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- What's next for MATA and public transportation in Memphis, tonight on Behind the Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by Gary Rosenfeld, CEO of MATA.

Thanks for being here.

- Thank you for having me here.

- Bacarra Mauldin is Chief of Staff of MATA.

Thanks for being here.

- Thank you for having me.

- Along with Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

We'll talk a bunch about where you guys are going with the long-term vision and the short-term vision for changing transit.

There's a bunch of service changes that we'll talk about.

We'll talk about the impact of federal spending right now.

The federal government's spending a lot of money.

A big infrastructure bill was passed.

I'm gonna guess that some of that came to you, but I want to ask a question, at the top, which may seem a little odd, and I've asked a lot of people this in the last year.

Things that changed for MATA during COVID, that you will keep going forward, and, you know, knock on wood, we get past COVID, that things, you know, no one wanted COVID.

But it is always interesting to me.

Organizations, individuals, who recognize things, change things, and realize, "You know, we probably should always do it that way."

And I'll start with you, Gary.

And I'm curious, a thing or things that you'll keep in place, that you learned unexpectedly in COVID.

- Thanks, Eric, for that.

There are a whole list of things that we will adopt as a future regular operating practice at MATA.

First is enhanced cleaning of the buses to ensure that we're providing a safe environment for our employees and for our customers.

Because you have to be forward-thinking.

This isn't going to be the last virus that we need to be concerned about.

So we want to set those things in place.

We've began enhanced services, our on-memand services, which shift from a traditional fixed route bus, where people might be exposed to 10 or 15, or as many as 50 people at a time, to a shared ride concept where there might be with one or two other people on board a much smaller vehicle.

And they go directly to their destination.

- And I want to talk a bunch more- - Yeah.

- But I don't mean to interrupt you.

- We'll get to that.

- I want to talk a bunch more with that.

- Sure.

- But any other of the COVID-related kind of driving things.

- We are also moving towards cashless operations, so passengers will be able to use cashless technologies to pay for their fares.

We started with our GO901 app, which was introduced this year.

And then just after the beginning of next year, we will introduce TAP cards and other technologies that will reduce or eliminate cash on board the buses.

Cash naturally is very dirty.

It's expensive to manage.

So we are introducing this new technology, and that too reduces the number of interactions between the bus operator and the passengers, so that, again, it's an effort to keep people safe.

- Yeah, Bacarra, you came to Memphis in July as Chief of Staff.

You worked in public transit in Savannah.

For you, so it's a little bit of a different question, but again, things, before I go to Bill, things that you recognize that, you know, "We did this during COVID, because of COVID.

We want to keep doing it."

- I think the way we engage the public, we've started offering more virtual options for engaging the public for our public meetings.

And I believe that that's something that's gonna continue to stick around, that we'll begin to explore new and more innovative ways through our public meeting process to engage them without them having to physically be present in our office or auditorium or onsite.

We'll still be doing things in the community, but we'll probably continue to balance that with virtual options.

- Yeah, yeah, let me bring in Bill.

- So let's talk about the on-demand service.

You have it in several areas of the city on a trial or pilot basis.

And this is something that I think you've targeted areas where the ridership has not been that high.

And you've looked at this as a possible alternative to that.

How is the trial period going?

- Bill, it's going great.

It's going better than we could've ever imagined in the Zone 1.

The other zones are performing well, but nowhere near what we're seeing the growth in Zone 1.

- Zone 1 is where?

- I'm sorry, that's the Whitehaven, Boxtown, Westwood area.

And these alternative transportation projects were called for in the Transit Vision, which is our short-range transit plan, which was introduced, I believe, in 2017, 2018, adopted by the MATA board and recognized as part of the Memphis 3.0 Comprehensive Land Use Plan.

So we have seen ridership, I believe this morning's numbers were about 19,000 boardings on the Zone 1 on-demand program, since the program started in August of this year.

So, you know, four or five months, we've got 19,000 boardings, where the route that it replaced was only seeing about 700 boardings a month.

- So, I'm sorry to get in the weeds, but for people not as close to this, and I'll go back to you, Bill, if I take advantage of this service, walk me through.

I mean, am I getting on a giant bus?

Am I getting in a car?

- Sure- - Am I using my phone?

Am I calling?

- Yeah, all of the above.

- Okay.

- You'll be able, you can book a ride using an app.

You can call in and request service.

You can go on our website, and request it.

So there's a whole range of opportunities for people to use whatever technology they're comfortable with, to be able to request service.

A van will come pick you up.

The van seats anywhere from eight walk-ons and two wheelchair stations, for a total.

But typically, you're sharing the ride with one or two other people.

