ALWAYS HAD THAT.

RICHARD NIXON, HIS FAMOUS SAYING OF, YOU CAN'T PAINT A PRIMARY TO THE RIGHT AND IN THE GENERAL, YOU TACK TO THE CENTER.

SO, THAT'S NOT NEW.

>> IF WE WAKE UP ON WEDNESDAY MORNING AND EITHER SINGH OR RIZZO HAS LIKE 40% OF THE VOTE, THAT'S GOING TO BE A REAL STATEMENT, THOUGH, RIGHT?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

I MEAN, AS I SAID, STEVE LONEGAN, I THINK, GOT NEARLY 45% OF THE VOTE IN '09 AND SO THAT WOULDN'T BE ANY DIFFERENT.

LISTEN, THERE'S A CONSERVATIVE BASE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THAT'S OKAY.

THOSE ARE FOLKS WHO BELIEVE IN INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS AND INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY AND ARE PRO-GUN AND ARE OUTDOORSMEN AND SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AND SO THAT'S THE POPULIST BASE OF THE PARTY, AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NEEDS THAT 40% IF THAT'S WHAT ANY ONE OF THEM GET OR MAYBE THE COMBINATION OF THEM GETS THAT.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED OR ALARMED BY THAT.

THE CHALLENGE AND THE CHORE FOR JACK CIATTARELLI IS TO THEN WALK AND CHEW GUM IN THE FALL.

>> SO, YOU THINK THE GOVERNOR, OBVIOUSLY, IS VULNERABLE.

YOU MENTIONED '09 A COUPLE OF TIMES THERE.

GIVE SOME FREE ADVICE TO YOUR FRIEND, JACK CIATTARELLI, ON HOW HE SHOULD ATTACK PHIL MURPHY IN THE FALL.

>> I THINK JACK, I'VE SEEN HIM OUT ON THE STUMP AND HIS TV ADS.

I THINK JACK HAS GENERALLY GOT IT RIGHT.

HE'S BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE AND GOING FORWARD.

HE'S NOT BEEN LOOKING BACKWARDS AND NOT LOOKING AT THE REAR VIEW MIRROR.

HE'S HAD TO HAVE SOME ADS TO SHORE UP THE CONSERVATIVE BASE OF SUPPORT FOR HIMSELF, BUT I THINK JACK IS GENERALLY GOT IT RIGHT.

LISTEN, I GOT TO SAY, TOO, YOU KNOW, GOVERNOR MURPHY IS IN A STRONGER AND BETTER POSITION THAN JOHN CORZINE WAS THOSE MANY YEARS AGO SO LET'S BE FAIR ABOUT THAT.

BUT THE OTHER THING TOO, DAVID, I THINK I'VE GOT TO SAY THIS TOO.

WE ARE IN A -- IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY.

THIS IS AN ELECTION ON THE HEELS OF THIS PANDEMIC.

WE'RE ALL FEELING GOOD ABOUT IT IN MANY WAYS.

EXCEPT FOR PEOPLE WHO TRAGICALLY, WHOSE FAMILIES WERE AFFECTED BY THE PANDEMIC, MAY HAVE LOST LOVED ONES OR FAMILY MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN ILLED BY IT, SO THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED TO HAVE A GENERAL ELECTION ON THE HEELS OF A PANDEMIC.

AND SO, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US REALLY KNOW EXACTLY HOW VOTERS WILL REACT THIS FALL, SO I THINK EVERYBODY, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, HAVE TO BE ON THEIR TOES AND BE CAREFULLY MONITORING HOW THE PUBLIC IS REACTING TO A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN ON THE HEELS OF A PANDEMIC.

>> ALL RIGHT, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MAN BILL PALATUCCI, THANKS FOR COMING ON, MAN.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> YOU TOO, MAN.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL NOW.

STACEY SHERMAN IS DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR FOR U.S. BUREAU FOR BLOOMBERG.

MATT ARCO IS FROM NJ ADVANCED MEDIA AND MATT FRIEDMAN IS A REPORTER FOR POLITICO AND AUTHOR OF ITS NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOKS.

A FEW RACES SPRINKLED ABOUT THIS PRIMARY SEASON.

WE START WITH THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

WE JUST HEARD FROM BILL THERE.

