>> CROSSLEY: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT, PUBLIC ART MURALS.

FROM ROXBURY AND WORCESTER TO SALEM AND BOSTON, ARTISTS OF COLOR ARE USING MURALS, AN ANCIENT FORM OF ARTWORK, TO PAINT DIRECTLY ONTO WALLS AND BUILDINGS.

RECENTLY, THERE'S BEEN A NATIONAL RESURGENCE OF INTEREST IN THIS KIND OF PUBLIC ART; AMERICAN MODERN MURALS GROUNDED IN THE 1980'S AND '90'S STREET GRAFFITI CREATED BY BLACK ARTISTS LIKE JEAN MICHEL BASQUIAT.

TODAY BOSTON IS BECOMING SOMETHING OF A MECCA FOR LOCAL AND NATIONAL MURALISTS OF COLOR.

AND WHILE THEY WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISPLAY THEIR TALENTS, THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW TO PRESERVE THEIR WORK, AND HOW TO PREVENT THEIR PIECES FROM BECOMING A TOOL TO GENTRIFY THE COMMUNITIES WHERE PEOPLE OF COLOR LIVE.

JOINING US THIS EVENING: SILVIA LOÓPEZ CHAVEZ, MURALIST AND ARTIST-IN-RESIDENCE AT MASS MOCA.

SHE HAS ALSO RECEIVED COMMISSIONS NATIONALLY AND INTERNATIONALLY.

LOCAL COMMISSIONS INCLUDE SEAWALLS BOSTON, MIT, HARVARD AND NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY.

ROB "PRO-BLAK" GIBBS, MURALIST, CO-FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF ARTIST FELLOWSHIPS, ARTISTS FOR HUMANITY.

AND MARQUIS VICTOR, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ELEVATED THOUGHT.

THE LAWRENCE BASED ART AND SOCIAL JUSTICE ORGANIZATION DEVELOPS SPACES FOR BLACK INDIGENOUS YOUNG PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES TO ENGAGE AND UNDERSTAND ART AS A LIBERATING POWER.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

>> HOW'S IT GOING?

THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> Crossley: SO HERE'S WHAT I'VE LEARNED FROM WHAT YOU TOLD OUR PRODUCERS IN OUR SEARCH THAT I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT OF MURALS AS KIND OF A SLOLO ENTERPRISE -- YOU GET THE WALL, YOU GET THE BUILDING, AND YOU DO THE WORK.

BUT EACH OF YOU HAVE STRESSED THAT IT REALLY IS ABOUT, FIRST, GROUNDING YOURSELF IN THE COMMUNITY TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO BUILD THE PIECE, TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE AREA NEEDS, ALL OF THAT.

SO I WOULD LIKE YOU TO TALK ABOUT MURALS AS COMMUNITY CONNECTED.

I'LL START WITH YOU, ROB.

>> THAT'S AN AMAZING QUESTION, AND THANK YOU FOR ASKING.

MURALS CONNECTING COMMUNITIES, IT'S A DIRECT REFLECTION OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE AND IT'S OUR WAY TO TRANSLATE EVERYDAY OPERATION AND JUST AN ARTISTIC FORM THAT IF THERE'S A PERSON WHO KNOWS WHERE THEY'RE AT, WHAT THINGS ARE GOING ON AND HOW THEY FEEL, SOME OF THESE THINGS CAN BE REFLECTED IN THE MURALS.

I HAVE BEEN RECENTLY JUST SAYING THAT WE'VE ALL HAD A MAGIC TRICK TO JUST TURN MURALS INTO MIRRORS AND PEOPLE SEE THEMSELVES IN IT.

SO THAT'S LIKE THE DIRECT CONNECTION TO HOW WE SPEAK VISUALLY.

>> Crossley: SO, SYLVIA, YOU SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, YOUR WORK HAS SHIFTED OVER TIME TO INCLUDE THIS SOCIAL JUSTICE ELEMENT AND, IN DOING THAT, THAT'S HOW YOU GOT TO THE COMMUNITY BASE AND INTERCHANGED WITH THE COMMUNITIES AS YOU BEGAN TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD PAINT YOUR MURALS.

