This week on The Wheelhouse...

Dissent.

Its role in democracy and its role right now.

For Connecticut Public, Im Frankie Graziano.

THIS is the Wheelhouse, the show that connects politics to the people.

We got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond right here!

About two dozen Hands Off!

demonstrations recently took place across Connecticut.

Protesters called on President Donald Trump and Elon Musk to keep their “hands off” social safety net programs like social security and medicaid.

They rallied against the administration's walked back of diversity, equity, inclusion efforts, LGBTQ plus rights and funding for women's health care, and more.

Protesters also called for more dissent.

So what is the central role in democracy, and just how prevalent is protests in today's policy and politics?

Joining me now, Professor Archon Fung, professor of citizenship at the Harvard Kennedy School.

Professor Fung, thank you so much for joining us on the show.

Terrific to be here.

Thanks for having me.

So terrific to have you on.

Thank you so much for coming on.

Also with me, Bilal Sekou, Associate Professor of Politics and Government at the University of Hartford.

Bilal, great to have you here Go, Hawks.

I can live now.

I can live on Wednesday after hearing that.

And, Liz Kurantowicz, Republican Analyst and Owner of The Drury Group.

Liz, thanks for comin on The Wheelhouse!

So much for having me.

Thank you so much for coming on.

Hey, were you at one of these hands off protests?

Are you protesting?

Do you think people should protest right now?

Tell us why.

Give us a call.

(888) 720-9677, (888) 720-9677.

Lots of people across the country and the state right now, Bilal, turning out for protests of the Trump administration rallying cry hands off!

What does that mean?

Hands off way.

Means a lot of things to a lot of different people.

Obviously, Frankie.

You know, this administration is moving quite radically in its effort to essentially gut the administrative state, as they would describe it in so people who are concerned about programs ranging from Social Security to federal financial aid to students to Medicaid to Medicare, to grants, to education to pay for things like Head Start, to pay for Meals on Wheels, you name it.

There's a wide range of programs that the government runs and or provides funding for that.

This administration has straight in this bull's eye.

And it is not just, trying to find efficiencies, but they think it's really dismantling and trying to move to totally eliminate those things.

And so people were rallying against.

That news reportedly coming out that head start may be eliminated soon.

Archon, Connecticut Public reporter Danielle O'Donnell covered the hands off protests in Hartford.

She spoke with a woman at the event who said she worries about complacency.

She's talking about how Donald Trump's decisions may hurt Americans.

Is complacency a growing concern for some.

You know?

I don't think it's complacency so much as, maybe fear or a sense of powerlessness and what not to do about it.

I think we can see from public opinion polls that many, many people are concerned.

And, so I wouldn't say that complacency is what I'm thinking about, in terms of what's preventing people who might want to go to a hands off protest.

So that's number one is I would think about, other factors, like maybe people not knowing what to do about it or will at work, or maybe, you know, if you're not a, citizen, or maybe if you're only a naturalized citizen or you're only having a visa, you're afraid to show up because of what might happen to you.

And then, on the other hand, there is a lot of activity.

My colleague here at the Ash Center, Erica Chenowith and Jeremy Pressman.

And so.

Hum.

You can check on our website.

They've issued reports about the number of protests that are actually occurring, in the US, since the inauguration.

And a number two.

Thousand around there is that.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

And it's outstripping, you know, kind of it's, at a higher rate than what was in 2016 or 2017.

And that first Trump administration, it just more spread out.

So harder to see.

And I suspect that as things get warmer, we'll see more, more activities like the hands on April 5th demonstration.

And the fear thing is a relatively new I want to say with you on this one, Archon.

It's a relatively newer thing because we weren't necessarily talking about this during the election because we're talking about administration policies.

May preclude at least somebody saying, I may not want to go to this protests because they're worried about their status.

Is that what you're trying to say?

Oh, yeah.

I think they're worried about their status.

I think they're, you know, you may be worried about getting stuff on social media, you know, here at the center.

I've been teaching at the Kennedy School for, you know, 25 years.

And a couple of years ago, we had security installed everywhere with cameras and and lock buttons and panic buttons because of stuff that people are getting on social media.

That's very threatening.

And you talk to anybody who's run an election in the United States, since 2020 and after.

And, I will guarantee you that they and their colleagues have received a lot of static, some of it threatening, some of it requiring people to move house in, in many cases.

