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pro-Palestinian protests.

Encampments on college campuses and canceled graduation ceremonies.

What roles are women playing?

Then, after feeling sidelined?

Apparently, Vice President Kamala Harris goes front and center in the campaign for a second term for the Biden-Harris administration.

(MUSIC) Hello, I'm Bonnie Erbe' Welcome to To the Contrary, a discussion of news and social trends from diverse perspectives.

Up first, the battle over the war .

College protests against Israel's war in Gaza are dominating headlines.

But only a sliver of students are participating in protests or view Gaza as a top issue.

According to a New Generation Lab poll of 1250 students surveyed nationwide, only 8% have participated in the protests.

Asked to rank the issue that is most important to them, the war in Gaza ranked nine out of nine issues mentioned.

Almost 80% said either health care or civil rights were the most important.

The percentage of women protesters is unclear.

What is clear was that the vast majority of women who did participate wore headscarves.

So did the men.

It's hard to know whether women wore headscarves because they are observant Muslims, or just to hide their faces and identities.

Meanwhile, Columbia University president Minou Shafik rode out the toughest week of her ten month tenure without taking any tough stance on anti-Semitism.

Two other first time female presidents of Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania resigned earlier this year for not denouncing anti-Semitism during testimony before Congress.

Joining us today, Linda Chavez chair of the center for Equal Opportunity.

Jessica Washington, freelance political reporter.

Debra Carnahan, retired judge and federal prosecutor.

And Ginny Gentles of the Independent Women's Forum.

So, Linda, going to you, the, demonstrations on campus.

I was really surprised to find this poll late in the week showing that only 8% of college students had participated in these demonstrations, and that out of nine issues, college students ranked the war in Gaza as their ninth most important, meaning their least important, with health care and civil rights at the top.

So I'm just wondering, is the fact that more women aren't participating or showing their faces in this debate, impacting the fact that there aren't it's a lot seems to be a lot more sizzle than steak.

Well, it's not terribly surprising to me that it ranks low among student concerns.

you know what?

Certainly those of a certain age, as I certainly am.

remember all of the demonstrations on college campuses over the years, particularly during the Vietnam War.

I graduated, university in 1970.

And that, of course, was the year of the Cambodia invasion.

Schools shut down.

there was huge demonstrations and and these demonstrations while they've been very noisy, and disruptive.

And it could have included encampments in places, from California to New York.

I don't think had the same impact.

But the role of women here is very interesting,Bonnie Can one imagine an organization called Feminists For Hamas?

I mean, Hamas is a very really misogynistic organization.

And so what is surprising to me is that there are any women who want to be on the side of Hamas on college campuses.

because, radical Islam is, in my view, very anti-woman.

And you don't see very many women in the streets of Gaza, by the way, when there are scenes, showing, people out and about in the streets, the women, don't seem to be out and about.

And that's because in that society, women hidden.

They're not allowed in, in Islamic countries.

And I've been to a dozen of them.

they're not allowed out in the street, usually in the strict countries without, a male escort or someone from their family.

And, in the worst countries such as Iran and, Afghanistan, they have to only show a slip of their eyes, totally unidentifiable.

anybody else's thoughts on this topic?

Yeah.

I would love to jump in.

I mean, I would certainly disagree that women have not played a large role in the calls for a ceasefire.

I mean, even so, I, I'm lucky to work on a project, about roughly two years ago with the Fuller Project for International Reporting on women.

And we were able to talk to Palestinian women who were fighting for equal rights for Palestinians, within Israel and within Gaza and within the West Bank.

And I was able to talk to Palestinian women and journalists, who were really fighting for equality, and they were fighting for equal rights within the Israeli government, the right to vote, the right to return issues that are obviously pressing, many of the people that I have interviewed in this movement in the United States, including Jewish voices as well, have been women, have been queer folks.

so I think this concept that it's only men who are are fighting on this issue is just not, not held up.

To where nobody's saying nobody's saying that it's only men.

Clearly, when you look at the crowds, you can tell, there there are a large number of women in them, a large percentage, however, one wonders, with the, fact that when you look under the hood, so many or the face coverings, be it a mask or what have you, so many of the men who are participating to me look so much older than college students.

and the fact that everybody is covering their faces, as nobody did this during the Vietnam War, demonstrations, nobody has done this.