JACK CIATTARELLI, HIRSH SINGH, AND PHIL RISSO, THE MAIN COMBATANTS HERE.

>> OBVIOUSLY, JACK IS THE CLEAR FRONT RUNNER, HE HAS THE PARTY LINE ACROSS THE STATE, BUT THE TRUMP QUESTION WILL BE INTERESTING.

TRUMP HAS OBVIOUSLY PLAYED A HUGE ROLE IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY TO DATE, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT HIRSH SINGH AND PHIL RIZZO ARE RUNNING IN THE SAME LANE.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO ME IF ONE WAS RUNNING IN THAT MAKE NEW JERSEY GREAT AGAIN LANE, SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THEM CANCELING ONE ANOTHER OUT.

HAS IT BEEN A THORN IN THE SIDE OF JACK CIATTARELLI, WHO AS BILL SAID, WILL HAVE TO TACK BACK TO THE MIDDLE TO STAND A CHANCE TO WIN IN A STATE LIKE NEW JERSEY?

BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I'M REALLY LOOKING TO SEE HOW MUCH GRAVITATES TO EACH OF THOSE TWO CANDIDATES BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT JACK IS LOSING A TON OF SLEEP BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, THEY CANCEL ONE ANOTHER OUT IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

>> MATT FREEMAN, HOW DO YOU SEE THIS?

>> YEAH, I THINK CIATTARELLI'S VERY LUCKY THAT HE HAS TWO MAGA MEN TO RUN AGAINST.

AND SO THAT HE CAN LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF FAR -- APPEALING TO THAT TRUMP BASE.

I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT COULD REALLY UPEND THE RACE AT THIS POINT AND REALLY MAKE THINGS CHALLENGING FOR CIATTARELLI IS IF TRUMP WAS TO COME OUT WITH AN ENDORSEMENT.

BUT EVEN THEN -- AND I DON'T THINK HE IS.

IT'S PRETTY LATE IN THE GAME.

AND I THINK THIS ISN'T BASED ON INSIDE INFORMATION, BUT ONE THING WE KNOW ABOUT TRUMP IS HE DOESN'T LIKE TO BACK LOSERS, RIGHT?

SO, IF IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE'S A GREAT CHANCE ONE OF THESE GUYS IS GOING TO PULL OFF AN UPSET, I DON'T SEE HIM DOING IT, JUST BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THIS PERSON.

I THINK THAT IT'S ALMOST COMICAL AT TIMES HOW PRO-TRUMP THESE PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN, AND THE FAR, FAR RIGHT RHETORIC THEY HAVE USED AND, FRANKLY, THE MISINFORMATION AND IN SOME CASE OUTRIGHT LIES THAT THEY'VE USED.

I MEAN, WE'VE SEEN IT WITH THIS NETWORK RIGHT HERE WITH HIRSH SINGH SAYING HE WAS REQUIRED TO GET A VACCINATION.

TOTAL LIE.

DIDN'T HAPPEN, RIGHT?

I MEAN, YOU GUYS CAN VOUCH FOR THAT.

BUT HE DECIDED TO SAY THAT FOR WHATEVER REASON HE HAD TO DUCK OUT OF THAT DEBATE.

AT THE SAME TIME, PHIL RIZZO, I MEAN, THIS PERSON HAS A PERSON ON HIS CAMPAIGN PAYROLL AS A CONSULTANT WHO HAS GONE OUT ON FACEBOOK AND SAID THE VACCINES ARE PUTTING MICROCHIPS IN PEOPLE'S BLOOD.

IT'S NOT NORMAL.

WE SHOULDN'T NORMALIZE THIS.

IT'S PRETTY OUT THERE.

AND IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE STATE OF OUR POLITICS RIGHT NOW AND THE STATE OF THE MODERN REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE SOMETHING OF A FORCE IN THE PRIMARY AND NOT A JOKE.

AND SO I THINK WHEN WE BAT AROUND THE WORDS LIKE THESE ARE MORE CONSERVATIVE VOTERS, LIKE ARE THEY?

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN ANYMORE?

THEY'RE JUST PRO-TRUMP.

IT'S A CULT OF PERSONALITY, BASICALLY.