>> YES, I COME OUT FROM THE STUDIO INTO THE WORLD AND THE STREET ART SCENE, AND IT'S THROUGH COMMUNITY.

IT'S FIRST FACILITATING THE FASTERS WHO TRIED TO CREATE THE PIECES, BUT BEING ABLE TO, FOR ME, CONNECT TO THAT COMMUNITY, WHETHER IT'S MY IMMEDIATE COMMUNITY WHERE I LIVE AND WORK, BUT ALSO WHERE THE WALL MAY BE.

IT'S SO MUCH I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT COMMUNITY TO CONNECT WITH THEM BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES, IF YOU DON'T, THEN THERE'S THIS LACK OF OWNERSHIP FROM THAT SPACE.

IN ART, IN THE PUBLIC RECOMMEND, HAS SUCH A POWERFUL WAY TO HELP PEOPLE CONNECT IN THAT FORM, AND PEOPLE SEE THEMSELVES, AS ROB WAS SAYING EARLIER, IN THIS IMAGERY AND MURALS AND BEING ABLE TO REFLECT THAT BACK AND FEEL THAT THEY ARE AS MUCH PART OF THE ART AS THE ARTISTS WHO CREATED IT.

IT'S VERY POWERFUL AND IMPORTANT THEY FEEL IT BELONGS TO THEM AND THAT MURAL IS ACTUALLY IN THIS PARTICULAR PLACE AND DOES NOT LIVE ANYWHERE ELSE, IT BELONGS IN THAT SPACE.

>> Crossley: ABOUT WHAT THE FRENCH SAY ABOUT WINE, WHERE YOU ARE REFLECTS IT.

SO, ELEVATED THOUGHT.

YOU ARE IN THE COMMUNITY.

THE WHOLE THOUGHT IS ELEVATE THE WORK AND BUILD THE COMMUNITY, REALLY.

SO TALK TO US ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF MURALS AS COMMUNITY REFLECTION AND CONNECTEDNESS.

>> MURALS IS A MAJOR ASPECT OF IT.

IT INCOME PASSES THE ENTIRETY OF PUBLIC ART FOR US, PHOTO, VIDEO, BUT, YOU KNOW, BUT PEOPLE WHO COLOR THEIR HISTORIES, WE HAVE TO RETROACTIVELY GO BACK AND DIG AND UNDERSTAND WHAT CAME BEFORE US.

SO FOR US, PUBLIC ART IS A WAY TO CAPTURE THE STORIES IN A MOMENT AND ALSO ARCHIVE HISTORY, RIGHT.

WE'RE AMPLIFYING WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, AMPLIFYING OUR EXISTENCE AND PUSHING FORTH HOW WE WANT THE COMMUNITY TO EVOLVE AND PROGRESS, AND THAT REALLY STEMS FROM COMMUNITY VOICE, BECAUSE HOW ELSE CAN PROGRESS HAPPEN IN A HOLISTIC WAY IF THE PEOPLE IN THAT AREA ARE CONTRIBUTING TO IT.

THAT'S HOW WE FRAME OR PUBLIC ARTWORK.

>> Crossley: ROB, AS A HIP-HOP ARTIST, YOU SAY YOU BRING THAT TO YOUR WORK.

WHAT DOES THAT GIVE YOU, THAT HISTORY OF BEING A HIP-HOP ARTIST, AS YOU BEGIN TO VISUALIZE WHAT YOU THINK YOUR PARTICULAR MURAL WOULD BE?

>> THE HISTORY BRINGS THE ART OF STORYTELLING AND JUST TAKING THE RESPONSIBILITY TO TRAVEL INTO THE FOURTH DIMENSION, WHICH IS THINGS THAT WE'VE KNOWN GRILLOS TO DO AND BEING ABLE TO CAPTURE SOMETHING YOU'VE HEARD, MAY BE IN A LYRIC, AND BRING THAT TO LARGER SURFACES, COULD BRING THAT TO LIGHT.