And we come and pick you up within 20 minutes of your call.

That's our goal.

Sometimes it's a little longer, because we are experiencing such success with it, but we come pick you up.

We take you anywhere within that zone directly, and drop you off.

And then you call us back, and we come get you, and take you back to your original location.

If you want to go someplace outside of the zone, the van will take you to a transfer point, where you have complete ability to connect with the entire fixed route network.

So it's on-demand or shared ride.

We all know the names of the companies that are out there that do shared ride services, but it's for bus fare.

Today, right now, through the introductory period, it's free, but it will become a regular bus fare to pay, to- - Which is about how much?

- Right now, with the COVID pricing that's in place, it's a dollar per trip, so- - Pre-COVID, it was- - $1.75.

- Okay, I'll go back to Bill.

- And you've both done presentations to the Shelby County Commission and the Memphis City Council about this in I think the past two weeks, on this and other points.

What you get hit with, though, is concerns about cutting the fixed route service, the traditional bus stops and the buses coming to that stop, and riders being there.

Is this a difficult transition to make, given what people associate MATA with?

- For some folks, change is very difficult.

There's no getting around it, but when we see the explosive growth of the service, once people get on and use it, and enjoy the benefits of being able to schedule their lives around their appointments, rather than our bus network, now all of the sudden, it really enhances somebody's opportunities and really enhances somebody's quality of life.

As we went through the service redesign in November of this year, all but three bus stops on one of the lines were absorbed by the other buses in the neighborhoods.

So there's three bus stops that no longer are serviced.

And as we go back and look at public input and public comment, part of the problem identified by the public within the community is long walks to bus stops, lack of sidewalks, and also there were reports of people being concerned about animals that are roaming around and providing an unsafe environment.

The on-demand service solves all of that, because now you don't have to walk to the bus stop.

You don't have to be concerned about what's going on.

The bus comes to your curb, picks you up and takes you where you want to go.

So it's really an opportunity to enjoy some of the simple benefits that we all enjoy by driving a car, without having to own a car.

And we go when you want to, and you come back when you want to.

- So, is this the answer?

Is this going to replace traditional bus service everywhere in the city?

- No, the Transit Vision is very specific.

On routes that are high-frequency and high utilization, those routes will continue.

That's part of the bus network that gets people around.

The alternative transportation projects include circulator services within communities, and these on-demand different projects, that we've got now four of them in our community.

So it will be a blend of both.

It is a model that is being adopted by transit properties across the country, as we all come to grips with the realities of post-pandemic.

And also in the past, we've all been looking for alternatives because of shrinking funding, because of efficiency needs, because of a, there's a nationwide shortage, actually it's a international shortage of commercial bus drivers.

I've talked to, I've been on panels from Europe and other places.

Everybody's suffering from a shortage of bus operators.

And so if we reduce the overall dependence on commercial-size vehicles, the larger buses, and are able to better serve the public with the smaller, door-to-door services, it's a win-win for both, for all, to everybody involved.

- Bacarra, coming here from other public transit operations, how is Memphis different from other cities, other cities of similar size, I should say, that are this spread out?

- Honestly, I found that the amount of money that has been invested per rider is a little bit less than some of the other similarly sized systems that we've seen.

We've noticed for instance that in New Orleans, they invest an average of $300 per resident, based on the population.

You've got Louisville, that invests about $100, right on par with Memphis.

But Memphis has a much larger pool of transit riders that are eligible for the service.

And so that's one of the differences.

And also Memphis does not have dedicated funding.

One of very few systems in the country that just doesn't have that dedicated source of funding.

And that's something that we really, really need here, so that we- - Examples of dedicated funding, for people who don't... - For instance, some type of tax-based funding, something that would be there year after year, whereas right now we have to go before our funding partners and basically advocate for the amount of funding that they invest.

- Is that where, like cities that do, X cents is added to- - Correct.

- The basic property tax rate, and that is the debt that goes, whatever it is, that goes over to you guys.

- Correct, for instance, I came from Georgia.

Georgia had a program called the SPLOST program, which is the Single Purpose Local Option Sales Tax.

And that's when a certain percentage of a penny, for instance, goes towards transportation and transportation projects.

And so something similar to that, I believe would work very well here.

And I think we're at the very beginning of having a lot of people, a lot of stakeholders talking about wanting to do that, because we all want to see the system grow into a world-class transit system, but it's really going to take a higher level of investment in order to do that.

- Gary, you've been here for about six years, and we've had the discussion before about a dedicated source of funding.

It's a tough sell here, isn't it?

- It is a tough sell, Bill.

However, like Bacarra mentioned, the chatter, if you will, within the community over the last couple of months has been very positive.

