Announcer: Major funding for "Chat Box with David Cruz" is provided by the members of the New Jersey Education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support is provided by Insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey's political news.

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♪ David: Hi, everybody, welcome to Chat Box.

I am David Cruz.

It is Black history month, and Black history is American history, so we celebrate it all year long on the show.

We check on where progress is being made and where, especially in Jersey, it is not being made.

In our second half, we will be joined by former U.S.

Senator, presidential candidate, and New York Knick Bill Bradley.

Let's start with our panel, Assemblywoman Shavonda Sumter, who's the chair of the Legislative Black Caucus, Rev.

Charles Boyer, and James Gee, a founding principal of Stono Public Affairs.

Welcome to you all.

Pastor, I really am dreading this presidential election, A, because of the choices, and, B, the forces of division and intolerance seem to be on the march.

Can you dispel me of this notion?

Rev.

Boyer: Gosh, well, no, I think we are in a terrible situation when it comes to the status of the nation and the threats to our democracy.

The previous president has done things which we have never seen before, stoked the embers and the fires of racism and anti-Semitism, doing really unprecedented things that we have not seen in at least several generations, and that threat to our democracy, the storming of the Capitol on January 6, the undermining of our elections, and coming, once again, this party, which has given a full throated endorsement has surrendered their spines to racism, bigotry, and caused a rolling back of women's control of their bodies.

They have given all of their support to this nominee, so I cannot dispel that.

I think we are in a very blessed place, but we look forward to turning out big time and hopefully returning the right person back to office.

David: Assemblywoman, do you see things differently?

>> Reverend Boyer always gets it right, and it is great to be on a panel with him this morning.

The exciting thing is that the action is at the state level, so while the federal government has turned back reproductive rights for Roe v. Wade, I am encouraged that in New Jersey, we have expanded freedom and are protecting women's access to reproductive health, which is health care.

Additionally, I am excited because the Biden administration did appoint... Ketanji Brown Jackson to our Supreme Court.

That is important.

David: James Gee, you are a strategist on political campaigns.

It seems the negativity we hear a lot today is what helps candidates raise funds.

Mr. Gee: Yeah, that is the bad thing right now and the low dollar assignment that it's created and makes you money.

We think people are saying outrageous things, but what they are really doing is tweaking their supporters, so you are rewarded for doing the most outrageous things.

So as opposed to people doing what is right and responding in a way that is respectful and just and really looking into issues and trying to be substantive, you are rewarded with high, low dollar contributions when you say something outrageous.

And that is the influence of money and power in politics, the driving factor in why they act the way they act.

David: I've got to ask all of you, can you please explain the phenomenon of Blacks for Trump?

That appears to be a thing.

I understand Blacks for Bush, Blacks for Reagan, even for the other or George Bush, but how does one reconcile that?

James, you are in this business.

Mr. Gee: Well, the mistake has been forever to believe that Black people are a monolith.

There is a soft pattern among Black folk.

The challenge is for those who believe in righteousness and who believe in right versus wrong is to be clear where our values are.

We don't expect everyone should fall in line and be a Democrat, but we do expect that everyone would fall in line and make sure we are supporting candidates that are respectful of our past and support those issues that support our community, and I think there is a very clear demarcation between the parties at the moment.

David: I mean, it is one thing to agree with someone's economic policy or foreign policy, but it is quite another to support an individual who speaks that way.

Assemblywoman, do you know any Black Trump supporters, and what do they say to you?

Asw.

Sumter: We are at a moral crossroads in our country.

We are not monolithic as a people, but caring about the things along the way, it is one of those atrocities that will lead us to past mistakes where people are not educated on the story of the institutions, the investor just of slavery have endowed and imbued upon this country and upon Black Americans within this country.

So I spend my time trying to work toward repair and restorative justice, amplifying the great work we are doing and the reasons why and showing compassion.

David: Pastor, you are in the hope business, man.

Can you minister to a Black Trump believer?

Rev.

Boyer: [laughs] Well, as much as I am in the hope business, I am also in the prophetic business, so if folks can't hear the gospel of liberation and racial justice, folks tend to be so driven into a space of hyper-individualism because that is the only way Trumpism can speak to a Black person, where they can only care about themselves and their own prosperity.

It is the only way in which a Trump message could speak to them.

It becomes very hard to minister to people who do not want to be ministered to and who also reject a ministry of caring for other people.

David: Right.

Let's look at Trenton.

Assemblywoman, your own party seems to be retreating from its social justice agenda.

Even as they get 90% from Black voters.

Has this progressive governor lived up to the hype?

Asw.

Sumter: I think in some regards, we have made progress.

Some of the systemic structural.

As we have been fighting for years, we still have fights, but I am pleased Public Safety is a big issue for us, and we passed legislation with an appropriation last year for $10 million for harm reduction centers.

You know I hail from the great city of Harrison, and this is something I have been very passionate about, being sure that law enforcement is coupled with mental health specialists who work with them and de-escalating techniques.

So everyone needs to help.

Our state still has some of the most segregated schools.

