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Wild child labor laws typically prohibit minors from working.

The United States carves out exceptions for child performers in the glitzy world of Hollywood entertainment.

Child performers receive monetary compensation for their performances.

The question is, how are they protected?

Tonight, we meet a former working kid who makes sure these young performers are protected financially.

I'm so happy you're joining us.

From Los Angeles.

This is Clark's PBS.

Welcome to everybody with Angela Williamson and innovation, Arts, education and public affairs program.

Everybody with Angela Williamson is made possible by viewers like you.

Thank you.

And now your host, doctor Angela Williamson.

Mimi Gibson is our guest.

Mimi, it's so great to see you.

I feel like I already know you after reading this book.

Working Kid.

And we're going to talk about how this book has helped you with your advocacy today.

But before we get started, I know you feel like I'm putting you on the spot, right?

Oh, you have a long list of credits, so this should be easy for you today.

But before we get started, I want our audience just to get to know you, because I'm sure a lot of our audience is seeing you throughout all of the golden age of Hollywood, all these movies.

So let's.

How did you get started?

Oh, I was discovered by an agent.

And they did that back.

Back then I was coloring on the floor of.

My sister was taking a singing lesson.

I, was coloring and this agent, Hazel Macmillan, came in and looked at me and said, my mom want to put her in to the movies.

And my mom said, yeah, and that was that.

Two days later, Ed Corky of Gasoline Alley, it was an old time movie from an old time comic strip.

And that started all of it.

It did.

I mean, because you actuall let's talk about some of these movies and films that you've been in here.

Start with this one.

Okay.

That's Wings of Eagles.

Wings of.

Eagles.

And that's the Children's hour.

And then a bunch of houseboat pictures.

Because it's really my favorite.

And is it that I was in the.

Fantastic movie houseboat, and that was with, Sophia Loren?

Was she pretty new at that time?

She was the up and coming star.

Up and coming star.

And she was fun.

She was funny.

She was delightful.

And we all the three of us children loved her.

But they also to have this handsome person.

That handsome person.

Cary Grant.

You know, was so great, especiall about reading about housecoat.

And we'll talk about some of the other films that you had as well, too.

It's really interestin because, I mean, you are working right no and you've changed Coogan's Law and how they protect child performers.

Yes.

But what I found interesting in your book is really how all of you young performers were treate on the set because, for example, you you had to have certain tim that you spent in school.

Yep.

And so you had people on the set helping you do that as well.

But then you had to remember your lines in this.

You were really young when you started.

So how was that?

Did you think that this was normal?

No, no.

Okay, tell me why.

Well, you you're here, you're going to work, and you're a floor.

It's, none of the other kids, you know, except the kids that you work with are going to work.

You're the only one.

And so that's odd.

And to say that it's anything else is in denial.

And that's not just a river.

Said.

Well, and you talk, you know, talk about us being in and denial.

But when we go to movies, we love to see that cute kid in there, or that child that brings the the closing to that joke, or who makes us cry because they help that main actor see the the, close what they're thinking abou and coming up to that decision.

So w we love children in these roles.

It's so importan to the entertainment industry.

Yeah.

But it's what I liked about this book is that I'm actually hearing from your point of view as a chil and how you're seeing all this, because you're in somethin that's larger than life, right?

Right.

Right.

And to think that, being a working kid is normal.

It's not.

And you give up your childhood to be a working kid, and you're not aske if you want to be a working kid.

You're told you're going to be a working kid, and you do it because you're a good kid.

And most of the kids that work in the business, I don't care what they say.

They're good kids and they're smart kids.

And they wouldn't b able to do it if they weren't, because nobody' going to put up with a bad kid.

And stupid kids can't memorize the lines.

So you've got to be on your toes.

You've got to do what the adults do, and you have to go to school and do your homework.

Also.

So you're memorizing lines at night and you're also doing your homework.

So I think it's actually harder for a chil actor than it is for an adult.

So tell me, as working kid, what do you learn?

Well, you have to have, a really good memory.

First of all, to learn the dialog.

Okay So you have to know your dialog.

That's number one.

You have to know your spot, and you have to be on time.

And as long as you can do those three things and be a pleasant person.

And, you know, handle your job like a professional, like everybody else's.

You get lots of work.

So you can't get into trouble.

You can't do kid things.

You can't be a kid.

You can't.

You have to be a professional.

That's what you have to be.

Okay, s I understand what you're saying.

You have.

You can't be a kid.

You have to be a professional.

But when you think o how we grew up in our childhood, that's all a part of being a kid is.

Sometimes we get into the paint.

Yeah.

Sometimes we.

Do.

Not on the.

Set, not on is set.

You don't.

So if we're working and we're missing those years of where we can be mischievous and be a kid, and then all of a sudden we're not working anymore.

Do we miss that childhood?

Or do we take, like, these fond memories and to say, well, I didn't have a regular childhood, but I had this.

I mean.

It doesn't that I for you.

I think it does mess with you.

I do think it does because a lot of, you know, we have a lot of kid actors that have problems and they have problems because of things like that.