THEY'LL JUST GO WITH THAT AND I KNOW THAT'S A POLITICALLY CHARGED WORD TO SAY BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO DESCRIBE IT.

>> STACEY, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TELLING ME THEY SEE A LOT OF HIRSH SINGH SIGNS OUT THERE.

CAN HE PULL AN UPSET OR FOR THAT MATTER, CAN RIZZO?

>> I THINK ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN DURING A PRIMARY ELECTION WHEN TURNOUT IS SO LOW, SO IF SINGH CAN GET ENOUGH OF HIS SUPPORTERS OUT THERE, THERE IS A CHANCE HE CAN WIN.

IT IS -- THAT'S -- A PRIMARY, I MEAN, VOTERS NEED TO COME OUT.

SO, THERE IS A CHANCE.

I THINK, THOUGH, THAT THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO CIATTARELLI IS HAVING, AS THE OTHER GUYS SAID, HAVING TWO TRUMPERS.

SO, SHOULD BE INTERESTING.

>> YEAH.

ALL RIGHT, DOES THE OTHER REPUBLICAN RACE IN ATLANTIC COUNTY, SENATOR CHRIS BROWN IS RETIRING.

VINZ AND SETH GROSSMAN ARE VYING FOR THAT NOMINATION.

GROSSMAN IS NOT A WARM AND FUZZY GUY.

HE SAID, IN THE UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR.

POLOSTINO IS NICER, LOTS OF ORGANIZATION SUPPORT BUT HE'S BEEN OUT OF THE GAME FOR A DECADE.

THE REPUBLICANS COULD ACTUALLY ELECT THE TRUMP GUY HERE, NO, MATT FRIEDMAN?

>> YEAH, I THINK GROSSMAN HAS A GREAT CHANCE TO WIN THIS PRIMARY AND THIS IS SOMEONE WHO'S SAID SOME REALLY FAR OUT THERE STUFF BEFORE.

I THINK WE SHOULD TAKE NOTE THAT WHAT HE HAS SAID ON FACEBOOK IS NOT RACIALLY CHARGED, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, YOU KNOW, I WOULD -- I'M PERFECTLY COMFORTABLE WITH CALLING A LIE OF WHAT HE SAID RACIST WHEN HE POSTS AN ARTICLE THAT SAYS BLACK PEOPLE ARE A THREAT TO ALL WHO CROSS THEIR PATHS AND EXCUSES IT BY SAYING, WELL, ALAN WEST POSTED IT ONCE.

BUT THERE WAS A LOT MORE THAN THAT.

HE'S ALSO REPEATEDLY CALLED -- I MEAN, HE'S CALLED ISLAM A CANCER AND I JUST WOULD LIKE US TO TAKE A SECOND AND THINK ABOUT CALLING ANY OTHER RELIGION THAT AND HOW A CANDIDATE WOULD BE TREATED.

SO -- BUT HE HAS A GREAT CHANCE TO WIN THE PRIMARY, I REALLY BELIEVE THAT.

HE UPSET HIRSH SINGH FOR CONGRESS IN 2018, WON THAT PRIMARY AGAINST SINGH, WHO HAD THE ESTABLISHMENT SUPPORT IN THAT RACE.

HE'S NOT BACKING OFF.

HE BELIEVES THAT STUFF.

THIS IS THE STATE OF THE PARTY.

IF HE WINS THE PRIMARY, DEMOCRATS HAVE A BETTER CHANCE AT PICKING UP THIS DISTRICT.

I THINK IT'S FAIR TO CALL CHRIS BROWN A MODERATE REPUBLICAN.

HE WAS ONE OF ONLY TWO REPUBLICANS IN NEW JERSEY WHO JOINED A RESOLUTION TO CONDEMN TRUMP AFTER JANUARY 6th.

AND LO AND BEHOLD, RETIRED NOT LONG -- ANNOUNCED HIS RETIREMENT NOT LONG AFTER IT.

SO SWING TO THE RIGHT.

>> SETH GROSSMAN IS TO THE RIGHT OF HIRSH SINGH AND TO THE RIGHT OF PHIL RIZZO.

WHAT DOES IT SAY IF HE DOES GET THE NOMINATION FOR THE REPUBLICANS IN THAT SITE?