It is a battle that is in court right now, so, again, there's repair and struggles we have there, so I will not deny that, but some of the other issues we work on together, restoring the right to vote for persons on probation and parole, reproductive freedom act, which also impacts our minority communities, and of course maternal health and all the work we are doing there, and Reverend Boyer and his organization has been a partner with us on that as well as First Lady Tammy Murphy.

David: That is going to take me right into my next question could I cannot let you will go without asking about the Senate primary.

I'm not sure where all of you are in this race, but, assemblywoman, we will start with you.

How is it going for the first lady and the congresswoman?

Asw.

Sumter: I know we need resources.

We need a strong candidate.

David: You have you got?

Asw.

Sumter: Listen, the first lady has earned her stripes.

She's up against a three term congressman, so that is the work that needs to be put in.

I haven't endorsed a candidate.

I am watching and will be tuned in going forward.

David: Very good.

James, you work with candidates all the time.

Can you give a word or two of advice to Andy Kim and a word or two of advice to a Tammy Murphy, and tell us who you are backing.

Mr. Gee: I think they are both talented candidates, but my advice to be first lady is you cannot take for granted Congressman Kim.

Right now, we are seeing a lot of party support for the first lady, but the Monmouth convention and the level of support that Andy Kim is showing, look, I work with Andy Kim.

He is a great guy.

The secret sauce of most politics is authenticity, and he gives off authenticity to a voter.

It is going to be very difficult for anyone to outwork him.

I would give the advice to the first lady's team that the governor's power does not as thoroughly transfer, and to watch to make sure people who say they are supporting you actually are supporting you.

To me there is an undercurrent that people do not talk about.

People somewhat resent the idea.

David: Oh, I think people are talking about that in little bit more now.

Pastor, the consensus is she is having problem connecting.

You cannot make her, Charles Boyer, come with any tips on how she might connect better?

Rev.

Boyer: Listen, the first lady has to earn it.

Also given the mechanics, one of my major concerns was that people would feel intimidated by the systems that we have, and I feel confident, or I feel hopeful, that the governor and team and that whole apparatus will look forward to a robust campaign, and I think Andy Kim is certainly bringing that.

But I also want to lift up that there are other candidates in this race, right?

That we often don't talk about.

Patricia Campos will be at my church on Sunday.

Andy Kim was at the church a couple of weeks ago.

Tammy Murphy was there over the summer.

We continue to keep the doors open so black folks, I encourage every single one of these candidates, it was Larry, every single one of these candidates what I encourage, speak to Black issues, because I'm not sure any of these can be speaking as robustly as they could outside of Larry Hamm.

David: I know our panel can border on loquacious.

One word answer, Will democracy survive this upcoming presidential election?

Asw.

Sumter: Absolutely.

David: Charles Boyer?

Rev.

Boyer: Yes, because Black people will turn out.

David: James Gee?

Mr. Gee: Yes.

David: Excellent.

Optimism.

Good talking to all of you.

Thanks for coming on.

Good to talk to you all.

Our next guest is a former U.S. senator, two-time Champion hall of famer, and now filmmaker.

>> Centre court, knowing you are the best in the world.

Mr. Bradley: It lasted about 48 hours.

>> One of the things you talked about was working in Washington, for the government.

Mr. Bradley: At some point in my life, perhaps I would like to work for the government?

I chose politics because I saw how government made millions lives better.

I wanted to know America like I once knew the seams of a basketball.

David: His autobiographical one-man show is now streaming on Mac after making its debut at the Tribeca film Festival.

It is a pleasure to welcome Bill Bradley to Chat Box.

Senator, good to see you.

Welcome.

Mr. Bradley: Hey, David, great to see you again.

David: You kind of surprised me.

I don't know what I expected, but having covered some of your term in office, this is not what I thought a lot about us would see from Bill Bradley at 80.

I know the story of how this project came to the screen, but in an interview that are so with you, you called it a play, and you've done it in front of audiences.

Was this the plan all along, or was this an autobiography that just got away from you?

Mr. Bradley: No, it was the plan all along, ever since I gave my papers to Princeton and had a reception for all those who participated in our history, and one of the people who were there , 72 plays on Broadway, he came up to me afterwards and said it sounds a little bit like Hal Holbrook doing Mark Twain.

You want to work something out.

So I did.

David: Also, you look super chill in this, as relaxed as many of us have ever seen you.

How has this Bill Bradley differed from the Bill Bradley who ran for president and different from those guys who won the championship with the Knicks?

Mr. Bradley: He's older and wiser.

David: Yeah.

[Laughter] Mr. Bradley: I think they are basically the same person, but down the road a little bit.

And I did this because I really thought that this could be a healing impact on people who see it, and the reason it was so personal is I felt it would give credibility when I said we need to have other people tell their stories as well, but the combination of all of our stories, candidly shared, would be an American story and emphasize the common humanity.

Politics is too brittle these days, and I want to get to a deeper level, so I wanted to demonstrate that.

David: It is wonderfully written and wonderfully told, I mean, it is just you kind of standing on the stage.

What do you want us to take away from it?

Mr. Bradley: There are several things.