Cary Grant had the final say on who the kids were, really, and we went to his set where he was filming, I don't know what he was filming, and there was Charlie, Paul and me, and they had picked us out to be brothers and sister, and we came in and I'm kind of a chatterbox.

And I started reacting with Cary Grant.

And Paul said he looked at Cary, and Cary was looking across at Mel Shavelson, the director, and he nodded.

And so that's how we got hired for that movie.

So you literally talked yourself into a role as what you're telling me.

So one wa that you can be a child actor.

So I hear that you need to make sure that you can learn your lines, make sure you show up on time and you know your mark.

And that's a set term.

Yeah.

But also too it seems like you need to have a little bit of a personality.

So you almost have to be an extrovert.

And that's the rub.

Also because I'm an introvert.

Well, and I actually got tha from your book because you said you much rather read, read and be in solitude.

So how do you turn off that personality?

I am a created person.

I'm not me.

I am, fake person of me.

I was brought up.

You can't get apart.

If you're shy, you're quiet, you're introspective.

And none of that will get you apart.

You have to be big.

You have to be bubbly.

You know when they say, oh, kids, you know they're so full of themselves.

Well, you're brought up to be full of yourself.

That's because you have to show them that you can do things, and they like to see kids be animated.

They don't want them to be quiet.

They want them to show how fabulous a person they are, even though they're a kid.

So, I was brought up to be bubbly.

Another friend of mine was brought up to be sparkly.

Oh, I love how we're giving these little terms.

Okay.

And so that was what our parents said to us to get us, you know, more open, more grandiose.

Because you need to be grandiose to get these roles right.

You need to get their attention.

And that's how you do it.

And and it may be different these days, I don't know.

I have nothing to do with the business now, but but that was what we did in those days.

And we all laugh about it now and say, oh my gosh.

And here, you know, I' like reacting and all of that.

But, I don't know really what I'm really like.

Isn't that weird?

It is.

I'm not going to say it's weird because they will say that's bad for a host to tell our guests is weird, but, I mean, it's hard to find ou who you really are because it's almost like you're playing two parts.

One part that's in the movie or the TV but then you're playing the part of your own life.

Yeah.

It's like what, The Truman Show?

Oh.

That's true.

Yeah.

Well, I want to talk about how Mimi becomes an advocate in the second segment.

Our segment is done.

Okay, but when we come back, we want to talk about Coogan's Law.

We want to talk about how it started, where it could have been better for you.

That's my nice way of saying it.

And then we're going to talk about how you worked with Paul to change it.

Okay.

Okay.

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And thought that's that.

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Talk.

Jason.

Let's go see your room.

What do you think?

We kept it a little spare so you can decorate it how you like.

Dinner?

No.

Excellent.

So first up.

Yeah So you guys out there for the.

For the World Cup?

Yeah.

I might, I just.

That was an incredible first segment.

Thank you so much for giving us a little bit of your background.

Oh, thanks.

But we missed something.

Yeah, and I definitely want t talk about this because you play a most memorable character, somebody that we all, Tell us about these two photos here.

So I got to play Lucky Puppy in 101 Dalmatians.

I got to play The Voice.

I didn't get to play the body, just the voice.

And it was funny because we each went in separately.

There were five of us, and we did separately all the voice for each puppy, all the dialog for that segment and they would have storyboards along the edge of the recording studio that would show, you know, it was snowing, we were cold, all of that.

And then we would do the dialo that had to do with the snowing and the cold, but we would do all the puppy voices.

So when the movie came out, we didn't know who we were.

Then make it.

Get down.

Come on, lucky down there.

Missed him.

Missed him by a mile.

I'm hungry.

Mother.

I'm hungry.

Now, Rolly.

You just had your dinner.

But I am just the same.

I'm so hungry.

I could eat.

A whole elephant.

Yeah, because this movie was.

It was number 11 at the time I wrote the book.

Of all time?

Yes.

Yeah.

And it's on all the time.

And a lot of all of this is on all the time.

Leave it to Beaver.

It's on all the time.

My beavers are the best.

Yes.

It's.

Well, class, we're going to have a new student this morning.

A transfer from Hamilton.

I hope it's a guy.

Yeah One of the plays.

Center field.

Fact chant.

Just general.

That will be some dopey girl.

Oh, come in, Miss Tyler.

Glass.

This is Mary Tyler.

Hi, Mary.

Hello, seeds.

A dopey girl.

Mary, you can take that seat right over there.

You'll find the books underneath the desk.

Hi.

Yeah.

Hey.

Let me.

Start with our grammar lesson 14.

All right.

Now, Mr. Clayburn, would you read the first sentence?

That Mr. Cleaver.

Present?

I doubt that very much.

Theodore, we are trying to start our grammar lesson.

Oh, sure.

Now, I realize that we all want to make our new student feel at home.

But, let's not overdo it.

Mr.. My.

Well, to check out that episode.

Rather.

To show that one to audience.

But, but all the TV, everything.

And my friend Beverly Washburn got a check, a couple of days ago for a penny for our residual.

Now, why why send us?

I mean, it's like a slap in the face.

Really?

I would rather they just kept that money.

I I've gotten residuals like that, and and they give you a residual for something obscure that they're using it for.