I MEAN, GRANTED, THEY MAY LOSE THE SEAT, BUT THE REPUBLICANS WILL SAY THIS IS THE GUY THAT WE WANT REPRESENTING US HERE.

>> THAT RACE IS MORE INTERESTING TO ME IN TERMS OF FAR-RIGHT REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE BEING ACROSS THE LINE.

I THINK HE'S RUNNING UNDER THE SLOGAN, THE REAL REPUBLICANS FIGHT WOKE DEMOCRATS.

I MEAN, THAT ALONE, I WONDER WHAT REPUBLICAN VOTER, PROBABLY MOST LIKELY THAN NOT, BIG TRUMP SUPPORTER, WILL GO INTO THE POLLS, SEE THAT, AND DEVIATE FROM THE LINE.

SO THAT RACE, I THINK, FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT MATT POINTED OUT ABOUT WHY SETH COULD PICK THAT UP, THAT ALONE TO ME IS A MORE INTERESTING RACE TO WATCH IN TERMS OF PARTY LINE VERSUS MORE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN.

SO, THAT, TO ME, IS JUST THE MORE INTERESTING RACE.

>> THERE'S A COUPLE OF CLOSE RACES ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

LET'S LOOK AT THOSE BEFORE WE GET TO THE GOVERNOR'S ROLE IN ALL THIS.

IN THE 37th DISTRICT, THAT'S BERGEN COUNTY, IT'S THE RATE TO SUCCEED LORETTA WEINBERG IN THE SENATE.

INCUMBENT ASSEMBLY MEMBERS VALERIE HUDDLE AND GORDON JOHNSON WHO BOTH RAN WITH LORETTA WEINBERG, WE HAD THEM ON "CHAT BOX" THIS WEEK.

I'M SURE THAT ALL OF YOU WATCHED.

JOHNSON'S THE PARTY CHOICE, BUT HUDDLE HAS A LOT OF SUPPORT FROM THE LEFT-LEANING ORGANIZATIONS.

STACEY, THIS HAS GOTTEN A LITTLE CONTENTIOUS AS WE APPROACH ELECTION DAY.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS RACE?

>> I THINK IT'S INTERESTING IN THAT THESE ARE VERY SIMILAR CANDIDATES WHO HAVE BEEN RUNNING MATES, WHO HAVE VOTED VERY SIMILARLY AND NOW THEY'RE AGAINST EACH OTHER.

IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, DIVERSITY IS SUCH A BIG ISSUE THIS YEAR, AND YOU HAVE A -- THERE'S A CHOICE NOW.

LORETTA WEINBERG HAS BEEN A SENATOR A LONG TIME, AND THERE ARE, I THINK, ONLY 11 WOMEN IN THE SENATE.

SO, THE QUESTION IS WHETHER YOU WANT TO KEEP THAT AMOUNT OF WOMEN.

WILL PEOPLE WANT THAT?

BUT JOHNSON IS, YOU KNOW, HE'S A BLACK MAN AND PEOPLE MIGHT WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER BLACK PERSON IN THE SENATE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO BE WHAT DRIVES THE VOTE.

I MEAN, JOHNSON HAS THE PARTY LINE, BUT HUTTLE IS VERY RESPECTED, SO I DID WATCH YOUR "CHAT BOX," AND I'M -- I'M TORN BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY ALIKE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANKS FOR THE -- FOR SAYING THAT YOU WATCHED "CHAT BOX."

APPRECIATE THAT.

ARKO, THOUGHTS ON THE 37th?

>> LOOK, I MEAN, THIS, AGAIN, THIS IS A REPEATED THEME, BUT IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN TO THE LINE, AND I THINK PEOPLE IN GORDON JOHNSON'S CAMP ARE FEELING GOOD ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE WHEN LOOKING AT INTERNAL POLLING.

YOU KNOW, HAVE TO TAKE THAT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, BUT THE FACT THAT HE'LL BE ON THE LINE, YOU KNOW, IT IS A HUGE LEG UP IN TERMS OF OVERCOMING BEING ANOTHER KNOWN NAME.

I MEAN, BOTH OF THESE FOLKS ARE KNOWN NAMES IN THIS DISTRICT.