THERE'S A RESPONSIBILITY TO TRANSLATE THAT ENERGY AND I THINK HIP-HOP IS ABOUT TO BE 50 YEARS OLD NEXT YEAR, AND MY ORIGINS IS ONE OF THE DISCIPLINES, WHICH IS GRAFFITI, SO THE ABILITY TO PUT UP SOMETHING LARGE SCALE USING A TOOL THAT'S MANIPULATED, THE SPRAY CAN, IT JUST HAS THAT NEW FEEL, THAT NEW FRESH, LIKE, AND IT'S EVERYWHERE, IT'S INTERNATIONAL.

SO, LIKE, WE'RE CONTRIBUTING TO THAT INTERNATIONAL VOICE AND PLATFORM THROUGH A CULTURE RECOGNIZED WORLDWIDE.

SO I FEEL LIKE THAT'S WHERE THE SUPERPOWERS LAY, THAT'S WHERE EVERYBODY FINDS THE ABILITY TO VOCALIZE THEMSELVES AND THAT ABOUT TO STORY TELL LIES DEEP WITHIN THE CULTURE.

>> Crossley: SO, SYLVIA, YOU WERE A FINE ARTIST IS WHAT PEOPLE WOULD DESCRIBE AS SUCH AND YOU CAME OUTSIDE TO DO THIS WORK, HOW DOES THAT BACKGROUND INFORM YOUR STYLE AND HOW YOU TELL STORIES, AS ROB HAS SAID?

>> YEAH, SO I'M NOT A GRAFFITI ARTIST.

I HAVE SUCH RESPECT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PAVED THE WAY FOR ARTISTS LIKE ME WHO ARE COMING FROM A MORE STUDIO PRACTICE INTO A SOCIAL PRACTICE, WHICH IS HOW I SEE MY WORK DOING MURALS, WHERE IN THE STUDIO YOU'RE VERY MUCH DOING YOUR WORK IN ISOLATION IN SOME LEVEL.

AND WHEN YOU'RE OUT ON THE STREETS AND WORKING MURALS, IT'S A COLLABORATIVE WORK.

IT'S ALWAYS INVOLVING OTHERS.

AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE WORK BE SO MUCH LARGER THAN WHAT YOU WOULD DO ON YOUR OWN AND THAT IS POWERFUL.

SO NOT ONLY COMMUNITY BUT COLLABORATION IN THE SENSE OF THAT.

AND IT INFLUENCES BOTH WAYS BECAUSE, IN MY SENSE AS A FINE ARTIST, I'M ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT THE LASTING EFFECTS OF A PIECE, LIKE HOW CAN YOU MAKE SOMETHING LAST FOR SO MANY YEARS AS OTHER ARTISTS IN THE PAST HAVE DONE AND THE MATERIALS THEY USE.

AND WHEN YOU'RE ON THE STREET, YOU'RE CREATING WORK THAT IS A LOT OF TIMES EVE EVE -- EPHEMERAL TO SOME EXTENT SO YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THE IMPACT YOU WILL HAVE IN THE MOMENT AND ALSO HOW IT WILL IMPACT PEOPLE IN VARIOUS FORMS AND, AT THE SAME TIME, IT WILL HAVE A HISTORY AND SOMEONE ELSE WILL TAKE OVER AND COME AND BRING THEIR OWN VOICE INTO IT, AS WELL, AND BEING ABLE TO WORK WITH BOTH THE ASPECTS OF BEING -- WORKING IN THE SPACE WHERE YOU'RE NOT ONLY ON YOUR OWN BUT ALSO BEING ABLE TO BRING ALL OF THOSE TOOLS AS AN ILLUSTRATOR, WHICH I'M TRAINED TO DO SO, AND REALLY HELPS ME THINK ABOUT HOW DO YOU TRANSLATE A SMALL SCALE INTO A LARGE SCALE.

HOW DO YOU GO FROM A SMALL PIECE TO BEING ABLE TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, 60 FEET HIGH AND 80 FEET LONG WALL AND HAS A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE WHEN PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE ART WORK AND EXPERIENCE AT A DISTANCE, WHETHER IT'S FAR AWAY FROM A HIGHWAY OR CLOSER.

AND, SO, I THINK THAT THE RELATIONSHIP IS QUITE DIFFERENT, AND I LOVE, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE ACCESSIBILITY THAT ALLOWS FOR THE ART.