And so it' not just the regular television.

So you get this.

Last time I got a residual for whatever, it's, probably something that was done in England or, you know, whatever.

It was it started out at $10, and by the time they took things out of it, I got five bucks.

And, you know, I would rather have somebody at SAG get a cup of coffee with it, and it's ridiculous.

Put it into a fund.

Yeah.

And when they were on strike, you know, they were all bemoaning oh, if I don't get my residuals.

And to me, that was like a stab in the heart because they get residuals.

We don't.

And that is just unconscionable.

They should have never given away something that would help old people.

I would love for you to tell our audience about that, because this impacts what we're talking about.

California's Coogan Law, that started in 1939 because of a very popular movie, who had a popular working kid, right?

Yeah.

So tell us that story.

Okay.

Coogan law was created because Jackie Coogan was beautiful.

He turned out to be Uncle Fester.

But when he was.

Well, it was hard for me to go back because I was thinking, that's Uncle Fester, but go back.

Yes, but in the kitchen.

Just absolutely.

Gorgeous.

He was just a gorgeous little boy and he made millions of dollars, and his family spent every penny of it.

They couldn't spend it fas enough, and it was embarrassing.

Okay.

Are you talking millions of dollars in 1930?

Yes.

So would that be like a bill?

Yeah, that would be like lots and bags.

Of money today.

Okay, okay, go back to your story.

I just want our audience to know this is a lot of money.

We're talking a lot of money.

And, so it was embarrassing to the studios.

They they just got together and they created the Coogan Law.

And the cooking log was good.

Okay.

It was 10%, and that was good.

And even though people say oh, well, that's not very much, kids don't have write offs, so they get taxed at the higher rate.

You have to provide your own clothes.

You have to teach kids dancing, singing.

You pay for that, all these different things.

But this law was in place.

So in my mind, I' thinking Mimi should be covered.

But you weren't.

No.

Why?

What was?

Cause it had a clause that said all children under contract.

Because.

And it.

Started out.

It started as a contract system.

Because when I came on board, I was an independent contractor.

I wasn't under contract to anyone.

And so all the kids that didn't have a series, and even some kids that were on series were independent contractors.

So it didn't apply to us.

So our parents got all our money in California.

Children are the chattel of their parents which means that any money they earn belongs to the parents.

So, this didn't apply to me.

I earned a lot of money I made a lot of movies you made.

I made 34 movies, and I did tons of TV and so it didn't apply.

I said I supported my family.

And so I saw Paul, and he was talking about how he started a minor consideration, and that was for kids that were having trouble transitioning into adult life from being a working kid in the industry.

And so many had committed suicide.

So many were drug addicts, and it was so awful.

And he tried to help everybody and that Paul did that just knocked me out.

I was really impressed.

So I called him and he said, where have you been?

And I said, living my life.

And you had a goat farm.

Yeah.

I had to go love it.

And he said, Mimi we're going back into the union to change the law.

And you changed it to California's Child Actors Bill.

Yes.

And it was very long in coming.

We were on the Young Performer Committee, which had a meeting every month, for eight years before our bill was passed.

It took us eight years and were executed.

Actors.

I don't know if any of you know, kid actors, but to get them to commit to anything for a long time is like a miracle.

So all of this was handled by ex kid actors and it was wonderful.

This is the highlight of my life.

It's now 15% de $1 one.

In the banks in response.

And the banks all have Coogan accounts.

They all know about it.

And you go in and open an account and no problem.

And the production companies all do Coogan accounts.

Everybody works hand in hand with this.

It's wonderful.

So I'm going to talk about how I was.

I'm recording my book and, I went on thumbtack to find somebody to record it for me.

And I interviewe all these people, and this one young man sounded like he knew what he was doing.

And, I didn't tell him what the book was about.

I just said I wanted to record my book, and he said, great.

And and he gave me differen instances of what you have to do and how you have to do certain things.

And I said, oh, great.

And I went to his recording studio, and I can only do it two hours at a time, because that's as long as I can stand hearing myself blather on, even though I here I am again.

So, at that time, I took him to lunch and, he said, I have something to tell you.

And I said, okay.

And he said I was a kid actor.

And I said, really?

And he said, yeah.

And he said, I have my recording studio because of my Coogan money.

And I said, Nathan, I said, you'r the person we were working for.

And I burst into, it still gets me.

This just gets me.

I, you know, we were working for him all these year and all the other kids that are.

And I'm so proud of all of us and the hard wor we did and how we hung in there.

And I'm so proud of you.

Thank you.

I know, y'all you get emotional.

That's okay.

You still look beautiful on television.

We we thank you so much for not only what you've done just to entertain us and spend time as a working kid, but you're taking some time to share your story with us, which is available.

We can find this on Amazon.

We can find it online.

Yep.

You're coming out with an audiobook.

I am.

But also too, with you being an advocate to make sure that all child performers are protected.

So thank you so much for was.

I loved our conversation.

To.

Too.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you for joining us on everybody with Angela Williamson.

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Join us on social medi to continue this conversation.

Good night and stay well.

Hi, I'm Angela Williamson, host of everybody with Angela Williamson.

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