So the level of, just actual violence and intimidation in the United States is growing.

And that's, I think, coloring a whole environment for dissent.

Liz, we're talking about complacency versus fear.

We're talking about action.

People taking action right now.

You just heard what Archon said, that maybe people are feeling scared.

Do you think that's like a valid feeling, right?

Well, it's interesting.

I mean, I think that the point about, folks who are involved in the process being concerned, and then we've seen that here, right on both sides of the aisle, we've had elected officials have, bomb threats at their homes, where they live.

We've seen that, obviously, what horrific incident that happened with the governor of Pennsylvania.

So political violence, I mean, look, you know, President Trump was nearly assassinated during the campaign.

I think, political violence, unfortunately, is something that, folks are certainly aware of.

But I can tell you would having been around the campaign trail in over the last, you know, decade or so, I don't see a difference in activity level or people being interested or fearful of participating in the process.

I think we've seen all of that here in Connecticut, alive and well.

And there are other ways as well, people, voice their concerns.

For to those who are in elected, positions, I mean, you know, you go over to the state capitol, there are folks who are, elected.

They're they're getting emails and calls and, visits from constituents.

And, and the same is happening at the federal level where people are, voicing their concerns, and, and support, one way or the other.

I think, you know, the issue, for the hands off, demonstrations, I, I don't know quite what that supposed to mean.

And, and as a rally cry.

And I think there's a lot of, performative politics involved in this as well.

I think, you know, even Connecticut's Congresswoman Jahana Hayes from the fifth congressional District, last week did a, town hall on, on CNN and, and was very open about the fact that there are no current cuts to Medicaid.

And so I think we need to make sure that, you know, the information that we're getting out to folks is, is real and legitimate.

Not yet.

At least they're talking about $880 billion in cuts.

And I guess the rhetoric there is that, or at least the rumors, is that if you have to find somewhere to cut, it may be Medicaid.

So, exactly.

Nobody may have come out to say that the the sword is out on Medicaid.

But I want to follow up on, on Shapiro.

Yeah, you had that incident, but you also had Donald Trump was almost assassinated twice.

Yes.

I think there was the, the golf course gun incident.

Yeah.

So you're saying that maybe you're not seeing as much of a difference on the campaign trail, but there is maybe a rise in political violence, at least when we see, the, the some of the think tanks that we follow, they say that, 23% of Americans, something like that, or thinking that political violence is necessary to invoke change.

And that's like up from 18%.

So why do you think that political violence may be rising in the country?

Well, I think there's I don't know the answer to that.

Obviously.

I, I don't understand the psychology of people who would believe that getting, physically engaged in a violent way is going to have a positive outcome.

Obviously, that's not something, I subscribe to.

I think there's a lot of opportunities for people who are frustrated with their politics or their government to be involved and engaged in a way that's productive.

Besides that.

So I, I can't really tell you, the psychology of somebody who would want to get involved in that way.

And I think it is incumbent upon, all of us, to, to be more focused on policy and outcome and not on, you know, sort of what's politically expedient to get an outcome.

And that, I think is important to tone down the tenor of our politics.

Anyway.

I guess I'll offer a slightly different, maybe perhaps more nuanced sort of view of this.

I think, you know, part of what has changed and certainly after the 2020 election and the threats that were leveled against, especially our election workers.

And, you know, what happened there with so many people who had been doing this incredible service to help run our elections, who decided that, you know, the risk of doing that with receiving the threats that they were receiving was something that they pulled away from.

So I think one of the things that is certainly changed is that we've sort of normalized the kind of surveillance and hyper, sort of hyper, vigilance that we now have.

And so if we're not seeing as many acts of political violence today, perhaps part of the reason for that is that law enforcement is acting more quickly and more effectively with trying to prevent these things from happening by monitoring, monitoring social media.

We've certainly seen a coarsening of the language that's used by politicians at the political level, the willingness to threaten even members of the media and others who disagree with you.

We see a lot more of that from our political leaders, who we would hope would be the ones who would not do those kind of things and provide sort of a role model for how behavior should occur in the public.

But when you have leaders who do that, that becomes a problem.

I think social media has really created this interesting space where the anonymity allows you to say mean and nasty things and threaten people and do a lot of stuff.

Now that I think is really dangerous for our political system right now.

Professor Fung, I love nuance.

I love that Bilal just dug into it.