I THINK THAT THE PROBLEM I SEE WITH A LOT OF THE ART THAT IS INDOORS, WHETHER IT'S IN THE GALLERY, MUSEUM, IS THE ACCESS, RIGHT.

AND AS A PERSON OF COLOR, GROWING UP IN A COUNTRY THAT THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A LOT OF TIMES -- IT'S NEVER LIKE A PRIORITY.

YOU HAVE OTHER PRIORITIES.

AND HERE, ALSO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SPEND YOUR MONEY ON A FEE, RIGHT, TO ENTER.

SO HAVING ACCESS TO ART IS SUPER IMPORTANT.

THIS IS WHAT ALSO HAS FUELED MY PASSION FOR BEING ABLE TO CONTINUE TO MAKE MURALS.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

NOW, WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT ELEVATED THOUGHT, MARQUIS, IS YOU'VE GOT THE HISTORY BUT YOU'RE COMING DIFFERENTLY AND YOU'VE ALREADY MENTIONED THERE ARE DIFFERENT TILES YOU USE.

SO TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT.

HOW IS THAT BEING EXPRESSED, YOU KNOW, BY VIRTUE YOU AND MOST OF YOUR PEOPLE ARE A DIFFERENT GENERATION.

>> YEAH, THE OVERWHELMINGLY MAJORITY, YEAH, 26, IS OLDER/YOUNGER.

I THINK THE MAJOR ASPECT OF IT IS CREATING A SPACE WHERE CREATIVE PATHWAYS CAN BE A SUSTAINABLE AND PULLING FILLING CAREER -- FULFILLING CAREER.

YOU LOOK AT LAWRENCE, A LARGELY IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY, TRADITIONAL, AND IN MANY WAYS WHERE YOU'VE GOT FIRST GENERATIONAL YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING UP AND ARE CREATIVES, BUT AT HOME THEY'RE, LIKE, WHAT?

YOU'RE TRYING TO BE AN ARTIST?

THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

PUT THAT ASIDE, LIKE, YOU CAN DO THAT ON THE WEEKENDS TYPE OF DEAL.

BUT AS WE'VE GROWN AS AN ORGANIZATION, IT'S BEEN -- YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY, LIKE, PUTTING OURSELVES OUT THERE THROUGH OUR WORK AND BEING, LIKE, HEY, THIS IS BY YOU FOR YOU AND YOU CAN BE A PART OF THIS, AND MAYBE YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY A STAFF, MAYBE YOU'RE A COLLABORATING ARTIST, BUT, YOU KNOW,S IT'S BEEN REALLY INTENTIONAL CREATING THESE SUSTAINABLE PATHWAYS FOR PEOPLE TO COME UP IN OUR PROGRAM.

WHAT'S NEXT?

YOU CAN BE A COLLABORATING ARTIST.

NEXT, A TEACHING ARTIST.

NEXT, A LEADERSHIP POSITION IN AN ORGANIZATION AND AT A YOUNG AGE YOU'RE SETTING A TANGIBLE EXAMPLE OF HOW CREATIVEY CAN GO IN YOUR LIFE IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT A YOUNG PERSON LOOKING AT THE FOLKS WORKING IN ET.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD AN ECOSYSTEM AND CREATE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT, YES, THIS IS POWERFUL, NECESSARY, AND IT CAN BE LEV RAJTSD FOR A CAREER.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE NITTY GRITTY STUFF BECAUSE PEOPLE LISTEN TO THIS CONVERSATION AND SAY HOW DO YOU GET TO DO A MURAL?

YOU JUST CAN'T WALK AROUND AND PAINT OG PEOPLE'S BUILDINGS AND STUFF.

SO THERE ARE CITY-BASED PROGRAMS, PRIVATELY COMMISSIONS AS WE'VE MENTIONED, AND ALL OF YOU IN SOME WAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF HOW THE MURALS COME TO BE BECAUSE THERE'S OBVIOUSLY HER MISSIONS AND ALL OF THAT.