Even Martin Luther King said you're supposed to go out there, you're supposed to protest.

If you're arrested, take your punishment from society.

That's part of the protest.

He didn't say cover up and pretend not to be who you are.

Yeah.

Bonnie, I think you're making a really good point that a lot of these individuals on college campuses are likely outside agitators, and they're taking advantage of college students compassion and concern about world events, about the people who live in Israel and Palestine.

And they're turning them into these angry mobs.

Sometimes we see this in Washington, D.C., that we call it a rent a mob, where you just all of a sudden have a group that's there angry and stirring things up.

Are these who are these people?

Rent a mob?

Well, there is, evidence that that there are paid agitators, who are, who are given, stipends by various or.....

They just out of work people or what are that.

perhaps theirr work is to be an agitator.

So they take these stipends and they go where they're sent to the campuses, and then they stir up, likely compassionate students who are there and again, have concerns they might not be informed on the issues.

They obviously don't have strong historical or civic knowledge.

that's a problem that we have nationwide, and we have evidence of that in our test scores.

So these students are showing up on campus without a strong grasp of history, of geography, of an understanding of world events, or even what, what various world religions stand for.

And the agitators go in, with their paid for tents and pay for signs.

And I guess they're handing out these scarves and asks to Bonnie.

So, everyone.

Where are you citing the evidence of paid, paid protesters from?

Because I certainly just looking at when when, I don't know if anybody saw the story about the poor guys who were working at Hamilton Hall the night they were the janitors and such, and they were doing their jobs late at night, and the so-called student protesters started breaking in.

And if you look at the picture in The New York Times of the guy who was struggling with the main, the main, night worker, who was trying to keep these students, so-called students out.

You can see that the face of the guy is a 40 year old man, a 40 year old white man.

So he is not, he is just.

He's not.

Didn't look like, the typical Palestinian, and certainly not of campus age.

I've been to Israel at least 5 or 6 times on diplomatic, missions.

Met with Netanyahu several times.

been to Lebanon, Jordan, and was there when they actually the last American group when they closed off the Gaza Strip and turned the strip over to the Palestinians?

And, of course, as you remember, that was a lot of, conflict in Israel.

So these are really complex issues.

I respect the right of these students to protest.

If we respect the right of women to cover their faces when we have security issues in the United States.

If it is a religious, how if it's part of, you know, their religion, just like nuns would wear coverings, I think it's all right to cover your faces.

however, I think it's also okay that if you get arrested, you know, your face is uncovered for sure.

I don't know.

Maybe pre Spanish Inquisition nuns covered their faces.

I don't go that my Catholic history doesn't go back that far, but.

At least even in the.

50s when their when nuns still wore nun outfits and now nuns looked like you and me, they, they they're not forced to wear anything.

Nuns back then did not cover their faces.

And we have a security issue here.

I just once again, I don't think that's the issue that's going on.

I think there's more of an issue going on of agitators, and there are tons of stories of that.

And these agitators moving around from campus to campus.

There's a worldwide issue going on with people trying to radicalize the youth and tap into what youth does, be dissatisfied, question the status quo.

and I think that one of the reasons the polling shows that it's like 8%, participation of students.

Is just that.

It really isn't the student body as a whole as much as people coming in.

and I think .... Alright.

Jessica, let's your thoughts.

there are a lot of, of course, African American.

Islamists in this country when it comes to people security in a day when security is not that great anymore because there are all kinds of individual and small group terrorists doing all kinds of things.

should a woman's right to practice her religion?

and she could still practice her religion.

Obviously, she could still go to the mosque.

She could still pray, you know, pray five times a day.

but she can't.

But she believes that her face needs to be covered in in order for her to be a true Muslim is, which which matters more?

Yeah, I'm fully in the belief that people should be able to practice their religion, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of other people.

And I have no evidence that these women have carried out any kinds of attacks are terrorists.

I mean, we just don't, you know, I mean, there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

And obviously, in that case, we certainly shouldn't be infringing upon people's rights to practice their religion.

But police have said that they have had trouble identifying even the people they arrest.

They can't identify them, they won't give them identification and they cover their faces.

Yeah.