So I'd like you to dig even further if you can.

And this is what we're talking about with democracy.

We're talking about when people are concerned about democracy and threats to democracy.

I think a lot of it stems from what's happening online and people, I guess, at least being more, I want to say you said we're hyper vigilant as a result, but online people may be more bold and then we're actually seeing it come to fruition in person, as we just mentioned.

So could you just dig in a little bit there and see if there is that kind of valid concern?

For not just our own personal safety, but, democracy as well?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think the Democratic concern is that, in a healthy democracy, people can say what's on their minds and try to listen to other people and don't get censored and don't feel fear.

And, you know, the social media part and, the crudeness and, and some of the hostility on social media has been around for a while.

What's different now after the inauguration is that we have state actors, in the Trump administration in particular, in ice, punishing people for things that they've said.

And as far as we know, only said so.

I don't know how many people in the audience watched the video of, the, arrest and detainment of, those are nice words for what happened to roommates.

I asked her this, this, graduate student at Tufts University.

She's, languishing in a detention facility in Louisiana now.

And evidently all she did was write an op ed in the Tufts newspaper saying the administer the test administration should be more evenhanded in their treatment of protesters and their, and what the protesters wanted to see.

Right.

And I cannot think of anything more un-American than people in masks abducting another person on the streets of Boston for something that they wrote in a newspaper.

And then that has ramifications, like in, a lot of I hear that student editors in newspapers, they're getting all sorts of requests from, people who've written in before to scrub things that they've written because they're afraid that, thing bad, really bad things might happen to them for things that they've said.

Right.

And that is something very new.

We haven't seen that in many decades.

In the United.

We have a phone call.

This is going to be from Holly in Coventry.

She hasn't been to a protest yet, but I understand, maybe there's some interest.

Go ahead.

Holly.

Hi.

Yeah.

Good morning.

Frankie.

Yeah.

Good morning.

I haven't I haven't had the time, but I plan on going to.

And I have friends who go, I'm.

You know, I've been making calls.

I'm just very frustrated.

I'm.

I'm praying for the day that our military pulled him out of the white House.

You know, I've been making calls to all the senators on both sides of the aisle and just, you know, expressing my displeasure and my frustration.

What what's, what's one concern that you have, if you can.

Holly, is there a program that you're worried about?

Is there a piece of funding.

Something like that, worried about, you know, the the the stopping of the press, the, the colleges who are, you know, losing funding?

I you know, I applaud Yale, I mean, Harvard and MIT for, you know, standing up to him.

We're we're heading towards Nazi Germany.

I mean, it's scary.

I have relatives who voted for him and who are brainwashed and who watch Fox News.

And, you know, my mother in law is worried about men using the women's bathroom.

I mean, it's just scary how people pick up these little holly.

We're going to we're going to we're going to finish up in a moment.

But what do you think it would take for you to to attend a protest?

I'm going to one this Friday.

I have friends who go, so I am ready to go.

I just like the timing wasn't good for me, so I. I will be showing up and I have my yard signs out.

So.

Holly, thank you for calling in this morning.

I appreciate it.

You have a nice day.

Okay.

Liz, you heard that phone caller.

This phone caller is concerned about democracy, but they're also talking about freedom of the press, things like that.

What's your response?

Yeah, I mean, listen, I think that, from from my perspective, you know, we look at the, at the levers of government here, whether it's, state to federal or the branches of government at the federal level, you know, that are all functioning in the proper way.

We had an election below, like you talked about the difference between 2020 and 2024.

There's a, you know, there was a respect for the outcome of, of this election that we didn't see in, in 2020.

And, you know, we've got, Congress pushing back on the white House on things that they, don't agree with or that they or support where they do agree.

And, and the judicial branch is, is quite active, these days with, court decisions and injunctions and things like that, at the federal level that are trying to provide and making sure that the three branches of government operate separately, and provide those checks and balances.

And you've got state governments, particularly here in Connecticut, you know, that are actively working, particularly attorneys general across the country, that are invoking their opportunities and, and their rights to, participate in the process.

So I think we have to be careful, when we talk about threats to democracy, in my view, because democracy and the branches of government and the checks and balances are all are all working.

And I think, you know, one of the things that when you look back at the 2024 presidential election, the Democrats have not seemed to change their messaging, to this point.

And, and they're not talking about solutions.