SO I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING THAT CITY, THAT STATE FUNDING, THAT SUPPORT OF ARTISTS FOR THIS KIND OF ART AND YOUR CONCERN, ROB, THAT AS GORGEOUS AS IT IS, AS ACCESSIBLE AS IT IS, SYLVIA, AS POWERFUL AS IT IS, MARQUIS, SO OFTEN, IT'S TEMPORARY AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?

EXPLAIN TO ME ABOUT THE TEMPORARY ANXIETY YOU HAVE ABOUT IT, AS WELL YOU SHOULD.

>> RIGHT.

THE TEMPORARY ASPECT LOSES VALUE.

YOU'RE NOT BEING BROUGHT IN AT VALUE, KNOWING THAT YOU HAVE AN ABOUT TO HAVE A LONG-LASTING IMPACT.

IF YOU'RE BROUGHT IN TEMPORARY, YOU MIGHT AS WELL WORK FOR AN AD AGENCY AND DO BILLBOARDS.

THAT'S THE CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER THAT ARTISTS WOULD NATURALLY PROBABLY HAVE FROM THAT SITUATION.

BUT THE POSITIVE SIDE OF IT IS YOU HAVE A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME TO MAKE A BIG IMPACT AND CHANGE THAT NARRATIVE.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF TEMPORARY THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TRADITIONALLY THAT ALL THREE OF US ARE CHANGING THAT TEMPORARY TO BE PERMANENT.

WE ARE SHOWING AN INTEREST IN IT, LASTING LONGER THAN THE TIME GIVEN, THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE THAT THE WORK REFLECTS, RAISES THE QUESTION WHY IS THIS COMING DOWN, HOW AND WHERE COULD WE GET MORE OF A PERMANENCE, AND THAT TYPE OF ACTIVITY.

AND JUST, YOU KNOW, TAKING A CITY THAT'S JUST BEEN TRADITIONAL IN A LOT OF WAYS AND JUST SHAKING IT UP A BIT SO WE CAN GET WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD, THE REST OF THE NATION TO HAVE REPRESENTATION AND A CULTURE PRESERVED BECAUSE THESE ARE DOCUMENTS OF WHO'S IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHO'S AROUND, HOW OUR CITY IS JUST EVEN EXPRESSED AND REPRESENTED OR SETTING A BAR FOR WHEN PEOPLE DO COME COME IN FROM OTHER PLACES TO EXPLORE AND SHARE, THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO STEP TO.

SO THE TEMPORARY ASPECTS SHOULD JUST GET A LOT LIGHTER IN CONVERSATION BECAUSE WE'RE PROVING NOW THAT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE LONG-LASTING JONG JEFT AND PERMANENCE.

>> Crossley: YOU WANT YOU TO SPEAK TO TEMPORARY PERMANENTS, SYLVIA.

YOU SAID THE CITY SHOULD FUND THIS ART AS IT DOES SCULPTURES.

THAT MAKES YOU THINK ABOUT IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY AS YOU'VE SAID THAT.

>> OF COURSE, AND A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH HOW DO YOU PLAN FOR THIS AND THINK OF IT TO MAKE IT BE PERMANENT?

WHEN YOU'RE THINKING OF MATERIALS, FOR EXAMPLE, OR HOW YOU PREP A WALL FOR THAT TO BE REALLY WELL DONE SO IT ACTUALLY STAYS THERE FOR A VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME, IF THAT'S WHAT'S DESIRED.

BUT A LOT OF WHAT ROB IS SAYING, WHICH I AGREE, IS THIS IDEA OF LEAVING A PLACE TO HISTORIC AND PRESERVED, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN GIVEN PREFERENCE TO OLD HISTORIC FIGURES IN THE PAST IN BRONZE SCULPTURES.

WHAT ABOUT US WHO ARE HERE TODAY, WHAT ABOUT THE CONTEMPORARY NATURE OF REFLECTING WHO WE ARE NOW AND WHO IS HERE NOW.