THEY'VE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER FOR NEARLY 15 YEARS, BUT AS STACEY POINTED OUT, THEY HAVE VERY SIMILAR VOTING RECORDS, SO TO ME, THIS LOOKS LIKE JUST SORT OF A LINE VERSUS AGAINST A LINE AND GETTING THOSE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS OUT TO VOTE IN A VERY DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THE LEG UP ADVANTAGE WOULD BE TO THE PERSON WHO GOT THE LINE.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S TURN TO MATT FRIEDMAN'S FAVORITE RACE, THE SENATE PRIMARY IN THE 20th DISTRICT, ASSEMBLY MAN JAMAL HOLLY IS TAKING ON INCUMBENT JOE CRION.

DID HOLLY EVER HAVE A SHOT, MATT FRIEDMAN?

>> MAYBE IF HE HAD MAYBE STUCK TO SOME DIFFERENT ISSUES INSTEAD OF REALLY BASING HIS WHOLE POLITICAL PERSONA ON THE ANTI-VACCINE MOVEMENT.

BUT THAT'S WHAT HE CHOSE AND THAT'S NOT EXACTLY AN ISSUE THAT PLAYS GREAT IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

I FIND IT VERY ODD THAT SOMEONE RUNNING IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY WOULD TEASE HIS APPEARANCES ON NEW JERSEY 101.5 WITH BILL, WHO IS PHIL RIZZO'S GUY.

I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT HIS TWITTER FEED, HE'S OUT THERE LIKING TWEETS FROM PHIL RIZZO.

IT'S A STRANGE STRATEGY FOR A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY AND I WONDER WHAT HE WILL DO AFTER THIS.

I THINK IF HE HAD BEEN LESS OUT ON ON THESE ISSUES, HE WOULD HAVE HAD A GOOD CHANCE TO CAPITALIZE WHAT IS AN ISSUE, A WHITE MAN SENATOR IN A HEAVY MINORITY DISTRICT AND YOU COULD USE MORE MINORITY REPRESENTATION THERE.

BUT HE'S CHOSEN TO GO A STRANGE DIRECTION.

AND YOU KNOW, WHEN I TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT HIM, IT SEEMS THE COMMON REFRAIN IS, WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM?

YOU KNOW, WHAT CAUSED HIM TO VEER OFF THIS WAY?

PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW IF HE'S GENUINE OR IF HE SAW A NICHE OPPORTUNITY THAT'S EASY CAMPAIGN MONEY AND EASY ADULATION.

BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF HIS, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTERS, IF YOU LOOK ONLINE AT WHO'S RETWEETING HIM AND GETTING ON HIS TWITTER FEED AND IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN PHOTOS WITH HIM, HE'S LITERALLY, LIKE, STANDING NEXT TO A WOMAN WHO WAS ARRESTED IN THE CAPITOL INSURRECTION.

VERY STRANGE FOR A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY.

MAYBE I'M WRONG.

I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, AN EXPERT ON THE 20th DIRECT.

MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING I DON'T SEE.

BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

>> MATT, I THOUGHT THERE AS MATT FRIEDMAN DID THAT HOLLEY HAD A PATH.

I GUESS HE CHOSE NOT TO.

IT SEEMS LIKE LATE IN THE GAME HERE, HE'S TRYING TO GET IN THAT LANE, BUT A LITTLE TOO LATE, MAYBE?

>> LOOK, MATT SAID IT VERY WELL.

I WILL JUST SAY THAT I THINK THERE IS PROBABLY A VERY SMALL POCKET OF FAR LEFT PEOPLE THAT ARE VACCINE SKEPTICAL THAT GOES BACK KIND OF DECADES MAYBE.

AND NOW THERE'S JUST SOMETHING THAT'S POPULAR ON BOTH FRINGES OF THE PARTY, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

BUT I MEAN, IS THAT ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT YOUR ISSUE, TO REALLY GALVANIZE ENOUGH DEMOCRATIC VOTERS?

I'M HIGHLY, HIGHLY SKEPTICAL.

I MEAN, WE SAW ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER THE OTHER DAY COME OUT FOR JAMEL HOLLEY FOR THIS ONE PIECE OF LEGISLATION BUT HAVE WE SEEN ANY BLACK LEADERS SUPPORT HOLLEY OR LATINO LEADERS FROM THE DISTRICT?