They're still fighting the battle of the 2024 campaign.

And so I think, you know, that that you have to be part of the solution and offer, alternatives.

And I don't know that we're we're seeing a lot of that.

20s or less.

I gotta go to break.

It's so much to, to try to get in, you know, based on what Liz just said, I think in many ways, this sort of view of where the country is that I think that this administration has, you know, put itself on course or on track to really be an administration that will ignore decisions by the courts, an administration that will gut, vast, you know, parts of the federal government and, you know, jeopardize the health and safety of American citizens.

And, you know, a Congress that really has no interest in using its power to check the power of of the executive branch.

And so, I have a completely different view of where we're at right now as a country than Liz does.

From Connecticut Public Radio.

This is the wheelhouse.

I'm Frankie Graziano, that's Liz Kurantowicz with Bilal Sekou.

And we also have Archon Fung.

Very pleased to have, and privilege to have Archon Fung on professor of citizenship at the Harvard Kennedy School after the break.

How politicians are speaking out against the current administration or staying silent.

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This is the wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This hour we're talking about dissent in its many forms.

Why some Americans are speaking out against the Trump administration.

From everyday people to politicians.

Still with me.

Bilal Sekou, associate professor of politics and government at the University of Hartford.

Professor Archon Fung, professor of citizenship at the Harvard Kennedy School.

There's our Khan.

Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

And Liz Kurantowicz, it's Republican analyst and owner of the jewelry group.

Are your local politicians getting involved with speaking out?

Who are you hearing from or not hearing from?

Enough.

Would you like your politicians not to necessarily argue against the administration right now?

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Who are you hearing from that you would say are some of the loudest dissenters at this point?

Actually, my students really I you know, I find myself from time to time in class having discussions, obviously, about what's going on nationally in the country.

I'm teaching courses on urban politics this semester, and also, of course, on how to change the world.

And so, you know, what's interesting is to.

Hear this in seven weeks.

In seven weeks.

Exactly.

Yeah.

But it's interesting to hear the students reflect on some of the things they've seen.

I mean, I had a great conversation just the other night about, Garcia's situation being shipped to El Salvador illegally and and admittedly, a mistake, but the unwillingness to return him was something that the students were very passionate in their discussion about.

Obviously, in the urban politics class, students have wanted to talk a lot about cuts, potential cuts to education, the effect that that might have on things like early childhood programs and funding, especially in urban communities.

The impact, obviously, on higher ed with the Department of Education, shifting, having the sort of, student loan program and Pell Grant program moved to the Small Business Administration and the potential calamity that could present in the in the fall for many of our students at my university who are Pell Grant eligible, who would really be harmed and probably unable to return to college if something happens to that program because Frankie.

Graziano, former Pell Grant recipient.

And I'm one myself.

Yeah.

A couple of us, just, just, help me with, any kind of, politicians you're hearing from.

At least we know we're hearing a lot from Senator Chris Murphy, at least locally, Senator Richard Blumenthal.

But is there somebody in particular?

Maybe it's there, maybe.

Somebody else.

You're listening.

To.

You've named two of the people who are certainly leading the protest, AOC.

Bernie Sanders has been out there traveling the country, meeting all over the country.

Bernie was at Coachella.

And and out there on the on the road.

Certainly Cory Booker did a very high profile, filibuster the other day.

And so there are some who are out there.

But I think within the Democratic Party in general, there's a lot of consternation.

And concern about whether the party is putting up enough of a fight to what Trump is doing in office.

And so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

We've got midterm elections coming up.

I think that will be sort of a test of how just how popular the policies are.

But that can be a challenge because of the gerrymandering and the other sort of things that really prevent real competition in Congress.

You know, you mentioned, a filibuster, a high profile one.

I've got a clip of Cory Booker right here from the new Jersey Democratic senator.

And I'd like you to listen into this one, Professor Fung, because I'm going to have you respond to it.

Let's hear the clip first.

I can't allow this body to continue without doing something different.

Speaking out the threats to American people and American democracy are grave and urgent.

And we all must do more.

We all must do more.

Because I believe generations from.

Now will look back at this moment and have a single.

Question.

Where were.

You?

That was quite literally a marathon in descent.

Like something this guy had to, like, physically prepare for, Professor Fung.

So help me understand, why he was speaking out and at least why he had to kind of go through these lengths to do this.