It's exciting to be a part of it, as we present the options to our stakeholders.

The real need for the dedicated funding is so that the organization can plan properly for the future.

Right now, when we, for example, go participate in a grant opportunity with the federal government, for example, typically it's done on an 80/20 basis.

The federal government will provide 80% of the funds.

You have to have 20% local match.

Right now in our case, ten percent would come from, say, the City of Memphis, and 10% would come from the State of Tennessee, making up the 20.

However, we're competing with organizations that do have a dedicated funding source.

They're able to buy down the federal participation at a greater level.

So even though the minimum requirements are 80/20, if somebody walks in the door and offers the Feds 50/50, the Feds want to spread that money out as far as they can.

So they're going to be able to drive the award cycle.

And that becomes very attractive to stakeholders like the FTA.

What it also allows us to do if we have a dedicated funding source is bond ourselves, so that we can do capital projects that need to be done, with a timeframe greater than one year.

So everything that we do with our partners now, the city, and to a lesser extent, the county, everything is a very short timeframe.

Well, most of our projects, capital projects take much longer than that to bring to fruition.

But also, we can't plan properly for things like, oh, if we want to add a lot of service, because we see an increase in funding, we can't plot it properly to be able to ramp up the ancillary services that need to be done in the background, that cost millions of dollars, because there's no funding mechanism for it until that particular moment.

- Let me stay with funding for a second.

A dedicated funding source, what kind of dollars?

I mean, you wave a magic wand, how much would that total per year?

- Well, Eric, it depends on how you structure it, because I think that if we move along the lines that we want to bring all things mobility into this package, to be able to provide the community with all the things it needs to ensure quality mobility, not just bus, but on-demand and bike share, and all the different pieces, parts that go into that, plus be able to support the infrastructure, to be able to deliver the services, you might move a portion of road repair to this funding source.

You might move a portion of police service to provide a safer environment along high-frequency transit routes.

You might bring on even additional fire services for enhanced response for any type of mishap that might happen.

So depending on how you structure it would drive what you're looking for.

But for us- - Yeah, what you need in round numbers.

- For us, I would like to see the transit budget move quickly at MATA to $100 million, operating on an annual basis.

- Right, from where it is, where is it now?

- Today it's in the $70 million range.

- So, $30 million more.

- Thirty million dollars, which is exactly what the Transit Vision called for.

And that plan hasn't really changed much.

There's gonna be some fluctuations in costs, because as we deal with the driver shortage, for example, there's going to have to be a re-definition of what benefits look like and different things of that nature.

But those are things that can be planned on, if you have the dedicated funding sources.

- I'm gonna come back to the on-demand, because it is really remarkable, nineteen thousand rides in a five-month period.

How many vehicles does that entail?

- Six.

- Six vehicles, just six vehicles.

And is it cost-effective relative to, I mean, how do you measure the cost effectiveness of that?

So you got 19,000 rides at a dollar each.

Well, they're free now, but if that were a dollar each at $19,000, I mean, how, but I'm not trying to say that it's supposed to pay for itself.

I don't think there's any mass transit system in the country that pays for itself, based on the toll- - No.

- Or the fare, right?

So, but how do you measure the cost effectiveness of this on-demand service relative to fixed routes?

- That's a great question.

What it is, it's dependent on where you set your standards at.

So, if you're setting up goals and objectives for the organization to keep a trip cost within a range, and you're able to keep those costs in that range, then you're successful.

But where you set that range is out there.

So we look at the program costs as a total cost.

And then we look at a per rider, what's called a rider subsidy.

So if the rider is paying a dollar for the trip, there might be a subsidy of $8 or $9 to provide that service, which, the same thing goes for driving a car and road subsidies.

If you look at road subsidies for every dollar you spend driving your car, there's $9 in public subsidy.

At least there was $9 in public subsidy 3 years ago.

I'm sure that number has gone up too, but $9 in public subsidy to provide the roads.

And that's the part that the public doesn't always understand is that they are consuming a huge subsidy, and people that don't have access to cars aren't getting.

- Well, the massive infrastructure bill, it is all borrowing.

It doesn't pay for itself, and much, not all of that infrastructure goes to roads, ridges, and highways, and so on and so forth.

I want to, so with you Bacarra, fully acknowledging that your boss is sitting next to you, but you're still new.

And it's always interesting talking to somebody who is new to an organization and new to a city.

What does MATA do really well, and what are, we'll call it, what are areas of improvement that you saw, I mean, before you took the job, and since you've taken the job?

- MATA actually is on the front end of technology.

And I think that MATA does a really, really good job of looking into all the innovations that can be incorporated to really enhance the rider experience.