I HAVEN'T.

>> HE MESSED THAT ONE UP WHEN HE ALIENATED THEM OVER THE WATER ISSUE LAST YEAR.

STACEY SHERMAN, MURPHY VERSUS CIATTARELLI IN THE FALL.

I MEAN, GRANTED, IT'S THE FIRST WEEK IN JUNE, SO A LOT CAN CHANGE, BUT LOOKING AT WHERE THINGS ARE RIGHT NOW, IT'S MURPHY'S RACE TO LOSE, RIGHT?

HOW CAN HE LOSE IT?

>> THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD WAY OF SUMMING IT UP.

IT IS HIS RACE TO LOSE.

I THINK, THOUGH, WE WILL SEE HOW THE RECOVERY GOES.

FOR NEW JERSEY VOTERS, THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS ALWAYS TAXES AND TAXES ARE HIGH, AND THAT'S WHERE IT'S, YOU KNOW, IN A COUPLE MONTHS, PEOPLE ARE STILL HAVING TROUBLE PAYING THEIR BILLS, PAYING THEIR TAXES, THEY MIGHT GO TO THE POLLS AND VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN WHO PROMISES TO CUT TAXES AND CUT SPENDING.

>> MATT ARKO.

>> LOOK, I WOULD JUST SAY, I MEAN, NOBODY -- NOBODY'S GOING TO BE PAYING ATTENTION TO THE ELECTION THIS SUMMER.

THAT'S USUALLY THE CASE.

BUT WITH THE PANDEMIC KIND OF FADING AWAY, PEOPLE WANT TO GET OUT AND HAVE A REGULAR SUMMER.

SO, THE REAL QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE PANDEMIC?

ARE THEIR NUMBERS GOING UP?

IF THEY DO GO UP BECAUSE SOME SORT OF NEW STRAIN OR SOMETHING AND THEN SOMETHING HAPPENS, LIKE, KIDS ARE GETTING PULLED OUT OF SCHOOL AGAIN, KIDS WEARING MASKS IN SCHOOL, AND THE ECONOMY BEING IN A -- MAYBE IN A SPOT WHERE GAS IS STILL CLIMBING UP FROM $3 PLUS A GALLON AND THE PRICE OF EGGS GO UP, THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS AND DEMOCRATIC VOTER APATHY THAT COULD REALLY SNARE THE GOVERNOR.

BUT I THINK THAT'S JUST -- SO MUCH OF THAT DEPENDS OR HINGES ON THE PANDEMIC AND WHAT THE SITUATION IS LIKE IN SEPTEMBER.

>> ALL RIGHT, MATT FRIEDMAN, I GOT 12 SECONDS FOR YOUR ANSWER ON THIS.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, EASY ANSWER IS, FIVE MONTHS IS A LONG TIME IN POLITICS, OBVIOUSLY.

I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF A COPOUT, BUT RIGHT NOW, DO I SEE IT?

NO.

BUT LOOK, CORZINE LOST WHEN THE ECONOMY CRATERED AND IT WASN'T RECOVERING FAST.

THAT'S A HUGE FACTOR IN WHY CHRIS CHRISTIE BEAT HIM.

IF THE ECONOMY WAS GOOD, WHO KNOWS WHAT NEW JERSEY POLITICS WOULD LOOK LIKE TODAY.

IT WOULD BE A LOT DIFFERENT.

>> THAT'S "ROUNDTABLE" FOR TODAY.

THANKS TO OUR PANEL, STACEY AND THE MATTS, AND TO OUR GUEST, BILL.

PROGRAMMING NOTE, BE SURE TO JOIN THE NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS TEAM ON TUESDAY FOR A FULL WRAP-UP ON PRIMARY NIGHT WITH ELECTION RESULTS AND ANALYSIS FROM BRIANA VANNOZZI AND THE ENTIRE NEWS TEAM, LIVE, PRIMARY NIGHT, TUESDAY, 11:00 P.M.

I'M OFF FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.

COLLEEN DAY WILL BE IN THE CHAIR.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ, AND BE SURE TO SCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL.

NJ BUSINESS BEAT AND NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

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SEE YOU IN A COUPLE WEEKS.

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