Why take the 25 hour route here?

Yeah.

I think that, part of what Senator Booker did is try to innovate on what how political leaders can connect to the public in this moment.

And especially Democrats being in the minority.

So, you know, Chuck Schumer and other leaders a few months ago said, what do you want us to do?

We're in the minority.

We can't get any legislation.

That's just how Congress works.

And so then other leaders respond by, trying to, innovate and connect in different ways.

So, as Bilal said, AOC and Bernie are out there, you know, kind of barnstorming all across the country.

Cory Booker is on a platform, and conducts a filibuster, technically a filibuster for longer than Strom Thurmond did, breaking the Senate record.

And then Chris Van Hollen is actually today flying to El Salvador to see if he can check on the welfare of, Mr. Kilmer Abrego Garcia.

And so all of these activities are innovations to try to manifest to the American public what the problem is and connect with them in a more powerful way.

And it requires politicians to be much more creative.

They're used to doing campaigns and then to connect with the public and then used to legislating.

But then this moment calls for much more creativity than they've shown in some time.

Liz, this is kind of like physical communication.

It's kind of like physical distance.

So you got people like he said, flying to El Salvador.

You got Bernie Sanders showing up at Coachella.

Then you have Booker preparing for this, and he's talking about not drinking water or whatever to be able to do this.

So tell me about, something, from a communication standpoint, a strategy standpoint, something about that particular act and then what you might do if you were telling somebody, maybe a local candidate on how to counteract a message like that.

Well.

Listen, I think there's a couple things at play here.

And, and, you know, with respect to this idea that, members of Congress and in Washington get elected and then they go legislate.

I mean, the campaign cycle in Congress never ends.

And that is a direct result of McCain-Feingold and all of the changes in the way that we've become, politicized in this country.

And and, Bill, I think you would agree everything is about the almighty dollar in American politics.

And so, you know, I'm not looking to, impugn the integrity of elected officials, but I can honestly tell you a lot of what they're doing, is geared towards their 15 second clips that they can then use to monetize to raise money for their campaigns.

Chris Murphy, who has been one of the great champions of the anti-Trump movement, not just in Connecticut but around the country, raised a record breaking $9.2 million in and, I don't know if it was that a month or an entire quarter.

So don't quote me on the time frame.

But it was a huge sum of money, 85% of which were new donors, and the average contribution was $30.

I mean, this is all, you know, you have to be thinking about, intention for a lot of these things.

And their campaign cycle never ends.

And the more resources you have.

And by the way, I'm not sitting here saying that this is not a bipartisan issue.

These are things that happen on both sides of the aisle.

And we can all sit here and point out Republicans who are just as guilty of this as Democrats.

So this is certainly not a a Partizan issue.

But I do think you have to be thinking about that when you're watching, some of the performative politics that we're seeing on both sides of the aisle, how much of this is genuine and how much of this is about an opportunity to take the quick 15 second hit that you have and turn it into something that you can raise money off of, because as soon as you do that, you know, you've got a clip, you've got a video, it's getting texted out, it's getting emailed out.

And and all of the people listening, I would imagine, have been on the receiving end of those things.

So we're going to have to be thoughtful about that.

We're going to have another caller join us right now.

This is going to be, before I do that, I should say that, Cory Booker's, talk at Washington was actually a speech, not technically a filibuster, but, let's go to Jim from Bridgeport, who's going to share, some perspective for us.

Go ahead.

Jim.

All right.

Yes.

Hi there.

Yeah.

Chris Murphy is, a hero of mine.

For what?

He's, the stand he's taken, but more specifically, I attended the Washington March on April 5th.

Because, here we are in a wonderful, blue state of Connecticut.

But, we are probably perceived as a blue state and, not making headlines like this, but I wanted to really get to the core and march in Washington.

And it was very, profound marching from the capital up to Washington Monument.

You know, there were maybe 10,000, maybe 20,000 people and an awful lot of great heroes like myself who, a little disappointed in there weren't so many younger people.

But, you know, it's a start.

And I think that, people, people my age know that.

I mean, we were very effective in, in stopping the Vietnam War by, by public outcry and the, the mobilization that way.

And that's what it requires.

Now, the same kind of, oh.

Consider this.

Yesterday in Georgia, Marjorie Taylor Greene rally, there's two protesters who were tased for, speaking out against, Marjorie Taylor Greene.