And to be honest, what MATA has not done well is tell people about that.

And it's not just a MATA issue.

I've seen this all across the country, through my work with The American Public Transportation Association.

Unfortunately, sometimes public transportation is defined by the people that have issues with it.

And I think that you will begin to see over the next few months, that MATA is about to start telling its story, and talking about the things that we're doing, the innovations that we're bringing on board.

And I think that's the greatest opportunity area that we have.

- I'm gonna bring Bill back in.

- And in terms of communicating with the public, is there room for more improvement in telling people about these trial programs?

- Absolutely, and you will begin to see, we are engaging, starting in January, with an aggressive community engagement and communications campaign, to do just that, to talk about the next generation fare payment system that's coming online, to talk about the CAD/AVL system and what that means for the everyday- - CAD/AVL, I don't know that.

- Yes, that's the system that basically tells you where the bus is going to be- - Oh, I do know- - When it's coming.

- What it means, okay, yeah.

- Right, so and I'm just breaking it down into layman's terms, so that, what does that mean for the everyday rider?

What does that mean for the two of us, if we want to go out to a bus stop?

How does that enhance our ride?

And ultimately that's what we're trying to do at MATA, is to enhance the customer experience.

And so we are providing more opportunities to get customer input, listening to their needs, listening to their desires, and balancing that with the trends that are in the industry, and the limitations that we have, because of both budget and workforce issues.

- Is MATA going to be involved in the Mobility Center, the project that is going to be a parking garage with facilities for bike share and other ride share services Downtown, between the Orpheum and the end of the Main Street Mall.

- Certainly, when that facility comes online, there'll be adjustments to ensure that bus service, and I believe there's a new trolley stop as part of that construction project as well, or a remodeled trolley stop.

So most definitely we'll be involved in that.

However, we would prefer to see people not drive their cars anywhere and just take the bus.

But recognizing that that's a longstanding habit in Memphis, and we'd have a long way to go to convince people to give up their cars.

But I think it's a great opportunity to showcase and have people see the bus come.

You know, if you have several thousand cars in one place, and that number of people walking by and seeing buses come by on a regular basis, it's subliminal messaging that gets to people.

And then they'll be able to take advantage of those things as they see the technology gains.

One of the things the CAD/AVL system addresses is the apprehension that people have, "Is the bus coming?"

If they can look at their phone and see, the bus is a block away, and it's moving in real time on the map, and they can see that it's coming, now all that fear goes away.

They know that they can catch the bus.

They know that they'll be able to complete their trip.

They'll have all that information as compared to trying to ferret it out through reading schedules and such.

- Just two minutes left.

So I'm gonna kind of rush real quick through a bunch of questions.

If you don't have a phone, how do you take advantage of this new system, in terms of knowing where the buses are?

- There will be a series of kiosks- - It's not your fault they need phones, but- - Right, right, kiosks and signs will be incorporated into our transit centers and major routes where the sign will say that the bus is coming in three minutes or something to that effect.

So lots of that technology.

- You mentioned trolleys.

State of, the Downtown Main Street Trolley has been running for a while now.

What's the state of finishing out the loop, getting the loop going again?

We recently purchased three more trolley cars that need to be refurbished.

That process is going on.

We are also doing infrastructure upgrades.

We'll be testing a modern streetcar on the Madison Line here in the next few months.

You'll see that out and about, with all of us walking around, wearing our safety clothes, 'cause it'll be at walking speed for quite some time.

- Good.

- But yes, those projects are still out there, but also funding related.

- Did you get money from the federal infrastructure bill, directly or indirectly, or is that, remain to be seen?

- We will, there is no doubt that there's infrastructure dollars there.

We understand that some of the formula funds will increase, but a lot of the infrastructure projects are still going to be competitive grant projects.

So we have to be on our game in terms of presenting those to it.

- And then the Innovation Corridor, which is gonna be bus rapid transit, where, you know, buses arriving in key areas every 10 minutes.

It's a lot of linking Downtown to East Memphis, but also better links north and south, the state of that.

And again, we can do a whole show on this, but in 30 seconds.

- All right, we'd love to do that.

The project is on schedule, and we should start seeing construction on the various different stops in 2022, with completion in 2024.

The 30 bus stops need to be constructed.

- Okay, thank you both for being here.

Welcome to Memphis.

And we'll have you back on and talk more about these things.

Thank you, Bill.

And thank you for joining us.

If you missed any of the show today, you can get the full show online at wkno.org, or you can search for the show on YouTube.

You can also get the podcasts of the show on the Daily Memphian site, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks, and we'll see you next week.

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