AND, SO, BEING ABLE TO THINK ABOUT NOT ONLY PROMINENT LOCATIONS WHERE PEOPLE CAN SEE THEMSELVES IN THIS SPACE AND MAKING SURE THAT THE MATERIALS AND THE THINGS UTILIZED ARE MEANT TO BE ON THAT MORE PERMANENT NATURE, I THINK IT'S CRUCIAL, INCLUDING EVEN THINKING ABOUT BUDGETS, YOU KNOW, THE CITY BUDGETS, LIKE THE CITY HAS THE ABILITY AND HAS BEEN KEEPING UP WITH A LOT OF THE ARTWORK THAT HAS BEEN HERE SO MANY YEARS.

SO MAINTAINING IT, AND IT'S A PROGRAM THAT SHOULD BE PART OF MURALS, SHOULD BE PART OF ANY KIND OF BUDGETING THAT HAPPENS WITHIN THE CITY.

>> Crossley: DON'T JUST PAY FOR IT TO GO UP UP BUT TO STAY THERE.

>> TO STAY THERE AND MAINTAIN IT.

A GOOD EXAMPLE, MY FIRST MURAL IN BOSTON CURIATED AND PRODUCED BY NOW AND THERE WHO HAS BEEN DOING CONTEMPORARY WORKS TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING ART IN THE SPHERE OF THE PUBLIC REM, REALM, AND THAT PIECE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE UP FOR ONE YEAR.

WE WERE ASKED TO PUT A COATING ON THE PAINTING SO IT COULD EASILY BE TAKEN DOWN AS A STICKER.

PEOPLE POSITIONED FOR IT TO NOT COME DOWN.

IT'S IN IT'S FOURTH YEAR.

THEY HAVE BEEN MAINTAINING IT SO IF THERE'S ANY PEELING BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS MEANT TO BE TEMPORARY IN NATURE, NOW I HAVE BEEN GOING BACK WITH A TEAM OF PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY RESTORE IT EVERY YEAR.

AND I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD TESTAMENT OF HOW READY WE ARE FOR HAVING MORE ART IN THE CITY THAT IS THERE TO STAY, THAT IS NOT SIMPLY TEMPORARY FOR WHATEVER REASON BUT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING AND IS THERE TO REFLECT WHO WE ARE NOW AND ON A PERMANENT LEVEL.

>> Crossley: MARQUIS WOULD YOU SAY THE PRESERVATION OF THE MURALS WE'VE ESTABLISHED ARE A REFLECTION OF COMMUNITIES IS REALLY A SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUE?

>> YES, AND PRESERVATION COMES IN DIFFERENT FORMS, I LOVE HOW YOU MENTION THE CONTINUOUS CARE OF IT AND THE INVESTMENT IN THAT WAY.

BUT, ALSO, I THINK THERE ARE MECHANISMS IN WHICH TO PRESERVE IT IN AN ARCHIVAL SENSE, TOO, AND, ALSO, TO BROAD -- TO PROD CAST ITS PRESENCE AND PURPOSE IN DIFFERENT WAYS THROUGH COMMUNITY CONVERSATIONS, ARTISTS TALKS LIKE FIELD TRIPS, SCHOOLS THERE, HAVING KIDS CREATE, YOU KNOW, CHILLING BY A MURAL AND SKETCHING IN THEIR NOTEBOOKS, BEING INSPIRED BY WHAT THEY'RE SEEING.

SO CREATIVITY BEGETS CREATIVITY AND PRESERVATION IS PART OF THAT PROCESS AND PRESERVATION IS INEXTRICABLY LINKED TO EXPOSURE.

SO HOW DO WE IN THAT PROCESS HAVE EXPOSURE TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE AND HOW THAT PERCENT VIOLATION EXISTS IN DIFFERENT FORMS.

>> Crossley: ILL I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS IN RELATIONSHIP TO MURALS WHICH IS ABOUT THE USE OF THIS ART AS A WAY TO GENTRIFY NEIGHBORHOODS.

I'LL JUST READ SOMETHING FROM ASHLEY GANNAM, A MARKETING AND SPECIAL EVENTS MANAGER FOR THE NORTH SHORE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, AND SHE SAYS ART GOES UP, BREWERIES GO INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, HOUSING PRICES GO UP, PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THOSE COMMUNITIES CAN NO LONGER AFFORD THOSE.

ROB, WOULD YOU RESPOND?