I mean, this is this is, frightening and not right where we are in America.

And we, our legacy is being able to protest and not being afraid.

Jim, I appreciate your perspective.

Thank you so much for sharing it this morning.

You take care.

You have a good day.

Got it?

You got it.

Oh, he's talking about, the Vietnam War there and protest being very effective at least in terms of counteracting, the war that we had, overseas.

So, what are your thoughts on on Jim's message?

You know.

One of the things I really liked about what Jim said was he talked about how this is our legacy.

I mean, the country was birthed in an act of dissent, right?

When you think about it, we are coming up on an anniversary for the declaration of Independence next year, which will, I think, in many ways, give us a really great moment to look back at the history of our country, to see what progress we've made and what progress we still need to make.

I would argue that we are seeing a kind of unraveling over the last 60 years, which will give us a reason to reflect next year about where we're at as a country and where we're headed.

Dissent is built into the very first Amendment of the Constitution.

This idea that being able to go to your government and seek redress against even perceived wrongs, whether they're real or not, but if you perceive them to be wrongs, you have the right to do that.

We enter into a scary place when we try to, suppress that dissent, when we try to make the case that there are certain kinds of views or opinions that will not be acceptable to express, in the public sphere, because I think we should have the right to denounce those views if we object to.

But is that freedom to express those ideas that is so essential to the country?

And so I, I love, you know, people being out on the streets, even in times where I didn't like the message that people were out in the streets for, I still defend the right to be out there.

And I think that is essential to a democracy.

And when we lose that, when we try to censor people, when we try to, you know, in the the opportunity for the media to, look at what government is doing and make it more transparent when we try to silence voices that we even find objectionable, I think becomes a problem for democracy.

That's Professor Bilal Sekou from the University of Hartford, also on the line, Professor Archon Fung, from Harvard University.

And Liz Carrano, it's our guests are with us for the hour after the break.

How are universities in Connecticut and across the country are responding to President Trump's directive?

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We're going to hear soon from our great friends at Connecticut Public.

This hour, a look at how dissent is playing out on the ground in Connecticut, the legislature, and inside institutions like universities.

This is the wheelhouse for Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

Still with me, Professor Archon Fung, professor Belal Sekou and Liz Khurana.

Watts, thank you so much for joining us.

Folks, are you seeing dissent unfold on your campus?

If you're a college student or maybe you live in a college town, you can join the conversation eight at 87209677(888) 720-9677.

I'm privileged to have Archon Fung on because Harvard University is all over the news right now.

But just I just want some perspective here.

And what I'm going to ask you is that President Trump recently withdrew $400 million in federal grants and contracts from Columbia University.

In a statement, the administration said that the decision was carried out, quote, due to the school's continued inaction in the face of persistent harassment of Jewish students.

And earlier this week, the Trump administration froze $2 billion in federal funding from Harvard University, where you were refused to comply with the government's demands to report international students for on campus conduct.

Have we ever seen a president, retaliate against a university like this before?

No, not quite in this form.

I mean, students were shot at Kent State, and they actually died, in protest against the Vietnam War.

So that was, you know, one kind of encroachment, but this is far more widespread.

And it's using the financial leverage of the federal government and what I believe is unconstitutional ways because it's First Amendment retaliation.

And it is, it is part of a political campaign that has, I think, two components.

Right.

One, and Chris Rufo, the conservative activist, is very articulate about this is, destroying universities as, center of, political thought that he regards as too progressive.

And on the left.

And then I think part and parcel of the current, wave of executive orders and other actions against those law firms and media and universities is the, desire to, really restrict and punish, points of view that are different from, the administration's points of view.

And so I think both of those things are going on.

And that's why I think this is unconstitutional as a First Amendment retaliation, among other things.

Elizabeth from Medford, New York, is going to join the conversation right now.

This is a caller.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Elizabeth.

I understand that you're in to grassroots protesting.

Well, I'm I have not personally protested, but I'm going to start Saturday.

The one thing that I was going to bring up is that protest do work.

Look at the Tea Party that started out as a small group.

They started out as protesting, and they got louder and louder and more and into everything.

Which sort of followed the timeline of where the Republican Party is now.

So we need to take a page that and, the civil rights movement in the 1960s, the Vietnam War protest, were effective.

And I do disagree that, democracy is hand standing up there.

Checks and balances are standing up.