I mean, in my opinion, that's, you know, law enforcement's job to figure that out.

However they have to.

I mean, we have certainly plenty of, you know, security.

We have plenty of security on those campuses, plenty of cameras.

I mean, we live in a city now where, you know, anyone can really be identified.

So I'm not too concerned about the fact that there are women who are choosing to practice their religion in a way that, appears to make some other people uncomfortable.

I think they have every right to do that, (Talking over each other) - to their religion.

I think that this is part of their training, and I believe Peggy Noonan had a column in the Wall Street Journal where she was trying to talk to some of these student protesters, and they were like, no, I haven't been trained.

I can't talk to you.

Yeah, that's I think that's great that they're getting organized, that they are learning how to protest effectively, to push their point.

People are always saying that these protests are useless and these students don't know what they're talking about.

They're not organized.

The fact that these kids are getting organized, they are doing media training.

They're trying to make sure they have a concentrated message so they can actually be effective.

Is is not a bad thing.

I think that's inspiring that these kids are really working towards actually being effective in their messaging, as opposed to just simply being disruptive.

They're actually trying to push a specific message.

I think that's great.

Yeah.

And I didn't mean the message training being the problem.

I mean, being trained to hide their identity is part of the concern here.

But I just interject here, Bonnie, because, you know, I think it would be very interesting to know, how many young Muslim women attending classes at Columbia attend in the full hijab with their faces entirely covered?

I happen to be someone who believes that if you want to cover your face and you believe it's part of your religion, that you are entitled to do so.

And I am interested in the rights of Palestinian women.

I'm particularly interested in those rights being honored, in the Palestinian territories, in Gaza, and, in the West Bank, 21% of the population of Israel is made up of Palestinians.

They have equal rights.

They have the right to vote.

I would love to see Palestinian women standing up for their rights in the territories that their own elected governments, whether it's the Palestinian Authority or in Gaza, Hamas honor.

We see that in Iran, by the way, women have taken to the streets saying they don't want to be forced to be covered.

They don't want the vice patrol out there.

they want to be able to have equal rights, which they don't have.

in Iran.

So I'm all for these rights, but let's make sure that, they're able to exercise them in their own countries as well.

Ginny, last question to you, Sheryl Sandberg, the former COO of, Facebook, now with their own multibillion dollar foundation, has a documentary out about the sexual abuse perpetrated by the the Hamas terrorists on the, I guess, score.

I don't know the exact numbers, but of the 1200, Israelis who were arrested, kidnaped from the festival they were attending on October 7th show some very bloody scenes of of, Hamas terrorists killing the women, stabbing them with knives while they were raping them.

Bloody pants of one woman who was killed, paraded all over the place like this was a great thing that they did.

Will this have any impact at all on Hamas or or as I assume, No.

I don't think it will have an impact on these kind of brainwashed, radicalized, highly trained minority group of of students and agitators.

But on the American public who might have forgotten what we were so appalled by on, October 8th, when all of the evidence of what happened on October 7th, I think it's probably an important reminder, a horrifying reminder of what happened and why it's important to stand by the Israel, people, the Israeli people, in their rights to defend their selves and ensure that this never happens again.

All right.

From the anti-war protests to the push for a second term, Vice President Kamala Harris is on the road campaigning for the Biden-Harris ticket.

The VP is on what the white House is dubbing the Economic Opportunity tour across several swing states.

She's touting the administration's accomplishments.

This week, she went to Michigan to announce the administration's $100 million fund to help small and medium auto parts makers, then to Pennsylvania to talk about women's rights on the agenda for next week.

Wisconsin for the fourth time this year, Can Kamala Harris on her own, lure back to the party and actually get out to vote disaffected African Americans, particularly women.

Harris is, in person in particular, a very electric speaker.

so last night I attended the Emily's List gala, and when I was there, I watched as people who were, part of the wait staff were coming out to try and get a glimpse of her to speak, to try and record this moment.

And I think it's so easy when we're talking, you know, politics, and we get these little clips of people to be like, oh, she sometimes stumbles over her words.

But I think when you see her in person and you see the way that people react to her, she really does have an electric presence.

So I think it's a smart move to have her out there and to have her, as a, in an office, a surrogate, but as a, you know, face of, of this campaign, I think that's that's smart.