One is would like people to see this, if they are moved, if they see themselves in it one way or another, that they tell their own story.

One of the key lines of the whole show toward the end is saying, you know, we are so divided in this country today.

Maybe we could learn with what made the Knicks teams successful: take responsibility for yourself, respect your fellow human being, disagree with them open, honestly, and civilly, and enjoy the humility, and what my grandmother used to say, Never look down on people you don't understand.

David: Yeah.

You talk a lot in this piece about race.

Your experience with Black people as a custodian in your dad's bank, on the road with the Knicks in the 1960's.

You acknowledge how lucky you were to have that, but it seems nowadays they're such an effort in the current public debate to separate people, especially by race.

Mr. Bradley: Yeah.

That is most unfortunate.

I mean, we are the best when we are together as human beings, not as different, any kind of differences, whether it is race or gender or whatever.

I think one of the messages of this film is that we are all in this together.

We are going to succeed or fail together.

It will not be a couple of us exceeded the rest of us fail.

David: I was watching some old Bradley for president TV ads.

Mr. Bradley: where did you get those?

David: They'll on YouTube.

You live forever on YouTube, I think.

It got me thinking, 80, you look pretty darn good for 80, right?

It got me thinking about Gore and Bush and Florida, because if not for a few bad primaries for you, that would have been Bradley versus Bush, but I thought about Gore and Bush and Florida in 2000, I mean, can you imagine something like that happening today with social media and our thirst for conspiracy?

Mr. Bradley: Yeah.

I know.

I mean, the debate has to change dramatically, fanned by social media.

Let's face it, we all grow up, maybe our coach or a parent told us when you lose, congratulate your opponent.

We acted out of honor, not out of grievance, and we knew if we worked hard, we could achieve excellence, and if enough of us achieve that excellence, that America itself would move forward, based upon that.

And if we start pointing fingers and shouting at each other, you know, that is brittle politics.

It is not what life is.

David: Were we headed this way all along, as soon as our mass communication became even more massive?

Were we already headed this way?

Mr. Bradley: To a certain extent, yes.

When I left the Senate, I pointed out what I felt were the flaws of the system back in 1996, that there's way too much money in politics.

There is still way too much money in politics.

That is courtesy of the Supreme Court, you know, and one of the dumbest decisions in American history, Citizens United, saying money is speech, and you cannot limit the amount of money spent on a campaign.

That is the core problem, and then it is exacerbated by social media and special interest groups that used to be primarily interested only in their economic interests, and now of course they are interested in ideological interests, but the result is the same.

It divides us.

It puts us into camps, and that is not where America does best.

I mean, we all came from all over, and here we are, and we have to live together and do so in a way that allows us to prosper.

David: In our previous segment, I was saying how I was dreading this presidential election that is upcoming.

Am I being too dramatic?

Mr. Bradley: Uh, no.

I don't think you are being too dramatic.

It is the most consequential election of my lifetime, and I lived through a lot of consequential elections, in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's.

And so I think a lot is at stake in this election.

Are we going to do what we learn from our parents, or are we going to be angry?

Are we going to be motivated out of honor or grievance?

I mean, basically, we all know what is the best thing to do.

The question is, do we have the courage to do it and trust each other?

We have to see each other as human beings, not as cardboard cutouts that prevent us from sharing what we really care about in life.

David: You know, Senator, that sounds great, and I'm with you there, but it seems so difficult to get anybody from either camp to just have a coffee together, or is that just the perception that we get by the people who want it to be so that we don't get together?

Mr. Bradley: I think it is fanned by the media, it's fanned by some self-interested politicians, and a lot of self-interested interest groups on the right, primarily, but also on the left.

And I think that, you know, there are enough people in the Congress who want to do the right thing, that there is still reason for hope.

Now, we are in a terrible system, dominated by money, as I mentioned earlier, more and more polarized by social media, by us thinking of the small things.

I always like to think kind beats anger, and that's not a soft thing to say, because to be kind, you have to be very strong, and I think this election has to be a little bit of that, kind versus anger.

David: All right, I would be remiss if I did not ask you what you thought about this Knicks team.

I heard you on the broadcast the other day.

What do you think of this Knicks team, as good as we seen in a long time, no?

Mr. Bradley: We had a good January.

The way you have a good team is do what you did in January, in February and March.

There are good signs about selflessness.

The name of the game in basketball is maximum player movement and ball movement that rewards unselfishness.

I keep my fingers crossed, because once a Knicks fan, always a Knicks fan.

David: It is called "Rolling Along," streaming now on Max.

Thanks for coming on with us.

That is Chat Box this week.

Thanks also to Assemblywoman Shavonda Sumter, Reverend Charles Boyer, and James Gee earlier.

You can find more content including full episodes when you scan the QR code on your screen.

I'm David Cruz.

For all of the crew here at Gateway Center, thanks for watching.

See you next week.

Announcer: Major funding for "Chat Box with David Cruz" is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support is provided by Insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey's political news.

Insider NJ is committed to giving serious political players an interactive forum for ideas, discussion, and insight.

Online at InsiderNJ.com.

♪ ♪