The Congress is remaining silent.

Well, Trump, with all his actions, is acting as a king, and he has no he has immunity to do whatever he wants.

Elizabeth, thank you so much for calling this morning.

I appreciate it.

And, I'll say that Elizabeth sounds like a first time protester at least, maybe during this iteration.

And then you heard earlier from a caller that said that they're going out this Friday.

So the administration seems to be activating something from these people below.

Which is really interesting.

I think, again, you know, one of the things about American politics, we know roughly about 40% or so of the people who are eligible to vote actually don't vote.

When we go down from just voting to other ways of being politically engaged, such as participating in demonstrations of protest, we're talking about a very small percentage of the population that actually do those kind of things.

I would argue that all of those things are essential to a healthy democracy.

People, you know, showing up at these meetings and talking to their elected officials, expressing, you know, their views about various public policies and things they'd like to see done making phone calls, to political offices, you know, actually writing letters to the editor of newspaper, calling me on on shows like The Wheel House.

I mean, all of these things to me, you know, essential for a healthy and a thriving democracy.

So I'm, I'm happy to hear someone, you know, talk the way she is talking about actually going out to her very first protest.

The other thing I'll say, you know, really quickly is that we're at a really interesting moment also for the Democratic Party, because, you know, her comment about the Tea Party made me also think about one of the things that happened was you saw challenges within the Republican Party from the right on centrist candidates all across the country.

So it'll be interesting to see if the Democrats have a similar sort of situation where people who come from the left start to challenge some of the centrists because they feel like they're not responding as forcefully and as strongly and courageously, at this moment.

So, I think the Democratic Party itself may be, you know, headed towards its own kind of crisis of leadership, a lot of leadership is really old.

You know, King Jefferson is relatively young.

But when you look at the Senate as a body in the House, there's a real generational problem there.

So many phone calls this morning.

I wish we can get to all of them.

Thank you so much to all of those, that are calling.

We're going to round the corner on the show.

We only got a couple more minutes left.

I want to bring the conversation full circle.

Is really quickly.

What role does dissent play in a healthy democracy in your thoughts?

Look, I couldn't agree more below.

I think it's so important that we have dissent as a Republican in the state of Connecticut.

That is entirely run by one party.

I, I think it is incredibly critical that we have a healthy and vibrant dissent, whether that's here in the state of Connecticut at your local level, or at the, national federal level.

And, and so, you know, I think we need to continue to engage, and we need to continue to hear voices from all over the country and, you know, let people have their their say.

And I think you did see that in the outcome of the 2024 election.

That was a dissent.

That was the country saying, we don't like the direction we're going in and we want to go in a different direction.

And I think you have to look at it that way, too.

I mean, that those that is people exercising their constitutional rights, and we need to be protecting that in every possible way.

So dissent on.

Professor, Professor Fung, you get the last minute or so here on the show.

What do you think political dissent is going to play in the next elections?

We just talk about 2024.

But in 2026 and 2028.

So I think dissent, in American history is not only right, but has been the engine of progress from getting women to vote to abolishing slavery to, the civil rights movement, to, a campus movement against apartheid in South Africa.

And so I think, dissent will continue in 2026 and 2028.

In response to all of the things that are happening from the administration and provides, a great public that tries to figure these things out, that I agree with Bilal and Liz, it remains open to see whether democratic capital, Democratic leaders will connect with all of the people that have been calling and going to the protests, whether they'll connect successfully.

So I'd be looking for that.

And then a second thing I'd be looking for is how much repression there is of that dissent.

I mean, we know in the George Floyd protests, President Trump very, very much wanted to invoke the Insurrection Act and deploy military against protesters.

He was stopped by, senior level staff that said, that's a bad idea.

I think people with that orientation in his team are no longer there.

So I would be also looking out for the administration's response to dissent as an important question in the future.

Thank you so much.

Archon Fung, Liz Kurantowicz, it's and Belal Sekou, all of our guests that came on the wheelhouse this morning.

Today's show, produced by Chloe Wynn, Rob and Dorian Aiken edited the show.

And Meg Dalton, thank you so much for your service to the wheelhouse in the first two years here in getting the program off the ground, Dylan Reyes, our technical producer.

Download The Wheelhouse anytime on your favorite podcast app.

I'm Frankie Graziano, this is the wheelhouse.

Thank you for listening.

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