What do you think about African Americans, particularly young African Americans and the whole topic we just finished the Gaza war.

Fear of Trump is a huge presence in that.

I mean, it was true in 2020.

It's true now.

I think there are a lot of young African American voters who are concerned about that.

But I also think there are a lot of young African American voters who are very upset about what's gone on in Gaza and the US's participation and funding, of the war.

I think there are a lot of young African American voters who will not show up as a result of that.

I mean, I've definitely spoken to people for whom that's true.

I think the polling, when you look at younger black voters in particular, it's definitely an issue that resonates more with this group.

Ginny, your thoughts on, whether Harris can help poll, the African-American community and women of color?

She's also half Asian.

back into the Biden camp and get them out to vote in November.

Well, she's not entering the campaign in a position of strength.

There was a recent USA today poll that showed that 54% of those who were surveyed felt that she's not qualified to be president, which would indicate that they don't trust her and and don't believe in and her, success as a vice president.

And then that number was 37% of African Americans who were polled.

So I think it would be rude to the community to assume that because of her background, that they automatically support her and the evidence shows that that's not the case.

37% believe that she is not qualified to be president.

so that going in in a position of weakness, not just in the polling numbers, but also in what the administration has done for the economy, going to the grocery store is a painful experience for Americans, and they'll remember that when it's time to vote.

Well, I think Ginny is , right, that the economy is going to be the number one issue.

but as I've been saying, my entire political career, presidents get credit for good economies and they get blamed for bad economies.

And it really doesn't matter all that much whether they're responsible.

And certainly Joe Biden is not responsible for the inflation.

That is not just the United States, but worldwide.

In fact, our inflation experience has been a better one, than many, advanced countries in Europe and elsewhere.

So, I do think, though, that, Vice President Harris does have to prove herself.

I mean, one would think that after three.

But, you know, I just want, having not too long ago re read, Robert Caro's book about LBJ, one of his four books about LBJ.

LBJ was really frustrated.

Kennedy did nothing with him, gave him an office, and literally he was sitting there on the phone with his buddies entertaining himself.

So, yeah, no, you're not unusual.

It's not unusual.

You're absolutely right about that.

I do think the one thing that makes this a little different, and we have to be able to talk about it honestly, is Biden's age.

I mean, I know among, my Republican friends, they like to talk about President Harris.

You're not electing Biden, you're electing President Harris.

And they're using that as a tool, to try to scare people.

So I do think she has to prove herself on the trail, getting her out there, not just in, you know, talking about abortion, which I think is a very strong issue, for the Democrats this year.

But getting her out there, talking about the economy, is, you know, the hope is that it's going to make people more comfortable.

I don't know whether that is true or not.

but we'll see.

And, you know, Bonnie, we discussed this last year on your show, about Vice President Harris.

And is she a liability?

Should Biden get someone new?

And then I remember saying, then she will be out there on the campaign trail.

She will be talking about choice.

she doesn't have to preside over the Senate as much as she used to.

It was Covid in the beginning of the Biden term.

And it's not unusual to keep your vice presidents in the background.

That's kind of what they're there for.

It's a thankless job.

I'm thinking about how much was Biden showing up during the two terms He was VP for Obama?

>Not much,.

>Not much.

And they touted that as a good relationship between the president and the vice president.

but I think six months is a long way to go.

I think she's out there.

She's an effective speaker.

I believe that she absolutely will bring some folks, back to the fold, including, African American women, women of color, when she's discussing these issues.

And I think it's going to be very, very hard for them, as women to sit out of this race knowing that if they do, we will have Trump.

And how much does the abortion issue play into this issue?

Huge.

Because it's not just abortion, right?

It's women's reproductive health.

It's women's health.

Invitro- fertilization.

Yeah.

All of these things, it's actually kind of anti-family on the invert, vitro fertilization, excuse me, got cut off on that, but I mean, we're seeing more and more that this is not talking about, young women who don't use birth control and want to have an abortion.

This is health care.

These are women's lives.

And I think that's really going to resonate, with women and women of color, because they disproportionately have, bad health care and worse results in their health care, especially in the area of women's reproductive areas.

All right.

Thank you all.

Great discussion, great topics.

That's it for this edition.

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