>> MY RESPONSE IS IT'S UNFORTUNATE, WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEBODY PROBABLY HANGING WITH YOU THE WHOLE TIME YOU WERE PRODUCING THE MURAL THAT LIVES IN THE CAPITOL BUILDING THAT YOU WAS PAINTING ON CAN NO LONGER LIVE THERE BECAUSE YOUR WORK BROUGHT UP THE PROPERTY VALUE, OR THE DEVELOPER THOUGHT IT WAS A NICE WAY TO PUT A COLORFUL BAND-AID OVER ACTUALLY REAPPOINTING THE WALL AND MAKING IT A SOUND STRUCTURE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.

WE NEED TO, AS ARTISTS, TO MAKE SURE WE'RE INVESTED TO TALK ABOUT THE LONGEVITY AND THE PIGGY BACK IS TO PUT THAT CONVERSATION ON THE TABLE AND BE, LIKE, HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO LAST AND WHAT TYPE OF SPACE ARE WE CONTRIBUTING TOWARDS?

BECAUSE IT'S THAT CONTRIBUTION THAT YOUR AWARENESS WILL GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO SAY YES OR NO, AND TO BE THAT CONSCIENCE ISN'T ALWAYS LIKE THE FOREFRONT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE EAGER TO GET THE IDEA OUT THERE OR IT'S ALWAYS THE UNDERLYING CONVERSATION.

SO I FEEL LIKE WE JUST GOT TO KNOW WHAT WE'RE GETTING INTO.

I THINK OUR EXPERIENCES ARE BRINGING US TO THAT POINT THAT WE CAN START TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN THAT, AND, FROM THAT POINT, WE HAVE A LOT OF GREEN SPACES WE HAVE BEEN ACTIVATING TO THE LIGHT, TO THE LETTER.

I JUST KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO BE A LITTLE MORE AFOREFRONT ABOUT WHAT THE ASK IS AND JUST KNOW THAT NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS OVERNIGHT.

BUT THAT TYPE OF DISPLACEMENT AND GENTRIFICATION DOESN'T REALLY MERIT THE IDEAL OF PUTTING UP A MURAL.

>> Crossley: SYLVIA, SO WHEN THAT HAPPENS, IT'S OUT OF BALANCE.

YOU DID THE WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY IN THE SPACE.

>> RIGHT.

>> Crossley: SO, NOW, THAT'S COMPLETELY OPPOSITE OF NOT ONLY THE INTENT BUT HOW THE WORK REFLECTS WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS, RIGHT?

>> I AGREE, AND I THINK THAT, A LOT OF TIMES, IT'S UNFORTUNATE HAT THE MURALS ARE BEING UTILIZED AS A FORM OF DISPLACEMENT, OF MAKING A PLACE CHANGE SO DRAMATICALLY THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN THERE FOR SUCH A LONG PERIOD OF TIME HAVE TO MOVE BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD IT NO LONGER.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S -- YOU KNOW, TO ME, AS AN ARTIST, IT'S SUCH A CHALLENGE BECAUSE I FEEL PUBLIC ART AND MURALS, IN PARTICULAR, HAVE SUCH A STRONG FORCE TO MAKE SPACE BEAUTIFUL, TO MAKE THOSE COMMUNITIES PROUD OF WHO THEY ARE.

THE QUESTION IS HOW CAN WE WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE PLACES BECOME MORE BEAUTIFUL.

AND INSTEAD OF THIS IDEA OF PLACE-MAKING, HOW ABOUT PLACE-KEEPING?

WHAT CAN WE DO TO UTILIZE THE ART NOT ONLY TO BRING ECONOMIC AND BEAUTIFYING AND MAKING A SPACE PEOPLE FEEL PROUD OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT ALSO BRINGING THAT BALANCE, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER.

I THINK IT CAN BE A PLACE WHERE CONVERSATIONS HAVE TO START HAPPENING, WHERE DEVELOPERS ACTUALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT WHO'S THERE AND HOW CAN WE ACTUALLY MAKE BALANCE.

THERE'S SUCH A DISPARITY BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THE LITTLE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE SO MUCH MONEY ALL THE TIME OUT OF, LIKE, LUXURY APARTMENT BUILDINGS AND DISPLACING PEOPLE, THAT I THINK THAT THERE'S A NEED TO BE ABLE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE ALL HAVE TO BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION AND THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO TO LIVE TOGETHER IN THIS PLACE.

AND I THINK ART CAN DO THAT AND HELP DO THAT.

BUT I HATE THIS FACT THAT IT SEEMS TO BE HAPPENING MORE AND MORE, AND I THINK AS ARTISTS WE HAVE TO BECOME MORE AWARE OF THIS NEED AND HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS AND ALSO BRINGING ITO THE TABLE WHEN WE'RE WORKING WITH PEOPLE.

>> Crossley: I THINK THAT'S THE POINT, MARQUIS, THAT BOTH SYLVIA AND ROB ARE MAKING THAT IT HAS TO BE A PUBLIC CONVERSATION NOW, WOULD YOU AGREE?

>> YEAH, 100%, AND I THINK WITHIN THAT PROCESS, TOO, THERE'S A WAY TO EDUCATE AND TO PUT INTO PRACTICE A WAY TO PROTECT THE ARTIST AND THE COMMUNITY, LIKE WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT, AND WHAT IS IN THIS CONTRACT, THE ASK FOR THE PRODUCTION.

YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE IN THIS SPACE AND THERE'S THIS BIG DEVELOPMENT COMPANY, HOW ABOUT X AMOUNT OF DOLLARS IS GOING BACK TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE HOUSING IN THAT SPACE.

LIKE, THERE'S MORE STRATEGY AND MORE KIND OF, I DON'T KNOW, GRASSROOTS ORGANIZING THAT GOES INTO EVEN WHAT APPEARS TO BE A SIMPLE THING LIKE PUTTING A MURAL ON A BUILDING.

THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT I THINK WE CAN DO FROM A COMMUNITY PERSPECTIVE TO EDUCATE AND TO ORGANIZE A MORE EFFECTIVE WAY TO PROTECT THOSE SPACES, TO KEEP THOSE SPACES FOR THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE FOR.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

I WANT TO END GOING UP.

WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO WORK ON A PIECE?

WE JUST HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT THERE IN THE CONVERSATION, BUT WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO BE UP THERE DOING THAT WORK?

>> YOU'VE ASKED A LARGE AND AMAZING QUESTION.

>> Crossley: WELL, YOU HAVE A LOT OF TIME.

>> SO IN THE SPIRIT OF HIP-HOP, IT'S HELPED ME BECOME A VISUAL VENTRILOQUIST.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PROJECT MY VOICE, CONVERSATIONS THAT I HAVE, AND TRANSLATE THOSE INTO PIECES WHERE THERE'S A SENSE OF PRIDE AND LEGACY THAT I'M CONTRIBUTING TOWARDS.

>> Crossley: ALL RIGHT, SYLVIA.

>> IT'S REALLY ALLOWING ME TO GIVE VOICE TO THOSE WHO -- RAISING A VOICE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN VERY MUTED.

>> Crossley: AND MARQUIS, TELL ME WHAT THE RESPONSE IS WHEN YOU'RE WORKING WITH THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE AND THEY SEE THEMSELVES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES ON THESE WALLS.

>> YEAH, THEY GET TO EXPRESS THEIR HUMANITY AND EXPERIENCE IN A WAY THAT -- >> Crossley: OR FEELINGS.

NO PHILOSOPHY, JUST -- (LAUGHTER) THAT'S HARD.

>> Crossley: YOU CAN DO IT.

NO, NO, I'M JUST PLAYING.

IT'S PRIDE AND A SENSE OF CONNECTIVITY WITH THEIR PEERS THAT CREATES COMMUNITY AND CREATES SECURITY.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE THAT, YOU CAN SEE IT, YOU CAN FEEL IT, A SENSE OF EMPOWERMENT, AND THAT EMPOWERMENT EQUALS SECURITY AND A FOUNDATION ON WHICH TO ENHANCE YOURSELF AND THE COMMUNITY AROUND YOU.

>> Crossley: WELL, THERE YOU GO.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.

WELL, THANK YOU.

THAT'S THE END OF OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AND STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORM, YouTube AND Facebook.

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